Building immersive worlds with the biggest global pop stars - Rahul Bhatt

Summary

Mindful Creative Podcast: Building Immersive Worlds with the Biggest Global Pop Stars - Rahul Bhatt

Hosted by Radim Malinic | Released on December 30, 2024

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Introduction to the Podcast and Guest

In this episode of Mindful Creative with Radim Malinic, host Radim Malinic delves into the intricate world of creative careers within the music industry. The guest for this episode is Rahul Bhatt, a seasoned multimedia creative director based in Los Angeles and London. With over a decade of experience, Rahul has collaborated with global pop icons such as One Direction, John Baptiste, Coldplay, and Camila Cabello, as well as renowned TV shows like The X Factor and Got Talent.

Radim Malinic sets the stage by highlighting the essence of the podcast: understanding the highs and lows of creative lives through candid conversations with industry leaders. He introduces Rahul as someone who has navigated the multifaceted roles within major music labels, emphasizing Rahul's expertise in building visual worlds for top-tier artists.

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Rahul Bhatt's Early Life and Entry into the Music Industry

Rahul Bhatt shares his unique journey, beginning with his early exposure to photography and videography. Born in Tanzania and raised in the UK from the age of eight, Rahul's passion for the media side of the music industry was ignited during his high school years.

Rahul Bhatt [04:36]: "I was going with my dad to record people's weddings, and that was fun. Then I got introduced to the world of music videos, like Lady Gaga's 'Bad Romance,' and I was like, 'Oh, my God, imagine working in that environment.'"

Rahul studied media in college, which further solidified his interest in the business and creative aspects of music. His initial foray into the industry was through internships, starting with Def Jam Records, where he gained invaluable insights into digital marketing and content creation.

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Evolution of the Music Industry and Content Creation

The conversation shifts to the dramatic transformation of the music industry over the past decade. Radim and Rahul discuss how content creation has evolved from simple album covers and posters to comprehensive digital and social media strategies.

Rahul Bhatt [10:09]: "Artists are building worlds on social media, building worlds around the album. It's not just about photography or video anymore; it's about creating an entire ecosystem online."

Rahul highlights the shift towards immersive digital experiences, where artists engage with fans across multiple platforms like Instagram, TikTok, and Discord. This fragmentation requires creatives to develop versatile content tailored to each platform's unique audience and technical specifications.

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Working with High-Profile Artists and Building Immersive Worlds

Delving deeper into his professional experience, Rahul discusses his role in shaping the visual identities of major pop stars. From One Direction to Camila Cabello, his work involves creating trailers, social teasers, and comprehensive content campaigns that align with each artist's brand.

Rahul Bhatt [11:27]: "I like to fully immerse myself within the world-building aspect. It's about creating a cohesive narrative that extends beyond the music itself."

Working closely with industry giants like Simon Cowell at Psycho Records, Rahul emphasizes the importance of understanding and executing an artist's vision without letting personal ego interfere.

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Managing Stress and Mental Health in Creative Roles

A significant portion of the episode addresses the challenges of maintaining mental health amidst the high-pressure environment of the music industry. Rahul shares his strategies for handling stress, emphasizing the importance of compartmentalization and adaptability.

Rahul Bhatt [27:31]: "I try not to let stress affect me as much. When you're juggling multiple projects, it's about moving from one to the next without dwelling too much on the past."

Radim and Rahul explore how the constant demand for creativity and the relentless pace of the industry can be overwhelming. Rahul advocates for mindfulness and gratitude as tools to navigate these pressures, ensuring sustained productivity and personal well-being.

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Creative Expression vs. Business Needs

Balancing creative freedom with business requirements is a recurring theme. Rahul discusses how working in the business side of music necessitates a commitment to deadlines and strategic compromises, all while striving to maintain creative integrity.

Rahul Bhatt [26:03]: "You have to let go of the ego. You're there to help create an artist's vision, not overshadow it."

This delicate balance requires Rahul to adapt his creative processes to serve each artist's unique brand, often leading to a symbiotic relationship where both the artist's and his creative goals are met.

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Balancing Freelance Work and Personal Growth

The episode also touches upon the freelance nature of Rahul's career. Freelancing offers flexibility but comes with its own set of challenges, such as over-delivering to secure future opportunities and managing multiple projects simultaneously.

Rahul Bhatt [44:52]: "I always try to learn something new, whether it's the latest editing trick or understanding a new digital trend. It's all about personal and professional growth."

Rahul emphasizes the importance of continuous learning and adaptability in staying relevant in a rapidly evolving industry. He also acknowledges the difficulty of saying no to high-profile projects but underscores the necessity of finding the right balance to prevent burnout.

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Future Aspirations and Career Development

Looking ahead, Rahul expresses a desire to further develop his signature style while continuing to play a pivotal role in the music industry's content creation landscape. He aims to refine his artistic identity without compromising the collaborative essence of his projects.

Rahul Bhatt [48:08]: "I want to hone my signature style while continuing to work in the business. It's about finding that balance and seeing where it takes me."

Rahul remains open to exploring new genres and technologies, including artificial intelligence, to enhance his creative toolkit. His commitment to evolving alongside the industry ensures that he remains a sought-after creative director in the years to come.

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Key Takeaways and Insights

• Versatility is Crucial: In today's fragmented digital landscape, creatives must tailor content to diverse platforms, requiring a broad skill set and adaptability.

• Balancing Creativity and Business: Success in the music industry hinges on the ability to merge creative vision with strategic business practices, often necessitating compromises without sacrificing artistic integrity.

• Mental Health Matters: Sustaining mental well-being is essential for long-term success. Techniques like mindfulness, gratitude, and compartmentalization can help manage stress effectively.

• Continuous Learning: Staying updated with the latest technologies and trends is vital for maintaining relevance and fostering personal growth in a competitive field.

• Building Relationships: Over-delivering and maintaining professional relationships can lead to sustained opportunities and career advancement.

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Notable Quotes

• Rahul Bhatt [04:36]: "I was going with my dad to record people's weddings... Then I got introduced to the world of music videos, like Lady Gaga's 'Bad Romance,' and I was like, 'Oh, my God, imagine working in that environment.'"

• Rahul Bhatt [10:09]: "Artists are building worlds on social media, building worlds around the album. It's not just about photography or video anymore; it's about creating an entire ecosystem online."

• Rahul Bhatt [26:03]: "You have to let go of the ego. You're there to help create an artist's vision, not overshadow it."

• Rahul Bhatt [44:52]: "I always try to learn something new, whether it's the latest editing trick or understanding a new digital trend. It's all about personal and professional growth."

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Conclusion

In this enlightening conversation, Rahul Bhatt offers a profound look into the dynamic interplay between creativity and business within the music industry. His journey from managing wedding videos as a teenager to directing immersive content for global pop stars underscores the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and mental resilience. Radim Malinic effectively captures the essence of Rahul's experiences, providing listeners with valuable insights into navigating a successful and fulfilling creative career.

For aspiring creatives looking to make their mark in the music industry, Rahul's story serves as both an inspiration and a practical guide on balancing artistic passion with professional demands.

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Note: This summary excludes advertising segments and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussions between Radim Malinic and Rahul Bhatt.

Transcript

[Radim Malinic]

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[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, going into that was like, I wouldn't say stressful. It was definitely a learning curve. You have to manage the politics within the companies and like how what you say you have to be careful. So I think for me it was difficult but I love a challenge. I will pursue whatever it is that I want to do and I'll keep going.

[Radim Malinic]

Welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Radim Malinic and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me. In this season, inspired by my book of the same title, I am talking to some of the most celebrated figures in the creative industry. In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles. How they learn to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career. Thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready? Today's guest is a multimedia creative director based in LA and London who works in the entertainment industry. He creates visual content, photography and video. He develops and produces 360 digital and content campaigns for chart topping artists. Born in Tanzania and raised in the uk, he discusses his evolution through various roles at major music labels, his approach to creative work and his experiences in building visual worlds for artists like One Direction, John Baptiste, Coldplay and Camille Cabello, as well as TV shows like the X Factor and Got Talented. We also talk about a positive influence of his former mentor, Simon Cowell. It's my pleasure to introduce Rahul Bhatt. Hey Rahul, it's nice to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

[Rahul Bhatt]

Hello Radim. It's been a while. I think like 10 years or something, right?

[Radim Malinic]

Yeah. We haven't spoken for a very long time and you've been on my radar as one of the guests I wanted to bring on the show. Because our paths. Yes. Crossed back in London. Now you're in sunny LA doing amazing things and. Yeah, I thought it was a great way to catch up.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah. Thank you for having me. I was looking at the lineup of who you've had previously, and I do get, like, imposter syndrome all the time. And I was like, why does Reddin want me on the podcast? So an honor. Thank you for having me.

[Radim Malinic]

Oh, thank you. Because everyone's got their own place. They know they deserve to have. So for those who have may not heard of you, how would you introduce yourself?

[Rahul Bhatt]

Okay, so my name is Rahul Bhatt. I'm a multidisciplinary creative in the music industry, specializing in photography, video directing, design. Basically, whatever the artist's needs are, I'm there for them. Yeah, and that's pretty much it. I've been in the industry for over 10 years now, starting with Def Jam Records way back in the day, and then moving to Psycho, which is Simon Carl's record label. Working with pretty amazing artists over there, One Direction, little Mixture of Harmony. I'm now in la, work with Coldplay and people like that. And Camille Cabello is my main kind of artist I work with regularly. Yeah, that's me.

[Radim Malinic]

Fantastic journey. And unpicked on a few different strands. Because I want to find out, what was your drive getting into music industry? Were you a kid that wanted to be a musician or did you like the media side of things? Because I know you studied media, so how did you get into music?

[Rahul Bhatt]

For me, it was always the media aspect of it. The videos and the photography. Like, when I was in high school, in college, I did, like, wedding videos for people, and that was my first exposure. You know, I'd be going with my dad to record people's weddings, and that was fun. But I read your book and you said the first chapter is like, you've been stressed. And that was basically me at 15 doing these wedding videos and stuff. So, yeah, I did that. And then, like, I did media studies in college and I got introduced to the world of, like, music, music videos. And I think I remember seeing. I think it was Lady Gaga's Bad Romance. And I was like, oh, my God, imagine working in that environment and, like, being with these artists and stuff like that. So I kind of knew from them that that's what I wanted to do. Not necessarily the music production element, but, like the business behind the music. Yeah. And that's what I always found fascinating. And I did start off in the business aspect of it, doing digital marketing, pr and then slowly moving towards the creative aspect. Photography and stuff like that. Yeah.

[Radim Malinic]

How does a 15 year old do a wedding video? Because that's a headache for a grown up.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, it was stressful. I'd be helping my dad, I'd be editing the videos. And at first I was always like intrigued by new technology. So I would always try and incorporate whatever the new trend works. I think we were using DV cams and then moved to dslr. So I was like, okay, I want to be like the first people in my small town to use DSLR for videos and stuff like that. So that always, always kept me going, whatever the new tech was then. But yeah, just sage. It was stressful. It's an understatement. It was like if something wasn't delivered in time was the biggest deal. And looking back, it's only a wedding video. Relax.

[Radim Malinic]

I think there's something really weird about people's weddings and like their expectations because I think it was comedian at Burn who said when he was going through the wedding planning and stuff, people said, this is gonna be the happiest day of your life. And he said, surely if it's the happiest day of my life, I'm gonna let shit slide like nothing matters. Whereas it's the opposite.

[Rahul Bhatt]

But I get it, I get it. It's the biggest day for someone. You don't want anything to go not put into life. So I get it. Yeah, I mean, it was fun. Don't get me wrong, we had some great times and saw some great weddings. So I've been to a lot of weddings, but yeah, that was the past. That's where it all started. And my family's always been into photography. Like my granddad, because I was born in Tanzania, East Africa, so my granddad always had a photo lab there. And then we moved to the UK in 2000 and my dad did wedding videos and stuff and that's where it started. And you know, it's always been in the family.

[Radim Malinic]

All right, how old are you when you moved from Tanzania to uk?

[Rahul Bhatt]

I think I was like eight years old. It was. Yeah, it was stressful.

[Radim Malinic]

It was stressful. Cracking.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah. I just don't know how, you know, my mom did it. Normally I was like, I'm looking back, I was like, moving to a new country with three kids is a lot for anybody. Yeah. So I'm like, looking back, I'm like, damn, mom, you're a hero.

[Radim Malinic]

That's a nice tribute to do because, yeah, I've got two kids before I'm Moving to any other country and it's a handful, but it was a nice link to what you said about Lady Gaga and actually you having that view into more or less the business side of things. Like actually what's behind the scenes. Because we get a lot of people who want to be the person. We get mesmerized by the end product. We go, oh, I want to be a rock star, I want to be a pop star, I want to be a DJ or producer or rapper. And I like that you bypass that because I guess maybe from already knowing how stressful things can be, you aim that. So how did you get to work with Def Jam and then going on to Psycho because to someone be like, wait a minute, so you've been doing wedding videos and you're working for Def Jam next. How does that work?

[Rahul Bhatt]

So I moved to London from university and there I knew then that I always wanted to be in music. So then I needed to make money. So I worked part time at Apple, selling Apple iPhones and doing tech stuff. What do you call the genius part? That's where I was at. I did that. And then that's when I started to apply for like internships, whatever work experience, the record labels. And one of the first companies I got into was Def Jam and that was just a foot in the door. It was like three month or six month work experience. And yeah, that exposed me to like how the industry kind of works. It was like the early days of digital marketing. I was like making banners and stuff like that and using Photoshop to make banners for like Justin Bieber, Frank Ocean and all these people. And you know that I knew how to use Photoshop. So I was like, oh, this is easy, I can do this. That's how I made me decide I want to do more of this.

[Radim Malinic]

What we described, we had a quick pre chat before we started recording about the fact that we come from two different generations of working with music. Because when I was getting into music as a wannabe musician, or would I be a rock star and a musician, the visual side of things was pretty limited. It was like, here's the album cover, potentially some merge which is the album cover and that's it. That may be a poster, like an ad and the paper or in a magazine, there was nothing more beyond this. Whereas now we've just opened this Narnia to content and with what I call the fragmented marketing that as many platforms exist, as many channels, we have as many websites and I can't even put the right word on it, but it's just all fragmented and this is the world where you live and thrive. Because how was that sort of step up from the banners for Justin Bieber all the way to producing content for some of the biggest pop stars and bands in the world?

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, I think to touch on your point earlier, I think right now artists are building worlds on social media, building worlds around the album. So I think there are those people that will still just do photography and deliver that. That's great. But now I think as an artist you have to think beyond the album packaging. Think, think what your social media strategy is. What kind of world are you building online? So I think for me, I like to be part of that. I like to help create those photos or whatever it is and the videos. And then I also like to help build like a world around the artists. So for example, Camila, with her recent album, I helped create the trailers and like the social teasers and stuff like that. So I think, yeah, now more than ever, I think it's just being a creative is just more than the one specific thing. Whether that's photography, video, like directing, even design, you have to get involved in. I think, yeah, I think that's kind of where it's heading and I like that. I don't like to do one thing and be done with it. I like to fully immerse myself within the world building aspect of it. And it sounds so like music industry world building. But you create these worlds and it's beyond just the music. It's how the world shows on social media and yeah, like how it looks and stuff like that. I love doing that. I think that's the way it's heading and I love that.

[Radim Malinic]

I think what's changed in the world of music and I think it was a guy called Steve Reed. I think it was the guy, it was the manager for band called Incubus. And this is going, let's say this quote goes about 15 years ago and he said once upon a time you just have to put a poster up that the band is coming and then just show up and that would be enough. And now you obviously did all of these stream like live streams and webcasts and the conversations and I think we getting, let's say music fans or the music fans are getting so much more value out of everyone because they know so much more about the artist. They almost nothing off limits these days. Which when you think about it for the fan base that's amazing because they've got more access and more touch points, more merge and more just view into the world of a musician than ever before. But how much more demanding it can seem for the artist. Because when I think about my ambitions of, okay, I want to be a rock star, are you thinking you're gonna be just living a great life and you're thinking, nothing's gonna happen, you're gonna be creative? And you're thinking, I'm gonna be creative every single day. I'm gonna do creative work. And then you realize, no, you're gonna create some of the time, you're gonna be working on your business most of your time. Then you have to make sure your mental health is okay. Because when you think not the big artist, they make the album and they tour it for 18 months. That's just a repeat of a repeat. That's not a creative position per se. Because as like those big sets, they're just baked in now. You can't. That's digitally. And there's a given condition where the musicians basically almost lose like the perception of reality. Because you just played the same set all the time, you're thinking, wow, like that is a really hard working job that takes so much out of anyone. So from you being on that side in between, almost, how do you see your role in content and like, how sensitive could it be to actually get the right message from the musician into the world and world building? Like how much thought goes into it? Because the nuances can be crazy, in my opinion.

[Rahul Bhatt]

We'll be back after a quick break.

[Radim Malinic]

If you're enjoying this podcast and would like more support and information on your creative journey, you can pick up one of my books to help you do just that. My titles cover branding, graphic design, illustration all the way to career business advice with ideas how to navigate the highs and lows of the creative process. You can pick up signed paper bags at no extra cost from my [e-mail] and we are shipping worldwide use code podcast for extra 10% off your order and you can find the links in the show notes. Any day should be a new book day.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, that's a good question. I think I'm gonna touch on your point earlier. Doing the album, I think for an artist it's usually fulfilling to make the album and then touring it is almost seeing your work come to life. Doing these music videos is seeing your work come what you had in your head. It's basically putting it out in the real world. That's what excites artists playing these shows and stuff. Yes, it's repetitive. I think seeing how people receive that in the real world, I think it's fulfilling is what I would say. Can't speak for the artists themselves but yeah, I think that's kind of what is exciting for artists and a fan. As you said earlier, like now more than ever, it's not just putting the album out and you're done. It's like giving fans these experiences and things like that. And it's a great time to be a fan because you get, it's not just your artist is just on and then off. It's like basically 24 hour access to the artist which can be a little overwhelming. But yeah, that's the way it is now. And I think fans, artists are getting more and more creative of how they reach the fans. Whether it's like live experiential pop ups and things like that. And that's exciting to me, I think would be exciting for a lot of artists and fans too, obviously.

[Radim Malinic]

Let me take it back by one step because obviously we go from these banners and from Def Jam to Psycho and now it gradually the content grows, grows, grows. Because it seems with every single year, generally with everything like everything gets more intricate, everything gets more exciting, more complicated, more simplified in the same way like we got better tools, you got more powerful technology. But it's sometimes like how do you keep up with the process and progress in your personal journey? When we talk about when we go from wedding videos to banners to being a creative director, content creator, like driving all of these big artists out there in the world with their world building. Let's talk about these steps. Like how do you get from the place one to place 20.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, I think seeing kind of the first insight into the world of music was Def Jam and seeing that world and get seeing your work out there. The first kind of like big world moment and that was with the banners. Seeing it on like the Facebook page of whatever artist it was at the time, it's oh, okay, that's fun, that's exciting. And then as you go gradually you create more stuff that gets out in the world and you're like, oh, this is actually exciting. And then so you pair that with the idea that you can think of something and you can go out and create it. So pair that with being out in the world I think is what gets you to keep going. And it's not about the ego aspect. Oh look, it's on print. It must mean something. It's not that. It's just seeing it out in the world and you helped someone achieve the vision. I think it's more about that than the ego. My work is in print or my work is on Billboard or whatever. I think it's more that side, like you helping someone kind of bring their vision to life. And that's what keeps me pushing more and more. That's the part that I like doing with the music industry. It's your ego, whatever. You have to let it go. You're there for the artist vision. And, you know, you might see something one way and they might see something different one way. You have to meet in the middle slash, execute what their vision is. And I think ego, whatever, you kind of have to let that go. And that's what you have to do, you know, because I work in the business side of music, the social aspect and the creative side. So it's like the fine balance. Let go of the ego. You know, you're there to help create an artist vision. So let that be the aim. That's how you go from seeing your banners to then, okay, I think you've.

[Radim Malinic]

Given me a great few words for a segue to a man that sort of helped you shape your career, which is Simon Cowell, and that's ego. And help someone shape their vision. Because obviously the way he's perceived publicly, obviously it's just Simon Cowell and whatever the opinions people might have, obviously you know him from a totally different side actually working for him and spent. How long did you work for Psycho?

[Rahul Bhatt]

I think he was over 10 years. I think 11 years. Yeah.

[Radim Malinic]

That's a long time. How would you say that when you. For those 10 years, how did you see the industry change and how do you see your ways of working and how do you see the industry change?

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, I think it was so different back then. I started on a project at Saika called you generation. I think that's what you helped brand design or whatever it was. So I think that in itself was an incredible idea. I do think it was ahead of its time, but that's what kind of where I started. So it was already digital tech front heavy. And then. Yeah, then going into X Factor and things like that. It's always, what's the next technology? It was the rise of social media. So it's like using that to promote the shows.

[Radim Malinic]

I think the idea, like the industry almost changed, like from. I would say the industry is more fragmented in the way of micro genres. Because I think 10 years ago it was like, let's create a boy band or girl band. I think that the thing that what comes even as a mainstream now comes across differently because it's More about, as opposed to relying on a genre, relying on a label, it's more after people build their own worlds, as you call it. I think that's the difference.

[Rahul Bhatt]

When we were doing shows like X Factor, it was the three kind of main platforms, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook or whatever it was. And now there's so many options. There's TikTok, there's Discord and music React station had where you can just stream music with your fans. Yeah, I think the tech side of it is very interesting and now that AI is also very interesting. So AI is interesting on all aspects. Design and Photoshop and things like that. So where it started and where it is now, it's like totally different. Never in 10 years ago I would have thought AI would be helping design or AI would be helping whatever it is. So that's the biggest difference in terms of this. Just more platform you have to create content for. What you create for Instagram does not necessarily work for TikTok, so you have to have a whole nother strategy for that, whole nother team for that. So, yeah, it's definitely interesting in my opinion. It's fun. I love TikTok and things like that. But yeah, it's definitely more, way more than when I started 10 years ago. First it was just like Facebook, one post, everywhere is fine. And now it's just, you can't do that. You have to like, really look at who your audience is. Yeah, you have to really look at who's on your ex, Twitter, whatever, who's on your TikTok, who's following you, who's following you on Instagram and really strategize for that.

[Radim Malinic]

Let me talk about your personal journey from where you were 10 years ago or where you worked for 10 years ago until now. You find yourself living in LA. You were born in Tanzania, you grew up in England, worked in London, now you live there. In terms of your personal experience in the industry over the last 10 years of your life through social media, like for Instagram, hey, Rahul's doing really, really well. That's really great to see. But music industry can be perceived like a twisted fairy tale. Sometimes it looks amazing, glitzy, but your experience of building your own career, building your own business, relocating, starting again, how did it go?

[Rahul Bhatt]

For me, my journey in the music industry was very different because I. The first kind of experience I had was Def Jam and that was already the biggest music label at the time. And then going from that to Psycho, which again, another label, TV company. And yeah, going into that was like, I Wouldn't say. First of all, it was definitely a learning curve. You have to manage the politics within the companies and like how what you say, you have to be careful. So I think for me was difficult. But I love a challenge. I will pursue whatever it is that I want to do and I'll keep going. And then same with coming to la, I was like, I want to work on this artist, this artist and like help or be where the magic happens basically in the music world, you know, you go to America. That's where like the big award shows are and the biggest artists are fun and stuff like that. So I think for me it was like, okay, I'm gonna go to America. And then, you know, I did move with Simon's company, Psycho. So working on America's Got Talent and artists here. So it's like Fifth Harmony, Camille. So it was like, yeah, it was getting thrown in with those like, kind of big names. From the beginning it was tough. It was to be careful, you know, understand how the politics work and also navigating how the business works, what a managed artist, management does, what the digital team do, what PR team does. So it's like having to learn that and then coming to LA and then having to learn that again because they're obviously different in both the countries. So, yeah, it was challenging. I love a challenge and yeah, it's been amazing, but it's been like a big learning curve. Big learning curve for sure. And I'm still learning and I learn every day and yeah, that's how I look at it.

[Radim Malinic]

What struck me as quite mature is that when you already observe the industry, like say I had to watch out, what's to say to Herman, like being aware of the politics because from personal perspective you're like, I'm gonna say something and see what comes back. Pushing boundaries and trying to break the rules. But I think obviously I've met you in person and we worked together. I've always impressed how mature you were beyond your years, like you knew how to handle stuff. And I remember being cheeky, trying to extract some secrets about artists. You're like, we were very professional. I was like, oh, cool, this now is going to go far. Because I was just thinking off the cuff, like, what's there to learn? But with your creative stuff, you mentioned your granddad had a photo lab back in Tanzania and that hands on experience of creativity coming to life, taking photos and seeing them come to life, I think could be quite sort of life changing in the life of Herman. So when it comes to actually your Creative expression. Did you have any sort of inspirations? Because mentioned Lady Gaga and obviously you can see a huge stream of pop videos and music coming your way, so get you in the middle of it. But what is that sort of soul expression that we're saying, Rahul, this is my bit. This is what I want to do. This is my part. Because there is a signature to your work. So how did you see it coming to life?

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, I think there's for me personally, this two aspects of this. There's the kind of business side of it, that's the scene, watching the big kind of Lady Gaga video and be like, I want to work behind the scenes, not necessarily creating the music video, but oh, my God, imagine being part of the rollout for that or building the world that Gaga was building at the time around that. So I think for me, when I was younger, looking at that, that's the first inspiration was like, oh, my God, music industry. This is what I want to do. And then as you get into it, you get the. Your nuances, like your artistic style, your photography and stuff like that. And I think this is where you can't let your ego get in the way of your work because most of the time and you have this creative freedom in terms of you have an idea, you can execute it, but then you are building around the artist. It's whatever style they want. You kind of have to adapt to that. And, you know, that's a big part of. I think what I do is adapt to the style. I will do my own, like, personal stuff that. Personal projects that are more like, creative more out there. Whereas, like with the artists and stuff, it's like you're building their vision, so it has to be true to that brand. Yeah, I think. Yeah, that was a weird answer, but I think for me, it's the business side and then the actual creative side. There's two different inspirations, if that makes sense.

[Radim Malinic]

Yeah, it does make sense. I think what you describe it, I think it's almost in a way, artistically selfless because you're talking about other people's vision and other people's ways. Because I think under what ego is mentioned, there's so many different ways to see it is a bravado. What is it? Because I've been trying to decipher it recently. And ego is more of, like, the sense of identity. Who am I? What am I here for? And some people are the ones who want to be the front of the queue, be known for what they do, and almost get all the glory and all the accolades. Whereas the work that you do, you need to make the other person shine but still have creative satisfaction actually by doing the work that's worth doing. Because if you didn't have your sort of creative temptation or creative vision, if you didn't create for your soul, then you'd be in the wrong job. And obviously the bigger the art is, the bigger the layer of politics. The sort of. The bigger the outcome, the bigger the expectation. This is where the stakes are really high. So I want to know that. Obviously I know that you told me that you are big on a C word compromise. Like, you're happy to find a way that works for everyone, but how much pressure that goes into a rollout around an album campaign to world building. Do you. Can you metabolize it by standing on the sidelines and going, I'm fine here, I'm a professional, I can see. Or do you get stress? And does other people's stress rub on you?

[Rahul Bhatt]

First of all, I think how I handle stress is definitely different to how other people think of stress. I'm usually, or at least I look very calm on the outside. I do feel like getting stressed about stuff we can't control. There's literally no point. If something's not rendered or whatever, it's okay, what do you want me to do? There's that and then there's also internal, oh, no, I need to get this done like today or like in the next hour. So I think there's different levels of stress. You know, when we're close to, like, deadlines and stuff, obviously that stress level goes high. And it does mean I'm up late finishing work and stuff like that. So I think different levels of stress for different kind of time periods, different projects. And with me, it's like, not just one project. I'll have like, multiple around the year. So once you're done with one, it's straight onto the next. So you don't even have time to, oh, that was fun. It's like, usually, okay onto the next. And then that's where the kind of. I think that's where the fun is, to be honest with you, is, okay, done with one, let's see what we can do in the next project. And I think probably just everyone handles stress differently. So, yeah, for me, I try and not let it affect me as much, especially in the work I'm doing. Sometimes we'll create stills or whatever it is, and then it has to be delivered like that day. And that's where, as you said, the big C Word comes from the compromise is okay, we don't have time, so what are we going to do to speed up the process and means you're going to have to compromise on something. And to me that's okay. I understand that to certain creatives that might not be okay and that's totally fine. But the way I work is I was always creative, but I always had the business in the back of my head. The music business, it's like, okay, I get that we have to be creative and deliver like an amazing product, but also understand the lines, understand why we need what we need and when we need it. Also knowing that knowing the business side can also be stressful. Oh, I need to get it done. Because if I don't get it done, I know what the implications are. I don't know, it's just being fully like in the artist world business or just the music business. Yeah, it's stressful, but I don't know, I'm still here and I do like it. Seeing different kind of worlds, projects, whatever it is, music come out. It's like a big fulfilling moment.

[Radim Malinic]

Yeah. I think we tell ourselves that in the creative industry we are always the one who potentially have it the worst. We've got a lovely job, but compared to some other people we get more stress because we've got all of these things. When you think about it, like how much it goes into a balanced mental health, not a state of mind for a regular person. And then you put people in the room and say, now go and collaborate and you're going to be a project manager, you're going to do this and you get people's life nuances, life experiences, life stresses, current sort of breakup stories playing up in the open. And I say, you put all of this into a room and someone says, go, you got a creative project and everything needs to go smoothly and quickly. That's near impossible. Like it's, it could be in the music, advertising, branding and all sorts of things, theater. Because not everyone is always the one who works on themselves. Making sure I need to bring my better version of myself to the creative process because it's sometimes easy just to ignore our problems. So what you describe it, obviously I think having that sort of positive effect on the process, even though you might be freaking out in your mind, that's what makes it professional. Because yeah, if you decide for your creative process, think who can help you, what you can do with it. That's especially when the stakes are so high. That's a growth of a long term career because if you haven't thrown in a towel now, I think you'll be all right for a while. Because, yeah, it tells us our stories about other dream jobs being easier or less stressful, but having stressful.

[Rahul Bhatt]

To me, grass is always greener. It feels that way, but you look at what other people are doing and other jobs, and what we're doing is creative and it's fun, so it shouldn't be stressful. Of course it gets stressful, like with deadlines and stuff like that. For me, I always try to remember there's other jobs out there that are, like, way more stressful. And I'm always mindful of that. You know, I'm grateful where I am right now. Even going to a set and holding a camera just for the whole day is something that I could have never imagined. And to be doing that as a job in my mind still, I'm like, wait, what? That's crazy. That's crazy. That. And then I get to go home and edit the photos. What kind of job is that? I think for me, that's how I look at it. If it gets too stressful, you can always find other stuff that you like doing to compensate for that, whether it's doing hobbies, going out, taking photos of, I don't know, flowers or something. That's probably what I'm gonna do at some point. But, yeah, that's how I look at it. I'm always grateful for. For every opportunity I get. Even when things get stressful, I'm like, oh, I don't want to be doing this. It's okay. Relax. Yeah, even holding a camera for a job is crazy. To be creative is insane.

[Radim Malinic]

Let's talk about you holding a camera on set and doing live photos. But let's talk about more sort of practical advice, because it must be daunting, obviously, to do that on a day one.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Obviously.

[Radim Malinic]

Now we've been doing it for quite a while. But what do you do, for example, with the talent? Again, the talent might not be having a great day. Like, how do you direct your set? Have you got your assistant? So, like, how do you do it in a studio setting and in live setting? Because, like, sometimes you can control things. This is the thing that you can control stuff. And in live setting, you can't control much. So how do you go between those two? What's your tips for this?

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, so for me, because I do more than just live photography. I do studio. Sometimes I do behind the scenes. So I have to adapt the way I work in different settings. Some photographers will Only do studio settings. It's different. It's totally different to doing behind the scenes in studios. Of course you'd have your team and it's good to have people that you can trust. Like to the point where if you look at something, something's not right. You look at that person and they also understand what's not right. Team. That could be anything from like Digitech, lighting assistance, whoever. Just regular. Just assistance. I think definitely in the studio element. And like behind the scenes element or live is kind of like always. Yeah. Have your cameras ready. Prepare everything the night before, whatever it is. Just always be ready. And I tend to carry two lenses, like wide and zoom, like 70 to 200. Just so I'm not like, on set, you don't have time. Like when you're on set and doing. You don't have time to switch lens and like, be demure about it. No, no, no. You have to go, go. You should be ready to look at whatever your setting is and decide, oh, the wide will be great or the zoom will be great for this. So you just have to know. Yeah. And I think it's adapt to whatever the scenario is. Be a chameleon. Like, just figure it out. And also, if you're doing like behind the scenes stuff, be mindful of the talent's eye, where the eyeliners. Just imagine yourself, you're like performing and there's people looking at you. That's like the worst feeling. So just imagine how they feel. So I was trying to stay out the eyeline until you're comfortable. Until they're comfortable, whatever. I always try and stay out the eyeline, but sometimes you have to get in and they may tell you they may not, or they may just not give the performance that they would give. So just be mindful of that. Even if you don't do it. Just be mindful. Yeah, I think that's the biggest things. Yeah. And basic housekeeping. Just be organized. Know where everything is in terms of files on your computer and also in terms of your kit. Yeah, I think that's kind of it. And just be nice to everyone on say, you never know who anyone is. That's my biggest thing. Just be nice to everyone. It doesn't hurt the crew out there working. And we're kind of. In addition to. If they did the music video, it's like their world. And we're just coming in and capturing, documenting that. So that's how I see it.

[Radim Malinic]

I will make a link between wedding photography and what you just described being an artist island. Because I once happened to go into Adobe session on wedding photography 15 years ago randomly, and there was literally some guy who won like the wedding award, like best wedding photographer for 15 years. And he was like, look, we do this, this and that. Like, I've got three photographers. I pretend to take photos. I just chat to people, I pretend to take photos. Well, I've got my three assistants taking photos from the sidelines. So those pictures are the most natural because as soon as you point camera at person, we start posing. We don't even want to, but that's what we do.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, that's like how it is with talent. Like working with Simon. He never liked photos like of him just looking to camera. Cause I also used to take photos of Simon and Simon team and the artist he like. When I used to show him photos, he'd always gravitate towards the reportage moments because they're the stuff that you can't replicate or it's nice seeing like the true emotions. One of my favorite photos I've taken and like one of his as well is the photo of Little Mix winning the first ever Brit Award. And I was just there with the camera and I was on the table. I was like, oh, let me just snap this moment. It was literally the reaction as they won. And that was like a very cool photo. Chen to be just be in that moment was crazy. Yeah, yeah.

[Radim Malinic]

It must be hard because we are different. We are different about how we go about things. And some people go down insecurities in a different way. And in the world that you work and you describe in it comes across like they have to be almost on all the time because you never know who sees you, where, what happens. And I did have a Stefan Zagmeister on the show a few weeks ago, and he was talking about the fact that they couldn't even do photo shoots with people like Rolling Stones or Lou Reed or David Bowie because they were just hyper famous. Like it was impossible to take them to the streets or it had to be a studio environment. And yeah, this kind of stuff putting yourself in the mindset of the artist. I don't think if you just really itemize the life of a celebrity or pop star, feel like this is what your life's gonna be. Would they sign up for it? Would they say, actually, yeah, let me do this, Because I think we get in a better understanding of the mental health and the artists coming out in this generation counseling tools because they want to look after themselves. Actually, I think this is a sign of that we growing that we're healing because how many people we've lost just because they got lost in the industry?

[Rahul Bhatt]

I think, yeah, it's. It's important to put your mental health first, and it's good to see artists doing that and they want to take a break or whatever it is. It's kind of like, okay, I think fans definitely understand that for sure.

[Radim Malinic]

So let's talk about your artistic expression, because obviously you're very busy working with people, as you said, like Coldplay and Camila and others. Obviously, as I've labeled you as a selfless creative, you're working for the benefit of others, bond out on their vision. What is it that you do that creatively? I mean, if you even have space for it. That's a caveat. Like, what. What do you do when you're not on.

[Rahul Bhatt]

There's usually no space for that. But I'm actively trying to make like it is still doing photography, but of, like, other things. I did say I want to take pictures of, like, nature and flowers and the ocean and things like that. So I've started to do that. And I think that for me is where it's going. I enjoy that. Appreciating things around you, I think. Yeah, that's what I do to get away from it. He's still holding the camera, so to me, that's like, amazing. So I do that. And then other than that, it's just like the basic, like, cooking, going on hikes, going on walks, going to the gym. I think that's, you know, other ways to kind of keep. Keep going.

[Radim Malinic]

Really taking up the LA lifestyle. Yeah. Of hiking.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Not like that. No. I say hiking. I haven't been on hiking for a while, but it does refreshes the mind. Just going for a walk or whatever it is, or just being outside, seeing the sun.

[Radim Malinic]

There is definitely sense. It sounds like you're still at that phase where working a lot is your reality. But it does change because I'm doing lots of picking of the situation I was in where you would get offered, let's say, a subscription to a magazine, free subscription. I'd be like, I don't have time to read magazines. Like, no. And it was such a wrong choice for me. Like, it was such a wrong choice just to not do that. Because we tell ourselves, like, how much we need to work. We've got existential, let's say, like, it's a survival instinct that needs to be money in the bank, rent needs to be paid, all of that stuff. And then you realize, actually, how could I have Done that a lot faster and spend less of my emotion energy on people who don't necessarily actually wondered how good this could be. Because even though I'm sure in your position, like when you're working on these type pains, I'm rollouts. There's the expectation from the label, there's a expectation from the artist, there's your expectation and everyone's gonna wants to do it as best as possible. But sometimes you need to tell me if you do that yourself. But sometimes we just go way beyond of what's needed because we really want it to be good and we spend so much emotional energy. Yeah. Over delivering.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, that's me. That's me. 13 always do that. If there's one thing needed, I'll give five options because you're afraid to disappoint or, you know, not get the approval you need and stuff like that. So I think it's a tough one because you don't want to disappoint. But also there will be some times where I'm like, this is what I'm going to give and you have to be confident in your work. So I think there will be moments where I'm like, okay, I'm really happy with this. I can submit this as just the one. And going back to your point earlier about having the time to do magazine or whatever it is, I think even for me, when I get that time, I always want to learn things. So I'll be on YouTube learning, I don't know, just the latest editing trick or whatever it is. So to me, is that kind of working still? I don't think so, because I'm learning some people really need to like not look at a computer screen to switch off and that's totally fine. But for me, I'm like, I need to learn more. So if I have downtime, I do watch like films and stuff, but like most of the time I do prefer to be on like YouTube and like learning. It's weird, but that's just, you know how it is. And maybe in the future I'll learn to like completely do something that's not related or not anything to do with work, etc. But for now I think it's just, oh, what can I do to learn what's the next thing? Yeah, that's just our work.

[Radim Malinic]

And yeah, it's an exciting stage though, because in this sort of time and age, we have so many tools and so much information available to us. And obviously I was describing a situation that was just unhealthy for me. Because I was just more on the sort of commercial path, of course, like the times that were not spent working with learning or trying to be. I was trying to prove myself, I can do this, if that makes sense. Like, I need to do more, more, more, more. No one's knocking on the door today. Let's do more, more, more. And it was just like the time is almost enchanting because no one's telling you you can't do it. But I think there would have been a few changes I would love to have made back in the day, like to not break myself too much. But that path of learning, the path of growing, it's amazing because you receive artists like John Mayer, for example, say, like, oh, I still learn. I still watch tutorials. Like John Mayer. He doesn't need to watch tutorials. He's amazing. And others. It's that path of constantly, like, where do I go with this? Because there's no such thing as one and done. Especially in the music industry. You got one good album. Okay, when is the next one coming? What do you mean you just can't do one? No, no, no. You have to do this and do that. Because as we talked at the top of the conversation, like, we've got more access to artists, they give us more. Like there's more produce, there's more ways to almost falling in love with the work and have emotional reaction and because they do something to make us feel like, how do you connect with this stuff? So I think that part I wouldn't. Especially in your ripe age of 31. Yeah. So look, you're still in the right place to, to learn and to give you all. Because you can't be a sprint runner, you can't be a sprinter all your life until you were slowed down. But yeah, I love, I love the fact that there is the energy and then you can see who you can do what you do. You're learning stuff for your clients. Can ask what gives you the edge, especially in such a competitive world.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, I think ultimately it's like I said before, if it's something like picking up a camera and doing that, that's my creative outlet. So that will help me keep going. I do want to learn what's next in that world. It's like social media or whatever the next digital trend is. I want to know what that next thing is. So in terms of personal growth, that for me is personal growth and growth in terms of career, whatever it is that will help me get to the next stage. In terms of personal growth, definitely need to work on taking breaks or whatever it is. Yeah. And I think when I was freelancing, you don't want to say no to any jobs that you get. It's. It's such a hard thing to say no because once you're not available or whatever, there'll always be someone else and then that's it. So I think, yeah, it's a tough one because you have to like find the right balance. But yeah.

[Radim Malinic]

Have you ever said a no to a high profile artist that you regret it afterwards saying no?

[Rahul Bhatt]

The funny thing is probably not. I don't think so. Even if it's like two things in one day, I'm like, okay, I'll make it work. As long as the time don't over that. No, I don't think I have to be honest with you.

[Radim Malinic]

I'm sure if there was something really like career defining.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Oh yeah, exactly. I was like, we'll make it work.

[Radim Malinic]

We'll make it work. I think this is what you mentioned. You mentioned the freelance world because when you're freelancer, I think the joke is almost like freelancer will always pick up the phone like you call a freelancer and they'll always answer because it's such a amazing prospect of working and creating your own business. But it's almost never guaranteed. And there was many conversations on this season and a previous season about like how freelancers are always worried that their job, current job, is their last job. And in a funny way there will always be one of the jobs will be the last job. But it's about have you prepared for something else? Like how do you build that next step? Because I think in a freelance mindset it's just now is now, now is a hundred percent. And I totally understand the over delivering. It just like makes everyone happy even if it doesn't pay exactly as it should be. Because you really want to build meaningful connections. And I can tell you that being correct. I'm trying to work out a Math, let's say 14 years ahead on my career. Everything, every job that I have over delivered that I have worked with people and gave them extras and looked after them and being nice to them, even though that didn't always deserve it. You're banking that energy because it comes back to you in the later stage because you can afford to have more people to help you out. You can have more people, you have more opportunities that grow in a different dimensions. And yeah, I think that part is the freelance part. I think if there was maybe a bit more guarantee in that career Maybe we would have carried ourselves differently at that time. Whereas being almost turned up to 11 every day and juggling and struggling sometimes as a result, sometimes that is the baptism of fire that gives you a long term career.

[Rahul Bhatt]

And I think the goal is to get to a point where if it's say photography or directing or whatever, your work speaks for itself and you don't have to do that. And yeah, that's how most kind of creatives operate. But being in the business is a different aspect. You have to get things delivered, approved, whatever the deadlines and things like that. So I think for me that's different. Whereas the goal is always your work speaks for itself. It's okay. I've built a style, say I have a signature style that people come to me for and I think that's the goal. Working in the business itself is that kind of shift the goal a little bit, especially for me.

[Radim Malinic]

So your world is very, can I say, pub driven. Where do you see yourself?

[Rahul Bhatt]

Pop driven? There's hip hop stuff that I've done. Yeah.

[Radim Malinic]

Where do you see yourself heading in the future? Is there any particular genre, artist style of work that you've got defined almost as a step going forward or bringing those influences in your current work?

[Rahul Bhatt]

I think that's a great question. I haven't actually thought about what it is next that I want to do. I think I like the challenge of kind of being creative and creating in the music industry, knowing the business side, working in the business side and then creating. I think that's what I want to continue doing and I think I want to do more of that. That makes sense. But on the creative side, I also want to find out what my style is, develop my style. And you say I have a kind of style and I think I do. But I do want to hone in a little bit more. It's. This is the signature. There's still lots more to learn on that front for me. And in an ideal world I have this like incredible signature style, continuing to work in the business or whatever it is. But I think that's a tough one, especially when we talk about building a world for an artist, compromises and stuff like that. I have to see where that goes. Yeah, yeah.

[Radim Malinic]

Because you're talking about sort of recognizable style and obviously having this almost different solutions for different artists. Because I can see that some of the imagery, like almost like the photo lab look in grainy images, some of this is hyper realistic. And it's almost like when you cater into someone else's world, building you want to have your style, but almost be like the most amazing chameleon that helps them to actually achieve their vision. So that's interesting. I would suggest start thinking what the next thing is, because it's almost like coming to these creative roadblocks sometimes or finding yourself like looking back at 10 year career and going, oh shit, that's been 10 years. What does the next 10 years come and how is it applicable? Because maybe some of these pop stars might not necessarily bother making music the next five, ten years. I think we can put money on Coldplay being in the game for the next 50 years.

[Rahul Bhatt]

With Coldplay. I did like the art direction for their tour posters and I love, I love the Coldplay team. That's so nice. And just working with them, it's just such a dream. Very communicative. The band is nice and it's just their shows are incredible. I don't know if you've been to a Coldplay show, but oh my God, incredible.

[Radim Malinic]

I'm happy to see how far you've gone because as I said, I've been following your progress through just your social media and I was like, oh, wait a minute. So I knew that you were always working with some pop stars, but I was like, wow, this, this is really impressive. So to be building that and having a story, I think must be inspiring for other people just to show them like how you can do it despite sometimes having the necessarily background because there's a lot of conversation about industry plants and there's a conversations about nepotism and you're like, actually you can do it, you can do it. You can be born in Tanzania, you can grow up in Leicester, you can totally do it. Because I think there's that element when you say like grass is always greener. Like I would never expect you to say that because your grass is the greener grass for some. So what you create is I think an aspiring level of creativity and kind of business side and showing that the versatility of being a modern creative is actually what pays dividends.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah, totally. And I, you know, I hope that your listeners find it useful or whatever because I was looking at who was on your podcast that I said earlier. I was like, oh, damn, I don't know why he wants me on there, but sure, I'll speak. But yeah, I think that's just the imposter syndrome and whatever it is.

[Radim Malinic]

I can reassure you. I had to do some therapy work on this myself in the past, but I can reassure that you're the right person in the right room doing the right thing.

[Rahul Bhatt]

When you're in the room with these people, people, Simon, whoever it is, like I'm just a kid from Tanzania, then moved to Leicester. What am I doing here? When you're in a room with that, those kind of people, you're like, oh. And then that's when the imposter syndrome heightens even more and you're like, oh, damn. But you just, you're there for a reason. You just kind of embrace it.

[Radim Malinic]

Look, it's paid dividends. I congratulate you on your career so far and I'm excited. What are the things you're going to do next? Because I think in the right place, in the right time, doing the right thing, that making a difference in artists lives and the fans lives and yeah, keep on doing.

[Rahul Bhatt]

Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

[Radim Malinic]

Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions or even suggestions. So please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinich. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by Neil McKay from 7 Million Bikes podcast and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time or your regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provide them with value. So thank you for helping out. Thank you.