← Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
Creating iconic brand stories using simple remarkable ideas - Bjorn Kussofsky
00:39:26
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- [00:01]
Radim Malinj
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- [00:51]
Bjorn Kousowski
Then the design work and the ideas will be just an answer to that strategy. And I think to reach to these simple, remarkable ideas is sometimes also a bit of a luck. Like you're in the process, you find something which you can't really imagine. In the beginning, I would reach to this certain idea and that's the beauty of ideas, isn't it, that you don't know where they come from and when they will come. So some kind of luck, I think, because a lot of design processes are limited in time.
- [01:28]
Radim Malinj
Welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Radi Malinj and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me. In this season, inspired by my book of the same title, I am talking some of the most celebrated figures in the creative industry. In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles, how they learned to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career. So thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready? My guest today is the founder of Stockholm Design Lab, an independent branding and design agency with an international recognition. For the last 28 years, they have been transforming brands and businesses with simple, remarkable ideas. In our conversation, we learn about his journey from an aspiring pop star to renowned designer, including the pivotal moment when Andy Warhol designed a record sleeve for his band. And it was this experience that influenced his decision to pursue design instead of music. Throughout his conversation, he emphasizes his philosophy of creating simple, remarkable ideas by reducing clutter and focusing on context. We discuss how to strive to create designs that stand the test of time, acknowledging that reach and simplicity requires both process and luck. It's my pleasure to introduce Bjorn Kousowski. Hey, Bjorn, how are you doing? It's great to have you on the Show.
- [03:24]
Bjorn Kousowski
Hi there. Thanks for inviting me.
- [03:26]
Radim Malinj
I have so many questions because I enjoyed your talk last time I've seen you speaking at the same conference where we were together. And yeah, I've been fond of Stockholm Design Lab for many, many years and I've been enjoy learning more about it. So for those who have potentially never heard of Stockholm Design Lab or Bjorn Kosovsky, how would you introduce yourself, what you do?
- [03:45]
Bjorn Kousowski
My name is Bjorn and that means bear, like the animal. And I was trained at the Beckman School of art in the 80s actually, and started Design Lab in 1998. And the idea of having a multidisciplinary design company from the start was like the main thing. I started it with an architect and the strategist, so we were able to work with like more holistic branding, working with everything that connects or is kind of part of a brand. So that's in 98 and now it's 2025 and we are about 25 people in the office, working mostly internationally with a lot of different clients on design and branding.
- [04:24]
Radim Malinj
I think what you said, where you started with the idea of the multidisciplinary studio in the first place, I think that really shows through what you guys have been doing and what you're doing right now. Because you were not always thinking about being multidisciplin redesigner because you wanted to be a pop star, right?
- [04:39]
Bjorn Kousowski
Yeah, that was in my early teenage years. Friends came together and we formed a band. And as any teenager, you rehearse and you spend a lot of time not going anywhere actually. But then we were able to do one single and that single became an iconic single. And it still is like something that I'm really proud of showing because the idea was that what if a small band from a small town in outside Stockholm and made an international impact. And we actually did that, not with the music, but with the COVID The record sleeve was designed by Andy Warhol and it was his last sleeve that he did before he died, actually. So it's became a very iconic thing and people were very excited that it was like you had the Rolling Stones and you have Velvet Underground, the Banana cover. And then you have our small band called the Rat Fabulous, which he designed for us. And yeah, that was the starting point and that was also something that made me change my mind. Not working with music, but working with design instead.
- [05:42]
Radim Malinj
You can potentially hear the questions of people listening to this and be like, Andy Warhol. How. How did you get Andy Warhol to design your sleeve cover?
- [05:50]
Bjorn Kousowski
Yeah, you have to remember this is in the 80s and I still use this in my lectures. That too inspired that you're able to ask anyone anything that's. Or at least that was easier before you could write a letter or a call or something. But I think it's still valuable to say that you should try to ask someone for help. The worst thing they can say is no or yes. So we were lucky because the bass player in our band, his grandfather knew a lot of artists and from like Picasso and Dali to Andy Worrell and he was traveling with his grandfather to New York. They were able to go to the Factory, Andy Warl's office. And he actually brought our single with him. He had this cassette with the music and asked Andy Worl to listen to it. And he did. He didn't say any particular thing about the music, but then he asked what was the name of the band. And the bass player said, it's called the Rat Fat. So he pulled up his stationary and wrote it like in different styles. And then he said, you can use this and printed in cyan yellow and magenta and you can do whatever you want with it. So that was like very generous. And this was a time when Andy Warl was also doing these in a way, not as artistic work. He was doing like portraits of famous people in New York. So he was a little bit like trying different things. And maybe he thought it was once again someone is asking him to do an American cover. And it's like, why not? That's like really pop art thing to say.
- [07:23]
Radim Malinj
Yes, maybe that's an interesting story about how you potentially have been part of Andy Warhol's Soul search. And just like that, that's the story. And actually he provided you with a maybe potentially first step of your soul searching, thinking that's this thing called graphic design. What can I do about it? Yeah.
- [07:38]
Bjorn Kousowski
And then later on I've seen how much he has inspired a lot of my thinking and work. And if you read his diaries, for instance, it's a lot of. He has such a lot of great things to say. Another thing that I capture was these time capsule. Do you know where those are? Like when he was in the 60s and I think in the beginning of 70s every year he was like using these time capsules, these boxes where he took everything in his office that lied around on his table and just shoved it into a box and put the date on it. And the idea was to open it like 20 or 30 years later. And I saw an exhibition in Sweden with those boxes and yeah, it was like a Time capsule, where you see like invitations or newspapers, paper ads and things like that. And I did that for some years to copy that idea for my own. And I have some boxes which I'm looking forward to open in like in 15 years or so with an ipod in its original box or like a newspaper when someone died or the 9 11, so. So I like the idea of freezing time.
- [08:42]
Radim Malinj
I have not been aware of this, but we all have some sort of maybe unassuming time capsules in some of the boxes that just collected. I remember clearing up some of my old studios and finding the boxes. I'm like, oh, you just can't bring yourself to throwing any of this stuff away. Even though right now it doesn't make any sense. But yeah, as you say, maybe in 15 years that might make a lot more sense. When we think about time capsules as creatives right now, it's mostly our websites or books that we work, that we've put together, which hopefully capture of what we created. Because the world is moving fast. I mean, you must have seen, especially since 98, when you started Stockholm Design Lab, things have moved on incrementally, almost like the time multiplies itself. What seemed like a jump between five years now, even in a year's time, we make such a huge jump. But as your role as a designer, creative thinker and pioneer and design space, is there a way to summarize the journey between 98 and 25? Like how things have changed, how you think about stuff and. Yeah, how it's influenced you along the way?
- [09:44]
Bjorn Kousowski
It's a good question. Yeah. Time, obviously is a big thing. More time or less time, it's like things are speeding up, of course, but also the amount of inspiration or knowledge. I think in the end, it's still going to boil down to curated, selected ideas and executions. Even if you have everything available and everything you can search for a lot of almost everything, it's still about the selection, what you bring to the table or what you decide to think of as a great work. Obviously, it's much, much easier to find inspiration and to search for things. But I don't think this thing about creating simple, remarkable ideas, which has been our take on design, is still really valuable and I can still relate to that. And it pushes us also to the selection idea is like you have to take away all the clutter in order to create something that is memorable, which is super difficult, of course. And uniqueness is also really difficult because, yeah, everything has been done. Meaning that I think a lot of great design is more contextual, or it's like you're putting it in a different context and in that way it becomes something new. It doesn't have to be new, but it in the context of competitors or in the space it is, it becomes new.
- [11:17]
Radim Malinj
I like your graciousness how you say simple, remarkable idea, because that in itself, when you think about it, that takes layers and layers and layers and hours of curation. And quite rightfully you say curation because even with the help of tools that you can turbocharge a process, creative process. It is down to the human to make the right choice. It's down to the human to choose how that simple, remarkable idea will come together. Because the rest of the world understands Sweden as the kings and queens of simplicity. Like when it comes to music, when it comes to product design, everything. That's how the world perceives where you guys come from and what you do. But when you see it on the inside, how hard is it to curate the clutter and the simple, remarkable idea into becoming the thing?
- [12:08]
Bjorn Kousowski
We'll be back after a quick break.
- [12:11]
Radim Malinj
If you're enjoying this podcast and would like more support and information on your creative journey, you can pick up one of my books to help you do just that. My titles cover branding, graphic design, illustration all the way to career business advice with ideas how to navigate the highs and lows of the creative process. You can pick up signed paperbacks at no extra cost from my store@nobmberuniverse.co.uk and we are shipping WorldW wide use code podcast for extra 10% off your order and you can find the links in the show notes. Any day should be a new book day.
- [12:55]
Bjorn Kousowski
This is something we strive for. I wouldn't say we always succeed. It's depending on a lot of different things. Obviously a good client or a client that has an ambition to do something different, aware of quality and so on. But I think we have a process which is really digging into like different stages to learn about the industry or benchmarking to come up with a strategy that is. It's very clear what this brand could be. Then the design work and the ideas will be just an answer to that strategy. And I think to reach to these simple, remarkable ideas is sometimes also a bit of luck. Like you're in the process, you find something which you can't really imagine in the beginning. Oh, I would reach to this certain idea. And that's the beauty of ideas, isn't it, that you don't know where they come from and when they will come. So some kind of luck, I think, because a lot of design processes are limited in time, and then you have to force yourself to come up with something. But when you succeed of finding these ideas, we feel that those ideas is also the work that will last in a way, because there are some kind of, I don't know, universal look and feel or that is standing the test of time, or at least that is the ambition. And as I said, it's quite difficult to reach there. The simplicity of Scandinavian design which you're referring to is, I think it has to be, not just kind of a surface, shallow thing, it's also based on ideas. And the reasons behind simplicity is sometimes that there isn't any other way. If you look at Scandinavian furniture or from 70 or 80 years ago, it might have been connected to the scarcity of nature, the scarcity of materials, that this is what you could do with the things that you have, right? So I think that in a way, Scandinavian simplicity can become a cliche where it's very simple and minimal, but when it's good, it's something, as you said, is you've been reduced something into its bare bones, and it really stands out because everything else is so cluttered. So it is a balance. It should never be just a style, because then it becomes boring.
- [15:18]
Radim Malinj
I think I love your reasoning, absolutely love the reasoning. And I think when you strip away all the clutter and when you get to the bare bones, that's where the truth is. When you said about the furniture, like, it's the resources. And I think it was Steve Jobs when he said, like, when you make things really simple, when you get to that simple, you can move mountains because a lot more people can understand what you're doing. A lot more people can actually see the reasoning because simplicity seems like that sort of coveted space. Like, let's create this dream about flow states. Like, we want to focus on our work, but it gets really hard to get to it because we got noise and distraction in our lives. When we get to idea of dreaming of simplicity, we often cover it with extra clutter because we don't feel safe producing the work. We talk about perfectionism, as in, okay, I need to work to be perfect. But perfectionism is an excuse for anxiety and insecurity because you worry about putting the work out there that might not be good enough. People might find holes in it. Whereas when you make work so simple, in a way, when you get to that simple, remarkable idea, that is the ultimate sort of point of confidence going, there's nothing else to add, and there's nothing else to remove. Did it always come naturally to you doing this? Like, how was your education and how was the process of you starting the agency? Did you always feel confident going to. Simple.
- [16:40]
Bjorn Kousowski
In a way, it was. It obviously it's quite natural since we come from Scandinavia. But I think our first work was for the sas Scandinavian Airlines. And we were actually only consultants to the airline because they had an English design agency doing proposals for them. And we were like somewhere in between where we would look at this from a Scandinavian point of view. And when I saw what that agency did, I was quite surprised that it was so complicated, it was so unscandinavian, meaning that there wasn't any simple idea at all. It was just a lot of stuff. And they presented like many, many, many versions until I think SAS got fed up and then we got the assignment. I think that was a good starting point to find a real project to try this idea. And obviously a Scandinavian airline should have a Scandinavian look and feel. But I think my teachers in school has been like, very, very precise and very keen on taking away the clutter. And our typography teacher, it was like he forced us to write the Alphabet for six months just with a pen. And then the next three months we were supposed to do it in Futura and then Garamon, like Garamon nine on a leading of nine on 11. So it's like you learn the basics from being very precise and that I think for me that was important to understand what the amount of work it takes to see the kind of precise.
- [18:21]
Radim Malinj
Yeah, I think anyone Under Age of 20 Listening to this would be like sweating. What, do you want me to do this that much? Because we've lost patience. We've sped up the planet, hypothetically.
- [18:33]
Bjorn Kousowski
Yeah. And sometimes it's very good. It's like you can jump over a lot of things and I think that's really great. But on the other hand, it's also great to have the kind of original skills.
- [18:44]
Radim Malinj
Yeah. Because I think, like having that wealth of time to actually be spending time agonizing the detail and learning the basics, I feel like that's a foundation for life. Like, you don't always appreciate learning complicated math structures or equations when you're little, but it comes helpful at some point in your life, it comes helpful. And I think having that foundation is really, really important because it's easy, as you said, it's easy to jump over things and actually find a shortcut and be in a place where ultimately you would benefit from having that extra information and Having extra knowledge. But you can also accept that most of the work created is created by people who are not ready. Because if you were to be ready for everything in your life, you would never be ready for anything because. Because you always need something extra. Did you learn along the process, along the way, but with your journey, was that apart from the encounter with Warhol and the school, was there anything in particular that would be like, I want to be that. I want to be a graphic designer, I want to have my studio, I want to solve bigger problems. Did you have that sort of pinpoint moment when you like, that's it?
- [19:49]
Bjorn Kousowski
Yeah, there's some moments which are quite important for me and music. As many designers, I was still super interested in music. And for me, Factory Records and everything that Peter Saville did in the 80s was like bringing a new dimension to, I would say, graphic design and also ideas. And I remember all these. I had an elder brother who brought. Who bought all these singles like this when they came out from the Factory, from Joy Division and New Order to like other bands. And that was my introduction to graphic design. And then being able to look at the masters at early age, I think was super inspiring. But then also Charles and Ray Eames, the idea of how to work with design, not only in a specific field, but to be much, much broader. They were doing film and architecture and product design and graphic design. And I think the inspiring thing there is like they managed to keep everything into certain aesthetics and ideas that was really personal from them. And that was, I think, a major inspiration as well. And then obviously some classic advertising, I don't know, Volkswagen ads. And then in the 80s, the Face magazine, I think, was one of the major inspiration at the time and things like that in early age. But then, yeah, later on, music, art, I go to a lot of art exhibitions, cinema, reading books and so on.
- [21:32]
Radim Malinj
When you started your studio, obviously now you've grown to having 25 people in the office. But as a creative growing his business, how did you find a transition from being focused on ideas and being focused on the work and being inspired by all of these amazing influences, then kind of adding into that business element, into the operations? Did you have a specific person looking after a business or did you have to get involved and start looking after development of your team and obviously career progressions and inspiring, obviously, for better work and that kind of stuff? So you have to be a businessman at some point as well as creative. How did you find that transition?
- [22:10]
Bjorn Kousowski
Yeah, as you said, you don't learn that in school. I went To a design school. I'm not a business school. And for a lot of people, suddenly you're in a position where you have to take care of employing people and like budgets and things like that. And that's still not my expertise. I would say I'm not really that person, but I manage because I have a lot of good people with me. But the fun thing, and I think that's what's most beneficial, is employing people, like meeting new people that you can either you meet in the schools or lectures that apply for work. I think that is my major. The fun part of this, that you're able to be able to employ people that are super talented and sometimes they stay a long time or sometimes they leave after three years, which is fine, and then they start another agency or something like that. But I haven't made that really big transition, which you might think I have. But I'm still as interested in the projects and work quite closely with all the designers doing the actual work and then, yeah, being very obviously very involved in new business and so on. But I'm not a business person and I'm always grateful that we get assignments every month with new clients that find us. But it's not like we have a strategy to sell our work or being like more proactive. We actually quite lazy in that sense that we have clients calling us and then we take on some of them.
- [23:43]
Radim Malinj
Go on. I don't think I would call it lazy. I think we might call it not proactive. But I think you're at that position where you spend the last. Let me do the maths. Many years creating good work. And I think in a world that is obsessed with lead generation, new business, attracting new clients, teaching sales calls and that kind of stuff, I believe that when you live and breathe what you do, in your case doing fantastic graphic design, doing fantastic branding solutions, the universe knows it. The universe sees it, obviously. And your work speeds for itself because your roster of clients, the work that you guys created, it's remarkable. It starts everything that you've said so far, the way your philosophies, the way you guys think, the link to this Swedish scarcity mindset, it's there. And some of the work, for example, like for Polestar, when I see the ads come up on the TV or when I see the print ads, when I see anything online, it feels like a piece of art. Even just I'm a designer, therefore I appreciate that sort of wide border around the pictures. They know the. The typeface, the simplicity. Because simplicity cuts through in a Noisy world. Simplicity cuts through. And I loved your example in your talk when you showed a picture from the EV Expo when there was lots of noise and lots of chaos and that your white box with just Polestar written on it and it's just giving me goosebumps look because it's so good and I've showed it to one of my clients, they're like, how would you want to be perceived? Let me show you this example. And it cuts through. When it comes to working with like the likes of Polestar, which I think in that case was a very much blank canvas. How do you go about reasoning? You said you are still involved with the projects, but how does your team work collaboratively with the other sort of engineers and that kind of stuff? How does the process go?
- [25:30]
Bjorn Kousowski
We worked with Volvo before that and Volvo is part of the Polestar. When we started working with Polestar, they were four people, I think, and the idea was to make a electric car brand. And this is nine years ago, I think. So I think the idea was that if there are, I mean, they're super small brand and at the time there was obviously Tesla and other brands that are coming out and a lot of Chinese brands. The challenge was obviously how do you make something that has an impact from the start? And again, going back to the context, we saw that there was like a opportunity of doing something very design driven because the CEO of Polestar, Thomas Inglet, he was also a car designer and very keen on working with design as a powerful tool. So the idea to make this a powerful brand is also about looking at the competition, which was very cliche in the sense of it's electric cars with like neon green and flashy logotypes and things and things like that connecting to electricity. You don't see that nowadays. Maybe some, but still I think the green color is disappearing and so on. But at the time it was like very. Everyone's highlighting the idea that it's electric and we thought that this should just be a nice brand with a nice graphic design. So the idea, like how can we simplify it? And the name itself is great. It's like the Guiding Star. It's like a made up name. Polestar. Yeah, but it's still, it's connected to some kind of idea of the Guiding Star. And I think that was the starting point, obviously a symbol that has some kind of quality with the star. But then using also this very simple idea of a typeface, the Unica typeface for everything and even putting that on the car instead of this badge on the back with some metal or something. So like this idea of a marking system that would go through everything they did and it might look very simple, but it really worked because it's those details that has an impact. And then treating the car as a piece of object to be very simple made it a lot very bold. So the image you're referring to was the Geneva car show where it was the first time it was presented and you had all these brands around it, the bigger brands, and this was like an oasis in the space where it was using simplicity and like black and white to stand out. So it worked in that context and I think that's important. If it would have been something else in another sector or industry, it might not have worked. But Now I think nine years later they are 3,000 people. They have a great in house team, they're doing a lot of great work, but we have a small team of four or five people that you work with them every day. So it's an ongoing work. And the cool thing is that they have been stick to this identity and keeping that as the core of the brand. And I think that's also important for the credibility as well that they're not changing.
- [28:53]
Radim Malinj
I think it would be very foolish to break that system because it just works. I think it's a true example of that simplicity. The showroom, the factory, the design, it looks fantastic because when you and I met a few months ago, it was the hoo ha of Jaguar, like we've got new Jaguar car. And I think they just teased the public with the logo and a badge or something. And it was that hysteria of like absolute nonsense. I'm like, what are we doing? Can we just take a breather? But I think that's a sort of testament of the times we live in, that we live on a snackable, bite sized content that people don't necessarily look below the headline because if you read the bylines and if you read the first paragraph you realize actually I can have time to make my note, to form my opinion and see what's actually in there. Because when you get to see, as someone who's practicing in this field and creates brand, sort of competitor or companion brand, how do you see that perception from the public that now branding makes headline news and not always for the right reason.
- [29:57]
Bjorn Kousowski
I'm always skeptical when there's like this big buzz around a new logo and everyone has opinions. It's obviously you can't say anything because you haven't seen the rollout or you haven't seen any applications. It's just a logotype. And a logotype never exists on its own.
- [30:13]
Radim Malinj
Right.
- [30:13]
Bjorn Kousowski
I would be very careful having opinions at that early stage. And also you don't really know the reasoning behind it and so on. Is it only a marketing stunt or is it a longer kind of an idea behind it? But it was interesting because three weeks ago we launched a redesign of a Japanese brand called Sigma, which is a camera and lens manufacturer in Japan. And we actually. Yeah, they've been around for more than 60 years and we changed their, the whole identity from the logotype and symbol to the actual typography on the products and so on. Launched. And they also launched a new camera, which is called the Sigma bf, which is a super simple camera which you take away all the clutter on a camera and you simplify it and it's an alternative to your mobile phone, I would say. But obviously there was a lot of discussions before this, how far can we go? What would people react to it? How would people perceive this change, good or bad? And you don't know until you launch it and you can look at it afterwards. But it was a really major success and people were quite open to this change, which for us, we're happy about that. But it's not obvious. That reaction would have been positive because people don't like change. Why fix something that's broken, not broken and so on, but it really positioned them in a new way with new audiences and that was a lot to do with the branding and how it was presented and people were open to that. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how, during this year, how it will be perceived in different countries. But at the moment it's been good, but you never know. And for Jaguar, going back to that, I don't know, something happened and they probably had to do something super radical to be able to not go bankrupt.
- [32:10]
Radim Malinj
Yeah, I mean, I think there's various reasons and as you said, like, you don't know the reasoning behind the scenes and sometimes, like, how do you stop people from having emotional reaction to something? Because I can tell you about two Jaguar cars that look beautiful and I can show you another seven that look hideous because they were made in the 80s and the change is needed. And I think we can inspire people with clever design and educate them bit by bit. Because what I liked when you talk about a Sigma project, I like that you kept me on a tenderhooks for a little bit, thinking, we did this rebrand for Japanese company, it was an institution, I'm like, did it go well? Oh, yeah, it went well. Good. Let's rest, because I'm looking at the video now on your website, and it's timeless, classic. I think I can see the symbol, the reason why it's that way. And I think when you get again, that simple, remarkable idea. If someone wants to reason with something like this, if someone wants to pick holes in it, they better have a really good reason and really, really strong armory to say what's wrong with it? Because it might not be everyone's taste, but the question is, does it work? Yes. I'm about time, but I've got one last question for you, which hopefully will stretch the time for a little bit. You mentioned time capsules. You mentioned time capsules, and you mentioned your own ones. But from Stockholm Design Lab, how would you construct the time capsule that is the legacy, is the inspiration for the future generations? From the work itself, but also from the philosophies and from the creative ideas. What would you put in there for everyone to see?
- [33:50]
Bjorn Kousowski
We did try to do some kind of time capsule with the book that was published a few years ago from the viktionary from Hong Kong. A book more than 500 pages, but a selection of our work. And the idea was to show that we were showing projects from 98 up until 2020 or 19 or something. That was one idea, too. It was like more of a random selection, actually. It wasn't like, these are the best work, but it was. I mean, we. Obviously, there are a lot of good work in that book. And now we're doing a second version, which will come out later this year, which stretches from 98 to 2025. Also a little bit of a random selection, but it's a good question. I don't know. I've always found it inspiring to see that a company like Pentagram is still relevant. They are doing great stuff, and they've been around for more than 50 years. They have been constantly, in a way, they've been updating, they have new partners, and I would say they are still relevant. And I think that is the goal for any design company to be relevant, not to live in the past or that you've done, I don't know, Airbnb or something in the past, and then you just keep on doing the same thing. So I think, still I'm super proud of our latest work for Sigma, for instance. That is what we strive for, to have something that has an impact, but it's made today. So whatever you put in that book, it has to have that simple, remarkable idea. Maybe I'm proud when things haven't changed. Right. So you made something and it's 25 years old and it's still around. I think that's a good reason or something. That's good, isn't it?
- [35:41]
Radim Malinj
I think I may have thrown you a curveball question, because when I look at my notes, the word curation, I think is written here about three or four times. And you mentioned is the random ideas, like the work in your book is not necessarily like the best work is just basically collected. And when we rewind it back to Andy Warhol's time capsules, he just did this, put it in the box, and that's what happened. And maybe I came to that question from the point of overthinking. What is it that I want to self curate? Or what do I want you to self curate? Because actually, maybe just literally gathering everything that's on your desk right here, right now, maybe that's just the answer to actually legacy. Because it's so easy to overthink stuff. It's so easy to think, oh, I need to put this out there, because I want people to remember me this way. Whereas if you ask somebody else what they remember about you, about your studio, about your work, they see things in totally different way. And I think that sort of, again, letting go of that perfectionism or actually being open to outside elements is, I think, one of the greatest ways of working.
- [36:44]
Bjorn Kousowski
Yeah. Yeah, That's a good way of putting it, I think. Time will tell, don't you think? I'm really scared about the second book here, for instance. Should we do that or should we wait more? I don't know. But it's fun to do books. It's so tangible, isn't it? It's not a website.
- [37:02]
Radim Malinj
Yeah. As someone who's published six books and working on seventh, I am thankful for the fact that my time capsules are actually printed and we've sold tens of thousands of copies to people around the world because some of the work is in there from 2005, 2011. And the digital aspect of our work is so hard to keep on top of because we all have terabytes of hard drives with some stuff on it. We don't particularly remember what we did 20 years ago. Whereas the physical stuff I'm a big advocate for, put it on paper, print it, bind it, put it on a shelf, because one day you will really thank yourself for making it. I like that you are slightly apprehensive, but doing the book, don't just put it out there because you can do another version in five years with more stuff.
- [37:46]
Bjorn Kousowski
So I'll send you the book when it's finished.
- [37:49]
Radim Malinj
I would absolutely love that. Bjorn, thank you so much for a sort of fast track conversation. I really enjoyed it. And one day when you got a bit more time, we'll go into a bit more detail about some of the projects and some of the work.
- [38:01]
Bjorn Kousowski
Looking forward to that. Yeah. Thank you very much.
- [38:04]
Radim Malinj
Thank you. Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions or even suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinj. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by Neil McKay from 7 Million Bikes podcast and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. Hey, just a quick another to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time or you're a regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provider with value. So thank you for helping out. Thank you.