Dare to act now (Today is the best day there is) - Haraldur Thorleifsson

Summary

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Daring Creativity. Daring Forever.

Episode: Dare to act now (Today is the best day there is)

Guest: Haraldur Thorleifsson
Host: Radim Malinic
Release Date: October 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this inspiring episode, Radim Malinic welcomes designer, entrepreneur, and creative polymath Haraldur "Hali" Thorleifsson. Hali shares his journey from Iceland’s unique creative culture to agency leadership, music, profound loss, and living with muscular dystrophy. The conversation centers on the universality of creativity, the importance of adaptability and resilience, and the philosophy of acting now—because today is always the best day there is.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Universality and Process of Creativity

• Everyone is creative: Hali challenges the myth of the "non-creative person," emphasizing that creativity is inherent and universal.
  • “I've met a lot of people who believe that they're not creative, but I've never met a person who's not creative.” (00:00, Hali)
• Stages of the creative journey: All creative work shares a common path—uncertainty, self-doubt, iterative progress, and the unpredictability of the end result.
  • Detailed at both the start (00:00) and closing reflections (48:17).

Early Influences and Icelandic Generalism

• Iceland’s creative culture: Iceland’s small population breeds generalists, making it easy to participate in creative fields and fostering media visibility for new ventures.
  • “There's a lot of opportunity to create in Iceland, partly because of the size of the population. You're able to get involved in all sorts of creative ventures without really knowing anything, because they just need people.” (06:36, Hali)
• Growing up creative: Early experiences with LEGO and his mother’s costume design work instilled a belief in making things from nothing and understanding that everything is invented.

Coping with Loss and Finding Expression

• Loss as a catalyst: Hali lost his mother at age 11, navigating grief in a time and place with little support.
  • “One of my main coping mechanisms was just burying everything...the music was maybe a more healthy way to deal with this.” (14:32, Hali)
• Music as catharsis: Initially uninterested in music, Hali took to songwriting as a teen, finding expression for love, loss, and sorrow, though performing remained a challenge due to shyness and reliance on alcohol.

Escapism, Curiosity, and the Leap into Design

• Digital discovery: Exposure to early web development at university provided not just an income, but empowerment—a way to create and share with the world from home.
• From freelancer to agency founder: After freelancing and a stint in New York, Hali returned to Iceland and, following years of experience, founded his own digital agency. The journey required rapid learning in people management as the agency grew.

The Challenge of Leadership

• Managing growth and admitting limits: Hali candidly discusses the difficulties of leading people versus projects, his naive early assumptions about others, and the investment in executive coaching.
  • “I just assumed that everyone was like me and so everyone needed the same things that I did...And so that took me a long time. And at one point, I had three executive coaches.” (23:20, Hali)
• Key management lesson: It's vital to meet people where they are, align values, and recognize when someone simply isn't the right fit—without blame.
  • “Meeting people where they are, working from there I think is very important.” (27:01, Hali)

Navigating Growth, Selling, and Regret

• Operational shifts and struggle for creative connection: As the agency scaled past 100 employees, Hali strove to stay involved in creative direction, even as management consumed more of his time.
• Selling to Twitter/X: The transition to a global tech company presented a “very hard transition,” especially around culture, role specificity, and reduced influence, but Hali reframes this as an opportunity for learning, not regret.
  • “Regret can drown you and you can become bitter. That's a very bad place to be.” (33:42, Hali)

Public Exit and Resilience

• High-profile departure: Hali discusses his infamous exit from Twitter, which became public and media fodder. He reflects on composure, perspective, and the resilience built from life’s prior challenges.
  • “Even though it got a lot of attention, this was very far from being the most important thing in my life.” (34:41, Hali)
• Host reflection: Radim notes this as an illustration of adaptability and resilience as a lived skill, not a desirable state.

New Chapters: Physical Spaces and Tribute

• Designing a restaurant in tribute to his mother: Returning to Iceland, Hali designed and opened a restaurant as a love letter to his late mom. The project was both fulfilling and fraught—beautiful in its creation, challenging in business practice.
  • “I wanted to create a place that had the feeling that I had when I was in her presence and when I experienced the things that she made and so created this restaurant.” (37:33, Hali)
• Reflection on regret and closure: Hali ultimately closed the restaurant, recognizing the difficulty of turning emotional tribute into business, but feels proud for having dared to create it.

Life with Muscular Dystrophy: Motivation and Urgency

• Living with the condition: Hali describes his slowly-progressing muscular dystrophy as a daily reminder not to postpone meaningful endeavors.
  • “The current state is always the best there is, then I felt I should use my opportunities while I have them...Should I do this later or should I do it now? It's always I should do it now, because who knows?” (43:55, Hali)
  • Radim summarizes: “Today is the best day there is. Do it now, don't wait.” (45:04, Radim)

Ongoing Creativity and Advice

• Continued projects: Hali is always working on something new, launching a walking podcast (“Let’s Walk”) and continuing to create, but prefers not to discuss ideas until they’re real.
  • “One of my fuels is...I try not to talk about the things that I'm about to do.” (46:04, Hali)
• Advice for next generations: Everyone is creative, all creativity is interlinked, and perseverance is key—“If you don't quit, you will end up with something that you're proud of...the ultimate expression of being human.” (48:17, Hali)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I've met a lot of people who believe that they're not creative, but I've never met a person who's not creative.”
– Hali Thorleifsson, 00:00

"Adaptability and resilience is the main thing that you want to make sure that people have in a future that's so uncertain.”
– Hali Thorleifsson, 10:13

“One of my main coping mechanisms was just burying everything...the music was maybe a more healthy way to deal with this...”
– Hali Thorleifsson, 14:32

“Meeting people where they are, working from there I think is very important.”
– Hali Thorleifsson, 27:01

"You can't change the past, so you can't really go back. And there was no point in me thinking a lot about, should I have done this? ...Regret can drown you and you can become bitter. That's a very bad place to be."
– Hali Thorleifsson, 33:42

"Knowing that there was always the current state is always the best there is, then I felt I should use my opportunities while I have them. Not knowing I will be able to do in the future, but knowing what I can do right now."
– Hali Thorleifsson, 43:55

“If you don't quit, you will end up with something that you're proud of, and that's pretty much a guarantee...the ultimate expression of being human.”
– Hali Thorleifsson, 48:17

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Universal creativity and its process: 00:00, 48:17
• Icelandic creative generalism: 06:36
• Early creative influences & LEGO: 04:15
• Impact of mother’s loss: 14:32
• Finding music as expression: 11:04
• Leap into digital design: 18:10
• From freelancing to agency founding: 20:34
• First lessons in leadership: 23:20
• Executive coaching and management philosophy: 24:53, 27:01
• Balancing scale and creativity: 29:19
• Selling to Twitter and adapting to change: 31:42
• Public Twitter exit and resilience: 34:41
• Restaurant tribute to mother: 37:33
• Muscular dystrophy and philosophy of urgency: 43:55
• Advice for future creators: 48:17

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Episode Summary & Takeaways

This is a powerful episode about daring to create—not despite, but through, loss, adversity, and imperfection. Hali Thorleifsson’s story illustrates that creativity is innate, interconnected across disciplines and lives, and that the key to meaningful achievement is to act now with what you have. It's not about waiting for the perfect conditions, but about refusing to wait for permission. His outlook, honed by living with muscular dystrophy, is clear: Today is always the best day there is.

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For Further Listening

• Hali’s walking podcast: Let’s Walk
• More from Radim Malinic: radimmalinic.co.uk

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Transcript

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Foreign. I've met a lot of people who believe that they're not creative, but I've never met a person who's not creative. And then the second part of this is I think all creativity is connected. There is the beginning steps, where you don't know where you're going, where you have all the doubt. There is the middle part where you have something but you're not sure if it's any good. And then there's the end part when you release it, and it's different to what you expected. Everyone goes through the same journey, and I think as an extension of the fact that everyone's creative, I think we also have this narrative that everyone should be. That everyone, whatever their creative journey is, that's the extent of their creativity. And I think everyone. Once you learn the creative process, I think you can apply it to all sorts of different things.

[Radim Malinich]

Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinich. I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human beings. I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a Are you ready to discover what happens.

[Interviewer]

When you dare to create?

[Radim Malinich]

Today, I am speaking with Hali Thorlifsson, who shares his extraordinary creative journey from the Icelandic music scene through design, agency leadership and unconventional projects and entrepreneurship. In our conversation, we talked about him growing up in Iceland's small generalist culture, where he learned early that everyone is creative and all creativity is connected. Living with muscular dystrophy, Halley embodies the philosophy that today is the best day there is, which is a mindset that has driven him to create without waiting for permission. From managing 100 plus employees to designing dreamlike physical spaces and launching a walking podcast, Halle demonstrates how adaptability, resilience, and refusing to quit transforms doubt into work only you could create. It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Halle Thorlifsson. Hari, welcome to the show.

[Interviewer]

It's great to have you here today.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Thank you so much. How's it going?

[Interviewer]

So you use this. Is it a joke? But your full name, when you pronounce it, you say. Have I pronounced it correctly?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Yeah, well, yes. My full name is Haraldson. Okay. So I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly because nobody does.

[Interviewer]

So for those who might struggle to pronounce your name, hopefully not be able to pronounce your shorter version of your name, how would you introduce yourself?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

So, yeah, well, the shorter version of my name, the one I use for Iceland, is Hanley. And I've been in a creative field for most of my adult life. I've worked on a lot of different types of projects, starting off in digital design, branding, product design. And then once I founded my company and then sold my company, I started doing other things that were on the back burner while I was running what was a digital agency. And those things are pretty varied, but they're the belief that all creativity is connected and I'm trying to prove that out through my life.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about where did your creativity sort of first passed your consciousness?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Well, I was actually thinking about this earlier because I'm going to Copenhagen soon to talk to LEGO and some of the people there. And I think one of the first memories I have of feeling like I could create something was actually Lego. And LEGO then was something a little bit different than LEGO now in that there weren't these huge kits, it was just these bricks and you could build anything. And I just remember sitting for hours and building cities or cars or whatever it was. And my mom was an artist and a costume designer. So I also remember just sitting with her as she was drawing and I spent time with her and watching her work and understanding that and kind of realizing from her that you don't really need much to create. You know, she was the kind of person that was able to create anything from nothing. And I think a lot of moms are like that and maybe parents now, but those I think were the first sparks for me of understanding that life is made up, everything around us is made by people and we're able to influence our environment.

[Interviewer]

Your mum being a costume designer, what sort of work was she producing?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

She worked in mostly in theater and then later in TV and films. Started off though in sort of more commercial things, but was drawn to the theater and spent. I spent a lot of time in theaters. My parents got divorced when I was young and she married an actor. And so I just remember spending a lot of time behind the scenes in the theater and watching how things get made and how make believe works.

[Interviewer]

I wanted to know, population of Iceland compared to anywhere else is tiny. How does it even work? Because when I look at it like currently your population is about just below 400,000 people. That's like A couple of districts in London and to have almost people assigned. This is the most ridiculously naive question, but how easy, difficult are the opportunities to create something and to have enough people to actually show up for it at that time or even now?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

I think there is a lot of opportunity to create in Iceland, partly because of the size of the population. You're able to get involved in all sorts of creative ventures without really knowing anything, because they just need people. And I think that what that breeds in general is there's a lot of generalists in Iceland, people that are able to do multiple things decently well. And also with the population, we have a surprising amount of media. And so that means. And they constantly need content. And so if you have something that you want to promote, it's very easy to promote it at a fairly national level and get the word out really quick. We still kind of live in this world, although it's obviously been broken down as. As it has everywhere, where if something is on tv, most people know about it.

[Interviewer]

I find it fascinating, absolutely fascinating. But what I find, I think even more fascinating when you said that everyone's a generalist, that mindset must be a way of intrigue that you hear about so many Icelandic stories about people who are polymaths of things that they do that come from this culture and from this society, where you actually have to find a way of looking around the corners because people need you.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Yeah. And I remember when I started working as a designer outside of Iceland, because in Iceland, I'm not trained as a designer, but I was working for companies here in Iceland, and my job as a designer at that point wasn't well defined. I felt that everything was my responsibility. Everything from just coming up with the concept, the idea, the branding, the coffee, the selling it through, getting developers involved, producing, was all what I was supposed to do. And then when I moved to America, it took me a while to realize it's just that's definitely not how things work there, where people are extremely specialized and you have a person that's very good at each of those five or ten things that I just listed. And that's the team that you get to work with. And with that comes. There's a lot of benefit to that. But also I do think there's a lot of benefit to at least understanding all aspects of the project and understanding what everyone does, at least at a surface level, understanding how they do it and what they need to do.

[Interviewer]

I think I, as a fellow generalist, would fully understand the curiosity behind. Because you can't teach people to. To want to be curious and actually want to know everything. And sometimes this comes to you as for example, comes to you, comes to me and lots of other journalists. That is the situation. You have to work out all Those, let's say, 12 steps between a to Z and you have to do it and make it. And you become more than just a creative, become a producer, let's say a music producer who knows how to direct the engineer to get the best sound of the drums, how to get the best sound of the guitar amp, how to do this, how to make sure that conceptually it works. And then you get the. The session musician, the guitarist, like just to play a solo and all right, goodbye. We needed you for a minute. Whereas you feel like a producer, you've got a job for life. Because there is all other ways of applying yourself.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

I think that being able to adapt is very important in what is for the world that's coming. Because we don't really know how it's going to change. We do know that it's going to change pretty drastically. And I think about this a lot, even for my children now is that what do you teach kids? What is it that is important? And think adaptability and resilience is the main thing that you want to make sure that people have in a future that's so uncertain.

[Interviewer]

You said your parents divorced, your mom married an actor. You obviously got to see her now working for the world of film, theater, tv. Where do we draw the dots now from her work? And you wanted to go and pursue music or explore music and creativity. How much music played part in your life?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

I lost my mom when I was young. She was. I was 11 when she died. And even before that and for a long time, even into my teenage years, not related to that, but I was. I didn't really like music. I didn't understand why people listened to it. It was just this noise to me. And I think I related it. There was a lot of. I had young parents. Both my mom and dad were very young when they had me. And I think I related just the partying and I didn't really enjoy it. And especially my dad played and plays guitar and I used to hate it when he played. It really annoyed me when I heard him play. And so it was when I was maybe 16, 17, I started playing around with his guitar. And that's the first time I really started to enjoy music and then fell very deeply in love with it. And very quickly after I started playing guitar, I started to write music and I felt that was. I just, I enjoyed it so much. And I had books and books of songs that I wrote going back to when I was maybe 16, 17, and for about five or six years, that's as I was going through university. That's what I. That was my creative outlet. That was the way that I expressed things like my. Through my first relationship, expressing affection or love and then sorrow for some of the things that I've gone through. And it was a way for me to put something out there. And music is strange. I think it lives apart from every other art form and that it's very hard to pinpoint what it is about it that works or doesn't work and how it affects you is so deeply personal. So, yeah, I just loved writing music, but then I was way too shy to perform. The only way that I could perform it for anyone was, was if I drank a lot. And relating back to the earlier point about alcoholism, I could not get on stage without being bored and I'm blackout drunk.

[Interviewer]

I wanted to know how this cathartic process of songwriting, how did it make you feel and how much did it potentially help you with processing the grief of losing your mom? Because that's such a monumental event in anyone's life. And sometimes the things like alcohol, music or escapism go hand in hand when the grief is unresolved.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

We'll be back after a quick break.

[Radim Malinich]

This episode is brought to you by Lux Coffee Company, the first creative specialty coffee company building a platform to shine the light on emerging global talent. With a mission to make a positive impact on a creative industry and Beyond. Lux Coffee Co. Offers exceptional coffee sourced from around the world through ethical and sustainable practices. And you can discover the current range of signature blends and single origins coffee hardware and accessories along with exceptional apparel. @luxcoffee.co.uk you can use the code podcast to get 15% off your first order.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Yeah, I mean, going back and starting there, I was 11 years old and I'm born in 1977, so this was in 88. And at that time, especially in Iceland, there were, there was no nobody to help you process something like that. I remember I went to see one priest for about what I remember as being about maybe a 15 minute conversation and that was it in terms of any kind of grief counseling. And my dad was 33 when this happened and I'm 48 now and I have no idea how I would help my kids through this. And he clearly had no idea how he could help me through this, not through any fault of his own. And there was nobody, no specialists to really help direct us. So it all got buried and I didn't want to talk about it, I didn't want to think about it. And it was very. One of my main coping mechanisms was just burying everything. And that's where I think when I drank, I got very sad because that's when I couldn't hold it back. And that's where all the things came back. But it still felt good to at least try and touch it in some way. And then the music was maybe a more healthy way to deal with this, where I had to sit down and think about. And I wrote a lot of songs about her and have written many, many songs about her. And in different ways, I think they've all helped me at least understand how I was feeling. Because if you're that young and you don't know how to deal with it and you try and bury everything, it doesn't stay buried. It just stays somewhere right underneath the surface. And you feel all the things, but you just don't understand what you feel.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel that with the loss of your parent, one of your parents and your dad being at the young age of 33, we both know we felt like we were 33. I think as you quite maturely and quite wisely said, when you were 33, you wouldn't know how to help somebody who was 11. And that because I think especially in 1988, and I'm only a year younger than you, I'm very much related to certain things. I relate to certain things like how the system was just non existent for site support. So when you talk about this happening so young, do you feel like you had to grow up slightly faster than your peers? So did you feel like you had to almost look after your dad? Or do you feel like you had.

[Radim Malinich]

To grow beyond your years?

[Interviewer]

Because that's a monumental event that puts you on a different par or it puts you on a different parallel to your peers.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Well, I think when something like this happens, and for me, I think you grow up very fast in certain areas and certain areas get stifled and you have. You're not as emotionally developed as other people. But one of the things that I definitely felt was I was so afraid of losing my father that I became an unknown or a caretaker for him. Not that he asked for it, not that that he maybe even realized it, but I was always looking at his behavior and wondering if any of it could lead to him passing on as well. And that became a very sort of a big Part of me was trying to make sure that my dad stayed alive.

[Interviewer]

You think that your transition into creative work, design work, was another form of escapism? Did you feel that or was it more from the point of curiosity or maybe both?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

I think definitely both. I think there is. When I first got into it, I was at university. I was studying. I started off studying philosophy and then I went into. I felt like I needed something practical. So I started to learn finance and there was a. A course there which was. I think it was called it 101 or something like that. And it was again, I'm showing my agent. This would have been in 1997 and the Internet was fairly young, but one week our assignment was, you should create a website. Creating a website at that point was fairly complicated compared to what it is now. But it was a very simple website. You write your name, put your phone number and I can't remember. It's a little bit of information about yourself. And then you could hosted on the university website. And that was the first time I really understood. The Internet has been around for a little bit, but not that long. And I really understood. I can put anything out here. And in theory, even though nobody sees it, in theory, everyone can see it. And that to me was a big thing, a big revelation of just I can make something and in the comfort of my. Which is different than music, I can make something in the comfort of my home, in front of my screen. I can put it out there and other people can see it.

[Interviewer]

When you said I studied philosophy and I needed something more practical, which was finance, literally, it put a huge smile on my face because I love those totally unrelated topics that are so connected to creativity. So connected. Whereas there's not many famous philosophy companies, no hiring at any point, there's more finance companies. But it. I love joining these doors. How it puts you on the path to what you did next. Because yeah, that early HTML code which all of a sudden works, you're like, oh my gosh. Like first we coded hello to show up on screen. Okay, I did that. And then your geo cts and kind of stuff like you can actually put your website first up there and then everything grows from there. So how do we go from the first rudimentary website on your university server to you starting your design agency, uno?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Well, very quickly. This was the first year, second year at university, first year in finance. This was when I was. I took that course and very quickly realized this. I enjoyed it and I was relatively good at it. And so I started, I think within months of that, I started doing projects for other people and other companies and grew up. We did not have a lot of money. And so it was how I sustained myself and supported myself while I was at university. So I was doing these odd jobs as a designer slash developer is a stretch, but still I would design these sites basically in code and I was able to make money out of it. I was able to do this for other people. I enjoyed that a lot. And so very quickly that became one of the potential career paths for me. Even though I was still at university and I finished, ultimately finished the separate degrees of philosophy and finance to then and again then I wanted to do even something more practical. So I went for my master's degree in economics. But I realized at some point I was enjoying the science thing and I was maybe more important at that point. I was able to make money from it. I was able to pay the bills and started doing that more and more. Ultimately got to point where I applied for a job at an agency that I looked up to tremendously. That I don't know how I even thought about applying because it felt so far out of reach. And that was in New York. It was called Hubert Council. And they had. They just had everyone as a client, even though they were small, every big agency, every big company. And so I somehow got that job, moved to New York and started working with them. New York was maybe too big of a leap for me at that point. I'd only lived in Iceland and I fell into debauchery. But I went back to Iceland, kept working with these big clients, and ultimately that led to, after, I don't know, seven, eight years of freelancing that led to me starting my agency.

[Interviewer]

I always ask people who are in a similar story, what was the jump and what was the inevitable? Like, how did you handle the inevitable step into the leadership role? Because there's always a common answer and that is often, yeah, not very well. So how was that journey for you?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

I did not. I had never been a manager to anyone. When I started the agency, I had managed projects and I think I was. I had a pretty good handle on how to manage projects because I was. As a freelancer, I was starting to take on bigger and bigger projects that needed a lot of different people. But I was not a capable people manager. And that took me a long time to get any kind of grasp on because that's a very different skill set. And going back to what I said earlier, I just assumed that everyone was like me and so everyone needed the Same things that I did. And everyone had the same experiences that I had. And I was always frustrated when people didn't do what I would have done. Even though I never explained what I wanted them to do, I just assumed that they would get it. And so that took me a long time. And at one point, I had three executive coaches, three people that were trying to help me become a better manager because the agency was growing so fast that I was. It's very different to also be a manager of three people, to 20 people, to 50 people or 70 or 100. And you have middle managers and then senior people and all. You're learning different skills along the way.

[Interviewer]

Tell me more about how did you get in to get three executive coaches? Did somebody tell you, Hari, you need some help? Or did you go, I think I'm fucking up. I need some help?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

I can't remember. Probably somebody told me, but I can't remember how it started. But I started with one. It was never. The intention, was not, let's go with three. I started with one. That person was very good at the emotional side of things. He was very attuned to people, but it wasn't very structured. And so I added another one who was. She had a PhD in psychology and could help me maybe put form to a lot of these things. And then the third one was kind of a mix between an executive coach and a therapist for me, because a lot of the things that you see from executives or anyone is they haven't worked out their own stuff. And so I had to deal with some of my own problems as well.

[Interviewer]

I like that you said, I assumed that everyone was like me, everyone knew the same thing as me. And it's such an easy assumption to make because when you think and almost give people the benefit of the doubt, when you think better of them, the canvas is blank. It's an open playing field. Because it's often the people who think that everyone else's ambitions or everyone else is clued up, and. Because that's how you see the world, and that's how you wish to see the world also existed when you come to a realization that, oh, no, no one's as ambitious as me, or I'm ambitious in my own way, I'm doing things my own way. And you almost think I'm seeing people through the wrong lens, thinking they should be just like me, if not better, only to realize, oh, you know what? It's okay for them to be who they are. And I can really feel for what you're saying, like Because I've been in a similar place, not with 100 employees, but with the life stories where you really want for people to do well and achieve something. And I go, no, I'm happy to be here. How does that work? Because you can't process it right. Is there any particular sort of standout findings from those coaching sessions that you still carry till today?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Meeting people where they are working from there I think is very important. And so understanding what motivates this person, what is it that they want to achieve, and then realizing sometimes that matches or can match with where we're going as a company or as a team, and sometimes it doesn't. And that doesn't have to be the fault of anyone, it just doesn't work. And so making sure that you're building a cohesive culture is extremely important. That doesn't mean that everyone is the same person. It means that there are core values though that you're aiming for that we're all aligned on to a degree at least. And if the people that come in that don't fit in, it's better for everyone if they move out sooner rather than later because they won't be happy, the team around them won't be happy. And ultimately it can break if you persist. Because it. For the longest time I felt I can change these people, I can change who they are, and I can. So despite evidence to the contrary, I would keep people on that weren't a good fit. And again, realizing it wasn't that they were bad people, they weren't qualified, they just didn't fit into what we were doing.

[Interviewer]

Such a beautiful thing to say. I wanted to change people because you're doing it with the right heart, the right mindset, the right ambition and the right empathy. But no one can be helped if they don't want to help themselves.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Yeah, and again, maybe they didn't need help, maybe they were fine. It just that's this isn't the place.

[Interviewer]

For them at that situation. A lot of people in a creative roles almost are dreading to become a manager or dread to grow and stay small for the reason that they want to stay connected to the creativity. How did that work for you? Because obviously you were from a freelance role now running a giant agency with a hundred plus people. Were you still connected to creativity or were you just there to solve the problems and make sure that the ship stays steady and flows and sales?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Definitely there were times when I was more connected and times when I was less connected were times when there was a needed to focus on More operational things. But my goal was always to find people to run the operations so that I could focus on what I thought, what I was best at, which was running the creative teams. And then as a side, well as very connected to that is running the sort of the relationship with the customer, because understanding what they're looking for helps tremendously in leading the creative work. And so towards the end, before I sold my agency, we were getting into a pretty good groove where I felt like I was splitting my time fairly well between the things that I course good at. And I had a senior team that was qualified and able to execute on a very high level on all the different things that an agency has to do. I was never, almost never, the creative director on a project. My job was to review the work maybe once a week, twice a week with the creative director and be in touch with the client and understanding if there was a misalignment and helping to course correct if there was as soon as possible, without taking control away from the creative director, which was a delicate dance.

[Interviewer]

Speaking of a delicate dance, the way you got to the position where you got there at the agency, then he sold the agency to a known global platform, Twitter. At that time, what was it like to become a part of a bigger machine and almost have your role change? How much autonomy did you retain or how much was it about the change that was you no longer were sort of working for outside clients in the way you used to be, and everything's changed. So we all have this, what's called muscle memory. Like we used to work in a certain way for years and years and everything then changes. How did you adapt to it? How did you find those changes? Because obviously you were tasked with certain roles for Twitter too. You're bringing it to the younger audience, you know, doing certain things in a different way. How was it for you? Because was it a kind of radical change that you had to adapt to? How was it?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

It was very hard. It was a very hard transition. I had. It took me a long time to get to the point where I felt comfortable in the role that I had. And it was a very stark difference in terms of role, in terms of culture, in terms of my ability to influence things. And so that was a very hard transition and it took me a long time to adapt to that. And learning different tools and different ways of working, it was, I think it was very helpful for me in general after the fact. But at the time it felt pretty bad.

[Interviewer]

You mentioned no influence. Basically everything's changed at what time? If at All a regret comes into situation, does it not?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

I think regret depends on how you use that word. I think you can't change the past, so you can't really go back. And there was no point in me thinking a lot about, should I have done this? I knew the reasons I did it and they still held. Even though it turned out a little bit differently than I expected, probably because I was maybe naive, it still felt like at the time it was the right decision. And so I didn't have regret in that way. But it was definitely. I mean, I had a lot of moments where I felt, I don't really like this. I don't really like this feeling. I don't really like what I'm doing. But I was tried to reshape that feeling into, well, the fact that I don't like it means that there's something for me to learn here. And I've made this choice. This is what I'm doing. The best thing for me to do right now is use this as a way to learn new things and learn new skills, because I think you can get. Regret can drown you and you can become bitter. That's a very bad place to be.

[Interviewer]

You are no longer employed by Twitter and most of the world knows about it because you had a high profile conversation with your employer in a public realm and then you left. If I could ask you just how you felt when it was all finished, this chapter of your life was done. And it's provided you, as you just said, with lots of things that you've learned about. It's helped you to grow as a creative, as a person, as a human.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

And.

[Interviewer]

And then there's this, let's say, storm in a teacup almost. It seemed massive on the outside, like having seen it play out in real life in front of our eyes on Twitter. Then it becomes BBC News, it becomes everything because of the other person.

[Radim Malinich]

When it all died down, which I.

[Interviewer]

Hope it has done. How do you look back at all of this? What do you leave behind and what you take forward?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Well, it happened very fast. I've been on Twitter for so long that I've been in so many different heated debates on Twitter that prepared me for that moment, that it wasn't in the moment. It didn't feel that big. And after the fact, I felt proud of how I handled it and I felt I did the best I could in that situation and it resolved itself in a way that I was satisfied with. And so I don't regret anything that I did there. And I feel made the right choices in a pretty heated moment. And again, it taught me a lot about who I am and who I can be in that situation. And I think there were so many things that led to that moment that helped me deal with it in the way that I did. And just having, not least, having the different things that have happened in my life where I was able to put this in context, that even though it got a lot of attention, this was very far from being the most important thing in my life.

[Interviewer]

This is an interesting thing you said. I've been on Twitter for long enough to know how to handle heated debates, because you handled that moment incredibly. Like, you talked earlier about the fact that we need to teach our children adaptability and resilience. That was everything up to that moment. What you've learned, how you've conducted yourself, what you've learned about yourself as a human creative designer, employer, manager, those creates that multifaceted armory shield, whatever you want to call it, like the. That suit for that element of exchange which can easily throw loads of people. And I'm sure that we all know that being resilient is not nice, that we don't want to ever be resilient. But having resilience and know how to handle ourselves, it can be our superpower. Because you can go through these situations, and this is situations like no other for most people in our lifetime, is admirable. And, yeah, all of a sudden, you became almost a household name because of what happened in a matter of minutes, shall I say. So this was quite remarkable. But you're no longer there, and you pursue in other creative projects. You've reconnected with your guitar. You've got obviously your music out in the world. What I really want to talk about today, especially now, is the fact that you've created a restaurant as one of your creative projects, which is a tribute to your mom. I've seen the photographs of it, I've read the statement on the website, and I think this should be encapsulated for the rest of the lifetime of this planet as a love letter to a parent who had remarkable impacts on their child. In this case, you and what you created back as a creation. Because you need to tell me more about it. It's remarkable.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Yeah. I was looking for a way for a long time. She died so young and she gave me so much. And I was looking for a way for a long time to somehow remember her. And then there was. When I moved back to Iceland, there was a location that was perfect. It was across the street from where I currently live. And it was. I currently live very close to where I used to live. And I remember me and my mom passing that building, and it's a very special building and talking about it, and she really loved it. And all these things connected. And I wanted to create a place that had the feeling that I had when I was in her presence and when I experienced the things that she made and so created this restaurant. I think it was tremendously hard. It was. We designed it and then built it out and building it out in a country that doesn't have any specialists, it's very hard to build out something that's special. And so it was very hard. And I'm not sure if I would again, going back to this idea of regret, I'm not sure if I would do it again, because turning a memory into what has to be then ultimately a business is maybe not a good idea. But I don't regret making it because at least for a moment, it was the thing that I wanted to build in her memory. And it stood as the testament to her and to the part of her that's in me that I want to celebrate.

[Interviewer]

Before we started recording, I told you that daring creativity isn't about jumping out of planes. It's about doing the thing that you will regret not potentially making. And in this instance, it's exactly what happened. You created the thing that you potentially would regret not making. And now it's. Now it was a reality. I love the fact that you say, in a country with no specialists, it's hard to build a restaurant how you designed it. So from you working digitally for most of your life, what was it like to design a physical space? And how did that throw you around in a way that didn't expect?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Well, we had one of the things that. Before I sold Twitter, one of the things that I was really excited about is we were already starting to work with sort of little bit outside of the digital world. And we were working with Facebook, for example, on some of their offices. And I really enjoy making physical spaces we designed and we built all our own offices that were all pretty unique. And so I had some experience, but this was different. This was a different scale and it was the design process. And I worked with great people on this. Definitely didn't do it on my own, but I worked with great people on it and it turned out pretty much exactly the way. Well, even better than I even imagined. So that part was great. Building out, the build out process was terrible. That's the part where I didn't have enough experience. And I didn't have maybe the right people to work with. And I didn't feel like there was appreciation for the standard that we were trying to achieve or even understanding of what it means to make something unique.

[Interviewer]

Do you think that the restaurant needed more time to be understood or appreciated? Because when I see the visuals from the interior, it's a transcending space. It looks like it was collaborated with Wes Anderson, in a way. And I was. Got these beautiful hues of pink and dreamlike scapes and the silhouette of your mum being in a logo sometimes. And it happens in the world, let's say in the world of music, you'll hear an album and you go, doesn't make any sense. And then five years later, that was.

[Radim Malinich]

The best thing ever recorded.

[Interviewer]

You now was the. And when you had the restaurant. And I believe it's closed now, right?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Well, yeah, I ended up deciding to close it because I really did not enjoy running a restaurant. I really enjoyed designing a restaurant, did not really enjoy building it, and then ultimately did not enjoy running it. And again, that. That became a problem of turning a memory into a business. But I think where you're going with the question is sort of, would it have worked out? I think there was definitely, yes, it would have, if we had stuck to it. But I. I think I didn't really think this through, but because I had never. I had no intention of being a restaurateur. I did not. The idea in my head of, well, I'll build this and then I'll spend a tremendous amount of time on location, which is what you need to do when you run a business. And so I handed that off to other people. And that's. You can't. I mean, I think you can do that after a while. But I didn't have the time or even the patience to put in the work that was needed to make that happen. So they ended up closing it down. And then I was very lucky in finding chef, a Michelin chef that wanted to reopen in the space and use the space to build something that is. There's a new restaurant that's running there now, and it's amazing. So it's still across the street from me. So I'm very lucky in having that space here right across from where I live.

[Interviewer]

And did they retain most of your design aesthetics? Did they keep most of what you've created?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Yeah, I mean, it was a very specialized place. And so changing it is very complicated. So there's a few touches that they changed, but in General, they retained it. And I think it's. I agree with you. I've never been into a place like this before. That's what I want to create. I wanted it to feel like a dream. And it did feel and does feel like a dream when you come into that place.

[Interviewer]

What we haven't mentioned throughout this conversation is actually the fact that you've achieved so many things despite having a life handicap compared to most of the society. You've got a condition called muscular dystrophy. And to some people that would potentially make them sit back and make things easier for themselves and potentially accept the faith, okay, this is my life, this is what I'll do. And am I right in your case, it was the fuel to propel you and actually achieve despite the condition.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

In many ways, yes. Because so the way there's a lot of different types of muscular dystrophy, the way mine is very slow moving. So it meant that when I was a kid, I had a walk that was different to most other kids. When I was a teenager, it became harder to walk upstairs. And then eventually when I was about 25, I started using a wheelchair. And then slowly my arms became less and less able to do things. And knowing that there was always the current state is always the best there is, then I felt I should use my opportunities while I have them. Not knowing I will be able to do in the future, but knowing what I can do right now. And I've always, when I think about should I do this later or should I do it now, it's always I should do it now, because who knows? And I think, I mean, that applies to everyone. But having that very obvious reference for me did really drive me towards action rather than thinking about doing something.

[Interviewer]

I don't think a kick up the ass can be summarized with better sentence that today's the best day there is. Do it now, don't wait. Because it stopped me right now in my tracks. It's like to see the world and sometimes to see the waste potential of what could be. It's sometimes devastating because I'm sure this conversation pretty much symbolizes the fact that you never waited for anyone's permission to start the next chapter.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Yeah, there's definitely moments of doubt. I have moments of feeling like I can't do this. But I have tried to just keep moving. I don't feel like there is someone else that can stop me or should be able to stop me from doing what I want to do.

[Interviewer]

So keeping moving, keeping going forward. The restaurant is still across the Road, you've released an album, but what are you doing right now? What is the next step?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Well, I, I have a few different projects that I'm always working on. There is, you know, things that I can and can't talk about, but I, and I usually try not to talk about things until they're real. One of my, one of my fuels is actually I used, when I was drinking, my least favorite person was the person at the bar that would tell you all about all the things that they were about to do. And then you would meet them years later and they were still telling you about the things that they were about to do. And so I try not to talk about the things that I'm about to do. So there are things on the horizon that I don't want to share, but there are. The most recent thing I've done is launched a podcast, which is a very white guy with a beard thing to do. But I felt it was connected to this, connected a lot of threats to me. For me, I got a new wheelchair that was a lot more mobile than the one that I had before. It was also it's able to go up and down, so I'm able to be at eye level with people. And I was able to go on these long walks, first by myself and then I started asking people to join me. And then finally I thought there's a lot of interesting things that happen when you're on a long walk. And these little walks are two to three hours with a person and you can ask them and you can talk to them. Being on the move, I mean, we're both in front of a computer now and this is a good conversation. But I think there's something about being outside and moving around, seeing some. Seeing the environment change in front of you that keeps the brain active and keeps stimulating in the different ways. And so I have. The podcast is called let's Walk and it's me going out on these long walks with creative people. Very similar to what you do, just mobile.

[Interviewer]

I've listened to your episodes and they're fantastic. How do you see now as a summary of a man who's approaching his 50s? What would you like to share and distill to the new generation? We talked about adaptability and resilience. What are the findings for the future of creativity?

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Thesis for the podcast is I think first of all that everyone is creative and I think we split the world into creative people. And then with that comes the assumption that there are non creative people, which I've never met a person that is not creative. I have met a lot of people who've been told that they're not creative. And I've met a lot of people who believe that they're not creative. But I've never met a person who's not creative. And then the second part of this is I think all creativity is connected. If you talk to, and this is why I'm talking to all sorts of people. I'm talking to authors and actors and directors. Everyone, when they're making something, goes through a very similar journey. There is the beginning steps where you don't know where you're going, where you have all the doubt. There is the middle part where you have something but you're not sure if it's any good. And then there's the end part when you release it and it's different to what you expected. And then you can get more, more granular. But everyone goes through the same journey. And I think as an extension of the fact that everyone was creative, I think we also have this narrative that everyone should be that everyone, whatever their creative journey is, that's the extent of their creativity. And I think everyone, once you learn the creative process, I think you can apply it to all sorts of different things. And so for advice for anyone is first of all is to just get started. And it doesn't really matter what you're doing in the beginning. It's not going to be very good. If you keep going, it's going to get better. And if you keep going further, it's going to be great. And if you don't quit, you will end up with something that you're proud of, and that's pretty much a guarantee. But not quitting might be many years, but it's still, it will be something that you made that nobody else could have made. And I think whether it's then successful or not, but that is the ultimate expression of being human.

[Interviewer]

When you said it earlier, today is the best day there is to get started, to do things. You live and breathe your philosophy. You are testament of what's possible despite the cards you've been dealt. And you've done incredible things. So I really cherish the opportunity to have our conversation today. And I can't wait what you do next with your projects to come because quite rightfully, tell us when they're ready.

[Hali Thorlifsson]

Thank you so much. Thanks for the conversation. It was great to meet you.

[Interviewer]

Thank you. Foreign.

[Radim Malinich]

Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions and suggestions. So please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinj. The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 Million Bikes Podcast. Thank you and I hope to see.

[Interviewer]

You on the next episode.

[Radim Malinich]

If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding, and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle, including an ebook and audiobook to make the content accessible wherever.

[Interviewer]

You are and whatever you do.

[Radim Malinich]

To get 10% off your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the code podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.