Radim Malinich (2:43)

My conversation with Kyle Wilkinson.

Interviewer (2:50)

Kyle, how are you? Are you doing mate? It's great to see you again.

Kyle Wilkinson (2:53)

Now then, mate. I'm very well, thank you. Very well. How are you?

Interviewer (2:56)

Yeah, I'm Grand. Welcome to 2026. How was your Christmas?

Kyle Wilkinson (3:01)

Oh great. Full of mince pies, full of beer, the usual standard issue.

Interviewer (3:05)

You've had a busy year, especially Q3, summer, autumn, it was.

Kyle Wilkinson (3:10)

It were pretty hectic. Yeah. One of the. The biggest time pressures I think I've put myself in in my entire career. Yeah. So if it were an interest, that's.

Interviewer (3:18)

Exactly the reason why I wanted to have you back, because we're going to celebrate you being the guest number one and a guest number 98. But it's great to have you back to put focus on. On your version of daring creativity and how we do that forever. Because what you created with the latest pop up, when you've created with House of Thrills, it's been incredible. And the show is about pursuing one thing that you would otherwise regret not starting. And you are absolutely one of the people, if not one of the very.

Radim Malinich (3:46)

Few people doing it right now, building.

Interviewer (3:49)

Potentially the next, building your future, building something that it's of your own and something that no one's asked you to do. And it's taking a lot of effort, energy, money, resources to do. Oh, my God. I mean, I hope that you are proud of what you created because it's been. There's been quite something to watch. So let's rewind it to the moment when you realized, okay, I'm gonna do something quite as important as a pop up in 90 days.

Kyle Wilkinson (4:18)

Yeah. So, I mean, the. The whole journey of House of Thrills so far has been a little sidestep away from my other studio. And I always wanted to bring something to the world that people could visit. Because I think with House of Thrills, what I'm trying to build is a creative world and a sandbox that allows me to play in, but is a place that can provide art and design to the wider community that might not necessarily go to a space like an art gallery. And the reason for that is they're often put off because of the atmosphere that they have or that they're. They're almost slammed for not understanding the pieces that are on the wall. And what I'm trying to build with House of Thrills is an alternative option to that. And I decided early on that it needed to have our space at some point, and that'd be a bit. That'd be our pop up. But earlier on in the year, I went all in on it and said, right, we need to do this. It needs to be before the end of the year. And I didn't want to hit the Christmas madness that November and December brings, so it had to be before October. This was back in, I think, June, July, and I made that, made that decision and then went all in 90 days to come up with a concept, come up with the. Find the space, create the artwork and then promote it and actually get people to it. Yeah. So it turns out 90 days is not a very long time. Yeah.

Interviewer (5:45)

So that moment when you've decided, okay, this is going to be 90 days, this is going to be a show and I need to work it all out, what was that drive behind it?

Kyle Wilkinson (5:55)

Yeah, I think it's. It's a mechanism that I've used a few times in my career that I think the creative sector is rife with ideas that never come to life. Everybody has them, but then bringing them to life as we know and executing them is the most difficult part of the ideation process. And throughout my career, what I've tried to do is put these constraints on these things so that you have to get yourself out of them scenarios. And I think I've. I've given examples of that on various parts of my career where I've done things that I've never done before for clients and for projects that the idea is, is grounded in logic and it's a good idea and actually that is the right idea. But the execution side of it is a little bit of an unknown, an impossibility. But I do have a strong belief in that if you put yourself under that pressure, you will find a way to out of it. I liken it to this career and this industry and life for a generalization is almost like a rainforest. It's a very busy and crowded space and you've got to be willing to put yourself into kind of them dark spots, them unknown spots, and sit within that dark space for a little bit to reach above the canopy to the light and grow out of that problem that you've got that you don't necessarily know how to do it. And that's my philosophy on creativity, is that not necessarily just resting on what you know, that you've got to be willing to sit in them shadows for a little while to then grow to that next level. And that's exactly what I did with this, is giving yourself that 90 day constraint. Whilst I didn't know whether or not it were going to work out, I knew I'd have something at the end of it. And then you work and strive to make it the best, very best it can possibly be. And. And that doesn't come without its toll. It was a lot of time and it was a lot of effort, but I think the result of it gave me something of a springboard to get onto version 2 and the next event and the next thing, because it's. We sometimes build these things up into big tada moments in those careers that this one thing is going to be that detonation point of that's going to send us into the stratosphere. And I don't think that's really ever the case. It can be in few isolated situations, but the majority is that compounding effect of momentum and doing things. And that's why I wanted to put a time constraint on it.

Interviewer (8:19)

What you said really beautifully is that the industry is full of ideas that never happen, but you create that urgency for yourself. Because how many times it's so easy to just give yourself another month, another week, another year, another this, another that. Right, so. And the sense of urgency that you created for yourself, did it come with regrets? Did it come with oh shit, what have I done?

Radim Malinich (8:41)

Why?

Kyle Wilkinson (8:43)

I think it does in the moment, it's easy to say with hindsight that no, but in the moment, yeah, there were certainly points where I regretted even doing it or questioned whether or not I were doing the right thing. And I think that's only a certain response to something like this. Because the time constraint is one thing, but then the, the financial implications of it as well is when you're putting your own money into something that effectively is not guaranteed a return and wasn't really planned to have a return from a, from a start. This is a brand activation, so to speak. So when you're putting your own money into it and you're thinking, I am turning down projects, I'm turning down work to work on this thing, and at the same time setting fire to a bank account, is this the correct thing to do? And then at points you do regret it, when there's a little curveball in the, in the road that costs more money and costs more time than you anticipated, you go, why am I doing it? How do I get out of this? But that's just another level of pressure that allows you to not stop, not give up like you often do with, like, it's so easy to give up. There is no way through this apart from forward and absolutely smashing it. And it's, that's not easy though, that it comes with a mental pressure and an emotional toll.

Interviewer (10:00)

You've heard yourself publicly accountable because you've made it very well documented about what you're doing, how you're doing it, how, how soon it's coming. But I'm realizing that for those who may have not seen your show or potentially see you documenting what you've done, let's put a bit more color into the concept of what you actually created. Like what was the show about and why did you even settle that theme?

Kyle Wilkinson (10:21)

Yes. So the whole premise of the show is around our addiction to dopamine and social media and validation. I wanted to pick a thing that we could. The work that I create is predominantly pop art, but I do want the. Some of the work to have a satirical edge because then allows it to have depth and social commentary. And that was. It felt really pertinent for the time. And I wanted to create something with House of Thrills, that these are chapters of work and bodies of work that can be different from each iteration. And in this one, I wanted to create a world that people can. Is a little bit more accessible from an artistic standpoint. So it's not just about coming in, chin rubbing, looking at a canvas on a wall and pondering over something deep and meaningful. Obviously you can do that if you want to and that's how you enjoy it. But for a lot of people, they don't go into galleries because they're scared of not understanding something and then being judged upon that. So I wanted to build a world where it felt fun and accessible so that if you liked the work or didn't like the work on the wall, you could still leave saying you had a good time. And that. That was the whole premise. So linking this link in this. This subject matter of dopamine and validation and addiction to. To new things that we don't necessarily notice that are addictions and damaging. We've got large graphic works of medicine and pills and a skull that's got heart eyes that's called Light to Death. But packaged up in that is. The gallery is themed like a pharmacy with nurses that greet you at the door and check you in and put a medical wristband on you and make it a little bit more immersive as an experience. So it's not just coming into a silent white walled room and then go and figure it out for yourself. It's a little bit more. You do literally go on a little bit of an experience and a journey within the. Within the show. So.

Interviewer (12:15)

Well, it's really interesting because obviously I know. I know the theme. Obviously we talked about it prior to the launch about how is the social commentary. And it was just now when I actually realized there's another layer to this because dopamine is such an important part of creative life. Not it's just a social commentary. Like we just. We've created outside sources of dopamine. Obviously we Are we are very well throughout what the years. We are very well responsible for the levels of dopamine that we can actually administer to ourselves by creating work, by creating things that make us feel alive, make us feel like we've got a sense of growth, a sense of accomplishment. So did you feel your own levels of dopamine and cortisol. Cortisol rising from.

Kyle Wilkinson (12:59)

Yeah, I recognize it within myself. Is that one of the. I'm somebody that chases that hit but through different kind of formats. The minute the social media is the one that provides that instant thing to a lot of people and it doesn't give much depth or kind of reward beyond that instant gratification. But I do realize that that part of this show has an irony to it, given that I was sharing the majority of the journey on social media and the fact that part of it is me chasing down another dopamine hit of whatever that achievement is in my career and the work and building something. And that is what I constantly chase is that next thing which is in part tied to a huge dopamine hit because it is rewarding when you, when you do these things and you know the adrenaline of. And cortisol that keep you awake at 3 o' clock in the morning worrying about all the little intricacies of the show and is something going to turn up on time? Is this going to work? How do we do that? What's the logistics look like? All them things are things that I, I know that puts me in the best possible situation to create. I know that it doesn't do for. For others, for, for some others anyway. But the situation that I put myself in regularly is, is I know that that's the best way of me working, even though it's not necessarily the most pleasurable at times.

Interviewer (14:22)

But yeah, is there an underlying thing with dopamine because I take House of thrs. Is there dopamine in there or was it just something that sparked your imagination and thought like okay, I'm going to create a show about dopamine.

Kyle Wilkinson (14:34)

I think, yeah, you can draw the parallels between the two being dopamine providing that hit and excitement and House of Thrills. But really there were no joining of the dots in that situation. It was just purely what idea have we got that we can expand upon a multiple, multiple pieces of work as well as bring and build into a world that we can theme it as a shop rather than a gallery. So it has a little bit more of a pop up shop vibe as opposed to a gallery vibe. And then give me Something that can be built into a world of the kind of how we promote that through the medical teams. So we've got elements of me in a medical gown within the promo. We've got the Kerry, the. The face of the clinic, which is what the show was called with. She's a model and actress that I photographed so that we could use her as the face of the show. And what that allows is it's. It becomes its own brand of, of ip so that the clinic is one show from House of Thrills. And then I can then build that world and pop that up in various locations and then that can be its own idea and its own living ecosystem as a thing. And that's what I wanted to do. And the clinic and the. The whole theme felt like the most topical of the time amongst the. All the other ideas that I'd got kicking about. So I went down that road. But that were a difficult choice because obviously the other ideas that I've got, they. I still think that they're valid and good and they're going to come in future, but they're, they're something that, that can be built upon. But it's just something that I felt could be more, more on of its time in 2025.

Interviewer (16:16)

I'm going to tweak your quote from earlier. It says ideas that never happen. This is ideas that will definitely happen. But before we get onto the dopamine as an outcome of your work, let's talk about cortisol and stress and planning because it takes a lot of self discipline. You made a noise about it saying, hey, this is what I'm doing. And in some way I think it's a fantastic way of like not having anywhere to hide, makes you get that thing done right. How did you stop yourself from freaking out and going, okay, the clock is on. I've got 90 days. What the hell do I do? How do I do it?

Kyle Wilkinson (16:49)

I think you've got to bring a little bit of structure to it, so you've got to allow yourself that freedom to create, but allocate time for you to do certain tasks or try and do that because it will always be ever evolving as a, as a, as a timeline, given the constraint and the pressure that's there. But what I did was block out time saying, I've got six weeks to do the work, I've got this to do this, this to do that, and then block it out where you can. Then do the logistics and break it out. Try and come up with a bit of a plan first and Foremost, unfortunately, then curve balls will come. And as an example in this scenario, I thought I had 12 weeks to do the whole kind of design of the show, the work of the show, and I had to move the timelines, I had to sort of frame us out to get the logistics in. I would recommend anybody getting the logistics done first because they were the thing that were the hardest. But when I phoned the framers up, the framers wanted six weeks. So that, that halved my production time instantly and that, that threw a curveball and an immense amount of stress, especially when they were at the other end of the country where I were getting them done as well. So they weren't just down the road. But in terms of managing it from an emotional standpoint, I think it's. I think I'm. I'm quite used to doing this in the sense that I've through a little bit of experience and putting myself in them. Constant pressure situations of doing something new. I've got accustomed to doing it, which is a cheap answer, I appreciate, but I think it's just allowing yourself to freak out if you need to and getting it out of your system. Because that's what I've done in the past is get it out your system. Talk, talk to your partner, talk to a friend or whoever it is. And then once you've voiced these, these fears, these kind of ideas, you tend to figure them out as you voicing them and realize actually, oh, I've come up with a plan for that already. So that's what I tend to do is get it off your chest. It sounds so simple, but it's. So it's avoided half the time through either if you say out loud it's real, or just the fear of saying it out loud in the first place. But it really does help in them scenarios because you will just figure it out as you're talking and use people as a sounding board.

Interviewer (19:07)

It also takes some time to actually get things processed in our brains and actually make sense of them. The pathways are being made as we processing things like how we sleep on it, how we give it time to actually ferment in our brains.

Kyle Wilkinson (19:20)

That's the beauty of doing this in a short space of time that there's. You've always got something to do and something that is a different task. So if it's a creative thing that you're working on that you're stuck on, put it down, put it down, walk away, pick something else up and you will figure it out in the background. And that, that to me Is another benefit to putting the time constraint in is that there's no. I'll just go and sit on my ass for another, for another, for a, for half a day. No, no, I've got to be on with something else. But it'll be a different task. So if you are just thinking about how to get a van from A to B, that is a different task to create in a piece of art. And I find that that helps in that scenario of that you will use the back of your mind or just be sat there figuring it out as you are doing a different task.

Interviewer (20:04)

I've tried to visualize it in my. When we. I mean, I've tried to visualize it in a way that. Imagine that there's a, there's a football and there's 11 of you on the pitch of trying to achieve 11 different things and 11 of you are like basically 118 year olds playing football because they're all running to the ball at the same time. Thanks, brain. They're all running to the ball at the same time and no one's winning, no one's passing. It's just like, how do you separate and go, okay, you lot sit down, let's divide the tasks. Let's divide like how we need to do things and then actually make a plan. Because so many things come to us, so complicated at first, only to realize you tell your partner, she's like, what are you talking about? This is all simple. What are you on about?

Kyle Wilkinson (20:48)

Yeah, and that's, that's why, I mean, firstly, a team of 11 Kyles on a football team. Wow, what a team that would be. But I do think that, that you always can figure these things out, but you just, you either give yourself too much time and you trip yourself up or you kind of forget about it and put it off. And it's just, yeah, talk to people, figure it out, but do other things in there. Some people use running, some people use yourself, cycling, gym, whatever that be, get active, get doing other things and your brain will figure these things out.

Interviewer (21:22)

I mean, yeah, and it's, that's wonderful, I think, and I've been laboring this for quite a bit, like how much more privilege or how much more rewarding that is to actually have time to think about stuff. Because again, 11 Kyles, I mean, that would be a fantastic team. If you say so. But 90 days of cortisol and eating yourself alive by making this happen and realizing you only got six weeks to do stuff rather than 12 weeks. How did you even set up? Like, I Mean, I want to know, how did you curate the show? Because I was expecting something and I got something totally different and I was so excited that it was so different. We'll talk about the detail and everything that you put in the show. But how did you curate it? How did you do it? Because I'm curious.

Kyle Wilkinson (22:06)

So that's what the first task of the 90 days was, to find the space first. So a lot of people would create the work and then go looking for the space. The space came first. So I decided that I wanted to do it in London pretty early on because I think that the intention, and the intention really for the. For the brand is to build something that is. That has scale and that has reach. And London really is the best place for that and especially for the show. So I went looking for places that felt right and dropped on a place in Shoreditch that had a little bit. It had a glass front that had a bit of a look of a medically themed place. It had a few things that I would love to have changed, but you're never going to find something that's absolutely perfect. So I went through the negotiations with the landlord first and got that over the line. Once that was done, it was then time to work on the concept and the kind of core of the body of the work. And once I got the location, I knew that I wanted to tile pieces on the wall in a certain way, so it had a look. And that allowed me to get the scale and size of each piece because I measured it to the wall and allows the show to be a little bit more considered. You're not just doing. I think there's a balance to be done on this, where you've got to create something that ultimately can end up in somebody's home, because that's. You intend to sell these things, or I did anyway. So you've got to create something that's suitable for a home, but then it's suitable for the environment that it's going into to be the show, because the show is. Is the thing that we're working on. And as I went along, I wanted to create various pieces of different sizes and scales that could go in different locations and push myself to do different mediums as well. So the materials that we used in some of the pieces were something that I never used before, and that came as a result of just like working through these. Of what is this piece going to be? How can we do that? One of the pieces is a giant lolly. I knew that part of the show is when you go to the clinic or when you go to the doctors, you were rewarded with a sticker or hopefully as a kid, a lolly. And that were. Part of the theme is that you would have a lolly to enjoy and look at the work. And all these spaces became available thanks to finding that exact space that we're in London in Shoreditch.

Interviewer (24:25)

That's, that's a nice level of detail. I mean, because I know the venue you've chosen. I think there was a, I think there was a salt beef bagel, I think in play as well, in a nearby location. That is still the deal for you because it was near Brick Lane and the famous bagel shop, which, I mean.

Kyle Wilkinson (24:39)

It'S a, it's a legendary, it's, it's life changing. When you get there, everybody who goes to London or doesn't live in London, go, go to Bagel Bake. It's life changing.

Interviewer (24:46)

So how many bagels did you actually manage during the show?

Kyle Wilkinson (24:49)

One for breakfast, one for, for lunch was pretty much the standard issue I used to get depending on what time I got in. The beauty of that place is that it's open 24 hours. So no matter what time I got in, it were a bagel lunch. And then depending on how late I finished it were either.

Interviewer (25:05)

I mean, you can, you can hear people asking, so let's, let's go into the, let's go into the fillings. Is it the same one or what did you do?

Kyle Wilkinson (25:12)

I discovered, right, I'm, I'm obviously from Yorkshire, so I'm stereotypically tight. And what I discovered is the next door did a flat white for four quid and if you go to Bagel Bait, you can get a coffee and the cream cheese bagel for four quid. So that will breakfast and then salt beef all day for anything beyond breakfast.

Interviewer (25:34)

I like it because you just mentioned money and you said I'm tight. But you are not tight with the production budget because how quickly did you realize that, in the words of Ross Kemp, it's going to kick off. We'll be back after a quick break.

Radim Malinich (25:51)

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Kyle Wilkinson (26:38)

All right, Kicked off. Yeah, I, I, I think that that was the, one of the difficult, most difficult things to get my head around and one of the side benefits to doing this show, I wanted to get into the mindset of what it's like when a client comes to me to work on a project and they're spending their money with me. And that understanding now of putting your own money into. I've, I've put my own money into other businesses and, and the studio in the past, but this is slightly different because this is an unknown outcome. And very quickly, very early on when it became the materials that I wanted to use for some of the, the pieces because I'm creating something that I would want to stand up in any gallery within the world and the pieces, the materials that were used were, were very expensive. 24 karat gold. I remember having this conversation on the phone with the like, do you want fake gold or 24 karat gold? I'm like, who would pick fake gold? I cannot honestly say to somebody like, oh, is this real gold? No, it's fake gold. No, it's 24 karat gold. And it turns out rather gold's expensive. News flash for everybody. And yeah, it started to spiral from that point, which were pretty early on and the budget just, yeah, ended up doubling because I took a firm belief that if we're doing it like I do with every project, if you're doing something, you either, you, you either see it through and do it right or just don't bother. The world doesn't need more kind of meh, go and do it properly. And I do believe that is the longevity to creativity because I think there's the lower end of the market, the slot as it's now being branded, that's going to be taken over by IAI and other technologies that's going to come in. I think people are going to seek something that is a little bit more experiential and a little bit more special. So when you start layering in this, this thing spiraled because the material costs. But then when you book in actors to come and to come and work at the show and you want, you want the music to be right, we've got a free bar, you know, all that kind of thing going off, it, it adds up and the budget doubles.

Interviewer (28:42)

Yeah, this is an interesting thing, obviously from an experience. I, I never thought that I would be publishing books. In a way I am, I never thought that I'D be self publishing or creating my own publishing company and spending money on advertising. And there was this element when I realized, like, how much of an ambition there was and how much of a drive to make it happen. Where I was at that time at four books, I was printing my fourth book plus the reprint of the first three. And the printing bill was £55,000, right? For 35,000 books, would I ever imagine that I would spend £55,000 on re. Like, literally, like, okay, there's profits from the book. I mean, it's been highly profitable exercise for a while. And you realize, like, this is astronomical figures, because I think I spent like 800 quid on my first thousand brochures or whatever this was. It did seem like a monumental spend. But again, me talking about the fact, like, have everything adds up, how everything adds up, you know, going to go and spend 55 grand on books that are not proven. You're going to go and grow little by little to get to where you need to be. Because we go through this life and collect the information, influence the inspiration in form of ideas to give us a sort of experience of how to do things. Because as you said, when things started escalating really quickly is that sort of life and work grown. Resilience, that and endurance that go kicks in and says, and realize, I want this to be good, therefore I'm going to step up. And again, being publicly, publicly accountable to this, what was the best outcome of this show? Because you're making that show only once and you put in your right foot forward, right? So I believe, like, when you really strive to do something mega, you always find money, you always find ways to make it happen.

Kyle Wilkinson (30:25)

There's a beauty in the naivety to things when you put yourself in a position of, I don't necessarily know what I'm doing or what I'm getting into, because I think the outcome is often better. I heard something from Noel Gallagher recently and it really hit where you were talking about Don't Look Back in Anger. And he wrote that on a Sunday night or whatever, Just picked up his guitar and wrote it. And he was saying that if he understood the enormity of that song whilst writing it, it would have never been written because he would have put himself too much, under too much pressure to just get it out and to get it right and to meticulously, like, craft every word. He just did it and then put it down, put his guitar down and off he went to pub or whatever he did. And I think there's a beauty in that naivety and the unknown and putting yourself in them scenarios where you can just create freely. And in this, in my scenario is that, yes, I didn't understand getting into it, but if I'd have known at the start, oh, it's going to cost this much money, then that would have probably held me back from doing it, because I would have gone, oh, shit, what if it didn't work out? This is really, like, too much. And you put a contingency in and then you smash through that and it's like, oh, again, we're in a hole here. But it goes back to that earlier point of putting yourself into that hole, into that dark, kind of shadowy area to then allow yourself to grow out of it. And I really do think that. I know that personally, the outcome of the show has been amazing to you. The feedback to have, the response and some of the conversations that I've had as a result of it are great. But personally, the growth that I've had in terms of. From an emotional standpoint, going into another thing like this, I'm planning one of the next challenges for term for 2026, and I feel so much more at ease as a result of doing that, because I've just built that kind of emotional resilience. And I think that that is so important, the resilience that we build emotionally and intellectually in a creative career, because it is difficult.

Interviewer (32:24)

You go. You've gone definitely the extra mile on the. On that chapter. And I love a quote by Don Martel, and he said the last mile is hardly ever crowded because not many people are prepared to go that far. And it's. Is the uncomfortable. Is the uncomfortable like, you not gonna win by doing it easy? Like, we. We have the glorification of the. Of the final reel of the show, reel of like, oh, how did you do that? And then you get to hear all the details about how things nearly didn't happen, how they broke, how they. How they glued together with a duct tape, not just to make the thing be together. And you realize that's what life is about, because we are aspiring to. There's definitely people. I'm sure there's people aspiring to be. No. Right. In another. No. Don't look back in anger. But that wasn't written in an aspiration to write. Don't look back in anger as you described. That was just like, hey, I'm doing my thing. I'm here with my thoughts, and I'm doing it for myself. Because ultimately that's what matters the most. I'm doing it for myself.

Kyle Wilkinson (33:25)

That's the key thing. I came to a realization when doing House of Thrills, when you splitting my time away from the other side of my creative career and life is like, is this the right decision? And you come to a realization that if you won the lottery, what would you be doing? If you had, like, endless funds and endless time to be doing? Whatever, this is what I'd be doing. I'd be building shows and releasing products and creating things. That's exactly what I'd be doing. And I feel really privileged and lucky to be able to do that. But, you know, I've spent years working towards to put myself in that situation. So you've got to firstly create for yourself and then be strategic enough to be then thinking, actually this will work for a broader audience. This can, like, be a brand that can be more accessible to people. You can apply some strategy and business and creative thinking to that. But first and foremost, you've got to. You've got to want to pick the guitar up for yourself and sing the song or create the piece of art or whatever it be.

Interviewer (34:21)

I love what you said earlier is the beauty and naivety because we all fly and it's quite comfortable to fly the flag at the beginning and says, hey, I'm doing this stuff. It's. It's clicking together, but I don't know what I'm doing. And you say to the room of no creatives, and they're clapping like, hey, dude, you don't know what you're doing, but it's looking good. And then you get to the point of like, maybe I should know what I'm doing. Ignorance is not always the excuse for things. And I've gone to the other side of the argument thinking, like, is it a cop out for industry? Like, are we. Are we not. Are we setting ourselves for not looking professional? I don't know what I'm doing. But so thinking you need to know what you're doing. But there is a. The other side of the coin is equally corrosive because when you know too much, you're like, I need the uncomfortable. I need that unknown. I need to work it out. Because, like, knowing the answers doesn't always spur you. If you know how to write the next, don't look back in anger. Would you really write it? Or would you actually try to write something different? And that's my question. Like, do we. Where is that? Where is the peak in between the two. Two sides of the coin on the edge? How much do you want to know because being the beauty and IVT is a fantastic way of being because it actually helps you to open the doors that you didn't even know existed.

Kyle Wilkinson (35:39)

I think it comes down to adhering to your principles that I want to create things of quality with whatever I create and that can that sector agnostic. So I think once you have that grounding route of your own kind of personal beliefs and principles within the work, the work can then go off into any direction that you see fit or would like to search down. And for me, with creativity, especially with, when you get a client brief, if you know the answer at the start of the project, then you're doing it wrong. Because it's not about. Not if you, you're not creating anything, you just replicating something that you've either you've done before, you're resting on your laurels, you're in a certain scenario that you know what you're doing. The whole point of creativity is to create something, to make something. And it's like, it's like knowing the answer to the jigsaw puzzle before you've, you've, you've started. That's not the point of the game. Point of the game is to not know what you're doing and join the dots and create the thing that is right for the, the setting, the project, the target audience, whatever that be. And I think that that is often the thing that's lost within this sector is do you know it's not professional to not know what you're doing? Well, no, you're the expert that is paid to play with a blank canvas. If you put a blank piece of paper down in front of a lot of people, they freak out, create me something. Oh, no, I can't do that. We welcome it. We go, oh yeah, cool. What, what's the constraints? Where's the, where's the edges? Where's the edges to this? Where's, where can we go? Where can we not? And you figure it out and you put it together like a puzzle and, and I think that, so that's the answer for, for me is, is always pointing yourself in, resting on your principles and your experience, but pushing yourself out of your comfort zone to not actually know the answer and the outcome at the beginning because you will get there.

Interviewer (37:31)

You mentioned constraints, and there are no better constraints than a physical materials, physical, physical exhibition that you need to almost narrow down the list of options. So you had a mixture of different pieces. So again, for those who didn't see the show online or didn't, didn't Attend. You mentioned frames and you mentioned frames on the other side of the country. So I would like to know why you've chosen them. But what was the whole sort of idea behind the eclecticness of the show that had so many varied pieces tied together with one theme? But how did you decide on what these pieces would be? Why would you spend money on 24? I mean, you told us why would you spend money on 24 karat gold? But like there were other elements that elevated the show. So yeah, constraints, supplies, suppliers, decisions and limitations, potentially financial and even material resourceful.

Kyle Wilkinson (38:28)

I wanted a body of work that could feel cohesive but that had that kind of oh, I like this, but I don't like that one. But I'm interested in this. And what is this? And bringing my interest into like bringing physical products to life as well as something that is that we're more traditionally used to having a. Having a piece of paper to play with or a canvas. So I created these wooden dopamine sculptures that were. They were very testing to do in that timeframe. But I wanted to represent our addiction to dopamine in this. I called it super dope. And it's like a. One of them is a 50 centimeter in diameter dopamine pill that is. Has that kind of depth to it where it's called the big red pill, which is linked to the matrix. A few people picked up on it, but the. The idea is that the. You're stepping into a world where we've got all these little boxes of likes and filters and dopamine. So it brings together my experience in graphic and in branding in the physical products that I've made in the chairs and the lighting that I've done in the past. It brings together all these skills that I've stacked over the years that I wanted to deploy. So it's allowing. It's not restricting myself to one medium is what I wanted to do with the show because I felt as though that that makes it more immersive, it makes it more accessible for people that might like a particular thing. I. E. If you like sculpture, if you like pieces on the wall, the frames that were purely a quality choice that I. The framers that I used, I used to framing people like Julian Opie's work and they've. They've. And Bella Freud's. These are people that I look up to and. And if I'm gonna get to that level, then why not play at that level at the very beginning and. And to. I sourced them the very best things that I Could use to then use that at my disposable, at my disposal so that I can create the best possible product within the time frame and within obviously budget restraints because that, that does come into it. And then the materials used were both a creative decision. So it wasn't just banging 24 karat gold on these things. 24 karat gold is a link to the depth, to the work. So we're all lusting after likes and validation and dopamine and all these things that we seek. These are sh. These. The dopamine element is the new shiny magpie. The thing that we magpie towards which is traditionally 24 karat gold. Within society, we look at this shiny thing that glistens for centuries and we seek it and we want it and we, we, we want it and need it in those lives. And it's kind of a depth to the work that I wanted to put in that it's there if people want it, but also it looks cool and it can be as shallow as that and that you know that you've got something that's luxury.

Interviewer (41:19)

You've summarized it really well. When you say like you put your foot right obviously where you want to be. You play to that level, you play at high stakes game rather than let's make it work, let's do something about it. Like whatever, whatever goes. Because ultimately that level of achievement and that level of strive gets rewarded by recognition that it's. I mean it looked established, it looked incredible. And I thought I knew what to expect. And I was beautifully surprised by getting so much more because I. And that sounds weird when we say, when we say this as humans, like I didn't expect it and that was my hit of dopamine. That was my like, oh shit. And yeah, it took me a minute to really get. It took me a minute to absorb like how much effort's gone into it and how quickly you did all of it. And the level of detail that you put into this was astounding because I've only like discovered some of the details from the photos afterwards. Because it's a melee, right? Obviously it's, it's a show, obviously lots of people, some people travel from Scotland and far apart. Like it was incredible to see how people, how you brought people together and not in our community. But it was some of the things that are so thought out, so well executed and because they are just a tiny detail but a really important detail. Oh, it took me like a second time to just to relive the show and going like, oh, that's what it all was. That was incredible. So yeah, I mean to have that detail that you've put into it, you've written all the copy like you've created like it was established. I mean that sounds silly to say that but like it wasn't a half assed effort. It was like it was playing a high stakes game and whatever you do with the next, it's already starting on really tall legs rather than trying to walk. And yeah, as you can tell, I'm so happy. I'm so, so, so happy for you that that's what you did and the effort that you put into it because you, yeah, you've created your own game like that's, that's for sure.

Kyle Wilkinson (43:14)

Thanks man. It does mean a lot. It's the, the feedback has been humbling. I never know what to do with a compliment because you want to, you strive to do these things and when they actually pull them off it's for. It's always for other people to say of, of how good or how well they enjoyed it and, and how good they thought it was. I really do appreciate it. But I do think that that's the, the. It's the immense amount of effort that went into it that paid off and, and yeah, don't get me wrong, it's not, it wasn't a healthy process. I want to. It's not a healthy process to put yourself in that under that much pressure. I thrive on it but it's, it's one of those that I have propelled things and accelerated things to a certain point. And I do think that when you skill stack like this you can create different things because I've never wanted to niche down in my abilities and I think that that show would a representation of, of what, what you can do when you get used to like putting yourself in them uncomfortable scenarios. Because that all of it is not something that I've done before. But you put yourself under that again. Coming back to that it must be the very best I can do. And that changes and evolves but that's grounding it in them principles that I believe in, in the work.

Interviewer (44:30)

There's something magical when we can choose our own problems. To be able to choose our own problems makes you already half the level of cortisol and stress because on client projects you have to deal with the constraints given to you. Whatever, whatever the work needs to be plugged into, whatever we need to do with it. And your skill stack as you mentioned is driven by their demand, by their requirements, whereas you can choose your own skill stack. You can actually cherry pick the cure through curiosity and obsession. Like, okay, I want to know this, I want to do this. I want to choose my own problems. Because when I'm dealing with my own problems, as you say, sometimes it's unhealthy, but it's your own problems and it makes me not hate what you do because you're like you're going to see it through.

Kyle Wilkinson (45:11)

And that. And that's exactly why I think pressure is a privilege. It is. Ultimately you're putting yourself in that position that you're under pressure. But what a situation to be in. I've put myself in a position that I can create a show in London under my own steam and do what I want with it. That's a privilege. That's amazing. It's an immense amount of pressure courses. But what a ride. What an experience. And irrelevant of the outcome. The memories that are built from it and the kind of experience and emotional kind of growth from it is worth every step and every painful kind of part of the process. Thankfully, obviously it were reasonably successful. There were no, there were no kind of measure of success on this one. It was what do people kept asking me, oh what. What do you expect from this? I'm like absolutely nothing. Nothing. I hope at the very best that people will turn up and they will enjoy it. That is the bare minimum. I'm not doing this in the as a result of do X and Y will come out of it that that weren't there. I think we've got to be the kind of path that I'm on at the minute is a long term play and it's not something that I'm trying to build a world out with House of Thrills. That's why I've not put it under my own name. I'm trying to build a world out that I can play within. And that involves many chapters and many things that will come out of it. And this is just a. I've raced 90 days is to get to the starting point, get to the start line and then start running.

Interviewer (46:43)

When you create, you created what I call the eternal lesson in staying present. When you, when you don't think about what's beyond the moment, what's beyond the opening doors. Like you just you working, you focus in getting and getting yourself in a state of flow, stressed state of flow. But we get in there because it's so stressful. It's the best way to be because it's the validation like when we think of. And I again I think I don't think there's an episode of this podcast when I don't talk about self acceptance as a part of creative work because surprise, surprise, it's a chapter in a new book and talking about self acceptance. But when we celebrate our uniqueness, when we think about how do you stick to your narrative? And when you focus on your narrative, that helps you to focus on what you're doing. Because at first, when we are younger, more selfish with your ideas, egocentric, you're like, hey, do you like this? Because you need that immediate validation to say, yes, carry on. Whereas when you get much further down the road, you're like, I don't give a shit what people think, because the first person that needs to meet needs to make sense to is me. And then we see what happens next because it's not sociopathic way of working. Like, I don't care what people think because ultimately you, you still will have some sort of feedback. And you say, and you said earlier that you don't know how to take a compliment because you are still processing, like, how this works and what I'm doing with this and finding your own way through. So that delayed gratification, it's a skill that comes with time. Because, yeah, you can't learn it, you can't teach it, you can't tell people to be that it's something that you.

Kyle Wilkinson (48:14)

Pick up as you go. I think it's really important. I think it's the situation that you've got to hit your own bar, set yourself that bar again. The principal side of it, if you hit your own bar and level of quality, then it doesn't really matter what people think. If you feel that it's the right work for you and what you're creating, I fully accept that. Some people come in. I have had polarizing reviews of one of the popular pieces that sold quite a few of the giant skull, which is called Light to Death. Somebody so beautifully described the piece of being, of its time. And being really has a good balance between satirical and dark humor and of its time for kind of the social commentary that it is. And they understood, they said it better than I, I could, and I created the piece of work. And then the other polarizing view is, why the fuck would you want a skull on your wall? And I like, it's like, that's. Both are correct, both are valid. Both we create. We, we create platforms. And this is the beauty of it. When people, People often ask, what. What do you worry about what people think about your work? And to me, it's like we create the platform for opinion so we create a piece of work for to allow people to allow others to have an opinion. I would so, so much rather be on the pitch playing the game than being the stands throwing the opinions about I want to be on the game. I want to be on the pitch playing the game every single time. And sometimes I will play badly or some people will think I shouldn't be playing and that's fine because I'm still going to play. And, and I think that once you hit that bar that only comes from that kind of self. Self confidence. I'm not quite sure what it is but that kind of hitting that bar of I'm going to create this for me and hit a standard that I expect of myself and then if, if that results in a positive or negative outcome, it doesn't really matter. Obviously you're human, you want it to be positive, but it's better that you still play the game.

Interviewer (50:21)

It's interesting when you said you're a human, you wanted to be positive because positive is the positive fuel. But yeah, it's an interesting one to stop me from thinking about 11 Kyle's again, like you want to be on a pitch 11 Kyle's back on, back on.

Kyle Wilkinson (50:34)

It brings the football pitch analogy back. But the. Yeah, it's. I said that more in the, in the sense just to be I suppose real is that you want a response regardless, positive or negative. But if you're going to flip a coin, which side would you rather it land on? I'd rather it land on positive. Yes, of course because the reason, the reason why is not to. To give me the gratification because it's normally, especially in the creative world, if you get a positive response for something you get further momentum that will change your trajectory into a different project. All the things going forward, if somebody constantly pans you work then there's less likely hood of something happening going forward or other people wanting to work with that. We can question that because I think that that unfortunately is why we've got a lot of people on social media that's got clout. I'm going down a different earlier but the social media kind of game where if you've got the kind of validation from others that you will get the work but they're not necessarily the right people for the work. So I understand that part of the scenario is that the people want that kind of social proof that this is good.

Interviewer (51:41)

It made me think of something when you put stuff out, people like it. You're thinking oh, they like my work. They're. They associated with this. They may potentially understood the point. And then you meet them in a social setting and they're like, oh, that's. Is that you who did that thing? Is that you? You're like, yeah, that's me. You're thinking, it doesn't fucking matter, does it? Like, people just think, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, carry on. Whereas it's what you did just show, like, literally puts a focus and a spotlight on the fact, like, how important it is to do this in public. How important is to bring back to the values and to the experiences that we had in the past. Because, yeah, it's so easy to get click, click, click, click, click. I mean, this is a terrible thing of saying, like, likes and, And. And clapping hands or whatever.

Kyle Wilkinson (52:25)

That's what the show were about in terms of not seeking out that validation. Seeking validation through the people around you and the real people that's in your life. As opposed to the kind of faux shiny thing that's why a lot of the pieces in the show had diamond dust on, is that they glint in the light. And they say that you have that magpie effect where you seek out that shiny, shiny thing. And it's like just that visual reminder, a physical reminder within the. That you hang in your. Your. Your house, your flat, wherever you live. That is a reminder that the physical dopamine is so much better than the kind of online thing that we build a world and as minds to think that that is actually what we want. It's very instant but very shallow. And the whole point of House feels going forward is to. To try and build these events that are live events that bring people within the same room. The thing that I'm most proud about with the show in particular is not doing it to the quality and all the kind of nice things that you've said and doing it in the time constraint. It's the feedback on the atmosphere within the room that I'm the most proud of, because that was the most important to me is that you can like the work, you can hate the work. That's indifferent to me. You're entitled to that and you are correct whichever way, but it's the atmosphere.

Interviewer (53:44)

Yeah, I mean, what you're describing is exactly what happened. And I just. I just love that drive of what you created. And it was nice to be part of a tiny smidgen being part of the story. With the partnership with Wax Coffee, where, yeah, we provided hospitality, we did a collaboration on the Kiss of Life Coffee which, as you told me, was stolen quite a lot. Just this band to hear. But again, I think what I see, what I've been doing with my side projects and various sort of capacities is like, how do you start a thing that can be a collaboration, how can be a conversation, how can you do something? Because ultimately sitting at home and complaining that an Adobe cloud has gone from £51 to £52, and then that's the time to cancel your subscription. Yeah, it's not a fucking point of life, is it? Like, it's like, how do you do things that you can actually inspire people, be, build a community and actually bring people together is something that we, once upon a time used to do on a regular basis, whereas now we celebrate it as. As something which is special. So I think what we need to do is just to carry on where we've been with the knowledge we've got now and how we do it. So, Kyle, I was looking forward to this one because I knew there's so much more to talk about. This is the thing that I've been cheering you on from the sidelines and making sure that you've got a support from our side, just to make sure that to get to the other side and making it happen is going to bring us so much kind of reward and relief and validation in what you created. Because through many conversations that you and I had was like, who else is doing anything like this right now in our industry? And the answer was always no one. So to put yourself out there, to spend the money, to. To put, in a way, neck on the line, in a way of like, setting your bank account on fire. What you're gonna remember for years to come is how you make people feel in that room. What you put in that detail, what. What is now, which skulls are now hanging on people's walls? Because too right, there should be skull on everyone's wall. So I'm a big fan. I salute you for what you're doing and I'm so excited for 2026 and beyond, what you can create with this. Because creating your universe, creating your own world is always the most satisfying thing to do. So well done.

Kyle Wilkinson (55:51)

Thanks, mate. I really appreciate it.

Radim Malinich (56:03)

Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions and suggestions. So please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinj. The audio production was done by Neil MacKay from 7 Million Bikes podcast. Thank you. And I hope to see you on the next episode. If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle, including an ebook with and audiobook to make the content accessible.

Interviewer (56:47)

Wherever you are and whatever you do.

Radim Malinich (56:49)

To get 10% off your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the Code podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.