← Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
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- [00:02]
Radim Malinag
Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time or you're a regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provides them with value. So thank you for being here and for helping out. Thank you.
- [00:38]
Karina Lindmeier
I feel like when you force something, it's not coming. Step away, try to focus on something else. Recently I came back to this. It's something that's popping up in my mind quite often. Deity like everything is temporary and I feel like it's so true because every feeling is temporary. So if you feel like you're not going somewhere and you're not getting close to where you want to go, the feeling will go away. But you just have to find your way to get where you want to. So just be patient, consistent, try to find a new perspective and start running even if you're not ready. It sounds very poetic, but it's so true and you have to find your way through your own strategy. So to say, how to find your creativity or how to keep your juices flowing.
- [01:42]
Radim Malinag
Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast. The show about daring to forever explore. Explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radin Malinj. I'm a designer, author and eternally curious human being. I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? Today, I'm speaking with Karina Lindmeier, an award winning illustrator from Austria with a flair for creating vibrant and contemporary digital art. Our conversation explores the tension between commercial illustration work and personal artistic freedom, the importance of authentic community over social media metrics, and how creative disciplines like DJing and cycling parallel the artistic journey. Karina emphasizes staying true to core values whilst navigating the fast paced creative industry, advocating for genuine connections. Her story demonstrates how daring creativity means choosing authenticity, finding inspiration through stepping away from the work itself. It's my pleasure to welcome Karina Lindmeyer. Karina, how are you doing?
- [03:23]
Karina Lindmeier
I'm great. How are you?
- [03:24]
Radim Malinag
For those who may have never heard of you, would you please introduce yourself?
- [03:29]
Karina Lindmeier
Yeah, I would introduce myself as an illustrator and artist specializing in digital illustration with I Mean, how can I describe this? Because it's always funny to describe your own work because I feel like for me something is so obvious. For other people it's not. But I love to mix a lot of colors, shapes, textures, and combine some analog elements in a digital environment.
- [04:02]
Radim Malinag
I've got my first question straight away. You said, I'm an illustrator, I'm an artist. Why are you an illustrator and an artist? Are you just an artist or are you calling yourself illustrator because that's commercially acceptable in the way of attracting new work?
- [04:16]
Karina Lindmeier
That's a good point. How can I describe it? For me, it's important to also consider myself as an artist because I feel like I have to create something for my own artistic freedom and career, so to say, with no rules, no restrictions. And when it comes to illustration work, most of the time it's paid. I mean, we all hope to get paid at the end of the day. So sometimes I'm an illustrator, sometimes I'm an artist, sometimes I'm a dj, sometimes I'm a designer, so. And in the end of the day, I'm Karina and I'm a creative person.
- [04:57]
Radim Malinag
We all really try to understand what is the best way to describe ourselves. I think what you describe with the artistry and being an illustrator, yes, illustrator gets a problem to solve, whereas artists can create their own problem and then solve it and see what we can do with it. We've also dropped a few other hints that you do other things than just the creative work. But we will get to it. Because you're one of my first batch of guests that I'm sort of prodding with this question. When I see your output, when I see your expression, when I see your work that you put out there, I felt it was very fitting match for you to come on and talk about what you do because you're like, this is working, I'm doing this. So daring creativity. If I ask you that question, how do you see the answer?
- [05:41]
Karina Lindmeier
Ooh, that's a good question. I feel like, I mean, lately, of course, you know, my work and for the people who have seen my Instagram or portfolio, I used to post a lot on my socials. Lately I stopped doing this and I feel like for me now it's time to focus more on my own artistic path, so to say. Because the afl, for me as a human being living in this very fast paced world, some things changed and also my. Of course I have to find my creative voice and I have to chase my artistic involvement, so to say. But in the end of the day. I also have to stay true to my core values. And for me, this goes hand in hand with also creativity because my identity and my personality also shape my creativity and vice versa. So, yeah, I mean, it's a very complex topic, but in the end of the day, it's very simple because I don't feel good when I post something I cannot really relate to.
- [06:58]
Radim Malinag
So I'm exploring, I'm letting you work out a life topic. I've been trying to put a lid on what daring creativity means because it means million different things.
- [07:06]
Karina Lindmeier
Absolutely.
- [07:07]
Radim Malinag
And from the message so far, far off, the theme is it's just picking up the brush that you've been avoiding. It's just doing something that you've been avoiding. Something that changes your career because you use two two V's you had. You use the word voice and values. My ears always prick up when I'm like, oh, people got values. Because it's so easy. And that's generalization. Because some people do that, some people don't. It's easy to go with the flow. It's easy. It's easy to say, hey, I love this medium, I love this expression. Someone's going to pay me. Do I agree with everything they do? Maybe not, but I want to work, therefore values are non existent. Their values might be like, oh, I want to do really good work, but there might be sort of beyond that, very little. You mentioned your voice and your values. How do those values shape your approach to your artistry and illustration?
- [08:03]
Karina Lindmeier
I feel like it's. It's a very complex topic, of course, because I feel like when you start or when I started out as an illustrator and I wanted to share my work and get of course, nice clients, nice projects, I wanted to collaborate with a bunch of people. Of course you tend to hop on every trend and you feel like the urge of, oh my God, I have to do this and then I have to post that in. Hopefully someone sees what I can do or what I'm capable of. But in the end, I feel like you will burn out and you will kind of burn yourself down and also your creativity because on one point you have to stop. So I feel it's very important to. Of course you have to start running even if you are not ready. But on the other hand, you should not forget where you're coming from and what you want to achieve in the end.
- [09:01]
Radim Malinag
It beautifully described the way that at the beginning you want to start running, you burn yourself out because it's just learning. The discovery phase is a Magical one, because you don't know too much about everything, which is obviously for good because if you knew too much about everything, you would never start. And I always say, like, burning arm is like touching the stove, right? You're going to find out where the end point is and then try not to get to it too close. But then it really depends on your voice, on your value, on your way of working or like how much you want to put into this. So let's retrace it back a bit. What was the first point of creativity, your way of into that started you to where you are today?
- [09:44]
Karina Lindmeier
I grew up with a very creative mom, so my mom is also very creative and has a very artistic side. So I got massive support from home, doing whatever I wanted to. So I went to graphic design school and I wanted to become a graphic designer. And after a few internships I decided, nope, that's not the way I want to end up sitting in front of my computer all day in like this. I call it the shrimp position, where you, at the end of the day you feel like. Yeah, like a potato or a shrimp because you can't move anymore. So I wanted to find something that is more creative and more where I can have like my own kind of exploration and feel like more in. Feel like more home, so to say, in my artistic sense. So back then it was a bit different than nowadays because the Internet was not such a thing as it is now. So at the end of the day, I hardly had anyone, like a mentor or anyone who really took my hand and showed me things. So I just, of course I knew a few people. But in the end it was like, not something I really forced to have a career as an illustrator because I had no idea what an illustrator is doing. So I ended up working in an agency, but in project management, which is a bonus now because I have an idea about how things have to be delivered, how printing works and all this stuff. And also I really enjoy working in teams. So this was a very nice time back then, working in an agency. Also made a few friends, which is really cool. And yeah, it was more like the management, project management, girly.
- [11:56]
Radim Malinag
So whilst you're doing this, is there, as you describe, around that time when the Internet was a thing where it didn't work the way it did and we didn't have that prevalence of information? Did you have any sort of visual artists or illustrations or sort of visual references that made you feel alive? Because you said something, you said three words which were brilliant. You said, it feels like home. You can't buy that feeling. You can't learn that feeling. I wanted to do something that feels like home. So what was your journey to feeling like home through your work? What did you see? What did inspire you?
- [12:32]
Karina Lindmeier
That's a good point and a good question. I mean, back then I was really, like, drawn to graffiti artists, street art, a lot of stencil work and traditional painting. So I think I was drawn to mostly things I saw in books and magazines or exhibitions. And I mean, of course Internet was a thing or becoming a thing. I'm not that old, but yeah, so I'm a very visual person. So I feel like inspiration can be anywhere, like in nature or you can find inspiration in a city. Stroll or just hanging out with friends.
- [13:17]
Radim Malinag
We'll be back after a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Luxe Coffee Company, the first creative specialty coffee company building a platform to shine the light on emerging global talent with a mission to make a positive impact on a creative industry and beyond. Lux Coffee Co offers exceptional coffee sourced from around the world through ethical and sustainable practices. And you can discover the current range of signature blends and single origins coffee hardware and accessories along with exceptional apparel. At lux coffee.co.uk you can use the code podcast to get 15% off your first order. Where did you grow up? What was your hometown? That immediate inspirations because we can take it offline for a second. When you were growing up, on the way, thinking, I've got creative mom, I want to be a graphic designer. Are you surrounded biography too much in Austria?
- [14:23]
Karina Lindmeier
No, but I feel like it was maybe more part of this, of the friends and the music I was listening to. I grew up in a very small village in Austria, so there was nothing like, really nothing. There was like one post office and one supermarket. That's it. And a lot of sheep and cows and animals. So it was very scenic and very beautiful, but there wasn't really much to do.
- [14:55]
Radim Malinag
Yeah, as you described, living in a small village with one post office and one supermarket. What is the influences that come in through your. No, through your door, through your ears, for your eyes.
- [15:07]
Karina Lindmeier
Mostly listening to radio, I would say. So this was like a big part of getting in touch with new music and yeah, friends, I would say, like hanging out with friends, getting in touch with new, I don't know, music genres and all the stuff. So. And then of course I had to move because of graphic design school. So I moved to the city of Linz. And yeah, here I am now, still living here.
- [15:37]
Radim Malinag
I like that you described it you didn't want to be a shrimp. You don't want to be like a potato. At the end of the day, you open it up. You got into illustration. You were finding your ways. As you said, being a project manager helped you to understand how certain things should work, because at least you got to actually see the other side of how work exists. Because sometimes you can be a very novice illustrator. Thinking, I am here, people commission me for who I am, therefore, like, I'm guiding the process, only to realize there's a lot of checkpoints that you need to go through to actually deliver something on track. So when you made that decision that you're going to be an illustrator, did you have a particular style of work? Did you go through that phase, like lots of illustrators going, hey, I'm going to work with Coca Cola, I want to work with Nike, I'm going to work. Did you have that sort of dream list of brands that are potentially morally quite questionable?
- [16:27]
Karina Lindmeier
Not really. I mean, when I started drawing again, it was mostly black and white in a sketchbook, and it was totally different from the work I do now. So I really, when I finally took the leap to focus solely on my illustration career, I had to develop and explore a lot. So back then, I started drawing just for fun in my sketchbook back then in my agency days. And so one of my colleagues saw what I was doing, she was like, hey, we should put this on this product and have you thought about sharing your work online? And I was like, why not? So this was also the time when Instagram started, like, becoming a thing here. So I started to share my work online. And then, of course, I got some nice feedback. Also, I met people online and this was kind of this, yeah, early start of having found my community, so to say. And I'm a big fan of community.
- [17:35]
Radim Malinag
The word community is interesting and especially valuable in this instance because there's a lot of chat about community now or start your following and have your community. Whereas I would like to question the effectiveness of the community because it's nice to have followers and someone that sort of chips into your conversation or puts likes on your stuff. Whereas the early beginnings did really feel like community because everyone was equal, everyone got those tools at the same time, and therefore it was all being worked out in real time. So the people that you met at that time, are you still in touch with them? Are you. Because the reason why I say I'm still besties with people I met on MySpace, I have met a group of people on MySpace and we spent about 10 years doing work together in various forms. You know, DJs, music producers, designers, entrepreneurs, in a way, early entrepreneurs. And it was really interesting because that was really true because I think there was the leveler. I think the level of everyone's in the same, like, oh, it's MySpace. What are you going to do with this? Oh, nice to see you. So how was it for you at those earlier times?
- [18:45]
Karina Lindmeier
Yeah, something similar you described. Sometimes it's really hard when it comes to talking about social media nowadays, because for me, it's. I don't care about numbers or followers, I care about connections. And this is something which is really important for me. I don't care about. I mean, you can make like a huge following, but in the end it means nothing if you have nothing where you can connect with someone and when people cannot connect with what kind of story you have to tell or what kind of things you want to share, or your art or illustration work. So I feel like we really have to. But at least that's just my opinion. But I feel like we have to step back now from this heavy influencer thing. Also, some artists are more like influencers now, which is really difficult also for people to watch because at the end of the day, you never know. Is this like a paid thing? Or are people already doing this for a living? Or what's the story behind everything?
- [19:56]
Radim Malinag
It's interesting because I always believe that everything that was started for one purpose, then got taken over by society at large and it's changed the usage. And I think that's just the development of us as a creative human being. Here's the tool. This is what you use it. Ah, can I use it for this and that? I mean, that shows how progress and movement and in creativity and development and quite rightly so. So what Instagram, once upon a time used to be we used to post pictures of bagels and dogs and whatever, and all of a sudden someone said, hey, maybe I should post my work, and they paved the way for something else. But when Instagram came up, no one really thought that there would be influences, that there would be anything like this. But in terms of, like, creative humanity, like, are we really pushing it in the wrong direction?
- [20:43]
Karina Lindmeier
Yeah, I feel like it's very interesting now also to just watch what will happen next, because of course, it's very hard for people to make a following now or to get your work seen by the right people because it's becoming more and more competitive every day. So it's very hard to get the work seen by the right people. But at the end of the day I feel like, I mean, I decided for myself, I really stick to this and that's what I feel comfortable with. I really care about true connection and not numbers and I don't care about the likes and the shares and whatever. At the end of the day, all that counts for me is did the right person see my art? Or if I. Sometimes I share some tips and tricks and it makes me really happy if people slide into my DMs afterwards and say, hey, thanks for helping me or how did you do this? And can you help me with that? I feel like that's what all our community is all about. And it's not about having the best friend deal in my kind of business.
- [21:58]
Radim Malinag
I do can cloud people's judgment. If you're a chasing brand deal, it's like basically the equivalent of in the past chasing the brands that potentially can make you look like you've been accepted by all, commissioned by a big brand. And obviously that means that your career is some sort of validated in certain way. But you said it's quite competitive out there and it's hard to get work. And I want to talk to you about this next because you get to see a lot of posts from lots of illustrators or people who've been doing the one thing over and over again. And I mean that just in an observational term. This is their own opinion. Do you feel that people are sometimes a little bit too preoccupied with their signature style and hoping that more or less the artistry will keep their longevity? Or is there a necessity for actually diversifying, adapting and finding new opportunities? Because there is work out there, There is opportunities out there. As I said earlier, we've got more tools and knowledge and wells of information how to find job next the next part. So just getting back to one question. How important is to be stylistically ownable, have a signature style and is there importance for needing to diversify?
- [23:12]
Karina Lindmeier
Hard question. To be honest, I feel like for me I can answer it for only for myself. Like for me it's really important to have my style and own my style and really also develop my style. And that's what I want to get hired for. Like the things how I translate something into my illustration work. And of course there are people who have several styles and they can really like be good in different kind of styles. But for me, I'd say I really want to focus on my one style.
- [23:54]
Radim Malinag
Looking at your work is developing, it's constantly changing, it's doing something of course, you've got your ownable signature pieces, but if someone is in the position, looking at your work, going, oh, this is really somewhere now. And I'm, let's say, starting out my own career, my creative style, how much patience, development, curiosity goes into creating something like this in this particular way you find in your expression. So let's take me on a journey of getting lost with brushes and styles and tools and all of that stuff.
- [24:26]
Karina Lindmeier
Yeah, it was draining. For sharing my work and getting clients or attracting clients, I, of course, tended to do what everyone else was doing, like drawing very sleek and very flat, very muted in colors. I would say mostly people, or like this topics where people can easily relate and connect. Or I felt back then they can, but after some times, I really felt, okay, that's not me. That's not it. So I was, of course, looking for the next thing which I can adapt or which I can involve, so to say. And I would say the pandemic back then really helped me, which is not easy to say because maybe you heard me talking about this before, because this really changed, like, my style and also where I wanted to go as an illustrator. So I found, like, this challenge. It is all about the challenge. Gives you, like, one photo every week, and you can do whatever you want in whatever style you would like. It wasn't the easiest time for. Also, not for me on a personal level, but on my artistic journey, I would say it was a really nice time because I had a lot of time to focus on my style, on what I wanted to create. And I found, like, this very nice community on Instagram, the still Here still life challenge to explore. And then you have one week to post your artwork without any pressure. And there was a big community. And there. It was so nice to see people having different perspectives, different approaches, different kind of. Yeah. How they interpreted the still life thing. And then it started to become more about food for me, which was also very nice. So I kind of explored, like, this niche, which is now like my. I really love drawing food and still life illustration. So I tried to really focus on letting loose, exploring new brushes on my iPad. So without any client restrictions, without any pressure of I have to post this because I don't know, otherwise my Instagram will die. So I found, like, a very secure environment within this community where I could solely focus on just exploring and trying out new things.
- [27:12]
Radim Malinag
I like that story. And I think there's no harm in saying pandemic was okay for me, because somehow the creativity being the leveler in our industry or in our community has proven to be derived perfect escapism. You had a lot of people who were very lost, people who were not sure what to do with themselves. But the creativity was that glue, that sort of that conduit for us to do something with it. And, you know, the first or last person to say they had a good pandemic, I mean, it was not, obviously, sunshine and ice cream for being a creative person. But I think this is the moments where creativity really can unlock more positivity. If you had WhatsApp in a pandemic, like, everyone's a comedian. Like, there was memes flying, like 20aminute. Like, we doing something, we're using creativity even outside, just to sort of pass on expression and just to make ourselves believe we're okay, make us, like, just get through this. And I'm looking at your work as you talk about the sort of. The initial stuff and then like, where the colors come in. And I found a quote which said, no risk, no magic. And I think that is partially like the element of daring creativity. Like, doing the same thing over and over again, cooking the same meal over and over again is not going to exactly yield different results. That's paraphrasing Einstein's quote. But I love that you had that element of creative community that made your sort of intrigue and style go into life and food. And you do food illustration just exceptionally well. Does your food illustration also translate into your real life? Are you a foodie? Do you. Do you. Does it go hand in hand?
- [28:56]
Karina Lindmeier
Yeah, I would say yes. But this reminds me of a very fun situation I had with Rick Ostenbruck, because I met him in London recently and we had breakfast together, and he was like, you are in Food Illustrator. Why is your plate looking so sad? Come on. Of course, it's not always about arranging my own food in a very nice way, but of course it's fun to. Especially when I host some friends and I create some dinner parties or some social gatherings. I really love to implement some colors and arrange the food in a nice way.
- [29:39]
Radim Malinag
Rick is a good friend of mine, and I can totally hear that comment from his accent. But you're right. I mean, not everything should be turned up to 11. So let's talk about more food illustration and still life. There's an intrigue because what does go through your mind in a way of making these extraordinary situations even more extraordinary.
- [30:04]
Karina Lindmeier
Something that really excites me about food, especially food illustration or food in general, is something that also goes back to me to connection and sharing something and also community, which is like having, I feel like eating in general or having a nice meal with someone is for me it's the highest form of treating yourself. And it's a very intimate, intimate time because you nurture your body, you, when you have a conversation with your friend, you're exchanging ideas or even if you have dinner with a stranger, you open up and you try to connect and food is like something that is for me like the, the connection between different cultures, people and yeah, it brings people together and it's something that brings me joy and I want to translate like the joy and the energy and the connection and community into my artistic take on full illustration. So to say this is great.
- [31:15]
Radim Malinag
You say I believe in a fast paced world, but what you describe and what you're creating is very much that pause. It's like you're looking at, I mean, especially when you come in real life to a beautiful spread in a beautiful place. It's not time to start rushing, is it? It's the start is exactly what you describe as an intimate experience. You've got time to connect with people and yet it's very much the antidote to busy. And I think that there is a lot in food, especially innovative cooking, that just brings those sort of emotions and feelings to us. One thing I want to ask you, when it comes to sort of community connections and you know, exchange of ideas, you're quite prolific working with Adobe and again, to some people that might be like impossible kind of journey or bridge to cross. How did that all come about? Like how did you become, you know, a part of the, I would say ambassador team or like how do you get to it? Because yeah, I think that could be quite value to some people, as you know.
- [32:17]
Karina Lindmeier
Yeah, I feel, I think it's important for me to mention because I feel like Adobe is always open to people. If you just want to reach out, please go for it and do it because they're always looking for exciting and keen people. So it started for me also back then during the pandemic when they reached out to me if I wanted to be a guest on Adobe Live, it was live from the sofa back then. So I had the opportunity to share my work, share my story and yeah, present it to a broader audience. And before I got invited to this, I also applied. Now I remember I also applied for something which was called the. How was it called where they fund you for one year to focus on your passion project. And I made it to the last round, I think, or the last two rounds. I don't know. And so I got in touch with the people from Adobe and they knew that I was into illustration. So they asked me if I would like to test their software for the iPad, like the Adobe Fresco, which I'm still working with and which I love. And yeah, that's why it all started to work out for me as well as an Illustrator, because I had the opportunity to share my artistic view with a broader audience. I also had the opportunity to meet incredible people, which also made me more secure and feeling okay, I'm in the right place. Because also other people have the same struggles or sometimes they feel like, yay, I can do everything. And the other day you feel like, oh my God, I'm invisible and nothing will happen. So at the end of the day we all have the same thoughts and same creative struggles to. Yeah, to make it through the day. So this was really a nice experience and still is.
- [34:30]
Radim Malinag
I like that you said Adobe are always open because on, on the outside it can seem like there's just a certain group of people showing up over and over again. But you've got companies that do have various people who show up for them over and over again because they've already went through those steps and they've got that sort of ninja, like black belt ninjas kind of skill about the software. Obviously they're trust have been proven and there is always space for more. Because when you think about can seem daunting to make that first contact. But whenever I see posts online, people go like when people say, hey, you know, ask. I'm like, yeah, 99% of things I ever got in life is because I asked, I asked for everything. And that's the best part, because when you ask, you are driving yourself to your next destination. You actually are asking for the right opportunities. Because if you said in your, in just this answer, you said, oh, sometimes I feel invisible and nothing's coming. But there's nothing better than actually just going and starting walking towards the thing. If you make a silly analogy about a bus, the bus is not showing up. What you gonna do? You're gonna sit still or you're gonna start walking to your destination. Of course you're gonna start walking and you never know as to how you get there. So there's never been more important part about the differentiator between people who get stuff. You've got one like 0.1% of people who are so amazing that the opportunity is just following them. And then there's the masses of people who go, there's doors, there's a door. There's a door. In fact, let me invent a door and knock on that door and see if that door can open something for me. Because I believe you live in such magical times where you can do whatever you want. You can actually amplify what you do. And that difference between being successful and unsuccessful is potentially one door away from where you are right now. So it's a lot of averages. Absolutely. You mentioned when you started working with Adobe that you felt more secure. How prevalent were doubts back then? And are the doubts still present or do you feel more secure and more rooted?
- [36:39]
Karina Lindmeier
I feel like it was more like a matter of. Because I got to meet so many people and so many different people and different creatives like not only just illustrators but also photographers, type designers or 3D people. So it was really nice to see that we care about the same thing which is creativity but we all have to face like the same things in at the end of the day we're all human beings and we all have to. We all have the same thoughts or kind of the same thoughts. We all have the same yeah things we have to figure out in life. And I feel when you start out and you want to make the first steps and then of course everything feel like, feels like it takes forever or it's I will never make it. So you have this self doubt thoughts and also setbacks which are important in the end but it's always easier when you have people or you feel like you're in a safe space and in the community and when you have like people which you can ask for advice or have a quick call with or I don't know, write a nice email and say hey can we chat? Because I don't know how to deal with this situation, for example. And then of course it's hard to take the first step but in the end you likely find out that the people are very nice and they are very open and they of course want to help you because you share like the same passion and it's all about passion and creativity.
- [38:20]
Radim Malinag
So tell you what I mean it's such beautifully said because it's opening yourself up to more shared experience. One of the advice I have come to conclusion recently too is that when you feel like, let's say you fear certain things, you're anxious, you're insecure, you speak to other people only to realize that you're braver than 99 of them because you create your own measure your sort of XY diagram of the other says experiences. And this is my Anxiety. What's my level in between? I'm trying to make point really. I'm trying to paint a really shitty info infographic in the air. But it's that experience when you share your problems, when you don't hold them back and you actually put it all out there. I think it's so liberating because all of a sudden you create and trust in other people. You create and trust in you and you don't have to remember anything. This is the best part. Oh, have I told anyone I'm scared of this? I haven't told anyone because you go with the flow, you kind of go with the, the feeling of creativity, daring that little bit more, you know what, I might put myself out there. And you don't necessarily feel that what's going to come back to you is going to be a. But when it does come back to you, liberating, you feel like, oh, I can focus on the next step. Which I think gives me an excellent segue into DJing because we talk creatively about insecurity, but I told you about my DJing from my 16 to 21 and I didn't realize how freaking brave I was. Playing music I wanted to listen to for people who hated me for most of the time when I look back I'm like, how did I get away with this? Because with DJing that immediacy of you put a record and you know exactly what's going to happen. Like people even love it, hate it, you know, some people will not understand it and it's the immediate feedback. So when we sit at the most in our homes and working our illustrations or our creative stuff, you start preempting, thinking, will someone like it? Will someone unlike it? But with DJing you've got almost nowhere to hide. Almost literally nowhere to hide. So take me to the path of you becoming a dj. What's your experiences, both the public immediacy and the non existent fears. Because you've got nowhere to hide.
- [40:34]
Karina Lindmeier
Absolutely, there's nowhere to hide. When you start playing a set, all eyes are on you. And I think it's the same journey goes hand in hand with the illustration journey. It's more like a trial and error thing. So I started for fun with a friend and we just wanted to host an evening in our favorite bar and of course all our friends were there and we got some nice feedback and of course we had no idea how everything works. I mean not no idea, but hardly. The set was not a very neat one. Let's call it like this. We Just wanted to put in some music, have fun. And then, of course, we found out, or we learn that people don't care about if there was, like, the perfect transition or not. They care about the energy, they care about the selection. They care about the moment. And they really wanted to enjoy, like, this specific moment here and now. And I feel there's definitely a connection between playing music for someone else and creating illustrations for a client or a product or, yeah, an audience. So I always feel like people or I would really consider myself very lucky because I feel like I found my creative outlet in a visual way through illustration and in a musical way with DJing, which is very nice. And sometimes we both feel, when it comes to DT ing, we both feel like because I'm a. We have a DT duo, it's not just me alone. And when we don't feel like house music today, then we play, like, something else, and it's totally fine because it's all about the energy. And, yeah, I feel like it's contagious and people seem to enjoy it, so it's fun. But, yeah, you have to be brave.
- [42:40]
Radim Malinag
You have to be brave for sure. I mean, especially, like, when you keep it within a certain genre. Like, at least some people will get, you know, some people will expect something. But it wouldn't be a conversation about DJing if I didn't ask you about any horror stories, because I've had people requesting a Baywatch theme tune in the middle of a drummer bass set. Anything you can think of has happened to pretty much anyone. So I want to know, with no place to hide from crazy people. Do you have any horror stories?
- [43:08]
Karina Lindmeier
Oh, my God. I mean, not horror stories, but of course, very fun stories. We also thought about, like, making a podcast out of it, out of all the fun stories we got to experience. But I feel like when it comes to DJing, there's always, like, one guy who, in the middle of the set who's trying to make some contact, and then he's trying to educate us. Like, back then in my days, we were spinning, like, real vinyl tracks and not, like, the computer stuff you were doing now. And it's not the same anymore. And I was like, okay, so what's your point? Are you not enjoying the music or is it because of our technical music? You feel, like, distracted. So what's your point? And then I feel like people are. Sometimes people are so weird when they're just come to you to just make a comment about something, but with no point, which is, for me, I don't get it? I mean, why are people doing this?
- [44:05]
Radim Malinag
I think you can give the benefit of the doubt and usually they wouldn't really say it unless they had a few drinks beforehand. I had all sorts of stories, I call them horror stories, but I actually had our fun stories. And I think there was somewhere online, on the good old days of Twitter, there was a whole thread of people who are like famous DJs who you think in. It only happens in the grassroots level or the local bars or whatever. No, it happens everywhere, like literally, Pete Tong, Carl Cox, all of them had those stories of. No one's immune to it. But what you said, I think quite beautifully, I think it proves the fact that the complaint, it's not really about what you do, it's about that person, that person's got something of a grudge or a bad experience or something negative going on. Or it could be even having an argument before coming out, having a few drinks, have a bit of an allergic reaction in their mind going, yeah, I'm a bit angry now because of something completely different. But when you think about it, it also happens in the creative sphere. People say, well, I can make this, I can make that, I could have made this. They never made that. And it's again, I think that point of re. Reinforcing the fact that don't take anything personally. And there's so many exercises of, you want to be valued, you want to have your voice, you want to be accepted for everything that you do, but ultimately you're the only person who needs to self accept. It was the, am I happy with what I'm doing? Am I making myself do something that doesn't make me happy? Happiness. That's the thing that I think we need to remember. Right. Would you have the same sort of experience?
- [45:38]
Karina Lindmeier
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I feel like when it comes to DJing, of course you have these people come to a place with, with some different expectations, so to say. So some people just want to have a good time with their friends. Some people want to, I don't know, shake their brains out. I don't know, different reasons. So you never know where people come from, so. And what they expect. And then of course you have to find like the. Sometimes it's really hard to find the messy middle, let's call it like this. And sometimes it's very easy to just do your thing and just focus on whatever you want to do in this specific moment. So it's, I would say it's all about balance. And also for the people in the audience, it's all about balance. So, yeah, it's interesting.
- [46:35]
Radim Malinag
So before I let you go, I want to talk about one of your other passions, which is cycling. I never really knew how much cycling and endurance cycling can have so much in common with creativity. Because when you're on a bike again, you've got nowhere to hide, really. You have to pedal to get forward. And I feel like I've gone through every stage of human evolution on my bike. That makes sense because you start very angry and then realize when you chill, when you focus on everything, when you stop blaming everything, everyone, you know, the potholes and cars are fucking annoying, let's be honest, everywhere in the world. But when you hold yourself accountable and you say, the stronger I get, the better I take corners, the better I position myself on a bike, I've got nobody to blame for my performance. How was it for you? Do you have that link between cycling and creativity?
- [47:34]
Karina Lindmeier
Absolutely. I can relate to everything you said. Sometimes I have a bad day and I really have to remind myself, Karina, take it. Slow and steady wins the race. One foot, the next foot. So just pedal it out, try to make it to the top and then we'll see. Or try to make it to this tree and then let's focus on the next few meters. So I feel like when it comes to sports, it teaches us so many things about ourselves and also how we interact with others like cars, other cyclists or ourselves. And it can bring you so much joy, but it can also make you very angry. For example. And it always goes back to like, I feel like when you have a problem with something in your life, you feel it while you're on your bike, it's not going away. So you have to deal with it. You have to deal. So that's like really the hard track, so to say when you are on your bike and you have a shitty day and you want to pedal it out and these thoughts will not go away until you solved it. So. And that's something I really enjoy. Sometimes I hate it, but in the end I love it. So I don't know, how is it for you? Is, is it the same or.
- [49:05]
Radim Malinag
Yeah, I mean, I've had, I've gone through every single emotion on my bike. I mean, but I realized that just because you get yourself a better bike doesn't mean that your fitness is going to get better. So I've really realized that I need to do my wahoo programs, like the 12 week programs to actually get stronger. And then you see the progress. So when people say, hey, I want to be better creative, I'm like, go to the library. I want to be a better cyclist. Go to the gym. Like the thing that is about the thing, you're not going to get better at that thing. And this is the linguistic gymnastics here. But if you want to get better at something, you do something away from it that informs you how you can be better and stronger through written word, for illustration, for everything. Stepping away from that moment or stepping away from the activity or action and doing something in favor of this makes a huge difference because the more we talk about creativity, the more we understand, the more storytelling we do. So with your work and with what you do creatively and for life, do you have these sources of like, external information and inspirations that you look for? Because you cover quite a broad spectrum. You do workshops, you do speaking, you do mostly illustrations. You deal with former vinyl DJs in your spare time, having no shitty comments. So what is up there that you can sort of use as your sort of secret? Like, I do this and that, you know, helps my work and my sort of creative philosophy.
- [50:31]
Karina Lindmeier
I don't know if this is really like a creative. Go to recipe for me to find inspiration, but mostly it's yeah, going for a cycling trip or spending time with friends, having a dinner or. Yeah. Music or being in nature. I feel like when you force something, it's not coming. So it's like you said, step away, try to focus on something else. And recently I came back to this. It's not a quote, but it's something that's popping up in my mind quite often lately. It's like everything is temporary. And I feel like it's so true because every feeling is temporary. So if you feel like you're not going somewhere and you're not getting close to where you want to go, the feeling will go away. But you just have to find your way to get where you want to. So just be patient, consistent, try to find your new perspective and start running if you. Even if you're not ready. It sounds very poetic, but it's so true. And you have to find your way through your own strategy. So to say, how to find your creativity or how to keep your chooses flowing.
- [51:55]
Radim Malinag
Well, thank you very much for rounding off this conversation with such beautiful words. It was been pleasure talking to you today. I'm a big fan of your work. I'm a big fan of you as a person, what you do, how you show up in person on the Internet. And yeah, this conversation is just a true testament of what you do and I'm, you know, excited to see that when you don't feel like running, you're still going to get out there and do it. So thank you, thank you.
- [52:20]
Karina Lindmeier
Thanks for having me and thanks for everything. And I'm excited for your new book.
- [52:25]
Radim Malinag
Yeah, me too. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions and suggestions, so please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinage. The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 Million Bikes Podcast. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle, including an ebook and audiobook to make the content accessible wherever you are and whatever you do. To get 10% off your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the code Podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.