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- [00:02]
Radim Malinic
Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time or you're a regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provides them with value.
- [00:19]
Unnamed Host
So thank you for being here and for helping out. Thank you.
- [00:36]
Danae Gossett
You stay in this like tiny single hut in the middle of the forest and there's nothing else around. And I remember for that specific retreat I felt very connected to nature and I started thinking about space and human existence and all of these existential thoughts. And when I came back to France and society I had this like very urging thing in my that I felt deeply in myself and my soul that I needed to express. And from that came series of like small animation with like very short shortcuts and match cuts with a very dynamic pacing and rhythm that was related to human condition, this space, the planet, nature, etc. So quite like contemplative subjects.
- [01:29]
Radim Malinic
Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic. I'm a designer, author and eternally curious human being. I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create foreign.
- [02:17]
Unnamed Host
My.
- [02:17]
Radim Malinic
First guest of this season is Danae Gossett, the founder and creative director of Pencil tv, a multidisciplinary creative studio focused on animation, production and graphic design. Danae's artistic vision is a mixture of a thorough aesthetic featuring dreamlike imagery designed to elicit emotions through visible brushstrokes and tactile hand drawn sensibility. In our conversation, she shares her remarkable transformation from a rebellious and often misunderstood student to become an acclaimed creative that she is today. Her journey reveals how embracing difficulty, trusting intuition, and finding the right mentors can turn chaos into creative gold. She also discusses her unique approach to stop motion animation, the power of silent retreat for creative breakthroughs, and why she deliberately chooses the harder path in both her work and life decisions. It's my pleasure to welcome Danae Gossett. Hi Danae, how are you doing today?
- [03:21]
Danae Gossett
How are you? Doing great, thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
- [03:24]
Unnamed Host
Thank you for being here and for those who may have never heard of Pencil TV or Danae Cosette, how would you introduce yourself?
- [03:32]
Danae Gossett
I would introduce myself as the founder and creative director of Pencil tv. So Pencil TV is my mixed media studio where we make mostly commercials and music videos. And the particularity of it all is that I like to things that are handmade and a mix of analog and physical techniques. The purpose of my work is always trying to go in the difficult route of things in terms of the process. And that's kind of the what I try to embody within all of the projects that I tackle. And yeah, and I also do some design work that's a bit less advertised because I do love to do a little bit of everything. And I find it that people like it better when you're specialized into one thing. So that's like kind of my battle of these upcoming years is like to try to do as many things as possible in a different realm and try to succeed at it in terms of like doing different things.
- [04:28]
Unnamed Host
I guess you said I like to make it difficult. There's not something that lots of people would like to admit or even search for. Like people search for doable, manageable, potentially easy. So your handmade approach and the way you do your stop motion creativity, like how did that come about? How do we trace it back to the beginning?
- [04:52]
Danae Gossett
The beginning. It started when I was in college and I think it was thanks to the position that you have naturally as a student and just being very experimental in heart, which is something that I find hard to maintain as a professional creative where you're working, I think with more sets of rules and life gets in the way. But so I find myself being in that position of being a student and being in that freedom of experimenting really allowed me to tackle a lot of different experimentation. And this is where I started to get very interested in mixed media practices. I specifically had a class with one of my teacher called Pavlo Delkin. And it was an infinite study. So it wasn't like a full class for 30 different kids. It was like a one on one study with one teacher and one student. And he gave me a very open assignment which was just come up with anything you want and just do it every single day for an entire semester. And so I was like, okay, this is very broad. I do not know what I want to do. But I remember it. At the time I was very much drawn to the subconscious mind and very drawn to dreams. And I love moving images. At the time I was studying graphic design at the School of Visual Arts. And I was in one other class with one of my teacher, Karen Goldberg, which is someone who changed also the course of my life for different reasons. But she told me, and she was like, I don't think you're a traditional graphic designer. I think you should look into moving images. And that conversation stayed with me. So when Pablo asked me, like, what do you want to do for this entire semester as a daily assignment? I was like, okay, I want to try to learn animation, and I want to do things with my dreams, like something that relates to dreams. So something came to mind. I was like, okay, every day I want to animate the dream I had the night before. And so it became sort of this exploration of my own mind, plus gaining some technical skills and also really feeling my creativity. And for the first time ever, I followed through with something for more than a week because I used to get tired all the time and, like, switching ideas and practices every, like, a lot. And I found myself and this sort of routine, I guess, you know, it's like something that you build. It's almost like a muscle. It's an end of day where you talked a lot about this, about resilience and having the best setup to do the work that you want to do. And this, it came to me naturally. And I started to become obsessed with the process. And so every day I used to spend hours just learning about animation, reading all the books, like, watching all the tutorials. And as I went and gained having more confidence within my animation skills, I started to become very experimental. At the time, I was also in my other class reading a book by Eduard de Bono about lateral thinking, which is the philosophy of. Or like, the idea of stealing creativity through association. Find an idea with, like, mixing like a shoelace and a theater. And like, what would that be? You know, like, very, like Fluxus mindset, like data mindset. So I applied also that thinking just like these thought processes. And to that assignment I was like, what if I mix 3D with watercolor? And what if I mix, like, film scratching with an after effects animation? And what if I mix stop motion with something else? And so it became sort of this very intense creative burst of ideas. And I was every day trying something new on top of gay, like, gaining those technical skills. And that's how it started. And for an entire semester, I did this assignment. It was very demanding. And every day also, like, a cool part of it was that I could collaborate with my brother who is a musician. So every day. So it was. It also became an assignment for him because Every day. He used to make the music and the sound effects, the innovation that I was sending him. So it was this like back to back with someone that I really love. Plus, you know, finding myself in this thing that kind of came to me by chance, but also through the work, being resilient with it. And that's how it started.
- [09:13]
Unnamed Host
The tutor that got you to do one on one for the whole semester, I think, is it luck? Is it destiny? Is it fate? Because that's changed your life, right?
- [09:23]
Danae Gossett
I have goosebumps even thinking about it because it is true. It's, you know, sometimes you just meet the right people at the right time and if. What can you do about it? If I didn't have this class, if I didn't have. It was a combination of things that just happened at the same moment. Like reading that book, having my teacher that I should get into, like more moving images by my teacher who gives me that freedom. Like, I had the tools, had the space, it like it just made sense at the time. That's it. Like, it's precious, magical moments, I guess.
- [09:50]
Unnamed Host
I think there's lots of horror stories where people say, yeah, look, I went to uni and didn't really give me what I really needed. Whereas you find yourself in the right place in the right time, how do you find yourself at that particular universe? Like, how did you find yourself there? What was the draw? Like? Why did you apply? What was the journey?
- [10:04]
Danae Gossett
I don't think I was supposed to be here today. In a way, when I look back at things, because I was growing up and very anxious. I think in terms of. I did not know what I wanted to be, what I wanted to do. I had a really hard time at school. I could not concentrate, I was very hyperactive. I was not grounded whatsoever and I was getting like kicked out of school. I did so many different schools because I was. I had a bad attitude and I just. The school system in France was very like unsuited for people, I guess, like me. I think I was, you know, very academic and you need to do well in school. And I think I just wanted to be outside and look at the clouds. I was kind of like that kid at the very end row who was just like, look outside all day and dreaming of being anywhere else but on this chair. So it felt very difficult for me. And I actually, like, it got really bad and I got kicked out of one more school and then that was the end of it. So when I was 16, I stopped going to school, like altogether because no school would Take me. It was like the 10th school that I got kicked out of. And my parents were like, we don't know what to do with you. This is. What do you want? So. And I was like, I don't know. So for two years I just didn't go to school. I still passed my. Actually I had a. Well, one more person who came in my life and kind of saved me was one of my old French teacher right before I got kicked out of the last school, before I did in return. He. He found my number after I got kicked out and he. And he told me, he was like, I don't think. I think you should follow through. I will help you. Just. So he toured me for two years so that I could get my high school diploma. And so that's what he did. So he pulled me out of the. Of my hole because I was very depressed and very anxious. And he made me get like, to a place where I could actually move abroad if I wanted to, which was my plan because I was dating someone who had just moved to New York, so. And I used to live in the state for a little bit as a kid. So I had a pretty tight relationship with the US As I was growing up. And I always knew that I wanted to be in the States, so, like, the stars align and I wanted to be in New York. So I applied for a school, but I did not know what I wanted to do at all. I was not really interested in arts really at that time. I mean, I always doodle, but, you know, like, nothing really serious with the. With an art practice. You know, some kids, they're just. They draw so much. Since a very early age, I was more like. Like a dreamer and not knowing where to put all my creative energy. So I found this school called New York Institute of Technology because they had like an Erasmus program with the French school. And it was like, like this PR program. And my French teacher who helped me, he was like, may, maybe you would be good in pr. And I'm like, okay, I guess. Well, I just signed up for the school and I got in and when I got there, I had a meeting with the, like the council advisor, you know, the person who would help you get your classes. And she looked at me and she's like, well, maybe you should go into TV production. And I was like, sure, okay. Not knowing at all what it meant. I just found myself in a TV production program. When I thought I was in a PR school, you know, I was like, not. I did not know what I was doing whatsoever. And I got myself, like, I didn't know. I'm like, okay, sure, like, not knowing what's. It was kind of mad when I think about it. And in those programs, you have to take some elective courses, you know. So I had a literature class that I had to attend to, and I was doodling at the time in my notebooks like I used to, but not very seriously. And my neighbor was seeing what I was doing and, oh, like, you, you draw well, you know, there's an art program here. Like, you should take some art classes. So he's actually one other person that was very pivotal because before that, no one had looked at my drawings or told me that they were nice or that I could take drawing lessons or anything like that. So he told me that, and I was like, oh, I guess I will take a drawing lesson. And then I went to drawing class and then boom, you know, like, I. I started to sparkle and I was like, oh, my God, this is so much fun. And after, when I finished this semester, by the time I finished, I switched to the graphic design program at this school who was not a graphic design school. You know, they had many different majors. And so I did graphic design there for another semester. And I was like, okay, like, this is really. I really want to do this. But now it's. I really want to be at the best school for this. And this is when I applied to sba and this is when I got in. And I guess the second I stepped foot inside of the School of Visual Arts, it's like I knew that I was in the right place. And it's like I had fireworks in my brain and starting because I was always considered like a lazy person during all of my upbringing, like, my entire school set studies. Like, I was lazy, to be fair. And then I transferred myself into a work machine where, like, I could not stop thinking about work and working. And I started to do like 16, 18 hour days fully. I was just like, weekends every single day. Became obsessed with it, like, and I didn't think that I was. That I could ever find this fuel in me. And, yeah, so that was pretty crazy.
- [15:27]
Unnamed Host
I want to really know how much of the anxiety and the hyperactivity was there during the process until you step through the doors of the SBA because you find your purpose, you find your safe place, you find a new home. I think this is. It's a wonderful story that I'm so happy that you had all these people that sort of showed you the next path of your. Of your journey. And it kind of reminds me a bit of your work because there's characters and they show up and it almost seems like there's always a sort of guiding lighter. There's a guiding person that says this is the way you go. So the dreams and the direction and that sort of journey, it comes through your work now, which it's magical to know that was your life. Obviously it wasn't sunshine and ice cream for very long time. It sounds indeed chaotic. And I do wanted to know, like, when you move to the States, when you must be. When you had your tutor who appeared and obviously helped you to actually be in a position where you can go to States and actually start studying PR and then TV production, was there still in a turmoil when you find yourself going from PR to tv? Or did you just go with the flow and some of your anxieties were just sort of more subsided? Or were you still sort of having an internal fight about where you were and what you were doing because you were already on the way somewhere else?
- [16:45]
Danae Gossett
I did not know what I was doing, honestly. I think I was just letting it happen to me. So I think I was not in a turmoil per se because I was like, just so out of it in a way, you know, especially at the time I was in the. Yeah. Like I had a really hard time on a. On a personal level and trying to find my place in the world. And I think when I moved to New York, I already felt calmer than I was in Paris because I was pretty. You know, they're doing like some salty, disruptive behavior. So I think already being in another country felt really calming. So I think I was more in a mindset of letting it happen. And I felt calmer than I had before. But still, I don't know why. I think I always felt like things were gonna. Maybe was sorely like. Like delusional. But I always had this inner feeling that things were gonna be okay. And I think I felt closer to my goal when I was in this state. And even if I was in the wrong school, I felt like I was on the right path. So I like, my mind was more at peace than it was like a few months prior when I was still in France. We'll be back after a quick break.
- [17:55]
Radim Malinic
This episode is brought to you by Lux Coffee Co. The first creative specialty coffee company building a platform to shine the light on emerging global talent. With a mission to make a positive impact on a creative industry and beyond. Lux Coffee Co offers exceptional coffee sourced from around the world through ethical and sustainable practices. And you can discover the current range of signature blends and single origins coffee hardware and accessories along with exceptional apparel@luxcoffee.co.uk you can use the code podcast to get 15% off your first order.
- [18:42]
Unnamed Host
Can definitely relate to it. I think that when you have a change of scenery and start afresh and all of the troubles kind of just fall away slowly and again, I think that was again for you, that was the next door into the new world, into the next chapter into the new story. So with the subscon, with the subconscious and the dreams and the experimentation. So but as you said, you went. It was a natural drawer and people sort of people picked up on the fact that, you know, your sketchbook looks good. It's a different story between sketching and then using creativity almost on endurance basis. Because if you were creating for 16 hours a day, how did you find it? Obviously initially it was we all have the honeymoon. Like everything feels great because it's a new thing. But how did you find it? Like going from almost zero to thousand.
- [19:31]
Danae Gossett
So good. Oh my God. It's felt breathing for the first time. And something that I wish for everyone to find, like to have this. And I hope that I do find it in my life later in some other forms because when I look back at the intensity, I don't know what wish I had. Like a map of my brain because I'm sure it was like fireworks everywhere. It felt really good. And it was a honeymoon phase during my entire school years. And I think like that resilience that I had was really like building a muscle. And what is interesting now is that I find myself like I was much more resilient, I think when I was in college than. Because that's all that my energy went. Like all of my mental charge went was only like to be a student, you know, like now I have to think about so many different things and it's like you have to create the space, whereas before your life is that space in a way. So I'm finding much more challenging. So now it's really hard to be at a hundred. I think it's. I keep on going back and forth. But I think, you know, it's kind of like meditation where like you start to meditate and everything is going well and then you have a thought and then you wander out and then you just need to pull yourself back, back again. So I find myself in that spirit of it's okay if you let it slip for a second, but you just try to center yourself with the back with the Work because I do know it's like once you know how it feels to be in that flow state with the work and for a longer period of time and how like your life just lights up once you know that we type experience like so many times things and this is like the best feeling ever, then it's something, it's so addicting, you know, like you, you try to have it and when it flips out you ask yourself like, how did it slip? Why don't I have it? You know, you crave it and creating space for it is actually, it takes work. And I used to not have to think about that when I was in college and being so much immersed because it was just like my day to day and now it's like I have to find strategies and trick my brain and have rituals and routines. And as I say it's, it's interesting how, how things are all.
- [21:43]
Unnamed Host
I looked up a quote from Twyla Tharp. It said creativity is a habit and the best creativity is the result of good work habits. You know, is there is a different way of getting flow states when we're younger because we are slightly unaware of the surrounding. We are a lot more selfish, a lot more self focused and like I can focus on my craft, whereas the older we get we got a lot more patience and a little bit less energy and a lot more noise in our lives. And I think it's just that way of that maybe do we need to make peace with the fact the creativity might get easier because you know your craft, you know your tools, you know your processes, but the inner battles and the outside influences, you know, because we think that there'll be no more problems. Like, okay, we've worked on our cloud for so long, this should now work and you realize yourself, okay, you need, as you said, you need to create rituals and habits. Like how to really immerse yourself in this because we add extra data points to our brain every day and sometimes they are fighting for our attention. And you're like, no, I need to be creative, I need to do my stuff. It's like, how do you apply resilience? Because you use the word resilience. I think something that I'm picking up from this story, you had to have a lot of resilience in your, you know, school days to get through this. Because being kicked out over and over again doesn't exactly a beginning of a really interesting story on paper. It was just like what is going to happen next? Whereas everything's changed. So in your way of creativity what are your habits to get into flow states? What do you do? Because I know you're not a regular mortal in a way because I know you meditate, you go to silent retreats. You actually look after your mind and kind of prepare yourself for the next endurance event, creative event. So what do you do?
- [23:34]
Danae Gossett
Yeah, well, it's interesting. I think, I think I've forced myself, you know, you. You just mentioned the Descent retreats to me. It's a must in for my mind to recalibrate because I find the world to be very intense and you know, like the overwhelming of the phone addiction and social media and I'm like, sometimes like you, I just end up losing myself a bit, you know. So these. I have to go. I have been going to side hair treats for the past five years now and. And I go there like I try to go like three times a year or something. And when I find that it's helped me reset and really find myself again in a way. So. Right. Because I just came back from one like a. A few days ago and I was really looking forward to it because I was in a really noisy space and I was really struggling to find a space to, to be creative. And I was like, okay, maybe, maybe I need a few days with no phone and try to see if I can find my flow again. And I got there and all I did was paint. And now it's. I'm back and I paint again. And it's. I'm not afraid of making mistakes. I just take random pieces of paper and I start painting on it. And I'm not trying for it like to be perfect or beautiful. Like, I'm just trying to do stuff like try to be productive, like in whatever form it is. So, you know, I have this watercolor paper and I just do like color association. It's like what happens if I just like draw it, like a geometric thing on it. And there's this quote that I've heard. I want to add these words onto it and just very loose. And then now I'm finding myself doing a whole series of random watercolor paintings. And I don't know if it's gonna go anywhere in terms of my animation practice. And it doesn't need to. You know, I think that's also the problem sometimes I think creatives or. But I'll speak for myself. It's. I'll try to do things that have a purpose. It's like, how is this going to help me for my business? How is this going to help me get new clients or, you know, trying to be strategic about something, whereas I actually did. This doesn't even matter. That's not what I want. What I want is just to let some things out. I don't know what it is. I don't need to know. I just. This is good for my soul. This is good for my brain. This is essential for me. Like, this is how I honor myself and I take care of myself. Same as going to the gym. And I don't know why sometimes it feels so much easier to not do these things. It is so much easier to not go to the gym or not go for a run rather than go. But we all know that it's better for your health if you exercise and add some cardio to your routine, right? So that's the same thing. And I was very interested in habit stacking. I've read this book by James Claire, like, called Atomic Habits, which is really good. And, you know, it's. You know, I think he mentions in it, it's like the hardest part of going for a run is putting on your shoes. Because then they said, what are you going to do to just have your running shoes and go eat a pizza? No, like, usually that's the first step and then you just go for a run. And it's the same thing for being creative. It's. If I had, you know, it's like if I take out a watercolor paper and I have my watercolors out, like, I'm probably just going to go paint. I'm not going to go do something else. So. And having these visual cues, it's like, I'll keep, like some paint out or I keep looking my materials close by. It's like I'm trying to keep the things that are good for me on a visual, at a visual level and try to make it very easy for me to access. And what is bad for me, obviously, I try to keep away from my gaze.
- [27:11]
Unnamed Host
I want to talk to you about silence because you said, I mean, we are all spectacularly addicted to our phones. Spectacularly. I mean, it's almost comical when you look around you and people are walking with their phones. People can see you. Like, there's benefits of having these devices in our pockets because we can consume content in a different way, that we've got more again, more access to more information, more knowledge. But, oh, my God, you know, sometimes you feel like there's days where you're like, I cannot win. I had to go to bed and we start tomorrow again. So I want to talk about silence. You Say you go for a few days and you go up to three times a year for the last five years. But when you leave that phone away, when you leave everything behind and you just focus on this, like what goes through your mind, what is that sort of almost what I call the mind inventory. Do you go and clear out the clutter? Like tell us about the benefits and about the feelings and the experience of silent retreats?
- [28:05]
Danae Gossett
Yeah. So weirdly enough, I don't miss my phone at all when I'm. When I don't have it, you know, I don't even think about it for a second. I'm just like, it's such a relief almost, you know, it's like you're just alone with yourself and like how does that feel? It's like when you don't have a distraction because to the side or to let go. It's like you don't have books, you're not really supposed to meditate or have activities. Like the point of it is to really be alone with yourself. The only thing that you, that you can do if you want is like to write or paint or draw like everything that is like self expression for. And I find that it's interesting. So the first day of the. Because I do it for five days, sometimes I do it for 10. This time around I did it for five and now actually for six. And so I find that the first day it's usually like a lot of my. My mind is scanning a lot of the superficial. Like I'll think about like the TV show that I've just watched. I'll think about like some surface level things, like an email I had with the client. And so I feel like my mind is scanning through my everyday sort of routine. And then I get into deeper things, you know, then I'm like, I start to question my choices, like where am I with my life? What do I want to do? And I find that oftentimes some really deeply rooted things come out. And this is actually because I'm moving to Los Angeles and at the end of the month, which is a, like a pretty major thing that is happening in my life at the moment. And it came out during one of those retreats for reasons that just make sense with where I want to be and for many different reasons. And I made that decision during my last retreat, like not this one, but the one prior. And it comforted me in this idea. And I finally like don't make that leap. Which is something that I was kind of trying to push down because I have such A nice setup in France. So what I'm doing right now is very disruptive. And it's like, disruptive in the way that it's like, right now I'm very comfortable. And I think this is also why I need to shake things up. I'm like, I'm too comfortable. And this is actually not the same mentality with the work. It's too easy. It means maybe something is wrong. And that's how I felt with my life as well. It's like, if it gets too comfortable, then maybe there's a few things that I should shake up.
- [30:33]
Unnamed Host
I think the word difficult comes back in. It has to be difficult. It can't be just easy. Like you said, you know, like at the beginning, like, I look for a challenge, I look for difficult. But you and I met in Mexico at Paradiso. And we met, we started talking because there was an activity which was too busy for both of us. You were like, there's too many people in a cenote. I can't do this. It's like. And this is almost a metaphor for how everything operates right now. You know, you get too many people in one space. You've got too much information in one pocket of corner of the Internet. You know, you got. There's these busy spaces. And when you personally, when you run away from it or not run away from, but when you move away from it, you tell yourself, oh, is this what I'm doing good for my business? The most amazing things often come up from the ways when you don't expect anything, because you can create a state of flow. And unless you approach it, like with Big in his mind thinking, I know nothing about this and anything can happen, it's more than often possible to actually put yourself under undue pressure. Okay, well, I've got everything set up and I've got a deadline and this has to work. And there's nothing worse about it because you can be in a perfect flow, but you can still be creating a false narrative. Like, I'm worried about what this might be. Whereas when you meander in this sort of open space of your mind going, I'm going to draw, I'm going to try, I'm going to think, more than often, those activities will be actually beneficial to your business because you had time to reopen that sand pit and play with the bits that normally would be restricted. So just like you said, when you had your one on one project, like, you were able to experiment, you were able to do things, and there was almost no rules, which is you Know, how can you do that? So the silence, I think sometimes scary. You know, I think we don't want to necessarily always audit our mind, our business, our lives, because we. It's nice to pretend that there's no issues. Well, I say it's nice. It's a false economics, you know, like sometimes it's better to pretend that there's nothing wrong, but when you come to head on with your mind and actually listen to your mind, you're like, oh, there's some actually nice things to find in there. One time it's watercolors, another time it's let's move to la. So on your quest for difficult, on your quest for challenges, I mean, as you said, it's nice to have a sort of comfortable setup. It's something we can sometimes strive for, but when we get there, it's like, how do I find more of work and sort of challenge me? So should we talk about your move? Let's talk about what you're planning to do and set up in la.
- [33:09]
Danae Gossett
Yeah, it's a good question. I am doing a big leap of faith. Honestly. I think I really, I, I do miss the States. I think, well, most of my clients are in the US and a lot of them are actually in California. I think a lot of things, like great things, you know, with film, animation are, are happening there. I have a few good, really good friends that are there. I would love to be in nature but also be in the city. So those were like kind of my, my, my parameters. I would love to see the ocean every day and hike. Although it's kind of comical because I do not have my driver's license. So in Los Angeles, I think that my, it's the first thing that I should do is to take my test. Well, I'll try at least, but I've tried to get it in France and I fell miserably a few times. So that's my plan is like going there, obviously try to get my license and yeah, I don't know, like, I, I will, I'm just going to give it a try. If it doesn't work, it's fine, you know, like if I hate it in six months, I know it's okay. I can come back to Paris. It'll be a small failure, but it's okay.
- [34:21]
Unnamed Host
You know, I think you will land on your feet. I like the reasons that you go in there with, because it's. You don't go with a dream, you go there with a plan and a purpose. And as someone once said, you Know, for people who move away from home to somewhere, they can always go back home and rebuild and start again. But that's just the sort of. That sort of safety net that you can have. But I want to talk about more of your work, because I can now I've sort of traced it back to why do you work the way do you work? But I find it from someone who used to work solely digitally for years and years, literally decades. Unlike that immediacy of digital sort of nature. Whereas your work, you know, when I've seen your scanner and your paint and like frame by frame, I'm like, I don't have a patience for that. I absolutely admire it. Did it all start with that yearly project and did you build the understanding of stop motion from that?
- [35:17]
Danae Gossett
Yes, it is a practice or like that technique that I usually do, which is that blend between 3D and analog I started to do there. And then that teacher actually hired me the summer, like after my graduation to work on a music videos where we applied some of what I was doing during that experimentational phase on that music video together for that summer, which was really cool. And then another. And then I had some friends that were working on a music video for Mitski the artist, like the studio art camp with Santiago, who I was also dating at the time, and. And Saad, who's like an incredible 3D artist. And. And Santi saw like what I was doing during all of my school years and my experimental technique. And so he got this brief and he had the vision of putting Saad and I together. Saad who was a 3D artist, and me, who was. When I was doing like a lot of experimental mimic media, frame by frame animation. And so it was a very in. In his own eyes, you know, it was kind of also like a lateral thinking sort of thing because he saw Saad, he saw me, he was like mixed media artist, like amazing 3D guy. Let's put them together and see what happens. And so I started to work with Saad and doing so much experiments and together we made. We made the music video A Pearl by the artist Mitski. And the video got really well received within the animation world and the music video sphere. And, you know, I had just graduated from college and I was like, oh my God, what. What is happening? This isn't really supposed to happen this fast. But so, yeah, it was a very like, strong entry into the workforce, like an incredible collaboration. And it felt really good to. To have that incredible experience, like right off college. But yeah, so. So that's when it started and then I worked. I took a break from. From doing that mixed media style. Cause I got a job at Segmestering Walsh a few months after we finished the music video. I had just came back actually from Argentina with Santi. Cause we had shot a documentary about a sign painter there. And I came back and I think I started at Segmentstrain Walsh one month after that, which was a great move because there, even though I had done like so many internships, it was actually like I started off as an intern and then I got hired as a designer and motion and motion designer. But it's like you really get to see how a studio is structured and how a studio operates and you have so many different moving pieces, like producer designers, art directors. And I was working closely with Jessica Walsh and that was just incredible. And I also had the chance to be there during the transition of Sagmeister and Walsh into N. Walsh. So I got to see a studio loan everything. I learned so much there. I'm so grateful to. To have been part of that team. I made really, really good friends there. Everyone was so nice, really. And working with Jessica, I mean, I think she's a genius really to just being in her presence and seeing how she works was incredible. And I felt really like it. And then I got back into the.
- [38:38]
Unnamed Host
Mixing stuff after some people might have found it almost enviable because, well, there's two sides basically. There's two parts to your story. There's the part that no one would really want, which is like being kicked out of school and obviously not being able to fit any mold and almost not having any light at the back of the tunnel. Okay, where am I heading? There's nothing. And then there's a switch and there's plenty of light. You know, the light go in and you flourish and you are, you know, on a journey, literally with all these guides that they sort of show me the next sort of chapter of your life, of your creative life. And I mean, I'm so happy that you've had all of these important people, like some of the biggest names that we can think of actually to learn from. Did you ever feel intimidated by the genius? Did you feel like, oh, I need to step up or this is too much, or how did that feel? Because, you know, not everyone goes from I don't know what I want to do. And within a few years, you're working with Stefan Sagmeister. This has escalated quickly.
- [39:43]
Danae Gossett
It had. But to be fair, I think I worked like a crazy loon and click person. So I. I did get really lucky in terms of the people that came that. That have crossed my path. But I do think I had this mentality of, I am going to get it. Like, when I got the internship at Segmeister and launch, I was like, I'm. I didn't come in with the intern view on, on. On it. I was like, I'm getting a job at the end of this internship. I had a plan, I had a goal. The goal was really clear. It's like, why do I need to get my goal? I'm going to work crazy. I'm going to do amazing work. I'm going to be really nice. I'm going to be supportive. I'm going to be a good person. I'm going to be, like a good teammate. And I had all this list in my head of the things that I needed to do. I'm always available. You can call me at 2am on a Sunday. I'll be there. You know, that was my mentality, maybe. I know it's like some people would really don't like that, but to me, that was what I needed to be doing. And I put myself in those places, too. I reached out. I was very active on social media, LinkedIn, and I was, like, actively trying to get to where I wanted to be. So I do. And when I do look back into the chaos that have brought me there, I think it was almost a fuel for me. And I think it's like, everyone can find their fuel. My fuel is, like, proving all these people wrong that have told me that I would never be anything in life and that I would, you know, end up, like, doing terribly. And to me, it's like that was my revenge. It's like, it's something that I had lasted, obviously. But to me, that was, like, my fuel. It was this almost anger that I had of, like, you know, people thinking very little of me or thinking that I was incapable of doing anything. And I think if you're not mad about something, maybe you can be mad about, like, not mad because it's like a negative emotion. But do you have a fuel? And if so, what is it? You know? So, yes, and definitely, like, incredible surroundings and mostly thanks to being within, like, the LB community and the fact that I was able to leave Paris. But then it's great, like, you're in this spot. What are you gonna do now? Which is something that I do take pride in. The fact that I've really did everything that I. That was in my power to get the things that I wanted.
- [41:59]
Unnamed Host
If anyone's listening to this, and the audience of this show is a little bit older, but if anyone's listening to this at the beginning of their career, especially this moment, that's how you get where you want to get. Like you do. Work hard, like, you make yourself available, you make yourself keen. When you live and breathe what you want to do, the universe sees it and opens the door for you. Because that energy, that mindset, that determination, especially at that time, is important because maybe the world has changed now and we expect the universe to find us or find other people. That sort of thinking, well, here's my portfolio. I'm waiting. I'm sitting and waiting. Whereas the power of just asking a single question, like, okay, I want that door to be open. This is what I can do with it now. It's magical because it's. It will work forever. And I think the more people are just sitting behind their Instagram profiles hoping that studios will find them. You knock on every door and you knock until they open that door. When they open and shut it in your face, you knock on again, say.
- [43:00]
Radim Malinic
Hey, actually, I'm still here.
- [43:01]
Unnamed Host
I'm still keen. Because in my studio, I always used to say that I used to employ not the best talent, but the one that never went away. I was looking to employ all the time. But when some people just wouldn't go away, I was like, well, let's have. Let's see what you can do. Let's see what. What can we do with you? Because that's, I think, sometimes a bigger measure of how much you wanted and would you want to be and how good you want to be, rather than, well, look, this is my amazing portfolio. No, how much you gonna pay me? It was like, you can go away. Like, I want to work with someone who is actually scrappy and challenging. And because that's where sort of magic happens, rather than going, well, you've got the right ingredient, but not that with your style. And as you've got copy of the book that I wrote, which is called Creativity for Sale, I talk about magic formula. I talk about the sort of the need for celebrating uniqueness. When you see a lot of motion work coming out on weekly basis with studios who are incredible and they've got their ways of working, you've created very own sort of signature style. If you were to do a lineup of five different pieces, you might think that the five different pieces from different agencies are just one agency. But if I put your piece next to it, I would know it's exactly you it's a benefit to have your personal style bus. Does it ever make you feel that you might need to compromise, you might need to change? Or are you lucky that you can still pursue your way of working and your signature style, despite sometimes commercial requirements?
- [44:35]
Danae Gossett
Yeah, that's interesting. I think to me it's like working on personal pieces. It's like stretching in the morning, you know, like I need to do this. And actually I found that like the more you put something personal then brands will approach you for that specific work. So whereas it really depends on the. On the reference that they have of your work. The. But I find that, you know, I mean it's pretty easy formula. The formula is put down the work that you want to be hired for. Like that is almost always the case. So if I want to go somewhere else, then I think the work will adapt. But it is hard. But in for example, like the. Because it's actually quite funny like when I'm. I came back from a silent retreat like a year and a half ago or something like that and I. It was a retreat for some reason that I felt, you know, so I'm. You say in this like tiny single hut in the middle of the forest and there's nothing else around. And I remember for that specific retreat I felt very connected to nature and I started thinking about space and human existence and all of these existential thoughts. And when I came back to France and society, I had this like very urging thing in my. That I felt deeply in myself and my soul that I needed to express. And from that came series of like small animation with like very short shortcuts and match cuts with a very dynamic pacing and rhythm that was related to human condition, the space, the planet, nature, et cetera. So quite like con. Contemplative subjects. And like my first real on it it had like millions of views and actually gained me like incredible amount of followers. And so I did this theory for about a year and I had a lot of personal like commercial projects from it. I did something for Google, I did something for Drake's perfume line. Like a few different things. Like I don't have everything in my right now, but you know, they bring me clients from this thing that was like deeply personal and gained me like, like a lot of followers and a lot of views, etc. So I think it all intertwines and now it's like I don't really have that same urge because it came to me so naturally to make this. To make these clips because it was inside of me and it was just like bursting, you know, I was just like, oh, my God, I need to put this out or else I'll have a heart attack. And you know something that you felt so deeply. Ah, like, I get what. What can I do with this? Now I'm on a different thing. It's like, I don't think maybe I will do them again in the future, but it's like I'm kind of experiment. I'm playing, which is also great. And maybe from those plays something else will come. I don't know. We'll see.
- [47:18]
Unnamed Host
I love that we are basically tracing back some of your breakthroughs in your careers back to silence. Everything's kind of been linked to silence and nature. And sometimes you think, I always. What's the right word to use? Like when people say, which gallery do you go for inspiration? It's like the high street. That's this. You go and see people, how people behave. And, you know, when you step away, actually when you have space to hear yourself, maybe that's where, as you said, it was bursting. It was there. Because how often do we almost worry that there's nothing in there, so we go somewhere else to fill it with someone else's jug. We feel like, no, the glass is empty. We're going to. Okay, I want to pour something else in there. Whereas I think your connections to nature, to silence and the subconscious and the dreams do make that work really sort of stand out. Do you ever feel like you have to almost purposely invent something that people that clients might want? Because it sounds like you're working on impulses, you know, you currently mixing watercolors and drawing shapes on it and just doing things that they still flow out of you? But did you ever feel that you want to get ahead of the curve of advertising or like a brand advertising that, you know, you invent something that potentially doesn't exist so more clients can come to you? Does it make sense? Right. So do you ever feel that way or do you just go, you know what? It's going to come out, when it's going to come out?
- [48:43]
Danae Gossett
Oh, no, I'm actually very. I think I'm really good. I think with client work. And I'm very, like, I'm very flexible, you know, like, client work is client work. It's. I'm not trying to negate. Sure. If you want me to be really experimental, I can propose these new techniques and let's create something amazing and new together. Is that not the case? That's not the case. Some like, you know, commercial Work is commercial work for me. It's like my personal work is my personal work. I adapt. I can give suggestions. If it doesn't work for the client, then it doesn't work for the client. You know, it's. I'm not there to pick bites. I'm trying to do my best work within the parameters that are given. Sometimes it's more rigid than others and it's okay. You know, I don't take feedbacks personally. I'm like, I don't know why, but I'm like very good with deadlines. I'm like never late to anything. But in general in my life, which is so counter. Like some, you know, it's like you. You would expect me to be late and be missing, but that's like weirdly not the case. And. And yeah, like, I think I'm just different. Maybe it's just like a sense of morale that come into place. I don't really know from where because it's also funny because I used to be like to resist so much like authority and like in hierarchy or anything that is being told to me. And now I found maybe through the healing process that I've done for. Throughout the years and like my healing practices and my mindfulness practices, I think I'm just like a very like different person now where. Whereas, you know, like, I just take things very lightly and very easily. But yes, I think they all do these things. They all speak to each other. Personal, commercial. But then in token like understanding the boundaries and. And I think being flexible is so important.
- [50:28]
Unnamed Host
Really use the word healing. It's so far it's story of two halves and maybe there'll be a next chapter. But what you said was really important is I've done work on yourself. You are in a process of healing. You create in the conditions. You are not taking the world for granted. You're not taking the world as it comes to you. You created your own sort of way how to absorb it and how to work with it and how to sort of put yourself out there that provides you with these almost conditions of I'm flexible, I'm happy to. When I'm working for other clients, it's creativity for sale. You know, it's on their budget, it's on their money. Let's do this. And it looks like maybe the rebellious chapter of your life was where all of that happened. And you brought a different version of yourself to what you do now. When I saw you in Mexico, we talked about a favorite quote and what's your favorite quote?
- [51:24]
Danae Gossett
I think. I don't even know who said this, but it's this quote that says when the and I know it in French I'm translating in my mind. It's when the student is ready, the teacher shows up.
- [51:35]
Unnamed Host
And isn't it just so poignant that the teacher showed up when you were ready?
- [51:44]
Danae Gossett
Yeah, and usually for horrible things. Like sometimes it's for horrible things, but you know, it's like they're testing you because you're ready to take it on. I think what a beautiful way to.
- [51:56]
Unnamed Host
Summarize this conversation because yeah, the teacher will show up when a student is ready. I love what you do. I salute you for what you're doing, where you've got so far. The story is fascinating. Your work is even more engaging and mesmerizing. So can't wait what you see now with the LA sunshine and you know, all of these life inputs that you can put into your existence and see where it takes you. Because yeah, I'm excited for you. So thank you for your time today.
- [52:22]
Danae Gossett
Thank you so much for them. This was really fun. Thank you for everything you do.
- [52:26]
Unnamed Host
You're most welcome.
- [52:27]
Danae Gossett
Thank you, thank you.
- [52:40]
Radim Malinic
Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions and suggestions, so please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinj. The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 Million Bikes Podcast. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle, including an ebook and audiobook to make the content accessible wherever you are and whatever you need do to get 10% of your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the code podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.