Podcast Summary: Daring Creativity. Daring Forever.

Episode: Dare to trust the puzzle – Jono McCleery

Host: Radim Malinic
Guest: Jono McCleery
Date: November 24, 2025

Episode Overview

In this deeply reflective episode, host Radim Malinic sits down with British singer-songwriter Jono McCleery to explore themes of creative authenticity, navigating limitations, collaborating across genres, and protecting creative integrity in an age of relentless social media pressure. Jono shares his journey from early struggles with hearing loss, through family influences, to carving a distinctive sound that bridges folk, jazz, and electronic music while maintaining personal truth at every step. The conversation balances practical insights into the musical process with philosophical meditations on what it means to "dare to trust the puzzle" of creativity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins & Early Influences

Timestamp: 03:35–05:46

• Jono describes a musical home shaped by his late brother Stephen and a jazz pianist stepfather.
• Loss and absence played a role: “It was quite sad for me... the music has gone from the house.” – Jono McCleery (04:09)
• Self-taught on a neglected Spanish guitar, Jono was influenced by artists like Bill Withers, Nick Drake, and John Martyn.
• Early improvisation and lyric-writing: “I remember being 11 ... even though I couldn’t play piano, I was still able to write songs with it.” (09:31)

2. Navigating Limitations & The “Puzzle” of Standard Tuning

Timestamp: 06:01–08:32

• Jono views standard tuning as a creative “puzzle,” preferring to explore originality within classic structures rather than using alternative tunings or gadgets.
  • “Limitations are so important... I think it’s much healthier creatively to attempt to sound original with just normal instruments, if you can.” – Jono (07:27)
• Early recording tech required discipline: “I had a cassette four-track... you had to develop a lot of discipline working like this.” (08:32)
• Radim reinforces: “There’s a freedom in limitations...” (08:05)

3. The Process: Writing, Lyrics, and Improvisation

Timestamp: 11:04–13:16

• Jono often lets melody lead, using improvisation and recorded stream-of-consciousness sessions to find lyrical themes.
  • “I try and make the whole process as unconscious as possible...” (12:58)
• Discusses the difficulty and discipline of lyric-writing, often leaving it until last.

4. Stylistic Choices & Collaborations

Timestamp: 13:27–15:48, 16:58–19:19

• Despite temptations, Jono keeps his own releases rooted in folk, jazz, and soul, even as collaborations (especially in dance music) expand his audience.
  • “My temptation is towards jazz... but I almost have to not indulge that too much because it takes me away from being accessible...” (13:34)
• Collaborating with electronic producers allows for genre-blending while keeping “the intimate core of his songwriting.”
• The creative challenge: “How do I represent myself within these limitations and it still feels like it’s me?” (14:58)
• Collaboration is deeply valued but approached with mutual trust and limited direction, inviting surprise and cross-pollination.

5. Challenges of Creative Integrity in the Social Media Era

Timestamp: 00:11, 23:53–25:53

• Jono is candid about the pressure of social media:
  • “It’s actually a really tricky time with social media... The pressure to be constantly shouting about yourself... can really interfere with your creativity.” (00:11, 23:53)
• He advocates for shutting out external noise to preserve self and creativity, highlighting a tension between self-promotion and authenticity.

6. Dealing with Labels, Expectations, and “No Plan B”

Timestamp: 31:13–35:38

• On being signed by Ninja Tune’s sublabel, Jono discusses the pressures and compromises in balancing a label’s expectations with his artistic vision.
  • “For me, I wanted to overcome this. Yeah, treat it like a limitation, like a puzzle...” (33:29)
• The importance of resilience: “Not having a Plan B is quite a good reason as well. I simply have to make this work somehow. That’s my mindset.” (35:07)

7. Covers, Instrumental Albums, and Stepping Outside the Comfort Zone

Timestamp: 36:43–39:50

• Jono describes recording his covers album Seed of a Dandelion, negotiating track suggestions from the label (including “Eye of the Tiger!”) but ultimately sticking to his own artistic preferences, with “Halo” as a notable concession.
  • “Gabriel just jumped out straight away as soon as I... heard the string parts, I was just amazed.” (38:41)
• The process illustrated the importance of both surprise and gentle assertion of personal taste.

8. Crafting an Album & The “Fire” of Creativity

Timestamp: 21:47–22:43, 40:16–42:06

• Album-making is habitual and process-driven, yet Jono admits he often doesn’t know exactly where the drive arises.
  • “It feels like an endless fire inside... I try not to dictate the terms or the direction too much and I like to let that unfold by itself.” (21:47)
• Uses deadlines—like booking studio time—to ensure creative productivity.

9. Family, Loss, and Legacy

Timestamp: 29:34–31:13, 44:27–45:55

• Jono reflects with gratitude on the formative influence of his brother Stephen, whose encouragement was pivotal.
  • “He was always so supportive... showed me the way, basically.” (29:51)
• On legacy and connection: “There has to be some luck, I think... sibling rivalry could have stunted my growth creatively as well.” (43:15)

10. Views on the Future of Music Consumption

Timestamp: 44:55–45:55

• Hopes for more connection in live music, with performances in “alternative spaces” and for audiences of all ages.
  • “I would like to see live music... more accessible in more alternative spaces, and the human connection aspect to become more important as well.” (44:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s actually a really tricky time with social media... You really have to protect yourself now and it’s so easy to get swallowed up in all the noise...”
  — Jono McCleery [00:11], [23:53]

• “I think it’s much healthier creatively to attempt to sound original with just normal instruments, if you can. I think that’s the way to go.”
  — Jono McCleery [07:27]

• “Not having a plan B is quite a good reason as well. I simply have to make this work somehow. That’s my mindset.”
  — Jono McCleery [35:07]

• “How do I represent myself with these limitations, and it still feels like it’s me? How do I do that? I’ve really enjoyed that.”
  — Jono McCleery [14:58]

• “I try and make the whole process as unconscious as possible... The ideal scenario is feeling good about yourself, hitting the record button and just being as free as possible.”
  — Jono McCleery [12:58]

• “There’s a freedom in limitations.”
  — Radim Malinic [08:05]

• “If you’ve got no plan B, you’re gonna sit out on plan A very well.”
  — Radim Malinic [35:38]

Important Timestamps

• 00:11 / 23:53 — Jono on social media pressures and protecting creative space
• 03:35–05:46 — Early influences, loss, and beginnings with music
• 07:27–08:32 — On creativity, preference for standard tuning, and “the puzzle”
• 12:58 — Embracing the unconscious in songwriting
• 14:58–15:48 — On collaboration, identity in restrictive genres
• 21:47–22:43 — The habitual, “fire inside” nature of creativity
• 29:51 — The profound support and influence of his late brother, Stephen
• 35:07 — “No plan B” as the foundation for resilience
• 38:41 — Revelation during the “Gabriel” cover process
• 44:55 — Vision for the future of live music and human connection

Closing Reflections

Jono McCleery’s creative journey is presented as a continuous navigation between limitation and possibility, intimacy and collaboration, genre and authenticity. The episode is a candid meditation on the creative life—rooted in family, self-knowledge, enduring love of the craft, and faith in the “puzzle” of one’s own artistic process. Listeners are left encouraged to trust their own puzzles, to honor limitations, and to focus on connection—both with themselves and their audience.

For Further Exploration

• Jono McCleery’s discography (solo and collaborations)
• Book: Daring Creativity by Radim Malinic (inspiration for the series)
• Radim Malinic’s website

Summary prepared for listeners seeking a deep, practical, and heartfelt understanding of creative courage through music.