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- [00:01]
A
Hey, welcome to another bonus episode of the Daring Creativity Podcast. This is episode number 21 of this series, and I'm back to unpack some of the gems from this week's conversation, pulling out those moments that deserve a second look and digging deeper in what makes them special. It's about the ideas that hit differently this week. I spoke to Joe Pilger about his world of being a former studio owner to his role now as an advisor to creative studios and production companies. The episode published a few days ago was titled Dare to Lead the Machine and Not Follow It. The whole conversation is packed with his observation of the current state of the industry, how we can navigate it, and how we can find ways to adapt with our souls. If you haven't checked out a full interview yet, let me start with these four moments that stood out from the conversation.
- [00:53]
B
That's interesting you say that, because I've never thought of it in those terms, but I'm thinking of a good buddy I have who ran a studio that was a competitor of mine in Denver. We were really good friends. And I remember he said, you know, I don't really want to work with the advisor, the coach, the consultant, because I want to figure it out on my own. And it's so funny, that stuck with me because I thought, not me, man. If someone has the shortcut, just lay it on me. If you have the mindset that I need, okay, it's going to be painful because I have to open myself up, I have to share, I have to be vulnerable. I have to admit that I don't know what the hell I'm doing. But I've found that getting past that initial pain is really worth it because all of us are going to achieve our goals and our dreams eventually. I just say to myself, well, if I can get there faster with knowledge, with training, with. I don't know, I have coaches in my life, right? This is just a big part of how I live. I have relationship coach, the mental health and soul coach, financial coach, all these things. And these are all people that I say, I don't want to figure it out myself. Can you please help me? So I appreciate that observation.
- [01:56]
A
I appreciate it when Joel said, look, if there is a way to find a way to get through a problem, to find a shortcut, do it, find it. Because for a long time, personally, I very much struggled to open up and say, okay, you know what? There is ways to make it easy for yourself. Because the way we talked about it in a conversation is kind of dismantling the terminology of self made creative genius, or shall we say obsessive and not letting go genius because it's. There's something nice about being almost glorified by the industry by being the lone wolf who figures everything out independently, just works across everything being sort of potentially the curse of the generalist. But all of that leads to a burnout and often business failure. And in Joe's case, his willingness to admit that he needed help after his 2am breakdown, it became the turning point that saved his career. The initial pain he describes as ego death is necessary for growth. When creatives hire coaches, join communities or seek mentorship, they're not showing weakness. They're demonstrating the intelligence to leverage collective knowledge. This accelerates success by years, sometimes even decades. Because the most successful creative business owners aren't the ones who figure it out all alone. In fact, there are the ones who were smart enough to ask for directions. And again, speaking from Joel's and my experience, as soon as you learn to let go, you discover that there's magic. The second standout moment is a three word phrase that kind of stopped me in my tracks.
- [03:55]
B
I'm on a mission to absolutely destroy. It's what Mitch and I call it the prison eater mindset. It's a zero sum thinking, okay? It's the don't talk to me and try and get my secrets because you're going to use them against me. I've seen that attitude. It still exists in certain markets. It's really interesting. Like when I go to Chicago, I'm like, oh yeah, there it is. I go to Dallas, oh yeah, there it is. And I can explain maybe why, but to your point, I will just say 1 billion percent. When you compete with somebody and they win because they're the better fit, or sometimes we just have to be honest, they're better than you are. And I know that stings, but guess what? Everybody who is great at what they do, they didn't become great just because it wasn't by accident. It's because they got pushed. The market demanded it. The clients had bigger, scarier problems. Somebody else figured it out and they got the job. You didn't.
- [04:52]
A
When?
- [04:53]
B
I mean, the sooner we take this radical responsibility and say, man, we all, as an industry, you're telling me the people that aren't using AI and all these really crazy innovative ways, the people that are doing shoots on XR stages and all this crazy, you're telling me they're not making you better, Faster, stronger, more innovative, more creative? You're definitely missing out.
- [05:13]
A
I have never Laughed. It's such a weird quote prison eater mindset. But those words more I've been thinking about them and what I've been looking into them are also known as scarcity thinking. And again, we going back to the previous quote and about the sort of creative genius, like not letting go. The prison eater mindset is potentially killing the creative industry from within because it operates on a false belief that another's creative success diminishes your own. That knowledge that should be hoarded, that competition is a threat rather than a catalyst. This mentality keeps creatives isolated, prevents them from learning from peers, and sometimes creates even toxic markets where everyone races to the bottom on pricing. Joel's mission to destroy this thinking is, let's say, revolutionary because he recognizes the fundamental truth. When your competitor wins because they're better, they force you to improve too. The entire business elevates when knowledge flows freely. So the creatives who embrace collaboration, share insights and celebrate others wins are also the ones building sustainable, fulfilling careers. The prison eaters eventually starve themselves.
- [06:35]
B
Yeah, there's one thought I'm having, which is when I use the word soul, I think I'm challenging myself and all of us with this question of how bad do you really want it? Because the word soul says this is existential, right? To create is to be human and all this. And what I often find is there are many people who purport to, yeah, I want to be great creative and I want to make a lot of money. I want to have a really awesome career. But they don't really want it as badly as the next guy, our girl. And the people who really want it, they are obsessed. There's this inner hunger and tenacity. It's so important. And it's the fuel that of course drives us throughout our career. Now this is where when we go through an era like we're going through right now with things like generative AI, where I'm starting to see the pattern and I'm even looking at historical references. Like when I look at this example of like the Luddites and what happened back in the 1800s, I think of the Arts and crafts movement, which was Morris. And there was this rejection of mass production, which was what it was, the machine of their day. What is AI but the machine of our day? And Morris and the arts and craftspeople rejected the machine.
- [07:50]
A
Adapting with soul is a Joel's blueprint for longevity in an industry that constantly shifts beneath our feet. The quote reveals that soul isn't just about artistic integrity. It's about existential commitment. Many creatives claim they want success, but they want it badly enough to do the uncomfortable work of transformation. They won't travel to meet clients face to face. They won't challenge their client's breeze. They will not close their comfortable but dying business model. Adapting with soul means making business decisions that align with your deepest values and while having the courage to evolve when the market demands it. It's the opposite of blindly chasing trends or stubbornly refusing to change. This philosophy is what allowed Joel to close Impossible Pictures, a painful but soulful decision that led to greater purpose. It's what separates creators who build lasting careers from those who flame out or fade away.
- [08:48]
B
I'm going to get in trouble when I say this. Probably 90% of the illustrators in the world that are have been traditionally been hired because of that specific look. There are clients that are saying, he, hey, AI, create me something that looks like this and boom, there. It's really close. Now part of that is, yes, AI is certainly replacing a certain amount of that work. Also, some of those things are we wouldn't have paid someone to do this anyways. So it's not like there was a project that was lost. It's just that they would have figured out another way to do it. But nonetheless, I think you make an interesting point that when I think of really great famous illustrators, designers, I would say in my experience that they are brought in into the process.
- [09:28]
A
Of course we, of course it was inevitable that our conversation will travel through the AI topic, through some of the parts, because AI anxiety is paralyzing the creative industry. If you allow it, if you allow yourself to be paralyzed by anxiety. Because instead of fear mongering or denial, Joel was drawing a parallel from the Bauhaus movement response to industrialization. The art and craft movement rejected machines and created beautiful work that nobody could afford. The Bauhaus embraced machines and democratized good design for the masses. Today, creators face the same resist AI or become irrelevant or learn to direct it and become indispensable. In this case, illustrators being replaced aren't losing work because AI is better, is because losing work because they position themselves as vendor rather than problem solving experts. The future belongs to creatives who understand that machines amplify human intention but cannot generate it. Your job isn't to compete with AI's execution speed is to prove that the strategic thinking, emotional intelligence and human insights that make the output meaningful. That's the soul the machine needs. And this element goes back to my conversation last week with Vicky Ross about very same AI is not replacing copywriters is the clients that didn't value copy in the first place. They tried to use AI in a way that would potentially replace it only to find out that the input of the real human being is exactly what we need. As I always say, if you haven't checked out a full episode, please do so. It's been another very exciting interview that I cherish to have in this series and thank you for being here and I'll catch you in the next one. If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle including an ebook and audiobook to make the content accessible wherever you are and whatever you do. To get 10% of your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the Code podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.