Podcast Summary: "I Don’t Have a Plan B, I Have to Make It Work"

Podcast: Daring Creativity. Daring Forever.
Host: Radim Malinic
Guest: Jono McCleery (Singer-Songwriter)
Date: November 27, 2025
Episode Theme: The relentless pursuit of authentic creativity and resilience in the modern, digital age, as lived by independent musician Jono McCleery.

Episode Overview

In this introspective bonus episode, Radim Malinic unpacks standout moments from his deep-dive interview with musician Jono McCleery. Malinic explores how McCleery’s unwavering commitment to music—with no fallback or "Plan B"—shapes his artistry and survival in an era of unlimited digital tools and constant social media scrutiny. The conversation spans the emotional realities of creative vocation, McCleery’s unique songwriting process, the importance of limitations, and the pressures modern artists face from a world obsessed with exposure and metrics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. No Plan B: The Power (and Peril) of Full Commitment

• Jono’s Take:

  • “Not having a Plan B and knowing that music is all I’ve got and all I want to really live for—the professional sense, yeah, I simply have to make this work somehow.” (Jono McCleery, 00:59)
  • Jono describes how working in “rubbish jobs” only clarified his need to live for music, not out of recklessness, but necessity.
  • The lack of a fallback becomes a source of resilience, forcing him to treat obstacles as puzzles, not dead ends.

• Radim’s Reflection:

  • “If you don’t have a Plan B, you have to see Plan A through... Sometimes the safety net itself can prevent you from learning to fly.” (Radim Malinic, 01:27)
  • Radim highlights how this single-minded focus sets Jono apart from today’s trend of "diversifying" and sees it as both validating and inspiring for others struggling with creative doubts.

2. The Unconscious Approach to Songwriting

• Jono’s Process:

  • “I try and make the whole process as unconscious as possible... The ideal scenario is feeling good about yourself, hitting the record button and just being as free as possible. Coming back later to observe what you’ve done...” (Jono McCleery, 03:26)
  • Jono allows improvisation and mood to dictate initial recordings; lyrics and overarching themes surface naturally after the fact.

• Radim’s Analysis:

  • Radim likens Jono’s method to “creativity as discovery rather than construction," favoring intuition over calculated design.
  • Emphasizes how this practice liberates artists from overthinking and perfectionism.

3. Embracing Limitations as Creative Catalysts

• Jono’s Experience:

  • “Limitations are so important... I’m kind of glad I got into music before technology really developed... I had a tape, four track cassette... you had to develop a lot of discipline working like this. Otherwise it can be easily overwhelming.” (Jono McCleery, 05:10)
  • The constraints of old-school recording technology forced him to make intentional choices and fostered discipline.

• Radim’s Context:

  • Radim notes that many modern musicians depend on digital “gimmicks” but Jono’s embrace of simplicity leads to more heartfelt work.
  • “Taking what’s given to you can provide you with unlimited outcomes... Simplicity makes you create stuff that’s true from your heart.” (Radim Malinic, 05:45)

4. Navigating Social Media and the Noise of the 21st Century

• Jono’s Reality:

  • “The pressure just to be constantly shouting about yourself on social media... it can really interfere with your creativity... You really have to protect yourself now. So easy to get swallowed up in all the noise and all the pressure to be something to the outside world...” (Jono McCleery, 07:01)
  • Jono struggles with the demand for constant self-promotion, finding it conflicts with the introspective nature of true creativity.
  • He describes a need to “switch mindset” to survive this duality—being both outward-facing for promotion and inward-facing for creation.

• Radim’s Perspective:

  • Radim admires Jono’s honesty here, highlighting that the quantification of success (followers, streams, data) can distort the creative process.
  • He frames Jono’s approach—doubling down on self and craft, not trends—as proof that thriving as an artist now takes resilience, compromise, and empathy.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Artistic Survival:
  “Not having a plan B and knowing that music is all I've got... I simply have to make this work somehow.”
  — Jono McCleery, 00:59

• On the Value of Commitment:
  “Sometimes the safety net itself can prevent you from learning to fly.”
  — Radim Malinic, 01:27

• On Creative Process:
  “I try to make the whole process as unconscious as possible... being as free as possible.”
  — Jono McCleery, 03:26

• On Embracing Limitations:
  “You had to develop a lot of discipline working like this. Limitations are so important.”
  — Jono McCleery, 05:10

• On Social Media Pressures:
  “It’s a horrible thing as a creative person, feeling this pressure to present myself to the world all the time.”
  — Jono McCleery, 07:01

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:59 – Jono on having no Plan B and music as his singular pursuit
• 03:26 – Jono breaks down his unconscious, improvisational songwriting process
• 05:10 – Jono explains the crucial role of limitations in his musical journey
• 07:01 – Jono addresses the creative toll of social media and public expectations

Episode Tone

• Thoughtful, open, honest, and encouraging.
• Both Radim and Jono invite listeners to see creativity not as perfection, but as resilience, openness, and a willingness to embrace uncertainty and vulnerability.

Takeaway:
Jono McCleery’s career is a bold testament to pursuing creativity with uncompromising honesty and resilience. For fellow creatives, his story offers both validation (in the struggle) and inspiration (in the commitment), reminding us that sometimes the daring choice is not to have an exit strategy at all.

For a deeper dive into Jono’s story and creative philosophy, check out the full episode on the Daring Creativity podcast.