← Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
Space, art and finding inner peace through unpredictable creativity - Amanda Mocci
00:57:26
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- [00:01]
Radim Malinich
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- [00:50]
Amanda Mochi
You constantly feel like you're the odd oddball or like you're not fitting in. Very quiet in class. I feel like I only became more outgoing later on and that's a result of knowing how to do something really well and doing something that I love. So that confidence came after. But when I was young, yeah, definitely not confident.
- [01:15]
Radim Malinich
Welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Radi Malinich and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me. In this season, inspired by my book of the same title, I am talking to some of the most celebrated figures in the creative industry. In our candid conversations, my guests shared their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles. How they learned to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career. Thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready? My guest today is a brand identity designer and a portrait artist who runs her studio in Montreal, Quebec. Her training is rooted in graphic design, but her journey has been shaped by self taught passion for portraiture. Her approach balances simplicity with functionality. Deeply influenced by her love of art, music, film and the cosmos. An enduring fascination that often emerges in her work. In our deeply personal conversation, she discusses how her late brother's influence shaped her cosmic inspiration, managing ADHD as a strength and finding a balance between commercial work and personal art. It's my pleasure to introduce Amanda Mochi. Hey Amanda, so nice to have you on the show. How are you doing today?
- [03:00]
Amanda Mochi
Hey, I'm really, really well. Super excited to be here. How are you doing?
- [03:05]
Radim Malinich
I'm good. I'm just excited about having a conversation about the things that you do, how you do them, what's your journey and yeah, see what we can discover. So for those who may have never heard of you, how would you describe Yourself or introduce yourself.
- [03:19]
Amanda Mochi
Okay. My name is Amanda Macchi. I am a brand identity designer. I've been working strictly under my own studio name, so Machi Studio for the last three years. Now. Some people might probably know me better from my portrait illustration. So that's something else that I do. I do branding and I do portraiture as well.
- [03:40]
Radim Malinich
Let's rewind it back to your early childhood and kind of discovery of creativity. What was your way into creativity? Because what you do now is quite diverse and some of it might be for business reasons, some of it might be because your heart and your mind take you in a different direction. So what was the first time you were aware of creativity per se?
- [04:00]
Amanda Mochi
Oh, wow. Okay. Thinking back, I would say it started as early as picking up a pencil, crayon and some paper. We're talking about maybe two, three years old. The time that I really remember precisely was like around the age of four. My mom would actually have a very hard time getting me off the table. When it was time to set the table for supper or for like lunchtime. There was just a bunch of construction paper everywhere, Pencil crayons. I was always cutting up paper, building stuff, drawing things. I wouldn't say that. And obviously as a child, you don't say, oh, this I'm really good at this. And I really wasn't, if I look back. But something happened, I think around 7 years old is I created this little collage in class and all the kids were making fun of it because I was putting these really random details into the image. It was a facial. It was like a little girl, like sewn construction paper. And while everyone was laughing, the teacher was like, hey, this is really interesting. It's interesting that you noticed the lines here on the face or like the way the hair moves or something like that. So I got entered into a competition and I won an art competition. So I think I put a post about this on Instagram somewhere. But it was actually the first time I was recognized for something art related. So it was a little bit of a boost, if you can say that.
- [05:30]
Radim Malinich
That's a true encouragement. You've hit on the balance of having your peers disapproval because for them it's a foreign concept. You're like, what do you mean? What are you doing? Whereas having someone to actually see it properly and encourage you to actually enter in a competition and having that as a feedback, that definitely sounds like it can set you on a path of where you are today. So I'm quite happy that's what happened because sometimes I can't really join the dots and understanding if someone really knows this early what they want to do. I've got two young children, they're all over the place. They do incredible creative things, but you never know where it might take them next. Maybe. Would you say that life a few decades ago was slightly simpler, that you can actually focus more on just for example, art rather than be distracted by tablets, computers, social media, that kind of stuff? Would you say that it helped you to actually focus on what you wanted to do because the world was slightly simpler?
- [06:27]
Amanda Mochi
Oh, I think for myself, if I put myself Obviously in me 100% I am someone that has ADHD. I've been told this. I thought I had it around 20 years old and then as life went on, I actually got diagnosed with it. It's not like a big deal. I think it actually became a strength of mine. So for me, if I was fully surrounded by computers, iPads, like kind of the endless possibilities that we have today, I would have been so overwhelmed and definitely would not have picked up paper and started cutting up paper and started drawing by hand. So not to say like today it's really beautiful what we have and what kids are exposed to and there's so many learning opportunities. But I know that for me, all I can speak is for what I've been through and the experiences that I have had. So I think for me that focus was everything I needed to become who I am today.
- [07:26]
Radim Malinich
It's interesting that you mentioned your ADHD diagnosis. Before you got diagnosed at the age of 20, did you feel different? Did you feel, did anyone have any remarks about your way of creating or having a sort of hyper focus? Was there any signs? Because we now get to understand a bit more what ADHD means. And I had this wonderful conversation with Ben Talon and he is very much knee deep in understanding creative condition and creative humanity. Like how we perceive the work we do. And he said, is the high frequency and reward. Is that what draws us into creativity? Which was so beautifully put and easily explained because when you've got that sort of condition, you actually look for these opportunities all the time and try to find this sort of pocket of energy. But you can explore, unlike the kids that would not understand it. So with adhd, did anyone made you realize that before your diagnosis that could be your condition?
- [08:29]
Amanda Mochi
Yep, I was definitely different. Definitely felt like a black sheep in school really from the beginning of elementary, I completely suck at math. So is it like awful so that I like ruled out so many opportunities, I think from the very beginning and I'm 38 now. So at that time, like we're Talking about early 90s, I feel like if you weren't good in math in school, they would kind of like say, okay, what are you doing? And it made you feel like you stood out as like a black sheep. We were doing like math drills and I feel like I would just get looks from my teacher and being like manda really? Come on. But I know now that I jumble numbers and I flip numbers all the time. So, okay, I have to put that aside and I need to focus on something that I'm actually good at. But when you're in elementary, it's extremely hard to know what that is because you haven't lived yet. You're like between 7, 10 years old, 12 years old. So, yeah, I would say a lot of remarks were like, oh, she's so spaced out, she's in the moon. Funny enough is that I have a tattoo like about that and I have the moon on it and it's a reminder of being spaced out. And being labeled on the moon is actually a good thing for me. So I just always look at it. I'm like, okay, this is who I am and I have to just own that. But yeah, to go back to your question, I definitely had a feeling. I like something was off. So there's definitely a bit of stress that comes into play is like when we don't know a lot at that age of like what is going on. You constantly feel like you're the oddball or like you're not fitting in, very quiet in class. I feel like it only became more outgoing later on and that's a result of knowing how to do something really well and doing something that I love. So that confidence came after. But when I was young, yeah, definitely not confident. Feeling like an oddball, not good in math. You get the picture.
- [10:35]
Radim Malinich
Yeah. What you describe is almost like the movies we see from the 90s, like we see from that time. Like you have that someone who stands out too much and they get picked on because they get misunderstood because you got the popular kids and you got the Abercrombie kids and whatever. And it's just like when we look back, that was still the age of innocence. Because you could be, as you say, on the moon, can actually enjoy just be in your own world. Because at that time we could actually do it. Because now being in a hyper connected world, the messaging or bullying or trolling and that kind of stuff is so much more multiplied and so stronger that we've all had Bad share of misunderstanding from various people. But when you look back, is it liberating to actually unpick experience and make peace with it?
- [11:27]
Amanda Mochi
I would say yes, 100%. I look at it as a strength and I see it as if things would have been different if it would have happened differently. My path would have been completely different from every second, from every hour of the day, from every week. It potentially, if I always say, actually, and I have this a lot on, I'll post a lot about this. But if I was good in math, I would try to become an astronaut. That was always my dream. And work somewhere with NASA or a SpaceX or something. But that was not the case. So for me, going through this experience is like the cosmos is like such a big thing for me and it's where I get a lot of my inspiration. And I've just turned that into art without having the strength of math or science. Yeah, I think that those things that have happened, I don't want to call them struggles, but maybe at the time they were. And now I see them as strengths.
- [12:25]
Radim Malinich
Let's take you to the moon for a second. I know from knowing your work, knowing you, that there's this huge theme of outer space. So we know when the paper and crayons and the industrial paper came into your life. But connection to the outer space and the moon and beyond, when did that, let me call it obsession. When did the obsession came into your life? And how.
- [12:49]
Amanda Mochi
I have to thank my brother for this, actually, because from probably when I could see and look up at the sky, he would constantly call out, like, oh, there's Jupiter. That's Mars. Oh, did you see that constellation? Oh, do you know how big Jupiter is? Do you know how many Earths could fit into Jupiter? These random facts. And we were very similar. Like, he also had a lot of attention. I don't want to say adhd. Yeah, he was definitely there. But it made him so creative in that sense. He was the one who definitely introduced me to that side. And I think because we're like sponges when we're kids, as you have children, and they pick up on everything, like the beginning of their life. That was definitely something that stayed with me. And I guess as I started, yeah, like working in design and then art, it was like a. Basically the root of the tree of where I drew all my inspiration from.
- [13:47]
Radim Malinich
That's remarkable. How much older was your brother?
- [13:50]
Amanda Mochi
So my brother was 11 years older than me. He actually passed away, though. He passed away in 2005. So I was just shy of turning 19. But, yeah, he was like, just a huge part of my creativity.
- [14:06]
Radim Malinich
Yeah. Every time I read that story, it just makes me almost physically feeling like how losing someone so close, especially so inspiring and so poignant in your life. I did read somewhere that at that time, you were to double down around the age of 18 on your art skills and your portraiture, because not only you worked five hours or work on your skills five hours after school, but also you worked 15 hours, had weekends, which is remarkable. And I think that sort of focus, that hyper focus, I guess we now know it was DHD that got you driven into that corner of your creativity. What did it feel like to be dealing with your grief and having that outlet to just let it all out?
- [14:54]
Amanda Mochi
Yeah, I think no one really gives you a manual for how to deal with grief, especially when you're in your late teens. And we were all going through a very difficult time. And I was a type to. To bottle things up. So I felt like I needed to find some sort of an outlet. And the way it started was really that my brother always encouraged me to try different things. And he was always very proud of what I would do, what I would accomplish in school, even though it wasn't always fantastic, but he was always so encouraging that after he passed away, I remember thinking back to a time where I had the opportunity to try and draw a face like we're talking about just in a sketchbook. And I was literally terrified. And I think it just comes back to this perfectionist mentality where I'm like, oh, no, I'm not going to get this right the first go. It's almost like I needed to have a masterpiece, like, at the first go, right? And I tried it, and I was, like, so upset. So I just put it aside and I never touched it again. Even though my family's. I see, like, you're really good in art. And then winning that little competition when I was seven years old, But I just put it aside completely. And then I remember I was literally sitting in my room and really washed over with grief. And I thought to myself, what? My brother was 30 when he passed, so still quite young, still had a lot to live for. And I would think about what he wouldn't be able to do and what he probably wanted to do and what he would encourage me to do. That was at the moment where I said, you know what? What do I have to lose? I'm here, I'm living, I'm breathing. Today I'm going to sit down and draw a Face. It sounds ridiculous, but I'm like, why am I so scared? Let's do this. Took some pencils out. I really didn't have anything special at the time. Just some loose leaf and I started doodling. And at that moment I'm like, okay, this actually feels really nice because it got me into this. I want to almost like a meditation state. Anxiety just went away and the stress went away. And for a moment it was like me, the paper, the pencils, the feeling of the pencil on the paper. And then slowly a face started to emerge. It wasn't fantastic, but it was something that I'm like, I feel like I could push this a little bit and maybe it could turn into something. Maybe it's just the past time again. The ADHD starts to kick in and I'm like, where can this go? I was like overthinking so many things in that moment, but it was like, how can I just be present with this right now? How does it make me feel? Is it good? Is it bad? Okay, it feels good. Let's continue with this. And after that I kept going because I noticed like the feeling of grief was just not slipping away. But it was was quieter. If I have to put a word to it, it was just a lot quieter. And day after day I got home from school and I was in design school at the time, so I would do my design homework. But then something was pulling me towards just get a piece of paper out and just get some charcoal sticks out and just start working with pencils. So that's how I've slipped into that. And that's how I started spending 15 hours on the weekends instead of maybe going out with my friends.
- [18:32]
Radim Malinich
I think that's an amazing story. How to deal with grief and how to potentially have still conversation with your brother through your arts and through his legacy that he left through your mind and body and spirit in a way that, as you said, like dealing with grief and the anxiety sort of going away by actually focusing on being present in the moment, not channeling your energy through pencil and paper because you are having, with every stroke, you're having a conversation with him and taken aback when you self stay in the present moment. Because in moments of grief, you want to escape it, you want to go back, or you can not be in the present moment. So actually to be focused, hyper focused on that, I think it's quite a manifestation of how much of a sort of gratitude to life you had at that moment. And saying, what can I do? I'm still here. What shall I do, and I think that was there. I want to know the next piece of puzzle. You talked about drawing faces and looking for perfection. Those two things could easily go together, like drawing faces. And being very good at it is very freaking hard. So can we talk about why it was the portraiture? What was about it that made you obsessed?
- [19:49]
Amanda Mochi
We'll be back after a quick break.
- [19:52]
Radim Malinich
If you're enjoying this podcast and would like more support and information on your creative journey, you can pick up one of my books to help you do just that. My titles cover branding, graphic design, illustration all the way to career business advice with ideas how to navigate the highs and lows of the creative process. You can pick up signed paperbacks at no extra cost from my store@nobmberuniverse.co.uk and we are shipping worldwide use code podcast for extra 10% off your order and you can find the links in the show notes. Any day should be a new book day.
- [20:37]
Amanda Mochi
I think it was a few things I always, obviously I love music. Even when I was young, I was so drawn to different bands and different types of music, and I think I started to idolize some of these band members, these musicians. So the first thing I was falling into with actually drawing specific people, specific musicians, because of how the music made me feel. So I wasn't like, oh, okay, I've listened to this on the radio. The song's okay, I'm gonna draw this person because they're popular. No, it wasn't more that it was like, I love Radiohead. They're my favorite band. So the way they construct their music, the way they compose everything, it just made me want to draw them. And there is also a part of the face that is capturing. I think it's the eyes. So I started to obsess about the eyes and getting that right before anything else because I feel like that was the most important part of does this look real? So it's almost like as long as the eyes are right, I feel like everything is going to connect. Like the mouse could be a little bit off, but I needed to have the eyes right. And I think that comes back to emotion and showing emotion and really what is this person feeling in the portrait? And maybe it ties back to how I was feeling at the moment, but I think that was really important for me to get that emotion right. So again, we're talking about, like hours of practice. I always think I fast forwarded, like the. I still have a lot to learn, but I fast forwarded that learning process because of the amount of time it Would spend just testing and failing over and over again and trying to get it right.
- [22:21]
Radim Malinich
Did you have any help? Is it pre YouTube tutorials or is it. Have you had some tuition or how did you. Of course you're naturally talented. As you said, like hours and hours of getting it right. Did you look for shortcuts or did you look for techniques, how to get it right?
- [22:38]
Amanda Mochi
You know what, I look at it today and I think how amazing it is that there are so many tutorials out there, that there's so much to learn. I think I might be overwhelmed by how much there is to learn right now. So I'm a bit thankful that no, I didn't have that before. I didn't have the way Instagram is today. I didn't have that. I didn't have YouTube. I think it was like just starting, but there wasn't a lot of that available. Where I started learning was a lot of trial and error, crazy mistakes that seem like whatever, but literally putting my hand on the face while I'm drawing and then saying, oh no, like I just smudged all of the pencil. Okay, let me put a paper on top next time. Like these random little failures that led to what I do now. I think if I would have had a step by step tutorial from someone, I don't think I would have trial and tested as much as I did today. And I think that's why I literally fell into almost every medium, starting with pencil, then going to charcoal, then going to Conte, then going to gouache, then going to acrylic, then going to oil. And now I work a lot on the iPad, so I work a lot digitally, which is a whole other conversation we could get into after. But yeah, I think if I would have had a kind of tutorial on all this, I probably wouldn't have done all those tests.
- [24:09]
Radim Malinich
I think you're very right. I think there was something about that bit of not knowing. I was just working it out bit by bit because it's almost like you can now turn to any content to any answer. I need an answer to this. Here's the answer. Now we've got AI assistants, Google Gemini or ChatGPTs and it's just, it's not even right. It's there, it does something, but it just spits out some nonsense. I think again, looking Back to the 90s is the best decade on the planet, full of stuff. When this thing runs out of whatever it does, that'll be like the 90s, that was the best bit. But looking through those pieces and putting them together and honing your craft and working it out, I think that's almost like that capsules for longevity. And if you try to build it to the outer space, I think it just, it gives you something more like, I think that's more intrigue because it's much easier, I would say now to be distracted. But I keep talking on this podcast, like, have we found a foundation? We've almost taken away this sand pit and we've given it pretty much like an army sort of weapons grade tools. Like, you want this, click this button. You want this, click this button. You want to know this, follow this. And I think it's just question, okay, if we got these basics so sorted, what is it that people can do? Like, it's almost like steroid compost. We can just grow, plant the seeds and they grow twice as fast and do one more amazing things. The question is, can the human mind actually understand all of this? Because the narrow pool of options, the freedom and limitations was much more rewarding. Because how do you even choose now what you want to be? Because you can be anything and you can change. And I'm a big advocate of you can change every year what you want to do. If it doesn't make you happy, change, do this and that. However, I think as humans, we only go one speed of understanding how this stuff can work. So I don't know what the answer is. I don't even know what the question was anymore. But it's like scaling things down is so much harder now than it ever was. So maybe we can count ourselves lucky.
- [26:14]
Amanda Mochi
I feel like we're. We were in this golden era, like when we were young. I just wish kids today can have a piece of what we felt when we just started out or when we started out our careers or when we went to school or all that stuff. But I just feel like right now, for me, I would be so overwhelmed. And I am overwhelmed sometimes. And I have moments where I could spend months just not crafting anything and just being in this stationary feeling of, oh my God, I need to learn something, I need to learn something new. Or I start questioning my skills because you see things constantly being thrown at you. Here's a new way of doing this, a new way of doing that, to the point that I feel like if I fell asleep for a month, I would be completely lost. And it's an overwhelming feeling. And this is me. I'm talking about myself. But I start to question a lot of my abilities and can I shade well anymore? Maybe I'm losing it, or am I still a good designer? And then I take to the Internet, and I start searching things, and then I'm like, whoa. Okay, Amanda, hold on a second. Let's take a deep breath, and let's, like, go back. So when you just started, what did you have? Oh, I had a pencil. What was it? It was hb. What kind of paper did you have? It was paper, like, literally asking myself these questions and how basic it was, and I was doing just fine. And I feel like I was more creative in the past than I am now. So it's an interesting thing. It's like, I feel like I hone my craft better. I'm definitely not there yet. And I'm also excited about where the next years are gonna take me, because obviously, with more and more time, you get better and better, but the creativity sometimes is hard to come by. And there are definitely some days where I feel very drained, almost, like exhausted. Like, why am I so tired? I slept eight hours last night. Or I slept all week. I'm eating fine, and then I just look at what I've consumed. And I think it was Ben, actually, because I listened to that episode, which was fantastic, and he talked about the high frequency. Right. Of how everything is being thrown at you. I feel like sometimes, yeah, you just need to, like, step away. There needs to be some sort of a detox and questioning what's right for you and what's right for your mindset right now, and not so much looking at what is everyone else doing right now and what's good to do right now. So that's tricky. Is like looking in oneself and asking what you need versus what does everyone else need?
- [29:05]
Radim Malinich
I think you're right there. On the second episode of this podcast, it was Jim O'Brien who said that procrastination is our way to deal with reality, which is our bodies and mind telling us, like, just hold back. Just basically just take a break. You mentioned this beautiful sense, beautiful phrase, stationary feeling. And it's a thing might be hard to achieve and hard to accept it, but so rewarding to actually go through it just to tell yourself, you know what? When I look back to what I had in the past, it's still what I need today. I think that's the remarkable thing when we actually remind ourselves that's scaling things down, looking at really, the core of our sources of happiness is what we need. And it's. Yeah, I think it's what you can see as potentially, like, a negative state. Like, I'm in a stationary State makes me feel like a sort of space, gaps. It's just orbiting. It's happy, it's moving around. Is it happy? It's in a stationary state. But I think it's something that should be more encouraged just to be. Because. Yeah, as you said, like you learning so much and you feel like you need to learn something new, but how about an audit of what you've done so far? How about audit of actually looking at your work, going, I should done well here because we think we should have endless portfolios. We should feel like we have to work every day, we should post every time and it's exhausting. And then what do we do when we've done all of this? We complained about how exhausted we are because we've done everything to exhaust ourselves. Crazy, right?
- [30:34]
Amanda Mochi
Yeah, it's so crazy. The human psychology is actually. It's so special how we are as beings and what we need to do to feel okay. If we were alone, first of all, that would not be good. Right. I feel like we all need human connection, but the idea of comparing is so present and it happens from such a young age too. Right. Like you see it in kids. Like they'll look at adults and then they start to move like them. Right. And we, we do that later on in life, especially as creatives. It's easy to look at the successes of other people or like styles and say, oh, wow, like that's obviously. It's super amazing. I'm always so happy when I see someone is posting about their successes and like a new style that they're testing out. But then it's easy to fall into. Maybe I should do that too. And why not just stop and be where you are? No, no, Amanda, remember you said today you're going to rest and, or you're going to open your sketchbook and doodle today, like not serious work. Take that time for yourself. We have that luxury too. I find working for ourselves is. We don't necessarily have to do that nine to five. So grilling ourselves and saying, oh no, I took a three hour break instead of a half an hour break today. That's fine, we needed that. So it's just really about looking in oneself and feeling. What do you need today?
- [32:00]
Radim Malinich
I think what we do as creatives, we don't always have a plan and we feel proud because we don't have a plan. But the people with plan succeed because they've got milestones and markers and they know what they need to do to achieve their goal and actually achieve their plan. Whereas Mostly creative starts their creative endeavors or businesses because they want to do the thing and be paid for it. I don't really want to do the other beds, but just let's focus on the creative bit because I want to do that. Virgin itself is a remarkable privilege of our lives. Not many people before could have just want to draw or leave me alone. And by the way, I don't want to deal with the business and don't do that. So did you ever feel like your endurance is there because you were working on it? How do you see it?
- [32:48]
Amanda Mochi
Yeah, a thousand percent. I am a patient person, but there are certain things, like learning a new craft, that I tend to get impatient, or if I see something is starting to go really well, I'm like, oh, great, so the next part is going to be even better. And then sometimes it's not. There's a failure associated to that next part. And you have to be okay with that. It's interesting that you were talking about sports coaching, because I feel like people going to the gym have a very similar outcome. Whereas they're like, I want a great body and I want to look like this. If usually when that happens, I think, what is it? I forget what the percentage is. But two months in, it fails and people just go home and they don't use the rest of their membership. Whereas if you actually connected back to what was the reason that you started this? Was it to feel good? Yes, it could. Looking good could be a component, obviously. But what's really the route that is going to keep you going and longer once you keep that in mind, you're gonna keep going and you're gonna make it into a habit and it's gonna just become muscle memory. Right. I said the same thing when I started drawing because at some point, like oil specifically was so challenging. And there were nights, because I would usually do this stuff at night, I just would want to throw my brush across the room and I'm like, I can't do this. What am I doing? Where am I? Like questioning life at that point. And I just couldn't get the technique. So I put the brush down and I would think, usually I would go to bed because it was like probably three in the morning at this point. And I would think about this. It was almost like a meditation before going to sleep is what am I trying to achieve here? And connect back to the feeling of why I started in the first place. And then I let that sink in and then the technique would slowly come to me over my sleep. It was very Interesting. So I'd wake up and go to the canvas and then it would just work. It was almost like I needed to take space from this and then telling myself, okay, I don't want fame, obviously, I'd love to live with this, I'd love to turn this into a career. But the point is not to get likes, it's not to become ultra famous. It's because I want to feel at peace. I want to do something that I really love and that makes me feel good. Connection back to my brother as well. Like, that's such a huge. That's like my North Star. And once I think about that, it's like once the mind just calms down, everything just connects again and it becomes so much simpler and so much easier. And then that patience comes in and that whole 12 week step becomes a lot easier.
- [35:37]
Radim Malinich
What you described is us growing neuron pathways. So you cannot learn to play guitar in an afternoon. Like, you literally need to play a bit, go to sleep. And that's where we use the expression I need to sleep on it. Because, yeah, we have those sort of clearance. We grow new pathways, it starts making more sense and then it just becomes easier and easier. And I think what's really interesting is actually when, if we were to step away from that technique for, let's say a week because you couldn't paint and you come back to it and you actually have time to think about what you're going to do. And I think it's a huge privilege to actually have time to think about creativity because we want to do the thing all the time, right? Especially at the beginning. And then when you find yourself through your life challenges and parenting and running a business and stuff, you don't have the time to be creative all the time. Your time to think increases and your time to create decreases. But it becomes more rewarding because what we do at the beginning, which could be trying to find ourselves and we explore extra options that would normally now be discarded. By the time that you get to draw something, you're like, okay, I know what I want to do. This years ago, that would be a 3 o'clock finish, full of unhappiness, thinking, I need to try more and more and more. I think that sort of maturity and creative space and creative mindset is so valuable. So I think that hardship is necessary. I think knowing that need to throw the brush across the room or feeling like it is essential because again, if it was easy, would you still be doing it?
- [37:11]
Amanda Mochi
The simple answer, definitely not. It's so interesting what you're saying, because I think today we try to take shortcuts very often and especially that we're being spoon fed a lot of information. And if you look at the content that's being put out, it's like they have an end goal too. Their end goal is to show their work, to get likes and also to spread their creativity to others. But I think the hardship is so necessary. Like you said, it makes us who we are. And if we wouldn't encounter failures at the beginning, the minute we encounter a failure later on when it comes up, we might go into meltdown mode. Oh my God, what is this? What am I facing right now? This is so new. But if you face it at the very beginning, it just makes it so much easier later on to adapt and to change.
- [38:02]
Radim Malinich
I think we're growing our resilience, I think through a lot of time. So you mentioned that you do portraiture, but you also mentioned your design business and you mentioned recently, not in one of your interviews, that this is your third attempt running a business. Have I got it right?
- [38:21]
Amanda Mochi
Yep.
- [38:21]
Radim Malinich
So let's talk about what happened in 1, 2 and what's happening with 3. What was your first iteration of your business? Why didn't it work? Second time? Why didn't it work and what did you do to counter it? And how is it working out now on the third try?
- [38:34]
Amanda Mochi
So first attempt was straight out of school. I got a part time job as a designer, but it was considered freelance. So three days a week for one year and I was doing design work on the side I was drawing. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I think I was a bit confused too because I really wanted to be a graphic designer. And I love design like so much. I love print, I love working with typography and now brand identities, like actually building brands for companies and individuals. At the time I didn't know that, but I was just passionate about the craft. And then I would draw too on the side for magazines, for books. So all that while working with a company. I think I was just splitting myself up too much and I wasn't putting enough focus on my own business, which led it to fail. And I say this in the most positive way, but for good reason, because then I just. It got stronger the next time I tried it. So the reason why I actually stopped it is I got offered a job, a full time job. It was very hard to turn down the salary, especially when you're young. I took it and after two and a half years I was like, okay, I learned a lot, but something's just pulling me to try my own thing again. I do this a lot, and I think that's why I run my business, is because I love working with so many different types of clients. I feel like working for one company just wasn't me. I don't want to say boring. I was getting a little bit bored of the type of work that was given to me then. Now we get to the third time is I started to label myself actually as Machistudio because I felt like maybe labeling myself as a studio is going to put me a little bit more in a professional mindset as, like, less of a freelancer and more of a collaborator. And the ability to also reach out to other creatives to work with me on different projects. Mostly brand identity projects, because illustration, it would be solely me doing it. Unless, obviously, the project called, for example, for, like, your coffee company, you hired an illustrator to have that specific style. Those are the type of illustrators that I would hire. And again, every time I felt like I was failing, I feel like going back to a company to work for 9 to 5. It just made the feeling so that much stronger. I'm like, hmm, okay. I learned more about business. I learned more about managing my time, more about accounting, more about failing, more about being a creative director. I worked my way up from the design to senior designer, art director, creative director. And that was a really interesting one for me is because, like, actually managing a team. And I felt like that was the moment three years ago that I could break away and do this myself. And in three years, it's been fantastic. But I've also had some very hard moments where the thought definitely comes back to my mind, hmm, do I go back to a 9 to 5? Do I work for a company? And I don't even have time to finish that sentence. And I'm just like, no, I can't. I can't do that. Like, everything I work towards over the last 15 years, I don't want to throw that away. And I feel like it has a connection as to what you were saying before is going through. That hardship just builds you up, builds up resilience to that point where you're going to hit rock bottom. But it's okay. Like, you keep going and there's a hard moment, but it enables you to get really creative about, like, how you can get contracts and how you can connect with different people. Yeah. And then expand your business. So that's been a nutshell. I hope that made sense.
- [42:32]
Radim Malinich
Absolutely. Absolutely. I can Say that the hard moments, no one's immune to those, no one's got assaulted, that it's all fantastic sunshine and ice cream every day, every week, every month, every year. Like everyone goes through ups and downs. And this particular season has been a revelation of talking to some people who are super established, super known. Some of them don't work for six months a year, but they've got time to do other things. But it just reinstates that human sort of element of what we do, that we see people through the lens of social media, through their newsletters. And I can let you believe by the things that we do and we don't do. I can choose my narrative, how I put it out there. Because no one knows what anybody else does. Day to day we tell ourselves that, oh, everybody's got it great. Well, they fucking don't. Everyone breaks, everybody cries the same, everybody stresses the same way. It's still a survival instinct for all of us. I think that sort of element of scarcity of resources, when you let yourself believe that what it is out there, we are designated squarespace, no squares, shapes on Instagram or whatever, and there's only X amount of people you can see, then that will lead you to the wrong path. Because I've been doing this for more than 20 years on my own. And to bring it back to the moon, analogy and theme, sometimes the tide is out, sometimes the tide is out, but it will just come back. It just goes in and it goes out. Because I can tell you that even at my sort of mature, ripe working age, no one's immune. When you think about what's the other option. And you said it perfectly, like you don't even let yourself finish that thought.
- [44:14]
Amanda Mochi
I.
- [44:14]
Radim Malinich
Don't be silly. How lucky we are that we can create our own life, we can work hard and we can make this work. Because what you described through your journey of illustrator, designer, art director, creative director, that takes you back to your 18 year old self or 7 year old self, like you're working it out just like everybody else. And then we've got a choice of do we want to drive our own destiny or do we want somebody else to tell us what to do? And you got two options. And some people are just happy to follow. Okay, you know what? I want to go home in 5 o'clock and do whatever I like. They might be starting, there's creative careers later or doing something completely different. But when you get, I think so passionately obsessive about what could be and what should be, then it's going to bring those ups and downs. And sometimes we need to understand that they both in the same amount of supply because we think the creativity should be easy, but if it was, we would really lose the interest quite quickly. So that's pretty much been like the theme of our conversation. There needs to be waves, the boat loop needs to be rocked. And because of that, we're going to find solutions how to actually keep it on straight. So through your love of storytelling and through your love of music and through your love of Radiohead, what's why your inspirations now Radiohead still present. Have you moved on to. What is it called? Smile now the next man. Smile at the smile.
- [45:39]
Amanda Mochi
The smile. It's extremely present and I think it goes back to rooted memories of when we were sponges, when discovering. For me, discovering music at such a young age. And I say the privilege of having older siblings who have an older sister as well and having like 70s and 80s rock music present in the house helped so much. And discovering like Radiohead at 12 years old, where I was the only one listening to that when in school when everyone was listening to like, pop albums and I secretly was like, yeah, I don't like pop. I would much prefer more of a heavier kind of deep, lyrical music. So I think the connection that I have with music is really definitely around the lyrics. That's the first thing I listen to because that's really what inspires me for my work. Equally designed as. Equally as illustration and portraiture. There's words that I connect with while I'm listening to this. I'm like, ooh, that's good. That could maybe be a title of a piece, like a portrait piece, or maybe like a design piece that I'm gonna be working on. But it's also how the music makes me feel. So I find I tend to go for this, like, maybe more unpredictable music. Whereas, like pop and forget what book this is. Oh, yeah, your brain on music. And I can't remember who wrote it. Very interesting book. It's really based on the psychology of, like, how your brain reacts to the music that you're listening to and how mostly people love listening to pop because it's predictable. Like, you hear the beat, you understand, you know the buildup, you know what's coming next. But whereas, like Radiohead, for example, is extremely unpredictable. And I love that I'm actually on the opposite end where I don't know if that's left or right brained, I forget what it is, but I love that unpredictableness and having it on Having it playing while I'm working, which I still do. So there's still certain albums that I'll listen to when I start drawing, because I remember how I used to feel like when I first started drawing, listening to these albums, just having that play makes my work unpredictable. So it throws me off a little bit. I'm like, okay, don't be such a perfectionist here. And then I talked to myself. I'm like, remember you wanted to put, like, this random colored paint stroke? Like, this album is going to help you do that. So, yeah. And I feel if I was just listening to maybe the radio, that wouldn't happen. No offense to radio music. It's still good, but it's just not for me. Right. I love listening to movie scores as well. That's a massive one for me. Interstellar is probably my favorite film ever. And I don't remember how many times I've listened to the album, like, on repeat. Like, I even bought the vinyl. It's so beautiful. It's so epic. And it's one that I often put on when I'm working, when I'm drawing. Actually, one small story I wanted to mention related to this is, I think it was in university, we had an art class. And it was arts. It's not where I learned how to draw, but this. These classes definitely helped me. There were, like, live art sessions. And my teacher, sometimes she would look at my work, and it was a French school, so she was like, hmm. I could tell that the music wasn't good last night. Like, just by looking at the work, she was like, hmm, this is not as unpredictable as you normally are. It's not as fluid. What were you listening to? And I'm like, that's really. What do you mean? I could tell. I feel like your work is normally a little bit more fluid, a bit more dynamic. And then when I actually thought back, I was like, I wasn't listening to anything. I was just trying to get the project done. So that was something that actually stayed with me, is whatever I'm listening to and whatever. Even the mood that I have in the room or the feeling helps so much with the work that I'm creating.
- [49:36]
Radim Malinich
What we're discussing here is the feeling, how the music makes us feel. Like, how art makes us feel. Because you write about when the music is familiar, but it's unpredictable because it's not linear. If you don't start listening to radio and song and thinking, I will know the chorus by the third time, I will be singing along. No, you're Not. There's this guy called Rick Bajata who like takes the songs part on YouTube and there's a fifth, there's a seventh, there's a ninth, and he just goes in. Like when I was in the band, when we were young, we were like, let me see what I can do with this. How it shouldn't be used. I think that was the whole idea of this is a straight chord and you move your fingers and it sounds weird. And that's also fucking brilliant. And I think that's focused lens on what you're trying to achieve by distorting things and pushing them into directions then potentially where never be, never meant to be in that way. I just love what you're telling me. I just wish that lots of people can actually experience it and they kind of go through those motions because having that feeling when the music starts to play and you feel your hands or your arms going to go in, up. And I've lost a friend who wasn't trying to be famous. He stuck with the music. We were in the band when I was 17, 16, he suddenly passed away kind of early 40s a few years ago. And I did an album cover for him and it's just been put on Spotify. And I was listening to it and I was like, even though I've had the album so many times, and I looked at the work, which was done in 2007, could have been better, but it was that connection between the music and predictable unpredictability because their music wasn't straightforward. And he was one of the most amazing poets in my lifetime. My absolute pleasure to have been in his lifetime and mine. You're like, this is brain food. This is something that stays with you for so long. Yeah. I just really. I don't know how to even describe it. Just this feeling that you can get lost with your craft through the sort of sensory experience. Yeah. Wow.
- [51:32]
Amanda Mochi
It's undescribable. It was so beautiful, what you said. It's undescribable and you need to sit with this moment and try to live it for yourself and see. And some people don't connect with it as they connect with it differently. For them it's just a song. But like you said, that chill and that. Oh, that feeling. And it's different every time. I think it's so beautiful and I wish everyone could feel that because it's really incredible. I wanted to add that. That's why.
- [52:02]
Radim Malinich
Thank you. It's beautifully said. I'm sure there's just different ways and different Feelings. What do we know about people in 70s, 60s and have felt and centuries before? But before I let you go, where's Amanda going next? Do you have a plan? Do you have a 12 week plan, six months plan, or a year plan?
- [52:21]
Amanda Mochi
As a business owner, I should, I really should. And I have what I'd like to call a loose plan, like a very happy loose plan. So it's something that I have actually pinned to my wall. When I get up in the morning and I start my day, I look at it and I call it the milestones that I'd like to achieve. Those things might happen in a couple of weeks, they might happen in a month or a year, but I'd like for them to happen in one year. Usually that's the goal for me is whatever I write, and I don't write too many things, there's like kind of four pillars, let's say, let's say for 20, 24, and then I'll move on to the next year. But if those things don't happen, I'm not upset because I know that whatever else happened during the month or the year has led me to learn new things, has led me to where I am today. And whether it's slow periods, whether it's extreme high periods, where I'm like stressed out of my mind but still loving the craft and loving what I'm doing and learning how to manage my time properly, like all these things are leading to growth at the end of the day. So I guess to answer your question, really my pillars are growing, my business taking more brand identity projects, always connecting back to really. Like, I don't have a specific type of client that I like to work with, but I think at the root of it, it's clients that are change driven, want to make a difference in the world and really have a story to tell. So for me, story is a huge component of branding because it's not just about what looks good on paper and visually, but it's like, what's the root of it? What's the gold that we can dig out? The gold of storytelling and for art, I would say that I took a backseat and this was a hard one because juggling both things in my business was becoming very difficult. So I started to not look for illustration clients, but just create art for myself and just put out art when it feels right and use art almost as a balance for what I do in the day. Whereas more computer work or just sketching out logos and concepts. I feel like sometimes, let's say that starts to get, like a lot heavy, you know, and whatnot. I know that I need to move on to paper and start drawing or move on to my iPad and do a portrait. So there needs to be this kind of balance. Whereas before, I always had to have an answer is like, what do I want to do later on? Do I want to be a brand designer? Do I want to be an illustrator? Do I want to be both? I don't need to answer that. I just want to do what feels right. And I think I've realized that over the years, this formula right now is what feels right now. It could happen that I have a client that maybe approaches me and wants me to do a portrait for them, for a column or for an article or a book cover. If the project is aligned, I'll definitely take it.
- [55:19]
Radim Malinich
I think what you said, I think it's such a healthy mindset now because you can be what you want to be at that moment, where you want it to be, rather than what you should be. So I remind you of the two words that you said at the beginning of this conversation. You said, it's about endless possibilities, and I think being open to it, knowing it comes at the right time. I think that's a gift. You mentioned the word growth, which again, is very much applicable to all of this, because when you allow yourself to go through these turmoils, let the tide out and let it come back in and high tide, it just builds you as a person. So, Amanda, I just absolutely love this conversation. Thank you for spending your time with me today and keep on doing what you're doing. I think it's remarkable knowing more about how you do it and why you do it makes me appreciate it even more. Thank you.
- [56:06]
Amanda Mochi
Thank you so much. It was honestly such an honor and a privilege to be here and to catch up. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.
- [56:15]
Radim Malinich
Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, or even suggestions. So please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinich. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by Neil McKay from 7 Million Bikes podcast, and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time or you're a regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provide them with value. So thank you for helping out. Thank you.