The value of adaptability in creative entrepreneurship - Alex Suchet

Summary

Mindful Creative with Radim Malinic
Episode: The Value of Adaptability in Creative Entrepreneurship - Alex Suchet
Release Date: March 9, 2025

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Mindful Creative, host Radim Malinic welcomes Alex Suchet, an Executive Producer and the founder of the digital production agency Mystery Box. Alex brings a wealth of experience, having collaborated with prestigious brands like Samsung and Mercedes Benz. The conversation delves into the critical importance of adaptability in creative entrepreneurship, the value of authentic relationships, and the balance between money, freedom, and happiness.

Alex Suchet's Background and Journey

Alex begins by sharing his unconventional path into the creative industry. Unlike many founders who start as designers or developers, Alex describes himself as the "conductor of an orchestra," orchestrating diverse talents without being an expert in any single domain.

Alex Suchet [04:08]: “I always say that I'm the conductor of an orchestra, but I don't play the strings or the woodwind.”

His journey started as a TV production runner, leading to roles as a host and voice artist, eventually founding Mystery Box. This unique perspective has allowed him to build a dynamic team that excels in various aspects of digital production.

Overcoming Self-Doubt and Family Influences

Alex attributes much of his resilience to the supportive influence of his family. A pivotal moment came from a family member's advice to pursue passion over profit, even if it meant financial uncertainty.

Alex Suchet [05:32]: “Just pursue what makes you happy because that's ultimately what's sustainable.”

This guidance helped Alex navigate the challenges of creative entrepreneurship, fostering a mindset that prioritizes passion and authenticity over traditional measures of success.

The Anatomy of Opportunity: Red Car/Blue Car Theory

A central theme of the discussion is Alex’s Red Car/Blue Car Theory, an analogy that illustrates how focused ambition can blind individuals to unexpected opportunities.

Alex Suchet [10:26]: “If you set out with this blind ambition for solely this North Star that you've decided you're going to follow, you actually switch off your awareness to other opportunities that might come your way.”

Radim further explains this concept by likening it to an experiment where individuals fail to notice a gorilla when they are focused on counting red objects—a demonstration of selective attention.

Radim Malinj [11:20]: “That's the red car, blue car theory.”

This theory underscores the importance of maintaining openness and flexibility in one’s career path to recognize and seize unforeseen opportunities.

Building Authentic Relationships in Business

Alex emphasizes the significance of treating business relationships as authentic friendships rather than transactional interactions. This approach fosters trust and mutual respect, leading to more meaningful and sustainable partnerships.

Alex Suchet [45:02]: “Clients are like friends. You don't go out into social media looking for friends. You make friends by being kind and by being open to new relationships.”

He advocates for organic growth through genuine interactions, contrasting it with the often superficial connections fostered by aggressive marketing and social media strategies.

Team Dynamics and Managing Egos

Managing a diverse team requires emotional intelligence and the ability to mitigate ego conflicts. Alex shares insights on how he balances respect for individual expertise with the collective goals of Mystery Box.

Alex Suchet [35:20]: “The most talented and skilled experts in whatever their field have the least ego, actually.”

He highlights the importance of creating an environment where team members feel valued and empowered to contribute without the constraints of ego-driven conflicts.

Adaptability vs. Signature Style: Evolving with the Industry

Adaptability is portrayed as a cornerstone of Mystery Box’s success. Alex discusses the risks and rewards of evolving beyond a signature style to meet the changing demands of the digital landscape.

Alex Suchet [30:18]: “What defines longevity in any industry is not rigidity but the ability to adapt and embrace new challenges.”

This flexibility has enabled Mystery Box to diversify its offerings, transitioning from a design agency to encompassing development and technological solutions, thereby ensuring sustained growth and relevance.

Client Acquisition Through Authenticity

Eschewing traditional social media marketing, Alex advocates for client acquisition through authenticity and word-of-mouth referrals. By nurturing genuine relationships, Mystery Box attracts clients who value quality and integrity.

Alex Suchet [45:02]: “The best relationships were acquired organically and without having to pay to run ads to convince them.”

This strategy not only aligns with his values but also builds a loyal client base that appreciates the agency’s commitment to excellence and personalized service.

Balancing Money, Freedom, and Happiness

The conversation explores the delicate balance between financial success, personal freedom, and genuine happiness. Alex reflects on how financial validation does not equate to happiness, emphasizing that true fulfillment comes from the freedom to pursue creative passions.

Alex Suchet [18:08]: “Money tends to unlock freedom. Once you have freedom, it makes you happy.”

Radim echoes this sentiment, discussing how discipline complements freedom to prevent the chaos that can arise from unstructured creativity.

Embracing Remote Work and Sustainable Business Practices

Long before the COVID-19 pandemic, Mystery Box embraced remote work, proving that an agency can operate efficiently and profitably without a physical office. This foresight not only enhanced productivity but also contributed to a healthier work-life balance for the team.

Alex Suchet [49:29]: “Professionally, I think I've sold a different way of doing business and a different way of working.”

This approach has positioned Mystery Box as a leader in flexible and sustainable business practices, catering to a diverse clientele while maintaining high standards of quality.

Conclusions and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Radim commends Alex for his non-linear journey and the inspiring success of Mystery Box. Alex reiterates the importance of adaptability, authenticity, and fostering genuine relationships in achieving long-term success and personal fulfillment.

Radim Malinj [50:14]: “You've always been an inspiration to me, even though we've got an age difference. You're younger. And I feel in some ways you're ahead of me in certain ways because there's a level of you being divorced from that egoistical signature style.”

The episode concludes on a high note, celebrating the harmonious blend of creativity, adaptability, and authentic relationship-building that defines Alex Suchet’s approach to creative entrepreneurship.

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Notable Quotes:

• Alex Suchet [04:08]: “I always say that I'm the conductor of an orchestra, but I don't play the strings or the woodwind.”

• Alex Suchet [05:32]: “Just pursue what makes you happy because that's ultimately what's sustainable.”

• Alex Suchet [10:26]: “If you set out with this blind ambition for solely this North Star that you've decided you're going to follow, you actually switch off your awareness to other opportunities that might come your way.”

• Alex Suchet [18:08]: “Money tends to unlock freedom. Once you have freedom, it makes you happy.”

• Alex Suchet [45:02]: “Clients are like friends. You don't go out into social media looking for friends. You make friends by being kind and by being open to new relationships.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers profound insights into the essence of creative entrepreneurship. Alex Suchet’s experiences underscore the significance of adaptability, the power of authentic relationships, and the pursuit of passion-driven success. Mindful Creative continues to provide invaluable lessons for creatives aiming to navigate the complexities of the modern creative landscape.

Transcript

[Radim Malinj]

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[Alex Suchet]

I found it really inspiring and it gives you this lovely sense of like, it refuels you into believing. Whereas if you come from a background where people before you didn't achieve things, there's always this, I think to a greater degree, sense of doubt and self doubt which I think can be really crippling. And I really believe that what you tell yourself is what you become. I was really fortunate that I had a little voice in me telling me that actually it is possible and all those dreams and aspirations you have can come true because I was fortunate enough to see the reality like the fruits of that for other people close to me. So I found that really inspiring.

[Radim Malinj]

Foreign welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Radi Malinj and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me. In this season, inspired by my book of the same title, I am talking to some of the most celebrated figures in the creative industry. In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles, how they learned to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career. So thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready? My guest today is an Executive producer, Creative Technologies and founder of the digital production agency Mystery Box. He and his team partner with the most demanding brands and sectors to establish and enhance their digital presence to increase brand awareness, drive sales and improve user feature engagement. Aside from his main agency, he is also a recognized face of Samsung, the voice behind Mercedes Benz, and in demand presenter for many other global brands. In our conversation, we highlight the value of authentic relationships with clients and team members, comparing business relationships to friendships and how it's possible to develop a business organically rather than through aggressive marketing or social media presence. It's my pleasure to introduce Alex Suchet. Hey Alex, how you doing?

[Alex Suchet]

I'm good, Radim, thanks for having me.

[Radim Malinj]

I'm so excited to have you on the show because you and I have been on record, friends for more than a decade, maybe nearly a couple. And yeah, your journey has been so inspirational that I wanted to share with the wider audience. But. But for those who might not know you, which might be most of the listeners of this show, how would you introduce yourself and what you do?

[Alex Suchet]

I think you're probably right. I think most people wouldn't. So. My name is Alex Suchet and I'm the founder and CEO of a digital production company called Mystery Box.

[Radim Malinj]

When is creativity come into your life? Because your background, if we can touch on that, is bit of unconventional to most mortals that we know. Yeah, your story is fascinating and I think if we can touch lightly on how did you come to where you are today and what influences you had in your early alive, that'd be great.

[Alex Suchet]

It's a funny question because I guess like creativity is this all encompassing term and to some degree or another we all are. And I guess for me I come from a background of very mixed people who, some of which achieve really great things, whether it was in medicine or in performing arts or in ad agencies too. I was always inspired by what had gone before me. But I guess I started life as a TV production runner making tea and driving celebrities to their houses and collecting the shop and all the rest of it and eventually I hosted some live shopping channels for a while and I still work as a voice artist as like a passion job. The creativity has always been there. And I think what makes me and my role as the founder of Mystery Box different is that I always say that I'm the conductor of an orchestra, but I don't play the strings or the woodwind. And whereas most founders are designers themselves or web developers themselves and so they build a team around what they know and their skill set and grow from there, whereas mine was very much that of a producer and who had more of a bird's eye view on the whole process. I worked at amazing award winning production company Unit 9 for some time. That's really where I cut my teeth and learned the trade and got a sense of what digital production is and how it can be done really well to produce quality work. But I saw opportunity to do that differently.

[Radim Malinj]

One of your family members once told you a quote about if you want to do it well, you might not be eating. And he was referring to acting. What was the quote?

[Alex Suchet]

Yeah, I forget. I told you that? Yeah. He said, listen, just do what you love, don't follow money, and if acting's what you love, that's great, go and do that. But just be prepared that you might not afford to buy a house or keep the lights on, but that doesn't matter because you love what you're doing. So just pursue what makes you happy because that's ultimately what's sustainable. Whereas chasing money and being miserable.

[Radim Malinj]

What a quote. Did you ever consider acting?

[Alex Suchet]

Yes, it was on my radar. But ultimately, I think I realized that, especially as a kid when you're so impressionable and you look at other people's success and think, well, I'd like a place of that and I can probably make a living doing it. But that was like the first wake up call to realizing that it wouldn't fulfill me and sustain my happiness forever. So therefore it's probably not the right thing to do. And I'm really grateful to him telling me that because maybe I would have pursued it and been miserable and given up and changed career in my 30s.

[Radim Malinj]

Was there pressure to do that? Because obviously having such a dominant figure in your family that has managed to actually do what he loves and actually still eat from it, was there pressure to be somewhere in the media or actor or whatever that could be?

[Alex Suchet]

I think that's the way inspiration goes, right? It can either crush you or fuel you. And fortunately for me, and I pay debt to everybody else for this, I found it really inspiring and it gives you this lovely sense of like, it really fuels you into believing. Whereas if you come from a background where people before you didn't achieve things, there's always this, I think, to a greater degree, sense of doubt and self doubt, which I think can be really crippling. And I really believe that what you tell yourself is what you become. I was really fortunate that I had a little voice in me telling me that actually it is possible and all those dreams and aspirations you have can come true. Because I was fortunate enough to see the reality, like the fruits of that for other people close to me. So I found that really inspiring. But there's this horrible sense of pressure, right, where if you fail, it's worse because people might think that you would have had it easier than others and for you to fail, you must have been particularly bad at what you do. Whereas if you succeed, they think, of course he was going to succeed. So that's. I try and ignore those thoughts.

[Radim Malinj]

Yeah. I think when you consider the landscape now, when there's so many Nepo babies in various Roles. Some of them are talented, some of them, they deserve to be where they are, and some may be a little bit less so.

[Alex Suchet]

I really feel for those kids. I think Brooklyn Beckham decided tomorrow to go and be a footballer. He's damned if he does well and if he's damned if he fails. And I really feel sorry for them, actually. I think it's much harder than being Ian Wright, who didn't come from anybody else who had done that before him.

[Radim Malinj]

When you think about it, the people criticizing those people are always people who are not doing that job. They're standing on the sidelines, basically. They're like the Sunday morning football down, shouting from the sidelines, I can do this better. And also mostly always those comments come from a deep place of unhappiness because you say, oh, the system's against me, or this is not fair. Like this, this person who's following footsteps of someone who's already achieved that sort of grind and that status is passing it on. And when you think about it, there's two sides to every story, two sides to every coin. I'm like those nipple babies. And it'll be luckier because as you said, being following someone who's. Has achieved status and actually maybe inspiring, rather than just passing on an open door.

[Alex Suchet]

I think you're right. You're a really good example of how you arrived at your own success via an unconventional method. And I think if you look at the people who really achieve anything in this world and whatever it is that they're doing, they tend to do it their own way. And I think those that set out from the start to follow a formula, they actually don't quite get to where they're going because they're so focused on what they think their destination is that they ignore opportunity. And I know you and I have spoken about that before. I feel really strongly about embarking upon your journey. Yes, with a sense of direction, but equally with the openness to letting the wind take you where it takes you. That's where you. That's. I think we've spoken about. I think I called it like opportunity theory, right, the red car idea.

[Radim Malinj]

Yeah. Because when you think about it, like, if you don't have those breadcrumbs to follow, you're the one leaving the breadcrumbs for those behind you. Like, obviously, we always leave a trail of inspiration, body of work, release some sort of proof of what we've done that inspires others. And if you're not sort of first person in your family or in your own story doing this, you can't complain that you are just not as lucky as somebody else because as you just said, that following someone's success might be actually a bit of a hindrance because you expected to be a some version or some impression or some quality of someone who was here before you.

[Alex Suchet]

That's true. Some people go about their work quite quietly and so not many people know what they do or how they did it. And so it probably inspires fewer people. I'm also conscious that we talked about red car theory and listeners might not know what that is. I don't know, maybe it's this really well known thing and I'm just explaining something that everybody knows.

[Radim Malinj]

All right, let's get into that quote because I think that quote is what I call the anatomy of opportunity. Because what you described on our pre call a long time ago is something I didn't actually hear before. So how would you describe the anatomy of opportunity?

[Alex Suchet]

Keep it short, but it's this amazing kind of analogy for how luck works. So if I ask you to look around the room that you're in now and take note of everything around you that's red. So just look around now and everything that you see that's red. And then close your eyes and now I want you to tell me what you saw that was blue, you're probably completely blind, right, to what those were. And I think this is how luck, in quote unquote and opportunity works. That if you set out with this blind ambition for solely this North Star that you've decided you're going to follow, you actually switch off your awareness to other opportunity that might come your way. And I think that would be the biggest P. If I could give a nugget of advice to anybody, it's have some direction, but also be open to Lady Luck. Because that little example there is exactly what I think humans call luck. But it isn't. It's spotting opportunity.

[Radim Malinj]

What you're describing quite eloquently and beautifully. I think they call it a selective attention because I think there was an experiment of a theater play and at one stage, which today they asked the people, like, count this number of people in actors or whatever, and they just put a person in a gorilla suit just to walk through the set. And they asked the people like, so how many actors did you count? And I might be having that sort of subject wrong. But the gorillas, they totally missed the gorilla because they were focusing on the thing in front of them or they were told to look out for. Whereas in your story and Your sort far what I've been watching your story, watching your journey. You've been looking out for the gorillas, you've been counting sidelines, but you've been looking out for the gorillas, you've been looking out for the blue stuff in the room. And I think that's the exciting part.

[Alex Suchet]

Thank you. But it's honestly not an intentional decision necessarily. I just think I've never been the best at conforming. And so it just happens, I think and it's really not served me well in institutions which have a rigid structure where there's an expectation of you like school or whatever. So I would never sit here and say that's the best way to be. But it was just the way I was built. And fortunately, I think this is what we all need to do for ourselves, right, Is to identify what it is about us, what skills do we have and what are the things that we can use about ourselves to make a successful selves and be happy. I think my mum always said to me, actually quite young, she said you only have to be an expert in something. It can be as niche, you can be the best origami artist in the world, it doesn't matter. You don't have to be a doctor or architect, lawyer, just find what it is that you love doing because it won't be a drag to wake up in the morning and do it and you'll become an expert at it one day. And experts can command a lot of money. And I think I know so many people like yourself, some of their parents who don't quite get it just think they do arts and crafts for a living and they thank God my friend Mary's son is an anesthetist and my son does arts and crafts. Meanwhile, as we're learning now, the tech bros of San Francisco and the agency owners and these guys are making a lot of money and like biggest news flash, they're really happy and fulfilled and there's lots of salaried slaves with gray faces riding the tube today who are going to their banking job and they're really unhappy. So I think the biggest lesson, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably a creative or interested in the field. I think that's we should all take some solace from that. And that's really reassuring to know that actually you can both be happy and be financially secure.

[Radim Malinj]

What you mentioned about your mum is an interesting point for this podcast because I have spoken to lots of people on the show who would have wanted the advice from your Mum from their parents and they didn't get it. So they were the struggling artists, the young artists, the budding artists with the big vision. And their parents were like, maybe law, maybe architecture, maybe something sensible. There's a reason, because those parents don't want you to fail. Whereas where you ended up on the other side of creativity being very much inspired to be as creative as you want, be the maestro origami maker. It's fascinating that when you have all the freedom, you actually gravitate towards exactly what you want. Because in your way, I feel like even though your journey and your story is non linear, you can't even go after something which was your total expression. Whereas some people feel like they were talk out of the straight line via detour. Of course we all learned stuff once we do it. But I love that, I love that your mom was like, do it.

[Alex Suchet]

It's honestly one of the biggest gifts I was given that I was given the freedom to play in the sandbox of life and to just noodle around and nothing was wrong. I was exposed to lots of different things, which is a real gift and I'm very grateful for that. And I also had two very, very different parents. They're both creative in their own right. My dad, as I mentioned earlier, he was a managing director of tachi in the hedonistic 70s 80s. So I got my fair dose of that and my mum was this kind, supportive, nonjudgmental. And again, I think this really feeds into business that if you're a boss or a leader who can nurture and cultivate the talents that you and maybe your team have no idea they have, then you're just watering them right as plant, they will grow and there'll be a degree of respect and gratitude to you. And that's what growing a team is. It's not ramming money down their throat and making them work longer and harder. Because again, I don't call anybody out. But I've seen a lot of that and I think we both have, we've both been in agencies and I just think that's the key really is kindness and it's freedom. I can't remember who told me this quote, I've got a feeling. So one of the most amazing creative directors I ever worked for was Piero Frescobaldi and he's the managing partner of the Unit 9 group. And he always said to me, the freedom is retention. When you change someone to a lamppost, they will chew themselves until they chew themselves free. Whereas if you give somebody that freedom to roam and if they want to go onto the top floor and smoke some exotic tobacco, let them do it. They will be happier, they'll come back. And you never know what kind of creatives you're going to unlock and what happiness and what value you might extract from them. And when you give them that freedom, you retain them. And I think the same can be said of friendships, of marriages and of business relationships that ultimately it's not that contract between a husband and wife. It's not that relationship contract that keeps you together. It's happiness and it's freedom. And the same goes for business. Now, that was really good advice that was given at the beginning of my career.

[Radim Malinj]

Were you the one chained to the lamppost or the one smoking exotic tobacco on the top floor?

[Alex Suchet]

Man, I'm sorry to say this, but I was the one given the freedom and it still wasn't enough and I still fled and I wanted to do it on my own. But that's nobody else's fault. We'll be back after a quick break.

[Radim Malinj]

If you're enjoying this podcast and would like more support and information on your creative journey, you can pick up one of my books to help you do just that. My titles cover branding, graphic design, illustration all the way to career, business advice with ideas how to navigate the highs and lows of the creative process. You can pick up signed paper bags at no extra cost from my [e-mail] and we are shipping worldwide use code podcast for extra.10% off your order and you can find the links in the show notes. Any day should be a new book day. I'm glad I asked that because you mentioned a few interesting points and there are three of them. Money, happy and freedom. And the freedom you're describing. I think for some creators, like discipline is ultimately a bit corrosive. Like it's freedom doesn't always provide the freedom that some people dream about because in a way you feel like you don't want to conform. Like you want to place your own path in a way. But the freedom, ultimately, I've always tried to sort of liken freedom to a riot. You can start a riot and it feels freaking awesome. It's like you can do whatever you want, however you want it, but then you realize, where are we going with this ride? Like we actually need some sort of idea like where this goes because in the way of non discipline, like the freedom to do anything can actually make you ultimately unhappy.

[Alex Suchet]

I think it's such an ambiguous. I don't even know if you and I can really get to the bottom of this because what makes people happy is so unique. But I think I can speak broadly for most of us when I say that I think the order you said it might be wrong, but it's money first. Because I'm afraid in this like capitalist world we live in, money tends to unlock freedom. And once you have freedom, it's that makes you happy. And I think the misconception is that it's the money that's going to do that. Whereas actually if you're chained to your desk in the city earning big money, they're not happy. It's freedom that gives you happiness. Or certainly for me and a lot of creatives, I think it's like a comedian with a gun to his head being told make me laugh. They can't do that on cue. And creatives need freedom to be creative. And once they are given the space to be, they're happy.

[Radim Malinj]

Yeah, I think it was one of my guests, Marco fan, who says that the best work happens when people waste time, when they just literally just do whatever they do whatever they want to do. And I just like wasting time actually produces creativity.

[Alex Suchet]

There's a John Lennon quote, it's something like time you enjoyed wasting wasn't wasted. But it's so true. There's a top, top, top photographer who's part of Mystery Boxnik. Very close friend of mine called Robert Hernig, he works out of Germany, he shorts all of the German Bundesliga and Mercedes Benz. And he said I cannot work until I've spent at least two hours doing nothing and wasting time and reading rubbish on the Internet. Only then can I get into a mindset to actually do anything. And it was so liberating for me to hear that because I'm the, the CEO of a relatively big agency now. I feel like I should get to my desk at 8:30 in the morning and I should be able to get flicker switch and do some work. And I am crippled with other people might call time wasting, but for me it's like an integral part of my process. I have to bounce the ball and read the stupid article and research that thing I don't need and mess around and get distracted by suddenly needing to repair the lawnmower, whatever, until I can actually do some work.

[Radim Malinj]

Yeah, I can totally understand and relate to needing to just to spend time doing nothing for a little bit because you closing one door and waiting for the other to open. I think there's definitely a way of justifying, not even justifying feeling like you don't have to justify the time when you want to switch from one side to another. Because I believe there is a way to be creative on demand, but that is years down the line if you don't know what you're doing. It's almost. Imagine driving a car for the first few times. I'm not going to be asking you to do handbrake turns with drifting round a roundabout somewhere, wherever you want to imagine that to happen. You're going to do it slowly, but after 20 years of driving, do this, do that, do this. You ready for this? Because you've actually learned all the ins and outs that you can actually exercise the basics. Because I think we stop being fussy and entertaining every single option and we go to A, from A to B as directly as we can. So I think there's way to do it, but it obviously comes with time. I think that's. If you talk about famous quotes. Is that Paul Ashe who bought it from Crikey Picasso? No, I don't know. Paul Ashe said I can do it in 30 seconds because I spent 30 years doing this and I think that there is a way to do this. But let me me talk about a little bit of your background because you've gone from production runner to be a voiceover artist and now you're owner of an agency. So how does one get a job as a production runner? Did you see it as a way into where you wanted to be?

[Alex Suchet]

I was interested in TV production and I thought it was really fascinating and I was really fortunate to have a stepmother who had held a really senior position at the BBC and, yeah, she helped introduce me to somebody to get me that runner's job. So I worked on Cash in the attic for C1 for I don't know how many seasons, and it was great. And actually what's so cool about that was its creative production that was for television broadcast. And what we do now is creative production, which tends to be for the web, however that's consumed, whether it's video or web applications or logos or whatever. And so it really gave me that first, like foot in the door of understanding all the cogs and the mechanics of that. But that's how I was given my first job.

[Radim Malinj]

How did you start using your voice? Because you become a voiceover artist. I know you were the presenter on some of the channels and then you become a voiceover artist. Did you ever feel self conscious about your image or your voice or how did you join those dots to say, I want to be not behind the camera making tea and picking up no shop. But actually, you know what? I'm going to stand in front of it for sure.

[Alex Suchet]

I think like you said at the top, you know, I've known each other for a really long time, so I'm really comfy telling you that. I think being uncomfortable and that sensation of self consciousness is a running theme. I'm hoping through everybody's life and it's not just me, but to one degree or another. And I always felt like being in front of a camera was like my secret skill that I knew I could do to a degree, that the nerves didn't cripple me, I think was Muhammad Ali. He was asked if he gets nervous and he said, of course I get nervous, but my body's way of preparing me to do my best. And some people the nerves. I think Rocky says it brilliantly in Rookie 3 or something. He says, your best friend is Frankie Fear. If you don't control him, he's going to burn you up. But if you control him, it's going to make you hot. And I always thought about that. I knew that I could be in scenarios that were scary for other people, but I could control it. Doesn't mean that you don't feel the sensation of nervousness and insecurity and self doubt. And that's hard. Especially when you are literally 22 years old and you're on live TV with six cameras and you don't actually know what you're doing. That's really hard. But like anything, the more exposure you get to something, the kind of more comfortable you get. And that grows confidence. And I think with confidence comes like an authentic sense of self. So that really helps. And I think the same goes for my role at Mystery Box. I think there are many founders of comms agencies or digital agencies or dev agencies or whatever they are who weren't on the tools themselves at some point. They were all comms experts or web developers or designers. And so for me, the big insecurity certainly for the first five years of Mystery Box was this sensation that maybe I didn't belong or that like imposter syndrome. But that kind of success helps allay those feelings of self doubt, which is good. And I think I also came to grow a sense of understanding of my role in the process. That actually I'm a really good producer and I hate the phrase entrepreneur because it sounds so money grabbing, but I can put a deal together and make sure everything's profitable, but the client's paying the right money and that the team are getting paid well. And I Can, thank God I now have a really good team who helped bring that production process from concept to delivery. But I can do that and that's okay. And that justifies my role in the process and that I'm not some kind of charlatan. But certainly when you and I first met, I just thought, God, these guys are all these topics, well known designers and I haven't really deserved to be mixing with them, let alone founding an agency and working with them. So I found that really hard. But I don't know, what do you think? Doesn't that self doubt run through us all?

[Radim Malinj]

I think this feels like we're doing an episode of what quote do you remember? Because there was a quote that you told me ages ago which was a quote about money. And you talk about someone famous. I think that person was nondescript and this person was very rich. And they asked them, so what does it feel like not to worry about money? And they said, I just fill in that void with worry about something different like that. We just need that sense of survival, that sort of survival instinct and those kind of problem solving in our lives. So if you tick off one box, it doesn't mean that all the other boxes disappear. Because you talked about the feeling of not belonging, being 22 in front of cameras and knowing what's to do. How long did it take you to self accept your space? How long did it say, you know what, this is who I am. I'm not Fiona Bruce. Because self acceptance take time. I know the year potentially where I self accepted myself, myself when I realized this is the life I'm living. I'm not living a version of someone else's life. This is my life. And you accept elements. So how did that feel for you?

[Alex Suchet]

I feel like the real answer is so. But I think for me, being financially successful was in many ways more validating than I anticipated it to be. Because I think we all start off thinking how I feel about myself is how I feel about myself. But if I had money, I'll be happy. And for me it was not the case. It was, gosh, making money gave me a sense of self validation and it contributed to my happiness. Absolutely zero. Which was a surprise. It's also validating because when you set out to build a business, the money is the measure by which you can arrive at the conclusion of whether or not you're doing well or not, whether this works or not. Because I think building a business, it's a bit like raising a child and sending it out into the world. And when Your business does well, you think, okay, that validates my initial decision that doing this was a good idea and that this works. And without sounding soppy, seeing the people you hired at the very beginning, which I still have 12 years later, seeing them put deposits on houses and have families of their own, and that was really validating. Oh, do you know what? I've made a very small but very positive, like, impact on people beyond me, and that was really validating.

[Radim Malinj]

That sounds very great because I think what you're describing is the happiness of service. You've actually helped someone. You actually, you've given someone chance outside of your own circle or your own sort of your own life. You actually influence other people's life. And this is where happiness is almost often misunderstood because as you said, in the order, money, freedom, happy, there's a lot of very rich people being very unhappy and because they don't really know what to do with themselves or worry about stuff. And, yeah, being able to provide for others and build a team around you, that's what counts. So I want to put a bit more color on. The story that you started talking about is how you and I met. Because at first, first we were business partners because you were my agent. You were representing me as an illustrator and a designer because that was the first incarnation of your business. How did the idea come about to throw yourself in the unknown? Where did it come from?

[Alex Suchet]

I wish you didn't ask me this, but it came to me watching, like, the X Factor or something in 2010, when it dawned on me that Simon Cowell was getting a somebody on stage and then getting nobodies on stage with them. And then under his ownership, the nobodies became somebody's. And that became quite a natural, like, way to evolve and grow. And I thought, okay, I'm not a designer, I'm not a developer, and I've got no clients. How do you start an agency? So, yeah, I decided to work with people like yourself and to say, listen, I'll be your agent and I'll manage your financial affairs and negotiate the deals and the contracts and either go between. Between you and the client. And once you've got six or eight or ten great designers like you, every now and again, the clients will come in with a job that's actually not appropriate for any of you. And then I'd go off and find another designer who is appropriate for and then learn the whole. They joined too. And then suddenly you've got so much, such an influx of client requests that there was that open that really Natural opportunity to be an agency in Mystery Box's own right. And then we were just a design agency and there's something made sense. Maybe we can go into development too. And then suddenly dev and tech is 80 and probably 90% of Mystery Box's business today. So I think really calls back to what we were talking about earlier, where I really went, where the wind blew. If I had, I started off saying, we are going to be a design agency and only represent artists, we would have gone bankrupt around, I don't know, whenever the world changed. And I think that if I could hammer that point into anybody's brain, it would just be flexible and creative and just go where the wind takes you. Opportunity WHISPERS it doesn't shout. Do you know what I mean?

[Radim Malinj]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it goes back to that red car, blue car. Because you and I, although we've worked together and we did quite a few projects together, I was at that stage where I was very much about like, signature style. This is me, this is my expression, this is what I want to do. I don't want to do things that I might potentially regret because they are not my style or they don't make me happy. There is a lot of clinging on, has been, will be. There'll always be people doing the thing because it's their signature style. And some people can build very lucrative careers on their signature styles, but they don't always evolve as necessary with the world. Which is exactly what you did. Because I remember I was having a conversation, you're like, I'm happy to do this and that, that's scavenging. But you were just like, I'm happy to do this, I'm happy to do that. Because that was your incubation period. You were actually learning about so many, like, varied things. Right.

[Alex Suchet]

If there's a fiver there to be made and everybody's happy, let's make the fiverr and grow from that. And I think what you've just said is so important and we'll be careful here, but there are other very well known designers who did the opposite, have been North Star and did exactly what you just described, where they were like, that's my style, that's what I do. I say no to anything that isn't. And they've all gone and got. Yeah, they've gone and had to get a job. And so I think that's what defines you and maybe me and other people who have longevity in whatever industry they work in is that they don't have that rigidity and that I think takes a degree of. It's brave, isn't it, to step into what you don't know. Certainly, like in your case, for you to say, okay, I'm going to go and do something that hasn't been my jam ever.

[Radim Malinj]

I think with the people who don't evolve or run out of the Runway with their sort of style, that's the choice. That's how some people just work. Because obviously people like us or people like you and I, we are different, potentially differently hardwired. It's easy to think that what you've built, you've built for life, only to realize that everything changes as much, much quicker than you would ever imagine. I'm sure you find in your business that the systems and the processes you've had, let's say five years ago, are no longer valid. Like things you did two years ago, Especially in the world of digital, lots changes really quickly with protocols and php, whatever scripting language. A lot changes. And I think when I look back at the career that I had, I'm glad that I spent time on my signature development. And I'm also now glad I don't care about my signature development, because the signature is in one way or another there, because I'm still a person directing the work, doing the work. But wait a minute, there's wider opportunities. It's just a cognitive and it's a mindset shift. Like, you know what, there's other things I'm going to pursue. And actually, the fiverr that you described, okay, let's make a fiver this way, let's make a fiverr that way. Because in an artist way, we're like, I don't think I like the color of the fiverr. It's not my favorite fiverr. Therefore, I think I'll pass and wait for tenner to come my way. And that would be my color. You're thinking, you know what, that's their choice. Because how long have you got time to wait for the color of the tenner that you want instead of the fiverr that's in front of you?

[Alex Suchet]

I think you look at, like, musicians. You can't pump out nine albums of the same stuff. They grow and evolve, and that comes with a degree of risk. And my fan base can have this completely new sound I'm trying out. And I think the same for Mystery Box. For a long time, the clients were Apples and Harry Potters and Warner Brothers and James Bonds and all these cool. And now we do a lot of work for a major government, and I see that as not a sort of like a reshaping of our brand and our output, but. But a challenge and an opportunity for growth. And that's surely what defines creativity. If creativity is for sale, then surely creativity must be for sale, and it shouldn't be dictated by what we deem to be our flavor of what we serve in our restaurant. It's about challenge. And where you're challenged, you grow. And where you step into new territory, unexpected greatness and indeed failures emerge. And I think that is the key to success and to happiness and growth and longevity.

[Radim Malinj]

Your role of a conductor, did you ever feel that was a natural way to do it, or did you have to teach yourself, like, how to actually conduct a little orchestra?

[Alex Suchet]

I partly had no choice because I was what I was. And it came naturally because I knew I could connect with people. I knew I could lead a team. I knew I could sell to the clients externally. And it was just that kind of of feeling that the shoe fit really well. But again, that comes with the challenge of how do you get gain the trust of your internal team who are black belts in their various skills, whether it's SEO, ppc, dev design, and how do you acquire enough knowledge in order to effectively sell and upskill your client? And so that takes time. And I think for sure there was a period of time that I didn't do that, that very well or well enough. And anything you learn, and I think a good producer has a huge breadth of knowledge that I could talk to you about anything from service security to digital marketing to application development, but I can only talk to you in a degree of depth about it. And as soon as I find I'm in seas that are too deep for me to swim, I wheel in the guy in my team who's a black belt in it. And so that works.

[Radim Malinj]

Did you ever come across lots of ego battles, especially? And I say ego because to me, ego, to some people, evil could be a bravado, whereas I feel like ego is like a strong sense of identity that we try to protect because there's a reason for us to be wheeled in as the black belt specialist. But as someone who said I needed to be better at managing how I do this, how much empathy and people skills and emotional intelligence did you need to add to your arsenal to make it all work? Because as we all know, you can be battling with a designer, with a stubborn designer until there's no blood left in anyone's face. You're like, dude, it could be just tweaking it by one degree done I.

[Alex Suchet]

Would say that, you know what I lack in iq, I think my black belt's been eq, so I've always felt well equipped to manage that kind of person. But interestingly, I find like, the most talented and skilled experts in whatever their field have the least ego, actually. And it's often the ones that make the most noise that actually have the least to say. I think I'm pretty sure that's true. And so that's really telling. When I think of the best people I know at whatever their skill is, they're actually very shy. They're not comfortable talking to the client directly, and they'd much rather be in their jammies with their cat on their lap with their headphones on, writing unbelievable code. And they don't want to argue and debate and shout about how great they are. And so that's my job. I just need to get the nuggets information from them and translate it and present it through.

[Radim Malinj]

I think what you described is called superiority complex. People who feel like they need to justify their space in the room or space in the equation often shout loudest because it's a form of a defense, it's an offense. It's like a verbal attack, like verbal sort of defense by projecting some sort of vision of the Persona they're not, but they're trying to create just before we actually find out who they really are. So, yeah, least egoistic person just usually doesn't have anything to prove because they've already achieve that black belt in their chosen field that you can rely on them. So let's say your uncle, who's accomplished actor, I don't think he needs to prove anyone that he can have.

[Alex Suchet]

I think that's true. But equally, I think there are also, and this is mainly young people who know they've got it and they've no, they've got what it takes and they're just bursting to prove it. And so that can leak out in a way that they might not intend. So it's important to forgive that.

[Radim Malinj]

And.

[Alex Suchet]

And I think I was probably one of those. When I really reflect, and so I give a special pass to those. But come on, if you're a guy who's been doing this, a guy or girl who's been doing this for 20 years, you're great at what you do. I think you can afford to just take a modesty pill and settle down.

[Radim Malinj]

I think it comes with time. It's also insecurity, especially at the beginning of our stage, at early stages of our careers, the insecurity is rife, and you're trying to make noise just to justify your space. Whereas if you're still making noise after 20 years and you're not sure about your space, then there might be something wrong. Like, what? Are you worried that people might find out? Because I remember when I had my first crappy job as a designer. I felt like a superhero, and I was totally unaware of what I didn't know. I was just like, hey, I'm here to solve the world. Then you realize, actually you, not you think it is, obviously. And what you don't know is, what would you lack in experience? You make up an excitement and enthusiasm. That's great. But, God, I was making some stupid suggestions and decisions because you feel all of a sudden you've been empowered with something that can influence the world outside. Whereas if not, you need to learn how to be as one. Because kid comes from college and goes to army and goes, all right, fellas, take it to battle. Because that's what we sometimes think with. Because we are seduced by our ego, by our identity, and by the opportunity that, oh, let's do this. I lead you. No, no, it's happy. It's okay for you to actually sit down and listen and only do what you need to do, because that's how you learn more. Rather than come up with 17 different ideas and come up with things that are great, that you show enthusiasm. But I think it's been really misunderstood, especially at the early design stages, where people go, you ask for one thing. I've given you seven. Okay? Shows you thinking, but it also shows you that you're not thinking because you only need to do one thing. You do it well. That's what we ask you to do. And if you have any suggestions, it'll be great to have. Because I could never really understand working with older clients when I was younger. And they're like, this is what we want. And I'm like, of course, when you were younger and snooty, you're like, yeah, that's a piece of shit. Why'd you want that? That could be so much better. And then realize, why do you want this? Why do you want this? Why do you want this? And then you get 20 years older, you're like, I totally understand why they wanted just one thing thing. Because they've already validated 19 others as invalid. And it just makes you think, oh, there's time to shut up and actually listen. Because it's so much easier to get the job done by just doing what's been Asked for you because unless you lead in the orchestra, even as an orchestra, it's going to be a jamming in some extra style. Oh, let's have a guy playing a keg from Slipknot in the middle of BBC Promise. Because that's a good idea. You're not going to suggest that you go with the flow, but you try to do best out of what you've been given. And that goes back to freedom and the limitations that if you have freedom and limitations, that's the best place to be. Because again, we play football on the pitches. We've defined shapes with those freestyle. Let's add a couple of curves and maybe a water slide, because that's a good idea. Like it's a pitch. This is the rule. Make the best of it.

[Alex Suchet]

Totally. Like we said, it all comes with time. And ultimately, I remember I was talking to somebody about this recently and I just said, all I really do is sell noises and pixels. We're not changing the world here. Just enjoy it, behave yourself, and the rest will work itself out. World.

[Radim Malinj]

So with the people that you work with and the stuff that you do, obviously we work together on the Harry Potters and the Bonds and stuff, and it can sometimes feel like a surreal marker in the sand. When you arrive there, you're like, okay, we've done this work for Warner Brothers. We've done this and that. But primarily it's just about understanding how people work and how the work works. Because it's just like that one skill set and you can apply to different clients with different ways.

[Alex Suchet]

Definitely. I think think it's key in a team to have a variety of personalities and skill sets. I think a team full of Alex Fouch and a team full of Radim Mallet just wouldn't get off the starting line. And I think, who is it? Was it the sas? I can't remember what I was watching, but they said something like, these top Marines would so much rather have a man or woman next to them who is loyal and kind and likable, but actually not very talented than somebody who's really talented and they don't feel has their back or that they don't have a close rapport with. So I think that speaks to a. The importance of happiness in a team and of respecting each other's boundaries and expertise, but also about our differences. There are so many things this podcast isn't long enough for me to rattle through them. There are so many things I'm bad at, and it's so important to recognize them and hire people to fill those gaps. And equally there are things I'm good at and it's important not to hire people who also think they're good at that to avoid butting heads with them. And so I think that's the key to a good team, is just that all your bases are covered and that you respect each other's areas of expertise and where we acknowledge that they get to make the call on that because they're probably right. Even though I feel strongly about something.

[Radim Malinj]

When you say with the work that you're doing, which is not necessarily driven by style or any sort of visual signature, is it difficult to have a North Star? Is it difficult to know where you head? And because this would be listened to by a lot of people who have done sort of visual North Star, like they would have the dream list of clients written down, they would have some sort of work that they've seen done by others and they're benchmarking. But with what you do, and I know you growing year on year without people knowing really too much about what you do because you've got no social media presence, very minimal, you don't clown around about how to do this and that, but you focus on the work and you are one of the prime examples of you don't need social media to be successful. In fact, you need to be in the room looking at the blue and red cars. So, yeah, in terms of your growth and stuff, how are you driven and where do you see where you heading?

[Alex Suchet]

I guess on the social media point, it's relevant for some people's models. Right. And I decided it wasn't relevant for hours. And so if that's the case, why plunge so much time into developing it unless that social kudos means a great deal to you. And I can tell you it means nothing to me. So for me it was a no brainer. You just don't need to smell the roses or have other people hold roses to your nose or to tell everyone how great you're doing. But in terms of the style, kind of mystery Box's style, our North Star is quality. It's profitability, it's quality, it's nice clients who want your advice and who value your expertise and who have interesting problems and challenges that we know we can solve. And it's about having the integrity to decline the opportunity to work with people if there's a shred of doubt that we wouldn't do it to a world class standard because it's not worth our reputation and it's out of respect for them and wanting the best for them. So where's mystery orcs going? It's still, and I think always will be in hot pursuit of producing good work with a team of happy people and a team of of happy, grateful clients that we're grateful to have. And if we can keep growing, that would be great. And if we stagnated, we would all be very grateful for that too. And it's about going with a wind, Texas, because in six months time I might have a different answer.

[Radim Malinj]

You mentioned quality, not producing good work, not good pursuit. Because that's where the happiness comes from. Because it's the edges or the catchment area for happiness is much wider. Because you don't necessarily hope in that you will get a client who says, yeah, I really like this in your portfolio, can you do this for me? Because that's where the trouble and muddle starts. You don't do a repeat over repeat because when you open yourself to opportunities, you realize that you find the good, the profitable and the happiness in something you didn't even know existed. Because if you close yourself off to most of the opportunities and you're waiting for something that will just tickle your ego and tickle your sort of happiness from inwards, then I think that's toug to achieve. So it was a nice answer that when you said, this is where I'm heading with the studio, because for those that rely on social media or believe that social media is that sort of magic tree that will find them sort of path with new clients. How do you work with new clients? How do you find new clients? How do you find new opportunities? How do you make it work?

[Alex Suchet]

I'll use the analogy that clients are like friends. You don't go out into social media looking for friends. You make friends by being kind and by being open to new relationships and by treating the existing friends you have really well. Because then they'll introduce you to their other nice friends and then you make more friends. But you don't go onto social media saying hashtag kind, hashtag loyal, hashtag, you know, looking for friends. So I always believe that the best relationships occur organically. And you've got this client you do so well, and you know what, maybe they move job or they go somewhere else and their first call is to you to pull you in, or they have to make a recommendation to this other business owner they know. And so for me, I think the best relationships were acquired organically and without having to pay to run ads to convince them because you're already on the back foot as an agency, if you're in this position of selling to them from day one, if you're on a date with someone, you don't sit there and say, I'm very kind, I'm very funny, I'm very loyal. You demonstrate that by being funny, by being loyal and by being kind. Right. You're robbed of authenticity and like, like your sincerity from the off. In my opinion, if you're just blasting LinkedIn and Instagram to get your clients. So it's always been my belief that you attain clients via a route of authenticity because then the relationship starts on the right foot and you want each other equally instead of the agency just. Or whoever's getting paid, the payee begging to keep, you know more to convince them to part with their money. Because then you're just stuck in this cycle of proving yourself and it suddenly doesn't become a relationship and a shared journey to create quality. Actually, at that point, that's my opinion. I could be wrong.

[Radim Malinj]

I like how you say you don't go on social media to look for friends. You don't do that. I don't do that. But lots of people do that because unfortunately they haven't forged those sort of seeds. They haven't planted those seeds to grow them. In a confounding way. The future of the world is in a way, if you look at the world of social media, the world is obsessed with new business, like how do I grow? What's my numbers? Because lots of people don't know that enough. And not knowing you're enough, it's very, very, very distracting thing. So when you think about your process, when you think about how you've grown this stuff, it's a beautiful way of comparison to the dating. Like the first date when you said you don't go on a first day until I'm caring. When you watch the dating shows on tv, which sadly I'm a passive viewer of these shows because when my wife works in the evening, she puts an easy watch on the telly. It's usually like some trash like marry the first side or love triangle. And because these people are longing for something thing, you can almost see how much work they need in therapy and reassurance that there are enough, they're okay. You can see how those shows are casted with broken people or fragile people who are hoping that just because they were paired up with a stranger that they will have the best sex life in the world, they'll have the best parenting in the world, that like everything will be rosy. People I was coming here to find real love. I'm like, jesus. I'm like, I don't even go to a shop hoping I would find an avocado that sells avocados. This needs to grow organically. When we actually get a new conversation with a new client, we're like, oh, oh, yeah. And we are great at this and great at that. There is so much aligned with the dating world when it comes to creativity. When you are not sure of what you're doing, because when you are comfortable in your shoes, you're like, yeah, that bit, we're going to give it to somebody else or we're going to find you somebody else. That you are honest. You're like, you're truthful. You say, that's how you work when you haven't got it sort out. You work with everyone and anyone and you make a mess of it. Just like in your dating life.

[Alex Suchet]

It's relationships, right? It's all relationships. It's relationships with your colleagues, your clients. And just imagine a client coming to you and saying, please work with us, please. I promise we'll pay on time and I promise to work. It just feels odd, right? Let things happen and let the wind take you where it's supposed to go and just enter all these relationships, offering to give more than you're trying to take. And when I think of, like, our loveliest clients, there's such a strong sense of trust, trust in each other and of mutual gratitude and respect. And I think the same goes for the best friendships I have. We all know this stuff. It's inherent to us all. But we seem to apply a different rule when just the transaction of money is involved at the end of a process. And I think, I wonder if that's.

[Radim Malinj]

A mistake to read us out. What would you say is the main problem you solve and then you feel like you found a solution to it?

[Alex Suchet]

Why don't you warn me of these questions? Professionally, I think I've sold a different way of doing business and a different way of working. Mystery box. Everybody's been remote since 2011, which was Covid gave us the COVID to legitimize and authenticate that way of working. And I think I may have preempted that way of working really early. And I think I solved the conundrum of how an agency can be really efficient and profitable doing things differently. And I think personally, I established a working structure that I can sustain because I couldn't get the tube and work for an office every day. But I think I found a way that I can work 70 hours a week but happily without burnout and feel satisfied. And I feel really grateful for that.

[Radim Malinj]

I'm really happy. You sound very content. I've known you for a long time and it's nice to see you thrive. You've done things your way, you will keep doing them your way. And you've always been an inspiration to me, even though, you know, we've got age difference, you're younger. And I feel in some ways you're ahead of me in certain ways because there's a level of you being divorced from that egoistical signature style. I need to follow this, these values. I need to do this. Of course, you've got values of your own, but you looked at places and the ways of growth and development that some of our sort of visual partners and friends didn't even consider. And I think this is a testament to your success because done amazingly, I'm excited where it takes you and where it takes us and what you do next.

[Alex Suchet]

Thank you, mate. Thank you for the kind words and thank you so much for having me on.

[Radim Malinj]

Welcome. Thank you.

[Alex Suchet]

Thank you.

[Radim Malinj]

Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions or even suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinj. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by Neil McKay from 7 Million Bikes podcast and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time on your regular listener listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provide them with value. So thank you for helping out. Thank you.