Kelly Bensimon on The Golden Life, Reinventing Herself & Why She Embraces Being Misunderstood

Summary

Podcast Summary

Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

Episode: Kelly Bensimon on The Golden Life, Reinventing Herself & Why She Embraces Being Misunderstood
Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Rachel Uchitel
Guest: Kelly Bensimon

---

Overview

In this episode, Rachel Uchitel sits down with former model, author, editor, and Real Housewives alum Kelly Bensimon for a candid and often humorous exploration of reinvention, being misunderstood, and embracing complexity in the public eye. They cover Kelly’s evolving media presence, her foray into real estate, the power of second chances, and how fame, beauty, and family have shaped her narrative.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Returning to Reality TV & Real Storytelling

[01:02 – 03:14]

• Kelly’s return to reality TV was driven by E! Network’s modern storytelling approach, emphasizing women’s authentic stories over drama for drama’s sake.

• E! and Bravo felt "completely different"—E! prioritized depth and real voices, shifting away from the fame-obsessed atmosphere of Housewives circa 2009.

  "When I was on Housewives, it was 2009, Rachel. It was like the Ice Age... Everyone was just like, I’m famous. I’m like, okay, great. Congratulations."
  — Kelly, [01:48]

• Kelly reflects on joining Housewives post-divorce, motivated by a desire to connect with other women and try something new—not to chase notoriety.

2. Palm Beach vs. New York Living

[04:12 – 06:25]

• Kelly grew up visiting Palm Beach and spent COVID there, appreciating the peace, natural scenery, and sense of community.

• Despite being known as a quintessential New Yorker, Kelly describes herself as someone who “needs to touch grass”—balancing city hustle with the outdoors and downtime.

  "It’s either high heels or barefoot. That’s like I’m that wild juxtaposition."
  — Kelly, [06:09]

3. The Jill Zarin Situation & Reality TV Group Dynamics

[06:25 – 08:31]

• They discuss the infamous controversy with Jill Zarin, with Kelly expressing disappointment at missed opportunities to highlight positive, creative stories among the cast.

  "She basically self sabotaged... I was so disappointed."
  — Kelly, [07:36]

• Teases for the new show: "mass chaos" mixed with love and vibrant personalities redefines perceptions of age, fun, and reinvention.

  "It is just like a beautiful dance of, like, chaos and love."
  — Kelly, [09:01]

4. Being “Frozen in Time” and “Misunderstood” from Housewives

[10:32 – 14:28]

• Kelly recalls how her early 40s reinvention post-divorce was overlooked by production in favor of scapegoat drama, missing out on more relatable, real stories.

  "You didn’t see the real story. You want to see crazy and scary? Come into my real life and watch me make money to provide for my kids... That was frightening."
  — Kelly, [12:13]

• Reflects on how audiences and production might have handled these storylines differently today.

5. Modelling Career & Positive Upbringing

[16:07 – 22:29]

• Early start: Began modeling at 14 (runner-up to Cindy Crawford in a contest!) and moved to New York at 15, living with Stephanie Seymour.

• Credits her supportive family and Midwest roots for grounding her, allowing her to enjoy fashion without succumbing to its darker elements, though she discusses struggles with eating issues.

• Juxtaposition between the isolating, temporary friendships in modeling and her real desire for ongoing connection.

  "I’m a unicorn. That is not normal. A lot of these girls that start modeling come from absolutely nowhere... the modeling industry is their hug."
  — Kelly, [22:29]

6. Transition to Writing & Magazine Editing

[26:13 – 32:55]

• Mentored into writing by Jean Godfrey-June at ELLE, Kelly was one of their first bloggers.
• Higher education (Trinity, Columbia) taught her productivity “formula” for publishing and business.
• Landmark projects: Authored “In the Spirit of the Hamptons” and “American Style” (commissioned by Anna Wintour and the Met), emphasizing her curiosity, networking skills, and ability to ask the right questions to the right people.

7. Opinions on Fashion, Body Image & Style

[34:31 – 37:47]

• Modern fashion: The Met Gala’s spectacle is influential—regardless of taste, “it’s making an impact.”

• Her sense of style is rooted in model “rules,” leading her to create her book "I Can Make You Hot," combatting body shaming and sharing practical advice for women.

  "There is no way that anyone on my watch is going to be shamed about their weight."
  — Kelly, [36:41]

8. Major Pivot: Real Estate Career

[38:04 – 44:54]

• Entered real estate to handle family matters after her mom’s illness, finding unexpected success and passion; quickly licensed in multiple states.

• Attributes success to enthusiasm, deep knowledge, networking, and viewing real estate not as a numbers game but as a lifestyle—and creating generational wealth for clients.

  "I sell lifestyle because my clients are like... They just want all the intel. So I am selling my lifestyle to the women. And then the men are like, my wife’s so happy."
  — Kelly, [43:12]

• TV fame as a double-edged sword: opened some doors, but also brought unwanted attention from “Housewife” fans—not all serious buyers.

9. On Love, Relationships, and the Importance of Prenups

[47:09 – 52:34]

• Kelly discusses the end of her recent engagement, prioritizing her children and financial independence over romantic compromise due to prenup disagreements.

  "I make money. You make money. I probably will make more money... I’m just not gonna give it to you... this is not gonna happen."
  — Kelly, [49:39]

• Stresses the role of her lawyer and maintaining boundaries for her and her daughters’ future.

10. Modern Dating & Being a “Show Pony”

[53:17 – 56:30]

• Shares experiences on dating apps, being approached for her image, and the challenge of finding genuine connections.
• Finds humor and a bit of exasperation in the assumptions men make (“you’re going to be 60 and alone”), but embraces her independence and vibrance unapologetically.

11. Reality TV Real Talk: Real Estate Shows

[59:27 – 64:38]

• Offers industry “tea” on Altman brothers, Frederick and Steve Gold: she knows most personalities personally and helped some get their start.

• Critiques reality real estate shows like “Selling Sunset” for their lack of authenticity: real listings and buyers rarely want publicity, and her own approach is more substance than style.

  "If you stop talking like that [making real estate a spectacle], you will actually make money... I don’t sell real estate. I sell lifestyle."
  — Kelly, [43:12, 62:31]

12. Rivalries, Fame & Community

[64:38 – 69:18]

• Addresses her former dynamic with Bethenny Frankel as unnecessarily combative, rooted in insecurity rather than real conflict; expresses no hard feelings, preferring peace and personal growth.

  "If you’re not a part of a community and you’re not creating a community, you should really put social down. Just, you know, talk to your cat."
  — Kelly, [67:46]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Show me who you are... Don’t tell me how famous you are. Show me how great you are as a human.”
  — Kelly, [03:54]
• “I’m a dreamer. I just want to dream and just, like, look at beautiful things. I don’t need to do any—I mean, I’m already doing. Not worried about what I’m working on. I just want to dream bigger.”
  — Kelly, [71:05]
• “Make as many mistakes as you can, because if you don’t make mistakes, you’re never, ever gonna learn.”
  — Kelly, [73:13]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:02 – 03:14: Returning to Reality TV & changing production culture
• 04:12 – 06:25: Palm Beach vs. New York lifestyle
• 06:25 – 08:31: Jill Zarin controversy and cast dynamics
• 10:32 – 14:28: Being misunderstood by Housewives’ audience and producers
• 16:07 – 22:29: Modeling beginnings, family support, and transitions
• 26:13 – 32:55: From model to writer and editor at ELLE and Aslene
• 34:31 – 37:47: Fashion industry and style rules
• 38:04 – 44:54: Real estate career origin and success strategies
• 47:09 – 52:34: Relationships, breakups, and the financial realities of love
• 59:27 – 64:38: Behind the scenes of real estate reality shows
• 64:38 – 69:18: Friendship, rivalries, and meaning in community/fame
• 70:28 – 73:18: Final thoughts, bucket lists, and embracing reinvention

---

The Takeaway

Kelly Bensimon’s story is not one of scandal or meme-worthy moments, but of constant reinvention, fierce independence, and a refusal to be defined by a single headline or stereotype. Unafraid to discuss both the glamour and grit of her journey, she champions authenticity—encouraging listeners to embrace being misunderstood, remain positive, and never stop dreaming.

---

For full context, listen from [01:02] onward to skip intro/ads.
This summary captures major thematic threads and specific timestamps for deeper listening.

Transcript

[A]

Sam.

[B]

Kelly, I'm so happy to finally meet you and have you here on Misunderstood. Welcome to the show.

[A]

Thank you so much, Rachel. This is so cool. We should have met so many years ago, by the way.

[B]

I know. And we were just talking about it. You finally have gone back to New York. You were here for a while. I wish I had met you when you were down in Palm Beach. But I'm so excited for your new show to be coming out. The trailer just dropped, and everybody's super excited about it. So I guess my first question would obviously be, what made you decide to come back to reality tv?

[A]

You know, first of all, it was E. And just everything that, you know, E. Represents and all the great, great brands that they've built, I just love them so much. So I was really excited to work with E. And also the producers just, like, the way that they think is just so modern and cool. And I just was like, they're just real storytellers. And I think it's really important to hear women's actual stories. And if you want to fight about it, you can. But, like, I really love stories.

[B]

Right. Was there a difference in shooting for a Bravo show versus an E Show? I mean, it's the same cast, essentially. So did you feel like it was completely different this time?

[A]

Completely different.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because of that point about really, you know, highlighting people's real stories and hearing their voices and, you know, their fears and their accomplishments. And, you know, I think sometimes we get like. Like, you know, when I was on. When I was on Housewives, it was 2009, Rachel. It was like the ice Age. Like, yeah. And it was just like, everyone was just like, I'm famous. I'm like, okay, great. Congratulations. Be famous all day. Like, everyone's just like, but I'm more famous than you. I'm like, that is so fantastic. Like, I'm like, that is. Oh, congratulations. I love that for you. I was like, who are these people?

[B]

Right?

[A]

And why do they want to be famous?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I just wanted to be on a show and talk to women and, you know, kind of see where women were in New York and, you know, see what was going on and take a leap of faith and try something totally different. Right. I'd recently gotten divorced, and I had two young kids at the time. And, you know, I really needed to get out of the shell of this, you know, quiet world in New York and just explore and celebrate, you know, whatever was going to happen. I mean, I've been modeling since 14 years old. This is not like, I Didn't just start working yesterday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I was just excited to do that. And honestly, I was just like. Literally, I was like, two scenes in there. Like, don't you know who I am? I'm like, no idea. And I literally didn't know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, like, you and I have met a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, we meet people all the time, every single day. I mean, I ever heard anyone be like, do you know who I am?

[B]

Well, yes, I've heard people say that. And it's such a.

[A]

Like. And no one ever says that to me. I'm like, no, I don't know why I am.

[B]

But people say it thinking it's like, you know, that they are putting themselves on a pedestal, and it's so embarrassing. And they don't realize how embarrassing it is. We've met a ton of people. We're not that impressed by people. Do you know what I mean? And that's how I know the true people that I really love. Because when I'm impressed by somebody, they don't have to be famous. That's not it. But there's something about them that impresses me, that says a lot to me because I've met so many people just like you.

[A]

I mean, I'm like a show me who you are kind of person. Like, don't tell me.

[B]

Right, Totally tell me who you are.

[A]

Don't tell me how famous you are. Show me how great you are as a human.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Show me how great you are as a mother. Show me how great you are as a business person. But don't tell me, because I can already smell that a mile away.

[B]

Right, exactly. So how did you feel about Palm Beach? Had you spent a lot of time down here?

[A]

So I grew up going to Palm beach, so my dad was a lawyer, and a lot of his clients were in Palm beach, so we used to go there as children. And then I spent Covid there, which was so nice. And so, like, I know Palm beach so well. You know, a lot of my friends live there, and it just was really, really easy. I mean, I was literally filming and then hanging out with my friends. And I loved it. I loved being down there. Riding every day, running every morning. It just was a really. It was great. It was really fun.

[B]

Do you think that you'll ever come down here or get a place down here?

[A]

You know, I really. Rachel, I really like it down there.

[B]

Yeah, it's so fun. I just moved three years ago from New York. And, like, I know that you love New York, like, You are a New Yorker through and through, like, inside of you. I can tell that about you. Your style, the way you are, the fast pace. Like, I think you really like that. But Palm beach has something that, like, once you're down here, it's so. What is the word? You feel kind of at peace. Do you know what I mean? And you feel seen, but also you can be part of that fast crowd and then you don't have to be, but you don't feel like you're missing out on anything. Very peaceful.

[A]

Well, I love what I love about Florida so much. It's like, it seems like it's all these little hamlets. So it's like, you know, West Palm is one, Soso is another. You know, obviously the island is one. There's all sorts of different groups on the island. And then you have like, Jupiter and all that. It's like, it's just so vast. And I have so many. Again, I have so many friends there. It's funny that you say that I'm such a New Yorker because I'm from Rockford, Illinois. And so the New York is where I work. You know, it's where I've done most of my. Is my work life. But I mean, I've raised my kids as much as I could in the Hamptons. Like, I really need to touch grass. Like, I'm a. You know, I am not. And, you know, I mean, I love to wear high heels, but I mean, it's either high heels or barefoot.

[B]

Like, right?

[A]

That's like I'm that wild juxtaposition.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I love New York and I love everything it has to offer. But I'm not a fast paced kind of person. I do my work, I get it done, and then I go and hang out with my friends and touch grass. Right.

[B]

I love that. I wanna hear more about that. So. But before we get to that, I wanna just ask you a few more questions. I know that this show got off to a rocky start because of what happened with Jill, Zarin. So. And I listen, I'm friends with Jill. I love her. I was there when the whole thing happened, you know, so. But I saw all the press, obviously, as we all did. I mean, it was made fun of on Saturday Night Live. I mean, it became the biggest story of the moment after the Super Bow. So did you go into this feeling like, oh, God, this is a problem, or were you like, this is great press, or how did you feel going into it with the group? Because the group now changed?

[A]

No, I called her and I was like, what did you do? Yeah. I was like, what did you just do? She's like, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. I said, no, no, you don't know. What did you do? We could have had the best time, you know, talking about, like, what a great mother you are, doing all these amazing. How incredible you are, creative. And she, you, like, she's such a. She's such a beautiful human. And it's just like. I was just like, what did you do? Why did you do that? Like, why did you. She basically self sabotaged.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, can't you just enjoy, like, your new life? Which is. Which is fantastic. And let me celebrate that with you. So. I was so disappointed.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So disappointed.

[B]

I know. So.

[A]

And I love her so much. And I, you know, it's just like, you know, people just don't realize. And I think this is just like something in. In this world where, you know, everybody just thinks that just because there's a camera that followed them around at one point or another, that they just have the liberty to just chat up a storm. And it's like, know your audience.

[B]

Very good point. Very good point. So is there anything we can expect? Because I know you probably can't say a lot about the show, but we've heard little to, you know, tidbits here and there. I know Dorinda was pissed about some people being late. There's all sorts of things that I heard from being on the island of how the filming went. But all in all, can you give us a little tidbit of what we should expect from this season?

[A]

I think that people are gonna be surprised. I think they're gonna be surprised. I think that there is so much going on, the dynamics are so strong. And one thing that I loved about the show is that, you know, they're always talking about 50 being a new 30 and, like, 60 being the new 40. Well, it's true. And these. We're all just living our best lives and doing so many different things. And it is mass chaos.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But it is just like a beautiful dance of, like, chaos and love. And chaos and love. It's amazing. It's amazing.

[B]

So you're glad you did it?

[A]

Oh, 100%.

[B]

Oh, good. I love hearing 100%.

[A]

So much more than Ultimate. I mean, so much more than ultimate.

[B]

Oh, yeah, tell me about that.

[A]

I mean, ultimate was only seven days.

[B]

Yeah. Who was on the cast?

[A]

It was me, Dorinda, Luann, Ramona, Sonia, and Kristin Tapin.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

And I Just feel like ultimate was just too short. And I felt like a lot of the women had watched or were watching Scary island while we were filming. I'm like, you guys, you do realize you're, like, giving me air time, don't you? I'm like, hello.

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[A]

Can I say that? What are you doing? Right? But I think they were just trying to reenact that, and they were just like, well, she's not scary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I'm like, I'm really not, like, you know, she's not unhinged. I'm like, I'm not unhinged. Well, I'm a badass, right? I'm. I am a mama bear. I will protect you. I will make sure you're safe. But I'm not unhinged, and I'm definitely not crazy.

[B]

Do you feel.

[A]

I wish I were, though, because it would give me a vibe, Rachel.

[B]

Yeah, no, I know what you mean, though.

[A]

I could be sexy. I could be cool.

[B]

Right.

[A]

My dark makeup.

[B]

Right, right. But do you think people be like, how are you?

[A]

I'd be like, I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

Right, right. But do you feel like.

[A]

Be like, alluring?

[B]

People froze you in one moment in time in Housewives for a little bit.

[A]

They did.

[B]

Like, but did you feel misunderstood about it? Were you upset about it? Or were you like, okay, this got me a lot of airtime. Whatever.

[A]

Well, you know, it's hard because I. At the time, you know, I was working for three magazines at the time, raising my kids, and no one wanted to hear about my work life. No one wanted to hear that I was recently divorced. No one wanted to hear anything about that. They just wanted me to be a socialite and an it girl and for the women to be upset. So I'm like, okay, fine, I get that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But then when I. Then I realized that they had a show to another show to produce and that I was going to be the scapegoat to make that other show better. I was like, you're going to. It's like, don't you know? Can't you produce something better than this? Like, I'm going to be your scapegoat.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You do realize that people do know who I am and that they do know what I've done, and the way that you're trying to make me look doesn't resonate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you put me on another season, and I'm having the time of my life. How does that work? The math doesn't. Math. Right. So I think it was fun and spirited and congratulations for those big memes. I'm up here, you're down there, and scary island. Boo. So congratulations on that. But at the end of the day, like, they could have celebrated or explored a woman in her early 40s who was going through this very, very, very difficult time of trying to reinvent herself again after getting divorced. And really, like, how. How do people. How do women after you get divorced actually make money?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, that would have been a story you wanted to see. You didn't see the real story. You want to see crazy and scary come into my real life and watch me make money to provide for my kids so they have the education that no one can take away from them. And that was frightening.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's such a good point.

[A]

I missed the boat. I'm like, you guys didn't even. You're like. You're so busy trying to, like, make gummy bears a thing that you missed the real story, which was the heartbreak and the fear that I had during that time and later on. Yeah, like, you missed the boat. You didn't know what you were doing.

[B]

I mean, I totally agree, and I hear what you're saying. I feel like production way back when, like, you were ahead of your time, almost, like, in terms of. That wouldn't have been a storyline. Cause it was almost, like, too traumatic for people that would be watching it because so many people were going through it, but no one wanted to talk about it. Now I feel like. Yeah, I feel like now to reinvent yourself is such a big deal. Everyone's trying to do it, and we all want the secret code on how to do it. Right. Thank God we're. I'm 51, you know? Like, I feel like. Thank God we've been through it, because now we know how to do it. If God forbid, anything happened in your life, in my life, like, we know how to climb out of that hole. So I really, you know, appreciate those times that I've been at the other end of the pendulum of, like, being in the worst time ever. Because to that same extent, I can be in the best time ever. If you don't experience it, you don't know how to get out of it.

[A]

So we should write a book together.

[B]

I know. We should.

[A]

We should. Rachel Kelly. Rachel Kelly, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's the truth. And I think that people were scared at the time. I think that talking about divorce, talking about reinventing yourself, was something that was very. I mean, like, that's what I did as An. As an editor is I was constantly looking to the past to see how that was gonna forecast the future. Yeah. So that was always something that I always. How I always think. And television isn't like that. Television is, like, right now. Well, they missed the boat, like, because they missed. They missed. I mean, I have amazing children.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, unbelievable children that I raised on my own. And it just. It's like.

[B]

It.

[A]

You know, it just. It's a disservice.

[B]

And.

[A]

But anyway, they tried to make me crazy, but not crazy enough because I don't get to wear the dark sunglasses. And, you know, coal eyeshadow is not my vibe. So this is all, like, not good, Right?

[B]

Well, it's funny because you. You're stuck in the middle. You're way too pretty to be that, like, edgy, you know, person. I feel like. So it's like, people don't know if to hate you or love. I think people are probably threatened by you because of the way you look. And so they'll grab onto anything, whether it's the crazy story because it makes you, to them, less threatening because they're so threatened. I mean, that's. To me, as an outsider, what it looked like, you know?

[A]

Well, it was interesting that you. It's interesting you say that because, like, on Ultimate, I. You know, so I sell real estate. I'm licensed in three states, and I was doing this major deal with Josh Rubin in Encinitas, California. And so I'm sitting. You know, they're. They're off chatting about whatever, and I'm sitting in the. In the. In my Bathing. In a bikini, and I. My sunglasses, and I'm like, what are you doing over there? I'm like, mama's got to make some money. And one of the girls goes. And I'm just like, do you even know what it takes to make money? Do you even know how to make money? Like, real money? Like, real cash in the bank money for yourself? I've been doing it all my life, so I know how to do it. But, like, I'm not sitting here, you know, telling everyone how to do it. Like, I'm not like, here's the ABCs on how to make money. But if I need to make money and I'm filming, you better believe that I will excuse myself and make some money, because that's for my kids, right?

[B]

100%. All right, well, let's talk about that. So let's go back. You said you were from Illinois, which I didn't know. Okay, so what did you want to Be when you grew up, when you were little?

[A]

I started modeling when I was so young.

[B]

Did you feel like that was what you wanted to do?

[A]

I don't. I know. I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a surgeon.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I was like, I really go with my hands. Like, I don't know. I'm just. And that sounds really creepy, Rachel. I'm so good with the hands.

[B]

Did you play that little game when you were a little operation? Do you remember that game?

[A]

Yes. But I used to do, like, all creepy things, like dissect animals from the creek and, like, all sorts of weird stuff. I was awful. I'd be like, look what I brought to school. I'd be like, where'd you get that? I'm like, the creek. They're like, ew. Oh, my God.

[B]

Hysterical. So how were you? How did you become a model?

[A]

So my dad told you was a lawyer. And one of his clients we were in. I was picking him up from a club in Chicago, and one of his clients was like, that's your daughter. And my dad's like, yeah. And he's like, she should be a model. My dad's like, no, thanks.

[B]

How old were you?

[A]

And then I was 14. And then I entered this contest, and Cindy Crawford won, and I was the runner up. Stuns. Yeah.

[B]

Hey, guys.

[A]

Fly on the Walls back for another season. That's right. On audio and video. Every Monday and Thursday, follow and listen to Fly on the Wall everywhere. You get your podcasts.

[B]

Wow. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, she's older than I am, but I was like. I was like, God, she's so pretty. And I had literally. Rachel, remember, like, you're almost 10 years younger than me, but back then, there was, like, this. Everyone was, like, cutting their hair bi level.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So right before the contest, I had hair like this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I went, whoop. Literally days before.

[B]

Oh, my God. Well, obviously, it must've looked great if you came in second.

[A]

I thought it was so cool.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. All right.

[A]

We didn't have extensions back then.

[B]

Right. God, I don't know how anyone survived. I mean, Jesus.

[A]

All the photographers were like, put your hand like this. So there's all these photos of me,

[B]

and I. Oh, no, I love it. Okay, so, well, how was Cindy Crawford? Was she nice?

[A]

Amazing? Brilliant? Beautiful? Kind? Fantastic.

[B]

Beautiful. I love hearing that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then you win runner up. And then how does this blow into a career for you?

[A]

Then they just are like, basically, like, you have to come to New York. And so I moved to new. I mean, I went. I didn't move. I went to New York and Stephanie Seymour and I lived together and I started, you know, I worked for Vogue the next day.

[B]

Wait, was she famous back then or she just.

[A]

She was. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so everyone.

[A]

She was already starting to be famous. She was 15. We were all 15.

[B]

Oh, my God. Oh, I didn't realize that all of you guys were that young. Jesus.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wow. Okay.

[A]

We lived next door to John Cassablancas wife. And. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. You know, I'd done some interviews with some interesting people that were in that industry, and they absolutely hated it and regret it and have all these bad things to say. But when you're talking about it, you have a smile on you, your face. Was it good for you?

[A]

Well, because, you know, I'm from Illinois, so I would go and have fun. And all my friends from my sister. My sister went to. My sister went to college at Trinity in Hartford, so all of her friends were in New York, and they're like two years older than me. So I was hanging out with them. And then I was like, running, you know, running around, going to these casting is, meeting all these people that were so bizarre, right? And then I was going home and, like, playing tennis. Like, I was like, this is wild. This is so fun.

[B]

I mean, and then.

[A]

And then I ended up going to Trinity as well. And then really, really modeling a lot. And it was very, very stressful just being, like, back and forth. But I have to be honest with you, like, I had a really. I had a really, really good experience with the modeling industry. I also have great parents who, you know, I'm like, mom and dad. I'm going to wherever my dad be like, okay, we're coming. And they would hang out and they'd be like, okay, go have a tennis less. I would go off and do whatever. The only bad thing that I can say was just about my eating issues. They were just awful. I mean, I had to come back. I had to come back from Europe when I was 19 just because it was just so bad.

[B]

Oh, wow. Okay. Did you end up watching the documentary that came out recently about Tyra Banks and that whole thing?

[A]

I haven't seen the whole documentary, but I know Tyra from forever.

[B]

Right. I had Nigel on. Did you ever work with Nigel the photographer worker?

[A]

Yeah, I know him as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had him on a couple weeks ago and he was talking about it, and he didn't feel as terribly about Tyra that most people talked about her in the documentary. What did you think about that whole process, maybe not just about her, but that kind of reality show was such a big reality show and really changed lives for these young girls. And mostly it sounds like in a terrible way.

[A]

I mean, I think what's different about my experiences versus being on a reality show is when you're on a reality show, you're under a microscope.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I was going to castings. Nobody knew if I got the cast, got the job or not. Like, nobody really knew. But on a reality show there's a narrative and there is an arc. So you have to like, something bad has to happen. There has to be a reinvention. There has, you know, there's all these different things and when you're really modeling, it doesn't really happen like that. You can be a one hit wonder like that or you can be a slow and steady. Like it just, it's, it's not the same situation. I mean, we don't have that. You know, after being a model and then being an editor, you know, I started L Accessories, so I would hire all these models. You know, I, I, it just doesn't, it really is not like that. Yeah, I mean I was a real, I was a big model and so was Tyra. And you know, yeah, the photographers were skeevy. But like, I'm from Rockford, Illinois. Like, if you can't play tennis or golf, I don't want to be around you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't want to be surround some guy wearing black tight jeans. Like, what?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ew.

[B]

Right, right. I love that.

[A]

Like, do you have any pants with like whales on them or like, you know, something like that? That's my God.

[B]

That's my type.

[A]

I was just like, I don't know who you are. I'm like, we are not the same.

[B]

So you were able to turn it off. You were able to be in the moment, be a model, and then you were able to go home, be with your family, appreciate life and be away from that.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, but Rachel, I mean, and I'm a unicorn. Like, that is not normal. A lot of these girls that start modeling come from absolutely nowhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come from broken homes and the modeling industry is their hug. And you know, I have friends who have been, you know, who I've made, who have, you know, known through that process. And it's also a very, very. People think it's super insular and it's like the 90s supermodel crowd. It is not that at all. It's wildly trans. You meet some like you and I would be on a job together for two weeks, we'd get along, we'd be best friends, and I would never see you again. And that was how it was. And so it was just. It was just, you know, the insecurity that is bred from that environment is just wild. And I also think that's one reason why I do well on reality TV is because even though I have insecurities about, you know, being able to provide for my kids and being the best mom and doing things, you know, being a good role model, those are my. Those are my core insecurities. I have a lot of confidence because I've done a lot of things and I have experienced a lot of things. So it's like this weird juxtaposition and a lot of these girls are just wildly insecure and one guy takes advantage of them or one agent takes advantage of them, or, you know, whatever, you know, whatever it is that happens. And, you know, it's not easy for a lot of people.

[B]

It also sounds like you learn to be good about not getting attached and being able to move from, you know, job to job, person to person, befriend the people in the moment, and then move to the next thing and not get so attached that you're missing and longing for something else. Which I personally think is a skill. That's something that I learned to do just from like being sent to boarding school and never living at home past the age of 12 and having to figure it out, you know, and you grow up faster. But you also really can count on yourself. You learn to count on yourself. And it might take you a while to get that, but other people go in the other direction, do you know what I mean? And get really attached to things and almost lose themselves and their vision for their career because they just want to be with the person that makes them feel loved or hugged, as you like to say, you know?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I think that's also. I think it's. It's a double edged sword. I think on the one hand it's great to be able to have that skill set where you can navigate different worlds. On the other hand, it makes filming housewives difficult because we want the viewer. And me as a person, I want to create connections, real connections. And so sometimes it's hard for me because I'm just like, we film and then we're gone. And I'm just like, oh, okay, I'm back to being 19 again. Where we were, were in Mauritius for 12 days. And then I don't see you ever again and then, you know.

[B]

Yeah, I can understand that. Wait, so now talk about it's like

[A]

hard because you don't have real. We don't have real friends.

[B]

Yeah, no, I totally can see that. Yeah.

[A]

And like your friends are from your world, you know, and for your. From your kids. And that's, and that's really, like, my friends are from my kids and from horses. Like, those are my true core friends. I mean, I would wish I could say that, you know, I, you know, I see Jill Zarin all the time or I see this person or I see that person all the time, but I just don't. And it's hard. It's hard.

[B]

But it is nice to know that you have people that have been through different things with you. So you can call on Jill or people you've kind of trauma bonded, so to speak, because, you know, they've been through those things that not a lot of people have. I think that's good that you have that.

[A]

Yes, 100%.

[B]

So now talking about, I mean, I

[A]

think that trauma bonding is like a real thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And yeah, I mean it really, really. There is like that baseline of like, okay, you were, you were in that. I was in that. We can be friends.

[B]

Yeah. I want to hear more about how you got into like the second part of your career because you were a model and then all of a sudden you're working with Elle. Right. Is that what came next? How did, how did that happen?

[A]

So my, one of my, one of my professors at Columbia was like, your. Your mom. He's like, most people in this business and you know this, there they were like either one or the other. You're either a model or you're an academic. And my professor was like, I'm a poet. He's like, let's have you start writing. And a woman by the name of Jean Godfrey June started this, the first blog called Elle.com and she, you know, I was modeling for Elle and everything. And she's like, you know, we would, I would go and meet her all the time. And she was like, you're just, you know, you have a really interesting perspective on things. Would you ever consider writing? And I was like, it's funny that you say that because I'm at Columbia and I'm a writer and I would love to do something for you. And so I became one of the literally not self, I guess, self proclaimed first bloggers for ELLE.com and she really nurtured me and taught me how to write well. And also in, like, magazine speak. Like, you know, writers can write novels, but writing for a magazine is very short, like, fun, charming, engaging. It's a totally different kind of way of writing. And she taught me how to do that, and, you know, I love her for it.

[B]

Wait, does anyone, like, stop you and say, wait a minute. You went to Trinity? You went to Columbia?

[A]

Like, yeah, at my mba.

[B]

Yeah, like, hello.

[A]

Licensed in free state. Yeah, I know, but I'm, like, crazy and stupid. Rachel, don't blow my cover. Come on.

[B]

But I love that about you people. This is, like. This is super hard. These are super hard schools to get into, not the podcast. Wait, were people, like, you're too pretty to be here? Like, what?

[A]

I don't know. What, are they saying that about you?

[B]

No, stop. I didn't go to those colleges, and I'm definitely not a model, so.

[A]

Well, you're amazing, and you've been through a lot.

[B]

Thank you. All right, so I want to go back to. All right, that's so funny. Hold on. What was your favorite job that you had? I mean, forget real estate. Cause I know you're in that and you're having a moment, and this is great, but, like, leading up to this and changing all these different things, like, and you worked for. Didn't you, like, help write for Aslene or something?

[A]

Oh, yeah. I've written seven books.

[B]

I mean, hello. How did you do that? I don't get it. Is this from your education or it's just stuff you got passionate about and met the right people at the right time?

[A]

Well, I mean, both. So I was at Columbia, and it's like, they just teach you this formula of, like, just. This is what you do. You just put it in the formula and just spits it right out. And you just keep doing it over and over and over and over again. I mean, there's something to be said about higher education. I mean, it is not. It is not for the faint heart. Yeah.

[B]

And do they give you the contacts, like, because you went there? Do you think it opened more doors?

[A]

No, I just knew how to plug it into the formula.

[B]

Got it. Okay.

[A]

Like, if you ask me to do something, I'll be like, rachel, I got it. No problem.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

And it's not that I'm so great. I just know the formula.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's not, you know, it's just like. So anyway, Ast. Celine, where they were coming to the US And I had. I wanted to write for. I got an opportunity to write for Hamptons Magazine and the one of the editors was a friend of mine, and she was like, I'm just gonna give you everything. So I was responsible for, like, 80% of this magazine. In my early 20s, I'm like, what? But I would call my friend. I would, like, be like, working with Calvin. I'd be like, calvin can give me a quote on, like, what summer means to you. And I was just like, writing, asking all my friends and then writing them down and putting them in the magazine. Everyone's like, where'd you get that quote? I was like, oh, I just was with that person. So I asked them the question, then I just wrote it down. And then I wrote a column. Cause I wanted to do something that would. It's one thing to be to color the pages and make them pretty, but it's another thing to create where the money is. Like, where is the money, Rachel? That's all. I like, I'm like, I'm a money person. So I'm like, okay, this is a great magazine, but we need to make more money. And so my publisher was like, okay, what do you want to do? And I was like, I'm going to create this magazine called in the Spirit of. And I'm going to bring in everything from New York and everything from the Hamptons, and I'm going to put it together and I'm going to, like, spit it out. It's going to be called in the Spirit of it, and it's going to be a list. And he's like, kelly, what? It became this wildly well known article.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And then I wrote another article which was the opposite of the list, which was like 25 of the best of the best. It was the one thing. The one thing that no one else could have. So I had these two columns, and I was in charge of all the beauty and the fashion, which is, you know, which I. What I knew. But these columns really thrust me into, like, superstardom. Because in the Spirit of. When Astland came, they were like, well, you've already been doing this. You know so much about the area you've been interviewing. The landscaper, the pharmacist, the old guard moniker, the socialite, the nail color, you know, the nail person, the this person, the equestrian, all these different people. So I had been literally meeting everybody and interviewing them. So he's like, write a book. And so that was the. My first book called in the Spirit of the Hamptons. So it was really, really fun and just was so nice to celebrate an area that I love so much and for people to really see that. You've been to the Hamptons many times, but just to see how the Hampton. The Hamptons is. There's so many different Hamptons. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And so it was just really. It was a great, great book. And then I was asked by Anna Wintour to write American Style, and that really, like, threw me into a whole different stratosphere. Wow. I wrote it for the Met at the beginning. This is like, the genesis of Costume Institute. When Anna Wintour was at Vogue and she had this group of eight women, you had to be invited. And it wasn't because you. The best designer or whomever. It was like, you were just a very curious human that loved fashion. And so they invited. I was one of the youngest, one of the. One of the eight. And. And I was like, I want to write this book. And she's like, gave me all the archives. And then Harper's Bazaar gave me all their archives for free.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I wrote this book called American Style, which was. Which is. Instead of doing this narration of, like, this is when we started, and this is who we. We are. And this is your history lesson with Kelly. I, like, put, like, Madonna next to, like, you know, in 19, you know, 1970s designer. And I, like. I juxtaposed all these different images, and the images are so wildly fantastic. And then Bergdorf Goodman took all the photos and wrapped the store. And then I got Ellen. Wow.

[B]

That is insane. That is insane. Wait a minute. Speaking of Anna Wintour, do you have a feeling about all the conversation pieces around what's going on with the Met Gala and the fact that people don't want to go, it's too expensive. And the whole Jeff Bezos and Lauren Bezos situation, I just think that she's

[A]

so fantastic, and she's just. She's such a pioneer in the. In the real, you know, nature of the word. She is such a game changer. She. She doesn't care what you think. She just wants you to be successful. And that is so unique. You know, so many people are so concerned and consumed by what other people think, and she's just like, you're not doing it right. Do it this way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, yeah, she's just a mastermind. She really is. And she was so clever to make the Costume Institute something that people could dream about.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So whether you like it or not, you're dreaming when you watch. And I think that's something that's so incredible.

[B]

Do you think the style has gotten weird. Like, what did you think of this last week's, you know, Met Gala?

[A]

I mean, I think that, you know, it's. It was. It was based on the best of the best dresses that the designers could make. And I think that designers are just having a moment of creativity, and, you know, whether you like it or not, you're watching it.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[A]

So it's. It's making an impact.

[B]

Yeah. Where do you get your fashion ideas from? Like, when somebody's looking down your Instagram or they see all the stuff that you've done, you're clearly fashionable in it on an everyday sense, but you have a sense of style in general. Where do you think you got that from?

[A]

I got that from being a model.

[B]

You did?

[A]

100%. Because they would say, like, wear capris with plaits. Wear a turtleneck with capris with flats. Wear a black miniskirt and a black turtleneck and black tights and heels. Don't wear too high of a shoe. If you're gonna wear a high shoe, only wear bare legs. Like, it's like, all. There's, like, rules. Wow. So when people see me, they're like, oh, that looks good. I'm like, because I follow the rules, right?

[B]

Oh, my God, that's so interesting. Have you written a book on that?

[A]

They're just rules.

[B]

Oh, see, that's.

[A]

So I wrote a book called I can make you hot in 2011, which was healthy options today. Everyone's like, you can make me hot? I was like, damn straight I can.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[A]

I mean, I can make you healthy. I don't know if I can make you, like, smoking hot, but I can make you hot.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And that was just basically like. It was. Instead of doing writing another one of these books that was, you know, how fabulous and amazing I am. It was Monday through Sunday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this is like your Monday through Sunday. What you're gonna. How you're going to do it, your food narrative, your clothing uniform, and then Sunday's your fun day, and you're going to enjoy your life. And it was kind of like the tricks from my fashion days and then just my mom's recipe. So it was a really fun book to write, but it was also something that really forecasted body shaming. And I was just like, there is no way that anyone on my watch is going to be shamed about their weight.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Did you notice how the world completely went nuts over the Carolyn Bessette and John Kennedy Jr. Documentary? Or docu series. And now everybody is trying to dress like her.

[A]

He was in my. Well, he was in office above me, so I would see him all the time.

[B]

Oh, no way.

[A]

And, like. Cause we were at l. We were at a shed. So it'd be like, John's coming in, and he would, like, zip in on his bike and just like, a very nice person. Right, right.

[B]

For sure. Did you ever meet her?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Because she worked for Calvin, right? Yeah. She was just like, you know, girl from Connecticut, easy. You know, just like, you know, she was a VIP dresser, so it's just, like, made people feel good, which is not easy. You know what I mean? Like, at the time, you have to remember, the VIPs were like, Meryl Streep and, you know, Annette Bening, and, you know, it was like, iconic women.

[B]

And they're just like, real VIPs, not, like, influencer VIPs.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. They're not like, you know, whoever it is today, they're like these major, major, major stars or actors.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And they're just like, I'm not wearing that. Whatever that is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I'm like, I wouldn't wear it either.

[B]

Right, right, right, Exactly. Okay, now, how did you get into real estate? Because, again, it's like, you. I understand the changes in things up until this point. What made you pick real estate?

[A]

Okay, so that's like, everything has from. From now on. Before, it was like these little pivots. Micro pivots. Right. But then it was like, this major, major pivot. My mother fell ill, and I had to sell my family's homes. And so I got my license, like, literally immediately. I mean, everyone's like, it takes all this time. I was like, well, if you need to get something done, get it done.

[B]

And was the intention just to help your family sell this, or were you like, oh, I'm gonna make a career of this?

[A]

Oh, no, no, no. I was. I had no interest in real estate. Like, I was like, whatever. I mean, I built a home. I bought and sold apartments before, like, real estate was like, the land of the bad shoes. I was like, no, thank you. Like, this is not my vibe. Like, no, thank you. And so I got my license, and I sold one of my family's properties. And then Covid hit and that, and I was in Florida, and one of my clients was like, I need an apartment for my son. Like, 30 million downtown. So I'm like, okay. So I texted a couple of my friends, and I was like, you guys, I need something in New York. And he's like, one of my friends is like, oh, what about mine? And I said, what about yours? He's like, I just. Kelly, I just redid my apartment. I'm like, I don't know everything about everything. Like, you know. And so he's like, go and see mine when you come back. So I came back to New York and went to go see it. The client came, and they're like, okay, I'll take it. And I was like, okay. And they're like, how much? I'm like, you tell me. And they're like, no, no, you tell me. I'm like, no, you tell me. So it's just like, back and forth, which is not real estate. It's always like, it's 49.95. God, yuck. Stop talking like that. I'm Dana Carvey. I'm David Spade. Flying the walls back for another season now on audio and video every Monday and Thursday. So many incredible guests will be joining us. Follow and listen to Fly on the Wall Everywhere. You get your podcast too Good Be true. And so I just was like, didn't respond. Totally ghosted this guy.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And he's like, Kelly. I'm like, yes. He's like, okay, how about 42? I was like, okay, I'll take it. So I call my client. I'm like, I just got you 42. He goes, okay. He goes, you did? I was like, yeah, I just got you $12 million more. Right?

[B]

Right. 12. Timeout. Timeout. $12 million more than the ask. So. But up until this point, had you been doing little deals here and there besides your family? Like, did you feel like you were involved in real estate and.

[A]

Kind of. But I. You know, kind. I mean, a little bit. Like, I was doing, like, some influencing. I would go and see. Cause I'm, like, curious. So I would go and, like, I went to all the new developments, and I would take video. And so I became, like, the new development queen. Because people are like, no one. No one. No one goes to see these places. You know? I was like, no one even, like, knows anything about what's available out there. And I was just like, let me go see. Let me see their swimming pool. Let me go see their golf simulators. Yada, yada, yada. Because this is something new. It was like, the new bright and shiny thing. And I wanted to be a part. I wanted to see it. That's my nature, is to, like, be educated. And so, yeah, that happened.

[B]

Wait, was it hard for you to pass the test? I feel like so many People are like, oh, I can't do it. I have to hire someone to pass the test. Clearly, you're very smart, but did you find it hard? No.

[A]

No, no. Okay. New York. I passed immediately because I had to. Florida, I think it took me, like, five times, six times.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I mean, I was just like, oh, can I live again? California. I had no choice. Like, you have to pass. I had. Cause I literally flew in. I had to pass. And I had this really, really gorgeous Harry Geisner home in Malibu, and I literally needed to get my name. I need to get my license, like, right now. And so that was, like, mandatory.

[B]

So do you think that this was a case of you had developed the skills where you knew how to monetize your list of names in your phone, and it worked out well for you? I feel like during COVID so many people were like, okay, I'm gonna be a real estate agent, or O.B. as you know, you come down to Florida, every woman says she's a real estate agent. It means she doesn't have a job and she has a rich boyfriend. So, like, how did you turn it into a real career? Because this was a big different move for you.

[A]

Because, you know, I sell. I sell to the masters of the universe, and I sell the most illustrious properties in the world. Right? Like, I sell, like, Wallace Cunningham, Harry Geisner. I represent the police building. Like, I sell.

[B]

I love that building thing.

[A]

I sell properties that I am so obsessed with. So when you walk through. Rachel, if you walk through the police building with me, you'd be like, I'm buying this right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, because I. Because my enthusiasm is so infectious, and

[B]

your knowledge of what you're selling is probably.

[A]

Know where I am, and I know the environment. And, you know, it's not. I'm not like, I don't. It's. It's like everyone's like, the. Out of the deal. I'm like, if you stop talking like that, you will actually make money.

[B]

And.

[A]

And it's like the whole mining of the database. No, do not mine your database. Know your business. Know your business, and then people will come to you. So I don't sell real estate. I sell lifestyle because my clients are like. And you know, it's funny because that you said, like, you're pretty, and I. That's such a nice compliment, but women love me. They're like, where'd you get your jacket? Where'd you get your hair done? Who does your nails? Like, who does your Botox? Like, what shoes are those? Like, they Just want all the stuff that I. Yeah. Where do you live? In the Hamptons. Where do you like to go to eat? And they just want all the intel. So I am selling my lifestyle to the women. And then the men are like, my wife's so happy. They get to Kelly's, giving me their new best friend. We're moving in.

[B]

Right. So do you think it helped you, though, from being on TV and people knowing you? Do you think you got more phone calls than the average person because they wanted to meet you? Or you think it didn't have anything to do with it?

[A]

You know, it's bittersweet because on the one hand, I meet a lot of people from that, but on the other hand, people just want to be. They want to, like, housewife. I'm like, this is not a verb. I actually am making money right now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's part of my life. That's just, you know, one of the hats that I wear. But my love of all loves is I love beautiful things. I'm the ultimate hedonist. I love beautiful things. And I will find the most beautiful. Whatever you want, want. I will find you the best of the best. Like, I love that everyone else can be like, you know, oh, I sold, you know, you know, five hundred thousand dollar whatever. I'm like, that is so great for you. And you should continue to join that. That is not my business. My business is ultra high net worth. The best of the best. I love it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Love it.

[B]

And do you do, like, interior decorating with it, too? I mean, you seem to have such a little knack for that. I saw what you were doing in Florida.

[A]

I mean, I don't. I mean, I've learned a lot from my life, and so I just plug and play. But I wouldn't say I'm an interior decker. I know the best of the best. So if you are looking for something, whatever it is, that's the other thing too, is I'm like, such a vessel for the best of the best. So if it's like, you're looking for an iconic shoe, I know that person. If you're looking for an iconic home, I know that person. If you're looking for an iconic yacht, I know that person. If you want the coolest new car, I know that person. Like, I just know a lot of people. We're very similar in that way where we just know the best of the best and they like working with us. And it's easy.

[B]

Yeah. Wait.

[A]

There's no drama and there's no sensationalism. And there's no craziness. Yeah.

[B]

You brought up before something that when I was looking at your Instagram, I was like, I need to fucking ask her this. You always were the best, simple bathing suits. What are they?

[A]

Melissa Odiposh.

[B]

She's the best. Yeah. Okay. All right. Good to know. Because you always have the tie side the little triangle, and it looks amazing on you. And I can never find these. So now you know what the thing

[A]

is, too, is, like, that's not like, another thing. Like, when you're looking for a bathing suit, like, you have to wear the right bathing suit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't just walk in and put it. Put a bikini on. How many women do you see walk around the bathroom? And I wrote the bikini book, so I know a lot about bathing suits. You like, I. I'll look on the beach. And I'm just like, why is that. Why is that triangle so big on that girl? Like, she needs a smaller size.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

I'm like, why doesn't she, you know, pull that up so we can show. See more of that butt.

[B]

See, this is business for you. I feel.

[A]

I think. I don't think, like, oh, my God, she's hotter than me. I'm like, she's not hot enough. Yeah.

[B]

I think that people should be hiring you as a consultant. A personal consultant to come in, stand there naked in front of you and be like, what do I do? Here's where I live. Fix it. I need a man. Introduce me. Like, you're good at that. I feel like this. This. If all else fails and you can't be a real estate agent anymore, this is what you gotta do. Because this.

[A]

Oh, my God. Well, that's. That is what I do all day long. Like, it is my job.

[B]

Except for gifts.

[A]

I sell them. I sell them where they want to live, and then I sell them how to.

[B]

I love that. I love.

[A]

You know, it's interesting what you said about finding a man like that is. That is, like, the most difficult thing I can.

[B]

I agree with you. Yeah. Let's talk about love.

[A]

Most difficult thing.

[B]

Okay, so you have a podcast, and you talk about relationships in a lot of it, you talk about relationships on your Instagram. You're. You're a relationship girl. We all know from the news. A couple years ago now, at this point, a year, year and a half, you ended an engagement. I'm sorry to hear that. Can you talk a little bit about it? Because I know that you've made it public that the prenup was a big Part of why it didn't happen. I don't know if you know this about me. I just got married on New Year's Eve. Yeah, it was awesome. Because I've been waiting for 51 years to find the right person. And you don't realize who it is until you're really with them. Because. Because beyond that, it's like, there's a lot of anxiety. You think you have a type. You think this. You think that when you finally find the right person, it's great. The one issue that took us eight months was the prenup. And it is very important, and I love that you talk about it, because people need to be more savvy about the prenup, and it is absolutely important. So just tell me your experience, if you don't mind.

[A]

No, no. I'm the daughter of a lawyer, and I think that the prenup, you know, acts in two ways. Number one, I think that it kind of solidifies the future of your. How you're going to. How you're. How either one of you are going to live your life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So whether that. If you're. If you unfortunately something happens to you, or unfortunately something happens to the other person, like, how that is going to. How that's going to solidify that. And I think that's. I think to me, that's probably one of the most important things, because if you have children and it's your second chapter, if you have children, like, protecting other people, like, it's just like, the world is so up, and people need to protect other people. They need to really start doing that. And, you know, as a single mother, like, I've been protecting my girls all their lives, and I will continue to do that. And I just was like. Like, you know, I make money. You make money. I probably will make more money. You know, I have a little money, and I'm just not gonna give it to you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In case something happens. Because if. If I died, he would have gotten. So he would have gotten my daughter's money. And I just was like, this is not gonna happen.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not gonna happen.

[B]

And he was not willing to let that go. He was dying on that bridge or.

[A]

And I had a great lawyer who, you know, she's a. She's a fantastic lawyer. Her name is Marilyn Chintz, and I love Marilyn.

[B]

She did the show. And by the way, I use. Because I'm in Florida, she found me my lawyer, so that's who I used.

[A]

Yeah, she's fantastic. And actually, I found her through my My. A. A guy that I went to Trinity College with, my freshman seminar is my entertainment lawyer today.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And he was like, I want you to make sure that everything's okay. So Marilyn was just like, listen, Kelly, she's like, like, you've been through a lot. You've been, like, providing for everyone. Like, come on. Like, just don't. Like, just be careful. Right? So I gave it to him, you know, whatever. And it's like, you know, he's not a bad person. He's not a bad person. He's just not the right person for me.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So, you know, as sad as I am that we couldn't make that work, I am happy that I protected myself and my family, of course.

[B]

And was there a conversation that you guys would remain dating and just not get married or that anything I said

[A]

that, I said, we can go through the whole thing and we just don't have to get married. And he was like, no, I just was like, I can't do this. I just can't do this. If you're not gonna make sure that I'm safe, I can't do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just can't. And it's interesting because before him, and he's his mom, I was in love with his mom. You know, both my parents were deceased. I was in love with his mother. In love with her. She was just the most beautiful human. And, you know, he was such a n. I just was like, but it doesn't matter how nice you are. I have to protect myself. And I've just been through too much, Rachel, to be like, let me just try something nice.

[B]

Right? And it's not a time to, like, trust that in the moment, later it's gonna work itself out. Because God forbid something does happen and you do decide to get a divorce or he does die or you do die. People are not in the right frame of mind to be kind and be nice. Right?

[A]

I already got divorced.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

I already. I already. You know, I left SHIELD and then I introduced him to my best friend. I was like, okay, I'm gonna leave you, and here's your new girlfriend, and you guys are gonna be great, and she's fantastic, and you're fantastic, and everyone's gonna be great and over there. And then I am going to take care of my children. My father is going to now nurture my children, and we are going to raise these kids in a different way. And that's what I did. And I just was like, I. I want. Honestly, I just want someone that, like, just Genuinely loves Kelly Coloren from Rockford, Illinois. Like,

[B]

I hear you.

[A]

Is that too much to ask for?

[B]

No, but it's very hard because people see you before they see you. Do you know what I mean? And you, obviously, there's plenty of people, I'm sure, that have gotten that side of you, but they have to get over all the stuff that they get to see with you, which is all good stuff too. But I mean, there's more to you than that, right? Your kids, you as a mom, all the things you've done, the hard work you've done. And you don't need someone to just want you on their arm. You want someone who you want to sit with on the couch and watch IG network with or whatever the things are that you like, right? Or, and, and things that are important to you and as opposed to show you off. And so I think, I mean, do

[A]

you know how many times I tell a guy I'm not a show pony?

[B]

Yeah, I'm, I can.

[A]

And what's interesting is that, like, recently I've noticed that, like, you know, when I was in Florida, I went on a couple of dates with some guys and I just was like, from day was like, just want you to know I'm only here for two months. I'm filming a show. I'm here for two months. Rachel, you would have thought that I was telling them that I was madly in love with them and I wanted to get married to them. Like, the fact that I was like, I am not available. They went so nuts to the point where I was like, this is. You're, you're, you're, you're. I'm filming a show. Like, you need to get off.

[B]

Like, wow. Wow. Well, do you think it was because they loved the fame?

[A]

No, I think they loved the distance. I think they loved that I was unavailable.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

They were just like, she's not available. I want her.

[B]

So now how does someone like you meet men? Like, are you on Bumble?

[A]

I mean, I was on Hinge for a little bit. That's how I met my ex fiance. My assistant was like, I'm putting you on Hinge and you're going to meet a Jewish guy. And he made my age 10 years younger, which was actually funny but hideous.

[B]

You read is so much younger than your age. So, I mean, I think it's fine.

[A]

Thank you. Well, thank you. But I mean, I am 57 or now I'm 58. Right. Like, how old am I? But I just was like, okay, that was fine. But you Know, it's, it's so, you know, obviously like I've been on Raya forever. Like when it first started out, they were just like, just go on and say hi to people. I was like, okay. I've never really met anyone on like real dating apps that were like real. Right. I mean, that's always been some kind of issue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I go out with them, there's always an issue. There's always something.

[B]

Right. So how did you meet these guys in Florida? Just by being out.

[A]

Oh, one guy just was at dinner and he just came up to me. Don't you love when I left wine? I was like, sure.

[B]

I love when they have the self esteem to do that because that rarely happens, don't you think?

[A]

Rarely, yeah. But I'm a very like, like bubbly, friendly. I mean, I walk into a room, if you, if you walked into a room with me, I'm like, how are you? Nice to see you. Oh my God, how are you? And I genuinely mean it. I'm not just saying hi to people to shoot the sugs. I'm like, hi, how are you?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so I think I'm just very approachable in that way. And so the people are like, oh. And then they're like, you're not all that. You're going to be 60 and alone. I'm going to be like, I know some hot six year olds. Let me name some.

[B]

Exactly. I mean, I get it. My husband is turning 59 in a week and I think he's hot and I feel lucky to have him. So I know that there are a lot of men out there that are great men that are looking for great women. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

It's very hard to find them. I spent many years looking and that to me ended up being the problem. Right. Like, when you're least expecting it, you're gonna find someone or someone that is a friend that you. You don't even like, think that that's an option. And then all of a sudden, you look at them one day and you're like, oh my God, I love this person. I don't want to be without them. And that becomes the thing. It's like not who you want to be with, but like who you can't live without. And to me, that's what got me.

[A]

Okay, so I'm gonna tell you a little secret.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Cause even though we're on a podcast, I'm like, I'm just loving this moment with you. You're so fantastic. I love You.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So I broke up with this. I was dating this really, really nice guy who, like, I was just crazy about. About. And I broke up with him in December because I was going on the show. And so for some reason on my TikTok, the algorithm changed, and it was like, all these psychics, like, you know, he's going to come back. You're so great. Good things are happening to you. And so I became. I have. I am obsessed from, like, let's say I'm going to say January 1st to maybe me. I listen to these psychics f. Like, a couple times a day. And what I'm listening to is not, like, their affirmative. You know, what they're. You know, whatever it is, like, what's going to happen. I'm listening to these positive affirmations from them, and it has really, really, really changed me so much because instead of being like, oh, my God, like, am I going to meet a guy? And even on my podcast, like, I mean, that's what I talk about. I talk about part two. I talk to people about their second chapters all day long.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I was like, I just don't want to be, you know, the cobbler with the bad shoes. And I'm just like, if I'm learning from all these people, I want to keep the positivity. And so I literally listened to, like, a person's gonna come into your life. You're gonna be so great.

[B]

So where are we at with this? So have you. But are you dating someone now? Can you talk about that?

[A]

I mean, I'm going on dates, but I just moved back to New York. I mean, I sold my apartment in the apartment I was living in in New York, moved, put everything in storage, moved to Florida, and then I came back four days ago and I moved into another apartment. Oh, wow. And so it's been a lot. So I'm just kind of, like, in this kind of state of emergency, But I don't. I feel good.

[B]

Good. Okay. So no big love affairs going on at the moment, but you're open to.

[A]

To it, right? I did have to cut the guys off in Florida, the ones that were like, I love you, I hate you, I love you, I hate you. I'm like, right? And everyone at Florida is like, you're. You're the best thing. You're gonna be old. I'm like, which one is it? Can you just tell me which? Cause I just. This would, like, just tell me which one it is. So. I know.

[B]

Listen. It's just as hard to find A good woman down here. The women here are, let's just say, difficult, as you, I'm sure, saw. There's not a lot going on. There's. I mean, there seems like a lot of competition, looks wise. Cause there's a lot of young girls, beautiful girls. But when you really get down to it, there's not a lot of competition. So, you know. All right, wait. I do want to ask you a question about real estate that I just thought of because there's so many real estate shows out there.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I want your opinion on them. Like, I know the Altman brothers very well. I actually met Matt. I don't talk about this often. I met Matt Altman. He wrote me on Facebook and we started dating, like, over the phone. Like, I lived in New York and he lived in LA or whatever.

[A]

I love him.

[B]

Flew out to meet him. His personality, I will say, is one of the best. Like, it made him the most handsome guy ever. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Love him.

[B]

He is.

[A]

I mean, we have a very love hate relationship because he's like, you're not all that. I'm like. He goes, you're not a supermodel. I'm like, I'm a reality star.

[B]

Right. Oh, God, I hate that he said that to you. What a jerk. But he. Anyway, so it's just funny. But because. And then, of course, I know Ryan and I know, you know, I know all these guys, but do you think that these are real? Are these real people in the real estate market, in your opinion?

[A]

Okay, so I'm gonna give you some tea. You ready? So Freddie and John have known them forever, like, way, way, way, way before I was even on television. And I love them. And I always loved Frederick. I just loved his personality. And I thought that he's very warm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And John is amazing. Brian Terhant went on a date with me on Housewives.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's how we got into television with, like, reality.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Steve Gold. I put him on TV as well. I called Andy and I was like, this guy is hot. Like, you have to work. You have to work with him. And he's great. I'm not saying that I'm responsible for them, but I am. You know, I was part of their beginning parts of their reality lives. Yeah. I, you know, I've been on a couple of the shows in real estate, and I think one of the biggest problems with these shows is that, number one, you can't. You don't have no properties, and people don't want their properties on the market. On the, on the shows. And number two, real buyers don't want to be on the show. So that's like, okay, so what are you going to do? Have real estate brokers fighting about real estate brokers?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, again, like, I think of real estate in such a different way. I mean, I think of real estate as the ultimate luxury and the genesis of your generational wealth. I think of buying a property, your first property where you put 10% down of whatever that is. That is your first step to creating a future for yourself and for your family. It is the most powerful thing you can do. So I think of it, I have such an emotional and such a protective and such a hugely vast difference different perspective on real estate. Like, I don't think of it like we told about before. It was like the land of the bad shoes. Like, I don't think of it like anyone else does. I think of it as the genesis of generational wealth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how you're going to build that and provide and protect for your family because you move to Florida, no one can take anything from you.

[B]

Right. That's very true. But like how selling that way, I

[A]

don't see it as like throwing, you know, I'm always like, guys, I don't jump out in pools. Okay. I was a model. Yes. I wear bathing suits. I do, I do wear bathing suits. Yes. And I do go to the beach. Correct. But I don't think of real estate as like sensationalistic. I'm very, I'm very, very specific. I'm super buttoned up. My, my partner and I are like, we do it right the first time. There's no mistakes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have the best lawyers. Like, I just don't fool around. Like, if I'm going to do the. I do these big deals because I'm super serious.

[B]

Yeah. Just because I have a good time. It's not reality tv. Like, do you ever watch Selling Sunset?

[A]

Because you and I are having drinks on a Tuesday and like dancing does not mean that I am not wildly buttoned up.

[B]

Right. You know what I mean? No, I love that. But you know how Selling Sunset became so popular because it became so over the top and the girls are so pretty and they're dressing a certain way and it's ultra high net worth stuff. Do you, do you watch it and do you think that's reality or that's all?

[A]

I mean, first of all, no one, I mean, I represent 240 Central street and I'm their broker specialist. So if you come into. It's like the problem with me is that all these buildings I represent, I am the gatekeeper.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

So, like, you come into me and you're like, in a hot pink dress dress. I'm going to be like, we have nothing else available.

[B]

Right. And we have nothing else in common. Yeah. Right.

[A]

And we're never going to see each other again. Right.

[B]

I got it.

[A]

I just. I'm not going to do it. Like, I'm not. Like, if you don't have, you know, you don't have proof of funds and your client isn't real, and you don't come, like, prepared and ready to go. And by the way, I'm not. This isn't Disney World, and I'm not your tour guide. You know, you have to be responsible for your client, and I'm responsible for my client. I need you to be professional.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, I love it. I think it's so my. My. To answer the question, I want people to be successful and I want them to have a good time. Just don't come in my properties.

[B]

Right, right. Exactly. Okay. All right. I can't let a conversation with you go without asking about your dynamic with Bethenny Frankel, because obviously that was such a big moment in your past, and she is so vocal and always out there every day, posting about her thoughts. You were about talking, Talking about earlier about. Just because you had a platform doesn't mean you should be posting your thoughts every day. What is your current state of your relationship with her and what do you think of how she's turned out? Like, the stuff she's doing now?

[A]

You know, a lot of people ask me this question. I really should be more educated and I should be more proficient on what she's doing. I really don't know that much. I mean, I hear some little things from people. Originally when we met, you know, she was, you know, a girl that wanted to be someone great, and she thought that I was great. And instead of just being like, hey, my name's Bethany. What's yours? She was like, I'm gonna go after you. And I'm like, go after who? Yeah, who are you going after? I'm confused. I was like, I don't understand. I don't understand who you are, and I understand what you want from me.

[B]

So it's almost like she didn't feel like there was space for both of you to be great and both of you to be liked.

[A]

Right. I think that she was intimidated that I had a very, like, easygoing way. You know, she comes from a Good family. I come from a good family. She has a great education. I have a graduation education. She comes from money. I come from some money. You know, it's like we are very similar people. Like, she had a great upbringing. I had a great up ringing. Like, she has a lot of friends. I have a lot of friends. Like, it's not that much of a disconnect. But I. I affected her narrative. I. I was the person that I. I made her narrative, like, unhinged. And the only person that was unhinged was her. Like, I was just like, do you. Like, right. I'm over here eating candy. You just enjoy yourself.

[B]

So I guess you guys don't speak anymore.

[A]

Well, it's not that. We just don't need to. There's no. There's no. Like, I mean, we filmed. We didn't even film that many scenes together. It's not like we were together every single day. It's not like, you know, like, on golden. We were together like for two months. I mean, I think all in all, we filmed maybe, like, maybe seven or eight scenes together. Like, we didn't really interact that much together. But, you know, she's one of those kind of things. It's like, you know, he who barks the loudest gets the bone. And I'm just like, keep on barking. Like I'm over here, like, drinking coffee. Like, you're good.

[B]

Right, Right. All right, in closing, let's just.

[A]

But I wish her. I wish her and I win. And anyone who wants to be my nemesis, I wish you all the best. Like, I could not. I just want everyone to do well. And like, there's. There is so much room in this world for success. Yeah. And I just feel like trying to break someone down to make you better is so dated. And it doesn't land well anymore. It's just like, if you're not a part of a community and you're not creating a community, like, you should really put social down. Like, just, you know, talk to your cat. I don't know.

[B]

I love that you just said that. It's so true. And like, as you get older, you realize, what do you want to fight like that for? It's just so, you know, there's no need for it. And it's gross. It's gross if you behave that way. You clearly don't want to be around people that act that way, so. And you choose your community. Like, my community is. Listen, I know a lot of people, we talked about this before, but. But my community is very small. I keep it that way on purpose. And I don't like those interactions at all. And now it's very easy for me to just pick myself up and be like, I don't want to be around this, and I'm good in the area that I want to be in. You know, I don't need that interaction.

[A]

So, I mean, I guess, too. I guess just to, like, hop on that, you know, I. In my business, because I do work in the transaction business, there's so much at stake. And so if. If we're talking, if I'm representing you and I'm trying to figure out how to put, you know, an extra $500,000 in your pocket, I will go. I will be an animal to do that for you. But when it comes to my personal life, if you're trying to attack me, like, I have. I just. I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about. And by the way, I have such selective hearing from, like, listening to people scream and yell at me all day long. I'm like, if it is not like you're the nicest person on the planet, I want to, like, hang out with you and eat Chinese food. I'm not listening to you.

[B]

Right. I love that. That's a good point. A lot of people only see the negative, you know, and it's good. It's. That's a good piece of advice. Listen to the positive and just drown out the rest of it.

[A]

Right? Like, just be positive and have a good time.

[B]

What do you think? My final question. What do you think people finally understand about you today that they didn't 15 years ago or whenever you started doing the show?

[A]

I think that people are just so confused why. And I think that is the most amazing thing ever.

[B]

I love that. So you've made yourself complicated, even though you're not.

[A]

I don't want them to know who I really am. I just want them to know that if I'm working for you in business, business, I am an absolute animal. And if I am your friend, I will do everything to protect you and to be a great friend to you. Like, that's all. But I mean, everything else. I mean, I like it. The people are confused. Well, you're like this. Okay, tell me more about me.

[B]

Right, Right. Oh, my God.

[A]

It's like you can't fight it. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. It's so. It's so true. What's on your bucket list? Is there anything you want to do in. In the future that you is way out there that you're like, one day. One day.

[A]

I mean, I don't really think like that. I just, like, I want to go to Couture. I want to go sit and, like, watch my beautiful friends make the most beautiful clothes in the world. It's not a bucket list, but it's just like a tomorrow thing. Can't wait to see my kids, have. Get married and have children. Like, I can't wait for that.

[B]

How old are they now?

[A]

They're 25 and 27.

[B]

Okay. Is anyone.

[A]

Wait for that.

[B]

Is anyone close to getting married or anything?

[A]

They'll be. They're just, you know, they're such great girls. You would love them. They're just so smart and cute and feisty and.

[B]

And do you get to see them all the time?

[A]

All the time, yeah. They live really close to me and we spend a lot of time together, so just that. But that's really just like, for me personally, I just want to go to Couture and I just want to dream. Like, I'm a dreamer. I just want to dream and just, like, look at beautiful things. I don't need to do any. I mean, I'm already doing. Not worried about what I'm working on. I just want to dream bigger and then, you know, to see what happens in my life.

[B]

And is marriage on your list of things that you are dying to do in your future or you'll be okay if that doesn't happen?

[A]

You know, I used to think it was. I used to think it was like, Rachel, like, went after I got divorced from my ex husband because I was. Was like, you are amazing at what you do, but I want a family for my family, and I always wanted a family for my family, and I just never found it. And so now I'm just kind of like, what? I just want, like a. I just want a partner. I want, like, a partner in crime. I just want someone who wants to, like, dream big like me. I am a dreamer. I cannot tell you. I mean, I'm pragmatic.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

But I'm a dreamer. I just want to, like, make things better and.

[B]

Yeah, just.

[A]

I don't know. I just am a big dreamer.

[B]

My wish for you is that you find a witness to your life. Like, someone who can, like, be around, watch you do your thing. And then someone. I always love the idea, like, to go through life, you want someone at the end of the day to call and be like, okay, well, here's who I met at the bus stop. Not that I take the bus, but you know what I mean? Like, here's what I did and here's what I ate, and here's. Here's who I saw. Someone who can be a witness to what I see and feel. And I wish that for you. I think you're amazing. I'm so honored that I got to spend the last hour with you. I really hope the next time you're down here or I'm in New York, I'll text you, we'll get together, we'll have dinner. I would love that.

[A]

And I'm gonna tell Michael that we spoke and had so much fun, and I appreciate you so much. And it's like, it's just so interesting to talk to you about, you know, the lives that we're leading. And it just, like, it's okay to make mistakes. It really is. And make as many mistakes as you can, because if you don't make mistakes, you're never, ever gonna learn.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just gonna go through life being a.

[B]

Like, it's the only way to learn. It's the only way to get a little bit of tough skin so that you're not depending on others for your own happiness. And that, to me, is something I had to learn. I have to figure out the happiness with me.

[A]

Exactly. Yes.

[B]

All right. Thank you. Foreign. Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yukatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five star rating and review. You can support the show by joining our [e-mail] misunderstood with Rachel Ukitel. Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out? Email us at infomisundust. Understood. [e-mail] that's spelled M I S S. Understood. Thank you so much. And I'll see you next.