← Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
From Autistic Outcast to Prime Time Anchor & The Father Who Made It Happen | Leland Vittert
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- [00:01]
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Ali Jackson
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- [01:28]
Rachel Yucatel
On Misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel.
- [01:30]
Leland Vittert
The umbilical cord was tied in a knot and around my neck. So had I been born naturally, I would have been dead. When I was about eight years old, my parents were told they needed to have me evaluated. So the woman said to my parents, it's very difficult to understand what's going on inside his head. A learning disability is a 20 point spread. I had a 70 point spread. And the doctor goes, oh my God, this is a lucky baby. The luckiest baby. So born lucky is the book. It's my story of growing up with autism and my dad quitting his job to adapt me to the world rather than the world to me.
- [02:06]
Rachel Yucatel
You've talked about moments where you're holding onto your beliefs, and it carried professional consequences. Could you talk a little bit about that?
- [02:12]
Leland Vittert
I've had confrontational interviews with Democrats, ma'. Am. I only got about 30 seconds. Let me just try to understand something. Had conversational interviews with Republicans.
- [02:19]
Rachel Yucatel
What do you want to have happen to the votes?
- [02:21]
Leland Vittert
And we now know at that moment, Lachlan Murdoch sent an email to Jay Wallace and Suzanne Scott, who the head of Fox News, and said, leland's done feeling pretty low and feeling pretty sorry for myself. And I was sitting there one night talking to my dad, and he looks at me and goes, you're feeling pretty sorry for yourself, aren't you? And I said, I am. And he goes, all right. He goes, I get it. He goes, but you felt pretty sorry for yourself in eighth grade and you got up every morning. You went back to school. You can do this.
- [02:52]
Rachel Yucatel
Welcome back to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yukatel. You probably know Leland Vitart from television as a seasoned journalist, anchor and national correspondent on News Nation now, where he brings clarity to the chaos of the news cycle with sharp instincts and a steady voice. But what you don't know, what few people have known until recently, is the story that shaped the man that you see on your screen. Leland has a new book out this year called Born A Dedicated A Grateful Son and My Journey with Autism. And that title doesn't just hint a compelling read, it reveals a life few could have predicted. In Born Lucky, Leland opens the door on a childhood marked by silence, isolation, misunderstanding, and relentless bullying. Before anyone ever whispered the words autism or being on the spectrum, he didn't speak until he was three. Teachers didn't see a future. They saw weird. The world around him often didn't know what to make of him. But what did know him was one man, his father. A dad who quit his job, who became his coach, his teacher, his guardian against a world that barely understood him. A father who lived by a set of principles that weren't in any textbook but would eventually teach a boy how to look his challenges in the eye and thrive anyway. This is a book about what it was like living with autism. Yes, but it's also what every parent and every child who's ever felt misunderstood desperately needs to hear. That there's hope, that there's a path forward. And your diagnosis does not define your destiny. Today, you're going to hear a story of how a little boy who was written off became a man who speaks four millions and why one father's devotion still sounds like a love letter decades later. Whelan, thank you so much for joining me today on Misunderstood. How are you?
- [05:04]
Leland Vittert
Oh, fantastic. It's great.
- [05:07]
Rachel Yucatel
So I received your book a couple days ago, and I've started reading it. I haven't been able to get through it yet. I will finish it. But I want to tell you in reading this, you know, I don't have autism. I don't know anyone that has autism. And I want to say that as a parent and as, I guess, a human that has felt misunderstood for most of my life, I was in tears very quickly in reading this. Cause it resonated with me and I felt like, I totally get this person I'm meeting you now. But as I was reading it, I was like, I totally understand. I understand those feelings, everything you were saying. And so I just want to tell you that right from the beginning because I think it's so interesting that it's a book about you and your relationship with your father and growing up different, autism. But it's like a book for everyone to read because it's such a universal feeling, and that comes across really well.
- [05:59]
Leland Vittert
Thank you. The book ends pretty well, right? I won't spoil it for anybody, but I'm now happily married and have a wonderful wife and a great job. And it's proof, as we like to say, of what great parenting can do. So Born Lucky is the book. It's my story of growing up with autism and my dad quitting his job to adapt to the world rather than the world to me. And I think, Rachel, what you picked up on is that it goes way beyond autism. Right. This is hope for every parent of a kid having a hard time. Doesn't matter why. Doesn't matter if it's ADHD or anxiety or bullying or a physical issue or just not understanding how to grow up. This is hope for every parent of a kid having a hard time about really what they can do and how the experts aren't always right.
- [06:48]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah, exactly. So Born Lucky. It's a great name. Sounds metaphorical. But when you get into it, you quickly realize that it has something to do with your doctor and a nickname that you were given. Can you share that story? I thought it was so great.
- [07:01]
Leland Vittert
Sure. So 1982. My mother is 35. It's her first pregnancy. And that was high risk at the time. So her doctor sees on the ultrasound before sophisticated ultrasounds, that I was both upside down and that I was upside down. So she comes out of the appointment, that last appointment before she gave birth, to see my dad. My dad was a business guy at the time. Wasn't really involved in his wife being pregnant, and says to my dad, you know, I'm really concerned about this. And the doctor thinks I should get a C section. At the time, having a natural birth was very much in vogue, and there was all this research. The doctors were having C sections because it was more convenient on and on. And my mom and dad go back and forth, and my mom finally decides, you know, if I'm not going to take my doctor's advice, I should find a new doctor. But if I'm going to have this doctor, I should take his advice. So I'm being born via C section in the hospital, and there's that, like, blue curtain separating from where I'm being born from my mom and dad. And my dad's holding my mom's hand, and everything's going fine. And then all of a sudden, from the other side of the blue curtain, my parents hear, oh, my God. Not what you want to hear. Oh, my God. Really? Not what you want to hear in an operating room, oh, my God, this is a lucky baby. And my mom's hand, just like vice, clenches on my dad's, and my dad sticks his head around and goes, everything okay? And the doctor goes, give us a second. Everything's fine. And they go like, oh, my God, this is a lucky baby. The luckiest baby. And what had happened was, is that the umbilical cord was tied in a knot and around my neck. So had I been born naturally, I would have been dead or had severe cerebral palsy. So the next day, the doctor who delivered me came up to the room that my mom and I were in, and there was one of those little whiteboards outside the room that said, like, you know, Leland Vinart, how much I weighed when I pooped, whatever else it was. And he crossed out Leland, and he wrote, call him lucky. So from when I was a little boy, I introduced myself as Lucky Vittert. And I actually came up with the title of the book sort of at the very beginning of just writing a few words about my dad. And the reason I did is I wanted it to be so clear of how lucky I felt in this age of victimhood and age of diagnosis and age that everybody has got a problem and needs to be met where they are and celebrated and woe is me. I really wanted to sort of acknowledge from the very beginning what I believe to be true is just how lucky I am in so many ways.
- [09:39]
Rachel Yucatel
I love that. That's such a great story. So can you, like, you start the book off Talking about how different you were, how different you came across to other people, and, you know, if you can tell us a little bit about what your. I don't want to call symptoms, but, like, what you. How you were and how others perceived you in your childhood and what that was like. Because I think there are so many conversations about autism and Asperger's and all these things on the spectrum, and people aren't sure about what symptoms are that are real, that are fake. You know, all that stuff.
- [10:10]
Leland Vittert
Yeah, no, I think the best way it was described once, and I don't remember if it's Autism Speaks or Autism Society. Part of the way I grew up is my parents never told me that I was diagnosed with anything. They never wanted me to define myself as a diagnosis. They never wanted anyone else to define me by it. They never wanted me to have an excuse. But later on, I've learned in one of these groups says something along the lines of, if you've met one child with autism, you've met one child with autism. So it's different for everybody. I can tell you what it was like for me. When I was about eight years old, my parents were told they needed to have me evaluated, which is the worst thing any parent can hear, right? So they take me one of those medical office buildings. Linoleum floors, bad lighting, stale coffee, old magazines. They sit there for a couple of hours before cell phones, so they're pretty nervous. And the woman comes back and she says, boy, your boy's got a lot of problems. Big behavioral issues. I hadn't been invited to a play date or a birthday party for a long time at that point. But if somebody touched me in a classroom or in a lunch line or in a movie line or sort of wherever I was, I'd turn around and slug them. So I couldn't play on the playground. I really had no ability to interact with kids my own age. And I was a fat little kid. So if I slugged somebody at it was impactful. I had big sensory issues. So if I was wearing socks I didn't like that were on my calves or whatever I didn't like, I would melt down. Same with a jacket. The day would just sort of be over because I would lose it. And then what they discovered in this test was I had huge learning disabilities. So an IQ test is two halves of these tests and your scores are averaged together.
- [11:52]
Rachel Yucatel
Right.
- [11:53]
Leland Vittert
A learning disability is a 20 point spread. I had a 70 point spread. So the woman said to my parents, this was the biggest spread. They'd ever seen. And in her words, it's very difficult to understand what's going on inside his head, meaning my head. Now, my wife would tell you it's still very difficult to understand what's going on inside my head.
- [12:13]
Rachel Yucatel
I think all women say that about men. Don't worry about that.
- [12:17]
Leland Vittert
They may be right. So I've only been married for six months. I'm learning. But the woman said, it's very difficult to understand what's going on inside his head. And my dad goes, okay, what do we do? Any father would ask that. She goes, well, there's not much you can do. You kind of have to meet him where he is. And where I was was a disaster, a total disaster. So that is where he decided he was going to have to try to adapt me to the world rather than the world to me.
- [12:51]
Rachel Yucatel
Right. And not only that, I mean, you talk about in your book that you were born cross eyed, you didn't speak until you were three. I mean, it's so interesting to look at you now, this handsome man who's in television and communicates as a, you know, a profession. And to think that you went through that. And that's what, you know, so many people do not understand about, you know, when you look at somebody today, you have no idea when they, what they went through, whether it's that day or in their life. So it's fascinating to see that. But. So I want to talk about labels because you brought that up. I have a. I don't know how I feel about labels because I do have somebody in my family who was bipolar or something. And, and when she was in her teens, she was diagnosed as that she has spent the rest of her life acting that out. And to me I was like, what do you mean? She just has a big personality. She's great. Stop medicating her, stop telling her that because she's just going to act that out. And that is how her life turned out. It didn't turn out great at all. What is your thought on labels? Because you weren't told until you were in college. And I'm wondering, do you think that made a difference? Do you think that you would have acted out a different way?
- [14:02]
Leland Vittert
I don't know any other way to be other than who I am. Right. So people have asked me, well, what was it like growing up on the spectrum or what was it like dating on the spectrum? And I don't know, I don't know how or what's like being a journalist on that. I have no idea. Because I don't know what it's like to be anything different than me. What I can tell you is, is I think not allowing myself or not allowing me, I guess my parents did, to have a excuse or a crutch was really important. And I'll give you an example and that is that, you know, dealing with autism the same as dealing with, for example bipolar or anything else, it's a lifelong battle, right? And I've equated being autistic a little bit to being an alcoholic. It's something you have to work on every day and there's a discipline to it every day. So you think about that. And a couple of months ago I was playing golf with my father in law and we got teamed up, we're out west with this other, other older man, lovely round of golf at his club and we finished playing and I'm running late, I've got to be somewhere and I'm trying to stuff my golf bag into the travel bag. And so we're out by the cart barn, I'm wrestling with it and my father in law goes into the clubhouse to, I don't know, change his shoes or whatever. And the guy that we're playing with walks over and says, hey Leland. And he's sort of looking down at me and I'm down on the ground trying to put the bags into the travel bag or the clubs in the travel bag. And one of the classic sort of symptoms or whatever you want to call it, characteristics of autism is you become very task focused, just hyper task focused, got it. Which I did. And he kept saying, hey Leland. I go, uh huh. And I'm just putting the clubs in and wrestling with him and I couldn't help myself, I couldn't stop. And I could hear my father in My head of 8th grade Lucky Vittert or 8 year old Lucky Vitter saying okay, Lucky, you need to stop, you need to get up, you need to look Mr. McGillicuddy in the eye, you need to talk to him for a minute. Five minutes late is not going to change anything right now. Like you've got to sort of break out of how you are. I couldn't do it. I was so rude to this guy. Eventually he just walked away because I couldn't stop and talk to him. It sounds weird, but that's what was happening. I found his phone number afterwards and I wrote him a note just saying, I just want to apologize for being so phenomenally rude to you. I was late, didn't know what I was thinking. But just no Excuse. I'm very sorry. What I didn't follow up with was, oh, by the way, that's my autism, or I have autism, or by way of explanation, or don't blame me. Blame the autism.
- [16:47]
Ali Jackson
Yeah.
- [16:48]
Leland Vittert
Because my dad never let me do that. He never let me have extra time on tests. He never let me have behavior modification plans. Whatever it was, the standard was the standard. And I think that was a really powerful tool for me later on in life. I shouldn't say tool, but I think it was a great gift. And it was much harder on him because he had to deal with all the issues that went along with his son. Having these issues and not getting accommodations, but not ever being able to be labeled and not ever being able to use that label as an excuse has really been powerful for me.
- [17:23]
Rachel Yucatel
Well, it's one thing to what you're talking about, not use it as an excuse, but do you think it would have explained. Explain things to yourself a little bit earlier so you could say to yourself, okay, well, I'm not. This isn't strange. This isn't me being different and weird. It's like I have something going on, and I just have to figure out how to navigate it. Which you eventually did with your father. You learned and you were coached, but do you think it would have helped you to understand you better?
- [17:48]
Leland Vittert
Oh, I understood. I was pretty weird.
- [17:51]
Rachel Yucatel
Okay. Makes a lot of sense.
- [17:54]
Leland Vittert
And.
- [17:55]
Rachel Yucatel
But as you grew up, like, explain to me what it was like inside your head. Like, were you lonely? Were you?
- [18:01]
Leland Vittert
Oh, yeah, no, that part. Look, you know, kids inherently know what's happening, right? You know, I was in fifth grade. I'd been to two or three schools. My dad came over to this little grade school that I was going to, went up to the PE Fields because he knew I was in PE and asked the PE Teacher, hey, how's Lucky doing? And the guy goes, oh, I think he's doing better this month. And my dad said, great, let's go find him. And this guy was a big guy. My dad knew him from football at a different. Different school. My dad was a great athlete. And the coach goes, I don't think that's a good idea. My dad goes, why not? Coach goes, well, kind of looking out over the. Over the playing fields, says I had to put him with the girls. And he goes, what? And the guy goes, yeah, I've put him with the girls for the past month because, you know, I had to protect them. The boys just bullied him too badly. So I, you know, same school, I got pulled out of that school later. Later on my fifth grade year, but same school. My sister was a kindergartner. And when we were writing Born Lucky, I asked her, what are your first memories of me? And she said, oh, that's easy. When you were in fifth grade, I was in kindergarten, you would walk down from your classroom, pick me up, and we'd walk across the PE fields to go home every day because it was a path at the end of the woods. And she said every day as we got to the woods, you would start crying every day. And I, your sister, would hold your hand. So, yeah, I mean, I knew what was going on. I knew in eighth grade when there was a teacher who didn't think that I was going to become Picasso. He was an art teacher. And we were there in art class. And I guess he didn't like a drawing I made or whatever, I don't know. And he said in front of the whole class, like 28th graders, hey, Vitter, if my dog was as ugly as you, I would shave its ass and make it walk backwards. And the whole class laughed. Everything else. So if you understand, if the teachers are doing that, what the kids are doing. So, yeah, I knew precisely what was happening. There was an emotional cruelty and isolation that exists. And the Born Lucky Story is my dad taking the hard road with me. Right. He chose to help me embrace the adversity and held my hand through it. So every night, you know, he'd spend a couple of hours putting me back together and taking that social and emotional toll on him off of me. And I would either yell or I would cry, or I would, you know, talk about how unfair things were. And he'd listen late into the night. And I now know, because my mom told me when we interviewed her for the book, that dad often, after he would leave my room, I'd start homework or go to sleep, whatever. He would come downstairs in our living room by himself and sit there and cry himself. Late at night, at 12 o' clock in the morning, my mom would find him. So that Born Lucky story is really a parent choosing to embrace adversity with their child and help their child through the adversity rather than take the adversity away.
- [21:01]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah. What's interesting, too, about your book is that it's not just you writing the book. It's really. You talk so much about your father and what he did to get you through it. And what. I mean, it was just fascinating, the parts that I've read so far, and I will say I skipped to the End to read his. Was it called afterward? Is the thing he writes at the end his afterword.
- [21:22]
Leland Vittert
Yeah.
- [21:22]
Rachel Yucatel
Which that was what had me in tears, too, because it was so. First of all, I don't know if he's a writer, but it was so well written. And in a short, you know, whatever it was, words, 500 words, whatever it was he captured, that's the most beautiful tribute, not only to you, but to him, like, to what he went through. But it sounded like he was a man. He wasn't this, like, pussy guy that was like, I had to give up my job and I had this weird kid. I mean, he was. I closed the book and I started crying. I was like, wow, what a guy this was. Is. And so anyways, let's talk about your dad. So as we go through the book, we really see that your father has become this coach to you and coaches you through your difficulties. Can you explain some of, like, what he was teaching you? Because I think a lot of parents these days would go to a doctor and be like, what medication do I do? You know?
- [22:15]
Leland Vittert
Yeah, well, that is true. And a couple things. I'll let your listeners in on something that's not in the book. I think everyone who reads Born Lucky will agree that the afterword is the best part. Right. I had the unenviable task of filling 240 pages between George Will and my father, which is tough writing. But dad, as you read in the afterword, hates being called a hero. And he says, I just did what any parent would do. I just tried to help my boy. So the way that all came about is he really didn't want to do this book. He thought it could help people. And it has. And we've gotten hundreds of letters. It's just been phenomenal. But as we started writing it, every time we would. We would begin a story or talk about something, my dad would go, gee, you know, do we really want to say that? Do we really want to do this? On and on and on. And I'd say, you know, finally I said, dad, like, look, we can't just adjudicate every story. Either we tell the story or we don't. So what we're going to do is we're going to write it. You're going to be as candid as you can. I'll give you the manuscript, and if you don't like it, I will not turn it into HarperCollins. Fine. So Tuesday rolls around of due week of when the manuscript is due, of deadline week, and it's due on A Friday. So on Tuesday, I hand him the manuscript and I say, take a look. He reads it on Thursday, calls me, he goes, I don't know if I can do this. This is just too hard. It's too raw, it's too emotional. It's now exposing all these things we never told anybody about. He never told his story, his friends, obviously no teachers, counselors, therapists, nothing.
- [24:02]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah.
- [24:03]
Leland Vittert
And I said, all right, Dad. I said, how about this? If rather than told you there was no hope, the woman who diagnosed me had instead handed you a copy of Born Lucky and said, look, this isn't a prescription, it's not a cure. But this is just what one father did. This is a love story of a father and a son. What would you have done? He said, I would have read it every week because it would have given people hope. Well, I think that's your answer. And he said, okay, but I don't like that it makes me a hero. And you can't call me a hero. And it makes me seem like I'm a hero. I said, well, why don't you say that? He goes, what do you mean? I said, why don't you write the afterward? Just write. Just write how you feel right now. Just write what you're telling me. And he goes, why? I only did what every other father would do. I said, okay, write that. And he said, when do I have to give it to you? I said, well, it's Thursday at 10pm and this is due tomorrow at 9am so I'd say right now. And he goes, okay. And about an hour later he called me back and he dictated to me. He had written it down longhand. He dictated to me, what is the afterword of the book? As you point out, it's the best part. And he wrote it in about an hour. And I think in the edit we changed in that whole five or six hundred words, one comma or one word, something like that. And that's just how. What he felt, that was.
- [25:23]
Rachel Yucatel
What was your reaction when he read it to you?
- [25:25]
Leland Vittert
Oh, I started sobbing, of course. Yeah, I saw. I just. I lost it.
- [25:30]
Rachel Yucatel
Did you know he felt that way or had he ever communicated that to you?
- [25:35]
Leland Vittert
You know, it's something interesting. You know, my dad lost his dad at 16, right? And in Born Lucky we have the letter that was written to my dad that my dad got on the. The night of his father's death. It was a surprise. His older brother, about 10 year older brother came back to the house where my dad was living with his parents. And my dad was shaving, getting ready for a date on a Saturday, and his brother came in the room and said, our dad died, and drove down to the family construction company office, opened the safe in my grandfather's office, and pulled out this letter that had been written. And the letter talked about how a man is defined by his character. Not by his accolades or his achievements or his net worth or anything else, but defined by who he is as a man, as his character. And my dad's always tried to live up to that and always wondered if he made his dad proud. Right. It was always this unattainable benchmark that he felt my grandfather had set. I've never had to deal with that. I've always known my dad was proud of me because he's always told me that he's always been my best friend and the most loving and loyal and kind and generous father and friend anyone could have. So, yeah. Did I know he felt that way about me? Sure do. I still cry when I read Inborn Lucky. I did the narration for the audiobook and I read the letter that my father read that his grandfather wrote. I cried. I cried when I read the letter that my dad gave me before I went overseas for it. To be a foreign correspondent, you know, trying to. Trying to narrate that audio without. Without crying was. Was hard. But I think that's what the readers. I don't want to say demand. But I think the reason this book has resonated the way it has not. Not measured by sales, but measured by the number of letters I've gotten from families who now say, we're not alone, we feel hope, we feel like we have a chance. On and on and on is because it's been so emotionally raw.
- [27:51]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that part about your grandfather and the letter. And I. I read that, and it was so emotional to read it. And it's the through line throughout your book. I mean, that's. That's how you grew up. It's very obvious. And it was obvious that your father instilled that in you, too. You've talked about moments where you're holding onto your beliefs and it carried professional consequences. I know that that happened at the end of your FOX career. Could you talk a little bit about that?
- [28:21]
Leland Vittert
Sure. Yeah. No. TV news is an interesting dynamic. The one thing my dad didn't tell me when I was in eighth grade and seventh grade, ninth grade, whatever it was, having just the horrible time and the emotional, cruel cruelty, was that this is going to be great training for a Washington newsroom, right, because middle school is by far the best training for a Washington newsroom. But what what happened was I was at Fox and it was clear that I had. I had sort of been, I don't want to say pushed aside, but it was clear that I was no longer.
- [28:55]
Rachel Yucatel
The this episode is sponsored by Better Help. The new year doesn't require a new you, maybe just a less burdened you. I think a lot of us walk around carrying things we don't even realize we're holding onto. Fear, pressure, the need to be perfect. Doubt about whether we're doing enough or being enough. And sometimes what really helps is having an unbiased perspective. Someone whose role is to help you better understand your relationships, motivations and emotions so you can let go of what's weighing you down. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. They work with fully licensed therapists in the US who follow a strict professional code of conduct. BetterHelp also does the matching work for you. You answer a short questionnaire and they help connect you with someone who fits your needs. And if your first match isn't quite right, you can switch to another therapist anytime. With over 30,000 therapists and more than 5 million people served globally, BetterHelp has an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for live sessions. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com that's B E T T E R H E L P and thanks for listening to Misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel after the holidays.
- [30:06]
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- [32:15]
Leland Vittert
In terms of doing real journalism, the management had changed. The person who had hired me and championed me had left, been fired very wrongly. And I was still anchoring though on the weekends. And this was right after the 2020 election. Joe Biden had won, Trump had said it was stolen. And about two or three weeks after the election I was anchoring on a weekend during one of what they called Stop the Steal rallies. So it was big groups of people coming into the Washington to protest. And I had one of Trump's spokespeople on and I just sort of started asking basic journalistic questions about, you know, where is the evidence of this being stolen. And I think it's always sort of just insulted my sense of decency when people sit there and lie to your face just because of what my dad taught me. And so I kept pushing back and it got got pretty confrontational. I've had confrontational interviews with Democrats, I had confrontational interviews with Republicans. Just sort of what I think a journalist's job is. And we now know at that moment Lachlan Murdoch sent an email to Jay Wallace and Suzanne Scott, who the head of Fox News, and said Leland's done right? So I didn't know that at the time. I was told at the time you'll never anchor again. And so you think about what happened in that span. So that was the middle of November, middle of December. I was told I'll never anchor again. Middle of December, I ended a long term relationship that I'd been in. I've been dating a young woman for about eight years and we were living together, weren't engaged or married, but living together and ended that relationship. And so I had nowhere to live, no job, no significant other. And then early in January I got Covid and almost died of COVID So I was in the hospital for about a week. And I end up now in my parents house in Florida, literally just with a backpack on my back of my stuff. And FOX was still paying me, but I had no job and I feeling pretty low and feeling pretty sorry for myself. And I was sitting there one night talking to my dad. It was almost like I was back in eighth grade. And he looks at me and goes, you're feeling pretty sorry for yourself, aren't you? And I said, huh? I am. And he goes, all right. He goes, I get it. He goes, but you felt pretty sorry for yourself in eighth grade and you got up every morning, you went back to school and you can do this, you know, and, and it, it occurred to me that had I not had that really searing experience, had I not walked through hell before, I wouldn't know the way to get out of hell is to keep walking.
- [34:55]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah.
- [34:56]
Leland Vittert
And that is a really, really powerful gift that parents can give kids and so many don't.
- [35:03]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah. Wait, so what was that path out of there? Because did you think your, your TV career was over? Did. How did you get that next move?
- [35:11]
Leland Vittert
It's really interesting. As chance would have it, right about the time that the Fox situation was happening, I started talking to News Nation. News Nation wanted to launch. They wanted to see the world right versus wrong, not left versus right. Sean Compton, who is the president of the network, had the idea of creating a network with midwestern values. He's from the Midwest, I'm from the Midwest. And we sort of started talking and then kind of one thing led to another and by May I moved to Chicago to help effectively relaunch News Nation, which was great. It's been a great experience. And you think about what happened at Fox, which anyone would say was unfair, was wrong, was all these things, none of these great things would have happened. I would have never met my now wife because I met her on a blind date in Chicago the second day of work. And I would have never married the love of my life. And I never would have had this great new adventure. So, you know, good things happen out of really terrible adversity.
- [36:20]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah, I agree with that. I'm curious, because communication is what you do for a living, and you're so good at it. I think people listening and hearing this story are like, yeah, but how did he do that? How do you go from someone who has autism? I mean, isn't part of autism, like, the connection? It's hard to make connections with people. Like, you have to look at people. Even though we're on zoom, we have to look each other in the eye kind of, and be here. And you're just as present as anyone else. So how did you get there and when did you learn that? It was like, oh, I'm good at this, and I'm not trying hard. It just comes naturally. Or does it never come naturally?
- [36:59]
Leland Vittert
Well, it's an everyday battle. It's a minute by minute battle. Right. It's a learned skill. And I'll back up this. And this also isn't in the book. So for your listeners and viewers, a little behind the scenes of Born Lucky. The reason this whole thing happened was exactly what you're talking about, Rachel, and you're so perceptive to pick up on it. I had gotten the job at News Nation, and I was starting to be a primetime anchor versus being a anchor, you know, weekend anchor and reporter. And I was working with this talent coach, and she kept talking to me about that emotional connection with people and how to match the emotional connection of what they call the two box. So if your producer puts it up where we're both next to each other, they call that the two box and how to match the emotional energy of the person you're interviewing. So she keeps talking to me about it session after session after session. And she finally sort of was like, do you understand what I'm saying? Right, Yeah, I get it. I'm working on it. I'm working on it. She goes, is it hard for you? I said, it's really hard for me. She said, well, why? And I said, well? I said, I'm autistic. Silence for like, 30 seconds. And she goes, what did you say? And I said, well, I'm autistic. She goes, you have autism. I said, huh? She goes, I didn't know that. I said, well, nobody knows that. I said, I've never told anybody. She was. You never told your bosses? I said, no. Well, I mean, she sort of blew her mind.
- [38:35]
Rachel Yucatel
Right, right.
- [38:37]
Leland Vittert
And she goes, what do you, like, what is this? What is this. What are you talking about? And I said, well, this is sort of the Born Lucky story, right? I'm diagnosed when I was 8 years old. My parents told nobody. My dad tried to adapt me to the world, world on and on and on. And she goes, I don't believe this. Have you ever written anything about it? I said, well, actually I wrote about 700 words that I planned at some point to publish as like an op ed, like a Father's Day op ed to thank my dad. It was actually titled Born Lucky. I literally wrote it one night after a few too many glasses of wine and never looked at it again. And she goes, can I read it? And I said, sure. So I sent it to her and she then sent it around to people unbeknownst to me. And somebody read it and said, I really want to turn this into a book. But you very long answer to the sort of. The understanding of the human equation that I have is a learned skill taught by my dad. So for example, when I was a little boy, he would take me to lunch with his friends because I couldn't go to lunch with kids and I couldn't do play dates or anything like that. But if he was with me and he was my best friend, he would take me to a, lunch or whatever. And the deal was I could come and have these great interactions. But when he tapped his watch, I had to stop talking. So that was my message to A, stop talking and B, bookmark the situation. So we'd be out to lunch with somebody and as soon as we'd sit down, I'd start hammering away about whatever the guy's business was or profession or whatever it was. I was a kid with a thousand questions. My dad would tap his watch, I'd stop talking, and then later we would post game, right? So when Mr. McGillicuddy is, was talking about his wife in her gardening, you interrupted Mr. McGillicuddy to talk about how you're trying to do 200 push ups a night to earn a trip to Disney World, which is something my dad would have me do. And I go, right, dad? I thought that was really interesting. He'd go, okay, what? Could we ask Mr. McGillicuddy about his wife? That would be interesting. And it was that role playing of that really intimate understanding of the human equation that comes so naturally to so many that for me is a learned skill.
- [40:45]
Rachel Yucatel
Right? So it's interesting because I think back then when you were growing up, it sounds like, and it's clear, I mean you, you grew up and were Successful despite whatever you were, you know, diagnosed with or labeled with. And it. And it didn't really affect you. I mean, it affected you, but it wasn't an issue. You are where you are and very successful nowadays. And correct me if I'm wrong, it's because, again, I'm not involved in the Asperger's, autism, whatever the labels are. World. But it seems like we have the mental health days and everybody claims to be autistic when they don't want to do things and. Or if somebody acts bizarre or weird or different, you just say that's what they have. And you have to. The environment has to meet them where they are. Whereas back then it seemed like, or at least for you, you rose despite it. You know what I mean? And you met the environment, the environment didn't have to meet you.
- [41:44]
Leland Vittert
Yeah. Even back then there was offers for lots of accommodations. Sort of the late 80s, into the 90s, when I went to high school, the late 90s, there was a lot of accommodations offered. Right. So that was beginning to be in vogue. I think the fact that they were not meant that I had to learn to swim on my own. Right. And as I've said, that was a lot harder on my parents because it would have been a lot easier to say, hey, look, he's just. Him, he's just gotta kinda like, let him be who he is. They didn't do that. I think we now are learning the damage that has been done to generations of kids by embracing that. And I don't say that lightly, but you know, the Wall Street Journal out this month with, or last month now or in December, huge article about the massive over prescription of ADHD medication to kids at 3 years old and how that's changing brain development and it's forcing them to become dependent on other medications. And then you've got kids in their early 20s who were on five or six different antipsychotics.
- [42:53]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah.
- [42:54]
Leland Vittert
The Columbia University Teachers College out with this big study that we have created a whole new generation of kids who are anxious because they have been given accommodations for anxiety. And they said, effectively the worst thing you can do is give accommodations for kids who have anxiety because it will just create more anxiety about whatever the thing is. And you can't accommodate anxiety the rest of your life. Then there is the Atlantic, which is about as sort of classically sort of liberal and accommodating as you get, with an article out called accommodation nation, that 40% of the kids at Stanford University now claim some kind of disability and get a Special accommodation. We had one of the professors on who was a subject and highlighted in the article. And he said. He said, we are doing a huge disservice to the kids, but we're also doing a huge disservice to the country because suddenly now we're creating this credentialed class of people who can't do the work.
- [43:57]
Rachel Yucatel
Right.
- [43:57]
Leland Vittert
Because when they get to whatever business they're in, the business all of a sudden is learning. Well, yeah, this person got an A in physics, but only because it was graded on a curve, and only because they got four times as much time as everybody else did on the test, and only because they were allowed to bring in all sorts of study material because they have a doctor's note that said they're not good at memorizing things.
- [44:16]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah, right. But also, it seems like a world of excuses, too. I mean, listen, I grew up in a time where work ethic mattered and you had to go to work and you had to be there on time and you couldn't make excuses or somebody would replace you. And nowadays it's like people go and they take off two weeks because they have this problem and that problem, and they haven't been diagnosed as anything. And that was my next question. Do you think that this self diagnosis is a thing or this is just an excuse?
- [44:45]
Leland Vittert
You know, I really am not an expert on this stuff. A lot of people have asked me, say, you know, what's your advice? Or what's this? What's that? I'm. I'm a. I'm just a kid. I'm. I guess I'm 43 years old now. I'm not really a kid, but I just wrote a book about what it was like that growing up in a love letter to my dad. So I don't. I'm not wise enough or smart enough to. To opine on what other people do. I can say that going to therapy on national television or podcasts is not really fun. Bearing your darkest secrets in the worst parts of your life is really tough at times. You understand that? But if it can help other people, if it can give other kids who are going through what I went through, whether it's because of autism or ADHD or just bullying and the difficulties of growing up in social media, if it can give them some hope and give families some hope and let families know they're not alone, then it's worth it.
- [45:50]
Rachel Yucatel
Okay, well, then I want to talk to you about that. Watching your child struggle can be the most difficult thing and very confusing for A parent I don't talk about this much, but even just because it was recent, but even just a few weeks ago, I have a 13 year old daughter and she was getting, she went from being like one of the most popular girls in 8th grade class to being bullied completely where no one in her class would speak to her. Without getting into all sorts of details, my question for you is, as someone who was the child in the situation but now has a bird's eye view because you've spent so much time with your father, I want to know from a kid's perspective what that pain feels like. To go through the isolation and the emotions and be torn apart at school and then come home and have a parent who just doesn't know what to do and can offer so much. Like for me, I got involved. I wanted to break an eighth grader's neck. You know, I was in tears. I couldn't sleep. Just talking about it right now makes me cry because it's over, but I don't really know if it's over, you know, and just watching the pain that your child goes through, like how does a parent deal with it? But what is that pain like for the kid? Because I don't understand. Cause she won't tell me.
- [47:05]
Leland Vittert
Well, wow. I really feel for your daughter and I feel for you. If you read further into Born Lucky, you'll see there's a story that is almost identical to that when I was in junior year of high school that I sort of started to figure out how to get along with people and then exactly the same thing happened overnight. No one would talk to me. The stories in Born Lucky, I won't, I won't bore you now I'll answer what you asked. It's soul crushing, right? And I was pretty used to it, right, because by, by 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th grade, like I had, I had, I had gotten used to that kind of isolation and bullying and difficulty. I really point you to what my dad had to say in the, in that afterword about, you know, telling your kids that, that it's going to be okay. Middle school is not real life. And the things that make you bullied and misunderstood and isolated and made fun of when you're young will make you successful later in life. And I'm proof of that. I'm proof that if you fight through it and you don't change and you don't become one of them and you don't play their game, that there is real rewards to be had. So I think that that message is really important. And, you know, the thing that my dad did that was so remarkable and I think that was so much harder was, you know, he just spent hours with me listening. And that in, in a way was. Was allowing me to unburden myself. I'm. I'm starting to cry thinking about it and thinking about what you and your daughter are going through. So it's remarkable. Since I wrote this book, I've been asked to speak at different events, and it's been lovely. And I am at this one event now. I do it at every event. And I said, hey. I said, I just want to understand how many of you have are parents. Everybody's hand goes up, fine. I said, all right. I said, if your child is president of their class, captain of the football team or the field hockey team or volleyball team, 4.0 student has so many friends, they need a Google calendar to keep everything straight. And oh, by the way, I've never had any behavioral issues, never had any physical issues. Things are just fabulous. Put your hand up. And normally in a room of about 250 or 300 people, there's one person who puts their hand up, and it's always a guy. And I look at him and I say, congratulations, you have a great wife. The point being, I think you really don't understand how many families are really struggling and how many parents are going through this, how many kids are going through this. And that, to me, I think gives parents a lot of power and I think gives kids a lot of power to understand that this does get better. The part that I think is so hard now, that even my dad noted, who would have known how to do it, is the bullying comes home with social media, right?
- [50:22]
Rachel Yucatel
Oh, yeah.
- [50:23]
Leland Vittert
And what I don't understand, and it's mind blowing to me, my parents, you know, parents don't let their kids drink. They don't let their kids use cigarettes. They say, no marijuana, like all these things. But hey, here's your smartphone, and by all means have Snapchat. It blows my mind.
- [50:41]
Rachel Yucatel
Well, and the interesting thing with that, though, is that you take. You take Snapchat away and all the other stuff, and then they feel even more isolated because all their friends are doing it and they don't have it. And so now they're not part of that group. So even when I was like, okay, we're done, we're taking that all away, so you don't see all this stuff that almost was worse, you know, because she felt like, well, I'm the only one that's now not involved at all. I have to come home and sit here and have a conversation with you, you know? Well, so. But I love. I mean, I love what your dad said. Because that. That is what I say to her. Listen, high school is not gonna last forever. And by the way, what a great lesson. Her name's Wyatt. What a great lesson, Wyatt, because you now know what it's like to go through this. And sometimes it takes forever to learn how to get out of a hole. I can tell you. This has happened to me in eighth grade. It's happened to me half of my life where, you know, a lot of people didn't like me for different reasons. And I had to figure out how to be at rock bottom and climb out of that hole. And the value in that. Relying on yourself.
- [51:40]
Leland Vittert
And you can do it.
- [51:41]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah. And knowing who your friends are, but you can't rely on them for your happiness.
- [51:45]
Leland Vittert
Like, you have to do that and that knowledge, because we will all end up down in a hole together. Down in a hole again. The earlier you figure out I can get out of this, even though it's hard, the better it is. And I think the other thing for Wyatt to understand, and I've said this a lot. I've never liked anybody who liked high school. The values of high school are so screwed up. Maybe it's a little different for women than it is for guys, but the values are so screwed up that if you liked high school, there's something wrong with you.
- [52:20]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah, I get that now.
- [52:22]
Leland Vittert
I would say that that's also true about Washington. If you like Washington, the values are equally screwed up. I don't like you if you like Washington, but there's something to be said there that's funny.
- [52:31]
Rachel Yucatel
Is there a piece of advice, though, that you would give to parents on how to react to the kid? Like, you going through the bullying and all that stuff. Is it better for us to just sit and listen? Is it better for us to handle it, take it to the school, figure it out for you, or you just want us to, like, be there.
- [52:47]
Leland Vittert
I wish I was good enough to give advice. I think the best advice is from my dad in the afterword that you read. And I think probably, given what was going on with Wyatt had special meaning to you and to take what you can from. Just from the story. I, I, you know, I, I've written a parenting book by a kid, and so I, I feel weird giving parenting advice or out of my depth because I'm not a parent. I'm a dog parent. But. But Not a parent.
- [53:14]
Rachel Yucatel
Right, right. Okay. Speaking of which, you just got married this summer to beautiful Rachel. And is it okay if I ask you, are kids gonna be in your future?
- [53:28]
Leland Vittert
Well, you got to read the end of the book.
- [53:29]
Rachel Yucatel
Oh, okay. Well, I'm not there yet, but I want to see.
- [53:32]
Leland Vittert
Got to read the end of the book. That's the. I'm not going to give the ending of Born Lucky away.
- [53:37]
Rachel Yucatel
Okay, fine. Well, all right. I will skip to that as soon as I get off air with you. I hope you do have kids. It would be amazing. And, like, are there. What are the. What are the lessons that you would take from your father or the things maybe that, you know, that you won't do going forward with your own kids if you plan on having up.
- [53:57]
Leland Vittert
You know, now I'm gonna. Now you've asked a question that I have to answer and sort of give this away. Right. For a long time, I told every woman that I ever dated I didn't want to have kids because I didn't think I could live up to what my dad was or is as a father. And that was always really hard because of how remarkable he was. And I think also because I understood. I understand even more so now, having worked on the book and interviewed him, the enormous amount of work that he put in in the thousands of hours and the emotional toll and what he gave up and giving up his career and giving up, really his life, because for many years, it was more than full time. It was every night, every weekend. He was my only friend. He was just. He was there for me. He said, I knew your only hope was for me to be there for you. So that is really front and center for me. That said, I just feel so privileged to have had that example. So it goes both ways.
- [55:16]
Rachel Yucatel
Well, it's funny because when I read the last part, the after, afterward, aftermath, whatever it's called, I thought to myself, wow, isn't this interesting? Because people go into parenting. Most many people, me, I'm speaking of me, went into parenting saying, I know exactly what I will do because I don't want to be like my mother or I don't want to do what my father did to me. And so I. When I read that, I thought, wow, this is interesting because Leland would never say that. Leland would say, I now have an example of who to be when I have a child. So that was what went through.
- [55:51]
Leland Vittert
And, you know, look, it's. It's interesting. My. My wife, you know, she was 35, I think, when we got married. 30. I can't remember when we met. Maybe she was 32 when we met, 35 when she got married. We got married, and I was 40 when I got married. Neither of us had been married. Neither of us had ever been engaged. And that was because we both wanted to wait until we found a relationship like our parents had. Her parents have been married 43. Mine had been married 53. They're still both each other's best friends now. They're best friends with each other, but that's a different story. And. And that has been so important.
- [56:37]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah.
- [56:38]
Leland Vittert
That. That we both have that really common understanding of what a marriage can be and what great parenting can be, which is just phenomenal.
- [56:49]
Rachel Yucatel
Well, I wish you the best of luck with that and that cannot wait to hear if and when you have children. My last question, because I have to ask, because it's the theme of the show, what do you think is the most misunderstood thing about you can answer it. About you or about having autism?
- [57:05]
Leland Vittert
Oh, I think what I've learned when people have read the book or interviewed me about the book is there's this kind of idea that this is somehow a panacea or a cure or something like that. This is just a father, son love story, and it's an everyday struggle. And I think that really is what I think has been. What I didn't understand and what I do now, having written the book and then gotten the feedback, the hundreds of letters and everything from all sorts of different situations is just how many people feel so alone and feel so hopeless and how many parents just like you. I mean, who would think that you with a beautiful daughter and honor would be struggling with this and struggling in this way? And that's what I've really learned is just how, how hard it is and how privileged I have been and honored I am to be able to give people a little bit of hope.
- [58:08]
Rachel Yucatel
Well, I absolutely wish you the best of luck. I want everyone to read Born Lucky, tell people where they can find the book and where they can watch you. Are you nightly on.
- [58:18]
Leland Vittert
Nightly on News Nation? Every night at 9pm Eastern on news Nation. And then the books. Anywhere you know, books, Amazon, anywhere you want to be, anywhere you get a book.
- [58:28]
Rachel Yucatel
So what do you, what do you cover on News Nation? Is it everything or you?
- [58:33]
Leland Vittert
Yeah, I mean, I'm, I mostly do politics and culture. Got it. So I, it's, you know, it's just a nightly cable news show.
- [58:40]
Rachel Yucatel
Yeah. So amazing. Okay. Love it. Wish you the best of luck. Thank you. It's been an honor to have met you and to hear your story. I can't wait to finish the book and I wish you the best of luck.
- [58:52]
Leland Vittert
And we're what now two weeks from the wedding. Congratulations.
- [58:56]
Rachel Yucatel
Two weeks from yesterday. Yeah.
- [58:58]
Leland Vittert
Wow. What a. What a what? What an awesome time and all the best.
- [59:02]
Rachel Yucatel
Thank you.
- [59:03]
Leland Vittert
Thank you.
- [59:11]
Rachel Yucatel
Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yukatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five star rating and review. You can support the show by joining our patreon@patreon.com misunderstood with Rachel Ukatel. Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out? Email us@infomisunderstoodpodcastmail.com that's spelled M I S S underscore. Understood. Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.
- [59:43]
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