Fyre Festival Naming Rights Fiasco: Old Man Liver vs. Billy McFarland and the ChatGPT Blunder | Miss Understood #368

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
Episode: Fyre Festival Naming Rights Fiasco: Old Man Liver vs. Billy McFarland and the ChatGPT Blunder | Miss Understood #368
Date: April 11, 2026
Host: Rachel Uchitel
Guest: Steven (Old Man Liver)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Rachel Uchitel explores the bizarre, ongoing saga of the Fyre Festival — specifically, its brand value after infamy and the behind-the-scenes wrangling to acquire the rights to the name. She’s joined by Steven, aka Old Man Liver: musician, entrepreneur, and longtime event organizer, who shares his wild ride through the world of branding, liquor, and festival management, including his attempted negotiation for the notorious Fyre Festival name from Billy McFarland, the festival’s infamous founder. The episode dives into brand perception, the difficulties of the events and liquor industries, and lessons from notorious failures.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Old Man Liver: From Musician to Brand Mogul

[03:01–07:53]

• Origin of the Name: Steven explains how “Old Man Liver” began as a side music project poking fun at ageism in LA’s music scene and evolved into his persona and a full lifestyle brand.
  • “We just like to make fun of ourselves, but then the products are good... high quality and it seems to be a working match.” – Steven [04:40]
• Business Expansion: The name now encompasses a whiskey, beer, hot sauce, beef jerky, and bars—leveraging tongue-in-cheek branding and personal inside jokes.
• The Pioneer Saloon: Steven now owns and has revived this historic Las Vegas-area bar, enhancing its live music offerings and transforming it into a hub for unique events.
• Notable Events:
  • Breastfest—a rock benefit for breast cancer research, drawing big acts like Third Eye Blind [06:07]
  • Fallout Fan Celebrations for the video game/TV community, featuring celebrities such as Walton Goggins and Wayne Newton [06:58]
  • Mohave Mardi Gras, Nevada Blues Festival, and various themed gigs.

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The Art and Pain of Building Craft Liquor Brands

[07:53–13:38]

• Product Innovation:
  • Created “Nuclear Liquid” (a glowing vodka for Fallout fans), “Wasteland Whiskey,” and a Red Menace spice blend, tying products to events and pop culture.
• Barriers to Entry:
  • Liquor laws are highly restrictive, centering power with distributors and requiring approval, licensing, and tax hurdles in every state.
  • “Thank God I didn’t know [about] all that going into it... it’s kind of like communist in my opinion, the way the thing works.” – Steven [11:13]
• Naming:
  • Names are chosen to entertain the creators first and resonate authentically with specific communities.
  • “If you need it explained, you don’t get the sense of humor. It’s not for you.” – Steven (on the Old Man Liver brand) [15:55]

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Old Man Liver’s Approach to Events—and Building an Audience

[16:02–21:50]

• Event Planning Philosophy:
  • Prefers to invent original events, starting small and building through consistent quality and engagement.
  • Uses humor and authentic community connection to create lasting brands.
• Successful Examples:
  • Fallout Fan Celebration grew from expected 20–50 attendees to over 1,000 in its first year, and had to cap at 8,000 most recently [20:10].
• The Need for Logistics:
  • Stresses the substantial preparatory work behind the scenes.
  • Planning major events ideally starts a year in advance, especially in regulated areas like Las Vegas.
    • “I’d give it a year if you’re gonna try to plan something.” – Steven [21:50]

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The Fyre Festival Naming Rights Fiasco

[25:53–35:18]

• Discovery of Fyre Festival:
  • Neither Rachel nor Steven knew of the festival before the documentaries; both stumbled on it after the fact.
  • “I had never heard of it until I saw it on Netflix. I would never have just... been that audience to buy a ticket anyway...” – Steven [25:53]
• Valuing the Fyre Brand:
  • Despite its disastrous failure, Steven saw potential in repurposing the Fyre brand, believing execution—not ideas or branding—was its original failing.
  • “The marketing was fantastic... the branding was fantastic. The execution was non-existent. And so one thing we’re good at is executing.” – Steven [31:34]
• Taking the Shot:
  • After watching Billy McFarland struggle and seeing the value in infamy, Steven decided to submit a $100,000 bid for Fyre Festival’s festival trademark—despite the amateurish sales process.
  • “Normally you’d have this, like, 15 page thing with legal fine print... This was like a one page thing: give me your idea and how much you’ll pay.” – Steven [33:57]
• Amateur Process:
  • The online Fyre brand bid system was so rudimentary, Steven couldn’t enter a decimal or even a dollar sign in his $100,000 offer.
• Rationalizing the Controversial Move:
  • Many warned Steven not to touch the Fyre brand, but he leaned into the “infamous outsider” image of Old Man Liver.
  • “Does Old Man Liver give a shit? I don’t think so.” – Steven [34:56]
• Progression of Negotiations:
  • Billy McFarland’s team responded quickly. Initial communication was spotty and felt “shady,” but they did progress to serious discussions about the offer.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Building a Brand by Having Fun:
  • “People are just hearing about it for the first time, so they’ll be like, ‘Oh, what’s it like to be an overnight success?’ I’m like, well, I started this thing like 25 years ago, so there’s that.”
    – Steven (Old Man Liver) [04:24]
• On Why People Start Liquor Brands Despite the Difficulties:
  • “There’s a reason most people don’t do it… Thank God I didn’t know [about] all that going into it.”
    – Steven [09:05, 11:13]
• On the Appeal of a “Tarnished” Brand like Fyre:
  • “A lot of people can’t touch a brand like that when it’s associated with fraud… But Old Man Liver brand, that’s right up my alley.”
    – Steven [31:34]
• On the Dubious Professionalism of Billy McFarland’s Operation:
  • “Even the amount you put in [the bid], you couldn’t even put a decimal point in there...someone’s great grandma could have put together a better website.”
    – Steven [33:57]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:01–07:53]: Old Man Liver’s origin, evolution, and brand expansion
• [07:53–13:38]: Launching liquor products; the legal and logistical hurdles
• [16:02–21:50]: Philosophy and mechanics of building and scaling successful events
• [25:53–28:48]: First encounters with the Fyre Festival story and reactions to the Netflix documentary
• [30:24–35:18]: The nitty-gritty of the Fyre Festival “auction” and Steven’s motives and process

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, irreverent, and laced with self-deprecating humor—particularly from Steven/Old Man Liver, who pokes fun at his brand’s oddball naming conventions and embraces controversy. Rachel, as host, brings informed skepticism to the idea of “infamous” branding and is genuinely curious about the motivations and mechanics behind risky business moves.

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Conclusion

This episode delves deep into what it means—and what it costs—to seize an infamous brand’s legacy. It delivers a real-world look at modern festival culture, the craft liquor industry, and the wild, weird path from disaster to potential comeback. With Steven’s humor and honesty, and Rachel’s astute questioning, listeners walk away both entertained and educated on the highs and lows of branding, risk, and redemption.

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To hear how negotiations between Steven (Old Man Liver) and Billy McFarland ended, Rachel directs listeners to the Patreon exclusive for the juiciest details.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] when it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want, like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. So this week I got to sit down with Billy McFarland, the guy behind Fyre Festival, the most famous event that never happened or whatever they call it. If you didn't listen to that, go back to YouTube or, you know, to Apple, Spotify. Wherever you get your podcast, listen to it, watch it. It's kind of fascinating. He was one of the guys that was on my bucket list when I started this show, someone who was reduced to a headline. And I wanted to hear from the horse's mouth why he did what he did and what he's doing now. So it's been really interesting because he got out of jail and he tried to do Fyre Festival too, and it most recently fell apart again, which is like incredibly hard to do, I would think. I would think you spent four years in jail thinking about how you're gonna resurrect yourself, how you're gonna make it happen, and it fell apart. Anyways, today I interviewed a guy named Steven, who's known as Old Man Liver, who is one of the guys who tried to buy the brand of Fyre Festival, which is shocking to me because how is it even worth anything? But when you sit down and talk to this guy who has over 30 years of experience in the events industry and entertainment industry, you realize that there is potential there, why he did it, the conversations and the negotiations that happened between the two and how it fell apart, and it's completely fascinating. I hope you enjoy this episode. And if, if you haven't gone to see the Netflix documentary of Fyre Festival, you should. So you get, you know, informed on what this whole conversation is about. But I would be shocked if you don't know what we're talking about. So thank you so much again for listening. I appreciate everything you guys do for us. Make sure you leave a review. Subscribe. But, you know, I really, I loved this episode with Old Man Liver, and I hope you do, too. Stephen, thank you so much for joining me today on Misunderstood. How are you all the way from Las Vegas?

[A]

I'm, I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on.

[B]

I'm so happy you're here. So, Old Man Liver, where'd you come up with a name like that?

[A]

Well, so I was in the Los Angeles music scene for two decades, and I kind of grew up there, so to speak, even though I'm originally from Louisiana. But when I turned 30, being in the music industry, you're kind of, you know, the ageism thing starts to hit and people started going, oh, you're going to keep doing this pop and rock stuff in your, in your 30s and 40s. I'm like, well, hell, you know, like B.B. king was, you know, still doing club gigs till his 80s and Les Paul till his 90s. And not that I put myself in that category of talent, but just the attitude of playing till you die, I've always liked. So I was like, I started a side project called Old Man Liver that was separate from my regular band called early dawn. And we started doing some big shows at prominent venues in Los Angeles like the Viper Room, the Whiskey A Go Go, the Roxy Theater, the Troubadour, all that stuff and gained some notoriety. And originally I'd called the band Old Man Liver, but kind of like the Alice Cooper scenario, everyone just started calling me that. And now, now we have a whiskey called Old Man Liver, American Whiskey. We've got a beer, a hot sauce, a jerky, and open some bars under the Old Man Liver brand, too.

[B]

So that's amazing. So you really started as an artist and for your love of music, and then you, you branded out into different, you moved out into different brands.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So it really, it's really expanded over the years. And people joke because a lot of people are just hearing about it for the first time. So they'll be like, oh, what's it like to be an overnight success? I'm like, well, started this thing like 25 years ago, so there's that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it is kind of cool to see it transform and become all these other things. And the attitude, like, we just like to make fun of ourselves, but then the products are good. And high quality and it seems to be a working match. And we still do the gigs still, you know, I go back to my roots with the live music and we still do old man Liver shows as well to this day. I've got one on April 19th at the Pioneer Saloon right outside of Las Vegas.

[B]

Amazing. Speaking of the Pioneer Saloon, now that's your place, right?

[A]

It is, yep. It's the oldest bar in all the Las Vegas area. So it, it comes with, you know, 113 years of, of history.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I've had it the last five years and I like to feel like I've made my mark on it too, which includes like stepping up the live music and stuff that I enjoy too.

[B]

Wow. So, yeah, I read that you've been in the entertainment industry for over 30 years or whatever it's been now, long time. What's been some of the biggest acts that you've brought in? Because I know now you're in the entertainment and events business in general. So what are some acts that you bring in or at least to that saloon?

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of fun. I mean, we started in 1999 doing a breast cancer benefit called Breastfest, which at the time, strangely enough, even though it was the 90s, was controversial because it had breast in the name. So we had MTV and all the, you know, national exposure through this thing. And we had brought in Third Eye Blind and Duncan Chic, who were really big acts at the time.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

From there, that's where we started. And now we've moved it to Las Vegas, but we're still doing it. And then we also held a Fallout Fan celebrations for basically a party for fans of the Fallout video games and the Amazon show. And we had stars like Walton Goggins and Wayne Newton come to our event this past November. So it's been a fun ride over the years with different. Some organizing our own events, some, you know, participating. Sometimes I got my business hat on, other times it's the guitar player hat. And I like the creativity and the business side of both of them. And I've got a record company as well called Artist Addiction Records and we do like TV and film soundtracks like we did the Saw movies, ncis, Charmed, Stomp the Yard, stuff like that. So. So I, I enjoy both sides of the, of the music industry.

[B]

Wow. That's amazing. So I want to give a little plug because I know you have a whiskey and a beer line and I, I saw you just launched Nuclear Liquid. What is that?

[A]

Yeah, so. So especially post apocalyptic fans, they, they Love anything that relates to the Wasteland, you know, especially Fallout fans. It's. It's a hoot. And luckily, they give me credit for bringing the community together with these annual events, which are now on the east coast and the West Coast. So I, I, I wanted to start a. I already had a whiskey for the last six years, but I'm like, let's do something fun that really connects with this. This fan audience. And we may. It's a. It's a vodka, but we have to call it nuclear Liquid because we added a. A green tinge to it, so it looks like it's glowing and radiated and nuclear.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And it's actually made with spring water from Good Springs, Nevada, which is where the Fallout New Vegas video game starts. So I did a vodka and then a bourbon called Wasteland Whiskey that also is made from spring water from Good Springs, Nevada, but also includes pieces of wood from the Pioneer Saloon property itself. So people that are enthusiastic about the Pioneer Saloon or the town of Good Springs, through this video game can actually drink part of the property. So I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah. And it was a challenge because our distillery is in North Carolina, and we're based on the west coast, so we literally had to ship water across the country, which could have been probably its own reality show episode in its own right. But it all turned out great, and people love it, and it's brand new. And so in the states that we're in, which are like Nevada, California, New York, Florida, West Virginia, North Carolina, we can start carrying those at restaurants and bars and so forth, and then people can order it online as well.

[B]

I'm curious. How hard is it to create a liquor brand because so many people want to do it? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. There's a re. I learned there's a reason that most people don't do it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And thank God I didn't know, as they call it, the barriers to entry, or I might not have done it, but it was one of these things. My partner goes, you know, hey, we gotta, you know, she's like, old man liver needs. After. After the music and everything else, she's like, old man liver needs a whiskey. Old man liver needs a bar. And so we keep propelling ourselves and all these things, but the whiskey, you know, she said, give me three months to find a distiller that will make the flav flavor you want and the proof you want. Yeah. And sure enough, she pulled it off, amazingly enough. That's my partner, Mama Tess. She. And amazingly, we worked for a year on it and got the oaky, smoky and a tiny bit spicy flavor profile we were going for. But then I wanted it to be 90 proof. So you can say you get more. I can say you get more bang for your buck than Jim or Jack at 80 proof or whatever. So. But I, I didn't know a lot of the. The laws date back to Prohibition. So you have to go state by state. And first you have to get legal in the state, which is a process. And then you have to get a distributor in the state, which is also a process. Then you can go after the bars and restaurants and liquor stores, which is also processed because no one wants to try anything new. They know Jack Daniels in the big, big name sell. So why take risk on a small mom and pop operation? And thank God we've broken through that in a few states. But it's a process. And some states are harder than others. Ironically, Californ, New York are easy to get into where Texas and Live Free or Die New Hampshire are very difficult states. And then some of them have state liquor stores. And you have to, amazingly like Pennsylvania has a really interesting process where you got to send them a whole case of liquor for them to test and then like five people decide on whether it's going to be introduced to the entire state or not.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And. And you don't get your liquor back, nor the $500 application fee. So if they don't go for it, you know, you're kind of screwed. But I'm sure they have a good time on this stuff.

[B]

Yeah. Or they're just filling their, you know, whatever place they like with free liquor, right?

[A]

Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah. They probably. I'd love to see the bars in their houses at home. It's gotta be phenomenal. But, but yeah, so it's kind of like communist in my opinion. This, some of this the way the, the thing works. But. And every state is the same because they want. You have to go through a distributor. You can't just sell it on your own, which is bizarre. It's the only industry I' where you can't create something and just sell it. So the states keep it going this way because they get a markup from the distributor. So by the time you're already taxed at the distillery, of course you're taxed with sales tax when someone buy. When you buy a cocktail. But then you're also taxed by the distributor by generally 30% and then by the state, you know, another 30%. So really a cocktail that you order at a bar should be like half the price of what it is.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But there's so many taxes involved and so much bureaucracy. It's a, it's a nightmare. Nightmare. So thank God I didn't know about all that going into it, but now, you know, it's a lot of fun. And we just hooked up with a group of liquor stores in Vegas called Lee's Liquor. And that's one of the biggest chains in one of the biggest cities that we're in to start carrying us. So we're, we're still getting, getting out of the gate here, so.

[B]

Oh, that's amazing.

[A]

And can you.

[B]

So you can or you can't do direct to consumer? Like can you sell it on, on your. Online.

[A]

You technically you've got it. What's funny is like the Pioneer Saloon, for the first six months that I owned it, I couldn't carry my own whiskey because we didn't have a distributor in Nevada yet. And so that's the irony. We had to wait to find a distributor and then buy it from that distributor. So like one company, our butter popcorn company, you know, sells it to the distributor and then Pioneer Saloon has to buy it from that distributor. And so it's, it's a.

[B]

But can you like at your festivals or whatever, can you have a pop up there and sell it or can you.

[A]

Yeah, as long as we're legal. So ironically, we're throwing a post apocalyptic celebration in West Virginia in May, May 2nd and 3rd, called Wasteland Jamboree. And we just got legal in that state just in time. And now bars and restaurants can go through the, the distribution process over there to order it and to carry it, but if we had done the event in a state that we weren't legal or didn't have a distributor, we wouldn't be able to sell it.

[B]

Yeah. I'm curious. Last question on this topic. Hard it is like, is the name of it so important? Because that's what people are gonna recognize and see. Like, you have some really interesting names. Busty Blonde, Golden Ale. Love it.

[A]

Oh yeah. We gotta have fun with this stuff.

[B]

Yeah. But I mean, do you like sit there for hours thinking of what people are, you know, what people are gonna like or what people will think is cheesy or like, I don't know. How do you think of an.

[A]

What we do is we, we have a lot of. My partner, Mama Tessa and I have a lot of inside jokes together that we tend to turn and if they don't work, at least we can laugh that we know what the the meaning behind it is, yeah, in fact we have this, this Red Menace spice mix that came about when Mama Tess created a cocktail called the Red Menace that's like a version of the Bloody Mary but with my whiskey instead of vodka, which is now becoming trendy. But six years ago it was, it was unheard of. So she had to make a different spice than the normal celery based seasoning that you' a Bloody Mary. And people love that spice so much that they started like our photographer took it home, our publicist took it home. They people started, you know, buying it separately and sending pictures of their Thanksgiving turkeys done in it and all this, you know, like you put it on seafood steak, it's kind of becoming a Lowry's or Tony Shacheries. And the funny thing is it all came back to we called it the Red Menace because in my book I refer to Red Menace as a woman's period. And so it has a funny background that if it never sold one item, we'd still laugh at where the name came from. So we're really entertaining ourselves first and hoping someone else enjoys the party as well. And so far that's occurred because we haven't had one product that hasn't worked so far under the old man Liver umbrella. And obviously by the name. It's funny and we make fun of ourselves. But like I said, the products are really high quality and flavorful and that seems to be working. And people get the sense of humor. If you don't get it, you don't get it. I understand. We, we had, we had a distributor and in on the east coast that goes, yeah, I don't really understand the old Man Liver concept. If you, if you can explain it to me and my partner's always said if you need it explained, you don't, you don't get the sense of humor. It's not for you.

[B]

I got that. Yes, I totally agree. All right, so I want to get into the events and the festivals. You do now, which is why I've had you on. And we'll get to that in a second. But my husband owns five companies that have to do with large event production. But in the security side of things, like we're talking about the Olympics, Formula one, Google, Nvidia, things like that. I know how hard it is to get even the smallest of events to the largest events built. And it seems like you guys have gotten into the event space. Can you talk a little bit about your background in events, event planning, what goes into events? As we lead into the Conversation that I've, you know, that we're going to talk about, which is the fact that you wanted to. You were entertaining. Buying a brand that was more well known.

[A]

That's correct. Yeah. So we, I've always, I mean, generally I've created my own events out of ideas. And even the Breastfest thing came about in the 90s when my mom had breast cancer and I was, I, I didn't have any money. So at the time in la, I. There are all these charities, but they were like rich person charities where you got to dress up in a tux and go to a boring dinner and donate or whatever. And I didn't have any money, so I'm like, how can I help with the breast cancer cause and awareness and fundraising for a cure and all that without it being one of these stuffy dinners that I can't afford to put on? And I'm like, well, rock is in my background, so let's do a rock concert. And right away from Year one, luckily, because of the name, people thought it was funny and God, forget you have the name Breast and Breastfest, even though it's for breast cancer. You know, a lot of people jumped on and even like Ozzy Osbourne couldn't do the event, but he, he donated every. He's. He and Sharon have donated a lot of years to it, even when they can't perform. But that, that one got some, some attention from Year one. But in general, you're building stuff from scratch. So a lot of times with a new event, you gotta, you gotta do it and you gotta, you gotta first just do it with. Even if 10 people show up, right then if you're getting pictures and video, then you can show people what it's about. Because if it's a unique idea, they're not going to know from, from the beginning, they're like, what's this Breastfest? Is that a porn convention or something? No, it's a charity event. Blah, blah, blah, you know, so. So like we did. We do another event called Mohave Mardi Gras, and it's out here on the west coast because I'm originally from Louisiana. Mardi Gras is a big holiday in Louisiana. And I. Everywhere else I've moved. It's annoyed me that, you know, you don't get off work and school and all that kind of stuff for Mardi Gras because it's, that's a great holiday. Yeah. And so I brought it out to the west coast in the first year, you know, we had, you know, a decent People come out. But then every year, you know, more and more people come out for it because they see pictures online and they go, and you can start adding stuff. And eventually we started flying out crawfish from New Orleans and have an authentic gumbo and Pat o' Brien's hurricanes and beignets and all this stuff. And last year we added a parade to the event. And so it's just slowly building year after year, and that's generally how stuff happens now. With the initial Fallout fan celebration, I thought it was going to take time to build, too, because when I took over the Pioneer Saloon, we knew a lot about its history and there's a lot of things it's famous for, but I didn't really understand the background of it being in a video game and how popular this video game is and called Fallout New Vegas. And people started coming around every day and I felt like we were disappointed because we just have a little Xbox game on the wall or whatever. And I'm like, let's, let's don't, you know, dedicate a shrine outside of this dining room to just Fallout fans. And then, then it became like, let's see if they want to get together for National Video Game Day. And we were expecting, you know, being realistic, we're like maybe 20 to 50 people, 100 at best. And we had a thousand people show up the first year, and then it's just, you know, gone on from there. We had to cap it at like 8,000 people this last one.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Because it just got too much. People were buying tickets at the last minute. We didn't have enough buses and all that kind of stuff. So sometimes things grow quickly, sometimes they take some time. But to your point and what your husband knows, that there's a lot of background work that goes into these things. And, you know, Wayne Newton and Walton Goggins don't just stumble on the event, even though you want to create the effect that they, that they do in some cases to surprise fans and that kind of thing. So a lot of man hours goes into it. And in some cases we have big organizations that help us strategically with these events. In the case of, like the Fallout event that we do, we have a hierarchy, a whole team of mega fan volunteers that basically spend year round to help us put this thing on.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So there's always a lot of. Even though I'm in the face of a lot of these events, there's always a lot that goes into it. And then I started the Nevada Blues Festival just because I saw a need for it. Being from la, I was used to like, you know, jazz blues festivals in Long beach and New Orleans has Jazz Fest and all these other places I lived. I'm like, why isn't there like a. A blues thing out here in Vegas that's really big and well known and there's a couple events but nothing, you know, I was like, there's needs to be a state Nevada Blues Festival and if no one else is going to do it, I'm going to do it. And so once again, that's one that just kind of builds and has more and more people each year. But a lot of logistics goes into things and how long is the, how

[B]

long is the appropriate time to start planning in advance for these kind of events?

[A]

Yeah, about a year in general is ideal. Now we challenge ourselves and I always go back to, you know, some of these events that were really big like the 80s. Like Live Aid was done primarily in like two months. Yeah. So it can be done, but in general you want about a year to plan things out. Especially in areas like Las Vegas that has a very serious process of going through to throw an event like, like we do. And it's a lot of. There's required licensing requirements permitting. All stuff has to be done in advance. So I'd give it a year if you're gonna try to try to plan something.

[B]

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[A]

Running a business means checking a lot of Boxes.

[B]

Let's see.

[C]

Payroll check. Inventory check.

[B]

Insurance.

[A]

Ah, good thing. Simply Business makes getting small business insurance fast and easy. Check insurance off your [e-mail] if you've

[D]

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[C]

and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis and we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

[B]

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[A]

So we're, we're like everybody else where we, you know, just caught it as a Netflix documentary and we're like that, that, and, and even, you know, my partner I was mentioning, Mama Tess, she actually, you know, talked about back in the day before I met her, she was actually going to go to the event and looked into buying tickets and all stuff. I had never heard of it until, until I saw it on, on Netflix. I would never have just, I wouldn't have been that audience to buy a ticket anyway without knowing the lineup, just to be cool or whatever people are buying tickets for. So, so for me, it was something I stumbled upon and like I said, normally I like to start my own creations from scratch, but Pioneer Saloon was a big jump for me to buy a pre existing business, which I had never done before. I've sold businesses, but I've never bought businesses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now I'm a little more open to, to if, if I think I can do something with a, a brand, I'm like, okay, like that has a long. There's a lot of potential there in that brand. And now I'm more open to being able to, to buy into these things,

[B]

these situations and, and maybe make it more than what. What it is.

[A]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's the case with, you know, Pioneer Saloon. We go and visit it and we're like, oh, this could be, you know, what if they did that? Or what if this was. That could be so much bigger and cooler and not, you know, and, and you see the potential and then when it, when something becomes an opportunity, you kind of have to jump at it. And in the case with the Pioneer Saloon, a lot of people were vying for it, from big corporations to investment groups. And I never thought in a million years I would, I would get it. But it was one of these weird things where even though I'm not a big fate guy, I felt like it picked me because I started dreaming about it. And I was like, I wake up and like, honey, I've got to have this. I don't know why. It's, it's just in my soul. And I felt like now sudden all the other offers fell through and dropped out. And it, and it came to me like, all right, let's make this happen. But the Fyre Festival was one that I definitely, with my experience and my partner's experience in throwing big events, I wasn't worried about. I wouldn't have had the same challenges, I don't think, in throwing a similar event on an island somewhere in the Caribbean and such.

[B]

Right. It was very similar to what you just explained. I had never heard of Fyre Festival until I saw the documentary on Netflix. And it's interesting cause I was in that industry. I mean, I opened up, I think, 18 different nightclubs. You know, I went to St. Barts and worked there for six months, bringing in events, all sorts of things, and I never even heard of it or Billy McFarland. So it was interesting when it Came out. I'm like, how did I miss this? But I also was not the target. I mean, Billy right now is, I think, you know, I had him on the show this week. I think he says he's 36 now. I'm 51, so I guess we're not in that age range. And also everything.

[A]

Old man liver either.

[B]

Yeah. So everything that he put out and still to this day does is very cryptic. And that's a whole different generation where they, you know, think it's cool. You know, they started with that yellow square, orange square, and everyone's like, oh, I have to be there. This is gonna be cool for me. I look at stuff, I'm like, what does that even mean? Like, that's not even for me. Right. I need a little more detail and I need to know, like, who's gonna be there, where I'm going, what's happening? So. But I found the documentary fascinating. It was very interesting, obviously, when he went to jail and this became a very serious issue. Right. For people that have listened to the episode this week, we know that he got out after four years when he was sentenced to six, and immediately kind of went right back to it, promoting. He was gonna do Fire two, which I think a lot of people thought was crazy, didn't understand. And to shorten that conversation, it did not happen. And he was gonna do it in Mexico. It fell through. His version is very interesting because I keep reading everywhere that people still think he's a fraud and that he was making up stuff. His version to me was that there's plenty of evidence that even the Mexican officials had put out stuff on their Instagram showing that they had made this deal and they were excited to have them in. But then when they were challenged by the media, they kind of pulled out. So who really knows? And I guess they're making a documentary about it and we're gonna find out about it. But, you know, I'm curious for you, because I heard you talk about the fact that you were in negotiations with him and his team to buy the brand Fyre. Fyre Festival or Fire. Is it the same thing?

[A]

Yeah, same thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And in fact, he doesn't necessarily. We had to look into all that too, because you've gotta do your due diligence when you're looking into this stuff. And it's like, who really owns the trademark? And. And it was a process, but he has the trademark on festival side of things. But you can still use Fire brands with other non related industries and such. So his thing was was having owning the festival brand. And he thought the Netflix thing put him over the top where it was like a multimillion dollar type of brand and it turned out to not be true after, you know, everything that's transpired.

[B]

Right. Well, what's crazy about that is, and my question was, where did you see the value? Because it was two events that didn't go off and it's associated with somebody that people think is fraudulent. So I was curious, you know, obviously there's upside to it because you could take something and actually make it work and that you can get a ton of press automatically from it. That part I got. But is that why you saw the value in it?

[A]

Yeah, it was one of these things where just like the Pioneer Saloon, we saw the potential of it that and we're like, the idea could have been cool, like you know, a bunch of bands out on a island with models and all that stuff. Marketing was fantastic and the, the, the branding was fantastic. The execution was non existent. And so one thing we're good at is doing things and executing. Everyone has ideas, right, but who follows up on those is a whole another ball game. And that's where you get into the 1% of, of people that have ideas that actually execute. So you know the potential of the brand right away. Because I'm like, a lot of people can't touch a brand like that when it's associated with fraud and all this kind of stuff. But Old Man Liver brand, that's right up my alley. So I'm like, I can, I wanted to go out and go, I'm going to do what Billy couldn't pull off and do it right and do it awesome. And it would already have the built in publicity from the Netflix documentary. And we're like, yeah, probably somebody would want to, want to do one on the second one. So like, but then you know, it obviously he had, you know, and we followed the whole thing with him trying to do the Mexico one. And that was even painful too because we have a property in Belize that we're like, oh, we could do this thing tomorrow in Belize and with everyone we know over there and pull it off with, you know, without a problem with, you know, getting the, the government approvals and the permits and all that kind of stuff. So it was painful to see that not being, being able to be pulled off as well. And eventually it got to a point where he said I can't. You know, I think he had to admit to himself that he can't, he can't execute it and that's when he put it online that, hey, I'm gonna sell this thing. And the funny thing is the page that was online was hilarious because it's like this. Normally you'd have this, you know, like 15 page thing with legal, you know, you know, got a sign and check a box to agree to all the legal fine print and all that stuff. This was like a one page thing. Give me your idea and how much you'll pay. And you couldn't. Yeah. Even the amount you put in, you couldn't even put a decimal point in there. It was like. Or a dollar something like the whole thing was, was like a, you know, amateurish at best.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean I, I don't even like someone great grandma that's not tech savvy at all. Could have put together a better website to sell a brand that's supposed to be a high end brand. So, so it was, it was funny. And I didn't, I, I just put in a hundred thousand in the thing. I couldn't put a comma or a dollar sign. So I'm like, I hope they get that and they don't read that it's a million or 20 bucks or whatever.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that was my bid for it was a hundred thousand dollars because when, when we were following the thing because we are in the festival industry and we never. Now, now it' joke. When we do an event like we don't want to, especially if it's a new event like this wasteland jamboree we're doing in West Virginia May 2nd and 3rd. We're like, we do not want a fire festival. This. We kind of use it as an adjective or adverb or whatever. Like don't be like Firefox. Let's, let's notify people ahead of time. This chain, you know, and that's, that's kind of our go to.

[B]

Right. Of course. What not to do. Exactly.

[A]

I put my hat in, you know, and I couldn't, you know, not take a shot at it. You know, it was just one of those things like Old Man Liver could get away with a controversial brand and do it right. And, and I, and a lot of people are like, are you crazy? Then you don't want to be associated with Billy McFarland. I'm like, does Old Man Liver give a shit? I don't think so. So like, so how did they, how

[B]

did, how long did it take for them to respond?

[A]

So ironically, you know, they got back with us pretty quick and, and so, you know, we started the process and it, you know, became basically, Billy had like three other people that bought into his fame coming out of jail. And when he said he's going to try to restart the brand, I, I'm guessing he gave him some kind of commission based incentive or something to join them. So this, this guy calls me up, I'm not going to say his name name, but he was Billy's associate and said, hey, you know, I got, we got your submission and it sounds interesting. Let's, let's talk about some ideas. And at the time I was in Utah for some other stuff and I was, you know, trying to talk to him on the phone now it was kind of hard to get on the phone for a while and I'm like, okay, this already feels a little shady, but whatever, I'll stick with it and feel them out. And eventually we connected and he also like the ideas we had for it and said, okay, we'll see what happens. And then I don't know if a few other things fell through. And then to us, way more serious like we're ready to move forward with your bid and go from there.

[B]

Guys, I hope you're enjoying my interview with old Man Liver. This gets super juicy. So juicy that we have to put it behind a paywall. So if you want to listen to the rest of this, go to patreon.com misunderstood with rachelucatel. Don't forget misunderstood is spel spelled M I S S. Understood. The link is in the description below.

[A]

When you run a business, there are a lot of boxes to check.

[C]

Let's see, payroll, check. Inventory. Check insurance.

[A]

Ah, well, good things. Simply Business makes getting small business insurance fast and easy. Just answer a few questions, review your quotes and get covered in under 10 minutes all online. It's that simple. Check insurance. Off your [e-mail] simply.