Honoring 9/11 with FDNY Commissioner Robert Tucker

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
Episode: Honoring 9/11 with FDNY Commissioner Robert Tucker
Release Date: September 10, 2025
Host: Rachel Uchitel
Guest: Commissioner Robert Tucker, 35th Fire Commissioner of New York City

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Episode Overview

This episode, released in time for the anniversary of September 11th, features an emotional and insightful conversation between Rachel Uchitel and FDNY Commissioner Robert Tucker. Together, they reflect on the legacy of 9/11, explore what it means to lead the world’s largest fire department after unimaginable tragedy, and discuss how the firefighter community, and New York itself, continue to honor the fallen while facing modern challenges. With both participants sharing personal connections to the day, this episode goes beyond headlines to humanize loss, resilience, and the ongoing mission of the FDNY.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role and Journey of Commissioner Tucker

• Background: Tucker shares that he is a lifelong New Yorker, born at Lenox Hill Hospital, educated at Fieldston, GW, and Pace University Law School. He began as an intern at the FDNY in his teens, became a prosecutor, and founded a security company before moving into leadership roles at the FDNY Foundation and, eventually, Commissioner.
  • "Childhood dreams really can become adult realities...I used to chase fire engines on my bicycle with a scanner." (06:05)
  • His passion for the fire department started young but family pressures kept him from becoming a firefighter.
• Leadership Contrast: Tucker is not the first non-firefighter Commissioner; he highlights the value of diverse skill sets in leading such a complex organization.
  • "I think the best executive of a big agency like the FDNY could be someone who didn’t grow up there." (26:01)

2. The FDNY Today—Challenges and Vision

• Department Size & Scope: 18,000 employees, $3B budget, 240+ firehouses citywide (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, the Bronx), plus 40 EMS stations.
• Blending EMS and Fire:
  • "For 25 years they’ve been under one umbrella...but I don’t think we’ve ever adequately merged the two." (27:19)
  • EMS is described as a national crisis: low pay, relentless workload (1.6 million calls/year, ~5,000/day), and staffing challenges.
• Operational Innovations:
  • Partnerships with tech giants like Google, Oracle, Amazon to improve logistics and response; learning from private sector efficiency (think: Amazon deliveries).
  • Exploring new models for handling non-critical 911 calls and integrating rideshare tactics.
  • "If Amazon can deliver toothpaste in an hour, then they know something about moving packages around that I could learn from." (29:21)
• Personal Leadership Philosophy:
  • Admits the system is hard to overhaul, but remains committed to setting up future solutions: "If I get to eat it [see the payoff], that'd be wonderful, but if I don’t, the next person will." (29:50)
• EMS Calls vs. Fire:
  • 50% of firetrucks’ runs now back up EMS, especially for high-priority medical calls.
• Work Culture:
  • Describes FDNY as a soulful “brotherhood” with deep purpose and career longevity:
    • "They know each other’s families...The best advice comes at the kitchen table in a firehouse." (39:56)
    • Notes the growing role and acceptance of women and veterans in the ranks.

3. The Weight of September

• 9/11 Memory:

  • Rachel and Commissioner Tucker both recall their personal September 11th stories, emphasizing the disbelief and horror of the day and the lasting wounds it left.
  • "September 11th is not just a date on the calendar—it’s a wound, a memory, a defining moment we carry in our bones." – Rachel (02:00)
  • Tucker’s Story:
    • On the night before, he was with John O’Neill, newly head of WTC security (who died the next day).
    • At Ground Zero that morning, seeking out fire chiefs, suddenly caught in the building collapse.
    • Saved by a police officer: “A police officer I knew opened the door, and by the grace of God, I lived.” (54:15)
  • Arbitrary survival: "It was so arbitrary about that day who lived and who didn’t." (55:22)

• Continuing Loss:

  • Department lost 343 firefighters on 9/11, including best-of-the-best and nearly the entire leadership. Tucker emphasizes the emotional toll and the ongoing deaths from related illnesses:
    • “We've already passed 343 [from illness]. You're going to get to 5, 6, 7, 800, 1,000 more firefighters who tried to find their brothers under rubble who are going to die as a result.” (45:22)
  • September is a difficult month: “There’s something in the air that’s just not normal.” (44:01)

• Cultural Memory:

  • Each firehouse has memorials to the fallen; many legacy children of 9/11 now serve in the FDNY:
    • “The most special ones are the legacy children of the 9/11 fallen.” (49:14)

• Annual Memorials:

  • Tucker is present for the entirety of the 9/11 ceremony—firefighter’s mass, bell-ringing at the crash times, and the reading of every victim’s name.
  • Honors not just fallen firefighters, but all victims.

4. How the FDNY Has Changed Since 9/11

• Modernization:

  • Now a “sophisticated, all-hazards public safety agency” with its own counterterrorism center.
  • Constant learning and adaptation—including sending staff to incidents nationwide (ex: California wildfires) to bring back lessons.
  • Updated protocols, gear, and technology.
  • "Everything has changed, but we will never forget. That’s the key…everything we do, every single day, we remember those who came before us and made the ultimate sacrifice." (67:55)

• Preparedness:

  • Training and mentality have shifted for new crises (active shooters, terrorism, mass casualty events):
  • "Absolutely...You've got firefighters, EMTs and paramedics in full ballistic flak jackets saying, let me in there, I want to get in there." (68:49)

5. Grief, Community, and Second Chances

• Consoler-in-chief:

  • Tucker describes his role as not only operational but as the department’s principal comforter for families and staff.
  • "I am the consoler-in-chief of the FDNY." (18:09)
  • Rachel: "There is a sense of knowing and seeing [9/11 families], because of what they went through…and indeed compassion." (47:51)

• Shared Experience:

  • Both guests discuss the unique solidarity among those affected by September 11th, its lifelong emotional effects, and its power to bind survivors and families.
  • "I thought there would be 50,000, 100,000 dead people. I couldn't imagine there wouldn't be." (60:43)

6. Looking to the Future

• Message to Families & Probies:
  • Every new recruit learns the history and honors the lost: "Our probies walk by [the memorial wall] all the time and they salute it and honor it, as do I." (69:21)
• Vision:
  • "The future is very bright for the FDNY because of the tradition, because of the culture...it is a calling to run into a burning building when people are running out." (70:33)
• For Listeners:
  • September 11th should be marked as “more than an anniversary… it's a day of reflection… a day we remember some iconic people… for the next hundred years.” (71:25 & 72:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Childhood dreams really can become adult realities...I used to chase fire engines on my bicycle with a scanner." —Robert Tucker (06:05)
• "My mom wouldn’t let me be a fireman. It was just that simple." —Robert Tucker (07:44)
• "EMS is the biggest crisis in public safety in America that nobody’s talking about." —Robert Tucker (27:19)
• "This is the greatest job. I can’t imagine there is a better job than New York City Fire Commissioner." —Robert Tucker (38:43)
• "September 11th is not just a date on the calendar—it’s a wound, a memory...a defining moment we carry in our bones." —Rachel Uchitel (02:00)
• "By the grace of God, I lived. But what was so arbitrary about that day is who lived and who didn’t..." —Robert Tucker (54:15 & 55:22)
• "We’ve already passed 343 now, but you’re going to get to 5, 6, 7, 800, 1,000 more firefighters who tried to find their brothers under the rubble who are going to die as a result of it." —Robert Tucker (45:22)
• "The most special ones are the legacy children of the 9/11 fallen." —Robert Tucker (49:14)
• "Everything has changed, but we will never forget. That’s the key…everything we do, every single day, we remember those who came before us and who made the ultimate sacrifice." —Robert Tucker (67:55)
• "It is a calling to run into a burning building when people are running out." —Robert Tucker (70:33)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:27] — Tucker’s childhood, path to leadership, and early FDNY connection
• [10:04] — His security company and pivotal moment after 9/11
• [18:09] — Explaining consoler-in-chief role after recent Park Ave shooting
• [27:19] — Integrating EMS and fire, and current organizational challenges
• [39:56] — Firehouse culture, brotherhood, and retention
• [43:45] — September as a hard month; the legacy of loss
• [49:14] — Second generation ('legacy') firefighters, honoring the fallen
• [51:23] — Commissioner Tucker's firsthand 9/11 story
• [67:55] — How 9/11 fundamentally changed the FDNY
• [69:21] — Tucker’s message for the families of the fallen, and new recruits
• [71:25] — Closing message for listeners on 9/11’s deeper meaning

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Closing

This episode offers a deeply personal and practical look into the legacy of 9/11, the culture of the FDNY, and the evolving challenges of protecting New York. Rachel Uchitel and Commissioner Tucker both humanize their headlines, bear witness to ongoing pain, and celebrate the resilience and family spirit of the department. Through reflection and candor, they illuminate how remembrance must be both an act and an ethos—and how the FDNY marches forward, shaped by tragedy, strengthened by tradition, and always focused on saving lives.

Transcript

[Rachel Yucatel]

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[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

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[Rachel Yucatel]

Today on Misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. I think it's fascinating that you've done all these different leadership roles. Explain the day to day of what the commissioner does.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I'm the CEO of the Fire Department. It's the largest fire department in the country. And then this building started to rumble and come down, and I was in big trouble. I'm banging on the door. I can't breathe. It's completely dark. A police officer I knew opened the door, and by the grace of God, I lived.

[Rachel Yucatel]

My fiance at the time had been there for the 93 bombing. And even after the second plane hit, which was his building, I could see that he was above where it hit.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

We have a counterterrorism center within the Fire Department. Yeah, everything has changed, but we will never forget. And that's the key. Everything we do, every single day, we remember those who came before us and who made the ultimate sacrifice.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Welcome back to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yukatel. Well, September 11th is not just a date on the calendar, as we all know, it is a wound, a memory, and for so many of us, a defining moment we carry in our bones. On this day, we remember the 343 firefighters who ran toward danger when the rest of the world was running away. We honor their courage, their sacrifice, and the families and colleagues who continue to live with that loss. And every single day. The FDNY is more than a department. It's a symbol of resilience, duty, and service. And today, as we mark another anniversary of 9 11, I wanted to sit down with the one man who now leads that institution, Commissioner Robert Tucker. Commissioner Tucker's path is unusual. He never wore the gear of a firefighter, but he's been connected to the department since his teenage years. From his first internship in Manhattan's communications office to his decades in the FDNY foundation board. He's a lawyer, a security executive, and now the 35th Fire Commissioner of New York City, responsible for guiding the department through a new era of challenges. We'll talk about what it means to inherit the weight of this legacy, the controversies and changes that Come with leadership and the vision he's setting for the future. Everything from faster emergency response to the wellness of the men and women who serve. But most importantly, we'll reflect on the culture of bravery, brotherhood, and sacrifice that was seared into the FDNY's identity on 9 11, and how that legacy continues to guide the department today. For me, this conversation was deeply personal. As many of you know, I lost my fiance on September 11th, and this day will always hold a sacred place in my heart. To sit down with Commissioner Tucker was not just an interview. It was an honor. And afterward, he invited me and my fiance, Dan, to visit one of the firehouses. Walking through those doors, seeing the pictures of the fallen on the walls, an entire house nearly wiped out in 2001, it was overwhelming. I had to fight back tears as I felt the weight of that sacrifice. And yet, the house was also alive, filled with energy and camaraderie, carrying forward the spirit of those who were lost. In fact, one of the children of a firefighter who died that day now proudly serves in that very firehouse. Remembering isn't passive. It's about carrying forward the lessons, the heroism and the humanity of that day. And there's no better time and no better voice to help us do that than Commissioner Tucker. Because a lot of people, I don't really think they know what the FDNY commissioner does. What. What does that even mean? So, like, I. I really want to get into.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Sure, I'd love to talk about, you.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Know, what firemen do, but they don't know much about who's running it and paying attention and telling them what to do. So, anyway, let's start if you're okay with introducing who you as a person, where you came from, where you were born, what kind of family you were born into.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. So I'm a lifelong New Yorker. I was born at Lenox hill Hospital on 77th street, which is still there. I spent a lot of time in New York City in private school. I went to Fieldston and graduated, went to GW and graduated. I went to Pace University Law School at night while I was working as a prosecutor or as a paralegal, special assistant to the district attorney, and then became a prosecutor.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Okay. When you were little, did you play with fire trucks?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. Yeah, you laugh. It's not so funny. The funny thing is that childhood dreams really can become adult realities. And. And I used to chase fire engines on my bicycle with a scanner.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Oh, no way.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And. And. And there was a firehouse on 85th Street. I grew up on 83rd Street. You know, back in the, in the early, when I was riding a bike alone on the streets of New York City, you know, there were no cell phones, my parents didn't know where I was and I had this little four channel scanner, but I didn't even need it because I would chase the fire engines out of the firehouse and just chase them down Lexington Avenue or wherever they were going. And I loved the fire department so much that my mom, who was Mayor Koch's assistant, got me a summer internship in the fdny. And it was kind of cool. During my swearing in as fire commissioner, I had the ID card of 15 year old Robert Tucker.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Oh, no way.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And so it's pretty cool. And interestingly, there are a few people, one in particular who I knew back then who's still in the fire department. But I started as an intern and along the way I became a trustee of the FDNY foundation and always had a great interest in fdny. And now I'm the fire commissioner.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Why do you think you never became a fireman?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Oh, my mom wouldn't let me. It was just that simple.

[Rachel Yucatel]

She thought it was too dangerous.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, I think she and my dad had a different idea of sort of the path I was going to take and they had a lot of influence over me.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right now, before you took this role, can you just lead people a little bit through all the jobs you had and kind of the path that got you here?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I mean, it's actually. I wish it was more complicated. When I graduated from college, I was hired at the Queens District Attorney's office. I was a non lawyer employee of the office and served as special assistant to the late, great Richard A. Brown, the District Attorney of Queens County. And I went to law school at night and I became a lawyer in 1996 and I passed the bar and I was an assistant DA until I had this idea to start a security company in 1999.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And what kind of security company was that?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

So interestingly, you always have a plan and then the best, smartest, brightest people execute perfectly on it. My, my original idea was that I knew lots and lots of cops because I was an assistant DA and they were all working, moonlighting, off duty. And I thought, let me organize that better. It seemed, you know, one guy was working at a supermarket, they were, you know, one guy was working as a chauffeur, one guy was working at Tiffany's. Some of it was on the book, some of it wasn't on the book, some of them did it with permission from the police department. Other people just took the risk. And I said, you know, I can. I can organize this right. I' be the adp, if you will. The back office. Yeah, There was no ADP at the time, but the. I'll be the back office for cops who want to work off duty. I'll do all the paperwork and I'll do exactly what ADP does is skim a little fee off of their. Off of their compensation.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

That was the original plan. And then I met a detective from the Midtown South Detective squad named Bob Trotta, who is the T in TNM. Just celebrated his 80th birthday. And he's a Palm Beacher, incidentally.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Nice.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And. And he had a very small company called tnm, Trada and Malloy. They were two detectives in the squad, and they were providing off duty cops to the New York Stock Exchange for security. And they had one or two other account accounts like that, but nothing. This. The. The real company was we hire and employ off duty cops at the New York Stock Exchange.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And I thought, you know what? Let me, let me talk to him because that sounds interesting. It's a. It's kind of what I want to do. Let me. Let me get involved with him. And he was great. And he. John Malloy had already exited the company. And he's like, look, let's make a deal. You buy the company. It was very small at the time. And. And I will work for three years with you, and then it's yours. Do what you want. And that's the setup. Only. Only the three years, you know, 99, 2000 and 2001. When 911 happened, everybody in New York City wanted off duty cops.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And I had them.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And that changed the whole business.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Wow. Right. So we'll go back to 911 in one second. Two things. It's so interesting because you bring up your childhood in Manhattan. I was born in Anchorage, Alaska, but I moved here when I was five and I'm 50, so I remember similar. You could run around the streets of New York, especially as a female, and there was no fear anything was gonna happen to you. My mom didn't even know where the hell I was. And I had a single mom. You know, I grew up with a single mother. So, like, there was no one really there to watch me. She was working two jobs. She was. Or she was getting her mba, I guess, at. And then during the day was working somewhere and I was raised by a housekeeper. And I don't even know how I got through it. I remember the days flying. My dad lived in Alaska. Flying from New York City to Alaska on an airplane as a child with no cell phone. How did kids even do that back then? Remember?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Do I remember? I'm a product of it. But. And my sister and I joke about it all the time. And you're right. There was a payphone in the lobby of my doorman building. And occasionally. Not often, but occasional. Occasionally my mom would call that payphone and say, have you seen Robert?

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Or have you seen Amy? And that would be the extent to which they could keep tabs on us. But, you know, it feels like there was less trouble to get into.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And what was the worst thing that might happen? I might come home with a black eye or a bloody nose. And, you know, occasionally that happens. But. But for the most part, we were. We were really good kids, and there weren't that many.

[Rachel Yucatel]

I do remember I went to Nightingale, so I went to a private school.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I went to Alan Stevenson.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. Okay. So. And, you know, I remember a couple times hearing about abductions, and they became a very big story, but they were.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

They were a gigantic story. You know, it was not.

[Rachel Yucatel]

It was few and far between.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. And, you know, there was, like, some troublemakers in my neighborhood on 84th Street. There was a. There was Mimi's Pizza on Lexington and 84th Street. There was a place where you could play games there. And that was a place you could sort of find trouble. Trouble would find a guy like me.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

But again, you know, you weren't getting shot.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

You weren't getting stabbed. Now, look, New York City is a lot safer today than it has been in a long time. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a public official. I'm saying that because it's true. So I don't want people to think, well, today you go out and get shot and stabbed. But it just. It. It felt different. Now, to contrast what I just said, do you remember that you'd wake up in the morning. We had a dog, so I had to walk the dog because my parents didn't want to walk the dog.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Of course.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And every morning there were cars broken into, and the radio was being.

[Rachel Yucatel]

I was just gonna say, the only thing I remember is the radios and then the commercials for the. The thing you had to the club.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yep.

[Rachel Yucatel]

They had to put on the car.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

So. So you had that.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And no doubt that was problematic. And remember the radio that started to pull out of the car, and everybody was walking around with their car radio, so it Was just a different time. But nevertheless, I have three children and they're all here in the city now with me this summer and they're working in different ways and they're on the subway and I'm nervous about it and I'm not nervous. Again, crime is at its all time low in New York, which some people.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Don'T understand, especially because of what happened a couple days ago.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And we can talk about that. I was there and it's obviously it shook me and I think it's been very difficult for a lot of people on a lot of levels, me included. But anyway, I worry about them and I think I worry about them more than my parents worried about me and my sister. And I can access them immediately. Like as soon as they get off the train, they text me dad at work, you know, and that's, that's a feature that our parents or your mom.

[Rachel Yucatel]

I just think back then there wasn't a lot of fear. Like if it happened, it didn't seem like it happened to you or anyone you knew. You read about it in the post and that was the extent of it kind of back then. I think Rudy Giuliani did do a great job of cleaning the city up for a number of years, especially leading up to 9 11. And people did feel safer. And today the things that happen are so much more extravagant that you could have even come up with back then. I mean, a guy walking in with a massive gun like that and just taking people out wasn't even that. I don't think there was something people even thought.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, I mean, you know, unfortunately this type of incident is happening more frequently than we want to talk about.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

The problem is that it's rare for you and me to have it happen on Park Avenue and 51st street in 345 park that's housed, you know, houses Blackstone and the NFL and KPMG and other big companies. And you know, when you shut your eyes, you picture 51st in park. You don't even live in New York City anymore and you can picture 51st and Park. So there's, there's that part of the, the invasiveness of that, that incident, but it's also that, that you know, you had a very sort of wide spectrum of victims there. You had a police officer which is obviously remarkably horrible and an assault on the rule of law and all the things that this country can't tolerate. But you had a young Cornell graduate who went to AAA camp and summer camp and mom is a well known doctor here in New York City. And lot of people knew her or her sister. You had a fabulous rising star, Blackstone executive young woman who was the UJA honoree and who's just, you know, a complete rock star in probably one of the most important and greatest firms in the world. Blackstone just wiped out you. You know, it. You, you with, by the way, two.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Young kids and a husband. Her daughter was in my daughter's class.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Well, a Heschel mom also. Yeah. But. But. And then you had a security officer in the lobby of the building. You know, and you have. There's another victim that was very seriously wounded. The point is that the spectrum.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Is, is, is, you know, not to in any way take away from a classroom full of kids, but it's just a classroom, you know, it gets lumped as one.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Today was the funeral for this, this young woman just starting her life. And, and, you know, my, My kids knew her and I'm, I'm trying to, you know, you know, in some ways, my, when we talk about my job, I am the consoler in chief of the FDNY as well. But I'm also a dad.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And I'm trying to console my children through, through. Through a horrific incident. And it's, it's inexplicable. It's, it's, it's there. I don't have the vocabulary.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

To, to explain to, to anyone. A firefighter, an emt, a paramedic, or my daughter.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

What the heck happened? How does a guy drive from Nevada here, double park his car, walk across a several hundred foot, you know, plaza and just start spraying bullets? Like, what's going on?

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah, but, you know, I have a. D.C. politicians want to enact harmful credit card mandates that could take away your cash back and rewards points perks that stretch your budget and make life a little easier. Losing these benefits means less money for your family's everyday essentials like gas and groceries. The problem perks you rely on could disappear, leaving you with higher costs and fewer options. Tell Congress to guard your card and oppose the Durban Marshall credit card mandates.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

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[Rachel Yucatel]

Because with your security background and obviously what you do now, you know, we started to see this with United Healthcare assassination. Now something like this, how could they have prevented that? What are the ways that people can even do anything? Because at this point it's like, I know I've been in that building. I've been in buildings like that where the security is really tough. You can't go upstairs unless you go through. You show your id, they tell you what floor you're going to. You have to be on the list. You can't even get to the elevator and go upstairs unless your name is approved. But that's one kind of security. But if someone walks in with a gun, that's. Forget all of that. That goes up in the air. So how do you prevent something like that?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

You know, I think if I knew I would just go, I'd quit now and go sell that, right? I don't know is the answer. I have some thoughts about it. First of all, what it shows you is even when you're doing it really well, like the Rudin Management Company was doing at 345 park, terrible things can happen. And fire is an interesting, you know, thing too, when it comes to terrible things can happen because, you know, you can do a lot of things well and, and just fire can, can get, get away from you. So I'm learning that as the fire commissioner. But, but that building, you know, had a lot of, of security enhancements in it. And, and the tenant space was built in a way that seemed to have been thoughtful around security. Yet, you know, you get a guy who blows away everybody in the lobby. He walks onto an elevator. It's, it's goes to 33. 33 is nowhere near where. And now we know he was looking for the NFL, right? He's nowhere near the NFL at 33. And, and he kills this young woman just, just, you know, with, with no regard right, to her life and to what she might have been. And then kills himself and kills himself thoughtfully because he shoots himself in the chest so as not to disturb his brain, which is the whole premise of what it appears he was there for from these football injuries he suffered as a young man. So honestly, I'm still trying to get my arms around the events. I was there. Our firefighters, EMTs, paramedics, were all very involved with the NYPD. We have a rescue task force that searches the building, firefighters, EMTs and paramedics in full ballistic vests with the cops. Because if they come upon a victim that needs life saving support, that's the fire department's job. And so we were really working hand in glove with what is our SWAT team in New York, the NYPD Emergency Services unit, the SRG and crc. These are special units in the police department. And I'm very, very, very, very proud of the first responders. I mean, you know, didn't save the lives of those who were taken from us that, that evening. But, but they did. They, they did it the way they practice and train every day.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because, you know, in preparing for crisis and security issues like that, you know, the obvious is to think of the terrorist attacks and the people from the outside, but you can't always prepare for the crazy or the people like in the United Healthcare issue and this issue where they were trying to make a statement, they were trying to show that you wanted people to look at his brain, make more awareness about playing football and what it does to you. And so, I mean, it is interesting because you cannot always prepare and plan ahead for that kind of, whether it's crazy or that kind of mentality.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I mean, this is gonna sound like I'm giving advice to the next guy that wants to do this, but if that's really what you want to do, he could have walk on that plaza, killed himself right, right there in front of everybody, and probably gotten exactly the same amount of attention for the issue.

[Rachel Yucatel]

CTE and, and empathy, probably.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

That's exactly right. You took the words out of my mouth without, without killing a police officer. And, and people in the prime of their lives.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Hardworking security guard in the lobby. I mean, you didn't have to do that.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

To. To accomplish. And to your point, even maybe accomplish more.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. Yeah. Okay, let's get into what you do for a living now. I think it's fascinating that you've done all these different leadership roles. So explain the day to day of what the commissioner does.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Look, I'm, I'm the CEO of the fire department. It's the largest fire department in the country.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Are you the only one that's had this job that's never been a fireman.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

No, no. And, and in fact, look, I am not saying it because I, I am that it's, it's split maybe 50. 50. Look, I, I come from a place where I think the best executive of a big agency like the FDNY could, could be someone who didn't grow up there. That doesn't mean I'm the best. It just means that the skills that I bring to running and partnering really with the fire chiefs and, and a number of my deputies, but I bring a lot of different skills than they have not to in any way. And I know the lanes, I belong in the lanes. I don't. But ultimately I'm, I'm responsible for the day to day operations of the largest fire department and the largest emergency medical service, ambulance service in, in the country.

[Rachel Yucatel]

I don't think I knew that they went hand in hand.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, well, they don't always, and they didn't always in New York, but, but, but they do now.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Okay.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And that's one of the, one of the big challenges I have is because for 25 years they've been one under one umbrella agency, FDNY. But I don't think we've ever adequately merged the two, the fire service and the EMS service together. And I think we could, you know, we're going to be forced to do it. I mean, EMS is the biggest crisis in public safety in America that nobody's talking about because in all honesty, nobody wants to be an EMT because we just don't treat them well. And in New York City, as I said, it's a national problem. But in New York City we're talking about 1.6 million calls for service a year, almost 5,000 calls a day. And so what that comes amounts to is you just going from call to call to call all day and you don't have time to go to the bathroom and you don't have time to eat lunch and, and when you take 10, 15, 20 minutes to try to catch your breath, you know, you know, my supervisors are telling you, hey, get back. We're holding 40 calls, you got to get back and answer them. And so I think we have to really rethink how pre hospital care is delivered to everyone in the country. And there are states and cities and villages that are doing it more creatively than we're doing it in New York City. And I'm trying very hard working with anyone who will work with me, frankly, but particularly big companies like Google for AI and Oracle and lots of, lots and lots of. But big name companies.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

But, but even Amazon, you know, if, if they can deliver toothpaste to my house in an hour, then, then they know something about moving packages around that I could learn from.

[Rachel Yucatel]

But do you think it's just that they have more vehicles, more staff?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I mean, I think that's relevant, but I, but I think there's a optimization that's going on and an efficiency quotient that's going on, that, that's, that's working better than, than mine.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And you know, part of why I really love this job is that I finally have the confidence to say that I know what I know and I know what I don't know and to admit that this is a really hard problem to solve. And nobody in my job, and I'm the 35th New York City Fire Commissioner, but, but nobody has tackled it and nobody has solved it. And I'm trying as hard as I can to sort of set the table, preheat the oven, season the food, get it in the oven, and then if I get to eat it, that'd be wonderful, but if I don't, the next person will have to eat it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. But do you see the solution or is it about. You can't figure it out yet, but there's gotta be a solution.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I think it's a multi pronged solution that's going to involve rideshare services like Uber and Lyft. I think that we're going to have to figure out how to better deal with the boo boos that we deal with, which is a lot of what 1.6 million calls amount to. Many, many, many, many calls a day are just because the person needs a ride to the hospital because they can't afford to get there themselves. And we've got to, we've got to look at it for what it is and be honest about it and be honest about our capacity to deal with it and also be able to say to you, hey, we're not going to be able to get there fast. We're gonna, we're. If you really want us to come, you're gonna have to wait.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Because if we come to you for a sprained ankle or a scrape on your knee and we do that a lot, then we miss the cardia.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And someone dies and that's heavy. And that keeps me up at night and I want to try to solve it. And I don't know that we have ever really attacked it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah. I mean, this is such an Ignorant question probably, but I have no idea. How does it work when somebody calls 91 1, are their ambulances just wait, lying and wait like an Uber waiting for their next call? Or do they, are they attached to a hospital and they have to bring the person to that hospital?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

No, no, they're just waiting and we want to take them to the closest. That's actually something I have been experimenting with because we always take the sickest patients to the closest appropriate emergency room. Okay, so if you're having a heart attack, we've got to get you to the hospital fast, right? So we get you to the closest hospital and if you were in a very bad car accident and you're a trauma patient, we want to get you to the closest trauma center. But if you're, if you're not seriously injured, we still have to take you. We can't abandon you. And so, but what we have been doing at FDNY for a long time is saying, well, you want to go to Lenox Hill Hospital, we'll take you there.

[Rachel Yucatel]

I see.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And what I've decided is, and that.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Travel time can just take away from.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

A lot of, is that we're going to try to go within 10 or 15 minutes of where you are and that's it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And because I know an instance where, where a guy with plenty of means was working on Wall street and he wanted to go to Mount Sinai Hospital because that's where his doctor was. So on the way up the FDR Drive, he passed Beekman Downtown Hospital, he passed Bellevue, he passed NYU Langone, he passed Lenox Hill, he passed New York Presby, he got off the highway at 96th Street, Metropolitan Hospital right there. Past that, went right across to Madison and, and got to Mount Sinai in about 30 minutes. And now that ambulance, which belongs at Wall street, is now at 100th street in Madison and they never get back downtown. But also there, it's just, we're not, we're not a ride share service. We're not, we're not a taxi. You know, if, if you, if you can, if you can do that, just call an Uber, right. Or let us call one time.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Do you think that people assume that if they come in, in an ambulance, they're going to get served in the ER quicker?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I do, but I think they're wrong. And ultimately I am working very closely with the CEOs of the five big hospitals in New York. And we're going to have to figure out together because look, this is everybody's problem. It's not Just mine. And all the common denominator for the five big hospital systems and me is that we all want to save everyone's life that we can. But there's an economic quotient here, too, which has to do with getting patients into the emergency department, because those hospitals get paid for that.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And. And I've got to figure out how to, how to, how to please a lot of people. But ultimately, in the job that I'm in currently, the most important thing to me is just bringing patients to the closest appropriate emergency department.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Got it. Okay. So you said there's around 5,000 calls a day to 911. Right. How many of those are fire related?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. So that doesn't include fire.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Okay.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

However, what we've now started is that our fire engines are supporting our, our ambulances.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Okay.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And so about 50% of what our big, beautiful red trucks are doing is going to EMS calls.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Oh, wow.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And so that's a whole new thing because they can get there fast, but.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Only if it's deemed important enough.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yes, exactly. They're not going, they're not going to boo, boos, but they're, they're, they're backing up our ambulances. And that's working pretty well. I think it could work better. I have some ideas around that. I have to deal with the unions that represent the firefighters and the fire officers and the EMTs and the paramedics. Look, unlike in my past life when I owned my own business, I now, even though I'm the fire commissioner and I'm the head of this great organization, it's not as easy to get things done as it was at tnm.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. Yeah. There's a lot more people to go through.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

There's a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of red tape and a lot of constituencies to please, and it's very frustrating. And I cannot more highly recommend to my peers, take a sabbatical from what you're doing and come to government and do something really meaningful. Pick an agency, you know, if, if.

[Rachel Yucatel]

They want to do that, though. How hard is that to get?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I think it's. I think it is hard. I think, you know, I'm only the 35th person to run the New York City fire department in 160 years. And so, so it's, it's, it's, it is hard. It's a, it's a, you know, it's a select few, but I don't know that we have enough smart people coming to government.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And we've got a lot of complainers out there. Who are like, what's going on with New York? Well. Well, what do you do?

[Rachel Yucatel]

You know, so your job is something that is appointed by the mayor. Correct. All right, so it's not like you're running on a platform.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

No, no, no. I'm not political.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Okay. And so what happens then? When. And if the mayor changes? Do you get reappointed?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I serve at the pleasure of the mayor, and it's been the honor of a lifetime to be the New York City Fire Commissioner. And I have Eric Adams to thank for that. And, you know, my plan is to work for him.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Okay. If somebody else becomes mayor, how does it work, though? They appoint someone else or you could potentially stay.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I have. I. I could potentially stay. You know, that. It. That doesn't. In. There are certainly, you know, there are certain jobs like mine and, and the police department and maybe one or two others that are.

[Rachel Yucatel]

That are.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

That are usually given to people that the mayor knows.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Got it.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And so I think it would be unlikely that I. That the next mayor wants to keep me, but I'm, you know, not going to opine on whether that will happen or won't happen right now. As I said, I'm honored to work for Mayor Adams.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And you love your job.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

This is the greatest job. I can't imagine there is a better job than New York City Fire Commissioner. The fire service is. Is this brotherhood of the most amazing human beings you've ever met. And they're different than the people who I worked for at tnm and how. So they're just. They're just really happy. Really. There's a lot of soulfulness in. In the fdny, and, you know, it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Seems like they have. They feel a sense of purpose.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Absolutely. They. And. And they get to. To. To do. I mean, there are firefighters. Many, many with. Many, many with well over 30 years on the job.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And you don't see that in a lot of industry.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

That's the point I'm making that. That, you know, they just stay. They just love it. You know, they. They're. They know each other's families. They. It's a. It's a firehouse, is a house.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

They sleep there, they eat there. They. They sit at the kitchen table and solve the world's problems and certainly, you know, solve their own problems. The best, best medical advice comes at the kitchen table. The best divorce advice comes at the kitchen table. The best legal advice. Anything you need happens at the kitchen table in a firehouse.

[Rachel Yucatel]

How many firehouses are there in Manhattan?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Well, there's about 240 in the city. Don't forget it's Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten island and the Bronx. So there's about 240 firehouses. There's another 40 or so EMS stations.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Okay.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

It's big. I mean it's almost 18,000 employees and about a 3 billion dollar budget.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And again, maybe another ignorant question, but is it like, you know, a baseball team where you get moved to another house?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Do you stay with one for 30 years?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. I mean, I think for the most part you get to stay where you're assigned. Okay. We, we detail firefighters from a more rural area to a more urban area every once in a while for about a year. So that they just learn how to be high rise firefighters as opposed to house firefighters. But plenty of firefighters are in the same fire company for years and years.

[Rachel Yucatel]

For years and years. Okay. You took.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And they become the senior man there and they, they.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Is that the goal?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean they're, that's not the goal, but it happens. And, and you know, while, and look, you can get promoted to lieutenant and captain and battalion chief and deputy chief and so, but, but, and that's when you get moved. But, but, but even, you know, you could get a young lieutenant that has a senior man in the firehouse. And it's almost like an officer and an enlisted man in the military. You know, the enlisted senior man has a lot of clout even though he's not an officer.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Is there something that most of these men possess and women possess that come into this field? Is it something that they followed in their parents footsteps? Is it something they didn't want to go overseas and sign up into the military, but they want to fight for their country?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a lot of that. And we get a lot of veterans that come back and come onto the fdny. We have some absolutely phenomenal women firefighters. Absolutely unbelievable. Just great. And they fit in this notion that they're ostracized to one side of the firehouse. It's not true at all. They're as welcome at the kitchen table as anybody. In fact, they bring a whole new element of conversation and experience. Set. One of the most enjoyable parts of my job is the ability to just show up at a firehouse and you know, I don't just show up, but I'll call a few minutes away and say, hey, I'm on my way, make sure the place looks nice. But I have coffee at the kitchen table with them and we Talk. And it's so special. There's something special going on in the fdm and why that if I could really describe it, I'd write about it because it is worthy of. People have tried and some people have done it very well, but my experience has just been very special.

[Rachel Yucatel]

You took this role, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, in August of last year. So you've already been through a September 11 day. This will be your second one. What is the preparation that goes into the celebration or the memorial?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

September is a very hard month for the fdny. You know, as you roll out of August, we know it's coming and there's something in the air that's just not normal.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And you know, when that, on that day, we're 343 New York City firefighters are killed. And I mean, it's an extraordinary number of lives lost. But it's not just the number, it's who. The entire leadership team, the most specialized special firefighters, the best of the best of the best. And, and it hurts. In fact, it feels different for me now talking about it than it did because I didn't have both my feet on the ground in September. I had just been sworn in. I was the fire commissioner for a month. But today it hurts me to even talk about it. And what hurts even more is the astronomical number of firefighters who have died of illnesses that they got in the recovery effort. Hundreds. Hundreds. And the number of firefighters who are sick.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

They're going to be hundreds and hundreds more. You're going to, you're, we've, We've already passed 343 now, but you're going to get to 5, 6, 7, 800,000 more firefighters who tried to find their brothers under the rubble.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Who are going to die as a result of it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. It's incredible.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

It's unfathomable.

[Rachel Yucatel]

What. So on September 11, there are, it's a full day of events. How much of that are you involved in?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I start very early in the morning. There's a firefighter memorial up on Riverside Drive. There's a mass at a firehouse up and up near there. Then I come down because I want to be down at the site by about 8, 8:15. And we, we ring the bells to honor the exact time in which both planes crashed into the buildings. We read the names of those who were killed, not just firefighters, but everybody that was buildings. It's.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Are you there for that whole name?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

How do they, I've always wondered how do they pick. It's always family members. Right. That are reading the name.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And they just. Every year, it's just.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. I mean, you know, look, It's. It's almost 25 years since. Since that day. And you. You know, some parents aren't alive anymore. Some. Some people only go to the milestone days. 25 years. 20 years, 15 years. You know, time has moved on, but it has not moved on for the fdny. It is a solemn, miserable heartache, really difficult time for us. And I said it earlier, you know, as in my capacity as the consoler in chief of the fdny, which I take very, very seriously. It's very heavy to hug and to love people who I don't really know, but who my heart bleeds for.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. And who. There is a sense of knowing and seeing them because of what they went through. And you just feel, indeed, compassion. What I have always thought was amazing, and it's always very hard for me anyways, even to talk about, but walking by the firehouses in the month of September or the days before, whenever they put it out. But people, the people who died from that firehouse, they usually have their pictures out. I don't know if they still do that.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

No, no. We have memorials of firefighters in every firehouse for those who are working on 9 11. But, you know, sadly, we've lost firefighters for other reasons. And in the firehouse where they were, we have a big plaque, pictures. Some have, you know, their turnout coats or their helmets. It's really one of the real special parts of the FDNY is exactly. Is just how. How much they. They honor the fallen.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And. And how of our department are today to the culture that we still honor.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah. It's been incredible to see how many children of those that were lost in 911 have become firemen, firewoman themselves. Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

No, it's incredible. I mean, that's. That's. It's so special. You know, I have the honor of swearing in new probationary firefighters, and of course, I always know who they are. And I just. Every single person that walks across that stage is very, very special, especially to me. Some because they served in our armed forces, some because they have a dad that's iconic, who they followed or grandpa. But the most special ones are the legacy children of the 911 fallen.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah. And it must be nice for you to be able to witness what their parents couldn't or what their father.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. I mean, it's just. It's done so well and so respectfully. I mean, you know, I can't rave enough about what's going on inside fdny. And I'll tell you something that's interesting because I was a trustee of the FDNY Foundation. I was an honorary Fire Commissioner of the City of New York. You think you know what's going on in fdny? Trust me, I thought I knew what's going on inside this place. You know, nothing until you're part of it. And, you know, even, even I had some FDNY sweatshirts. Like, I, I wear the, the. The garb that I get with such pride now. It's, it's not just because I'm a fire buff now. It's because I'm a part of it. And, and I wear that patch with pride and with, With a dignity. There's something really extraordinary happening there, and I'm very, very excited to talk about it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. Can you talk about your own experience with 911 and where you were?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah. So my 911 story really starts on September 10th. I was playing in a golf outing at Purchase Country Club, and. And I got a phone call from a guy named John o', Neill, who was an FBI agent who had just taken the job as head of security for the World Trade Center. And John and I were friendly because of the story. People think, oh, we were best friends. We were not best friends, but we were friends. And we saw each other four or five times a year socially, but not, not more. Four times a year. And he called me and he said, hey, look, I have a opportunity for you in your. I was in the security business. And I said, john, I'm playing golf and call me tomorrow. He's like, no, no, it's a today opportunity. I said, john, skip me. I said, I'm. I'm at this really nice place, Purchase Country Club. It's. I want to hang out with the people. After, I'm going to shower, have a couple cocktails. I'm going to eat some food. I'm going to go home. He's like, robert, I'm gonna wait for you. I'm like, john, this is ridiculous. But okay, So I shower up, I have a couple of drinks. I go down to the World Trade Center. September 10th, it's pouring rain at this point. I go up to his office. He shows me his office. We talk. He tells me what the problem is. We're hanging out. He said, let's go up to Windows on the World for a drink. Drink. September 10th. Up we go. It closes. We go back down. His car's in the garage. Mine's on the street. I go out to the car that was. That was driving me and I, we were gonna go up to Elaine's on Second Avenue. We go up to Elaine's, we have a big dinner, we have a few more drinks. Now John's not driving. He's in the car with me, where someone was driving us. And. And we go out to the China Club. And now we're at China Club and we agree that we're not going to start the job tomorrow. And I call it off. We're hanging out, and it's now September 11th, and I decide it's time to go home. And I left John there. And the next morning was an election morning, and I was voting and I heard about a plane hitting the World Trade center. And I thought, wow, I bet that's going to be cool to see. I want to go down to see that. I didn't think terrorism. I didn't think. And I thought, wow, I'm a fire buff.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I want to see that.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And so I got on the FDR Drive in my little BMW and I drove down the FDR Drive after. Fell behind a police car that was going down. And as I'm driving down the FDR Drive just before the Brooklyn Bridge, you could see the World Trade center on fire. And I watched the second plane hit and I thought, oh, my God, there must be something wrong with the radar, the autopilot.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I'm still not. I mean, I know I'm supposed to sit here and say I thought terrorism right away.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Nobody did.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I didn't.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And, and I'm not.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Not.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I'm honest. And I'm like. I literally thought something was wrong with the, whatever, the avionics, and it was causing planes to think they're at some altitude and they're not.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And so I just continued to go there and I got out of my car and I walked there and I knew all the fire chiefs and I was saying hi to everyone and, and.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And, and at this point, are they all just congregating downstairs?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, there's massive amounts of firefighters coming in and people are coming out. And I'm there because I can be. And I had been doing the security at the stock exchange and I was standing with my guys there, and then we walked over, and then I walked back and walked over, and then this building started to rumble and come down and I was in big trouble. And I was able to run to a side door of the Woolworth Building. And by the grace of God, I'm banging On the door. I can't breathe. It's completely dark. You can. I'm with. Trying to breathe through my jacket. I was wearing a suit. I'm banging on the door. And a police officer I knew, Kim Royster, who later became a police chief, but opened the door and she goes, right, Robert. And I go, Kim. And she, I came in the building and we shut the door and she got some water and poured it on me. And, and, and, and I lived. But what was so arbitrary about that day is who lived and who didn't live because there were other people standing not far away from me who ran in a different direction. Direction. And they're not, they're not here. And so that's my September 11th story. And, and look, I had a. I had a business and a business to run with an office by the stock exchange.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And now we had no power and we had no, you know, became a very big challenge to run. We were, I, I tried to, you know, there was no cloud.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

If you weren't running your business out of the cloud. So we tried to take as much as we could. We had a payroll to make. It was a very, very, very.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Incidentally, what happened to the guy that you had been out with the night before?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

He was killed.

[Rachel Yucatel]

He was killed.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

I'm so sorry.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

You know, I was working at Bloomberg at the time, and I worked the 5am shift, and I had just gotten back from Greece, and I'll never forget waking up that morning and I was on, on Greece time. So I was up even earlier at three in the morning, and I said to my fiance, or he was watching the Weather Channel, actually, when I came out when I was getting ready for work, and he said, wow, it's going to be a beautiful day. Just as beautiful as when we were in Greece. And so going to work that day, you know, we all remember how beautiful and clear of a day it was. Out of nowhere, kind of. And, and in covering the news, you know, working on a newsroom floor, there's hundreds of TVs everywhere. Up top on our desks, we all have four TVs, you know, and the first plane hit, and everyone thought it was a little commuter plane. And I remember, you know, all the guys on air, a guy named Dylan Rattigan, who I'm still very close with, was the anchor at the time, caught on air, and most of the people that were, were in news at the time, that were doing live stuff were stuck on air until noon. So it really defined a lot of people's careers at the time. And Dylan and everyone else was reporting it was a commuter plane or something and it was an accident. And you're right. Like no one even thought that this could be terrorism.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And when the second we didn't even.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Know what terrorism really was.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

You know, you had to be John o' Neill who had been been. The irony of John dying that morning, it's like he had been trying to tell the world after the coal bombing that there's a really bad group of people who are trying to hurt us.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Don't forget we had a 93 bombing there as well. And so, but, but I don't think terrorism was what it is.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. And even, and Andy, my fiance at the time, had been there for the 93 bombing and he would tell, he told a story about how, you know, they told him not to go anywhere and he played poker with everybody. He worked at San o' Neill and they played poker until they were allowed to go downstairs. So even after the second plane hit, which was his building, I could see that he was above where it hit. And so I again didn't come from a place of fear. I thought, oh, he'll just go up to the roof, you know, and none of us had. And this is a terrible word to use, but I believe it, the creativity in our heads to think, oh, the buildings are going to fall. Like that was not even a possibility.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I agree with you. I just never dreamt.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

That those buildings, things could collapse.

[Rachel Yucatel]

So when, when that rumbling happened and you were down there and then this blackness happened. Did in your head, were you like the building came down or you didn't know?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Because I was running for my life. Because I don't know if you, if you saw it, but this, this, this cloud of dirt and dust and the building.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Was chasing me.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And it, it came over me and.

[Rachel Yucatel]

But you knew what it was then. You knew.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, I, I knew and I knew I was in big, big trouble.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And I was in, in survival mode.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

But I also have to say that I, I, I, I knew I was alive.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And I was fairly uninjured.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And I thought there must be a million dead people behind me. Not. I, I mean, look, it's, it's an unacceptable thing to, to, to say it was only.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah. You know, but I know what you mean.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

But I, I thought there would be, be 50,000, 50,000, 100,000 dead people. I couldn't imagine.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

There wouldn't be.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And it was incredible how many people did make it out and how many stories there were.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

It's the greatest rescue operation of all time.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Of the firemen that made it upstairs and were getting people down talking.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

This is the greatest rescue operation ever.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And. And it's, it's the cops and the firemen and the Port Authority. They did it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And yes, they paid a breathtaking toll, but they did it. They did it. They did it. They really saved a lot of people. And sadly, I know that you've suffered a huge loss and so did so many people, but I still sit here saying it's the greatest rescue operation of all time.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah, no, I agree. And it is interesting because it's like you were talking about before. I feel a kinship with, you know, I can walk by someone and if you hear them telling their story about who they lost on September 11th or they hear me talk about it, it's a closeness you just can't express with anybody else.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

No doubt. I know so many people whose lives have, have long been rebuilt, but, but who are deeply scarred.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Oh yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

By what you. Which I suspect you might be.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Well, my life is much different now. And it always, you know, we can all be healed to a certain extent. It's in my bones. Just talking about it will, you know, make me very emotional because as a 26 year old girl, it was terrible.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Of course, I mean, but it's, it. I hope that it's terrible to talk about for you now because. And then think about my role in the FDNY hurts me. It hurts me and 340. And we still talk to those families all the time. They come to events, we see them, we nurture them.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And the upsetness isn't, the tears isn't about necessarily my loss. It's about that feeling that a lot of people really just don't understand that what happened that day was so terrible.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I agree with you.

[Rachel Yucatel]

It was unexplainable. And you know, you hear about these things that happen all the time or you hear what happens when like buildings get blown up or people die. And unless you're in it, you know, you can watch it on the news and it's terrible to watch when it really affects your life. You can never recover from that.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Part of what shook me so the other night on Park Avenue was that it was the first time, I think that I felt some of the things I felt.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

On September 11, 2001, I just, you know, we initially didn't know how many shooters there were at the beginning. There was a report of multiple shooters in the building And I just thought, oh my God, here we go again. Right on my watch.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Are you kidding me?

[Rachel Yucatel]

Do you remember the building that collapsed a couple years ago in Miami in the middle of the apartment building?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah. And that had nothing to do with terrorism. But I remember watching the news of 24 hour cycle of where are these people? Are we going to recover? And it sent me back into remembering what that was like and, and listening to the reporters talk to the family members that were standing outside waiting and saying, oh, I know that they must be down there somewhere. And that false sense of hope that you really have, and it really brought me back. And I had a daughter now. Right. And my daughter's watching it with me and I'm trying to explain to her this is what I went through. I sat there and I believed and hoped maybe he would be found somewhere, maybe he would. There would be someone who remembered what happened. Because that not knowing of that person's last moments is just. Was the worst thing for me.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I think being a parent also does factor into all this and what we want for our children and the life we want our children to have, at least for me, does play a role in this. And I know that I think about it a lot in terms of the work I'm doing now and trying to leave the place better than it was when I found it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Well, okay, so speaking of that, since 9 11, how has the FDNY changed, like operationally? Preparedness?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah, I mean it's, it's a really ultra modern, sophisticated, all hazards public safety agency. It's not just a fire department anymore. And so it's, it's really state of the art, including that we have a counterterrorism center within the fire department.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Thinking about, about preparedness and attacks of all types and, and, and just the training, the equipment, the preparation, the thoughtfulness that we go through every day practically, is really, is really something I think all New Yorkers should be very proud of.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

We learned lot. A, a lot from September 11th. Mistakes were made.

[Rachel Yucatel]

If it happened again today.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yucatel]

What would be different? What would you have changed? What, what are you guys prepared for now?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Remembering that I'm not a firefighter and I'm not an EMT or a paramedic. The, the staff of chiefs that I have working with me today are so keen to what happened and the lessons learned and so many incidents. You know, as recently as the wildfires in California, I sent a delegation of chiefs out to LA to learn. I mean, we send fire department executives all over the World thanks to our FDNY foundation to study and learn about what's happening. And you know, we, we're not going to have forest fires the way California does, but last summer we, we had some very significant brush fires in, in, in Prospect park, in, in Inwood park, in upper Manhattan. I mean, very significant. And so we, we, we have to learn and adapt. And even, even with that, you know, the bunker gear that our firefighters wear is, is structural fire bunker gear. You know, if when we're in the woods fighting a brush fire in a park, maybe we shouldn't be in 80 pounds of bunker gear. Maybe we shouldn't use the type of hoses we use to bring up into high rise buildings to fight forest fires. How about apparatus? You know, we need smaller, more nimble apparatus to get into park parks where fire trucks just can't drive around.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

You know, unless it's Central park, we can stay on the main road, but as you get through into, into the, into some of the areas, it's complicated. And so, and there are not a lot of fire hydrants in these parks. And so we've gotta, we've got to bring water to it. So, so everything has changed. Everything has changed. But we will never forget. And that's the key. Everything is modern, sophisticated, lots and lots of training, but everything we do, every single day, we remember those who came before us and who made the ultimate sacrifice.

[Rachel Yucatel]

And I assume when you join the fire department you have to take some sort of an oath. And do you think just as much these kids or men or women are all ready to step into that fire or that major crisis if it happens again?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Absolutely. And you saw it the other, you know, an active shooter in a high rise building. You've got firefighters, EMTs and paramedics in full ballistic flak jackets saying, let me in there, I want to get in there.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right. I love that. Okay, so last two questions. If you could speak directly to the families of those who were lost on 911 or to the next generation of firefighters, what would you, you say?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Well, those are, those are two different communities really. And, and I do speak to, I do speak to them and, and I tell them that they are not forgotten and that there's a, in our fire academy on Randall's island, which is amazing place. The picture of every single person who died on 911 from FDNY is on, on the wall and our probies walk by that all the time and they know it and they salute it and they honor it, as do I. When I come to the Academy. I look at that wall almost every time, and it's a little out of the way. And I go out of the way because everything that I do as the New York City Fire Commissioner, I do in their honor.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Right.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

As for the future, look, the future is very bright in the FDNY because of the tradition, because of the culture, because of the, the, the job itself. You know, there is, it is a calling to run into a burning building.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

When people are running out.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

And, and there's a, there's a special type of person. Person that comes down that pole and jumps on that fire truck. And there's a very special person who rides in that ambulance and, and, and meets you on your darkest day, in your worst moment, when you're sick, when you're, when you're not able to move on your own. And I'm just honored to work side by side with these people.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah. This episode's going to come out on September 11th or the day before. So as we mark another anniversary, what is one thing you hope listeners carry from them, from this conversation or this day that they'll be going through?

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Look, you know, we take September 11th. It's more than a, it's more than an anniversary. It's, it's, it's, it's a day of reflection for us. It's, it's a, a day that we remember some, some iconic people who worked in fdny. Really. You know, even, even our, our fire department chaplain was killed that morning. It's, it's a, it's a day that, that, that for the next hundred years, you hear my fire engines.

[Rachel Yucatel]

The, the day like a lullaby to you.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I love it. It's like music, right? September 11th is, is special beyond words. And I hope and this is the message that we honor that day in a way that is meaningful to those who are impacted by it.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Yeah. Well, it's been such an honor to get to know you, Commissioner. I really appreciate you. I appreciate you being so open and honest and I won't forget your story and I hope you have an easy day.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

Thank you.

[Rachel Yucatel]

September 11th.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

[Rachel Yucatel]

Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Ukatelle. Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five star rating and review. You can support the show by joining our [e-mail] misunderstanding with Rachel Yukatel. Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out? Email [e-mail] that's spelled M I S S. Understood. Thank you so much and I'll see you next time. Corporate megastores are spending millions lobbying D.C. politicians on one sided policies that send small businesses tumbling. They want to enact harmful credit card mandates that take resources away from your local credit union and can make community bank leaving Main street businesses with less access to credit, making it harder for your family to pay for everyday goods like gas and groceries. Tell Congress to guard your card and oppose the Durbin Marshall credit card mandates.

[Commissioner Robert Tucker]

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