Maddie Kowalski & Going Viral Against Your Will | Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel #358

Summary

Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel — Episode #358
Guest: Maddie Kowalski
Air Date: February 21, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Rachel Uchitel sits down with Maddie Kowalski, a University of Florida student whose life was turned upside down after a private, nonconsensual video of her was leaked and went viral. The episode explores Maddie’s lived reality in the wake of viral humiliation, victim blaming, and the misconception surrounding her story. Rachel creates space for Maddie to clarify what actually happened, to debunk damaging narratives, and to share how she’s coping under relentless public scrutiny.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Maddie’s Background

• Jacksonville native: Grew up by the beach, “Pretty normal childhood.” (03:03)
• College experience: Florida was a practical choice (“free tuition… an hour and 45 minutes from where I’m from” — 04:15).
• College life: Lived with roommates, joined a sorority, described the culture as mixed and “50/50” supportive and difficult (05:53).
• Personal challenges: Endured a tough breakup prior to the incident but felt like she was on stable ground with new friends at the start of sophomore year (08:42).

The Night Everything Changed

• Initial clue: First saw rumors about herself on Yik Yak, the anonymous college gossip app (09:35).
• Spread to other platforms: Realized the scope when friends alerted her to content on X (formerly Twitter), where her name started trending (12:34).
• Nature of the viral content: Explicit videos of Maddie, involving sexual acts without her consent, rapidly circulated across platforms, accompanied by hostile memes and AI edits (13:15).

“I'm watching my name start trending, and I'm just watching all the comments flood in and people re-uploading it, like, so quickly… I can't stop this. This is something I cannot just, you know, take down and it’s done. It’s everywhere.” — Maddie (14:34)

Handling the Immediate Fallout

• Isolation & Panic: Maddie describes “freaking out,” initially too afraid to call her parents, especially as trolls were contacting and harassing them (15:13).
• Family Harassment: Her father’s LinkedIn was exposed, her brother pulled from school, the family receiving prank calls (33:48).
• School impact: “I withdrew from all my classes last semester…” — Maddie (32:59).

Legal & Social Dimensions

• Consent and legality: Maddie clarifies that she was “under the influence,” and thus could not legally consent—“and I definitely did not consent to posting.” (18:07)
• Crime vs. Victim-Shaming: Rachel points out public confusion—“The only reason it got taken down…was because X ends up blocking it because it was illegal. Correct.” (16:25)
• Community response: Maddie faced stigma and isolation on campus—“People at school are like, you need to stay away from her. Like, she’s trying to get people in trouble… Anything you say, she’s going to send you to jail.” (18:54)

“People are, like, saying I should be locked up and all of these things. I'm like, well, I didn't commit a crime. These people… committed a crime.” — Maddie (18:38)

Rumors, Misconceptions, and Victim-Blaming

• False rumors: Addressed damaging stories that she “did it for drugs” or was “a prostitute”—all untrue (22:04).
• Victim-blaming: Online comments accused her of “asking for it” by going out, drinking, or being flirtatious.
• Clarification: Maddie explains there were two separate nights, different groups (“the ones from the main video, I didn’t even know them. Literally picked me up off the side of the road.” — 29:38).

“I mean, I didn’t ask to be posted... Like, this is not... every little girl’s dream is to, like, be now, like, on a podcast, talking about the fact that my body got leaked.” — Maddie (28:15)

Emotional and Social Aftermath

• Struggle with daily life: “Every single day, it’s posted somewhere else… I just can’t, you know, pay for people to be taking this down for the rest of my life.” (21:00)
• Mental health: Isolated, anxious, and struggled with suicidal thoughts — roommates alerted parents to her well-being (34:16).
• Reluctance to engage with fame: Opportunities (from influencers, streamers) arise, but Maddie, not “mentally” ready, declines (51:20).

Shame, Guilt, and Self-Reflection

• Guilt related to family: Most hurtful comments are about her family—“people tell me they would laugh if I killed myself… when they bring my family into it, that’s when it really hurts.” (55:40)
• Relationship with family: Supportive, but emotional strain and guilt persist (56:16).
• Life lessons and agency: Maddie acknowledges mistakes (“drinking underage, talking to strangers… yes, I made mistakes, but nothing warrants this.” —53:10).

Hope, Outlook, & Messages to Listeners

• Justice and future: Unsure what justice looks like, focused on daily survival — “I have no idea. Like, I genuinely, like, dude. I mean, I didn’t think I was gonna, like, survive this.” (50:51)
• Helping others: Wants her story to help others facing revenge porn — “Anyone who even has any kind of revenge porn or whatever happen… is probably gonna go to my page. That’s why I want my posts to [be supportive].” (41:46)
• What’s misunderstood?: The lack of humanity in how she’s treated online—“People don’t even think I’m a person… Everybody’s living life for the first time. Like, I’m 19… please, like I just need grace, you know?” (58:25)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On viral exposure:
  “Being the subject of so much scrutiny online for something I didn’t consent to… I have a constant state of anxiety. I just sit there and refresh Twitter over and over and over.” — Maddie (54:55)

• On public blame and shame:
  “People will say, ‘I feel sorry for Maddie, but she asked for it.’ …This is not every little girl’s dream—to be, now, on a podcast, talking about the fact that my body got leaked.” — Maddie (28:15)

• On misconceptions and rumors:
  “Everyone says I was like a prostitute… apparently I had sex for drugs, but I did not.” — Maddie (22:23)

• On the need for compassion:
  “It’s shocking to me that anyone would take the side of anything but compassion for all parties around.” — Rachel (17:18)

• On lasting impact:
  “Most people in my generation have seen the video… every person I meet is gonna… have certain assumptions about me.” — Maddie (21:00)

---

Important Timestamps

• [03:03] Maddie shares about her upbringing in Jacksonville, family, and high school experience
• [04:15] Decision to attend the University of Florida and college life
• [09:35] Reading rumors on Yik Yak; initial confusion about what was happening
• [12:34] Discovery of the viral video on X/Twitter and public identification
• [13:41] Description of the video content and initial reaction
• [18:07] Clarification about intoxication, consent, and legal aspects
• [21:00] Long-term effects, public visibility, and judgment
• [22:04] Debunking prostitution/drugs rumors
• [32:59] Withdrew from all university classes as fallout spreads
• [34:48] Parents intervene, seeing the extent of Maddie’s struggles
• [38:38] Experiences with public encounters and unwanted attention on campus
• [41:46] Hopes her story can help others dealing with revenge porn
• [50:51] “Day by day, I’m here…”
• [54:55] Maddie describes the psychological toll of being internet-famous against her will
• [58:25] Maddie’s plea: “Please, like I just need grace, you know?”

---

Final Thoughts

Rachel concludes by reinforcing support, recognizing Maddie’s resilience, and reminding listeners that no one is defined by a single moment of public shame. Maddie’s candor invites empathy and serves as a vital counter-narrative to the cruelty and misinformation still rampant online regarding viral victimization and consent.

---

This episode powerfully captures what it means to go viral against your will—from the personal, legal, and emotional angles. It’s an honest and raw testimonial on victim-blaming, digital harm, and the hope for compassion and better understanding.

Transcript

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read)]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. Last year, I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself. When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere. Living a busy life, navigating a long distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather, Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone. Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code SPACE80 at talk.

[Grainger Advertiser]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Today's guest is Maddie Kowalski. If you were anywhere near social media late last year, you probably saw her name. Maddie is a University of Florida student whose private video was shared online without her consent. Within hours, it spread across platforms, was reposted, dissected, judged, and turned into viral entertainment by millions of strangers. And this is her story.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Sam.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Maddie, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Thanks for having me. I'm okay. How are you?

[Rachel Yukatel]

I'm good. You've had a long day. You had to drive from school this morning, like five hours with your friend. How are you feeling? This is the first time you're like having a long conversation with somebody that's not a lawyer or in your family.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Exactly. I'm nervous, but it's okay.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Well, don't be nervous.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I had a long car ride to think about it, so.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Good. So in the last couple months, a lot has been said about you. A lot of people don't even know this story, so I want to just have a conversation to let people know who you are. Until this event that we're, you know, that you've become sort of infamous for. So tell me about where you grew up, your childhood, your parents, you know, that kind of thing.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, I'm from Jacksonville, Florida. I moved around a lot, like, as a kid, but that's where I ended up for, like, middle school, high school, all that. I have a little brother, and then it's just my parents and my little brother. My grandparents live close by, so we see them a lot. Grew up by the beach. Pretty normal childhood.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And how was high school for you?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, I was kind of a loser in high school, but apart from that, I mean, I was having. I had a great time in high school.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, and. And you decided to go to Gainesville, and what do you study?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Well, it's kind of complicated. I was a theater major. I originally wanted to be an actress, but after this situation, I just don't know if that's, like, possible. So I'm doing, like, media management now as my major so that I can do that online.

[Rachel Yukatel]

But did you actually have to switch majors?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Oh, wow.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. And are you. So, okay, so you're a sophomore now. Talk to me about school the first year. Did you love it? Why Gainesville?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, Gainesville because, I mean, Florida's the best school in Florida.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

And it's free tuition for whoever has, like, a certain, like, grade point average stuff.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, that's from Florida. So I was able to go for, like, free tuition, so I knew I wanted to stay in state. And then Gainesville's, like, really close. It's like an hour and 45 minutes from where I'm from, so I can kind of, like, go home when I want to, and, like, it's a lot easier for my family to come visit, so that was a big part of it. Also just doing tours. I really liked the campus.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Did you know anyone going there?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, there was, like, 60 kids from my high school, I think. Oh, wow.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. So your first year, did you have roommates? Were you in dorm? How'd that work?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I was in a dorm. I had two roommates. That was great. I like. I like living with other people.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And how was your first year? Did you rush a sorority?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I was in a sorority.

[Rachel Yukatel]

How was rush?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Rush was. I mean, the thing is, I feel like, compared to my friends at other SEC schools, I feel like Florida is, like, the least, like, SEC school of all of the SEC schools when it comes to rush, so it wasn't, like, as crazy as people make it out to be. But it was definitely, like, stressful.

[Rachel Yukatel]

But, like, I remember even when I went to college, you know, rushing a fraternity or sorority was, like, a whole thing. First of all, I was really close with a lot of the guys, so I was there for a lot of their rush. They were put through some of the most terrible things. They had to be drunk the whole time. It was like they had to physically get hurt. Like, it was pretty terrible. What is it like to rush a sorority?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Not like that at all. Like, sororities don't really, like, haze like that. It's more really just the fraternities. I think there's been, like, two incidents of, like, hazing and sororities within the past, like, 10 years at Florida. So they got in trouble for that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it. And what have you found with the girls? Are they, like, older sisters or. Like, how does that work?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, it's just. It's hard to, like, generalize, like, a group of women, like, based on, like, you know, whatever. But I'd say, like, it's very. Like, for me, my sorority, to me, was very 50 50. Like, half the girls were, like, amazing, and I love them. And the other half, like, maybe not so much. Got it.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So you guys didn't all have to be nice to each other just because

[Maddie Kowalski]

you all were in the store.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay.

[Maddie Kowalski]

No.

[Rachel Yukatel]

That's interesting.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And then did you have a goal to live in the house? Like, was there a house? Do they have something like that?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I would not want to live in the house. I, like. Well, I knew after, like, living in a room with two other people, like, I'm a messy person, and I know. I, like, I knew I needed my own room. Right. And in the sorority house, you have to share a room, so I knew I didn't want to do that. And also, just, like, like, there's a lot of rules in the sorority house. Like, you can't, like, even have, like, your guy friends over, like, and stuff like that. So it's like. I don't know. It's weird.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah. Okay, so in high school or your freshman year, did you have a boyfriend?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yes. Yeah, I had a couple boyfriends in high school, and then. I mean, none of those really, like, mattered. And then I did have a boyfriend last year. Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. And how did that go?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, we dated for, like, four months or we were together for, like, four months. I, um. I think I loved him. I don't know. I mean, looking back, who knows? But.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah. Did you have a rough breakup or.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, for me, it was rough. He broke up with me, so. Okay. I was definitely a little bit shaken up after that. That was, like, the first time I really was serious about someone. So it was, like, right before my birthday, too, and, like, he sent me, like, my birthday gift still. And, like, like, this note, and I was like. I was just bawling my eyes.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Is that how he broke up with you? In a note?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Wait, no.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Oh, okay.

[Maddie Kowalski]

He broke up with me on FaceTime, but.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Oh, okay.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Still.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Geez. And you never saw him again?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Well, no, I see him at school and, like, terrible. Because I want to go up to him and be like, hey.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right.

[Maddie Kowalski]

But it's not a good idea.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Oh, I'm sorry. Why did he break up with you?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I don't know. I think it was just, like, the stress of, like, he, like, had some. I got. I think he just was really stressed with, you know, stuff with his, like, in his personal life and, like, with school and everything. And I think he just didn't have, like, the time to, like, give me what I needed.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it. I didn't know if.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

You know, it was another girl or situation.

[Maddie Kowalski]

No.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, well, that's good. That's easier to get through, I guess. Well, so are you over it now? I mean, listen, adults will go through breakups, and it takes years to get over it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, I'd, like, say so. I feel like. I don't know when the situation happened, like, I really wanted to, like, I wanted him to, like, reach out. But of course, like, he wasn't going to. Like, why would he reach out? So. Yeah. But I'd say I'm mostly over it.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So last year, did you make some really good friends that you took into your sophomore year? Like, you started school feeling good? I'm trying to set the stage.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I started school. Yeah. I started like this. Like, the semester. Everything happened, like. So last semester, the fall semester, like, really good. Like, I had all my friends from last year, and then I was in Gainesville over the summer, too, so I made a lot of friends doing summer school. Got it. And so I felt good, like, new apartment with my friends.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Same girls as last year?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, no, no. I room with girls now, like, that were in my sorority. Got it.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And are you rooming now with the same girls you were rooming with last semester?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, this semester?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yes. Okay, good. So, all right, let's talk about. So you're a sophomore, and you started your sophomore year. Everything was fine, and everything's going well. And you're a sophomore in college. Like, you're having Fun. You're going to school during the week and having fun on the weekends or whatever. Where were you when you woke up and learned that people were talking about you?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, I was like, what? I really, like, I saw some, like, things on Yik Yak, but I didn't really know what was going on. But when I, like, really explained what Yik Yak is. Yeah. So Yik Yak. I guess people probably don't know what that is. It's like this forum for college kids. You need, like, a college email to sign up. So, like, it's all kids from the college.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Just the college itself.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Just whatever college.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay.

[Maddie Kowalski]

So there's like, University of Florida. Yik Yak. Florida State, Yik Yak. So. And you can comment, like, whatever. Post anything you want anonymously.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

So, like, people were saying, like, MK Leak. Like, you can't say names. They say, like, first and last initials. They're like, MK Leaks. Like, these videos are crazy. And I'm like, what's going on?

[Rachel Yukatel]

And is that something that you followed a lot, this Yik Yak thing? Like, everyone reads it like, it's Facebook or something.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, if something, like, happens on your gag, like, people will talk about it.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it. And usually the scandals are what kind of things?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, there was, like, a frat kid that I guess had, like, an only fans. Like, things like that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Oh, it's always like, so just gossip.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, just gossip.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay.

[Maddie Kowalski]

It's stuff like that. So it's like. Yeah. Like, it's not like anything. Like, sometimes also, like, I feel like the stuff on there is fake, so I didn't know if it, like, for sure was something like that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. So you wake up and. And does somebody alert you to it or.

[Maddie Kowalski]

This happened, like, at night. So it was a Sunday night. So, yeah. My friends started calling. They're like, you're all over Yik Yaks. I'm reading the Yik Yaks. I was.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And is it your name? They're saying your name. Or they're. They're like a girl.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Mk. Yeah. Or they're saying, like, that redhead.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Got my sorority. Like, it's very obviously me. So I. I, like, went back to. I, like, made it to my apartment. I was with friends, but I went to my apartment. And then that's when I was, like, really freaking out because it's like, everybody's talking about this on Yik Yak.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And can you tell our listeners, like, what was the comment? What were they saying?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, I mean, I Feel like I've, like, blocked out that night so much from my memory that, like, I couldn't even. But it's like. I mean, like, it was, like, memes. I remember it was people just, like, saying I was disgusting. Like, being like, ew, that's so gross. Or like, whatever. Like, anything you can think of. Like, there was so many.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So they were talking about you, but were they talking about what they saw? Like, were they saying, this girl, my sorority, there's a video going around?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, it wasn't even, like, news. Like, if you didn't know what the heck was going on, you would have no idea. Like, I had no idea what's going on. They're like, has anyone else seen the MK videos? They're, like, so gross and crazy. And I'm like, what videos are we talking about?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right, guys?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, someone.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So you didn't know what they were talking about, and it was kind of vague, but you knew it was about you and people were talking badly about you.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, got it.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, so at what point did you kind of get clued into what they were talking about?

[Maddie Kowalski]

When it got posted on Twitter.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, so explain to people.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I guess.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, explain to people who are listening that don't know the story. Can you a little bit about how it unfolded? So you said you learned about it on Sunday, and then what, a couple days later something came out?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, it was like, that night on Sunday, like, someone posted a gik gak and was like, the videos are on Twitter. Got it. I said, where can I see the videos? And somebody said, the videos are on, like, X. So I went on X, I searched my name, and then they had your

[Rachel Yukatel]

name on there, too.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, every single thing that was posted about me on X had my name. And that's why that, like, later that night, I became, like, the number one trending topic in the country on X. Because everyone was posting with my name.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

But yeah, so I like.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And on X. Just to clarify, was it commentary or. It was literally just the videos and they were being replayed by people.

[Maddie Kowalski]

So, like, the first thing was, like, the video, and it was like. But they would say captions, too. Like, disrespectful captions. Like, sure. Like crazy things.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And people just kept reposting the video and putting their own captions.

[Maddie Kowalski]

They would save it. And then, like, not like a repost. Yeah, per se. But, like, they would, like, download it themselves and then upload it. So everyone was uploading this video, like, really, really quickly. And then people were making memes about it. And then, like, I think it was, like, the next day, that was when people started doing commentary on, like, TikTok and Instagram Reels and, like, making AI edits and things. Like, it was just. Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And I know it's upsetting to talk about, but for people that are listening, can you. Can you sort of describe what was on the video a little bit for people? Because people have not seen it. Was.

[Maddie Kowalski]

It was you with men, and there was, like, sexual acts depicted, and I was naked in the videos.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it. And when you saw these videos for the first time, what did you think?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, I feel like when, like, something, like, crazy happens, like, and, like, traumatic like that. Like, when you see something like that, like, I feel like I almost, like, blacked out. Like, I feel like I almost, like, genuinely couldn't even tell you exactly what I thought, but I know that it was, like, just, like, a wave of, like, something like. And I, like, just, like, yeah, I was freaking out.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Do you think you were freaking out because that it was you online, or do you think you were freaking out because you were like, I don't remember. When was that? Like, I don't remember it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Both. Like, I knew generally, I think, like, when it was, but I didn't remember, like, one of the acts in the video, and I just was like, oh, my gosh. Like, it felt like I was, like, watching it for the first time, and so. But also, yeah, I'm like, oh, my gosh. I'm watching the views go up and up and up. And, like, I think the original video got, like, 5 million views or something. So I'm like, I'm watching that, and I'm watching my name start trending, and I'm just watching all the comments flood in and people re uploading it, like, so quickly, and it's like, what do you even do? Like, I can't stop this. This is something I cannot just, you know, taken down and it's done. It's everywhere.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So what did you do? I mean, did you call someone at your school? Did you call your parents?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I didn't want to call my parents because I was too scared. Because at this point, people were, like, on Twitter were saying that they called my parents.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah. Why? I. I heard you say that, and I didn't understand. Why would they call your parents?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, I.

[Rachel Yukatel]

To be mean. I mean, I know you said somebody had taped a conversation with them.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

What were they talking about with your parents?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I can't bring myself to listen to that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I have no idea what they said, other people have said it was something about like saying that they did things to me and gave me STDs or something like crazy, crazy things. I can't. Like, I physically.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So was someone, as a joke, calling your parents.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yes. And then posting it for why?

[Rachel Yukatel]

For what reason?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I couldn't tell you. I mean, I would never do that. I could do that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

What's interesting about this is like as this is unfolding in the days after your name becomes a top trending conversation piece or video on X and people then instead of taking your side or saying, you know, the only reason it got taken down is what I'm trying to get to is not because somebody felt bad about it, but it was because X ends up blocking it because it was illegal. Correct.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. I mean, the thing is, what sucks about this is it's not like we can just report every single thing. So eventually, when I did have the courage, when I did have the courage to talk to my parents, they were able to like hire the right people to work and get it taken down and get in contact with X and do all those things that we just didn't have. We don't have time to there all day and do that. But like, without that resource, like, I don't know what we would have done.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, so it's an interesting thing because a lot of people will look at it and not really understand what's illegal or what is just wrong right out of the situation. Cause there's, I feel like there's a bunch of buckets here. Someone wants to blame you. And I mean, I've looked at the comments and the fact that people don't understand consent, that they don't understand right and wrong, that they don't understand. You know, it's shocking to me that people will show their full name on their Instagram and say things that they should clearly be fired from a company for writing or their wife should be upset or as a female writing too, like, and me too, a lot of people were fired for a lot less, you know what I mean? Just for even commenting in the way or saying such nasty things. So it's shocking to me that anyone would take the side of anything but compassion for all parties around for like everything going on.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I agree.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And so I think it's important to talk about that for a second. So the things in the videos, you know, you could tell were not necessarily consensual because you were drunk in the videos, correct?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I was under the influence. So I. Yeah, I mean, legally, like, and I'M not even going to say my own opinion on whether or not, like, legally I was not able to consent to the acts or to, you know, being recorded. And, like, I definitely did not consent to posting.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Like, Right.

[Maddie Kowalski]

The people who posted that knew my first and last name. They knew I wouldn't want that posted.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right.

[Maddie Kowalski]

They posted that to, like, launch this attack.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And that's illegal.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Which is illegal. Yeah. That's what people don't understand because people are, like, saying I should be locked up and all of these things. I'm like, well, I didn't commit a crime.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

These people.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Well, why would you be locked up? Well, that doesn't even make sense. People that are saying that are stupid.

[Maddie Kowalski]

But it's like, I mean, these people committed a crime. And I know I'm gonna. Like, people at school are like, you need to stay away from her. Like, she's trying to get people in trouble. Like, anything you say, like, she's gonna send you to jail. That's not how that works. I can't send every person that says something rude to jail or just like, why would I send my friends to jail? But people, like, don't want to be associated because they all think they're going to jail or something, or that I'm, like, pressing charges on everyone or suing everyone. And it's like, no, like. Like, these people committed a crime. Like, in the state of Florida. The state of Florida is gonna. Like, the police are going to do what they're going to do. Like, it's not. It has nothing to do with me.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right.

[Maddie Kowalski]

At the end of the day, the investigation has nothing to do with me.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, I just happen to be, like,

[Rachel Yukatel]

the victim, but I'm imagining that you don't want it to keep going anyways, because the more it's out there, the more you feel like people are looking at you. And as. I mean, you're. You're still a child, right? So, like, you're. How old are you now?

[Maddie Kowalski]

19.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So the fact that anyone doesn't see that, you know, you're. I would assume and correct me if I'm wrong, you just want it to go away. And. And. But you also want some sort of justice. And. But what does justice look like to you, do you think?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, I don't even know at this point. Like, I feel like my life is, like, so different and just so screwed up that, like, I just. Like, I don't even. Like, some days I just, like, don't even care. Like, it's like, well, I don't want

[Rachel Yukatel]

you to think it's screwed up, and I'll tell you why. There are plenty of people that do that, make mistakes or that are involved in something that shines a light on a mistake or something that they were involved with that they don't want. You know, you clearly had a night that you went through and that should have probably remained with the people, you know, involved as opposed to the whole world to see. Right. So I think that it's important to understand, like, people are trying to shame you for that, and it's not okay. And that's not gonna affect your life forever. It will because it lives on the Internet. Hopefully you guys can get a lot of it removed. But, you know, talk about your fear of how that is gonna follow you.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, I just. Every single day, it's posted somewhere else. I can't. We can't. I can't, you know, pay for people to be taking this down for the rest of my life. Like, that's just not something that's sustainable. Like, it's gonna. It's gonna be up forever. Like, anyone in my. Most people in my generation have seen the video. Anyone else that hasn't seen the video can go see it because somebody's gonna say something, and then. You know what I mean? Like, I'll never be able to meet people or interact with people normally. Like, every person I meet is gonna, like, have a certain connotation, like. Or, like, certain assumptions about me because. Right.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Or make a judgment. Yeah. So can we talk about some of the misconceptions, though? Because I think a lot of people don't understand the facts. And I heard you saying that a couple times in the post that you made recently, that people don't have the facts correct.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. And there's a lot of things I just can't say because I really am trying to protect, like, what the police are doing. I'm very grateful for them. So I kind of, like, want to let them do their thing.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Can you clarify any of the things? Like, I saw you post some stuff and saying this did not happen or this is not true.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Oh, yeah. There was a rumor that I. That it was in exchange for drugs. I wasn't doing drugs, nor was I doing things in exchange for drugs. And people just can't seem to get it out of their head that I did it for drugs. No matter how many times I say it. Like, do you want me to pee in a cup? Like, I. Dude. So it's like.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So is.

[Maddie Kowalski]

That's really frustrating. Yeah. But everybody says that I was like a prostitute and that's why people say I should go to jail because I think I'm some sort of prostitute because apparently I had sex for drugs, but I did not.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Well, and I'm assuming in the video though it is evident that you are not in your complete mind or not?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, I would say so, but maybe somebody viewing like, I don't know,

[Care.com Advertiser]

what if I It's a strange shift, isn't it? The parent who raised you needs some help and you want to be there. With care.com, you don't have to do it alone. Whether you're clear on the kind of care your aging loved one needs or still figuring it out, we've got support Find background Checked in home senior caregivers for anything from companionship to dementia care. Or browse senior living communities. Read reviews, even schedule a tourist. Plus access to safety checks to help with your peace of mind. Still not sure what's best? Our senior Care advisors, who are all master's level social workers can help you build a plan. For a limited time, use the code listen20 for 20% off your initial care.com subscription. That's listen20 all one word good for 20% off. Start your senior care journey with confidence.

[IQ Bar Advertiser]

This podcast is sponsored by IQ Bar. I've got good news and bad news. Here's the bad news. Most protein bars are packed with sugar and unpronounceable ingredients. The good news? There's a better option. I'm Will and I created IQ Bar Plant Protein Bars to empower doers like you with clean, delicious, low sugar brain and body fuel. IQ bars are packed with 12 grams of protein, brain nutrients like magnesium and Lion's Mane and Zero Weird Stuff. And right now you can get 20% off all IQ Bar products plus free shipping. Try our delicious IQ Bar Sampler Pack with seven plant protein bars, four hydration mixes and four enhanced coffee sticks. Clean ingredients, amazing taste and you'll love how you feel. Refuel smarter, hydrate harder, Caffeinate larger with IQ Bar go to eatiqbar.com and enter code BAR20 to get 20% off all IQ Bar products plus free shipping. Again, go to eatiqbar.comand enter code BAR20.

[Grainger Advertiser]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-Grainger clickgrainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

Told you that the idea that you only get parasites when you travel to some exotic country is flat wrong. Millions of Americans carry parasites right now, often without symptoms. For example, it's estimated that millions in

[Rachel Yukatel]

the United States have been exposed to

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

Toxocera, a parasitic worm, yet most never even know it. Parasites do not need a plane ticket. They can enter through tap water, sushi, undercooked foods, or contaminated produce. Some strains live in all stages. Eggs, larva, adults hidden in your gut, releasing toxins that sabotage your energy and digestion. That's why I'm excited about parafi. Kim Roger Day Full spectrum parasite cleanse. The kit works by clearing parasites, worms, candida and heavy metals, targeting parasites in all life stages, supporting gut health, detox pathways and toxin removal. It's taken orally daily for 30 days with precise dosing.

[Rachel Yukatel]

I'm actually doing it myself right now.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

I started with the lymph cleanse, then I'm doing the parafi.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Want to dive deep?

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

I did a full interview with Kim Rogers, the worm queen herself, where we expose all the myths, understand the facts, and show how to protect your body. Listen to that episode if you haven't already. Meanwhile, go to rogershood.com and use the code Rachel to get 10% off of your order. That's R A C H e L for 10% off. Give it a try. Maybe your body's missing link is hiding inside. Let's do this together. Again, it's rogershood.com r o g e r s h-o o d.com and use the code Rachel for 10% off.

[Rachel Yukatel]

If you've ever been through a divorce

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

or you're in one right now, you already know it's not just emotional, it's chaotic. It's paperwork, deadlines, financial disclosures, custody schedules, legal filings.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And half the time you don't even

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

know what you're supposed to be tracking until it's too late. That's why I want to tell you about Splitify. It's an AI powered divorce operating system designed to turn divorce from drama into data while saving you time, money. Splitify helps you organize all of your documents, evidence, custody details, communication, finances, everything into one secure platform. It can even help flag high conflict behavior, track custody schedules, map assets and debts, and generate court ready files so you're not walking into a legal battle completely unprepared. Whether you're Working with an attorney, going through a mediation, or doing it on your own, Splitify helps you stay organized, informed, and strategic. Because divorce is expensive enough without wasting time and money on confusion.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So if.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

If you want to protect yourself, protect your kids, and walk into this process with clarity and control, go to mysplitify.com use the code Rachel for 50% off your first three months. That's mysplitify. M y s p l I t I f I dot com promo code Rachel.

[Rachel Yukatel]

You know, from what I've watched a couple people. Well, a lot of people say is, I feel sorry for Maddie, but she asked for it. How do you feel when people are saying that?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, I didn't ask to be posted. The people who posted also knew exactly what they were doing. Like, it wasn't like, just, oh, like, oh, this is consensual. I'm gonna post this. You know, my first and last name. You probably go to school with me. Like, you know, you knew what this was gonna do. Like, I did not ask. I didn't ask for this. Like, this is not like every little girl's dream is to, like, be now. Like, on a podcast, talking about the fact that my body got leaked. Like, it's like, not like, trust me, Like.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And I think that, you know, there's two things that people are not really understanding. They're too different, but obviously happened around the same time and around the. Because of the same act. Right. So it was what happened in that night or over the course of two nights, you said.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Right.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Or two times, whatever. And then the fact that it was leaked. So I think a lot of the questions surrounds around the act of it. And I think that that's where people are getting confused. Right? Because I've noticed in a lot of people's comments, they would say things like, well, she deserved it. She asked for it. She went around and was flirtatious. But do you think as a child, I'm going to ask you, and then I'll give you the adult version, that because you're flirtatious or you dress a certain way or you're drinking because you're in college, that you. Do you really believe that you deserve any of the things not about it being posted, but about what happened on those nights that it happened?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No. And a lot of people say that I asked for it because they think I went back. It was. The two nights was different groups of people. The ones from the main video, I didn't even know them, literally picked me up off the side of the road. So it's like I just, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't. I don't think anyone deserves that at all.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So as an adult, I will tell you that I think I was saying this to you and your father on the phone, but my phone was really bad yesterday. Like, you are a female. You know, it's the same thing with, you know, no is no and non consent is not the same thing. Because if you are in a state of mind where you cannot say anything, it makes it more difficult to like clarify. But, you know, the bottom line is you can be who you are and then something could happen. You know, all of a sudden you could be on a date, you could be sexual with somebody. But when no is no, it means no. And if you get over the limit where you cannot, you don't remember what happened the next day, nothing that happens in that time is consensual. And I think what I, as an outsider have been witnessing still to this day, like you just posted something yesterday or whenever it was probably.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And it was odd for me to see people saying such comments that should get them in trouble and doesn't and makes it very clear that people do not understand what consent is. And on both things for what happened that evening and what happened in the posting.

[Maddie Kowalski]

And I just feel like I don't understand too, if somebody has that opinion, like, why they need to go and comment that like with their first and last name, like, why.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Well, let them dig their own ground.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Right. But you're that passionate that you want to. Really that, like, passionate about my story. Like, confident, you know, everything. Like, like I said, there's a lot of details that I can't speak about. But like people only know what they saw from like a 5 second clip. Like you don't know.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Anything.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right. So I guess the last part of wrapping up that whole conversation, I just like, do you have to run into these boys at school? Like, is there a fear that you will.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I also don't. No. I mean, I have a lot of people coming up to me and majority of them are. A majority have been pretty nice for the most part. But when like guys come up to me and are like, you know, I support you, whatever, or like ask for a picture or something. Like, it's like I don't know who posted the videos because it was all on fake accounts. Oh, on Twitter.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So we don't know who like that secret enemy is.

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, not until, you know, something would happen with the police investigation. So it's like it could be Anyone around me, and I could be literally, like, taking a picture with them because they said they're, like, a supporter.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

You know what I mean?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

It's the person who did this to me, so it's like. It's very, very weird.

[Rachel Yukatel]

But what about the boys that are in the video? Like, is there fear that you're gonna run into them? Like, have you spoken to any of them? Can you talk about that?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I don't know if I can talk about that, but the ones I know, not all of them are us students. I can say that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, so how has this made you feel? You know, ever since. It's been, what, three months?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, so you had to move home. Tell our listeners what happened to you after, like, how long did you stay at school? Did you go in hiding? Did you go to your classes?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I withdrew from all my classes.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Like, literally withdrew, or you just stopped going for, like, a week?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, like, I withdrew from all my classes last semester, which was annoying, because I. But anyways, so I withdrew from my classes last semester.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And then what made you feel you couldn't stay in school?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Because I didn't want to go to my. Like, I didn't want to do anything.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, the whole school knew. The whole school had seen my naked body. Like, I'm not. I'm not leaving my apartment, so. And then I didn't know what to do because I didn't want to go home because I was embarrassed because people were harassing my family, and I was.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, I saw you mention that. What were they doing to your family?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, the spam calls, prank calls, you know? Of course. Like, I assumed, like, our neighbors knew at this point. You know, all the high school kids know. Like, I assume, like, all my parents, friends know and all this. Like, I'm just so embarrassed of my dad's work.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right?

[Maddie Kowalski]

His LinkedIn got leaked. People were, like, posting his LinkedIn everywhere, so I'm guessing, like, his job knew.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And you're telling me that people had the audacity to call your family and just continue this on to harass you

[Maddie Kowalski]

and to harass them and to harass them who have nothing to do with anything. And they were, like, you know, posting pictures of my brother, things like that, so I just. I could not, like, face my family.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And in the meantime, what were they saying to you on the phone, though?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I wasn't talking to them on the phone. I wouldn't.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Oh, you wouldn't.

[Maddie Kowalski]

And then they showed up at my apartment because my roommates told them like, look, Maddie's not doing good.

[Rachel Yukatel]

How long after? So it started on a Sunday.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I think it was, like, two days after. They kept, like, asking to come. I was texting, like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, not answering the phone. And then my roommates, like, realized, like, I was, like, suicidal and, like, very anxious, very depressed, like, not doing okay. They're like, they can't handle that, you know? Yeah, they're a bunch of 19 year olds, so. Yeah, so they got my parents to come.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And how were your roommates. How were your roommates dealing with that?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I mean, it's hard. I mean, no one knows how to deal with that, of course. Like, how do you even, like, respond to that?

[Rachel Yukatel]

So were they going to their classes?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, but there was usually, like, somebody. I have four roommates. There was usually somebody, like, home with me. They were really good about, like, kind of telling everyone to, like, F off. Because a lot of people were, like, reaching out to them, but it wasn't like. It was like. It wasn't from a place really of concern. It seemed like it was a place of, like, nosiness.

[Rachel Yukatel]

They just wanted to gossip.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yes, exactly. And it's very obvious to tell. So they were kind of good at, like, defending me and stuff and telling people to stop that. Yeah, they were. They were really good about that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, and so your parents come and do they have your brother there, too?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, it was just. I think it was just my dad that came. Okay. Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And he just wanted to talk. Or he's like, you're coming home.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I, like, fight or flight. Literally, like, my windows open. I start running for my window. Like, my roommates are grabbing my arms. Like, total mess. Like, freaking out, crying, screaming. Like, like, horrible. Like, I could not look that man in the eyes. So that was. Yeah, that was really bad.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And how did that relationship change? Because I was on a phone call with you guys yesterday, and he seems like your biggest supporter.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I know, but you just don't, like, know how someone's, like, reaction is going to be to something like that. Yeah, like, and my dad has now seen those videos. Like, people have people sent him those videos. And we're calling him, like, saying these things and, like, you know, like, you just don't know how someone's gonna react to that. And people were, like, making posts saying, my parents, like, disowned me. And I was like, maybe they're gonna. You know.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read)]

So.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Because I think some parents would genuinely. So I just didn't know. Right. Like, what was gonna happen. And I just felt really embarrassed. And I felt really upset for him and for my mom and for my brother who had to get, like, pulled out of school because people were coming up to him, so.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And you didn't want to disappoint them?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And you felt like you already had?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah. So does he take you home at that point?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, I wouldn't go home.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. And did you end up talking to him or.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Not really, No. I kind of kicked him out, and then eventually I was able to talk to him, and then I.

[Rachel Yukatel]

You called him?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No, like, he. He was just hanging out in Gainesville. He got a hotel, so he was, like, staying around. And then finally I was like, okay. And then I. I drove home.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So you go home and you only recently came back right after the holiday?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. Okay.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So how long did you end up being home?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I was home for, like, all of November, December. And then, like, a lot of this month, I guess I came back, like, a week after school started.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, so. And now you sign up for online classes or for regular classes?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Online.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. Online. But you're living with your roommates?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

The same four?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yes.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. So how has been going back to campus been for you?

[Maddie Kowalski]

It's, like, ridiculous. Like, it's like I'm walking down the street, and it's people rolling their windows down and, like, screaming my name, honking their horns. It's, like, going into the store and it's like 50,000 people coming up to me. And, like, I don't mind when people come up and they're nice, but also, it's just, like. It can be very, like, overwhelming. Like, I don't. I don't mind that, though. But the problem is when it's, like, people, like, have come up and just, like, shoved, like, cameras in my face, like, shoving their phones in my face and, like, just taking pictures with me without asking. Like, I feel like I am fine with the people who come up and are like, like, I appreciated your story or whatever. Like, but it's like, when people are coming up and just, like, zooming in, like, yeah, yeah. Pictures of me, and I'm like, what's going on? Like, I can't even, like, go to Wawa and get a snack without someone taking my picture and putting it on,

[Rachel Yukatel]

like, Twitter, like, and just saying what? I saw her. She was here.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. Like, Maddie Kowalski spotted. Like, they. They're always, like, everything I do, I get my picture taken and they post it. Like, wow.

[Rachel Yukatel]

All right. So as someone who. I don't know how much you know about me, but as from somebody who's been through something similar where people will use you almost like a verb. Like, you did a Maddie Kowalski or spotted Maddie Kowalski. You know, I think, number one, people are gonna be jealous. Jealous because you have more fame. Doesn't matter how you got it right. You're a household name for some people. And you have to start understanding that if you internalize shame about that, you're never gonna get anywhere. So I think it's important for you to know, okay, what happened is in the past. You are not who that person is. And it's really important for you to be able to, like, use that for your decisions going forward. So, like, I'm not your parents, but I am a parent of a child. And, you know, as an adult figure to you, and as a female, I would say going forward, I hope this has taught you to be careful who your friends are, to be careful when you go out. You know, be careful what, you know, what drink you put down. Be careful how much you drink. Maybe even not drink for a while. Because you don't know who to trust.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Right?

[Rachel Yukatel]

You don't. I would assume that this is gonna affect your trust of men in general.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Oh, 100%.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And I don't know how this will make you have a boyfriend after, but I hope you pick someone who cherishes who you are, protects your sexuality. Like, you don't have to be some hot college sorority check, and, you know, make the decisions of, like, partying to be loved and cared for. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I hope that those are the lessons that you take from it, because that is so helpful, because you're going to school with girls who behave that way and get themselves into trouble. Or there are things going on that you've never heard of. Cause it hasn't made it on Twitter. But those things are happening in people's ecosystems, all over college and all over, you know, people's lives. You know, there's something that embarrasses them that somebody knows about, and they're threatening them with it or they're making fun of them with it. And the reason why other people do that is because they're not feeling good about themselves, and they do it to have something to make fun of. So I hope you know all of that and you take that into your future of, like, you know, you said when you sat down, like, I'm never gonna be an actress. Well, of course you can be an actress. You know, Julia Roberts and Angelina Jolie have plenty of terrible things in their background that no one talks about now, but if you, you know, really wanted to figure it out, you could google them from a long time ago. Everyone deserves a second chance. And you're 19. Like, who you are now is gonna be completely different from 5 years to 20 years to 40 years. You know what I'm saying? So I hope that people are saying to you, like, this isn't the end of your life and like, this is not how you're gonna be remembered. The only way though, that you can make it into somewhat of a positive is to like, learn from it and kind of, you know, hopefully help other people that are in the situation if they want to talk to you about it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, they're. I feel like because my situation was so public, like anyone who even like has any kind of like revenge porn or whatever happened to them is like probably gonna go to my page. Yeah. So that's why I want like my post to like.

[Grainger Advertiser]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know, having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift. And you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Pacific Source Health Plan Advertiser]

Jack Harndale was helping his daughter Emily lift an awkward dresser up a staircase when he slipped and fell backwards. A week later, Emily asked him how he was doing.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I'm good.

[Pacific Source Health Plan Advertiser]

Truth was, he wasn't good. Jack needed help. Then the darndest thing happened. Emily called Pacific Source my health plan. Jack learned that Pacific Source provides members with support beyond health care. In Jack's case, we got him in touch with the local food bank.

[Grainger Advertiser]

You guys do that?

[Pacific Source Health Plan Advertiser]

Yes, we do, Jack. Pacific Source health plan be helpful.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, well, because it's the only thing you can hope out of it, right? Because I mean, it's only been three months. You're still, by the way, you're still in the thick of it. You will be fine one day and. And like you'll be in the shower three months from now and I guarantee you you'll start crying. Cause that happened to me and I know that. And when people move on from it, you're gonna have other feelings too. Like, you know, that you don't feel like you're known for anything but that. So maybe that'll make you wanna act out and Be somebody similar to that because, you know, you feel like you got a lot of attention. So you just have to be careful in the phases of, like, this because somebody skyrocketing to notoriety like you. I'm sure it feels good when you get that positive attention, but that negative attention almost will override it, too.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Oh, 100%. Like, I. Like, I appreciate the positivity, but, like, I really don't even see the positivity because there's so much negativity.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

And, like, that's what, like, resonates with me. Like, I. The positive comments, like, in DMs, like, yeah, they help. Like, they're great. But, like, I feel like then I'll read one of those. Be like, aww. And then I'll read a negative one and then I'll, like,

[Rachel Yukatel]

think that that's all you can hear. Right. And so many people. This is important, too. So many people will want to be around you. You have to be very close to the people that you're close with and be very slow to open up your life to anyone else. Right now for, like, the rest of this semester, I'm promising you. So, like, so many people want to be part of the story. They are going to get close to you to act like your friend just so that they get you to tell things that you maybe haven't told people just so they can turn around and use it against you later. Maybe that's not their intention at the beginning, but the second you get into a fight, that'll be, you know, someone else will hear stories. So, you know, and some people will be asked about it and be like, oh, yeah, I know her. When you maybe have walked by them once.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So you just have to be so careful on who you trust, on who you tell things to. And unfortunately, that means you're gonna have to internalize a lot of stuff. Because my suggestion to you for maybe many years to come is to be very careful who you allow into your life.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. Which sucks, because, I mean, I'm just a very trusting person. Like, I want to trust everyone. Like, I. I feel like everyone's a good person and I want to be friends with everyone. But as I've learned in this situation, like, I mean, even just with a lot of people, like, abandoning me when this happened, like, they were never friends. And then people I've gotten close to since the situation, I have seemed really genuine. And then I've started to realize they just want to take pictures of me and post with me and do this and that and I'm like, but I don't want you to post me. And it's like, well, why can't I? And it's like, because I'm going through a lot right now, and I don't want that picture posted. So it's like, do you care more about saying you're friends with me, or do you care more about being friends with me?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right. And I know it's probably hard for you. Cause you're probably bubbly and fun and you're in college. Why shouldn't you make friends?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I. So social.

[Rachel Yukatel]

I get it. So I think it's just really important to protect yourself, especially through the rest of this semester. I feel like starting next year, it'll be easier for you. There'll be a new scandal at school that somebody will talk about. Somebody else will be on only fans, and they'll harass them for a while, you know, which. None of these things are good. But, like, at the. At the same time, the focus won't be only on you. The fact that people are still talking about it is what makes it difficult. And, like, you just came back to school. So that's why I think a lot of people are talking about it again. Right?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, but I mean, even for, like, events and stuff, like, I used to love to go to, like, Greek events and, like, tailgates and stuff. And, like, I can't go to any of that because there are. All the fraternities are like, you know, she's suing people. We don't want to be involved with, like, lawsuits and things. And you just stay away. Like, and it's kind of just feels like there's, like, this, like, negative, like, bubble around me where, like, only the wrong people want to get close to me. But, like, genuine people, like, don't want to touch the situation and don't want to be associated. So it's like, it's very hard to know.

[Rachel Yukatel]

But isn't that so interesting about college culture, though, that, like, they don't want you around because they don't want to be sued? Well, they weren't the type of people that did anything wrong.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, why would I sue them just by hanging out? Also, I'm not just suing people over here. I haven't filed lawsuits. There is a criminal investigation, but that, again, has nothing to do with me. These people committed crimes.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Well, so let's talk about that for one second. I think it's important for people to know when they listen to this, that once something is posted like that, it becomes bigger than just you Right. It's like it goes into this universe and it's archived and police can see a crime was committed and they will follow up on that. So even if you were like, I don't want to press charges. I don't want to get involved. It's not your. It's not your decision anymore.

[Maddie Kowalski]

I can't just say, I don't want to press charges. It's like the state of Florida versus whoever. Like, it's not. It's not my decision. Like, the police knew about it before. Like, they ever talked to me. Like, they knew all about this. They already had all of the accounts that posted it. Like, they had all of this information. Like, people were calling in and reporting it, like, on my behalf before I even, like, knew if that's something I wanted. Like, it's not. It's not like you can commit, like, assault and then the person is like, I don't wanna press. Maybe, actually, maybe that's how that works. I have no idea. But it's like, in this case, like, it's not up to me.

[Rachel Yukatel]

I understand. Also, I'm curious about how you're working on yourself. I would imagine that it's hard for you to want to be in public and drink or act like you're having fun, because it almost makes it seem like the narrative that people are giving of, like, oh, Maddie, she deserved it. Oh, she asked for it. Oh, she got drunk. Oh, she's a flirt. Like, do you worry that you acting in a certain way is gonna then come back to haunt you? Because they're gonna use that as an excuse for what happened 100%.

[Maddie Kowalski]

But no matter what I do, I post myself crying. She's crocodile tears. Like, she's doing this for attention. Blah, blah, blah. I'm out. I'm out. Happy. It's like, why the f is she happy? Like, right? She said she was upset. And it's like, okay, maybe I sat in bed all day, like, anxiety ridden, like, upset, crying, reading comments. And then like, my friends were like, okay, let's go have fun. And then I wanted to go. Like, two things can be true, of course, but it's no matter what I do.

[Rachel Yukatel]

But don't forget, you're also listening to kids who are kids and you're a kid. But, like, this is a normal phase of life that you can feel good one minute and you can feel terrible another minute. And both things, Both things are the truth. Well, then those are not people that should be your friends. And they can comment, but they're also children. And when something happens to them and they're in that situation, they will remember Maddie Kowalski, and they will say, oh, I get it now. I know what she was going through. And unfortunately, it's just one of those things that you're gonna have to kind of grow through for someone will stop you 20 years from now and be like, oh, my God, I went to college with you, and I remember this, and I experienced XYZ that might not be even similar in what happened, but the feelings were the same, right? And they'll say, I totally get it, and I'm so sorry that I didn't. I wasn't more supportive back then. Like, I don't know how. I don't. I don't think you know anyone, including your family, including your lawyers, including whoever that has ever been through something as seriously emotionally damaging reputation damaging that big as you. And it takes a big person to get through that. And, you know, it's not over yet, because time is the only thing that can heal that. And I just want you to know, like, you're gonna be okay. And you just have to, you know, stay strong and know that it's. You are gonna get through it, and you are gonna have a great life. And hopefully this is your one time that you learn a hard lesson in trust, in decisions, in choices, in people, and you just act accordingly going forward. Right? I mean, that's all you can do. So what do you. What's the next chapter for you? Like, what are you looking forward to?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I have no idea. Like, I genuinely, like, dude. I mean, I didn't think I was gonna, like, survive this. I didn't think I was gonna come back to school. So I'm just, like, day by day, I'm here. Like, that's the big step right now. I mean, it's like. I mean, with, like, the whole, like, social media and, like, me going viral, whatever, like, there's a lot of, like, cool opportunities. I don't know if I have the mental energy to entertain any of that right now.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Can you talk about anything that was offered to you or, like, the kind of opportunities that have come to you?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, I mean, just a lot of, like, influencers and stuff have reached out. You know, a lot of streamers, want to do, like, collabs and things. And, like, you know, it's like, people I watch, so I think that would be cool. But also that's just opening the door for, like, a, more hate. And B, I just feel like I'm not in, like, a place, like, mentally.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. To be Able to do any of that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So it's like collabs where you go on their page or something? Yeah, like you're doing a tick tock. Like, I don't even know what.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, like TikTok streams, like whatever, like those kind of things.

[Rachel Yukatel]

What does that mean? Where you would talk, where they would interview you, or like, like where they'd

[Maddie Kowalski]

be like, come to like, Disney World and we're gonna like, mic up and

[Rachel Yukatel]

like, oh, okay, so do something fun. They're not.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, it would be like, fun stuff, not just like sitting there.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Got it.

[Maddie Kowalski]

But yeah, like cool stuff with, like, people I actually watch. But. But I mean, I just can't deal with any more hate right now. And also, like, if they catch me on a bad day, I'm gonna be like, crying the whole time.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, no, I understand. Well, hopefully you will. So now you said you're studying what, like, media management. Media management. What does that mean?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I don't know. My classes are like social media, PR and reality tv. Oh, fun stuff like that. So I have cool classes.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, well, so I'm sure opportunities are gonna come to you now and later in life, and you won't be able to run away from things that are this in the past, but you can use it to your advantage. And because you're studying that, I'll just put it in your head. You might be someone who goes on a public speaking tour in a couple years about what happened in college and how you survive this kind of thing. You know, how you survive having someone hijack your narrative, how you survive, you know, a terrible evening that then was put on display. Like, do you feel like you made any mistakes in this?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah, 100%. Like, I mean, granted, everyone has a different perspective. I feel like people who maybe went to a big party, school, college, or maybe a little more understanding. Like, I was drinking and stuff, but, you know, of course I'm not of age. That was a bad choice. I, you know, should not have been by myself, like, wandering around, like, talking to strangers. Things like that are not right. Not things I should have been doing. Those are all mistakes. But are those mistakes that warrant this? Like, no, not at all. Like, nobody deserves that. So, like, the mistakes, yes, I made mistakes, but the normal consequences of those mistakes are not like, yeah, this.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, of course.

[Maddie Kowalski]

So, yes, I made mistakes, but I don't think anything I did could warrant, like, the amount of backlash that I'm receiving when a crime was committed against me.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right. And just for like a clip that I might want to make later I just want to get you saying, I'm going to cut this out, George, for when he's listening. I'm going to cut this part out. But I just want to have this. Can you say something along the lines of what it has felt like to be the subject of conversation on Twitter in something that I did not consent to being put out? Can you just say it in a sentence the way you would say it? Here's how it felt over the last couple months that, you know, it felt terrible that over the last couple months, people were talking about me so much on Twitter for something I did not consent to putting out. Like, I'm trying to get you, like, a clip of you being able to say, like, I was depressed, I could not get out of bed. You know what I'm saying?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. I mean, like, over the past three months, like, being the subject of so much scrutiny online for something I didn't consent to be posting, it's. I mean, I have a constant, like, state of anxiety. I have stomach aches, and I can't really move sometimes I can't, like, move my mouth to form words because I'm so anxious about what people are going to say about me next, what's going to come out next? Like, what are people going to say about me? And so I just sit there and I refresh Twitter over and over and over again, and I just jump between the social media sites and I see what people are saying, and I read the comments and it's, like, addicting. And then I just get depressed, and then I just cry or I lay there.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Is there something that sticks out with you as the worst thing that you've read?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I think anything about my family hurts the most because. Yes. I mean, people tell me they would laugh if I killed myself. You know, like, all these things. They're like, we would laugh at a video of you killing yourself. Like, we would. Like, we laughed at the video of you. Like, things like that. Like, I get death threats all the time, but I feel like I'm, like, numb to that at this point. It's. Whenever I see. Then bring my family into it, that's when I, like, it really hurts me. And don't, like, don't get me wrong, it all. It all hurts. But that's, like, when I really, really get upset.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah. What's your relationship with your family now? Your brother and your parents?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Good. But it's just I have a lot of, like, guilt. I mean, even though I'm not the one. Like, they're always telling me they're like, you're not the one who chose to post all this. You're not the one who was calling us and doing all these things. But it just. I just, like, it's hard.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And they've been really supportive. Right?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So will you just expand on that? Be like my parents.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah. My parents, like, helped me with the resources to take the videos down off Twitter, and they have said they support me with, like, social media and things like that, you know, and they're always there when I'm, like, upset. I need to call, and they check in on me.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Did you have to have a conversation with your brother?

[Maddie Kowalski]

I haven't really, actually.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Has he said anything to you?

[Maddie Kowalski]

No.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Well, is he awkward? Is he being supportive of you and hanging out with you on the couch and stuff? He just.

[Maddie Kowalski]

He, like, reposts my, like, videos on. Posted my Instagram video yesterday.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like, he's supportive, but it's just. It's just hard. It's just, like. It's so embarrassing.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Maddie Kowalski]

So.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So. All right, well, I hope this was an easy, easier than you thought conversation, and I hope that you get the justice you deserve, whatever that looks like for you. And I do hope that you have my number, and I hope that you will use me anytime as a friend, an adult, whatever, of someone who has been through your name being in the spotlight, you know? And for me, it's been, you know, almost 20 years that my name has regurgitated over and over, and. And it took me a long time to find my footing and to figure out how I was gonna navigate through the world. And I hope that doesn't happen to you. I hope you're able to, like, stumble and get up again and figure it out. And I hope you find the friends that you deserve and the love that you deserve from someone. And it sounds like you have great family, so that is good. But if you need anything, you can always call me.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

Of course.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And the last thing is, like, what do you think is the most misunderstood thing about this situation or that you really want to clear up with people?

[Maddie Kowalski]

Like. Like, that I'm like, people. I mean, I think people don't even think I'm a person. Like, I think people just see me as, like, something to laugh at because you see or anyone in the public eye because you see, like, when, like, people get canceled, too, it's, like, just so much hate. And it's like, yes, people can make mistakes, and you can choose to, you know, maybe be like, oh, that's weird. Or I don't support this person. But it's like everybody's a person. Everybody's living life for the first time. Like I'm 19, you know, I'm a 19 year old girl in college and I just had something crazy happen. Like, please, like I just need like grace, you know?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, I wish that for you.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So you're doing great and I'm really proud of you.

[Maddie Kowalski]

Thank you.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yukatel. Please be sure to subscribe, subscribe to the show and give us a five star rating and review. You can support the show by joining our [e-mail] misunderstood with Rachel Ukatel. Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out?

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Read - Parafi and Splitify)]

Email [e-mail] that's spelled M I S S. Understood.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Thank you so much and I'll see you next.

[Grainger Advertiser]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift. And you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Grainger Advertiser (HVAC Technician)]

If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.