← Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
Oz Pearlman's Life Story is UNREAL - The Art of Mentalism | Miss Understood #373
00:59:13
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- [00:00]
Rachel Ukatel
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- [00:30]
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- [01:32]
Rachel Ukatel
So we were just talking about your name. You go by Oz, and people I think, would say Oz all the time. How'd you get that name?
- [01:39]
Oz the Mentalist
It's an Israeli name, so it means brave and strong in Hebrew. So in Israel, it's not as weird of a name or pronunciation. But here, first off, now I'm kind of like, you know, a mentalist and a magician. So you're leaning into the wizard of Oz thing. So I have so many things going against me, it makes sense for it to be Oz. I was born. My mom can only have twins. I'm in very strange conditions. So I have twin sisters. I was a twin, but my twin died at birth, which I found out later in life. She actually didn't tell me for a while. But what was interesting is because I was gonna have a totally different name. But since I survived, they changed my name to Be. It means, like, brave and strong. So that was the name.
- [02:14]
Rachel Ukatel
That's unbelievable. Was it a twin? Boy or girl?
- [02:16]
Oz the Mentalist
Twin boy. And I always. This is the weirdest thing. Cause I am not a psychic. It's not like, supernatural what I do. It's a skill that you can learn. But I always had this intuitive thing when I was a kid that I kept saying, I have a twin. I have a twin. And it freaked out my parents because I don't believe in ghosts or anything. But I really felt as if I too, had a twin. And only when I was about 11 did my mom tell me, hey, you had a twin. And I was shocked.
- [02:39]
Rachel Ukatel
Had they named him?
- [02:40]
Oz the Mentalist
I don't remember. It's a great question. I don't think they did. You know, in like, Judaism, you don't really name the kids before they're Born. It's a little superstitious, but I think they had other names for us. And so I don't know what the names would have been, but it definitely wouldn't have been my name.
- [02:53]
Rachel Ukatel
Right. Okay.
- [02:54]
Oz the Mentalist
So maybe my life would have been a different trajectory.
- [02:56]
Rachel Ukatel
Yes, it was destined. It's a perfect name, obviously, for you.
- [03:00]
Oz the Mentalist
Worked out.
- [03:01]
Rachel Ukatel
So tell me the difference between a magician and a mentalist. For people that are confused, we get paid more.
- [03:06]
Oz the Mentalist
No, I'm kidding. No. But truly, a mentalist is a specialist. So within magic. And I always tell people, you know what a magician is visually, right. You could think of somebody on stage who makes like something float or cuts a woman in half. And card tricks, Right. It's visual. I'm gonna do something fast with my hands that's gonna trick your eyes. I don't have props, so I could go do a show for five people or five. I am the show. What I do is I've learned how people behave. I know how they think. And it's a lot of things that have to do with misdirection, the same way a magician does. But instead of me telling you, pick a card, I say, think of a card. And now I can figure out what you'll think of before you even do. Or I can guide you in a certain direction. It's a mixture of kind of light, bits of hypnosis influence, behavioral analytics, good old fashioned trickery. And it gives the illusion that I can read your mind.
- [03:59]
Rachel Ukatel
But you're saying illusion. It is an illusion. It's not like you can see into something. Like, can you read people's minds?
- [04:06]
Oz the Mentalist
I can. So a great question. Am I doing something that can't be explained within the laws of science? No. But does it sure as heck look that way? Yes. So a lot of things I'm doing. Here's the simple solution. A lot of people think, if I told you to pick a number one to 100, there's no way you could do that. How could you know that? But what you're not realizing is, what if I've already done this to 10,000 other people and now I realize certain people go for this number. Certain people go for this number. And what if the same way if you're in a casino, you could tip the odds in your favor. I can do little things that will guide you in the way I want. Instead of it being 1 in 100, it's 1 in 5 or 1 in 3 or 1 in 2. What if, literally I could know exactly what you're going to do? Before you did it. And it's science. I've learned to do that. So it's done under the guise of entertainment, but it's not mind reading. It's a science. It's a skill you can learn.
- [04:56]
Rachel Ukatel
Right, okay, that's interesting. So do you believe in what psychics do?
- [05:01]
Oz the Mentalist
I don't really see psychics in me overlapping, if that makes sense, because I'm not really pretending to be a psychic or doing it, but I can do what a lot of psychics do. Better than them. Wow. Yeah, 100%. Like, if I didn't have the ethical or moral compass where I would feel okay, again, I don't want to say scamming, because I'm not saying psychics are scamming people. I can recreate what they do legitimately, so I know how. The elements of cold reading, warm reading. You walk into a room, you can observe people, you can observe so much about them and instantly judge a book by its cover. Also, if someone goes to a psychic, they'll usually have one of four topics they're interested in. Right? Love, money, my future, some sort of an issue, health problems. And just by feeling those out, you can watch their body language shift. And you know, you gotta hit. Suddenly it's, oh, my God, we're talking about health. And you can just feel, is it their mother, is it their daughter, is it somebody in their dad's side? And just little feelers, you can get a sense of who it is and somebody will be like, oh, my God, I walked in. The psychic, he knew my dad was going through chemo. How could he have known that? Well, because you're in your 40s, they know your parents are older, they see the way you're shifting. There's all these tactics that you could learn that you could utilize. Does that make sense?
- [06:07]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [06:07]
Oz the Mentalist
And so that's why I say I could do it better than them, because quite frankly, I'm better trained than most of them. It's kind of like a Navy SEAL is probably better at playing video games like Call of duty than a 12 year old. Do you know?
- [06:19]
Rachel Ukatel
So how did you get the training for this? Do they have classes?
- [06:23]
Oz the Mentalist
No, University of Michigan. Find it in the syllabus. I started as a magician, and most mentalists are magicians, where you learn magic first. And once you ditch the props, think of it as stand up comedian. So stand up comedian's the purest art form because you stand up in front of a group and you have nothing. You just tell jokes, right? You tell stories, you tell your life and people laugh. And that's your fuel. So my fuel is laughter, but also amazement. Just wow. Memorable moments. So I started getting rid of the props. When I did magic, I'd go. And instead of like a card trick, Great parallel. Instead of picking a card before someone even picked the card, I'd be like, this guy's gonna pick a seven of diamonds. He'd pick it. And I'd be like, how? How is that happening? How am I getting that? Because I'm learning little things about this person. I'm trusting my intuition. And you start to do quick, impulsive, like, body language reads. You figure out what people are going to do. And then you learn books to get better at it and better at it. And it's. It took a while to just stop doing magic because it's a crutch. You know, Magic tricks work every time. If you practice them enough, they're going to work.
- [07:25]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [07:26]
Oz the Mentalist
Mentalism doesn't work every time. I've screwed up countless times. I screw up less and less now because I do this for a living and I've gotten better. But if it worked every time, it'd be boring. Yeah, it would be boring. It's fun to watch because you don't know what's gonna happen.
- [07:40]
Rachel Ukatel
Right. So tell me about your background for a minute. How did you get started in this? How old were you when you started magic?
- [07:46]
Oz the Mentalist
I was 13. I had my bar mitzvah. I had never really done, like, we didn't have a big party. I lived in Michigan at the time. My folks gotten divorced recently. It was kind of like a really tumultuous bad time in my life. And I think, looking back, like a little psychoanalytic, I saw a magician. I went on a cruise ship instead of a party for my bar mitzvah and I saw this magician. I was blown away. And this filled this void. Instead of dealing with all this trauma and stuff going on, I just became obsessed with magic. And so I started buying books, videos. My parents are Israeli. I was born in Israel. So they're very, you know, you want to buy more of these, go work. It was very much a pull yourself by your bootstrap. So I got a job when I was 14 doing this. I'd been doing this for less than a year. I started doing kids birthday parties, got little business cards printed at Kinko's, and I just started doing this as my hustle. This was my business since I was 14.
- [08:36]
Rachel Ukatel
Wow. So I would assume that magic is hard to learn at that age. Like, how are you actually Learning tricks that people haven't seen or that adults can't call you out on and be like, I know what you're doing.
- [08:46]
Oz the Mentalist
So I think you learn at a certain point. It was great for me as a stepping stone, which is you think, how do you learn this stuff? You know what, you can learn anything. I think it's an excuse when people think they can't learn stuff. And this is going back 30 years ago for me where there was no Internet, you know, there was like dial up aol. I went to the library, I checked out every book, I went to Borders, I bought every book. Right now you can go on YouTube and learn anything in the world. So I think you find mentors. I found out there was a magic store, a half hour drive for me. So I would, you know, just drive my mom to the point of insanity, take me to the magic store. I was 14, I couldn't drive and I'd found when I got there I met, you know, older people that were mentors that like, hey, can you give me a ride?
- [09:25]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [09:25]
Oz the Mentalist
And start learning from other people. Find a way to ingratiate yourself to them. If you don't have money, you can't buy them something, pay them compliments, find something you can give them as a gift. Find people that will open doors for you. I learned that at a really young age and I think I just learned how to network and communicate with others and that's honestly the biggest skill. And I just kept learning and learning from other people, from books, from videos. I'm all self taught. I never went to a class or a camp or anything like that.
- [09:53]
Rachel Ukatel
Do you have like a hero or somebody You've always followed there path?
- [09:57]
Oz the Mentalist
I've always admired certain people. Like David Blaine. When he came out was kind of a big time for me because I was a teenager, I was about 16 when his first special dropped and he changed the game. He's just an icon, a legend. I was on the tail end of David Copperfield. He was still very popular, but I loved his stuff. But I wasn't, I never got drawn into those big illusions because I, I don't know, it wasn't me. I like close up. I like being close to an audience and feeling that energy versus a lot of his stuff is grandiose. It's a spectacle which is cool in its own right. And then there's people within my craft who you wouldn't know. They're not famous.
- [10:30]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [10:30]
Oz the Mentalist
But they're kind of visionaries. They're people that, you know, you stand on the shoulder of giants who kind of created mentalism. Because it's relatively new. This really started 100 years ago.
- [10:41]
Rachel Ukatel
Wow.
- [10:41]
Oz the Mentalist
Before that, you know, not like a joke. You'd be burned at the stake. Like anybody who could do what I do 200 years ago would seem like a witch.
- [10:47]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, right, right, right. So, okay, talk to me about then you go to college and you have a corporate job, right?
- [10:53]
Oz the Mentalist
Full on. I. I moved. I think some of our paths align. I worked at 78th floor of the South Tower of World trade center before 9 11. I had an internship. I went back to school. So it's insane. It was a company called Martin Progressive and I worked there, which is just bananas. And so I worked on Wall Street. I had internships. And then when I graduated college, I came here. Like, I didn't really know what to do and worked on Wall street, worked for Merrill Lynch. It wasn't my calling, but making good money. I have an older sister, two older sisters. She's like, get a job on Wall Street. And so I kind of do what I'm told.
- [11:27]
Rachel Ukatel
And so did you like that or you still were doing magic and messing with it?
- [11:30]
Oz the Mentalist
I was always doing it on the side and it was never with this purpose of, I want to do this. You know, when people are like, I have a dream. I want to be an astronaut. I didn't know this was an option.
- [11:38]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay. Literally, it was just a hobby.
- [11:40]
Oz the Mentalist
It was a hobby, but it made money. But I never thought this was something you could actually do.
- [11:44]
Rachel Ukatel
Right.
- [11:45]
Oz the Mentalist
You know, it seemed silly. It seemed like being, I want to be a pop star. How do you do that? There's no playbook. So I was doing this on the side, but I was always doing this as a way to network, but also in life.
- [11:55]
Rachel Ukatel
Right.
- [11:56]
Oz the Mentalist
This was my method of I want, you know, I don't want to make it sound like, lame, but to meet friends, to meet girls, I go to a bar with my friends. All of us are getting free drinks that night.
- [12:05]
Rachel Ukatel
Right? Of course.
- [12:06]
Oz the Mentalist
You're the life of the party. You have a superpower. How do I get my job? When you go to an interview and your resume says, professional magician last seven years, I guarantee you 1000% on my life, my kids life. There is no way that interviewer is not going to ask you, what do you mean you're a professional magician. It's the most interesting thing they've heard all day.
- [12:23]
Rachel Ukatel
Sure.
- [12:23]
Oz the Mentalist
Resume, resume, resume. So now at the end of it, you entice them, you say, oh, at the end of the interview, if we have time. Let me show you a thing. Let me show you one trick. The poor person after me, that trick turns into three tricks. Turns into them hooting, hollering. The next person gets 15 minutes of their interview eaten up. And they're like hitting me on the shoulder, shaking my head, like, you'll hear from us because you've just won them over. I've been in countries where I don't speak the language. I've performed in over 40 countries. I don't speak the language. I can walk up to anyone, kids, adults, elderly. And I have this power to just make them smile, to warm them up, to instantly create a bond and rapport. It is a superpower. And so you're able to open doors that you could never open otherwise.
- [13:04]
Rachel Ukatel
That's amazing. So at what point did you. Were you able to quit your day job, so to speak, and make this your full time job? How did that happen?
- [13:12]
Oz the Mentalist
It happened in steps. Like if you look back whenever you hear people, it always sounds easy in hindsight when you're like, oh, you left my side, Hustle, now I'm making all this money. And it always looks easy in hindsight. But I was there for two and a half years and I wasn't doing it with a purpose. But I just kept getting so busy. At the time, I worked at a bunch of restaurants on the Upper east side. T Bar, which shout out to Tony and Arthur Bacall if they hear this. Great guys. But in a place called Nino's, which was on 72nd and 1st. And I got into these places, Pomola, all these places where you had corporate expense accounts, you had kind of all the Real Housewives, all these various people that were in the fabric of the Upper east side and big corporate decision makers. I learned these restaurants had people that were influential. They would see me and I'm not really making money. But it's a long term play. The money will come first. Establish that you're great at something and have people know you. And I'm giving out 50, 60 business cards a night and suddenly it's like pushing a snowball down a mountain, right? It gets bigger and bigger and everyone knows you. I became a very well known local act. And it got to the point I have kind of a story that's says it all, is I was doing something at Merrill lynch internally. All the event planners knew me within the company. Cause they heard about me. I do happy hours. And so they hired me to do something for the CFO. At this meeting with like 20 big wigs and I did more magic then. And I did a trick where I would turn $1 bills to hundreds. Oh, works great on Wall street, right?
- [14:37]
Rachel Ukatel
Who doesn't?
- [14:38]
Oz the Mentalist
And I did this in front of them. And a guy named James Gorman, he's the CEO of Morgan Stanley, is there, he's Australian. And I take ones from everybody and go, watch this. Snap my fingers. Five hundreds. They're all laughing. They're like, we gotta get this gu. Oh, my God. I go, sir, I do work here. And he thinks I'm telling a joke. And what do you mean? I'm like. I'm like, no, seriously, I work in your GTS division. He goes. He looks at me and I can see it vividly to this moment. He looks, he goes, what the hell are you doing working here, mate? He's Australian guy, and it's almost like a switch flips. And this guy is my boss's boss's boss, you know, he didn't know who I am.
- [15:09]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [15:09]
Oz the Mentalist
He can't believe. And it's like, what am I doing working here? Like, it was a real existential thing. And I just kind of felt like, this is it, you know, go for it. What's the worst that happens? I'll find another job.
- [15:19]
Rachel Ukatel
Right.
- [15:19]
Oz the Mentalist
And so that set wheels in motion. About a month later, I quit. But I had no kids, I wasn't married. You know, there's so many things that can hold you down. It's perfect timing.
- [15:27]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah. So nothing was.
- [15:28]
Oz the Mentalist
And I had money saved up. You know, everything can hold you back. Everyone can have an excuse, but it's easy to say go for it when you have, like, you can.
- [15:36]
Rachel Ukatel
But no one's counting on you. Besides yourself.
- [15:38]
Oz the Mentalist
Exactly.
- [15:39]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [15:39]
Oz the Mentalist
So I think get your ducks in order if you're gonna do something, plan, make your luck. Don't just wait for luck to happen. You gotta, like, get yourself in a position for that type of luck to occur and then go for it.
- [15:50]
Rachel Ukatel
Right. So after that, did you really hone in on being a mentalist or you still were doing a lot of magic?
- [15:55]
Oz the Mentalist
I was still doing magic. And it's funny because, like, takes 10 years to be the overnight success. And I was doing this on the side and I was building up, building up, getting really known in and around New York. I made a kind of a branding decision. I was doing a lot of mentalism. But in 2015, I did America's Got Talent.
- [16:11]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [16:11]
Oz the Mentalist
And that was kind of like the blow up moment for me, that show. I got third place. The year before, a magician, magician had won the Show. Oh, so I knew that you. And also, he kind of like, we call. I don't want to say look alike, but he's like a white guy. He's in his 20s, I'm in my 30s. We're same height, you know, it's like we look on tv, on mute. A lot of people be like, I saw you. I'm like, you didn't see me. You saw him. So I need to differentiate. Yeah, you really know your lane, that you got to make yourself set apart, and you've got to stand out. You got to do something better than anyone else or different, unique than anyone else. That's gotta be in your unique selling proposition. So I said, I'm gonna be the mentalist. And that's when I decided to be always the mentalist. Kind of like, go with it. That's my social media. That's everything. And I decide at that point, cut the magic.
- [16:53]
Rachel Ukatel
Right? Okay, so tell me about getting on America's Got Talent. Talent. You tried a couple times, right?
- [16:58]
Oz the Mentalist
Yeah.
- [16:59]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah. How did that work out?
- [17:00]
Oz the Mentalist
And the first time I tried, they call it like a producer call in. It's kind of like the red velvet rope at a club. We open it up, walk right in. So for that one, producers call you in. I didn't wait in line for, like, 10 hours with other people. Like, in a pier. They did it at a piercing in Central park on the west side. There are thousands. It's like being on a football field with thousands of people waiting. And they give you a number like you're. It's a mugshot in the best of ways. Some of those people I met that day, to this day, I keep in touch with.
- [17:27]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, that's great.
- [17:27]
Oz the Mentalist
It's amazing. A guy, if he hears. It's amazing. Josh Orlean, he was on the season before me. He was a comedian. Look him up. Funny kid. I met him and his dad. They're to this day, great show.
- [17:38]
Rachel Ukatel
I'm sure there's so many talented people there.
- [17:40]
Oz the Mentalist
There's so many. Also, there's people that are absolutely not talented, but they are so sure of themselves. It's amazing.
- [17:46]
Rachel Ukatel
So here's the moral confidence can be the best.
- [17:48]
Oz the Mentalist
I got the producer call. I went and did it. Bombed. Now, it wasn't really my fault. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but if you're a mind reader, they bring me in a room, like, imagine a room like this, and there's no one there. And there's a camera person, and I go, I read minds. I need Someone's mind to read. So they didn't know that. They thought I was just gonna do my thing like a singer. And so they bring someone in a PA with like a headset who's super distracted. They're in the middle of my act. They're not paying attention. How am I gonna get a good from them? So it bombed. Two years later, I came back. Howard Stern was the. Was the judge. I loved Howard. All my friends love Howard. And you know what? Those two years proved pivotal because I probably did 500 plus shows those two years. I was seasoned. I was much more like it was the right time, right place, right cattle call. I went in there with thousands of people, waited all day, killed it. And so that was my time. One year I don't get in. Two years later, I get in to make third place.
- [18:41]
Rachel Ukatel
And how did you decide. What do you call them? Tricks? Yeah, sure, tricks. How do you decide what tricks to do that are most impressive? That people haven't seen before?
- [18:48]
Oz the Mentalist
Right. I mean, that's really it. So I did something which worked for me. In hindsight, I never planned more than one round ahead.
- [18:55]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [18:56]
Oz the Mentalist
I was so in the moment, like, you know, that mindfulness. I would never even think of the next round. Because what I've seen is that when people start planning ahead like that, you know what happens? They don't even make it through this round.
- [19:05]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [19:05]
Oz the Mentalist
You start thinking about what you're gonna do after you catch the ball. Like, I'm gonna run. You don't even catch the ball. Football, like parallel. But so I just did. For the first two rounds, I did things that I knew I could do perfectly in my sleep. I've done 10,000 times. Literally. Shake me awake at 3am I could do this routine. It's my signature. Things I created. Then we got to later rounds. Nothing like pressure for a creative burst. If you told me right now I could be in TV in six months, plan for it. I'm going to procrastinate. Talk to me a day before. Get my. If you tell me you're going to be on national TV in 24 hours, I'm gonna have the best bursts of my life. I'm gonna go for a three hour run. I'm gonna be in the shower. I'm gonna put my phone down in dnd and that's when I need it to be forced. That's when I get my best ideas.
- [19:50]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay. And do you come up with them out of nowhere or these are ideas that you've heard of and people have done before? You.
- [19:57]
Oz the Mentalist
So everything is kind of like packaging. It's kind of like. I've never read a book, self help, motivational book that isn't something repackaged from a decade or a hundred years ago, but it's. How do you put your own spin on it? Okay, so to answer, yes, I create most of my stuff.
- [20:10]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [20:11]
Oz the Mentalist
The way you think of like a Jimmy Fallon, he has a team of writers that write for him. And a lot of the people you've seen on tv, they have a set of creators for them. There's a rare group that are creator performers. Like, I create kind of like a singer, songwriter, like a Taylor Swift. Most of what you see me do, I've created.
- [20:27]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [20:27]
Oz the Mentalist
It's not like something else. I make up the things I do, but I always create from the ending backwards. So I, I just like to think, what's the coolest thing I could do if I went on TV and I'm doing stuff for. I did stuff for a bunch of football players this year on NFL, I go, what if I could go up there and what's the ultimate thing that a football coach wants me to do? Forget tricks, forget card tricks, forget all this crap. What if I could tell you what the other coach just told his player to do in the play?
- [20:52]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, that would be cool.
- [20:53]
Oz the Mentalist
That's worth a billion dollars. Literally. You know what they're gonna do before they do. So I told the coach, go get your playbook from upstairs and flip through any one of your playbooks. Pick any play you want right now. And then I literally told him the play that he thought of and he's freaking out. So I like to create things that. And that's never been done before. I made that up because I just said, this will appeal to this audience, to this viewer, versus if I go on a show that's about cooking, we're gonna do something all about your best recipe that you made for somebody in your family that you love, that you haven't seen. Like, I like there to be an emotional hook.
- [21:23]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, but how could you really plan on that? And for people that, you know, I've seen some of the stuff you do, you're picking out things that they're thinking of way earlier. And you have a T shirt on underne or whatever it is of what they're going to say. Like, how can you make them say that?
- [21:38]
Oz the Mentalist
You know, that's the million dollar question.
- [21:40]
Rachel Ukatel
How.
- [21:41]
Oz the Mentalist
But no, there's, there's a bunch of tactics and skills and it's kind of think of it, it really is like a chef who knows how to make a recipe 10 different ways. So I have so many different ways to get to the answer.
- [21:53]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [21:53]
Oz the Mentalist
And from your perspective, it looks impossible. And that's what's keeping me in business, right? I'm screwed. You know, chat. GPT will take my job, but that's the skill is knowing how to. I don't like the word manipulate, but that's what it is. How do you get someone to do what you want them to do, even when they're out of their way, trying to be unpredictable? How do you still make them predictable?
- [22:14]
Rachel Ukatel
Because most of those people, I would think, are skeptics, right? They're like, you're never gonna figure out
- [22:18]
Oz the Mentalist
the biggest skeptic of all. The biggest skeptics turn into mentalists. Like, I've had these hedge fund guys that hire me who they, oh, I want to know how. But I had one guy who literally decided he's got more money than he needs for 10 lifetimes that I'm gonna spend the next year learning how to do this. And I actually came up and gave him lessons. And he was a legitimate, legitimately interested person. He went past, like, a passing context of, oh, this is cool. He really wanted to know. And it's funny because it's only gonna fall into two camps. Once you find out how I do it, you're either gonna be supremely disappointed. You're like, this is. Or you're gonna be absolutely, like, shell shocked. You're like, there is no way that you are on live, national TV with 15 million people watching live. And you did that. He goes like, that could have gone wrong 20 ways. And I go, that's it. He goes, hey, that's insane. And it's funny when you hear. Cause it only is those two. It's never a middle ground. It's either the simplest, most ridiculous solution, or you cannot believe that you would actually have the balls to do that. Pardon my French. Because it's so risky. It's so risky, but it works. And if you've gotta believe in yourself.
- [23:19]
Rachel Ukatel
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- [24:32]
Oz the Mentalist
Yes and no. So it would be great in certain contexts, but it's done in, like, think about a director of a movie, right? You think they're displaying things in a certain way. They get to point the camera where they want. Does that make sense? Like, if you're guiding an interview, you get to ask the questions you want. So when I'm doing my show, I get to do things in a certain way. For example, if you thought of a card and I guessed the card, you go, why don't you go in the casino? Because when you're playing poker, I can't say, stop. Look at me. Think if it's red, think if it's black. Now, hearts, diamonds. Repeat after me. People aren't gonna do all that. There's a rhythm. There's a way that I do it. A doctor can't diagnose you over the phone. They gotta look at your body. They gotta check things. That's how I am. I need a certain procedure to get to the answer. That's why during the zoom era, during COVID all of us who did this, we reinvented. We were out of a job. We kind of reinvented how to do this over zoom. It was so much harder because when you're not in the room with somebody, you can't impact them the same way. So I reinvented my show.
- [25:30]
Rachel Ukatel
Or you can't read their body language or something.
- [25:32]
Oz the Mentalist
You can't control things. You can't forget body language. Like, I can't even see anything but your face.
- [25:37]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, right.
- [25:38]
Oz the Mentalist
So it was funny. I reinvented my show over zoom and it became kind of wildly successful. It wasn't fulfilling. I felt like. Kind of like I was like a webcam girl. I'm like, I want contact.
- [25:48]
Rachel Ukatel
You're like, on OnlyFans, big time.
- [25:50]
Oz the Mentalist
Because it wasn't the same, like, there's nothing of being in the room with people. And that energy is electric.
- [25:55]
Rachel Ukatel
Right.
- [25:56]
Oz the Mentalist
And when it's muted, everyone's muting. You can't even hear somebody being amazed. I feel like I'm in a room alone. But anyways, I don't know if I missed your question. I'm rambling, but you kind of.
- [26:07]
Rachel Ukatel
I was just asking if certain ways. Yeah. If it was, like, helpful for negotiation.
- [26:11]
Oz the Mentalist
100% for me to negotiate certain things. I can tell when people are lying. I can tell when people are uncomfortable. I can tell people aren't listening. So it does give me a technical advantage. But do I think I've gotten, like, the ultimate lowest offer on a real estate deal that I wanted? Maybe I was within 5%. It definitely gave me some edge.
- [26:29]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you ever go to magic shows or, like, watching David Copperfield or something, and you're like, I know how he did it.
- [26:37]
Oz the Mentalist
Pretty much always.
- [26:38]
Rachel Ukatel
Really?
- [26:39]
Oz the Mentalist
Yeah. For David Copperfield, it's a little different. Cause I don't really specialize in illusions. Stage illusions are more. There's maybe a set of 20 principles that you can learn them all, you know, and you're always gonna hear, like, smoke and mirrors, but literally, some of it will be like, how to use a mirror. I don't wanna give stuff away, but there's a lot of tactics and things. How they're built, how you do it.
- [26:57]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [26:58]
Oz the Mentalist
The problem for me with that is when you watch somebody do a trick, like the proverbial Saw a woman in half, you know, in my mind, I think if I had those props, could I do that trick? It feels like a puzzle. I know that they're doing this Somehow. I know they didn't really saw a woman in half. Right. I'm not silly. So I know that somehow you're doing this and you have a secret that I don't know. I still appreciate the craft, but with mentalism, what I like and what I think a lot of people like. People after my show will say, I don't like magic, but I love what you just did is it's cerebral. And they realize that there's a skill and that it's not supernatural. So they're watching some of it. They'll figure out a little bit. They're like, I know that you, when you guessed the card, I did something so you knew it was red. And then you saw me do something with my body that was dying. But how you got the six of diamonds, I don't know. But they love being A part of it, sure. You like being behind the scenes. It's nothing more fun than getting kind of tipped off to a little bit of how something works.
- [27:50]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah. Is there someone or a type of person you can't read and you can't work with them?
- [27:55]
Oz the Mentalist
I mean, when people are really drunk, it can be difficult. You know, sometimes they're even more fun. But certain things are challenging where if you can't maintain people's focus and attention, it can be difficult. Some people are very introverted and they don't want anything to do with you. And it's your job to build rapport and open them up. But, you know, maybe they had a bad day. Maybe you don't know what just went on at home. You know, I learned early on when I was 14, like a shrimpy little kid, me walks up to you, you got a babysitter, you're out to dinner, you don't want me bothering you. You know, that's the hardest thing to approach people at a restaurant where they don't know who I am. Like, I'd walk up to your table and be like, you know, want to be entertained? So I started learning body language then and how to see who's the right person, what's the right time to walk up to them? And how do you diffuse tension?
- [28:39]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [28:40]
Oz the Mentalist
Right. How do you de escalate a situation? It's kind of like what a police officer does. You walk in, someone's hot, how do you cool them down? Right. You don't meet their energy at the same thing. That'll just get kind of a pissing competition of. Of who's tougher and who's this. I go into it in a way where I don't want think of what I'm doing. It's creepy. If you could read my mind right now, that's a super creepy breach of privacy. So you either have to go down the path of this is fun, and at the end of my show, you want to share a drink with me, you want to have a beer with me, I'm that kind of person. You like, wow. I want to hear more about you, or you're kind of scared. And there's two paths of mentalists. If you watch other people's shows, you'll see what I mean very quickly. They're character and demeanor is one of mysterious or you're a little bit on edge. Yeah, I want to be likable. I want to be somebody who you feel comfortable around. And so I made a conscious decision with that where I kind of Let you in a little bit on how I'm doing it. I show you, while I'm doing it, how it's done. Not tipping everything. I'll show you a little bit, and then I'll up the ante and do something just a little more right. You're like, how'd you do that one? I'm like, well, you gotta keep some secrets.
- [29:41]
Rachel Ukatel
Is there something you could tell listeners about how to easy things, about how to read body language that might help them in certain situations, like relationships or dates or whatever it is? I mean, I know I have my master's in forensic investigation, and when we were learning that stuff, we had to take a body language course. It was a small amount of our studies, but, you know, it was the way people fidgeted or looked or, you know, if they would look to the left or the right or. Are there things that people can learn from you right now about it?
- [30:08]
Oz the Mentalist
Totally. So, I mean, there's. There's things that are hard and fast rules, but they don't apply to everyone. So when you tell somebody, you know, if they're pausing, itching their nose and looking to the left, they're lying. You can't do that for everyone, because some people just doesn't. They don't have the same body language reads. It's kind of like testing somebody for steroids. You have to first see their blood type and see if you know what the level is.
- [30:28]
Rachel Ukatel
The level.
- [30:28]
Oz the Mentalist
Because some people have naturally high testosterone. So the same thing applies where there's not one rule fits for everyone. Otherwise, I would tell it to you. I have to watch somebody for a little while, and then I get their benchmark, and then I get a sense. Because some people do opposite. It's really funny. I'll get the first thing wrong. Like, I have something where I'll tell somebody, get out your phone, look through and pick anybody in your phone. I'm really known for this. I'll say, look, pick anybody out of your phone. Our mutual friend Adam Weitzman, he challenged me. I'm like, get your phone out. Pick anybody. You know, everybody. Adam, pick anybody out of your phone right now. And so I will be able to always tell if it's a male or female based on reaction. But sometimes I'll get that wrong the first time I could show it to you.
- [31:03]
Rachel Ukatel
Even if people are, like, trying to make sure they don't react, they're even
- [31:07]
Oz the Mentalist
better the more they try. It actually goes against what you think, because the more tense you are, the more you are showing it. Off. It's like if they're actually super loose and don't care. It's the same way somebody can pass a polygraph. People that are almost like sociopaths can pass polygraphs because they don't even. They believe their own lies. You know, like pathological liars can tell stories so much that they actually believe something that didn't happen.
- [31:29]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [31:30]
Oz the Mentalist
You know, and they can. They can pass polygraphs. Their body doesn't have tension that everyone else's does when they lie because they fooled themselves. You can look it up.
- [31:39]
Rachel Ukatel
What do you mean by tension? What does it look like?
- [31:41]
Oz the Mentalist
Oh, tension is. It's not. No, no, it's not. It's internal. So your body, like, your breathing shifts, your perspiration shifts, and your blood pressure shifts internally, like stuff you cannot control. That's how they do a polygraph. Right? It's. You can't control it. It's autonomic. It's the same way right now. If somebody burst in here with a gun, your adrenaline system would fire before you even knew what happened. Fight or flight, like, it's thousands, millions of years of DNA and evolution. So the same thing applies where. Here's the stuff that you can use. Listening. You can tell when people are listening versus waiting for their chance to speak. You can always see it in their eyes. Where their eyes open. There's things that people will do where you just said something. And now in their brain, they're. Oh, they're now thinking of something, which means their brain has turned a switch and they're not really listening to what you're saying anymore. Most people forget your name. I can tell when somebody heard my name if they remembered it, heard it, or didn't, just by looking in their eyes instantly. Because if they were thinking of what they were about to say, they're not gonna hear your name. One of the best tricks I have. It's not even a trick, is I will remember everyone's name. I meet at a party each night. End of the night, I met 100 people. I'll know everybody's name.
- [32:51]
Rachel Ukatel
How do you do that? I don't remember anyone's name.
- [32:53]
Oz the Mentalist
Right. Which is. You always say, oh, my God, I was thinking about a million things. That's the exact problem. Your brain is like your phone getting 100 texts. Oh, my God, what's my daughter doing later? What am I getting for dinner? You have all these other thoughts that are competing. If you can find a way to quiet your mind for just that one second when you look at them, you have to make your mind a blank. And there's certain moments that are a blank. Like a lot of time right before you go to sleep, if your mind is quiet, or right when you get in the shower, right when you sit on the bathroom. I know it sounds weird when you're brushing your teeth. Certain people have moments where your brain gets quieted. Take your mind, and right when you're about to hear their name, repeat their name.
- [33:30]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [33:30]
Oz the Mentalist
Don't think of anything else. Be like, oh, my God. What's your name? Brandon. How do you spell it? Is it Brandon with an O or an E? Repeat the name. If it's a name that might be misspelled, always ask how it's spelled. That's gonna help you remember. Oh, you go, brandon with an O. Got it. And now if you say that and you look them in the eye and you're not thinking of anything else, it will impress.
- [33:49]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [33:49]
Oz the Mentalist
It's like taking a snapshot and you will remember it. Minimum short term memory for the next 30 seconds to five minutes. If you repeat it one more time or you pay them a compliment. Like, be like, oh, my God, Rachel, I love this camouflage jacket. You just say it again with some sort of reference point, it will stick in your mind. End of the night, you'll be like that woman, Elena. I know her. And oh, my God, that guy's kid's name is. Oh, his dad's name is Tim. You'll shock yourself. You'll do this the first time and in that night, instead of. Of barely remembering one name, you'll know six or seven, and then practice it the next time.
- [34:21]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay, I'm gonna do that.
- [34:22]
Oz the Mentalist
Try it. Try it. Just try to really repeat the name once. If you can pay them a compliment. It's a little awkward if you meet six people at once, because it's a lot to take in. You know, when you get those lines of, oh, I'm John, I'm this. That's tough because you can't really repeat everybody's name. Yeah.
- [34:36]
Rachel Ukatel
Then you look like, oh, John with
- [34:37]
Oz the Mentalist
an H. Bianca, how do you spell it? It looks psycho, but if you can just slow your roll there and go, john, great to meet you. Hey, Bianca. You guys, John and Bianca. How do you guys know each other? Like, just anything to slow down the flow.
- [34:47]
Rachel Ukatel
Associate it with that associate.
- [34:49]
Oz the Mentalist
It's not a mnemonic because that's a different thing. Where you try to make somebody outlandish. You can create lists in your mind. That's a different skill. This is quite literally listening. But Also, in negotiations, you're with your boss or you're with your spouse, and you're trying to find out. You can tell. People have a sixth sense with their spouse. Like, are they mad at me right now? Did I do something wrong? You can feel it, and it's an instinct, and it works in a lot of other parts of life, but we don't trust it. A lot of people will be like, I sense this and this about that person. What do you think? I go, you're probably right. Like, you just are talking yourself out of it.
- [35:22]
Rachel Ukatel
That's interesting. So has anything ever gone wrong when you are in, like, a public scenario, like shows?
- [35:30]
Oz the Mentalist
I mean, yeah, I try to shoot for things to go wrong very frequently, but not, like, if things go wrong over and over, because I try to do things that are pushing the boundaries.
- [35:40]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [35:40]
Oz the Mentalist
Kind of like a comedian who tries and tests out new material. Jokes are gonna bomb. So the same thing applies where I will try and do things that are on the cusp of beyond my. Like, I'll just reach for stuff, and if it hits, it's huge. On tv, it's way worse. Cause on tv, it's amplified by millions. I've had definitely things go wrong. Like, I had one on AGT where I just guessed something wrong, but. But hopefully I'm moving through it quickly and I'm going to an alternate ending. I'm troubleshooting. I always have things planned where if something goes wrong, I pull another card out of the sleeve. Like, you won't even know it goes wrong. In certain instances, I'll be sweating bullets, but I'll have something else planned.
- [36:19]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, so you can make them think that wasn't the end of the trick? Totally got it. Okay. All right. But has it ever happened to you that you couldn't get out of a scenario that you couldn't figure out what they were thinking?
- [36:29]
Oz the Mentalist
Yes. I mean, I've had, like, a finale kind of bomb. And that's the worst. Because you don't want to. You leaving somebody on a terrible note is the worst feeling. I had a TV appearance. This is kind of way back when. I think it was on CBS Morning News where I was guessing a celebrity somebody was thinking of. And I think straight up, I guessed John Travolta. And she just goes, no.
- [36:47]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, no.
- [36:48]
Oz the Mentalist
And I'm like, who was it? And I can't remember who. She said it was somebody else. It was pretty close, actually. And it was like, she looks Al Pacino. I'm like, you're killing me. Great. You know Great. You know, Italian actors. It was just. It was brutal, but there was no real. You couldn't unwind. If I had had another minute, if, you know, if it wasn't live TV and they said I would have had one more minute before we go to commercial break, I bet I could have done something cool to kind of pull myself out of it. But you learn from those. You learn from those moments of, how do I. What should I have done different?
- [37:16]
Rachel Ukatel
Right.
- [37:17]
Oz the Mentalist
And how do I plan better next time?
- [37:18]
Rachel Ukatel
So where do you come up with most of these tricks?
- [37:21]
Oz the Mentalist
When I'm running, I run a lot. I run, like, marathons and ultramarathons.
- [37:24]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that.
- [37:26]
Oz the Mentalist
My side passion. And so if I'm out running, like, tonight, I'm probably gonna go run with some buddies. I know it sounds ridiculous, but five or six hours, I'm gonna go run, like 30 or 40 miles.
- [37:33]
Rachel Ukatel
Tonight, I can't even run to the corner without getting bored and tired.
- [37:37]
Grainger Announcer
That's amazing.
- [37:37]
Oz the Mentalist
So I have great ideas during that. I listen to podcasts or I just zone out and I. In the shower. Honestly, certain places where I have no electronics, no screen, I don't have to do it with kids or wife or family. Or just like, places where your mind can wander and be quiet daydreaming. Like when you were 8 years old and I didn't have a phone or iPad or any of that.
- [37:58]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [37:59]
Oz the Mentalist
Just let your mind wander and suddenly just things come to you.
- [38:02]
Rachel Ukatel
Right.
- [38:03]
Oz the Mentalist
So that. And when I have pressured situations, I have a lot of TV stuff coming up. And so I'm just constantly, just in my mind. Something sets it in motion.
- [38:12]
Rachel Ukatel
Are you working on a new trick right now or.
- [38:14]
Oz the Mentalist
I'm always working on new stuff. I think it's like a comedian, like a Jerry Seinfeld's always writing on a notepad. You know, I ran what I write about raisins, so I will. I had an idea the other day that came to me just literally. I was just talking to a magician friend, and I just thought of it, and I just thought of something that would be amazing for NFL, and it's already. It came together, and within a minute, I started buying a prop or two. Because the key with mine is visuals. I'm constantly revealing information that's impossible for me to know. Either I'm influencing you to pick something or telling you something about your life or your past that I couldn't know. How do I do that? Like you said, I. That T shirt reveal is crazy. Or how do you make something on A billboard or how do you do it visually? Like with fire. With. You want to do it in a cool way that captures your attention.
- [38:55]
Rachel Ukatel
Right. Okay. So do you practice this on your wife or.
- [38:59]
Oz the Mentalist
She's so over it.
- [39:01]
Grainger Announcer
She is.
- [39:02]
Oz the Mentalist
No, I mean, like, still loves me. I'm pretty sure it's her birthday tomorrow. Happy birthday, honey. But this is not. She is a tough critic in a good way, but she's been through it. I've known her for like 13 years. She's not really. I don't practice. I practice on audiences.
- [39:15]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, you don't?
- [39:16]
Oz the Mentalist
My practice is my work now.
- [39:18]
Rachel Ukatel
Interesting.
- [39:19]
Oz the Mentalist
If that makes sense. My kids are too young to get it yet. They're on the cusp. Like, I'm still kind of cool to them. I do magic shows, but that's different. Doing a magic show for. I did one for my four year old and six year olds classes. First graders love me. In like three years, I'll be a total loser and nerd to them. But I'm really in this finite zone. But that's different. Kids will bust you.
- [39:40]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [39:40]
Oz the Mentalist
Also totally. Kids don't know that age doesn't know what mind reading is. So I do more like big, slapsticky, funny. You know, they. You pull a bunny out of a hat, they're in heaven. You tell them the name of their best friend, they're like, that's not cool.
- [39:53]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [39:54]
Oz the Mentalist
They don't realize what's amazing yet.
- [39:56]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there somebody that you've performed for that you thought was like the coolest?
- [40:03]
Oz the Mentalist
So many people, honestly, that's kind of one of the perks of the job. I've met so many heroes. I mean, when I met Steven Spielberg, I spent time with him. Like, Larry David is on my Mount Rushmore. I got to hang out with him. It's just certain people I like to be around people that are. It's not always entertainment or, you know, people that are the most famous. I like people that I'm drawn to that are just very insightful, successful. I'm doing an event next week with Warren Buffett. Like, that's somebody I can't wait to meet. Just people that are. They've just created things and that have broken through in certain ways. Not always about money or fame, but just I'm drawn to success or people that have pushed boundaries and continued to for years. Richard Branson, I met him. I went to his private island. Unbelievable person. Just somebody who never is constrained, always innovating, always went to space. It was so cool.
- [40:51]
Rachel Ukatel
And that must be such A cool thing that you are impressing people like that that are so impressive that everyone else wants to know and impress. And here you are there mesmerizing with you. And they think you're the ultimate.
- [41:02]
Oz the Mentalist
So it's a lucky thing I've stumbled into and just, you know, it's a unique craft. And quite frankly, it's a weird thing because I get to see them in a way that most people don't. Because I'm not selling anything to them. Right. It's not like somebody. I work for them and I'm also not. It's. They get to be like kids again. It's one of those weird things where I get to do something where people are okay. Opening up in a certain way. You know, kind of being vulnerable.
- [41:25]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [41:25]
Oz the Mentalist
Because. Because you're at that level. How often are you getting to go, oh, my God. And just kind of allowing yourself to just be wowed and impressed and let yourself go. And there's not a lot of instances where you can do that. A lot of these people are very serious. It's just like a great moment to kind of see people be kids again.
- [41:41]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah. And not a lot. It's so true. Cause not a lot of things are surprises anymore. Like, think about that.
- [41:47]
Oz the Mentalist
How often do you see something that you can't explain? When I found out I was gonna be a parent, I immediately felt a lot of anxiety and worry. So I went on to BetterHelp to try to look for a therapist to help me with that.
- [41:58]
Rachel Ukatel
My relationship with my family and with my boyfriend and with myself were suffering. I really needed help. I was ruminating a lot. Really. Getting those thoughts out to a therapist and getting feedback was just life changing.
- [42:13]
Oz the Mentalist
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Rachel Ukatel
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Grainger Announcer
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Oz the Mentalist
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Oz the Mentalist
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Grainger Announcer
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Oz the Mentalist
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Oz the Mentalist
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Oz the Mentalist
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Grainger Announcer
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Rachel Ukatel
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- [44:11]
Oz the Mentalist
You and me are New Yorkers. We've seen it all, done it all.
- [44:13]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [44:14]
Oz the Mentalist
So when something moves the needle, and that's my favorite audience, I truly like the people that will walk up to me, and they're just like, no chance, buddy. This isn't gonna impress me. I'm like, all right, let's do it. Let's dance. Like, I like. I will tell people in my show. I go, I'm the biggest skeptic here. That's why I became a mentalist. I thought, none of this crap as possible. So I push myself and say, what can I do? Is this really. There's no way anyone could read minds. And so I go, I don't read minds. I read people.
- [44:38]
Rachel Ukatel
Right. So do you have a favorite trick? Like, I'm a skeptic, sort of. I don't really believe in stuff like this. I feel like you can't read me. I'm gonna make sure you get. Is there something you could do on me that we can see if you will.
- [44:49]
Oz the Mentalist
Let's do this. Let's go skeptical. And I want it to be right now, in this moment. So I want people to know that, like, if I told you right now, in this exact moment, to think of somebody that you're gonna talk to, it could be family, it could be friend. My only thing is somebody that you'll probably call in the next two or three weeks. Could you think of someone?
- [45:07]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [45:08]
Oz the Mentalist
Now, that seems impossible, right? That I could know who you just thought of. Do you agree?
- [45:13]
Rachel Ukatel
I totally agree.
- [45:14]
Oz the Mentalist
Did you think about it even before this one second?
- [45:16]
Rachel Ukatel
No.
- [45:16]
Oz the Mentalist
So you didn't even know what you were gonna think of. So it's like, how could I know?
- [45:19]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [45:19]
Oz the Mentalist
But now if we put on our hat and start to be really cynical, like, think of a private investigator. I knew you were gonna interview me. So what if. And everything's on Instagram now? We all post, like, a million things stories every day. You probably have an inner circle of tops, 20 people. Most of us do. Favorites in your phone of people you're gonna talk to. And I'm like, could this be your daughter? Could this be. So you don't realize it, but I just limited you a lot more than you think of somebody that's in your inner circle that you might talk to soon. So how about this? Let's make this more impossible.
- [45:47]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay. But I was gonna say I figured that you could, because I'm a skeptic, think you could investigate or look into me. So I just purposely picked somebody that I know I need to call, that you wouldn't know that I'm infant friend.
- [46:01]
Oz the Mentalist
I love that. And I might go to that next, but I want to go to something that's gonna fool you.
- [46:04]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [46:04]
Oz the Mentalist
So before you even walked in this room, somebody you had not thought of in years, somebody you grew up with or somebody that you have no connection with, am I right? That you thought of that you had not thought of in years. And we had never met before I walked in this room, have we? Yeah. No. Never. Never spoken. Let me ask you a question. You could have thought of a boy or a girl, but somebody that would anyone in your family like would. Like parents, siblings, good friends. Would anybody know this person that you thought of or nobody?
- [46:33]
Rachel Ukatel
Nobody.
- [46:34]
Oz the Mentalist
Okay, so watch this. This is how we break it down. And just so I know this is a boy or a girl,
- [46:41]
Rachel Ukatel
can I change who I picked originally so that it makes it more accurate for me? Boy.
- [46:48]
Oz the Mentalist
A boy. Okay. Okay. So you thought of a girl and switched to a boy.
- [46:52]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [46:52]
Oz the Mentalist
How did you know the boy?
- [46:54]
Rachel Ukatel
How did I know him? Yeah.
- [46:56]
Oz the Mentalist
What's the connection?
- [46:56]
Rachel Ukatel
I knew him 20 years ago.
- [46:58]
Oz the Mentalist
Okay. Okay. Think of his name.
- [47:00]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [47:01]
Oz the Mentalist
And see, I like when we go back and forth. Think of the girl's name, Think of the boy's name. Think of how many letters are in each one. You don't have to count, but just kind of go through it.
- [47:10]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay. Okay. Yeah.
- [47:13]
Oz the Mentalist
The girl's name was shorter. Is that right? Yeah, I saw. See, how could I know that you didn't. She just literally changed her mind in the middle. The way you were counting over here, it took you longer to count on this side. If it's longer, go back to her name. Go to this girl's name. And I want you to mix up the letters in her first name. Just mix them up.
- [47:28]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [47:29]
Oz the Mentalist
It's an interesting name. My right's a weird name. You look like it's a challenge. I want you to stop, don't say it, but just grab a letter out of her first name. Just grab a letter out of the middle of her first name and just think of that one letter in your brain. You rolled your tongue. Watch. The same way when I say your name. Rachel. You thought of an R, didn't you?
- [47:46]
Rachel Ukatel
No.
- [47:46]
Oz the Mentalist
Is there an R in her name?
- [47:47]
Rachel Ukatel
Yes.
- [47:48]
Oz the Mentalist
But you switched. You switched from the R to something else you want.
- [47:50]
Rachel Ukatel
I did switch, actually.
- [47:51]
Oz the Mentalist
That's so funny. You thought of the R first because you rolled your tongue. See, this how you told me. Does it work with everyone? No, but I can always tell as I'm going what I'm picking up.
- [47:59]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay.
- [48:00]
Oz the Mentalist
Are most people going to be listening to this on a podcast audio or are they also going to be seeing it?
- [48:05]
Rachel Ukatel
They will also be seeing it. I think most people listen to it.
- [48:09]
Oz the Mentalist
Listen to it. So I'm gonna tell everyone so you can hear this noise. This is me writing down on a marker on a pad of paper. When I wrote, I think, you have not talked to this person in more than 20 years. Like, you don't even know why she popped in your head. You're like, oh, my God, she's got a weird name. But I don't know why I thought of her. Sarma, isn't it?
- [48:25]
Rachel Ukatel
How the fuck did you do that?
- [48:28]
Oz the Mentalist
Just for everyone who can't see. I just wrote that down on the paper and turned it around.
- [48:32]
Rachel Ukatel
Wait, I'm, like, legit. I was thinking in my head, he's never gonna get this. I'm gonna be embarrassed for him.
- [48:37]
Oz the Mentalist
Right?
- [48:38]
Rachel Ukatel
And I was nervous about how I would, like, talk you through this. That's incredible.
- [48:42]
Oz the Mentalist
You have not said this. You have not written this down anywhere. You have literally not done anything. You thought of this person for the first time in decades.
- [48:48]
Rachel Ukatel
No, I'm, like, gonna pass out. That's not amazing.
- [48:51]
Oz the Mentalist
And wait, wait. The boy. The boy you haven't Talked to in 20 years? Not the same boy. You know what? I think you got, like, you were, like, misgivings. Cause you're like, ugh, I don't wanna do him. Did you have a crush on this boy or not related? Somebody you had a crush on and you wanted. You thought of him, but you're like, it's too easy of a name.
- [49:04]
Rachel Ukatel
Yes.
- [49:05]
Oz the Mentalist
Michael. Was that your first crush?
- [49:06]
Rachel Ukatel
That was. That was so weird. There's no way. But I'm not doing anything for you to know that.
- [49:16]
Oz the Mentalist
I mean, that's what everyone says.
- [49:17]
Rachel Ukatel
See? But you're a psychic. Then you're not.
- [49:20]
Oz the Mentalist
I've had so many people at the end of the show.
- [49:21]
Rachel Ukatel
Come on. There's nothing in my body like that.
- [49:23]
Oz the Mentalist
I know you're psychic and you're pretending you're not.
- [49:26]
Rachel Ukatel
There's nothing in my body language that would get you to that.
- [49:30]
Oz the Mentalist
I love when people that are skeptical, like, sarma. Super common name. Totally would have gotten sarma. I know so many sarmas.
- [49:37]
Rachel Ukatel
I don't know any. I don't think anyone knows a sarma except for sarma.
- [49:40]
Oz the Mentalist
Who's gonna hear this?
- [49:40]
Rachel Ukatel
Yes.
- [49:41]
Oz the Mentalist
Be like, I've been misunderstood this whole time. There we go.
- [49:45]
Rachel Ukatel
That's amazing.
- [49:46]
Oz the Mentalist
Thank you. Oh, my God.
- [49:47]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay, so I don't even know what to say after that.
- [49:50]
Oz the Mentalist
That's why we do the trick at the end. I never open a podcast or an interview with a trick because then be like, I don't know what to say. I forgot all my questions. All gone.
- [49:58]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay, wait, can you do another one?
- [49:59]
Oz the Mentalist
I gotta leave you wanting more. That's my big ending.
- [50:01]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, my God. That's amazing.
- [50:02]
Oz the Mentalist
Thank you.
- [50:03]
Rachel Ukatel
All right, so I think that everybody should hire you. I think that's like, I'm floored by that. I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna end up thinking about this forever. Of how you got that.
- [50:12]
Oz the Mentalist
I hope so. That's literally my job. It's not to fool you. It's not to entertain. Those are side effects. If I do my job right, it's to give you memorable moments. I like it where people. If somebody walks out of my show, apathy is the death of me. And they just forget about me and they never mention it to anyone. That's the worst. If you figure out every one of my tricks, I don't mind. I want you to leave and be like, you are not gonna believe. Hopefully you remember my name. Cause it's a weird one. But you go, this guy owes. Oh, my God, he guessed. My friend from 30 years ago. I just want a moment that you will take and it will stay in your brain somewhere, nestled in there forever. Or at least for a few Months or years. That's what I do.
- [50:45]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, my God, you guys, you have to. You have to go look at this guy's Instagram. You have to look at what he does. It's amazing. You have to hire him. Okay, I have a quick lightning round for you.
- [50:54]
Oz the Mentalist
Sure.
- [50:54]
Rachel Ukatel
Is that okay? Best moment in your life?
- [50:59]
Oz the Mentalist
Best moment, my life, when I marry my wife.
- [51:03]
Rachel Ukatel
The best advice you've ever gotten.
- [51:06]
Oz the Mentalist
The best advice I've ever gotten. There's a lot of good ones. I'm trying to think, think, what is the best one? Honestly, I think it's a little cheesy and hokey and mindfulness, but you never know what's going to happen tomorrow. I think a lot of people think they do. I think you really have to find ways to enjoy that moment. I can't remember where I read this, but they say, take your life and just create little slices of joy. And I take. And I just sit there. And when I'm with my kids, with my wife, and when I'm kind of bitching about certain stupid stuff, I just try to stand back and just think, this is amazing. Like, to be alive is such a gift. Never forget it. And even when you feel like crap and there's always things to complain about, and my life is very blessed, and I know, but just, if you're alive, it's a real blessing. Remember that. Think about it.
- [51:52]
Rachel Ukatel
Success to you means.
- [51:54]
Oz the Mentalist
Success to me means honestly getting to be my own boss, getting to be with my family, getting to chase my dream. I've been so lucky in life. I mean, having certain things like, obviously money, material possessions, things like that are great because they create a certain, like, I don't know, they give you freedom in life. But the biggest blessing is just having my family and getting to do what I love. I think that's been success, right?
- [52:22]
Rachel Ukatel
Failure to you means.
- [52:25]
Oz the Mentalist
Failure to me is just being, is losing ambition, losing drive. Whether that means for me, with running, where I like to race and challenge myself, I have to challenge myself, whatever that means in life, to be better, to do something different. Failure is kind of giving up and not striving for new things in the future.
- [52:46]
Rachel Ukatel
Someone you would like to perform for or read.
- [52:49]
Oz the Mentalist
Barack Obama.
- [52:51]
Rachel Ukatel
Ooh, that's a good one. Something I haven't done that's on my bucket list is, God, my wife's gonna
- [52:58]
Oz the Mentalist
kill me if I say this, but one of my good friends right now, this guy's running across America for scum style. William Goudge. I've been tracking him on Instagram 3000miles, shout out to William. You guys should donate. He is just. It's been inspiring. I've gotten known other people that have done it, but I'm watching him every day. Posted on Instagram. They have these amazing videos. The Audacious Report. It's making me want to do it, but my wife will divorce me, so I'm not doing it. But God, I'm so jealous.
- [53:21]
Rachel Ukatel
Wow.
- [53:21]
Oz the Mentalist
I love just these crazy running. I ran last year from Montauk to Manhattan.
- [53:25]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, God.
- [53:26]
Oz the Mentalist
And I broke the record as the hottest day of summer I ran. I'm the fastest crossing of Long island ever.
- [53:30]
Rachel Ukatel
How long did it take?
- [53:31]
Oz the Mentalist
Just over 21 hours.
- [53:34]
Rachel Ukatel
Sometimes that's not much longer than the traffic.
- [53:36]
Oz the Mentalist
The traffic, exactly. Especially 27 when it's one lane. So I just like these challenges. I like to do things that I don't know if I'll be able to pull it off. If I know I'm gonna pull it off. It's not exciting. I want to know if you asked me if I like to fail. I like to have that feeling of failure as possible. Otherwise it's not exciting.
- [53:52]
Rachel Ukatel
Right. Favorite sports team.
- [53:56]
Oz the Mentalist
Favorite sports team. Oh, my God. If I say something not New York, I'm eaten alive. I'm going to go ahead and say for World cup soccer. Argentina, who just won. I was cheering them. I've been cheering them on since I was six. So yeah, Vamos, Vamos. Was very. It was awesome when Messi won.
- [54:13]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay, favorite binge worthy show right now.
- [54:18]
Oz the Mentalist
Succession, please. Don't spoil it for me. I'm four episodes in. My wife almost spoiled for me. The huge thing that happened. I was so mad.
- [54:26]
Rachel Ukatel
You're four episodes into the first season, like current season. Yeah. So good.
- [54:31]
Oz the Mentalist
Yeah.
- [54:32]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay. Your mantra or your life quote would
- [54:35]
Oz the Mentalist
be I say it when I run these ultra marathons. When the good things are happening, when bad things are happening, I go blink and it'll be over. Every one of those things. When I'm suffering. When I ran that thing across Montauk and I was, you know, heat stroked and feeling terrible, blink and it'll be over. Both in a good way and a bad way. I think life just flies by. It just keeps getting faster and faster. Everything you remember just keeps going right. And the older you get, the quicker it goes because statistically that becomes smaller and smaller piece of your life, you know, once you're 70, every year is less and less. You know what I mean?
- [55:09]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, of course.
- [55:09]
Oz the Mentalist
Versus when you're five, if turning six, that's 16% of your life. It feels really long. Yeah.
- [55:14]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [55:15]
Oz the Mentalist
So yeah, you know, you gotta enjoy the ride.
- [55:17]
Rachel Ukatel
For people that are wanting to get into this, what would you suggest they start doing now?
- [55:24]
Oz the Mentalist
So I've suggested this to everyone I've ever met, is knowing a few magic tricks. Like the way I told you when I go anywhere in the world, it will open doors. And most people that are magicians are not professionals. They're people like dentists, teachers, you know how many funeral directors are magicians. I know, that sounds so funny.
- [55:39]
Rachel Ukatel
What?
- [55:40]
Oz the Mentalist
Talk about a place where you need to break the ice. Pun intended. But most of the organizations where there's something called Society of American Magicians and International Brotherhood of Magicians sounds really dorky. But those are professional organizations and most of the people are not professionals, they're hobbyists. And imagine you learn two or three tricks just to know for life. Just imagine you go into a situation and you can do something really amazing. I have something that I've done since I was a kid. Anywhere I grab a napkin. If I'm at a bar, I can do 20 tricks. But one is I grab a napkin and I rip it into small little pieces. And this, a three year old likes this and I rip in their hand, I say squeeze it tight and say a magic word or something. I snap my fingers or we do something. And when they open their hand, they open the napkin and it's restored itself. And I could teach that to my six year old. And that's something you could do anywhere. Anywhere. And the smiles you will get, the moments you will get. And you need nothing. Learning a few of those tricks just to have, I don't care if they're the best or you're the best at doing them, is such a leg up in life that I've told everyone I've ever met, learn a couple cool tricks and there's videos. There's a website called penguinmagic.com that I used to do tons of work for and like videos to teach you. But if you're really serious about it, go just look stuff up. Google teaches you everything.
- [56:53]
Rachel Ukatel
I think I'm gonna do that.
- [56:54]
Oz the Mentalist
Learn one or two awesome. Impromptu. They're called impromptu tricks. They might not be mentalism. Learn a couple magic tricks and if you really get into it and you feel like, wow, this was so fun and you got that validation and you love those reactions, you can advance. Learn something new. I'm happy to point you in the right direction, but the joy you bring to people around you, to kids, to adults, to everybody, it's really it's an amazing feeling.
- [57:17]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah. Yeah. What is next for you?
- [57:21]
Oz the Mentalist
Next for me is just like I told you, I'm go big or go home. I just keep trying to increase what I'm doing and amplify it. What I see is for mentalism, when you go up to most people, what's a mentalist, what's a mind reader? They don't know what that is. And I think that that's unacceptable. I think that there's a slot to be a household name in this country where if somebody hears that word, a mentalist or a mind reader, I want them to know my name. I want to be the person you think of. And I don't have to knock anyone off to do that. Right. I'm not going to be the next David Blaine. I'm not going to be the next David Copfield. I want to be because they have
- [57:53]
Rachel Ukatel
their slots, they have their niche.
- [57:54]
Oz the Mentalist
Yeah. What I focused on a lot is just bigger and better doing things no one's ever seen on bigger and better platforms. So millions and millions of people seeing it. There's a lot coming up with me with sports stars and different athletes, and I'm working on some TV stuff. And social media is also the biggest amplifier nowadays.
- [58:13]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, amazing. Okay, so where could people find you and see some of your stuff if they want to get more information on you?
- [58:21]
Oz the Mentalist
Most of what I put post is Instagram and then YouTube, Facebook, all the normal routes on Instagram. I'm zthementalist, so it looks like oz, pronounced oz, but zthementalist. I post all my tour dates, all my TV clips. If you jump on there, just put something on with John Cena, Ludacris, a lot of fun ones on there. Our mutual friend Adam Weitzman, he was awesome. So, yeah, I just constantly like to kind of amaze people. And I might be coming to a town near you soon, too. So.
- [58:49]
Rachel Ukatel
Yes, you guys should definitely look at his schedule, check it out, and you should see him in person. It's amazing. Do you read your DMs and your comments?
- [58:56]
Oz the Mentalist
I do. I like to engage with my fans. Write to me. If you ask me what the lottery numbers are, I don't know. I wish I know. I could tell you how many times people ask me, what are the lottery numbers? I'm like, if I knew, I would have won and given half to charity by now. I don't know the future. I'm not a psychic. I read people.
- [59:10]
Rachel Ukatel
So you can't predict if somebody's having a boy or a girl.
- [59:13]
Oz the Mentalist
I'm pretty good at that.
- [59:13]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, you are?
- [59:14]
Oz the Mentalist
Of course. So if people know what they're having, does that make sense?
- [59:17]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [59:18]
Oz the Mentalist
So, for example, one of the funny jokes with my wife is when we didn't want to know for our second kid, she wouldn't let me in the room with the ultrasound tech.
- [59:23]
Rachel Ukatel
Oh, wow.
- [59:24]
Oz the Mentalist
Because you know, the ultrasound tech can know at 10, 12 weeks.
- [59:26]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah.
- [59:27]
Oz the Mentalist
So even if you. If they say, do you want to know? That doesn't matter. I already know from looking at them.
- [59:31]
Rachel Ukatel
Really? From their body language.
- [59:33]
Oz the Mentalist
A 50. 50 I hope I can get otherwise. Occupational hazard. But so I've guessed. And so, funny thing, I've done this. I have a lot of couples that have in their scrapbook, you know, first year of life, like the kids, footprints and stuff. They will have a business card or something. I gave them that. I said to them, I go, you guys know what name you're gonna use, right? And they're like, we haven't told anyone. You know, first time parents especially, they're very superstitious. And I said, put this in your scrapbook. Open it the day your kid is born. And I will have given them and I will have predicted the name they used. And one of them, they saw me, their kid's 10 years old now. It's so funny. And they go, the craziest thing, the craziest thing is that what you gave us. We were sure we were gonna use this other name. I think their daughter's name, like, ended up being Harper, but they thought it was gonna be. And they opened up and it was crazy because they go, we were sure we were gonna name her something else. And at the last moment, we changed to this name. How the F did you know that? And they have my card and it's like, she's now like a person. She's 10, you know, it's so funny. And it's just so funny. I did so many. I've done thousands of bar and bat mitzvahs. That was like my hustle when I was like, like from 2005-15. And so many of these kids are now, you know, 20 something year olds. Some of them are getting married. You know, when you feel old, you're like, I did your bar mitzvah 20 years ago. And so anyway, the funny thing is that's what I want. That's what I've learned is I'm not there to fool you. Entertaining. I want to create memorable moments. And that's when I can do that. And you take something and you keep it with you. And like they have that card that I did for them. That's the biggest joy, the biggest gift that I have is that I get to give that I've lucked out in life.
- [61:04]
Rachel Ukatel
I love that. But I love that also you're honest about. You can't pick lottery numbers. You probably can't decide who's gonna be president next year.
- [61:11]
Oz the Mentalist
I could tell you who I want, but yeah, let's not go there.
- [61:14]
Rachel Ukatel
Yeah, exactly.
- [61:14]
Oz the Mentalist
But yeah. DMs comments. I'm on there all the time. Honestly, my fans are everything. They're the people that got me to where I am now. So I truly appreciate it.
- [61:23]
Rachel Ukatel
Amazing.
- [61:23]
Oz the Mentalist
You need people's minds to read them. I'm a job that I can't do by myself. I need an audience to do it right.
- [61:28]
Rachel Ukatel
Okay. So you guys make sure you go see him in person because he's out. Absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for joining me.
- [61:34]
Oz the Mentalist
Appreciate it. Thanks so much.
- [61:43]
Rachel Ukatel
Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Ukatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five star rating and review. You can support the show by joining our patreon@patreon.com misunderstood with Rachel Ukatel. Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out? Email us@infomisunderstoodpodcastmail.com that's spelled M I S S. Understood. Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.
- [62:14]
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