← Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
The Real Reason Rachel Dolezal Identifies as Black | Miss Understood With Rachel Uchitel #369
01:10:32
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A
My name is Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.
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B
GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising
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C
platform, trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe.
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D
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C
Thank you so much for joining me today on Misunderstood. I'm really happy that you're here. I actually have been trying to get a hold of you for like, three years and finally I was able to find you part of the problem as you no longer go by Rachel. So can you. It's Nkechi now, correct? Yeah, yeah. Tell. Tell us what your name is and how you came up with that name.
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B
Yeah, so I didn't actually come up with it, but I changed my name in 2016 to Nkechi Jala, which Nkhe is short for. It's a very common Igbo name in Nigeria. And an Igbo community reached out to me by email in 2015, actually, after all the media headlines. And they just sent an email like, we see you for who you are. A high frequency Nubian spirit incarnated in this lifetime into a white envelope in order to traumatize white supremacy spiritually. And we give you a name in K neari because you're a gift from God. And that's what that name means. The king means gift from God. And my former name, Rachel Dolezal, means Rachel means lamb, and dollarjal means to lie down. And so it's like a sacrificial lamb. And I was kind of, you know, like, okay, this is a much more empowered name, first of all. And I also. When I was applying for jobs in 20, you know, 2015, after June of 2015 and everything, it's kind of like none of my qualifications mattered. I had a great resume, but it's like Rachel Dolezal, you know, is applying for this job, and nobody wanted to touch any of the PR stuff, right? So I just kind of get a job. And one of my mentors is Malcolm X's oldest daughter, Atala Shabazz. And she was. First of all, don't forget who you were in May of 2015. Don't let this shape you. But also, like, you might need to change your name. You know, consider changing your name. It felt really weird about, like, naming myself anyways, because that's just kind of like, you know, you name your kids, but it's kind of, like, awkward to pick your own name. And so I was like, well, this name resonates. And I like the vibe of the email. And so that's. That's what I chose.
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C
Got it. That makes perfect sense. So you were telling me earlier, though, you do still go by at Rachel or Rachel is somewhat known a little bit. Right. Tell people why you left it.
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B
Yeah, like, my art website is in Ktdala art. And sometimes I pronounce it phonetically, like Diallo. It's really pronounced Jalo. It's a Pulani last name. But anyway, I've transitioned a lot of things over to Kchi. However, some of my verified socials, that's the public name. And anybody that's looking for me under that name, if they just want to see, like, what I'm up to or something, I kind of have both. Honestly, it didn't really work out as far as getting a better shot at a job to change my name because the media, I mean, it was a court order name change. And so the media saw the public record of the court order. And therefore, anywhere you look online, if you look up at Rachel and KG is there, you know, Wikipedia, it's like, if you look up in Keiji, it's Rachel. If you look up Rachel, it's in kg. And so, like, the two names are
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C
interchangeable, are just really.
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B
Yeah. And I. And I appreciate you reaching out. I remember you reached out a few years ago. I've been just really kind of trying to quietly rebuild and center and ground and like, not be as much out front and doing very many. You don't see a lot of interviews that I do. And. And I actually have done more than have been seen. Like the last two podcasts that I was on. I. They expected more sensationalized stuff or something. And so like, they never even aired it. Oh, wow. So it's kind of like I've done. I've really done a lot of careful work to fill in the nuance. And, you know, just a lot of the. The nuance was stripped, you know, in the headlines. So, like, really share the human versus the headline and people just wanna still talk about the headline, so.
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C
Of course.
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B
All right.
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C
So if it's okay with you, though, I would love to go back because obviously people know your name, but they don't really know who you are. And I've quite frankly. I remember when the headlines happened. I remember reading about it. And to this day I still, and I don't mean to. It's terrible. Cause I don't wanna sound ignorant by it, but I kind of don't get it. Like, you didn't. It seems like you didn't intend to harm. And you were doing things like you were the head of the NAACP in your region. You went to Howard University. It's not like you were doing things to harm that community. But the issue was. And the accusations were that you posed to somebody that you weren't by birth. And I think there were some accusations that you said you had gotten some hate crimes done towards you.
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B
Right. Well, those are absolutely verified by police records, so that's okay. My kids couldn't. My kids even found like one of the nieces that was hung behind our house. I mean, those. Yeah, pretty much. When the accusation of, oh, she has white parents. Therefore everything just, everything in my whole life got questions.
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C
Right.
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B
You know, and if you're called a liar, then nobody's going to listen to anything you say, so.
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C
Very true, very true. So if it's okay, I just want to start at the beginning a little bit. Like, where can you talk about where you were born, the family you were born into, what your childhood was like?
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B
Yeah. I don't want to go into too many details in the painful trauma aspects of my childhood, but I was born in Troy, Montana, on the side of a mountain. We grew up with less than enough resources. That's kind of one way to describe it. No TV, my entire childhood. And yeah, I have four black adopted siblings. I, you know, Trimontana was population 3,000. So let's just also say Very small town. Yeah. Very remote. And we grew all our own food and like hunted for, for meat, you know, for protein, and had chickens. But everything else, like bear and deer and elk and wild turkeys, we hunted with either archery or during rifle season. So. Wow. Yeah, it was a very, like, subsistence type of lifestyle. It wasn't, it wasn't some sort of like hipster, holistic thing that was like a privileged situation. It was kind of like more of a survival lifestyle, like out of necessity to grow things. Anyway, so then I, you know, I bonded really closely with my black adopted siblings.
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C
Were you an only child and then the siblings were adopted after you or they started before they came in before you?
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B
Yeah, no. And I was going to actually ask if you'd read my, my book, but so my oldest, the oldest child is my biological brother.
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C
Okay.
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B
And he is the one, the one who molested me and my little sister, who my little sisters adopted. But everybody else is, you know, I was a girl and my siblings, one is mixed and the other three are black. Basically. Like, in that household, it was very cultishly, like, religious. And so if you're a girl, you're a second class citizen. There was sexism and also racism. And so I was kind of like in the category of my sibling, my younger siblings, and like the white firstborn male, old, you know, like he. The oldest child, he was like the perfect, you know, the privileged one, basically. And so it. All of that really got triggered and brought back, even though I'd been through a lot of therapy and everything in 2015, because my little sister had a sexual assault case in Colorado where when they had moved to Colorado for a short time when she was young, anyway, that's where the sexual abuse happened with the older brother to her. And so they're like more than 30 instances of sexual assault. Well, I was so much older. Right. She had aged out at 18 from the group home. She's like, come get me. And I'm like, what are your goals? Let's, you know, she want to get into college, she wanted to get a driver's license, and she wanted to sue Josh, which was our older brother. And I was like, that's when I learned. I was like, sue Josh for what? And she told me, and it just like broke my heart because I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't know that happened to you too, because I'm only two years younger than him. And that's a little bit different dynamic than being like, you know, 18 years older. So she was like, 6 and 7 when it happened. And anyway, I was her key witness because I was the biological sister of the perpetrator. Also, I established that there was a pattern of abuse, right. If with my testimony in the court. And so. But the problem was it's in Colorado. Nobody knows anybody down there, right? And so in Washington state and in the north Idaho, that whole Pacific Northwest area, I was known as a civil rights leader, community builder. All that, all that work was unpaid, by the way. But I was also a professor, you know, quarterly professor. So that was like a quarterly contract basis. So easy to let go, easy to keep, you know, like on the basis of that no affirmative action, no equal opportunity, wasn't a full time job, tenure track position anyway, that, that job paid, you know, supplemented and kind of like paid for my habit of constantly volunteering, which has just been my, my entire life. I'm like a serial volunteerist. So I just love to give. I'm very nurturing person. So, yeah, I had a very great reputation. I was winning awards for my teaching and mentoring from the university In May of 2015, I was winning awards for my community as far as with data, actually making a difference in the community, right, against discrimination and police brutality and other issues. And so that was like, oh, my little sister might actually win her case, you know, and that older, perfect, privileged male child, firstborn, he could go to prison as a child molester. And so the biological parents, who I hadn't talked to for years because I had sued them for child abuse and one custody of one of my little brothers who I raised as my oldest son, Isaiah. And so we hadn't talked since that litigation, any of the extended family. So they basically were. Went on national tv because again, the case was in Colorado. The older brother lived in Iowa, they were in Montana. My sister was living with me in Washington state. So it had to be like national news to call me like liar, con, fraud, in order to discredit my testimony for her case. Okay, and so I was so tragic about all that. Is like it, it worked, right? And it just sent this big bomb off.
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C
Okay, so you're saying there was this whole case dismissed. Okay, so you're saying there was this whole case going on on the side when this all came out about you. Okay, I want to back up one second though, because this is all fascinating and I didn't know this and no, I haven't read your book and I haven'. It just hasn't arrived yet, so I will. I'm fascinated by everything about this and in doing the Research, you know, there's not. I mean, there are some details, but it's great hearing you really confirm what your truth is versus what the media says. Right, right. So I didn't know all that and I didn't know the timelines that matched up. But I just wanna back up for one second because somewhere along the lines, I mean, I get it that you had all these siblings who were adopted and were black, but is that when you started to identify? Like, because you said you're having, you're, you know, you don't speak to your parents, I assume it's still now, you know, and so it sounds like you had a really troubled childhood and I'm sorry for that. But do you think you started to identify in this black community because of the siblings you were raised in, or was there something deeper within you? Like, where did this come from?
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B
Yeah, and, you know, I get that, like, not everybody's going to agree with my decisions along the way and that's okay, you know, but the, it was a whole life time of decisions. When I was little, like, my first self portrait drawings were with the brown crayon, you know, instead of the peach crayon. Like, I have that, my very first self portrait, actually, in my book. Like a little picture of it. I have, you know, photos in the, in the COVID of me as a little kid and all that kind of stuff. I think I connected with oppression history because of the trauma in my childhood, being oppressed as a girl. And a lot of people aren't going to probably understand that that's okay. But I read like memoirs and autobiographies and history books of other people who had lived through pain. That all was before my siblings came into the household. And they were all little. Like, I basically had to homeschool in order to take care of them because the parents were trying to like, not have to pay taxes because they were so anti abortion and taxes funded federal abortions or something. Federal taxes funded abortions for the military. I don't know. It was like they didn't want to have to pay taxes, therefore they had to adopt a certain number of kids. To adopt white kids was too expensive, honestly, because back then it was $50, 50,000 for to adopt a white child and it was like free to like 4,000 to adopt a black kid. So it wasn't because they somehow like had, you know, some kumbaya, like racial reconciliation type of vision or international family vision. It was like, okay, number one, we're going to get more, more, more kids to do chores because that's pretty much all we did was, was do chores, you know, growing things and all. All this stuff. It's a lot of work to have to. To grow what you eat, you know, and also, like, they didn't have to pay taxes, so they're going to have get. They're going to basically save money and do God's work because God was calling them to do this. Then I was the designated caretaker. And so I dropped out of public school and homeschooled myself, ordered the teacher's manuals and taught myself trigonometry, everything, and took care of four babies. And they were, like, similar in age. And so it was like four kids in diapers. They didn't have money for diapers, so I sewed cloth diapers. And this is, like, a lot of cloth diapers to rinse out every day.
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C
Yeah, I'm sure anybody's rinsed a poopy
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B
cloth diaper in the toilet, you know, then you put it in a bleach bucket and you have to, like, wash it hanging out on the line. It's a lot of work. But anyway, so I was doing that homeschooling myself. I had, like, no social life. But the one thing that I think really bonded me with my siblings and kind of tied that thread from some of my feelings as a younger kid was, oh, like, this is actually unconditional love. Like, my bond with these little. Like, it was, I would do anything, you know, to protect these babies.
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C
And you didn't. And you didn't feel that way towards the parents or towards your older or your older brother.
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B
The love was very conditional. And then also, as a girl, if you try to talk about sexual assault, you're gonna get your mouth rinsed out with soap and have to sit at the table and write out scripture verses of what God will do to liars. Right. And so that kind of, you know, healing from that, being accused of making up your sexual. Like that. Some of those things were really big triggers, if you can imagine. Like, of course, then you're these same people, tell the whole world you're a liar. And that was, like, devastating on an intern. Just my own personal journey. Nobody else really had to carry that piece of it, but. Except my sister, of course, with her case. Yeah. So the fallout was. Was really bad, but it was like the parents had a private investigator following me because they wanted to try and find something that they could use to discredit me. And they couldn't really find anything other than, you know, these people might think she's Black. And they don't know that she has white parents. And that could be, like, salacious, right? Or. Well, and then also the police department, Spokane Police Department, which I was the chair of the Police Ombudsman Commission for Police Accountability, simultaneously as being president of the NAACP. Locally, 13 white male police officers had just killed a black man in a jail. Now, they hauled him in there, he vomited, they held him down, his mom and he died. And he was the father of seven kids. And it was this whole thing they're trying to cover up. And I'm the head of police accountability. And so there were, like, footprints in the snow around our house, like, you know, around, like, windows and stuff. I knew that somebody was following us. And it was like those two private investigators connected. And that's how it was. Like a manufactured. Because otherwise it wouldn't have been nothing but, like, local news. Like, oh, you know, she has white parents. Like, maybe, you know, if people didn't know that then now you. Now, you know, and then whatever happens locally. But, like, that didn't need to be national and international news. Like, my. How I identify why and how that all happened was like, how did that blow up around the whole world?
- [20:37]
C
So that's so interesting because that was the story. So until I'm talking to you now, like, I'm starting to hear how this all came about, but it definitely wasn't purported that way. You know what I mean? And what was very clear, though, and is still clear in talking to you, is that you are or you have been very well educated from yourself as a young girl all the way through going to Howard University, doing all these other jobs that you've had. You're well spoken, you're well educated. So this must have been very difficult and a big fall from grace. And I know how that feels and how hard it is to move on after the world and the media gives you this stigma. This episode is sponsored by oho. Are you having trouble sleeping? I know that feeling. Your body is exhausted, but your mind just won't shut off. You're tossing, turning, checking the clock, and then you wake up the next day feeling even worse. That's why I want to tell you about OHO and their BlackBerry hush gummies. Because this isn't just another sleep aid. It's something I've actually made part of my nighttime routine. These gummies are formulated with a really thoughtful blend of thc, CBD and cbn. So instead of knocking you out, they actually help your body naturally ease into sleep. You take one or I personally take only half, but about 30 minutes before bed. And what I love is there's no groggy, heavy feeling the next morning, just real deep sleep and you wake up actually feeling refreshed. So if you're struggling to fall asleep or stay asleep, you need to try this. Go to weareho.com that's w e a r e o h h o dot com and use the code Ms. Oh, 15 for 15% off. Trust me, your sleep will thank you.
- [22:24]
D
When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery. So you can keep your facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [22:55]
C
But I do want to like address a couple of things. So you went to Howard. Like why? Why Howard? I know that. It's like I looked it up this morning. It's like less than 5% are white. So by then you must have already been immersed in black studies in, well, you tell me what made you want to go to that university?
- [23:15]
B
You could say that as like a kid because all we had was a library. And I already knew from the amount of like black history that I read, I was like, okay, hair is important. And so I like studied how to do hair from books, not from tv, even from like Sports Illustrated magazines and stuff. Like so that I could do my little sister's hair. And back then it was like pink lotion and blue magic, certain products that were not available in Joy, Montana. So I had to special order these things. And so, you know, I took care of my little sister's hair and then also learned how to back. Back then it was like the high top fades, the flat top, high top kind of like the Wesley Snipes fade. So like I turned, I learned how to do all the haircuts and hair just because like I did not want them to be looked at as second class citizens. Because I wanted to like nobody was there to protect me as a girl in that household. And so I wanted to be there to protect them as black kids in this like country ass town, you know, of mostly white people.
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C
Right.
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B
And I also feel like it's not just like reading black history and resonating with that and my siblings, but also I went on to have a black father figure In Mississippi, unfortunately, past my junior year of college. And then I also had a chosen dad who was black as an adult, which was part of. I mean, he actually came to my classes in Spokane, like, when I was teaching at the university. He would come and do, you know, like, personal narrative type sharing whenever we're talking about black military discrimination. Because he was born in 1938. He wrote the foreword to my book. So you'll read his words if you. If you read that. He passed in 2018. I'm sorry, but I feel like I had, like, a second upbringing, in a sense, like a second family that was, you know, black. And that was kind of like a regrowth and, like, re. Like unraveling a lot of the psychological damage that I had that had been done and then rebuilding. And so part of that, too, was, like I said, doing hair. And, I mean, Since I was 18 and was in Mississippi, which is where I went to undergrad, so I went to Belhaven College in Mississippi, which was a majority white institution in North Jackson, and I lived in west Jackson, which was pretty much all black, because back in the 90s, it was, like, across the tracks and very segregated still in Mississippi. And my mentor, father figure was the first person to integrate Belhaven College. And I had read all his books and his dad's books, and his. Actually, Grandpa Perkins just passed away. Recent, like, recently this month, so. But his son, my father figure, he passed when I was a junior in college. I actually called him up, and I found his phone number from Montana, and I'm like, could you be my mentor when I go to college there? Because I've read all your books, and I resonate with all of your community building, community development strategies. Like, I want to help with that work. And they had an organization that basically, like, taught, you know, help people get their GED, helped with child care. I took care of, like, 25 kids after school who had single moms, so that they're. So that they were safe basically between, like, 3 and 5 when their moms got off work, because it was a very homicidal neighborhood in that area in West Jackson. And so it was kind of like, I wanted to protect people from pain, not just my siblings, but also other people. And that was kind of my vision. However, I actually got a scholarship for my art talent. And so that's what paid for my tuition at Belhaven. And then coming out of Belhaven, a lot of people in the black community back then and still, you know, HBCUs is a big. Is like a big thing to aspire to. But, like, back then, Howard was like the Mecca. Like, you want to go to Howard? You know, like, that's. And I felt like, because most of my art was my siblings and people that I knew. And so, like, a lot of my art was black portraiture and figure. And so it was kind of like, I always got teased at Belhaven College, like, why don't you take up, like, the ply to the Irish? Or, why don't you paint white people? Or, why don't you do this? You know? And so it's kind of like I can at least just be part of an art department at Howard University, where that's just normal to have black face and figure in your art. And it's not like, something that everybody else is not doing that. And so then I wanted that input into my art process. And at Howard, I had a thesis committee chairman, David Smedley, who actually, his. His mom, Audrey Smelly, wrote the book Race in North America. Origin and Evolution of a Worldview, which I recommend to everybody is he was like, look, you don't need to go, like. Because I was still at that point, being like, you know, people like, are you. Like, what are you. Are you mixed? Like, what are you mixed with? And I was like, I have these white parents in Montana, and this is my whole story. And, like, everybody's like, girl, I don't like.
- [28:49]
A
Why?
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B
That's just like, you don't need to tell me all that. Whatever. Like, we know you're black anyway, so just, you know, like, we don't even need to hear that. And he was. And I was kind of, like, having this existential, like, crisis, because I wanted to be honest. And then I also wanted to be me. And I also wanted to belong. And I also wanted to do the work and not be, like, some outsider to actually be inside the community doing the work. And so when I read that book, he was like, read this book. Because really, biologically, we're all members of black human race, and that's what the book is going to show you. So, like, just don't worry about it. Like, everybody has a black mother eventually, and it's okay to, like, connect with your more ancient ancestry. It doesn't have to be, like, your parents that you have to keep telling people about that you don't have a connection with. Anyway, so, like, I read that book, and that was very freeing. And at that point, I kind of, you know, just stopped asserting my identity. I would say, like, I. I just let people just. Whatever they. Whatever somebody assumed I Was. That's what I just kind of like, let it be organic, I guess. I didn't say, like. No, no, no, no, no. Actually, yeah. Yeah. And so that's it. Just kind of like for 20 years or so that evolved into that. That's how it was. And
- [30:17]
C
so let me ask you a question.
- [30:18]
B
It's still like that. Yeah.
- [30:20]
C
No, I can imagine. I can imagine. But it is fascinating.
- [30:24]
B
Sorry.
- [30:25]
C
No, go ahead.
- [30:26]
B
I. I just was at a. Renewing my CPR first aid training that I keep current for disability caregiving, and yesterday, and there was a girl there who had freckles, right, and was white passing. But she told me, like, in on a coffee break, she's like, I'm the only one that looks like this in my family. And like, I, you know, like, what are you mixed with? And that's, like, now a question. I'm like, so I'm like, okay, so my parents are biologically white. And, you know, I have a great grandma that sunk Papa Lakota. But I also have, like, 10 North African ancestry by DNA chart. But then I also had this second black upbringing, or I was kind of like, you know, I had black father figures and I have black siblings. And this is like this long. Like, she was like, girl, I was just trying to say, hey, what's up? You know, like, I was just trying to, like, relate, you know, and so it's kind of. It's just like now I'm like, so I have so much anxiety about this. This demand to go to my, you know, abusive childhood, but also, like, to declare that every time and then also to describe, like, who I am and why I still, like, pretty much just look the same, do my hair the same as, like, it's just like, I'm still me and I. I don't know how to be somebody else or how to go back to being 12, you know, or.
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C
I totally understand everything you're saying, and I'm getting it. I have a question. Leading up to 2015 and even leading up to school, I mean, how do you feel about white people?
- [32:09]
B
I think that, you know, part of humanizing any group is understanding that there are good and evil people in every group. And so, like, for example, like, I've dated white guys. Like, it's not like I have, like, a super big prejudice or something towards the white community as a whole. However, I would say I might have a little bias against, like, older white people in the south, you know, and, like, when I was going to college there, it was, like, kind of hard to connect with Some of the. Yeah. White Southern community, especially, again, that, like, older generation that has, you know, more kind of just like, not aversive racism or subtle racism, but just, like, outright, like, you know, race it. Like, I'm gonna treat you differently. And I can. I can attest to the fact that that does definitely happen and has happened to me. Like, I can tell when somebody's racializing me as white or black and how. In how they treat me differently, like, awkwardly or not or whatever. And so including police, like, it's. It's just.
- [33:23]
A
Yeah.
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B
So I guess I have. I have probably a bias in that sense. But. Yeah, I mean, everybody's human, right. And I'm like, for everybody to get it.
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C
I want to just go back for people that don't know. In 2015, you've now brought up that there was this case and people. You feel like people were looking for a reason to discredit you in terms of what the media says. They said that while leading the NAACP in Spokane, you were outed by the media. I think you suggest it was from your parents leading them on the media. Somebody from Spokane, Washington, says that he thought it seemed odd, and essentially, I mean, these are his words, not mine, saying something like, you weren't as black as you pretended to be or were asserting that you were. And he thought that there was a story there and then this bec. National news somehow. And I think the big question, you know, was that was.
- [34:23]
B
I think that was like the reporter that was saying that, but that. That it wasn't just the white parents, little, you know, personal investigator. It was also the spd, the Spokane Police Department. They answered to the mayor, and I answered to the mayor as the chief, you know, chair of the Police Ombudsman Commission in that case, where the sheriff's department and the police department both had their necks on the line, because it happened at the county jail where the man where Lorenzo Hayes was killed, and it also happened with police officers from Spokane Police Department that brought him in to the sheriff's territory, basically. So the highway patrol was in charge of the third branch of law enforcement was in charge of investigating that. And in the wake of, you know, everybody trying to be like, is she black or white? That was swept under the rug, and there was no prosecution of the police for that.
- [35:20]
C
Got it. So that got lost in translation through all of this.
- [35:23]
B
But intentionally.
- [35:25]
C
Yeah, intentionally. I get it. But in looking back on 2015, and that became the story, is she white? Is she black? Why is she presenting as this one person? And I heard many Interviews or things that came out of your mouth which would say, listen, it's complicated. It's more than, okay, I'm white, but I identify as black. Like, can you kind of talk about that a little bit? Because there's a line between cultural immersion and identity appropriation, and I think that that gets blurred. But I will be honest. Before I had this interview with you, I didn't really get it, and I get it now from your story. To me, as an outsider, it sounds like you had a terrible experience growing up with the white people in your life. You identified with some people in your life, in your family who were black. That was your immersion into it as a child. And it was a choice that you found your home and your life. And then you made the choice to continually, like, as you got older, to have a black family that you got to choose. You now got to choose, or somebody suggested to you, but a name. And that's all been. It's not like you've been open to that, but it's kind of the life that you live because that's where you felt the safety.
- [36:35]
B
And.
- [36:36]
C
And that must have been taken away from you in 2015, where everybody questioned that. So I just. I wanna know, like, do you think that you misled people or do you think that, like, do you get it? Do you get why there was such an outcry then of people saying, well, what is she? Why can't she just answer if she's white or black?
- [36:55]
B
Yeah, I mean, I've sat with, like, the feedback. It's been 11 years. I have sat with a lot of hurt that was caused, not just my career and social community life, but. And destroyed privacy and all that, but also the misunderstandings in the black community. And I think there's a difference between, like, the intentions and what was going on, like, actions and work that was happening versus the impact of how everything was presented in that one narrative. And that's. The media really turned the story into something that caused a rift, especially with black women.
- [37:32]
C
Right.
- [37:34]
B
And that's probably the group I hear from most also in terms of, like, just so you know, like, I'm a black woman and I support you because there is this narrative of, like, every black woman is going to be against her because she created, like, the. Caused the ultimate offense or whatever. So that's. That's kind of like what I've sat with. And I. I definitely feel like I understand it. I get it based on what was said. I mean, like, yeah, who would want to have, like, some con ill Infiltrator. Somebody who's like, not a part of the community somehow, like being an outsider and trying to do stuff on a fake basis, but like, you can't fake actual community development and anti racism work. Like that is very deep and intentional and difficult, difficult work, to be honest. And so, for example, when I was. I didn't actually apply for the job of the NAACP president. I was nominated by the secretary and treasurer. And it wasn't like some, oh, I have to identify as black or I have to say something about that. It was because in North Idaho, I had been the director of education for the Human Rights Education Institute, which was born out of ending the international compound of the Aryan nations up there. And it was kind of a preventative measure to try to prevent further hate and white supremacy from rebuilding in the community in North Idaho. And people had seen me in the area go from 3,000 people a year as an audience to 30,000 people a year, like really impact schools and large groups of people with the programs of the hrei. And that work is why I was nominated by the treasure, the treasurer and the secretary for to be on the ballot. So there is like an election and only the incumbent was running. And it was like, I wasn't even at that meeting because it was the first meeting of the Police Ombudsman Commission. And so the NAACP is like, is anybody else running? And they're like, yeah, she's running. We're putting Rachel on the ballot. And because people had talked to me like, would you be willing to do that? And I'm like, yeah, I'd be willing.
- [40:06]
C
Did they question your race back then?
- [40:08]
B
Nobody? No. And in fact, like, I mean, the, the secretary was white. And just like the NAACP has always been a mix of. Even the founders were a mix of white and black people.
- [40:22]
C
Okay. So it's not like what the media presents that this was so unheard of that a white woman was at. Was the head of the naacp.
- [40:30]
B
You know what was unheard of is I was the youngest NAACP president and one of the few female NAACP presidents in the entire nation.
- [40:39]
C
So that was all that just added a kick to it that you were white or born.
- [40:43]
B
And my parents were white.
- [40:44]
C
Right?
- [40:45]
B
Yeah. And so that like. But also like my. My adoptive dad, chosen dad, whatever. Like, he was in my life. Right. And his wife is Scottish. And so again, a lot of people are just like assumed that those are like my bio parents. Right? Because I'm like, this is my dad. He's like, this is my daughter. And you know, we had There he's like a grandpa to my. To my kids, to my sons. Take some fishing, you know, it's like. Because he could see that that piece of my life was missing, like, extended family. And so he showed up in that way. And so, yeah, like, he. It's kind of like, you don't have to explain everything to everybody. Was sort of what people who loved me felt that I shouldn't have some kind of an unfair demand put on me by every single interaction. Now, if there was, like, an application that said, like, pick a box, that's where people are. Like, well, you just checked black, and then you took a job from other black people. And it was like. I think a lot of people didn't even know that I didn't even apply to the naacp. And number two, that job is unpaid, by the way. And then the police ombudsman commission job was unpaid as well. And me being a professor of Africana studies kind of came about in a weird way, just because I had enough graduate credits in black studies from my grad school at Howard to teach undergrad Black studies. And I actually was an art professor because I have a master of Fine arts degree. So I was an art professor, but they were cutting. Under George Bush Jr. They were cutting a lot of the funding for art departments. And so they're like, well, we need. We have a big need for professors over in Africana studies. And yet, you know, you went to Howard, so could you teach this class? And then it was like, my classes became popular. I mean, I was a younger professor, and so then it just turned into, like, oh, we have more of a need over here.
- [42:46]
C
So, like, do you think at any point then that. That they saw. Right. But do you think at any point then they actually thought, well, this woman's black, and this is a position for a black person, so that makes sense. Or it just wasn't even a question. It was like, you had the experience, and so you were just. They gave you this position.
- [43:04]
B
That position as a quarterly professor is not necessarily. I mean, it's a position for somebody who has enough credits in black studies to teach it. Right. Regardless, one course to, you know, Introduction to Race and Culture Studies 101. You know, something like that. Like, African American history. African history. And I was the only one on deck that there was no, like, competition where somebody else didn't get the job. It was kind of like, I was like, no, we have nobody to teach this class. And can we, like, move you from the art department over here? Because we really need to Fill this class. And then that's. And then it built in terms of enrollment in Africana Studies. It was. The intention was to build that into a major, a minor and then a major too, so to expand the Africana studies department. So, like, they. The admin wanted to keep adding classes. And I think just like that reporter who's like, oh, this doesn't look right. Like, I think she might be like, not as black as she is as people think or something. Because, like, when I look at her, I see like something like a white person or something. It's like I feel like there are a lot of people who had probably a question mark but didn't care or didn't ask me.
- [44:28]
C
Right.
- [44:28]
B
And then there are other people who had. Who assumed just. I mean, like, with. We could look at. So I have my reading glasses here just in case I need them. But because you're blurry. But, you know, because I'm 48, that's okay. You're blurry.
- [44:42]
C
Because I'm 51, it's fine.
- [44:44]
B
I understand it. But yeah, like traffic tickets. Right. And with police. Because I've done the police training, you know that nobody asked you, like, roll your window down, are you black or white? Right. Like, they don't. Nobody asks you because they want on that ticket for the cop to racially identify you. So then the cops. Racial attitudes about that group that they are putting you in is what is described in how they treat you. Okay, so I have W, which is white. I have U, which is unidentified. And I've had black B for black. So it's like I've had all three. So it's. But that's how other people peripheral basis with, you know, like ethnically indeterminate or something. I don't know. But then.
- [45:33]
C
But that's how others. That's how others see you, right? As opposed to how.
- [45:37]
B
Right, yeah, well. But that's how racism works, is how others see you and what they then do, you know, either like, include you or exclude you based on that.
- [45:46]
C
That's a very good point.
- [45:48]
B
And personally, I don't believe in the race worldview. Racially, we're all human. And culturally, I identify more with black culture than white culture. It's not, to me, like, that's not a biological thing. Culture isn't biological. It's learned behavior and it's association with a set of values and kind of a loyalty to community. So, yeah, like right now, my daily life is kids. I. I have three sons. My youngest has autism. So, you know, a lot of autism. Interventions. I am a master gardener with University of Arizona, which is also an unpaid position, because that just seems to be what I do. But anyway, I grow food, over 2 tons of food a year here in the desert, which is, like, a very challenging climate to donate to people who need food. So it's kind of like, that's just quiet work. Like, I'm not. It's just, you know, again, the impact and the intention are what matter to me a lot more than, like, some kind of performative thing. I want to be grounded in integrity, and that's. That is very important to me to center that. And so I kind of, like, don't want to cause conflict, and I don't want to be offensive to people. And, for example, like, I. I have tried. People are like, why aren't you involved? Why don't you go back to naacp? Why don't you do this? And I have tried more overt things that are like. Like the African American Museum, Museum of Culture here in Tucson. I volunteered there. Right. And I helped get the Crown act passed with Katie. Katie Hobbs, the governor here in Arizona. Mm. Which is against discrimination for black hair. Right. So basically, you can't discriminate in the workplace because a person has locks, braids, weave, whatever. That's what the Crown act was. And there was, like, a push for it to be adopted in all 50 states. I helped get that passed with Katie Hobbs. But, like, that big headline was, you know, fake black person, Rachel Dolezal masquerading as in ktl, like, you know, pushes this through, like, under this, you know, deceptive. I don't know. Like, it was just like, well, how does that feel? Then it was like I got disinvited to volunteer at the. You know, because it was like, negative press. And so I. So I get kicked out of spaces because of negative press. Let's just say that. And then I just kind of. So I kind of just like, stay with the plants, because the plants really don't care. They just like to be nurtured. Right. And that's a safe space. It's been a healing space for me to grow. And also, people need food. And so I can imagine that that's
- [48:49]
C
been really hard for you after this scandal, because again, as I said before, you have a lot of education behind you. You're well spoken. And to see that it's been hard to get jobs as Rachel or as Nkashi. Am I saying that right?
- [49:05]
B
Again. Nkechi.
- [49:06]
C
Nkechi.
- [49:07]
B
Sorry.
- [49:08]
C
It's gotta have been hard for you. And also, as you're talking. It's so obvious that you are into philanthropic work and you like to be helpful, and you like to be helpful of other people when I feel like other people have not shown you that same grace, it sounds like. And I know it's been hard for you because I've read and you've talked about how difficult it's been, and you're talking about what your jobs are. I saw that last year you made headlines again. And it's sad because you say you want to stay out of the headlines and you want to be credible and known for your work and just kind of leave it at that. But you were fired from another teaching job that it sounds like you got for them finding out you had an OnlyFans. So what happened there?
- [49:54]
B
Yeah. So, you know, again, it was a media narrow frame, how that was presented. My son's elementary school had a need for substitute teachers, as a lot of schools do, right. And if you don't have enough subs, then the specials like music, art, pe, Those teachers have to sub for that main class. And so then nobody is getting music that day or art or PE or whatever. So they were kind of like, you know, asking the FFO family faculty organization, like, is anybody, you know, if you have the credentials, like, we need subs. And I was like, well, I want to help out. Like, I don't want my son to not have art or PE or whatever that day. But also as a sub, you get to be an ea, which is an educational assistant to kids with disabilities. And that also has, like, a vacuum, like a gap in spots to be filled. So I became a substitute teacher. Like, you can imagine that doesn't pay much. I actually stopped creating only fans in March. I became a sub in that fall. Like, August, I think it was 2023, because I got fired in February 2024. So I was kind of like, in my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm going to leave my account open because I still need, like, you know, that residual income. But I'm not going to create anymore because I was kind of just over it. And during my subbing, I did. There was no, like, overlap. I was like, going home and then creating OnlyFans stuff. And then, you know, which my only fans is just, like, pretty much me. Like, it's not.
- [51:31]
C
I also don't really see what the big deal is. Like, everyone's on Only Fans. It's supplementing some people's lives as long. I mean, I. Again, if your content is. Is easy content, it's different than you know, you could be doing all sorts of wild things and then to be a teacher I get. But if you're saying your content was not, you know, still it's like well
- [51:50]
B
my content had evolved from like I have Hashimoto evolved from like autoimmune disorder fitness, you know, wellness to then like my kid. We have some pretty big college bills here and like I am going to go into Savage X Fenty which is Rihanna complimented me publicly a couple times. I'm like I'm going to just promote her lingerie. So it is, it is explicit, it is like self play some of my work. But right now I am about 3/4 of the way through a certification, 300 plus hour certification program to become a sex coach. And I feel like, you know, because if you know I'm gonna have to be self employed or do something and having an only fans if that's going to ban me from any and everything related to education. But guess what? Sex off. We all, we all need you know, to have a balance of pleasure and intimacy and relationships are a big deal right now. Especially with post COVID isolation. There are a lot of lonely people and important stuff. I mean just like facts like some, some of the lubes out there like will literally like melt your toys and give you, you know, you're putting toxins into your body if you use it. One lube versus a different loop. Like that's you know like important information. So I'm kind of like I'm on board with education about sexology and sex coaching and that's you know, that's kind of like where I'm at right now.
- [53:25]
C
Wait, I want to hear more about that. I have a quick question about OnlyFans. Did you start it with like anybody else who starts it that's like listen, this can really supplement my, you know, my financial wealth right now. And this is why I'm doing it.
- [53:40]
B
Yeah, I mean I guess I started as like a one piece of many things because I'm an artist. I have my art website and that never has been like the main income which I would love it to be. But it just now is fine art and it's you know, peripheral to what people need and want sometimes. So I have, I've tried so many different ventures but only fans. Started as somebody developed a wiki feet page for my feet apparently like foot fetish. People thought they were cute. So like I started with foot content. Quickly realized that you know, you need to be naked with your feet showing. Like that's like nobody Just wants to see feet. But. But they wanted to see like your butt sitting on your feet or whatever,
- [54:20]
C
you know, like, did you do well with your only fans?
- [54:24]
B
I. It was kind of like a dribble, right? It was kind of like maybe a third of my income type of situation. So it was, it was there and it was, you know, but then it actually really went crazy when somebody leaked some nudes on Twitter. Okay. And that's when I got a whole bunch of subscribers that month. Right. And so that had happened before I even became a sub. I thought that was like public knowledge that I had only fans anyways, you know, when I, I was like, that was like blasted in the news and TMZ was like, you know, she's trying to promote Rihanna's lingerie and I don't know, it was just like one of these. That was a big media moment that I had an only fans because of nudes being leaked on Twitter. Right? Yeah. So in terms of the sex coach
- [55:13]
C
thing, I read something you said. You said that you're going to have some field trips in your program like that.
- [55:20]
B
Oh yeah.
- [55:20]
C
What. What does that mean?
- [55:23]
B
Oh, well, the Sexology Institute. Like a lot of, a lot of programs, like you have to go to a sex toy shop and shop. I mean, a lot of people don't know that Amazon, like if you buy a sex toy from Amazon, they allow those to be returned. So you might be buying a used toy.
- [55:41]
C
Stop.
- [55:41]
B
And so like you might want to boil that if you're buying it from Amazon. But if you go to an actual local section toy shop like that, like, you know you're gonna get a brand new toy. So that's, that's something good to know, right? So you need to know your local shops and what they offer so that if you have a client that wants, you know, maybe they have a BDSM kink or whatever they have, you know, and like this would be the place to get leather stuff. This would be the place to get, you know, whatever, sleeves for guys, masturbation sleeves. I don't know. So like you kind of need to know like the toys, the best lubes to use, where to get them.
- [56:21]
C
So. And your goal, and your goal is eventually, so you could have a clientele people can reach out to you and you can coach them on sex.
- [56:30]
B
Sex. Yeah, that's what, what the training is to have one on one clients, right. Even if that's strictly online, like zoom sessions or, and texting and phone calls and things like that. And, and, or to have workshops which Also can be online.
- [56:44]
C
Oh, nice.
- [56:45]
B
And so I really see this as a way to tie in my education in terms of, you know, sexology is actually an academic study so I can still help people and educate people. So that's that little thread that ties over. But yeah, I'm, I'm excited about it. I'm learning a lot as you can probably imagine. And I'm, I'm not just a single mom. I'm like a sing mom. So it's like, you know, it's like with a, having a special ed son, like that takes. I have sole custody. His dad's not involved at all. So it's kind of like it's a 247 job.
- [57:24]
C
Are you dating at all?
- [57:26]
B
I have dated. Yeah.
- [57:27]
C
But are you like on Bumble?
- [57:29]
B
I'm not, I'm not like dating anybody right now. Like I have, I might, I might have some dates coming up just because like if I have time to check in on Facebook dating or something, I'm like, do I want to go to coffee? So I'm kind of like actively trying to date. But I also like, oh yeah, can you come and get drinks tonight? I'm like, no, because I have a kid. Like I have to plan that. I don't have to.
- [57:54]
C
I understand that. I mean I just got married, but I was, I raised a 13 year old daughter myself and three dogs and like I had a whole life going on. And sometimes you're not available. But are you on like, are you on Bumble or anything?
- [58:08]
B
No, there are a lot of the like, like Tinder, Hinge, I think Bumble as well. Some of them are all owned by the same company. And so I've gotten banned from a lot of those because other people are pretending to be me and then they get banned and then if I, you know, try and sign up with my pictures, they're like, you're not really her. She wouldn't be on here. So that's your, you know. So I'm on like Facebook dating. I've tried like time left is something that's not really dating but it's just like you can like have a, like coffee on Saturday at 3pm with five people that are trying to just make connections in the community and get to
- [58:48]
C
know like speed dating or something.
- [58:51]
B
No, it's more like just finding friends and networking. But you might find somebody that's that you want to date. But it's not like, like it's just kind of like having coffee with people. Like have a social life. Right? Because I'm Self employed. I have, you know, a few. Few friends, a few hair clients still, and that kind of thing. But it's like, I don't get out a lot in my little gardening community. Most of us are just plant nerds and introverts. So we just meet up at the garden and I train interns, you know, how to grow food. And that's not like something that we necessarily see each other outside of. So, yeah, I'm making efforts to have a social life, but it is tough.
- [59:31]
C
Yeah, I can imagine that. Just three more questions. So after the fallout of this 2015 scandal, whatever you want to call it, how have you. How do you feel? Like, do you feel so resentful about everything that's happened? Do you feel remorseful? Like, what. Listen, I've been through a scandal. I know when you have years or decades in between it, you can think about it in a different way. And I just am curious about how you feel about how your life has turned out since then. And where do you see it going? Like, what do you. Who do you want to be in the future?
- [60:07]
B
Yeah, I guess, like, what I've really landed on is, you know, yeah, I have a lot of mixed feelings about what happened. Right. And it's the past, and you can't just, like, find your way looking in your rearview mirror. So I've gone to therapy. I have a therapist. I've done trauma work. I've, you know, I. I continue to do the work, which is also showing up for accountability. Like with the Sexology Institute, we have professors, we have, you know, group discussions. We have things that, like, being accountable to the communities that I'm in, the gardening community, that community, my. My friends and family who are in the black community, who, you know, like, people and. And supporters and fans in general, I guess. So there's that. And so I kind of, like, feel like I want to be in safe spaces, but also be accountable, if that makes sense. Like, I want to be grounded in integrity and not some kind of, like, forced to perform for everybody and go on all these podcasts and be like, I'm transracial, which I've never claimed as a label, but, like, a lot of people want me to do that, right? And they want me to, like, be entertaining and be dramatic. And that's just not really for me. I want to be sick in a calm place and a reflective place and parent my black sons and teach, you know, that teaches advocacy in of itself, just being a parent and what matters and navigating this society with the, like, the Manosphere now is, you know, the racial polarization, the politics. Like, it's just a lot happening right now, and I hope that I can be a positive voice, you know, and. Yeah, just kind of wanting to focus on my art and the community beyond the headlines, but also just, like, behind the headlines. Like, I have no desire to be in the spotlight and famous or going on a bunch of stuff. Like, I. That's just never was really me as a person. I'm just. I'm so happy to just do quiet work that nobody sees, you know? And as long as my kids are good and my sons are so successful and so amazing that I'm just so proud of them. My oldest is 31 now, and he's married and living in Australia, and my.
- [62:35]
C
Is that the one that started as your brother that you adopted?
- [62:38]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. But, yeah, 100, like, my son, period. And. And, you know, that's our relationship and his relationship with his brothers. My two younger sons, too. And that was very awkward for him when this all blew up in 20, you know, like, just for everybody to be like, that's really your brother. That's not. You know, and it's kind of like, dude, he just. It was his 21st birthday when all this hit, you know, so that was like. Just. That was not. You know, my kids have been through a lot with the media and, like, go tell your mom to jump off a bridge and do the world a favor and stuff. Like, people. People, you know, harass them, and that's not fair. And I. I just want them to be, you know, in their own safe spaces, have all the opportunities that, you know, maybe I don't have or have lost or whatever. So that's my focus. You know, their future is my focus. 100%. Yeah. And I also want to help people in my local. You know, finishing my sexology training is definitely important. This season's garden is. It's already triple digits here in the desert, so, you know.
- [63:51]
C
And you brought up a term, transracial. Can you explain what that means for people that don't really know?
- [64:00]
B
Well, that's not a term I use. That's something that was pasted on me in 2015 because the same month and year, Caitlyn Jenner came out as transgender. And so everybody is like, oh, Rachel, do. I was, you know, transracial, that, you know, it's like, ding, ding, ding. And I'm like, transracial actually had a meaning before that, which was adoptees into families, like, say, white parents adopting Asian kids and black kids. And whatever, then that's a transracial family. Like, it wasn't like a biracial family that, you know, had, you know, two people of different identities having, like, mixed kids or whatever. So that. That already had a meaning. So that was kind of, like, weird that people were calling me transracial because that also technically, to me means transhuman, because I don't subscribe to the race worldview. I. I know that's a social construct. And as I said, I also know that racism is very real. It's something that people do to each other. And so that duality exists. Right. Like, I.
- [65:03]
C
But the meaning of what they tried to put on you is that you were born something and you moved into the opposite or something different.
- [65:10]
B
Right? Like. Like assimilation, you know, culturation, citizenship inside another group. Like a transition. And I get that. That's, like, what people were thinking. I do agree with, like, Melissa Harris Perry. I think she, as an academic said it best. She's like, well, you could be considered trans black, and that would be, like, descriptive of your journey. And that. I. I can work with that because that's like, you know, a descriptive thing that. Yeah, like, I started somewhere else. I can also be okay with people calling me whatever the they want to call me, because honestly, like, I don't care. I already know who I am. And it's a hard one, very contested identity, I guess. But, like, it's. I have had plenty of time to think about if I want to switch up or do something different. Right. And it's just who I am. So I just can't. I don't know how to be somebody else. And that's just, you know, I don't need everybody to agree with it or understand it or whatever. I just want to focus on the work I do, the people I help raising my kids.
- [66:13]
C
I love that answer. That's a really good answer. If you could rewrite your story, would you do anything differently?
- [66:21]
B
I really regret how my story was presented in the Media 100. But, like, I can't control that, you know, like, other people's actions I can't control. And if I could go back in every single moment instead of letting people assume something like, insert this complex story, I don't know if that would actually be, like, more awkward or less awkward because it's like, at the grocery store, like, again, like, when I do that, people are like, that was a lot. And I didn't really need to know all that. Like, so maybe just like, say you're not white, or I don't know, like, whatever. People. People have their different ideas of like, well, because you're 10 North African, then it's like, well, but that's really Arabic. But then you're not Arabic. But then you're like, right.
- [67:05]
C
And it goes down, and it's just.
- [67:07]
B
It just goes on and on. I really know, again, like, what my values are. I'm going to stand with my values, and that is part of cultural values as well. I'm going to stand behind my kids and my sister 100%, always. And that's my family. That's the extent of my family. I don't have any other family right now that I talk to or that I interact with, you know.
- [67:32]
C
And so you identify culturally as black? Is that how you would say it?
- [67:37]
B
Yeah, I would definitely say that. That's, you know, racially as human, culturally as black, gender is female. There have been some people online that have been. Even been like, I don't think she was really. She has, like, male features. Like her nose or something. Every part of my body has been picked apart. It's just ridiculous. You know, everybody's like, that thing that she ate in, that one picture was white. This other thing was black. Like, terrible.
- [68:05]
C
Last question. What do you want people to understand about you that they still get wrong?
- [68:12]
B
I really hope that, you know, I don't. I don't. Like I said, I don't really need everybody to understand or agree with me. I just hope that people give permission for everyone to really have their most misunderstood parts handled with compassion. I. I just really hope that's my hope, you know, for people, for the future. I don't need to be accepted or included or whatever. I've already lost that. I'm already on the periphery of pretty much everything, and I'm. I'm comfortable there, in a sense, because that has been where I landed at different times in my entire life. So I also hope that people kind of can just understand that, like, identity is complex, it's messy, it's personal. We need to have honest talks and not just cancel people. You know, like, we need to actually. We used to have these, like, academic discussions, and now it's like, I don't want to hear it. You disagree with me. I'm right. Period. Block, you know, and it's. It's like, we don't have that nuance. We don't have that ability to listen and comprehend, like, hear out somebody and say, like, all right, well, this is what I agree with you on. And this other thing, like, I disagree with you but we can agree to disagree and still acknowledge each other as human beings. Yeah. That want clean food and water and like our kids to thrive and things like that. So. Yeah.
- [69:48]
C
Well, I really appreciate you for trusting me, for taking the time to do this. I really do feel like I understand your story more. Not that you need my, you know, any approval from me, but I get it. I really do. And I do wish you the best. And I hope that with time it gets easier and every day. I know that you're not out there a lot, but I know from going through something similar, different scenario, that credibility is the thing that we worked very hard for. And when that's taken away or people decide it's taken away, that's a really hard thing to recover from. So no matter how many kind of renaissance moves you make and try to change and do all these things, it's really hard because you might be doing really well on one path and one person can derail you. Cause it's in your bones now. It's like, in your feelings of, like, God, you know, just let me be who I want to be and let me live my life. And when they're still wrapped up in your choices, hopefully now you're starting to realize that's a. They're triggered by something. And.
- [70:50]
B
Yeah, then we have to. We have to live forever with that, like, waiting for the other shoe to drop. Like, you know, there's never probably going to be a time when I can 100% just relax and trust somebody that I haven't known my entire life.
- [71:04]
C
Yeah.
- [71:05]
B
That hasn't ridden with this, you know, like, with me through all this, because the plug can just be pulled that fast.
- [71:14]
C
But I wish that for you because I have felt that many times. And I can tell you that, you know, I just got married. I have not known this person my whole life, and yet I have learned that I can relax and trust him with everything. With my past, with my future, with my current state. And that is a great place to be in. Cause I didn't think that I was gonna find it. I don't know if I felt like I deserved it. You know, there was all sorts of psychological things that were going on. But I wish that for you and I wish that people give you grace in hearing your story. So thank you for trusting me. And, you know, I really wish you the best of luck.
- [71:54]
B
Thank you.
- [72:02]
C
Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yukatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five star rating and review. You can support the show by joining our patreon@patreon.com misunderstood with rachelukatel. Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out? Email us@infomisunderstoodpodcastmail.com that's spelled M I S S. Understood. Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time. Are you really buying a car online
- [72:35]
B
on autotrader right now? Really? At a playground?
- [72:38]
D
Yeah, really. Look at these listings from dealers.
- [72:41]
B
Wow, your search can really get that specific. Really? And you just put in your info and boom, car's in your budget. Mom needs a second.
- [72:48]
C
Honey, you can really have it delivered. Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership.
- [72:53]
B
One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.
- [72:56]
C
Mommy, look.
- [72:57]
B
I think your kid is walking up the slide. Kyle.
- [72:59]
C
Again?
- [73:00]
B
Really?
- [73:00]
C
Autotrader.
- [73:01]
D
Buy your car online?
- [73:02]
C
Really?