The Real Story Behind Wayward: My Time Inside the School That Inspired a Netflix Nightmare

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "The Real Story Behind Wayward: My Time Inside the School That Inspired a Netflix Nightmare"

Podcast: Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel
Host: Rachel Uchitel
Episode Date: October 6, 2025

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Overview

In this deeply personal and revealing episode, Rachel Uchitel addresses the real-life inspiration behind Netflix’s hit series Wayward, exploring her harrowing experience at SEEDU, a notorious therapeutic boarding school shuttered for abuse. Moving beyond headlines and TV dramatization, Rachel gives an unflinching account of the school’s methods, culture, and lasting psychological impact on its students—including herself. The conversation is raw, emotional, and courageous, shedding light on the hidden realities of so-called “troubled teen” programs and reflecting on the broader implications for youth and family interventions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. First Reactions to Netflix’s Wayward

• Rachel describes watching Wayward as “going through post traumatic stress disorder,” with scenes eerily similar to her memories.

  • (00:05, 01:44)

  “When I watched the series, I was kind of going through post traumatic stress disorder...I couldn’t fathom that what was in my memory...is just verbalizing it. But when you watch it on TV almost exactly as I experienced it...So it was very fucked up.”
  — Rachel Uchitel

• The show generated renewed interest in the stories of those who survived these schools, echoing previous headlines like Paris Hilton’s exposé.

2. Arrival and Induction at SEEDU

• The typical student experience involved being deceived—told they were “going for a tour,” only to be abandoned by their parents, unable to contact home for at least a month.

  • (05:29, 08:15)

  “It’s that first moment of, like, betrayal. Like, how could your parents do this? Can’t call home for a month.”
  — Rachel Uchitel

• Many students were forcibly taken ("kidnapped") at night or rerouted from wilderness programs or psychiatric wards.

• Rachel shares her own path: starting with a psychiatric facility, learning “how to go off” to be allowed to stay, and ultimately being sent to SEEDU without her knowledge.

3. Communication Restrictions

• Communication with family was tightly controlled—15 minutes every two weeks, monitored by staff, with strict rules against sharing negative feelings.

  • (10:34)

  “If you say anything like ‘I hate it here, come get me,’ the call ends...You just have to say how happy you are.” — Rachel Uchitel

• Cannot go home for nearly 18 months, even then for just a brief visit and only after achieving specific “phases.”

4. SEEDU’s Therapeutic "Phases" and Rituals

• The infamous “leap” in Wayward was based on a series of real-life “prophets,” adapted from Kahlil Gibran’s book.

• Each “prophet” was a grueling, often overnight group process involving psychological breakdowns and “emotional breakthroughs” (truth-telling, childhood trauma reenactments, digging graves for one’s own eulogy, etc.).

  • (13:53, 16:00)

  “They tell me I have to stand up. But the other group, my peer group, they’ve told all of them...do not let her get up. Push her down. The staff are down on their knees with you, screaming in either ear, ‘get up, get up, get up.’”
  — Rachel Uchitel

• Music—like “Mother” by John Lennon—played at high volume, manipulated emotions, and provided a backdrop to these rituals.

• Students frequently sobbed, experienced forced catharsis, and, in a particularly harrowing story, a peer was effectively waterboarded in front of others as “punishment” for being gay.

  • (19:13)

  "They poured...I guess it was salt water or something in this kid’s mouth, almost like waterboarding him...fucking terrible, terrible." — Rachel Uchitel

5. Synanon Roots and Cult-Like Tactics

• SEEDU’s program was modeled on the Synanon cult (originally for substance abusers), which centered on public shaming, “hot seat” confrontations (“runs of anger”), and continuous enforced self-disclosure.
• Staff had little to no professional training; often they were SEEDU graduates themselves, perpetuating the cycle.

6. Lasting Psychological Effects

• Rachel reflects both on “skills” gained (resilience, directness, ability to read people) and deep emotional scars (difficulty with typical emotional responses, feelings of alienation).

  • (24:30)

  “I think I have a lack of emotion about things...a lot of the emotion came out of it because I had to go through so many things there and get so in touch...” — Rachel Uchitel

• Many alumni do not keep in contact; some actively avoid acknowledging their past.

7. Academic Life and Daily Regimen

• Manual labor, farm chores, and woodcutting were major components of daily “education”—academic pursuits were nominal and did not equate to regular schooling.
• Strict rules governed every facet of personal life—from uniform and grooming to restricted music (only artists like John Denver or John Lennon).
• Infractions led to bans (being ostracized from peers) or increased work and solitude.

8. Escapes and Aftermath

• Some students attempted escape; one, Daniel Yoon, was never found. His story has been featured in mainstream investigative media.
• Town authorities were complicit; escapees were routinely returned.

9. Reflection on the System & Its Purpose

• Debates whether the severity of “rewiring” troubled teens is ever justified; acknowledges some benefits but condemns trauma-laden methods.

  • (31:05)

  “They’re rewiring the brain by adding even more trauma that you didn’t need in the first place...” — Interviewer

• Rachel admits she would not send her own child, advocating for more transparent, family-centered, short-term programs.

  • (47:37)

  “… I do believe in it that way…as long as you have people that really get it and get the intention behind it, I do think they’re valuable. But clearly, you know, when it’s based on a cult and it’s not, you know, when there’s no transparency with the parents…I would never send my daughter to one, I’ll say that.” — Rachel Uchitel

10. The Ongoing Conversation

• Rachel is seeking further dialogue—with the Wayward creator and other cult survivors (Tori Spelling, Sarah Edmondson from NXIVM)—with hopes of spreading awareness and supporting others affected by these schools.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rachel on Betrayal:

  “It’s that first moment of, like, betrayal. Like, how could your parents do this?”
  (08:15)

• Reenacting Ritual Abuse:

  “You’re screaming and cheering, ‘I had the best time,’ when it was like, abuse all night.”
  (13:53)

• The SEEDU Motto:

  “See yourself and do something with it.”
  (37:16)

• On Institutional Cruelty:

  “They break you down to build you up.”
  (36:50)

• Personal Consequence:

  “A lot of the emotion came out of it because I had to go through so many things there... I think I have a lack of emotion about things that a lot of people... cannot get over in their own lives.”
  (24:30)

• On Academic Value:

  “…I don’t know algebra. I don’t know stuff like that. Because chemistry... the science we did, we had to learn how to make our own gorp to be able to go on our wilderness trip.”
  (42:47)

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 00:05 | Rachel’s first reaction to Wayward and PTSD triggers | | 04:07 | Explaining the intake process and arrival at SEEDU | | 10:34 | The reality of monitored, restricted calls home | | 13:53 | Description of "prophets," punishment, and emotional manipulation | | 19:13 | Synanon origins and cult-like raps/the “hot seat” self-confrontations | | 24:30 | Long-term effects and emotional detachment | | 31:05 | Debate over therapeutic intent versus added trauma | | 37:16 | “See yourself and do something with it”—the SEEDU mantra | | 39:43 | Financial structure, government involvement, and insurance funding | | 44:36 | The myth and reality of group water rituals (“watsu”) | | 46:53 | Escapes, missing students, and media coverage | | 47:37 | Should therapeutic boarding schools exist? Rachel’s nuanced take | | 49:40 | Wrapping up; hopes of further dialogue and advocacy |

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Conclusion

This episode stands as an unsettling but vital contribution to the dialogue about therapeutic schools and trauma, demystifying both the sensational portrayal of Wayward and the painful truth behind it. Rachel speaks candidly about her suffering, survival, and the complex aftereffects, warning against secrecy and advocating for transparency. Her story is a call to examine not just the “bad kids behind the headlines”—but the systems that shape, scar, and sometimes save them.

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Recommended further listening:

• Rachel’s earlier episodes on SEEDU and missing student Daniel Yoon
• Sarah Edmondson’s podcast (NEXIVM)
• Tori Spelling’s upcoming interview with Rachel on this topic

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Transcript

[Interviewer]

As I was watching this show, I thought back to an interview I did last year with Rachel.

[Rachel Yukatel]

You could tell a new show aired called Wayward. When I watched the series, I was kind of going through post traumatic stress disorder. I'm on all fours and they tell me I have to stand up. But to the kids, they've told them without me knowing, do not let her get up. You had to be in the ascent phase to go on your 14 day trip, which is what they show in Wayward. Mine was in Joshua Tree. Seven days in, they get us all back into a group and they say, you're doing a four day solo. Give you a tarp, they give you a bucket of water, they give you a book, and they give you a diary. There's a terrible story that I don't even know if I should share. Maybe we should cut this out. But I will. This is so fucked up. So sorry that I'm crying. So, guys, we have been obsessing this week. On Monday, a new show aired called Wayward. On who? Wait, what is it on Netflix.

[Interviewer]

Netflix.

[Rachel Yukatel]

On Netflix. And the way I found out about it is Kiki. Monique had sent me a something she had put out on her Twitter and her YouTube saying how incredibly insane this new docu series was and how much it reminded her of the interview that she had done with me. I do interviews all the time, right? But only rarely do I get asked about my experience at this therapeutic boarding school that I went to from age 13 to almost 17, a month shy of being 17. And when I do talk about it, I explain it's a therapeutic boarding school that was shut down for abuse. And no one really gets it, so they don't ask me that much about it. The only real talking point is that Paris Hilton, you know, did a docu documentary about the fact that she went to one of these. Not that I'm saying what she went through isn't accurate, but she only went for a couple months. She did not go and graduate. I literally was there for three years, graduated, did the entire program, never lived at home ever since. So my story is. Is a. Is the real story. And when I watched the series, I was kind of going through post traumatic stress disorder. Like, Dan, thank God, Dan was sitting with me, but he was like, rachel, are you okay? Like, because I couldn't fathom that what was in my memory, you know, what comes out of my mouth based on my memory is just verbalizing it. But when you watch it on TV almost exactly as I experienced it, I hadn't seen Something like that, since the vision of me actually being there. So. So it was very fucked up. Now, I know I asked you to watch it this week and you watched it. What do you want to tell people about it and your experience in watching it?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, and it's fair to say, like, this is going to include spoilers, too. I just wanted to make everybody, like, know. I, I don't think there's a proper way of explaining what you went through, Rachel, and what is in the show without, you know, spoiling it. So, like, I think this is a, A fair warning. And if you haven't watched it, maybe this is the part where you pause, you go watch it and then pick up the, the Patreon backup right here. But I, I want to know, since you graduated, did you ascend? Did you hit the ascend phase?

[Rachel Yukatel]

So the phases weren't called that. I can tell you all about what our phases were called, so I can tell you what were things that were changed for TV and what was real. But the things that were changed for TV were based on reality, so I could tell you what they were called. But before we get into that, for people that want to hear what it is, it's a story about a school that these bad kids were sent to by their parents. And it was a school that once you're in it, even the parents did not know what was going on. And it's a story of these two girls and obviously everyone else that was at the school and the main sort of principal, the teacher who's running this facility and what goes on and how terrorizing it is to these children. Anything else you want to add from that about what it's about before we get into it?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, no, I think we're going to get into the specifics behind everything in there. But no, you laid it out perfectly. Yeah. These were in rebellious, rebellious type teens that were being sent to us.

[Rachel Yukatel]

It was definitely for kids who were rebelling, having issues with their parents. Some of them were sent from the state that the, that the courts sent in, but most were brought in by their parents. So.

[Interviewer]

Correct.

[Rachel Yukatel]

To start in the show, you see a girl getting sent by her parents and what, in the middle of the night, two. Two or three people come in and put a sack over her head and the parents are seen standing there and the sister and the girl just gets taken. That is actually. That is actually accurate. That is what happened to most kids that would arrive there, unless they arrived from the court, then they came from juvie hall. And then in my case, I Was, oh, a lot of kids come from a wilderness trip. They are kidnapped like that. It's called kidnap. You know, kidnapped. They get sent on a 21 day wilderness trip that's different from what you see in the show, but 21 day wilderness trip where they basically have to survive. And then from that 21 day they are brought straight to Cedu. Now in my case, and George, I don't know if I've told you this, my mother sent me to a psychiatric ward and she had me there. They do a month long intake to see if you need to be there. After being there for a month, they concluded I did not need to be there and they were gonna release me. But while I was there, I don't know if you've seen another movie. It's called Girl Interrupted. Angelina Jolie was in it and Winona Ryder. That was my experience being in the psychiatric ward. Okay, So I loved it there. I thought it was amazing. The kids were all from 12 to 18. They were there for things like being truant, which means like not showing up for school, drug addiction. One girl that was my roommate was there because she got herself pregnant at 12 and a half years old. You know, all the kids, they weren't like psychotic, but they were having problems in their life at home. They were troubled kids. So when I went there, I was just really not getting along with my mother. And, um, there were some incidents where like, we were absolutely not getting along. And she, her therapist told her that this was the place to send me. So I went there. And after a month, when they told me I was going to be released, I did what I learned on the unit. And it's called going off. And it means like, you go crazy and they come, like the people in the white crazy suits, they come and they bring you and they put you in a padded cell and they tie you up like this, like where your hands are all tied up straight jacket. Straight jacket. And you have to be monitored. And so in your doorway, an actual, like, nurse sits in a chair in your doorway and you're monitored 24 hours. I had to do that for like a day. And then so the girls were teaching me how to do that. They said anytime, you know, when they come up to you, start yelling. When they come up to you, start throwing whatever is around you. And then when they try and subdue you start to, you know, kick everything and like move around and that's what'll happen. So I did that. Then they, when I finally got off of, out of that crazy room, they, you know, bring you to it. You know, like, they bring you to the doctor, and the doctor's like, what the hell's going on? You've never had this behavior before, and you kind of act crazy. You're like. You act not like yourself. So I did that because I hated my mother, and I loved being there. I was the president of the unit. I got to do whatever I wanted. You know, all these kids are talking about things that they're kind of, you know, having a hard time with. I didn't really have that, besides hating my mom. So I had a great time. Okay, Right. And so I ended up staying there. And eventually they're like, we can't have you here. Like, you have to leave. So they convinced my mom that there were some boarding schools that I could go to so I didn't have to go home. Some were regular boarding schools, and some were called therapeutic boarding schools, which they suggested. So my mom told me that we were going and whatever she did behind the scenes to decide that Sidu was my school, she did. And we got on a plane. We get there, and she says, we're just going for a tour. Now, when I was there, this is how a lot of people arrived. Their parents told them they're going on a tour. They go. They show up. They don't know their parents have packed a bag, and they go on a tour with kids while the parents are supposedly meeting with the adults and while they're on a tour. Like, I remember with me, I was like, the woman, the girl, she was 14, brought me into the dorms, and she said, well, this is going to be your bed. And I said, oh, I'm not staying. She said, okay. You know, she knew the drill. She knew that we all, that nobody thinks they're staying, and they are. And then I go back down to the house, and the headmaster and all the staff kind of bring me into the office, and they're like, your mom decided to leave you here? And I'm like, what do you mean? I don't have any clothes. And they're like, you do. She brought all your stuff. So it's that first moment of, like, betrayal. Like, how could your parents do this? Can't call home for a month. So I'll tell you the things that are accurate in the show and. And tell me if you saw these things in the show. There's a phone. There's a phone call that. You see one.

[Interviewer]

It's like 15 minutes a week, right, that you gave.

[Rachel Yukatel]

So it was. Yeah, for me, it was 15 minutes every two weeks. I think in the show they show it as 10 minutes, but they have the clock up on the wall. It's a phone in a private room, which is true. And there's a staff member in there with you. If you say anything like, I hate it here, come get me, the call ends. It's not like they grab the phone out of your hand. They have a buzzer near them. The call goes dead. So you can't say you don't like. There's all these rules. You can't say you don't like it. You can't say you're unhappy. You can't say you know what you're going through. You can't say, well, I'm working. I got in trouble, so I'm doing this. I'm on the cross cutting team. I'm working in the wood section, I'm working at the farm. You can't say any of that. You just have to say how happy you are, you're making friends, all that stuff. And again, it's once every two weeks. It's terrible. But you have to wait a full month to have that call. This is for the entire time you're there. Okay. You don't even get to go home until you're like a year and a half in. And you only get to go home for like three days. And that's if you've hit what they've called the ascent phase. For us it was just. It's called. You have platforms and you. The first one, you know, they're all different platforms on how you're. They trust you.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, okay, okay, okay, yeah. Their trust in you because you're buying into the psychological brainwashing that is happening on a second by second basis.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Right? Right. So after. So now I'm going to tell you they have something called leap, which seems to be something that everybody is scared of. And they act like there's that one moment where they do the leap. So that's. That is not true. That is a version of the truth. And the truth is they have, I think it's like six or seven what they would call leaps, but it's called profits. And it's based on a book by Kahil Gibran. And each prophet, they only tell you, you know, six hours before you go in. You go in in the middle of the night and you don't know what it is. You have no idea what you're going into and you come out a different person. So the first one is, I think it's Called the truth. The truth shall set you free. That's the first leap or the first profit. Three months later you do one called the Children's. The second one is like the. The I and me. The third one is something about life. I forget what it's called. But these are. These are all parts of your stages. And every time you come out. This is crazy. People are not going to understand this unless you went to Sea do or one of these schools. So you go in and everyone in the school is all like, oh my God, they're having their profit. They're going into the I want to live profit. That's one of them. And so we disappear in the middle of the night. We come out, let's say at seven o'clock the next day. You never know, but they. They gather the whole school around and there's a main room. And you. What they do is they put on music. And if I thought about it, I would be able to tell you what it is. It's like Superman theme or something like that. And you come, they tell us to go. And the whole school sitting there waiting in a semicircle. It's actually making me feel weird, like talking about this.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, take your time with it. Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

You come running out and you're screaming and like, you feel so good. You're so brainwashed. Okay, like, again, I didn't know I was brainwashed. You feel so good at the end of these profits that you're like, the music is playing really loud. You come out, everyone's screaming and cheering for you. They have no idea what you've been through. And you're screaming and cheering like, I had the best time when it was like, abuse all night. So one of the experiences in the. I want to live just to give you guys an idea of like what these leaps are and how it changes you. They play songs to have you have an emotional response, but they have an activity that's supposed to change your mindset. So one of the things, there's a song, and I don't know who it's by. It's. It's called Mama. Maybe you can Google it while I'm telling you. Ellie's gonna google it too. And the words are like, mama, you left me, but I never left you. I. Something about wanting your mom. And then the words are about your father maybe too. Anyway, so there's a group of you, and if I'm. I'm the person having this, I'm on all fours. And they tell me before the music starts, they tell me That I have to stand up. And I'm thinking, okay, this is Easy Mother by John Lennon. There you go. So they tell me that I'm going to just stand up. And I'm like, okay. But the other group, the group, my, my peer group, you go through everything with this peer group and it's a group of people that are admitted within the same month as you are. So it's about 15 kids. And they've told all of them they have to put all their hands on a part of my body. Okay? So everybody's doing that. They say as soon as the music plays, Rachel, you get up. But to the kids, they've told them without me knowing, do not let her get up. Push her down. So mother starts to play and it's as loud. It's all the speakers in the whole room and, and the staff are down on their knees with you screaming in either ear, get up, get up, get up. So this is like very emotional cause it's really loud and all the kids are pushing. And then the other staff members are in the. Sorry. Are in the kids ears who are standing up and they're yelling at them and they're saying, this is so fucked up. Sorry that I'm crying. They're yelling at them saying, push her. Do not let her get up. Then as it goes on and on, they're saying to me, who you know, get up, get up. And I'm trying my hardest. And it's painful cause you can't get up. And everyone's pushing you down. Then they're screaming, who is the person that doesn't let you get up? And they're talking about your parents. Because you know, a lot of the damage that happens with people in their life is in their childhood. What did your mother do? And they know you so well because you have to tell your story every week. They make you like talk about all these things, so, so they're, they're just in your head. Your mom did this to you, your father did this to you. The person who, if it's someone who went through a molestation or whatever, so. And so your uncle molested you, they did this to you. And then the kids that are pushing, they're crying too because the staff in their ear is like, who. You know, who do you push down all the time? Who did you abuse? Who did you. You know, whatever they're dealing with on the pushing level and not supporting level, they're getting yelled at. So everyone's fucking sobbing and the music is so loud and it. Okay, so Anyways, you get the point. These are the activities and experiences you have from maybe 9 o' clock at night until 7 o' clock the next day, where you are just up all night and you go through these crazy things. They talk in the. In the show about how the kids had to dig a grave and write a eulogy for themselves. I don't know if you caught that. We had to do that in one of our profits. You had to dig a grave. It was winter, so with a spoon, I had to write my own epitaph. The only reason I know that word is because of Sidhu. I had to write my. What somebody would say about me when I. If I was to be dead. And you had to lay in this cold grave and someone stood over you, a staff member stood over you and read the epitaph. It was so fucked up. Okay, so shit like this, that affects your brain.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. All right. And I. Okay, I'll let you gather yourselves there, because that's super. That's very emotional. And it's like I said, I think it's like it's psychological warfare for the betterment of what is. What I always was left asking myself, especially during the show. So I guess I'll ask you, was there like a greater purpose at the end of it? Was it like religion based? I mean, because, like, this is. It seems like it's its own. Like how everybody's calling it cult. Like where it's its own set of rules, there's this own profit. Was your headmaster the person that everybody wanted to be, or was it somebody else that they were all trying to aspire to be as well?

[Rachel Yukatel]

No. So I'll answer your question, but to start off, I just want to say there's a pamphlet that gets handed to the girl by her headmaster at the other school before she goes to this school. I think they call it Trail Pines or something. And it says, see yourself as you really are and do something with it. My school is called sidu, and they told us SIDU meant see yourself and do something with it. What I came to learn only less than a decade ago is that SIDU stood for Charles E. Diedrich University. And Charles E. Diederich was the founder and head of a cult called Synanon. And Synanon was based on a cult that was started for people who are alcoholics and people who had drug addictions. And they would do things like what they called the hot seat in the show, Wayward, we called them raps. Monday, Wednesday And Friday, from 1 until 5pm you sat in the rat. And you were in a circle, and you would be in the hot seat. And so that's why she called it hot seat in the movie. But. And you would have to do something called run your anger, which they talk about, where unless you are face down, screaming at the floor, like they did in the movie, where the kid starts crying and snot's coming out and all the kids are yelling at you, you haven't done a good job. You have to run your anger. And after that is when everybody will put their arms around you, be like, I love you so much. I'm so proud of you. But up until then, they'll be like, you did this, you did that. You're this kind of person. And there's a terrible story that I. I don't even know if I should share. Maybe we should cut this out. But I will. In a rat, there was a kid who was dealing with being gay. He was maybe 14 or 15 or something. And they. He. I guess it was part of his story. Like his parents didn't like that he was gay or he. He was dealing with being gay, whatever that means. Okay? And I can't remember. Cause again, I'm 50 and I was 13 or 14 at the time when this happened, right? But I remember the staff member getting up and kind of walk into the back of the room, and usually no one got up. The staff member also sat in a circle and they got up and they went and got something out of a cup and they walked around to the back of this kid. And this kid's getting yelled at about, I don't know, being inappropriate maybe with boys there or something, I can't really remember. And it turned into a conversation about his gayness and how disgusting he was for being gay. And what ultimately happened, I'm not going to get into the details, but the teacher made him turn, put his head back, and he poured like, I guess it was salt water or something in this kid's mouth, almost like waterboarding him, okay? And was screaming at him about, what is that like, having that come in your mouth? Like, fucking terrible, terrible. And this kid was. I mean, traumatized and was choking and the kids are yelling at him. That's the kind of stuff that would go on there, right? So anyways, for the betterment of stuff. Depends what you think is better. You don't believe somebody's gay, okay? They were trying to get the gay out of this kid, right? For me, I graduated there. And what's so fucked up about it? The day that I graduated I was sobbing. I didn't want to leave. I felt like that that was my family. I never went home again after that. I went to a boarding school for a year, and then I went off to college. And I felt like I was losing my home because at some point, you know, my father. I could talk about this for hours, but so at some point, my father died. When I was there, I was alone. My father tried to have me escape. He sent me money to escape with and to run away with. I did run away a couple times. It's. It's just like that. They go searching for you. Everyone in the town is in on it. If you flag a cop down, they will bring you right back to the school. It's very scary trying to leave. And so when my father died, I knew I had no option to get out. So I just was like, I'm going to. I'm just going to embrace it. So I became the head of the dinner dishes committee, which means the kids that got in trouble, I was the one that gave them their punishment. I told them, you're the one scrubbing the floor with the toothbrush. You're the one doing this. I mean, I was their leader, even though I was part of the school. And so it was sad for me to leave. And so a lot of the good qualities, whether you call them good or not, about me having gone there, I can read people really, really well. I can read emotion. I can. I know when someone's lying. I'm almost triggered by that, because you were not allowed to lie there. If you lied, you got in trouble all the way from, like, you know, just the littlest thing. So also, I'm very transparent. Like, I'm very direct because you learn how to speak that way. I'm very open because once a week you had to share your story and tell all these things. But I think I have a lack of emotion about things that a lot of people, you know, like if someone dies or if there's something really tragic that people are like, they cannot get over in their own lives, it doesn't affect me like that because, you know, I. It just doesn't affect me. Yeah, a lot of the emotion came out of it because I had to go through so many things there and get so in touch with things that I'm not stuck stifled by. By emotion like that. And I've learned, like, good. You know, their habits, by the way. I do not make my bed every day and all that, but we had everything. We cleaned up, we took care of animals. I Had to chop wood. There's a scene in there about the kids carrying wood in the background that is an ode to sea doo. For six months, your first six months, when you're there from nine until 12 until lunchtime, you are down chopping wood. Huge redwood rounds. You know, we were like cross cutting. And then when it gets the cross cut is done, then you chop the wood. That is what the wood is that. That heats the whole main house and he. And heats the systems that are there. Your second six months, you're. You're working on a farm and you're taking care of all the animals. I put bar. I put PVC wire in the, in the Barbarossa's den filming. And so, you know, those are the things that I learned from being there that I think are very good things and qualities and experiences. I had to artificially inseminate a cow. Can you.

[Interviewer]

Jesus.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Never having to do that. No, they taught me how to do it. I had to do it. I mean, insane shit that, you know, no one would. Would ever be doing.

[Interviewer]

I. And this is where I am glad you tied it all together with the synonym cult or synanon cult. And yeah, I wonder, have you. Before I go on, on the way that I view this from an outsider's perspective, have you ever been to a 12 or Alcoholics Anonymous or like, have you ever been to any anonymous classes?

[Rachel Yukatel]

I've been to a class only because I went to celebrity rehab and, and they would let us leave three times a week because the kid. The people I was in celebrity rehab rehab with were all dealing with a drug addiction. Right. So I went to those with them because we had to be a part of it.

[Interviewer]

Got it.

[Rachel Yukatel]

I've also been to sex and love addiction meetings because I was there for love addiction. So I've been to all those meetings.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Rachel Yukatel]

I don't. I've never struggled with an. An addiction like that. So I, I or that. But I'm aware of it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Because the way that I viewed it, as a person who's been to like sex addict anonymous classes before, I was like, this is just the process. And, and so when I look at a school like this, I just like all the benefits you listed, like, I saw it, you know, dealing. I was a special education teacher with students with emotional disturbance. The amount of rewiring that you need to do to people that have had extreme trauma early in ages that have led them to that point. Now, it's not easy. And I'm not saying that the methods that they were using were Correct. But the methodology of you need that intensive support if you ever want them to see the better version of themselves. And. And I think it teaches a level of self sufficiency at early age that a lot of kids these days, you know, will never really have to experience. So it's very old school style of thinking. Just because modern technology has coddled us to the point where there's still like 40 year olds living at home.

[Rachel Yukatel]

You know, it's such a good point that I actually never thought of. I mean, you're right. You have to rewire your brain. I mean, I can think of plenty of lazy kids and even kids that came in. There was this guy, Shane Irbish, who came. He was a ward of the state and he came there and he was part of a gang, like a crazy gang. His brother was in prison for scalping, like literally removing the scalp of somebody and killing them. And Shane was a scary, badass kid from like, you know, Watts or whatever and was eventually, you know, eight months in, taking a knitting class. I'll never forget sitting on the couch up, up in the main house knitting during his free period because of all the work he had done. But he was very, you know, he would be in the hot seat in those wraps and he would be shaking with anger and not letting anything out. And eventually he got into it and he would be screaming at the floor and he would get it and he would soften up and every day soften up. And I loved this kid. And unfortunately he's in prison for life now because even after the fact, I think he, maybe 10, 15 years after the fact, he got in some trouble and ended up in prison for life. Which is terrible because I went to school with these kids. And the weird thing is thinking that all these people were my family members because we, we bonded over such trauma. I don't speak to any of them. Like, it's very strange. Everybody went off on their own paths. There's one person I live in the same community as, she doesn't even acknowledge that she went there. She tells people that she knows me because we went to a fancy boarding school. It was fancy in the way that it was like $90,000 a year, but insurance paid for a lot of it for some of these kids. And it was not fancy by any means. It was a fucking nightmare, you know, and again in 2010, it was closed down for abuse. So, you know, but so I can't ever talk to her about it because she just totally doesn't acknowledge it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And I. So let's I guess we've done our part in, in highlighting the good that this place can, can bring. But at the same time, I mean, I, I think it just, it gets outweighed by new trauma. So it's like when I say rewiring the brain, it's almost like they're rewiring the brain by adding even more trauma that you really didn't even need in the first place. So it's just kind of like replacing it. But I am a firm believer and I wish there was more schools that are similar to that, but could, you know, approach it in a way where the family is involved. So it's not like this isolation, alienation, you ruin the family type of vibe.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And I think, listen, I have the woman. Well, I won't say who it is, but I know someone who did send their child there to a similar school in Vermont. I think it was. They were upstate New York and that there's been a, you know, over time I think it's changed. So now these are schools that do not do such work. That's like childhood. And they only have to be there for a semester. Yeah, for sure. So I think there are schools out there like that. But I mean, did you have any questions after watching the show or any.

[Interviewer]

Thought the grooming, uh, were. Was it like group showers? Did it like. It seemed like everything was just monitored to a T at this place. So like I was like, how do these kids have any sense of privacy? So like what was that whole process like of getting ready? And did they. Was it cold showers? Like fill me in on all that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay. So that was made for tv. That's not what it was like. We lived in, in. So sea doo was. It looked like a big community on a, on a, on a piece of property. So there was a main, main house. It was called the house. And then there was dorms. And they look like dorms, right? But they were like cabin looking dorms kind of. But they were pretty nice on the inside because we kept them so clean. And they were, you know, it wasn't hardwood floor. It was like carpet to make it more warm. The shower, you had your own bathroom to the dorm.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And then there was a shower in there that you all, you know, you shared the bathroom and you shared the shower. So I noticed they all had a uniform on. That is not what we wore. That was an exaggeration. But what's interesting, we had a certain allowance of what we were allowed to wear. Everything had to be tucked in. Nothing could be tight. It Was like. T shirts had to come a certain length. You couldn't wear any black. You couldn't have a. I believe you couldn't have a belt. Or did you have to have a belt and always have it on? I can't remember. But there was something with belts. Um, so. And you couldn't wear heels. It was only sneakers. You couldn't wear open toes, though. It was somewhat of a uniform. But you could bring your own clothes there. When you arrive, they go through your bag and they take out anything that would be deemed too sexy or. Or too tight or whatever. You couldn't really wear a dress unless it went all the way down and really was loose and covered everything. But you had to have a belt around it, so it wasn't too flowy, that kind of stuff. And then in terms of music, I noticed that they were playing music in one of the scenes. I'm forgetting what it was. And I turned to Dan and I said, I bet you it's gonna be a John Denver song or something like that. We could only listen to John Denver, John Lennon, you know, there were certain acceptable music, even though we were in the 80s and 90s, that things that were from, like, the 70s that you were allowed to hear. Which is kind of interesting, too.

[Interviewer]

So the next question would be, the workers that. Or the instructors, did they seem as whacked out as, like, how the show portrayed these people?

[Rachel Yukatel]

So not whacked out in the way that they made them seem. Like they all had special names and you didn't get to know them. I believe that that was an ode to the fact that we may have known their names. A name of Martin or Jill or whatever their names are. We knew their first and their last name, but we really didn't know anything about them. Like, they told their story. They told who they were, they told what they went through, but it was like a shell. Like, we really didn't know anything about them. They had no real credentials of being doctors or nurses. A lot of them had actually gone to the school and were graduates. And we're still having you do these things, so. So do you see how that's like. It's based on a true story. So that is true, but it was. It was different, you know, for sure.

[Interviewer]

And. Because then that leads to. Did you guys as students ever rebel? Was there ever a moment in which you guys were all like, fuck these guys, and you kind of, like, had an. An uproar and lock the doors on them?

[Rachel Yukatel]

So there was no locks on the doors. And there in My three years that I was there, there was no rebelling. But I will say there were times when people ran. Ran away. That some of them may have been in groups. And then they're on what's called a ban. So if you do anything bad, you become on a ban. If you and I were speaking inappropriately or we ran away together, I would be on a ban from you. I had to act like you didn't exist. I couldn't talk about. You couldn't talk about. Couldn't be in the same room as you. Some people, when they would get in trouble, they would be on a ban from the entire school. I remember getting in trouble. I ran away. I was sent to juvenile hall. Cause I hitchhiked down the hill so that no one in the town could see me. And the police picked me up and sent me to juvenile hall. Cause I wouldn't tell them what school I went to and where I was from. And when they brought me back, eventually found out that I went there, I was on a ban from the entire school. I had to sit by myself at one table in the corner for the meals. I couldn't look anybody in the eye. I had to do writing assignments. And then from 9 to 12, and then from. I would be in a rat. But on the afternoons, we didn't have wraps. From 1 to 5, I would be on work assignments. Which meant, like, you saw all those kids in the fields doing work. That's what I would be doing by myself. But I couldn't talk to anyone except for a staff member who was allowed to come sit at my table or stand with me when I was working. Just to have a conversation with me, to get in my head and be like, how dare you do something like that? You know, and talk badly to me. So I started to, you know, they break you down to build you up.

[Interviewer]

What was the mantra at your school, if any? Like, you know that one saying that they keep repeating in the TV show, like your mother or you're lying on your back.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Your mother standing over you.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Was there anything like that that I. That I remember? But they had a lot of sayings, for sure. But the one say saying was see yourself and do something with it. That was the saying.

[Interviewer]

Wow. Yeah. The messaging, it's not the worst, but it's just. It's how they go about it, which is just crazy to me that it would be also at the price point that it's at. Which leads me to ask you, like, deeper questions as far as how do these things start and get Funded. And do you think at the, the core of it, this is just a way that governmental elite type people can, you know, control and test different methodologies of teaching? That's, I, I mean, that's looking at it like from like a conspiracy theorist point of view, but like when you, you hear about something like this and you're like, well, insurance could take it. And it's like, damn, man. This is just, it just seems way bigger than just this one idea of a school like this. Seems like a coordinated effort to start building a generation of people that are built like this, you know, so it.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Started with Sidu as a private school, okay. But then because Mel Wasserman had this property that he offered up for the use of the Synanon culture, this, this school, right. And then they built other schools in Provo Canyon, and one was called Provo Canyon. I guess it was in Provo, Idaho. Where? Utah. Yeah, there was another one in Idaho. I forget the name of that. So there was a. I think there was a total of four that we would always hear about, but Cedar was the first one that got started and the main one. So as a private school, you know, not many people knew what was going on. The government didn't have to know what was going on. Right. But because it was a therapeutic school now they could get funding and say that it cost $90,000, $60,000, whatever it was, and be getting this, these kind of money to fund these huge campuses of things. Although there weren't a ton of staff because we were doing all the cleaning and, and up.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Because there was no, there was no other staff like that. But, you know, there was things that they had to do. I'm sure there must have been a lot of insurance they had to pay for. They paid for the staff who live very nicely. But you know, the only kind of trips we did, they send us on. They sent us on three different wilderness trips while we were there. One is a three day, one is a five day, one is a 14 day. Based on where you are in the school, you had to be in the ascent phase to go on your trip. 14 day trip, which is what they show in Wayward. And they give you, you know, we. Mine was in Joshua Tree Desert. And you either have. Based on the time of year, you either go to Joshua Tree or you go to San Gregonia Mountains. And so they show us a map, they give us a place. We have to be 14 days later. But like seven days in, they get us all back into a group and they say, you're doing a four day solo and they give you a tarp, they give you a bucket of water, they give you a book called Jonathan Livingston Siegel that you can read, and they give you a diary. That's all you have for four days. Can you hear that drilling? Sorry.

[Interviewer]

No, no, no, it's. I don't know. I'm just stunned, Rachel. I mean, like, you. You out of all people, by the way you doing that, it seems unfathomable. Like, and I know you're. You're definitely tough and strong now, but, like, you live like the bougie lifestyle on. On Instagram, and that's everybody's perspective of you. So, like, seeing you with a tarp and a bucket of water having to survive for four days is just so hard to believe for me. And I. Now, I wonder, like, you brought up the trip. Was it. Did you have a handbook? Is the next thing I wanted to ask you.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Did I have a handbook?

[Interviewer]

Yes, yes. Of rules?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Handbook. Yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Okay. All right. I just wanted to get that checked off the list.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And they were crazy things all from, again, tucking all your shirts in, not flirting. You couldn't be sexually active with anyone of either sex. You. You couldn't pee in the shower. Like, all. All the gamut of various, you know, all sorts of rules. But there was a lot of rules.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And like, we couldn't wear makeup. So I remember I would get in trouble because they had CarMax. And if you got some allowance from your parents or whatever in the store, I would buy CarMax. And I got blown away in a wrap in the hot seat once because they said I used my CarMax as a crutch for lipstick. So I was on a ban from CarMax for like two weeks because, you know, they said I was using it.

[Interviewer]

Jesus.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Inappropriate way.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, this. Oh, my God. All right, let's see what else I could ask you here about this. What other education was there other than these, like, life lessons? Was there any math? So when.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah, when you graduated after the three years or two and a half years, however long your program was. So I was just a year, a month shy of being 17. It would have been technically in the middle of my junior year. I had enough credits to graduate from high school because you actually get a credit for everything you do. So the six months that you start there and you're not in any academics, that counts as school. I don't know how they count it for, like, real life stuff, but it equates for stuff on your transcript so you don't miss Anything. And you could graduate second six months in the farm. Same thing. They make up different names. So for your transcript, it evens itself out. And then later on, you start to get into math and history, but it's not math and history like we all know it. That were learning in normal school. I don't know. Algebra. I don't know stuff like that. Because chemistry, you know, the science we did. We had to learn how to make our own gorp to be able to go on our wilderness trip.

[Interviewer]

You had to make your own what?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Gorp. It's called, like, dry food that you take with you on a wilderness trip.

[Interviewer]

Got it. I've never spent a night alone in the woods, so I did not know. So it's like you're basically creating your own dog food.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yes. But your own human food. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Gorp.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah. Gorp. G, O, R, P. It was like you would take fruit and put it in this thing, and it dries over a course of 14 days. So that's your dry fruit food. You know, that kind of stuff that they would have.

[Interviewer]

Interesting.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Was there ever a moment in time where you were just with, like, the instructors and the higher up and they had you in water and they were yelling at you.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Oh, right, that scene. So it wasn't like that. There. There. They had a moment where it's called Wat Sue. I don't know what that stands for. I wonder if we could Google it. And it means something where they try to bring you back to the state of being in your mother's womb, and you float around. I've actually seen that offered at spas, so it's not as aggressive. But they do do a sort of thing with. With watsu. You were correct.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Watsu is that.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Okay, so. And it's supposed to make you feel like you're part of your mother's womb or going back to this stage where they're talking to you. So they do do that. I think they. Again, they try to make it into the more of this thing because they didn't, you know, to put what goes on in profits and how it changes you. I think they had to make it for tv. Something that was more tangible, that looked a little scary and different.

[Interviewer]

Yep. Okay. Okay. And did anybody or any of your classmates escape never to return again?

[Rachel Yukatel]

None of my classmates did. But while I was there, there was one person that ran away. And. And up until this day, there are many people that have left, never to be found again. One in particular was named Daniel. They use the name Daniel as somebody who is missing. I know it's Daniel Yoon, who is a Asian boy who was there, who after 10 days, first of all tried to call his parents and say how miserable he was and wanted to leave. He. He ran away down the front of the mountain, which is somewhat dangerous. But if you look down the front of the mountain, you can actually see San Bernardino at the bottom. So some people believe he didn't survive and he died on the mountain. Some people believe he made it down. There is a private investigator who only has worked on cases about Sidu. They've done a 2020 on it. They've done a 60 minutes on it. Daniel Yoon is somebody you can google and find out what has happened and the fact that he's still missing. I actually did an episode before you started working for me with a guy and we talked all about that as an episode. I think it was one of my first 10 episodes that I did.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. Yeah, maybe now that this is. I mean, this is the number one show on Netflix right now. And I thought they did a pretty phenomenal job of bringing together like they. I mean, just psychological thriller is the way I would describe this. And just like how we've been talking here for the last 50 minutes, I've been on the edge of my seat, truly. And I know. Okay, so after seeing the show and what you've experienced, should therapeutic boarding schools exist?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Well, they should only exist if you have people running them that really understand kind of what you are talking about. How you have to make a difference in people's minds and change their experience for them to actually change who. Who they are or see themselves as a better version. Right. Because a lot of people are stuck because they're having so many issues with their parents or not being able to function. And they gotta get out of that. And to get out of that, it's almost like you gotta shake them by the shoulders and be like, you have to stop. This is why. Right. So I do believe in it that way. There are 21 day wilderness programs. I know I met. I knew a few people. I was dating someone a couple years ago who was really distraught and him and his ex wife chose to do a 21 day program. So they still exist to this day. And as long as you have people that really get it and get the intention behind it, I do think they're valuable. But clearly, you know, when it's based on a cult and it's not, you know, when there's no transparency with the parents, to this day, my mother won't admit she don't even listen to me. She thinks I had the best time ever. And when I try to discuss it with her, she doesn't want to hear it. So I think in a place that is. Is something that parents can be. Yeah, I would never send my daughter to one, I'll say that. But if it's very needed, and it may be a shorter period of time where you really know what's happening, and there's almost like rehab where they bring the parents in after six weeks and they want them to be a process because the kids can't go home and not have that kind of support at home for sure. So I think there has to be some transparency.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else you want to wrap up on with this whole wayward conversation? I think we could do something more on this in the future.

[Rachel Yukatel]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Possibly even. I mean, go. Is it still. Is location still there?

[Rachel Yukatel]

I think the location is still there. It's in Running Springs, California. They. Because it's been shut down. I think the property has been sold. I. I always kind of wondered what happened up there. I kind of love the idea of wanting to see if. If I should have, like, a reunion of people, you know, and see if anyone wants to get together and talk about what happened or. I don't know, like, also, I've been trying to. I sent a request to Mae Martin, who stars in this and also directed it. She created this because a friend of hers had gone to a school like this, and that was the person that she got all this information from. And when her friend went away to this, she didn't understand what she went through. And so she made this movie, which is so phenomenal, and she stars in it also. So I'm trying to get her on the show. And while she has not responded to me, I will tell you that she's now following me. So somehow she knows about me. It looks like she hasn't read my message, so I don't know if somebody told her about me and my experience. I don't know if she saw Kiki's post. I don't know, you know, how she knows of me, but she does follow me, so I'm still trying to get her to be on the show.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Oh, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. I already know what that one. But. All right.

[Rachel Yukatel]

And I will say for people listening still, I am going to do Sarah Edmondson's podcast. She's the one who is part of the Nexium cult, and I will go on her podcast. We'll talk more about it on hers because the people that listen to that really understand cults. And I am on Tori Spelling next week and I've shared with them that to me, this would be a cool thing to talk about on her podcast and really dive deep into because again, it's a different audience. But so many people, I go on their show and they ask me stupid questions about what happened with Tiger woods. Like, who gives a shit? Like, I'd rather talk about this because it's so relevant to what's number one on Netflix right now. And I hope she takes the opportunity to ask me about that.

[Interviewer]

For sure, for sure. All right, enjoy. Michael Lohan this weekend in the strip club. And, and maybe you could bail out his new boyfriend.

[Rachel Yukatel]

O right, right. Boyfriend in there. I just know it.

[Interviewer]

What if that's the first thing he's like, rach, I didn't want to ask you this over the phone, but can you bail out my hunch, my hunky Latino boyfriend?

[Rachel Yukatel]

Or when he has to go back to Houston where he lives, maybe he'll ask me to start giving him some money in his commissary or something. We'll see. I'll get to the bottom of it. But Michael Lohan is also going to be on our show soon to talk about what he's going through and what he's been through. So that'll be fun. Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host, Rachel Yukatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five star star rating and review. You can support the show by joining our [e-mail] misunderstood with Rachel Ukitel. Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out? Email [e-mail] that's spelled M I S S. Understood. Thank you so much and I'll see you next time.