MK True Crime – Episode Summary

Podcast: MK True Crime
Host: Phil Holloway
Guests: Dave Aronberg, Mark Garagos
Episode Title: Abby Zwerner Awarded Millions, Kohberger Film Sparks Outrage, Donna Adelson Keeps Promise to Appeal
Date: November 7, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Phil Holloway leads a roundtable with legal experts Dave Aronberg and Mark Garagos, discussing several headline-making stories: the civil verdict in Abby Zwerner's shooting case, the controversy around restitution and a Lifetime film linked to Idaho student murders and Bryan Kohberger, Donna Adelson’s formal appeal in the Dan Markel case, and a former news anchor charged with her mother’s murder. The hosts offer deep dives into legal nuances, victims’ perspectives, and media ethics — making for a lively and layered discussion of the true crime landscape.

Key Topics & Highlights

1. Abby Zwerner’s Civil Verdict: Virginia Teacher Shot by 6-Year-Old

[01:02 – 19:05]

• Case Recap: Abby Zwerner, a first-grade teacher, sued former assistant principal Ebony Parker for failing to respond to multiple warnings about a 6-year-old student bringing a gun to school. Zwerner was shot and continues to carry the bullet in her body.
• Jury Verdict: The jury awarded Zwerner $10 million (out of the $40 million sought). Interest begins June 1, 2024.
  • Quote (Jury Foreperson): “We, the jury...find in favor of the plaintiff, Abigail Zwerner, and assess her damages at $10 million.” [04:16]
• Legal Discussion:
  • Collectability: Mark Garagos questions if the verdict is collectible, raising issues of insurance and sovereign immunity.
    • “It’s one thing to get the verdict...ultimately, at the end of the day, is this collectible?” – Mark Garagos [05:27]
  • Liability and Insurance: Dave discusses how the outcome of Parker’s upcoming criminal trial may affect insurance payouts — insurance might not pay if Parker is found criminally liable.
    • “Now Abby Zwerner has the incentive to hope that the defendant here is found not guilty of the crimes, because...if she's found guilty...that gives an out to the insurance...” – Dave Aronberg [06:48]
  • Negligence vs. Intent: Deliberation about whether Parker's (the assistant principal) failure to act is gross negligence or an intentional act, with implications for insurance coverage.
• Notable Moment:
  • Zwerner’s attorney stresses ignored warnings:
    • “All this talk about we didn’t think it was a real threat...Why are you agreeing with Ms. Kovak to search the bag if you don’t think it’s real?” – [12:16]
• Defense Perspective: Sandra Douglas (defense attorney) argues Parker could not have predicted the incident.
  • “No one could have ever predicted this. We all did our best.” [15:25]
• Witness Testimony: Amy Kovach shares in-court that she reported the possibility of a gun, but her concerns were dismissed:
  • “I reported that it was a gun...the whole time I assumed she thought it was a gun because that’s what the girls reported.” [17:08]
• Cross-Examination Value: Emphasis on the truth emerging under oath.
  • “You’re supposed to take what’s on the witness stand under oath as the actual evidence. That’s the altar I worship at.” – Mark Garagos [19:05]

2. Bryan Kohberger: Restitution Fight and Lifetime Film Controversy

[20:35 – 34:11]

Kohberger’s Restitution Dispute

• Restitution Details:
  • Kohberger (convicted Idaho killer) now claims poverty and seeks relief from paying $27,000 restitution to victims’ families, though he previously received “five figures” in support.
• Idaho Law: No “Son of Sam” law exists in Idaho, so perpetrators could potentially profit from books or films about their crimes.
  • “Idaho does not have a Son of Sam law, which means...if this guy writes a book...he can keep some of the revenue.” – Dave Aronberg [21:48]
• Family's Loss: Some restitution covers funeral expenses, “just to keep the remains.”
• Defense Motivation: The panel debates whether the defense is engaging in “frivolous advocacy” and what purpose dragging out restitution issues serves.
  • “We are required to do zealous advocacy, but that does not mean that we have to do frivolous advocacy.” – Phil Holloway [25:57]

Lifetime Movie Sparks Outrage

• Family Reaction: Outrage as Lifetime begins filming a dramatization of the Idaho student murders.
  • “We do not want Kaylee being portrayed in a slasher film. They are not characters. They are real people. It’s heartbreaking. It’s embarrassing.” – Gonzalez Family [28:00]
• TikTok Uproar: Actors post lighthearted dance videos from the set, fueling anger.
  • Olivia Gonzalez (Victim’s Sister) Responds:
    • “My sister Kaylee Jade Goncalves isn’t a character... Maybe you should just think about what you put out into the world, like dancing around in between scenes.” [30:33]
• Legal/Moral Reflection: Mark Garagos notes you can't legislate “good taste,” and that most such portrayals fall under protected speech.
  • “You can’t legislate good taste. You got to take a little bit of the good with the bad...” [31:47]
• Forensics Update: Idaho police release images of the knife sheath used as a key forensic link to Kohberger.

3. Donna Adelson Appeals Dan Markel Murder Conviction

[35:38 – 44:58]

• Background: Donna Adelson is convicted for orchestrating the murder of her son-in-law, Dan Markel. As promised at sentencing, she immediately files a notice of appeal.
  • Quote (Donna Adelson): “I've always respected the law. I've never gotten a parking ticket, but I'm going to prison for a murder I did not commit. I do intend to file an appeal...” [36:04]
• Legal Analysis:
  • Appeal Seen as Routine: Dave Aronberg declares the appeal is perfunctory, and there’s little chance of reversal:
    • “This appeal's going nowhere. Just like the appeal of her son, Charlie. Both of them are gonna serve the rest of their lives in prison.” [36:50]
  • Strategy: Appeal likely to allege bias by the judge; panel agrees the original trial was solid.
• Rumored Plea Deal:
  • Jailhouse informant Drina Bernhardt claims Donna was offered a 10-year plea bargain in exchange for not charging other family members. Both sides’ lawyers deny this.
    • “She really thought she was going to get off. Yes. She told you that? Yes.” [39:31]
  • The group expresses skepticism and note details may emerge in a future habeas corpus filing.
  • “If Dave is right, and he almost always is, they will lose the appeal...then do a writ of habeas corpus.” – Mark Garagos [41:03]

4. New Case: Former News Anchor Charged with Mother’s Murder

[44:58 – 51:23]

• Incident Details: Angie Mock, a former news anchor, is charged with fatally stabbing her elderly mother in Kansas, claiming self-defense.
• Witness Account: A neighbor describes Mock as “filled with blood...pretty shaken up and she just ran off.” [45:31]
• Self-Defense Claim:
  • Dave’s skepticism: “Right now I would be reluctant to believe in any self defense claim when you're dealing with an 80 year old mom...” [46:25]
  • Mark urges presumption of innocence and notes the need for more forensic details.
• Ongoing Coverage: Hosts promise to follow the forensic investigation and legal process in this developing case.

5. Closing Segments: Listener Mail & Rants

[53:04 – End]

Legal Mailbag: Death Penalty Appeal Process

[54:17 – 58:30]

• Jurisdiction Matters: Appeal length and execution likelihood vary by state; e.g., Texas is much faster than California or Florida.
  • “In California...you could be tried, convicted, and languish on death row for decades and decades.” – Mark Garagos [55:45]
• Current Controversy: Florida recently lowered the jury threshold to 8-4 for the death penalty phase.
  • “The first defendant that gets sent to die...by a vote of 8 to 4...is going all the way up to the US Supreme Court…” – Dave Aronberg [56:59]

Panel Rants/Closing Arguments

[58:59 – 63:06]

• Mark Garagos: Comments on a D.C. acquittal of a man charged with assault for throwing a Subway sandwich at an ICE officer, calling the prosecution excessive.
  • “Janine, you’ve got much bigger fish to fry...this was a case that rightfully should have been a not guilty.” [59:32]
• Dave Aronberg: Rants on the normalization of antisemitism across the political spectrum (“horseshoe theory”), especially criticizing Tucker Carlson for giving Nick Fuentes a platform.
  • “For Jewish people, it's been whiplash as antisemitism has become normalized on, on the far left and the far right.” [62:44]
• Phil Holloway: Addresses the reality and dangers of false confessions in criminal justice.
  • “Nearly 30% of cases...overturned by DNA evidence are overturned on the basis involving a false confession.” [63:06]

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “We, the jury...find in favor of the plaintiff, Abigail Zwerner, and assess her damages at $10 million.” — Jury Foreperson [04:16]
• “It’s one thing to get the verdict...ultimately, at the end of the day, is this collectible?” — Mark Garagos [05:27]
• “The law is that you're to view with disbelief what is said out of court orally. And you're supposed to take what’s on the witness stand under oath as the actual evidence.” — Mark Garagos [19:05]
• “Idaho does not have a Son of Sam law...he can keep some of the revenue.” — Dave Aronberg [21:48]
• “We do not want Kaylee being portrayed in a slasher film. They are not characters. They are real people.” — Gonzalez Family [28:00]
• “My sister Kaylee Jade Goncalves isn’t a character...maybe you should just think about what you put out into the world, like dancing around in between scenes.” — Olivia Gonzalez [30:33]
• “You can’t legislate good taste...” — Mark Garagos [31:47]
• “I've always respected the law. I've never gotten a parking ticket, but I'm going to prison for a murder I did not commit. I do intend to file an appeal...” — Donna Adelson [36:04]
• “That appeal's going nowhere. Just like the appeal of her son, Charlie. Both of them are gonna serve the rest of their lives in prison.” — Dave Aronberg [36:50]
• “Mark, if you’re right, and he almost always is, they will lose the appeal...then do a writ of habeas corpus.” — Mark Garagos [41:03]
• “Right now I would be reluctant to believe in any self defense claim when you're dealing with an 80 year old mom...” — Dave Aronberg [46:25]
• “Nearly 30% of cases...overturned by DNA evidence are overturned on the basis involving a false confession.” — Phil Holloway [63:06]
• “For Jewish people, it’s been whiplash as antisemitism has become normalized on, on the far left and the far right.” — Dave Aronberg [62:44]

Structure of the Discussion (with Timestamps)

• [01:02] – Host Introductions & Show Overview
• [04:16] – Jury verdict in Abby Zwerner case; damages & payment debate
• [12:16] – Closing arguments: Plaintiff details ignored threats
• [15:25] – Defense’s closing argument
• [19:38] – Kohberger restitution and defense tactics
• [28:00] – Lifetime film controversy: Family outrage & actor backlash
• [36:04] – Donna Adelson appeal: Legality, plea rumors, future prospects
• [44:58] – Angie Mock case: Media, forensics, self-defense
• [54:17] – Listener mail: Death penalty and appeals
• [58:59] – Panel closing arguments/rants

Tone & Style

• Professional, Direct, and Candid: The legal panel speaks seriously and with authority but maintains accessibility and touches of dark humor.
• Empathetic to Victims: Strong recognition of the impact on victims’ families throughout.
• Balanced: Both prosecution and defense perspectives are highlighted; advocacy for due process and legal principles is consistent.
• Critical of Media Sensationalism: The panel questions motives behind true crime entertainment and the ethical lines crossed.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode:

This episode delivers nuanced legal analysis and heartfelt commentary on multiple national true crime stories, offering a rare look behind the scenes at courtroom strategy, the ongoing fallout from high-profile murders, and the emotional harm caused by both real-world violence and insensitive media portrayals. If you want an informed, no-nonsense rundown with room for debate and context, this roundup encapsulates all the most important moments and insights from the MK True Crime team.