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MK True Crime
Adelson's Lack of Remorse at Sentencing, Mark Sanchez Speaks, New Ruling on Ellen Greenberg’s Death
00:55:23
MK True Crime contributors Arthur Aidala, Dave Aronberg, and Jonna Spilbor join the show to discuss Donna Adelson’s “life in prison” sentence, her lack of remorse in statement to Judge Everett and who she was really trying to address, predictions on when daughter Wendi Adelson will be charged, Mark Sanchez’s first words to the public following his bizarre attack on an elderly truck driver, Philadelphia woman Ellen Greenberg’s stabbing death ruled a suicide yet again after review by the city medical examiner, the MK True Crime contributors joining Megyn Kelly on tour, and more. Arthur Aidala: https://aidalalaw.com Dave Aronberg: https://davearonberglaw.com Jonna Spilbor: https://jonnaspilbor.com Riverbend Ranch: Visit https://riverbendranch.com/ | Use promo code MEGYN for $20 off your first order. Geviti: Go to https://gogeviti.com/megyn and get 20% off with code MEGYN. Grand Canyon University: https://GCU.edu Follow MK True Crime on all social platforms...
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- [00:00]
A
Hey everyone, it's Nicki and Bri and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nicki and Bri Show. Yes. And we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the cameras. Think motherhood confessions, sisterhood vibes, boss business energy and TV life tea. Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big Heck yes. Then that's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing, parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits. Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games, and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bri show wherever you get your podcast.
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B
This is Alec Murdoch. I need police and an ambulance immediately.
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A
Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast is here. I'm joining Patricia Arquette, Jason Clark and the cast to uncover all things Murdoch family first. To unravel the story piece by piece was really surprising because you don't want to believe it. Murdoch Death in the Family official podcast.
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C
Wednesdays and stream Murdoch Death in the Family on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.
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A
For bundle subscribers terms apply.
- [01:31]
B
Foreign Here we go. Welcome to MK True Crime. My parents named me Arthur Idalla. I am a New York City trial attorney and I'm one of the lawyers here at Idala, Fortuna and Cammins. And I am so excited to be joined by these two unbelievable guests talking about grandmother Donna Adelson, who was sentenced to life in prison this week for her role in the murder of her son in law. Horrible. We'll discuss what she had to say to the judge at her sentencing. And here in New York, one of our favorites, former NFL quarterback Mark Sanchez, speaks out after being released from the hospital following his bizarre attack on an elderly truck driver. And the city of Philadelphia has once again ruled that Ellen Greenberg's cause of death in 2011 was a suicide. Ready for this, folks? She was stabbed over 20 times, including in the back. We'll bring you those updates and more. But what I'm most excited about is the two people I'm about to spend the next time with, Fellow MK True Crime contributors David Aronberg. Now, folks, there are trademarks and then there are trademarks. And here is the trademark for Dave. He is the with a capital T H e Florida lawman. Now why can he claim such a title because he's the former state of attorney for Palm beach county, one of the poorest counties in the United States of America, in Florida. And he is the managing partner of David Ironberg law. And those of you who have ever watched television lately, any wants to know anything about the law, you want to hear some brilliant commentary, you just know there's one place to look, and that is to my dear friend for many years now, Janice Spilboard. She's a criminal defense attorney. She's the founding attorney at John Spillbo Law, and she is one of my favorite lawyers on the planet earth. All right, we have to start with Donna Adelson. On Monday, Judge Everett sentenced her to life in prison, plus an additional 30 years on the conspiracy and solicitation charges. David, since you have such a personal connection to this case, I'm going to let you take the lead.
- [03:44]
D
Good to be with you, Art. And John. Yes. Danny Markel, the victim of the case, was a friend of mine. And she, meaning Donna Adelen, had the temerity to bring up his name, saying that Danny believed in justice. And he would be appalled by what went on in my trial. He would be so upset at the lack of due process and how people lied and all this. I'm paraphrasing, but it was so disgusting. As if the victim's family has not suffered enough then to hear this unrepentant, vile individual who pulled the strings and put this whole thing in motion. How she continues to maintain her innocence and showed total lack of remorse. And the judge called her out on it. In fact, there's a sot on it. But I'll leave it to you, Art, to call out the SOTs. And then she tried to say that Danny would be on her side also. She praised Danny as a loving father and how she loved him. Meanwhile, she hated Danny. She hated him so much she could never even say his name. The fact that she even calls him Danny, that's what his friends called him. She was not his friend. She was someone who called him to gibbers. In fact, in Wendy's phone, he didn't come up as Danny. He came up as Gibbers. If you're wondering what gibbers is, it's like some made up name that combines, I think like Jewish and hillbilly or cowboy or something stupid. And so the chickens have come home to roost on this one. She is going to be facing the rest of her life in prison. She's going to prison until she dies. Her son is in prison. Until he dies. And next we anticipate will be Wendy, the daughter, the ex wife.
- [05:24]
B
John, before we go to you, let's just listen to a little bit of what was said in court because that I find that stuff kind of interesting. So we'll start with the very first sound on tape number one. On count one of the indictment for first degree murder, you are hereby sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole or release pursuant to sections 782.04 and 775.082 sub 1, sub A4 statutes. On count two of the indictment, Conspiracy to Commit First Degree Murder, you are hereby sentenced to 30 years in department of corrections. That will run consecutive to count one. The court will also sentence sentence you to 30 years in the Department of Corrections on count three. Counts two and three are to run concurrent with each other, but consecutive to count one. So Johnny, could you explain to folks why a judge would do that, why he would sentence you, continuously sentence you? You know, most folks would be like, she's already going to die in prison. What's with those extra years? Tell folks why judges do that, please.
- [06:35]
C
So there are a few reasons. Sometimes it's done because even though you might have crimes that are related, they might not happen at the same time. Therefore a judge isn't going to run them what we call concurrently, a judge can run them consecutively. Plus it's also from a prosecution standpoint, it could be helpful in the event that she does intend to appeal. So if anything goes south from a prosecution standpoint, some of this, some of the sentence might stop, still stand. But she's. What is she, guys? Is she 75? She's in that neighborhood no matter what. I don't think she's going to see the light of day ever again outside of prison walls. But I do want us to get to. I want to talk about. And we can run another stop before we get there. I do want to talk about her maintaining her innocence because she did get to speak at the sentencing and defendants are allowed to speak at sentencing. She maintained her innocence and she tried to sort of retry the case.
- [07:38]
B
We're going to play that, right?
- [07:40]
C
To do that? Yeah, let's do that.
- [07:41]
B
Play that. I'm going to talk, but I just want to mention was it was the second murder case they did as a defense attorney, the client was convicted of murder and of the possession of a gun. And the murder you got I think 22, life. And then the possession of gun was like five. And on appeal, the whole Murder conviction was thrown out. The whole case was thrown out. It wasn't sent back as 90% cases are to be retried. So the whole case was thrown out. Said it never should have been brought and so then he wound up only doing the five years. So as she usually is. Ms. Spielberg is correct. Prosecutors like when judges do that. It's almost like a safety net in case. By some reason I doubt that's going to happen here. The top count is vacated by the court. They still have the lower sentence. So once again Ms. Spielberg is correct. This woman will never see the light of day. Let's hear what Donna had to say. Let's go with Sat 2 please.
- [08:40]
E
My son in law, Dan Markell was a fine and decent man. He was well educated and passionate about his career. He was a good son in law. But more importantly, he was a caring and loving father. Danny wasn't just being followed, he was being hunted. He was brutally murdered in broad daylight sitting in his car in his garage by vicious killers. Cruel, cold hearted people took him from all of us who loved him. My heart was broken when Danny died.
- [09:21]
B
Now that's not going to get her in trouble. But Dave, you know, first of all, you've been on the other side of the table. You know, how does it feel from a prosecutorial standpoint when after somebody is convicted of killing a human being, you hear them, you know, grieving over the loss of the person who a jury has just said you were involved in taking them away from the planet Earth.
- [09:44]
D
You know, she did that in her trial. She and her defense lawyer praised Danny and they said what a tragedy it was. Well who did this? Obviously these hitmen didn't pay for themselves. Someone had to hire them. These hitmen who had no connection to Danny Markell and they were hired by Donna Adelson and her son Charlie Adelson with a middle person in there, Katie McManua. So for her now to cry crocodile tears, and by the way, even though she seemed to be crying, I didn't see any waterworks. I didn't see it there. I didn't see it at her trial, I didn't see it at her sentencing. It looks like she is someone who is more putting on a show. In fact, that's what she told her daughter, Wendy put on a show. And that's what she tried when she wanted Wendy to play the damsel in distress before the court so that the court would rule her way instead of Danny's way. So this is a family that orchestrated this. And as far as Whether Wendy will be next or Harvey. And there's a sot of Harvey speaking, who is Donna's husband. I thought. And I do think that Wendy will be next. I'm not sure about Harvey, but I'll leave you with this. I think that Harvey's comments were the most appalling of them all. Donna's were terrible. She took no responsibility. She showed no remorse. And the judge called her out on that. And we can discuss that. But when you show Harvey, that's the worst.
- [11:06]
B
All right, we're going to do it all. So let's start with Donna Sat 3. Let's see what she has to say about being the grandma mastermind. Go ahead, roll it.
- [11:14]
E
It is interesting how the state can't make up its mind about who is what they call the, quote, mastermind behind this murder. In both of Catherine McBanow's trials, the state claimed she was the mastermind behind Danny's murder. In my son Charlie Adelen's trial, they claimed he was the mastermind. And now in my trial, they claimed that I, this grandma, was the mastermind behind the murder. I had no idea that other people planned to cut Danny's life short. And the people who did this are exactly where they deserve to be. But I had no knowledge that this horrible, evil act was going to take place. If I had become aware of this plan before Danny was murdered, I would have stopped it.
- [12:10]
B
She's not really. She's not really saying, well, I don't know, John, what is she really saying? All right, Gets cut off by the judge, but go ahead.
- [12:21]
C
All right, but hold on a minute. This is. This is what's significant, in my opinion. We watched the trial, you know, in real time. I believe there was ample evidence to prove her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That said, guys, and we all experience this with our criminal defendants, It's. I don't think it should be held against any defendant, including this grandma. When you are found guilty by a jury and you show up for sentencing and you maintain your innocence, and you say to the judge, I didn't do it, and the jury got it wrong, and you got it wrong, and you're all out of order. You're out of order, and. And for a judge to chastise you for maintaining your innocence is wrong. Especially when you know that nine times out of 10, and in this case, I believe it's happening, she is going to appeal. So why do we expect defendants who put their life in 12 people's hands to suddenly come and say, you know what? That whole I don't know, month long trial I put everybody through and all that. Yeah, you know what? I did it. I did it. Why do we expect that to happen? It shouldn't happen. And I don't blame her to. For maintaining her innocence. I don't think she is innocent, but she has the right to maintain that position.
- [13:35]
B
Let's see what the judge has today. Let's go to sat for because he kind of reprimands her.
- [13:40]
E
Where is the evidence prior to the murder, the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the state needed to prove their case? Where is the. The evidence before July 18, 2014 at 10:50 in the morning?
- [13:58]
B
Before you continue, Mrs. Aon, as it relates to this statement, is the defense trying to re argue the trial? No, judge. Just giving Adelson an opportunity to be heard. Adelen, you certainly can continue. However, the court can take into consideration the utter lack of remorse that you are displaying. Please proceed if you desire to do so. Now, Dave, the reason why that's kind of a little bit of malarkey by the judge. Isn't the judge under this law, isn't he obligated to give her life on.
- [14:42]
D
The main murder count, but on the other counts, he could have departed to go below the 30 years. That's what this hearing was about. This sentencing was not about the life that was cooked that was in there. It was about the other two counts. And so I was wondering, why did Donna Adelson do what she did? Why did she not only express no remorse? And I get what Jonna says, she doesn't have to say I did it, but then when she just rips into the court and to the jurors, and in fact, Harvey even says that the judge was biased, but we'll get to that. But when she went further than she needed to and attacked the evidence, which is inappropriate for this kind hearing, this is not about retrying the case. This is about sentencing. And when she did that, I was like, why would she do that knowing that the judge will give her the maxim as she continues to provoke him and show no remorse. And then I realized what this was about, and that is she was playing to an audience of two. Benjamin and Lincoln, her two grandkids who mean the world to her. The reason why she did this was to get custody of them. She wants this on the record. She wants them to. To hear her one last time profess her innocence to the world. She wants that to be in their heads as they approach their later teenage years. She wants them to believe that she had nothing to do with this. That's the only reason I could explain why she decided to knowingly go in there, insult the court, insult the judge, and get the maximum sentence.
- [16:13]
B
Well, that makes. You know, that actually makes sense. Let's. Then we place not five innocent woman.
- [16:19]
E
Convicted of this terrible crime without evidence. Danny was a brilliant legal scholar. He would have been appalled at the total lack of justice that went on during my trial. He would have been embarrassed to have his name associated with any of it. There are two crimes here. The first was daddy being viciously murdered. The second one is taking my life. The life of an innocent woman. Convicting me should not be retribution for Danny's death. That is not justice for Dan. I've always respected the law. I've never gotten a parking ticket. But I'm going to prison for a murder I did not commit. As I appear before you today, your honor, I promise you with my whole heart, I swear to you on my life, I was not involved in any way with Danny's murder. I was not.
- [17:21]
B
All right, Dave, before I go to you, because, sure, you have a lot to say, I just want to ask Jonna, if she was your client and, you know, she's got to get life, would you stop her from. I agree with Dave. She's probably trying to make a speech with her grandchildren or anyone out there. Would you stop your client or would you be like, listen, you know, this is your last time to be heard. You say whatever you need to say that's going to make you spend the rest of your life in prison, you know, that much more, I don't know, reasonable for you so that you die happy, you know, behind me, but maybe satisfied. You got to. You got your last word out.
- [17:59]
C
Look, you guys, she had absolutely nothing to lose by say, absolutely nothing if whether the judge said, you know what? You're right. I'm only going to give you a couple of years when I could give you that. Like, it's nothing to lose. Number one, she didn't testify at trial, so she didn't get any of this out. She's being a little bit dramatic, frankly. She probably could have been if it were me. If it were me, I'd be like, you're all losers. You all suck. The jury was dumb. Like, I really let it all fly. But, you know, she's trying to do it in her grandmotherly way, and I can't help but be reminded. And again, she might actually believe she's innocent, you guys. She might actually believe that. At this point, if I had a nickel Though, for every client who said, I've never even gotten a parking ticket, I'd be retired. I wouldn't even be here right now. But, you know, because they all say that, and that falls flat.
- [18:50]
B
That is so folks who are watching this right now, what she said is so true. I cannot count how many times people have told me I never got a speeder ticket. I don't even double bond. So what was that kilo of cocaine doing sitting in there?
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C
Oh, well, you know.
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F
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C
Id presents a new documentary event.
- [20:22]
D
There's blood all over.
- [20:23]
C
For 23 days in 2002, the DC sniper terrorized the nation.
- [20:27]
B
He decided who lived and who died.
- [20:29]
C
But behind the headlines, DC Sniper was my ex husband.
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B
My story has never been told.
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C
Was his true motive his ex wife?
- [20:38]
F
She was a target.
- [20:39]
B
He could kill her. She would just be another random victim of a DC sniper.
- [20:43]
C
Don't miss Hunted by My Husband the Untold Story of the DC Sniper October 28th on ID.
- [20:51]
B
Dave, before we come to you, let's hear what Harvey said because I know that upset you as well. Knowing the victim here as well as you did. Let's play Start number six.
- [21:01]
D
She has done nothing wrong and yet is being punished for a crime that.
- [21:06]
B
She did not commit. I thought we lived in a different kind of world, but I guess I was wrong. Donna has always been a loving and caring wife and is innocent of the charges.
- [21:20]
D
A biased judge and jury were influenced.
- [21:25]
B
By years of one sided news pieces and social media. Dr. Ms. Fulford, this has nothing to do with the character of the defendant or lace the sentencing. Please go ahead.
- [21:44]
D
Absolutely disgraceful.
- [21:45]
B
So, David, first of all, let me just ask you from a procedural point of view, because here it's not a given in the state of New York that anyone could speak on the defendant's behalf. You have to ask permission. Some judges allow it, other judges don't. Just tell me, educate me, how does it work in Florida?
- [22:02]
D
The judge could have cut him off, the judge could have stopped him.
- [22:05]
B
Does the judge have to allow them to speak or is there like, what's the, the, as they said in New York, you have to write a letter ahead of time as a defendant. Can, you know, this one speak, that one speak and the judge can say, no, no, I just need to hear from counsel and the defendant. So I'm just curious how it works in your.
- [22:22]
D
It's in the judge's discretion, but the judge also is aware that an appellate court is watching and could say, now, you know, you have to allow the, the defendant to say something and the defendant's family didn't say something, so he's going to give in to allowing some members of the family to speak just to make sure everything is fair. But it's up to the discretion of the judge. And he could have cut Harvey off before he even began. And as soon as he insulted the judge by saying that your bias, I mean, my gosh, he allowed him to continue. And then the Harvey spoke for like, like 30 more seconds and then stopped, even though I had several pages of notes. And that's because the lawyer, I think, said enough. But shame on the lawyers here because the lawyers should have reviewed Harvey's comments and Wendy's. Excuse me, Donna's comments in advance and see, no, no, this is inappropriate. This is going to hurt you. This is bad. And then Donna, after Harvey issued that broadside, should have just allowed him to do it and played the part of good cop, good cop, bad cop. But instead she went in all bad cop. She took her heel Persona and just double down on it. And it's not going to help her on appeal. It's not going to help her in the court of public opinion. But as I said, perhaps it helps her now in the present with her grandkids. But at some point they're going to get old enough where they're going to know the Truth.
- [23:40]
B
Donna, would you. When you have a defendant who's going to speak, do you write your remarks? Do you have them write it and you edit it. How do you. What's. Show us a little bit how the sausage is made behind the scenes.
- [23:53]
C
Yeah. So it completely depends on whether there is an opportunity to have the words make a difference, to be honest with you. And if the words are going to make a difference, then rarely do I want a client to formulate them all on their own. But if they're not going to make a difference and they just want to speak from the heart, I. I let them. Let them do it. I would have done the same thing that this defense attorney was doing for both of these, for Harvey and Donna. Like nothing they were going to say was going to change any minds. They started talking motion stuff. And I'm sure all the motions, post trial motions had been made. They fell flat. So just let these two old people talk because Donna's going away for life. And the next time that she's going to be outside of a prison, it's going to be in a box. I hate to say it, but that's the case. So let them speak their piece.
- [24:47]
B
David, is there. What's next? She's done. Her son is done. Now there's no name Wendy floating around out there.
- [24:54]
D
Listen, I think that Wendy will be indicted by Thanksgiving. That's my prediction. I don't have any inside information, but the jury four person in this case came out and said on social media right after the verdict that, yes, of course Wendy was involved. She will be charged in her view. And remember, this case wasn't about Wendy. It was about Donna. So if the jury four person is saying, yeah, Wendy's guilty, too, when you only saw, like, a small part of the evidence against Wendy in court, then I think her goose is cooked. I think they're going to indict her. But I've been wrong before, so we'll see.
- [25:28]
B
Okay. You know, David, I really just want to go out of my way. I don't know if we've ever covered a case here. I know. I don't believe I've ever covered a case where one of the participants knew anyone involved, especially the victim. And, you know, I just want to express my condolences.
- [25:49]
D
Thank you, Art. And thank you, John. This important discussion, because, you know, Danny really was a believer in justice, and he used to debate people all the time. He. He would. He would have wanted due process, a fair trial, and that's what these defendants got. And so for Donna, to go ahead and say that Dan would be on her side, it's really appalling. And also, the other part of Harvey's comments, which we didn't see in that clip, was when Harvey attacked Danny's parents. I mean, as if they haven't been through enough for Harvey to attack the parents of the victim and call them liars. It's just like, haven't you hurt them enough? And so I don't know if Harvey's ever gonna be charged with this crime. But I told you about my thoughts about his daughter Wendy, so I don't think this is over yet.
- [26:36]
B
So, you know, I'm not commenting on this particular case, but I think I'll speak for John. Or I. We've both been involved in cases where justice wasn't done. And maybe your buddy Dan would not have been proud of what took place in courtrooms. I mean, you know, too, David, there are judges who are straight down the middle and straight shooters. And there are other judges who have their thumb on the scale. Typically, it's for the prosecutor, but there are times when. When it's for the defense attorney. You follow this case much closer than we did. You feel comfortable with everything that took place here, procedurally speaking, just from a criminal justice point of view?
- [27:14]
D
I do. I think she's going to lean in on the bias of the judge on appeal. And that's why when I mentioned about the judge indulging these victim. Excuse me. The statements by the defendant's friends and family, I think that the lawyers of defense wanted the judge to start cutting people off, wanted the judge to say I was. I'm offended by the fact you called me biased. And so that's why I think they're going to lean into that on appeal. I don't think it's going to go anywhere. I thought Judge Everett did an excellent job. I think he ran a tight ship, and I think he delivered justice.
- [27:47]
B
All right, you get the last word. We're going to take a quick break. I am going to come back. I want to sneak in a little bit. Something about Mark Sanchez. And then we got to talk about this Philadelphia women's bizarre death that was ruled a suicide years ago, but now it's been ruled a second. A suicide for the second time after a deeper investigation, allegedly. We'll bring you the latest on that, because those are some funky facts. Now, if you have any questions or comments, you know what, you can contact us. We're very approachable. We're very reachable. Look at Johnny. She's beautiful. Just go right up to her and say hello. Or you could email MK True Crime at the Devil May Care Media, not the Devil. See, when you see Jonna and the Devil May care, it's all ties up in my brain. It gets me all confused. Oh, Arthur, I'm sorry. MK True Crime@devilmaycare media.com MK True Crimeevilmadcaremedia.com we would love to hear from you and especially tell Spielboard to ditch the glasses. In other words, I need the glasses to cover up some of the ugliness. But her face is so pretty. And without the glasses, you get to see it all. And the brains and the intelligence just comes flowing through. Right, kid?
- [28:57]
F
Yeah.
- [28:58]
C
Email ajanauckingup will get you everywhere.
- [29:01]
B
Dot com. All right, folks, we'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.
- [29:06]
F
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- [30:14]
A
Hey, everyone, it's Nikki and Bri. And we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nicki and Bri show. Yes, and we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the cameras. Think motherhood confessions, sisterhood vibes, boss business energy and tv. Live tea. Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big Heck yes. That's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing, parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth, or just riffing on everyday chaos, nothing is off limits. Plus, we welcome Incredible guests play our favorite games and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play, and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bree show wherever you get.
- [31:14]
B
Your podcast On Deck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow, gaps On Deck's loans up to $250,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five star Trustpilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes@ondeck.com depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by On Deck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend to North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. All right, Arthur here. Back with Donna and Dave. And the city of Philadelphia reviewed the death of Ellen Greenberg in 2011 for a second time to determine what the cause of death was. Suicide, homicide, should someone be charged? Before we get there, though, I want to touch on what happened to Mark Sanchez. I mean, I've seen the video. Have you guys seen the video? There's a video we could show, right? And we could just talk over it of the Sanchez before and after the attack, like, strolling around. There he is. Oh, yeah, he's doing wind sprints, right? He's like. I mean, I heard you guys in the commercial break here talking about your CrossFit. Natasha and David. I don't even know spell CrossFit, let alone do CrossFit. So I guess he's out drinking and he decides he's going to exercise at the same time. And there he is. Let me go running with a couple of beers on my belly. Dave, is this what you do? Is this your deer being CrossFit? You're drinking with one hand and, like, running with the other. Is that how it works?
- [32:47]
D
That's my typical Tuesday.
- [32:49]
B
Okay, so then the. The fight takes place, and you see Sanchez is leaving and he's holding his side and he's clearly injured. And let's just play what he says when he first comes out. That's number seven for Mark Sanchez.
- [33:04]
D
Is there anything you want to say to the people of Indianapolis.
- [33:10]
B
Right now? I'm just focused on my recovery, and I just wanted to thank the first responders. Eskenazi Hospital. Watch how you're gonna hit some Marion county sheriff and Indianapolis Police Department, Metro pd. But I'm focused on my recovery, and I just. I want to see my wife, I want to see my son, my two baby girls. There'll be a day to answer all these questions. And unfortunately, today. Not that day, John, that is your client. What say you?
- [33:55]
C
Well, okay, you guys are going to have to tell me if I've missed something, because I've reviewed this case and I. Why are we so convinced that Sanchez, Mark Sanchez is the per year? Because from what I understand, they're both injured. They both get stabbed. Only one of them gets arrested. Now, Arthur, I know you have a cadre of famous clients, including athletes. Famous athletes. I mean, why do we assume that this man, just because he's the younger man, is the one who started this fight? Why aren't they both arrested or none of them arrested before?
- [34:34]
B
I defer to the prosecutor. The way it often works, Ms. Spillboy here is like the first to 911. Usually it becomes the victim or not always, but I said usually, your honor. And also, it's the one who gets the beat more, who gets the. Who's in the most injured. And here, look, when I got sent the picture of the guy that you could see there. The guy, yes. That picture, I thought it was AI I thought because I got the picture came out relatively quickly. I go, no, that's not true. They just had like a little fist fight. You look at that picture, it looks like a lot more than that. Now. There's a big age difference. There's a big, you know, like. Like our friend David. You know, Mark Sanchez is in great physical shape. He's very intimidating. And he. He clearly looks like he beat the hell out of this guy. So Mark, you. So, Mark, listen to me. So, Dave, you tell me, you know, why is. Answer. You answer John's question. Why is Sanchez the only one charged here?
- [35:37]
D
Because it looks like he was the aggressor. He's the one who came upon this individual who was working. It was late at night. He was out there doing his job, collecting oil from restaurants. And you had Sanchez.
- [35:49]
B
Greece, I think it was Greece.
- [35:51]
D
Greece, oil, Greece is that collector.
- [35:53]
B
Well, for us Italians, that makes a big difference between oil and Greece. We'll talk about another episode.
- [35:58]
D
Fair enough. He's collecting Greece, doing his job as a working man. And you have this wealthy celebrity who's a big imposing guy, young, good looking, built. And he's getting in his face because he's drunk or on whatever. And the guy, the victim here is elderly. And both of them get wounded very badly. And apparently the victim pepper sprayed Sanchez, but that didn't stop him. And then you saw the slashing began. It was just an awful incident. But the police, because of the age of the victim and because of determining who started it, decided this was Mark Sanchez's fault. And in the court of public opinion, it's not going well for him either. I know that his ex wife is now out there saying, you see, that's the guy who's fooled you all.
- [36:42]
B
How does that feel, Gianna? Come on, Spielberg, let's hear it. There's the wife saying, I'm not surprised. I hate to say this, but I'm not surprised at all.
- [36:49]
C
Yeah, I know. And like, just sit down, please, because that's not. That is.
- [36:53]
B
How do you know she was standing up? Hold on. How do you know she was standing up?
- [36:57]
C
She's probably looking for her 15 minutes of fame. He's her baby daddy. She's got an ax grind. Maybe she wants to up the child support. I'm still stuck with, we don't know what exactly happened to spark this. And if. I don't know, if somebody pepper sprays me, I'm probably gonna, you know, fight back. I don't think there's just something here, you guys. I can't stop.
- [37:19]
B
But, Jonah, would you. How would you. How do you feel about the fact that he doesn't say coming out of a hospital? Something along the lines of, you know, and I hope everybody who's involved in this, you know, has a speedy recovery or something along those lines.
- [37:32]
C
Why doesn't he say that? Because he's got to say as little as possible. Why? He is the deep pocket here. He's going to have probably already has a civil lawsuit.
- [37:40]
B
He does. No, no. They said they filed a lawsuit the next day.
- [37:46]
C
I'm sure they did. He should be seen and not heard at this point. And you know that Arthur, from all the famous muckety mucks that you represent on a daily basis, just shut up. You're not going to do yourself.
- [37:58]
B
I've never had a grease truck guy. I've had an oil truck guy, but never a grease truck guy. This is new territory for me. All right, listen, the Mark Sanchez case will be on for a while. He does have some young, beautiful children. I'm glad he's focused on him recovering and he wants to see his kids. But I think. John, I agree with you at this point. You know what the nicest part of the video was? I'm being sincere when he tells the reporter, be careful, you're about to trip over something. I would use that to see, like. See what a thoughtful guy he is when he's sober, because I think there's A lot of evidence that's going to be pointed out that he was not sober. We don't know if Ellen Greenberg was sober or not when she decided to stab herself 20 times. But family members and friends, they understandably so cannot accept the fact that. That she would have caused such damage and such harm to herself. So initially this was ruled a homicide, then it was ruled a suicide. And there was no real deep investigation done. These years later, after the family getting. I think they got 167,000 signatures on a petition to reopen the case, they hired all kinds of experts, national experts, talking about that it couldn't have been a suicide. It was reopened. And Mr. Prosecutor, the Florida lawman, if I got that right.
- [39:21]
D
Trademark.
- [39:22]
B
Yeah. You know, what are your thoughts, sir?
- [39:26]
D
It's a tough one because I'm trying to figure out why the authorities would cover anything up. Now, I admit this doesn't look good. I mean, I don't know how you can stab yourself so many times from behind if even if you were suicidal, how that even works. And there have been. The medical examiner initially ruled it a homicide and then switched to say it's a suicide and now is saying, no, it's a homicide. And the person who just came out to say it's a suicide was someone that I don't think anyone. The family had never heard of. This was someone new who they're not familiar with, someone within the medical examiner's office. And I'm not familiar with this person either. And it's going before a court. And so hopefully there can be some sort of investigation that's different than what happened already, because until that happens, there'll never be closure. There's still too many unanswered questions. It's interesting the family said just recently that they don't even think necessarily that the ex fiance did it, that it was perhaps someone else. But then that opens up a question like who else could it be? It doesn't point to anyone else. It's either the. The person or his. Her significant other who found the body, who may or may not have had a combustible relationship with the victim, or it was a suicide. I don't think there's a third party who is even in the mix here. So this thing is getting a little off the rails here. And I think only perhaps another investigation, a full one that's more independent than the people that the family is suing. I think it should be done independently and let's get some answers.
- [41:03]
B
But what a beautiful couple that that picture was. That just Popped up. And. And obviously this is a tragedy either way you look at it. John, did you see that graphic of where the stab wounds were? Yeah. Back of her neck and the top of her neck. Like, you know, I get. I think the original medical examiner said, well, you know, she could do it. Like, I guess it's possible. At her age, she's limber and my age, I can't even put on my socks. But at our age, I guess, you know, you could reach behind your neck and stab yourself in the back of the neck using your New York, Poughkeepsie common sense. What are your thoughts?
- [41:42]
C
I call bullshit. Just like when we talked about this the last time.
- [41:45]
B
It is harsh language.
- [41:47]
C
It is physically impossible to kill yourself the way they are claiming she did. First of all, the. The final knife mark. I guess the knife was found in her heart, you guys. Okay, so what does that mean? That means she had to reach behind herself, you know, 10 times, 11 times, stab herself in the back of the neck, in the back of the head. Oh, and then a few more in the front, and then. Oh, I have the energy. I haven't lost too much blood. Let me plunge this knife into my heart as my final farewell. It just can't happen. Who are they covering up for? At the very least, they should say it's a homicide. And if they can't figure out who the perp is, okay, but geez Louise, this is not a suicide.
- [42:30]
B
Yeah, I want to take a break. John, could you just tell us from your. How do you really feel? Like, tell us how you feel about that, because I'm not sure.
- [42:38]
C
Feel the same way.
- [42:39]
B
I mean, I didn't really feel it like you believed what you were saying right there. But if you think about it, David, you've been, you know, in the course of your career as a storied prosecutor, you've seen a lot of causes of death. Wouldn't you agree that this is not like someone. I mean, they want to kill themselves. You don't really hear about suicide by, you know, a knife in the back of their neck.
- [43:01]
D
Yeah, there are more injuries that were discovered and they think, well, maybe it was the medical examiner through the investigation that caused some of those wounds that cannot be explained because obviously there's some wounds that are impossible after you're dead to accomplish.
- [43:18]
B
So I.
- [43:18]
D
The whole thing raises so many questions to me as a former prosecutor. You know, I don't believe in conspiracy theories. I. In general, I don't like cover ups in general, especially now, where there are no secrets. So I keep asking, why are they trying to cover it up? Who are they covering up for? And I still don't have those answers. So that leads me to. To say, well, maybe it was a suicide all along. But then I see the evidence that showed all these wounds. I'm like, oh, my God. Gosh, what's going on here? The fact that the door was locked from the inside is also perplexing. So I am. And there's no DNA, by the way, of the fiance found.
- [43:55]
B
That's a big knife puzzle. That's a legend. That's. That's a big piece of the puzzle. And that's what I believe either the DA's office or law enforcement said. You listen, this guy's DNA is not here always. The significant other is usually the. The first suspect. I don't know. This is another one. To be continued. We're gonna take a quick break. I think we're come back with a little mailbag action. We're gonna have closing arguments. You better hold onto your seat because Ms. Spilboard really, like, you know, works on these things.
- [44:22]
C
I get into it, she gets into it.
- [44:25]
B
So don't go away. We'll be right back on MK True Crime.
- [44:31]
F
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- [45:28]
A
Edu hey everyone, it's Nikki and Bri and we're here to let you know that we have a podcast, the Nicki and Bri Show. Yes, and we've got new episodes every Monday and Thursday. We're serving up real deal conversations that go beyond the cameras. Think Motherhood Confessions, Sisterhood Vibes, Boss Business Energy and tv. Live Tea. Need a laugh? We got you craving inspo. We got inspiration and affirmations on deck. Want a little cry or a big. Heck yes, that's our jam. Whether we're breaking down pop culture, sharing parenting wins or fails, unpacking personal growth or just riffing on everyday chaos. Nothing is off limits. Plus, we welcome incredible guests, play our favorite games and do what only sisters can. Keep it 100 while raising a glass together. So pop a bottle, hit play and come hang with us. Listen to the Nikki and Bri show wherever you get your podcast.
- [46:33]
B
Okay. Welcome back. It's Arthur, Dave and Jona. We're gonna get to these closing arguments, which I am prepared for, excited about, and your mail, which is gonna be great. But first, let's find out what Megyn Kelly is doing. She's going on tour and she's gonna be in a neighborhood close to you. Very soon. I think I am going to be with her along with lovely Jonna. We're going to have our competing glassware. Is that what we're going to do, John?
- [47:01]
C
Is that sure.
- [47:02]
B
I think you should bring three pairs and I'll bring three pairs and we can whack them. And that is on November 5th, correct?
- [47:09]
C
That is on November 5th at the Westchester county center along with Tucker Carlson.
- [47:16]
B
That's in between Brooklyn and Pokemon, right? Yep.
- [47:19]
C
Sure is.
- [47:20]
B
All right, we're meeting halfway in the middle. I love it. What about you, Mr. Lawman, David Aronberg, did you make the cut or what?
- [47:29]
D
Yes, I did. I'll be at the Miami show on November 7th and I'll be there at the beginning doing some true crime talk with Mark Iglers. And then. Yeah, so. So if you're down in Miami, come say hello. I. I will be there at the beginning. I don't think they'll have me on during the political talk with Eric Trump and Piers Morgan and other A list celebs on the stage. I'm going to be sitting with everyone else.
- [47:58]
B
You and Iglosh together, that equals an A lister. So just wear a purple tie and choose happiness, as Mark Iglosh likes to tell people. Let's talk about some mail we got from Caroline. She writes to us. Just wanted to let all of you know I love the show and have been watching faithfully since its inception. I have not yet determined who my favorite contributor is yet, but I am enjoying the battle of the fashion glasses between Arthur and Jonna. I have a question for all of you. My son is graduating from Florida Atlantic University this December. He chose English as his major, knowing he wanted to pursue law school. He's not sure about what area of law he would like to focus on, but I'd like to hear the sage advice you would Offer a potential law student about how to choose a law school as well as how to choose what type of law to pursue. Ladies first. Johnna Spilboer.
- [49:01]
C
All right, so that, that is a, a question that's for the ages. And I will say this, Caroline, first of all, thank you for your compliment. I do want to show you one thing. I have these, Caroline, in case you're keeping track. I also have these. Okay, I can't really wear these because these actually make my vision worse. But I will say this. I chose my law school, for example, by looking at a map. And I literally, I was in my parents basement and I said, I am here. And I pointed to a little area in New York and I said, what is the place farthest from here that I could go to law school? And it turned out to be San Diego. And that's how I chose where I was gonna go. I minored. I had an English minor in college. So that doesn't, that's fine. He can go to law school and do what he wants in terms of what type of law to practice. He should figure out why he wants to go to law school and follow that. Do you want to help people? Do you want to help criminals? Do you want to help people who are starting businesses? Do you want to help people buy houses? Do you want to help people get divorced? Find out what his why is and that will guide him accordingly.
- [50:08]
B
David, before I go to you, I'm going to do a little host privilege here because I could not disagree with Johnna more and I'm being sincere about where to go to law school. I would do just the opposite. I would say, at least for the first five years or so of my late 20s, early 30s life, where do I want to live? Where do I want to be? And I want to go to law school somewhere around there. Why? Because the alumni association from the law school often can help you, you get on your feet, get a job or whatever. And so, you know, I would stay in a geographic region where people who have graduated from there can help you. The second thing is intern, intern, intern. Internship at a DA's office, internship at a white collar, a white shoe law firm. Internship at the city government office which like handles lawsuits. Like dip your toe into a lot of different waters and see what fits and what you, you enjoy. David, take it away.
- [51:04]
D
You know, I, I agree with you, Art. I do think that if you are in Florida and he is at fau, that maybe you want to stay in Florida, go to a Florida law school. Because those Contacts you have now are going to be your future clients. And the people you'll meet in law school will be your future colleagues and clients. And I think, just think the connections you'll make. If he is already in Florida, maybe you want to stay there. So as far as what area of the law, I think it's where he has a passion, but also where he thinks he can make some money. Because if there are huge loans piling up, you may want to start with a firm that pays well, even if you don't love it at the beginning. You could always then find your passion, but you don't want to incur too much debt. And if you have all that debt, then being a public interest lawyer. Yeah, until they have public interest law forgiveness, I think that could be something perhaps later on. And then finally, if, if and when he becomes a lawyer, and I'm very encouraged that he wants to pursue this very noble profession. Just remember, the Florida lawman appellation has already been taken. It's trademarked by me.
- [52:10]
B
David, since you have the microphone, why don't you take a minute and give us your closing argument?
- [52:14]
D
Okay, thank you. I was half tongue in cheek on that one, but I do own the trademark. All right, so to get onto a serious topic, this is something that's been stuck in my craw, and that is now that the war in Gaza is tenuously over, the ceasefire now crowd has been strangely silent. Where are you? Mark Ruffalo? Greta Thunberg, college students, aoc, where are you? Haven't heard much jubilation from you. And I think we know why. That's because this crisis has exposed those who are hypocrites, haters and ignoramuses. Hypocrites. Because there are many who claim to care about Palestinians, but they really didn't because they're saying nothing now as innocent Palestinians are being slaughtered on the streets by Hamas public executions. Where are you now, Mark Ruffalo? Where is your outrage? No Jews, no news haters. Because for some of these individuals, they're motivated by animus towards the Jewish people. Greta Thunberg posted pictures on Instagram to denounce the suffering of Palestinian prisoners captured by Israel during the Gaza war. But, whoops, the worst photo she posted was of a starving, tortured prisoner who was not Palestinian, but actually an Israeli hostage. Ev Yartar. David, you remember the one who was told to dig his own grave by Hamas. And when Thunberg was called out on it, did she apologize? Did she acknowledge the suffering of the Israeli hostages in Gaza? Nope. She Ignored all of it, deleted the pic and said not a word. David's life apparently is not worth saving or even discussing. That's not ignorance, that's antisemitism. And finally, ignoramuses. While many well heeled woke college kids on so called elite campuses found their cause to lead in supporting a genocidal jihadist terrorist movement, Hamas, who would kill every last one of them if they saw them at a progressive music festival. Chickens for Colonel Sanders. So I conclude by saying that now that the war seems to be over, if all these folks want to continue to chant Free Palestine, it's a moral imperative for them that the slogan be followed by from Hamas.
- [54:32]
B
David, thank you very much before I go to Johnna, because I am not going to follow her along those same lines and being very brief, so I don't take any of Johnna's time away along those same lines. You know, it seems like something has been achieved internationally that is a real milestone and it's a real achievement that everyone should be proud of, everyone should be happy about. Sadly, it's half a half a planet Earth away. That peace that was found this weekend, we need that peace back here in our country. The Democrat Republican war that's going on and now people just said the most amount of military families are going to food pantries because both sides can't figure out how to put a budget together. We're just better than that or we should be. We're not better than that because it's happening, but we should be better than that. So I appreciate this administration figuring out the peace on the other side of the world, but can everyone here realize you're not a Democrat, you're not a Republican, you're an American. And can we figure out a way to make the United States of America the best that it could possibly. Ghana, take it away.
- [55:53]
C
I just have to say one quick thing on that, Arthur. And to Dave, first of all, is it ignoramus is or ignoram? I. That's my question. And second, to Donald Trump, you don't need a Nobel Peace Prize when you have the actual peace. And I applaud him for the accomplishment as well. So with that, I will clear the slate. Here we go. The man who stands accused of killing Charlie Kirk just got permission to shoot shed his orange jumpsuit for something less prison fashionable, despite the fact that the publicly available evidence so far depicts Robinson trespassing his way onto a roof at a Turning Point USA event in Utah and damn near blowing Charlie's head off his shoulders in front of a massive audience. Robinson's attorneys are worried about his wardrobe. So concerned that the taxpayer funded defense team filed a motion to ensure their client would be afforded the right to wear his own clothes to every court appearance. And they won. Let me tell you why it ain't gonna matter. First, a little legal history. Back in 1976, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in a case entitled Estelle vs Williams that a defendant cannot be compelled to wear prison uniforms during a jury trial as this violates the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial. Yada yada yada. The idea back then when the Internet didn't exist, phones were still dumb and cameras were only allowed outside the courtroom was somewhat sound, I guess, since the first and only time a jury would lay eyes on a defendant was usually at trial. Still, this seems to be a little overly cautious. Crack. Excuse me, A little over cautious crock as shit. On account of unless all 12 jurors are foolish fresh off a lobotomy, it is highly unlikely that prison issued apparel is going to move the needle from innocent to guilty. How would that go exactly? Would juror number five be all, geez, you know, I was gonna acquit, but then I noticed this man isn't wearing any shoelaces. So I change my mind. I mean, come on. We live in an age where evidence is often collected by amateurs and fed to the world in real time. Thanks to TikTok and TMZ, we see with our own eyes a CEO getting shot in the back on the way to the free croissants. We see with our own eyes a mother in law texting in code about murdering the father of her very own grandchildren. And we saw with our own eyes a bullet ripped through Charlie Kirk's neck. In this case, the only clothes that count are the ones he had on his back the day he claimed to pull the trigger. For this reason, Tyler Robinson could be carried into court on a magic carpet by the cast of Glee while wearing a crown straight out of Liberace closet and a cape borrowed from the estate of Elvis fucking Presley. And it won't make a bit of difference. No one gives a shit what Tyler Robinson wears to court. Because hey, sometimes the clothes do not make the man. And this is one of those times.
- [59:08]
B
Avid fashion advice from Jonas Spilbar here at MK True Crime. Thank you so much, Joanna. Your well thought out and delivered remarks are greatly appreciated, Dave. The whole world should be rejoicing about the peace in the Middle east because that's just a wonderful wonderful thing. And I'm rejoicing that I got to spend time with y' all all. Today's Today's version of MK True Crime. You could find us at mk true crimeevilmaycare media.com MK True Crime media.com Send us your story, suggestions, your questions, your comments. Tell us how great Johnna was today. We'd love to hear it, and we'll see you next time. Have a great week. It's been a pleasure being with you. Hey everyone, it's me, Andy Cohen. Buckle up because I have a podcast called Daddy Diaries where I take my listeners on an as it happened recount of life as a daddy to two kids, dozens of housewives, and the occasional fella. Listen to the Daddy Diaries to hear about my high highs and low lows of parenting, housewives, drama, and so much more. Daddy Diaries available wherever you listen to podcasts.