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MK True Crime
Autopsy Secrets in D4vd Case, Shock Details About Teen Strangled on Cruise, and "Slender Man" Stabber Escapes
01:08:14
MK True Crime contributors Mark Eiglarsh, Ashleigh Merchant, and Arthur Aidala join the show to discuss the Los Angeles Police Department blocking the release of details surrounding the remains of Celeste Rivas Hernandez, the teen found dead in singer D4vd’s Tesla, the wild speculation about her body being decapitated and frozen, the news of a potential second suspect in the case, the revelation that Anna Kepner, the 18-year-old that was found dead on a Carnival Cruise ship, was strangled to death, what friends and family are saying about the alleged suspect, Zach Adams, the convicted murderer of Holly Bobo, pleads his innocence and asks for a new trial, the 24 hour escape and capture of Morgan Geyser, a young woman who years ago stabbed her friend to appease the fictional horror character Slender Man, and more. Mark Eiglarsh: https://www.eiglarshlaw.com Ashleigh Merchant: https://www.criminaldefenseattorneysmarietta.com Arthur Aidala: https://aidalalaw.com Lean: Visit https:/...
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- [00:00]
Arthur Idella
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Ashley Merchant
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- [00:50]
Mark Eiglarsch
Welcome to MK True Crime. I'm Mark Eiglarsch, your host for today. I'm a former prosecutor, veteran criminal defense attorney, author, adjunct law professor, and avid pickleball player. And I just learned I was just declared the captain of the MK True Crime Pickleball League. Right now, we only have one member. All right, so here's what's on the docket today. Singer David, who spells his name D4VD, is considered a suspect in the murder investigation of a teen girl found in his Tesla along with a possible second suspect that we're going to talk about now. Speculation about the girl's remains circulate and fueled by the LAPD blocking the coroner's office from releasing details about the death. Now, we do unfortunately know that the cause of death for Anna Kepner, it was revealed that the 18 year old girl was found dead on a Carnival cruise ship earlier this month and she was strangled. We're going to bring you the latest on that tragic story. And also one of the girls involved in the Slender man stabbing in 2014, she escaped her group home. Over the weekend, we'll bring you that story and so much more. I'm joined today by an all star group of MK True Crime contributors. First you got Ashley Merchant. She's a phenomenal criminal defense attorney. And the words of Megyn Kelly, these are Megyn Kelly's words. She's a statuesque beauty. And also Arthur Idella, also a beauty. He's a New York trial attorney. And in my words, he's a maverick of Manhattan art Maybe you should trademark that. He's also my brother. He's a dear friend.
- [02:43]
Arthur Idella
And I'm not statuesque, Mark. I'm not statuesque.
- [02:46]
Mark Eiglarsch
A little bit.
- [02:46]
Commercial Announcer
A little bit.
- [02:47]
Mark Eiglarsch
When you had hair, you're a little taller. Anyway, it really is phenomenal to be able to hang out with you guys for an hour and talk about these cases. I really do want to hear what you have to say. You guys are buds of mine and I really think you're great legal minds. And unlike all these other podcasters who are podcasters who talk about legal issues, we're attorneys who are taking a break from our busy schedules to do a podcast. So you're gonna get some real life analysis. Okay, let's first talk about David. All right, this guy's a singer. I'm too old to know him, but apparently he's popular and apparently he's not cooperating, which is no surprise. Investigators say that a 15 year old body was found in the singer's car. And in September 2025, the death was of Celeste Rivas Hernandez. And David Anthony Burke is actually the real name of singer David. And police have not interviewed the singer, so we don't know anything from him. And the first thing I want to talk about, and I'll jump to you, Ashley, is, you know, yesterday we're told by TMZ sources that the body had been decapitated, chopped up, it was frozen, thrown into the car. And today it's like, erase, erase, erase. Sorry, no, that's not accurate. What do you make of that? What's true?
- [04:10]
Ashley Merchant
I make out that nobody has a clue what happened to this poor girl. Nobody seems to know anything. They don't know how she died. They don't even know if it was natural causes. I mean, it could potentially. I know this is probably an unpopular opinion. She could have died from a drug overdose. And the actions that happened to her body after could be just a crime of covering up a death. It may not even be a murder at this point. So I think all of these different reports we're getting, you know, was she decapitated? Was she cut up? Was she frozen? Was she thawed? What happened to her? Was she pregnant? I mean, I've even heard that, you know, all of these different reports tell us that they don't really know anything about her. And, you know, I think they're trying to keep it that way because the coroner has been asked the, you know, the medical examiner has been asked by the. By the government, by the law enforcement, by LAPD to keep the results A secret. They applied for this, this secret warran, you know, to try and keep the results out of the public view and not to be transparent. And they got that. And so, you know, we're not going to get any more information right now.
- [05:07]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah. Arthur.
- [05:08]
Arthur Idella
Desperate, though, Mark. Talk about desperate. You know, you mentioned tmz.
- [05:13]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yes. Tell me. You handle so many high profile cases, you're constantly hearing what the media says. And, you know, it's a lot of times drastically different than what you know. Right.
- [05:23]
Arthur Idella
Well, they're also. They're also making this big deal, right? It's a headline yesterday, like, well, they're saying she was frozen, right? And they were able to get into David's apartment that he rented, and guess what's in his apartment? A freezer.
- [05:41]
Ashley Merchant
No.
- [05:42]
Arthur Idella
And she's small enough in that particular freezer. I'm like, come on, guys. I mean, I know you're gonna sell the story. Like, I get it. I. I'm down with that. But we were born at night, last night. That's why he's a big suspect, because she's allegedly frozen. And now they're backtracking whether she was even frozen or not. But that he has a freezer in his apartment, and they went there months later. I mean, Ashley's right. They don't know what's going on. I'll tell you, I'm involved in a very similar case, though. Out here in New York, at the end of Long island, in Montauk, there's a beautiful young woman, Martha Nolan. She was found dead on a ship, a yacht, out here in. In. On the water, in the boat. And we've done two autopsies, one marked by our. Our friend Dr. Baden. I. We retained him on behalf of the family. And they can't figure out a cause of death. She appears, unfortunately, in the deceased state as an otherwise very healthy woman. And as Ashley mentioned, about drugs, the toxicology has come back, but there's no drugs in her system that they could find that would cause her death. So sometimes we've all been involved in cases where you have someone who's gone, who's dead, and you don't know how they died.
- [06:59]
Mark Eiglarsch
So reports are. And here I am perpetuating maybe rumors, because who knows whether those reports are accurate, right? We have no idea. I mean, we really don't. But let's just go along with what we're hearing. Reports are saying they might not even know the manner or cause of this woman's death. Right? Or this teenager's death.
- [07:18]
Ashley Merchant
Death.
- [07:18]
Mark Eiglarsch
Okay, but we're hearing that authorities might still be able to proceed with a criminal investigation, ultimately a prosecution. How is that possible, Ashley?
- [07:29]
Ashley Merchant
You know, I think this is going to come down to the surveillance video. So one of the things that I wish they would actually release or talk about is the surveillance video from David's house. So he had, you know, ring cameras, those types of things that a lot of people have. He's famous. And I put that in quotes because, you know, I'm like you, Mark. I didn't really know who he was either, but he's famous. And so, you know, the average Joe has surveillance video at their house. He definitely had surveillance video. So the police have been able to get that video. They also have a private investigator the family had hired that they were able to get that, invest that actual information as well. And that is very likely going to prove critical. Who had access to her? Think about it. Did someone drag a body out? Did someone, you know, was she seen stumbling around? Who entered the house whenever she was there? Who exited the house? The timeline is going to be really important. The other thing that I think is going to be really important is the Tesla data. Cars have a lot of data for. Phones have a lot of data. If you think about the scope of all the electronic evidence out there, they're going to be able to come up with a timeline. This girl definitely had a phone. Someone can track her. If you think about it, it's even as simple as an Apple watch. You can track when someone dies based on an Apple watch. And, you know, obviously it tracks breathing. So there's a lot of electronic data out there that tells me that they know a lot more than what they're letting on. I think that it's very disingenuous for them to be saying, you know, oh, well, they're suspects. We think it's foul play, but we don't really know anything. Think they know a lot more than they're letting on.
- [08:52]
Mark Eiglarsch
Right. But it's not so bad that they don't tell us everything. Arthur, isn't there a value to them keeping things close to the vest?
- [08:59]
Arthur Idella
Value actually sometimes has to do with the person they may arrest. You know, I was involved in a case where seven people were shot here in New York, and they grabbed this kid. And when I get there as his attorney, there's a confession. He's swearing me to do it. I go, what do you mean you have a confession? And I'm reading the confession, and it's all about, yes, I shot this one. I shot there. I was standing Here I use this kind of gun. And luckily, guys, I had a very ethical pro detective who I knew from my days as a prosecutor. And he called me aside and he said, all right, something's not right here. I said, what? He goes, his confession doesn't jive with the facts of the case. He couldn't have been standing there. He couldn't have used that weapon he got. And sure enough, there was a non ethical detective who forced him to write. Write that a confession, so the less facts that are out there. And then someone comes in and you're questioning them and they do give you some sort of a confession and whatever motivation they may have to lie or make things up or confess, even if they don't mean to, the more pure maybe the investigation will be. But we all know, remember a case where the medical examiner was forced not to release the results. I'm not saying it never happened. I just don't have a recollection of it ever happened.
- [10:19]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right, Are we outraged by that, Ashley? Do we have a problem with that? Isn't it better for the integrity of the investigation to not reveal certain things?
- [10:27]
Ashley Merchant
I mean, I always think.
- [10:28]
Mark Eiglarsch
And by the way, wait, hold on, hold on. I just want to throw in too, go back to O.J. there were like a dozen or so people who confessed to doing that. Right. So you kind of need to know independently whether somebody is regurgitating details from the media or whether they know it firsthand. Right, right.
- [10:47]
Ashley Merchant
And the police always do that. They always withhold some type of information. But I also don't like convictions built on confessions. I think they're, they're fallible. I think they should be built on actual evidence. People's memories are off. People's perception are off. I want actual evidence. I want this video evidence. I want DNA. I want some physical evidence that is not subject to human error. You know, something like that. And what really bothers me about this is let's just imagine for a minute that David didn't do it. Let's imagine he's innocent. Well, these little tiny leaks and speculation, them not actually giving full information that's caused causing him a great deal of harm. He had to cancel his show. And I'm just saying, imagine in your mind that he didn't do it because he's innocent until proven guilty. He's had, he's lost endorsements, he's had to move. I mean, he's had to hide. He had to come back from his, from his entire, you know, international tour that he was doing. I mean, there's a lot of things that are happening before he's even been a suspect. And I better believe, and you better believe that if they had any evidence that that man harmed her, he would be in custody. You know, he would be in custody.
- [11:45]
Mark Eiglarsch
Like Ashley says, Artie, you know, it's about getting evidence, right? So they did. Apparently they got a search warrant and they went through his house. How do you handle it either way? Let's say they've got some stuff in there that might corroborate his involvement. Let's say they got nothing. You arguing he's framed like the Mona Lisa? What are you doing with that, Arthur?
- [12:05]
Arthur Idella
Well, a lot of times you don't know, you know, what they. What they've gotten, what they didn't get until you're. There's been an arrest that you find out. Oh, they went through his house and they found nothing. Look, I was involved, peripherally involved in a homicide case here where they never had the body, Mark. They just had DNA of the deceased in the trunk of the car.
- [12:30]
Mark Eiglarsch
That's enough for Matt Murphy. Matt Murphy gets convictions on those back in the day all the time.
- [12:35]
Arthur Idella
And they just linked together some of the forensics. This is a while ago where everyone didn't have a ring doorbell. Ultimately, there was a conviction. Without the deceased body, you don't even really know. You don't know if they're dead. But there's some statue that after a certain amount of time that they could be presumed dead and the family, the Mexican and all that stuff. So I don't know what they're going to do here. They have a lot more opportunity to get evidence. But Ashley's correct. If they had enough to give them probable cause to make this arrest, even if there wasn't enough to at this point, to get a. A grand jury indictment just to lock him down and know where he is. By the way, Mark, how do you spell his name again?
- [13:15]
Mark Eiglarsch
D V. D. No, no.
- [13:18]
Arthur Idella
How do you spell. How do you.
- [13:19]
Mark Eiglarsch
D4. VD.
- [13:22]
Arthur Idella
VD. Reminds me of your days in college, but go ahead anyway.
- [13:26]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right, so let's move this along. Let's move this along. Apparently, there's a second suspect, and we've got a clip we're going to play from our dear friend and fellow MK contributor, Mark Garagos. And he knows a little bit more about this. Let's play that clip. They also have clearly have yet another person that is a target of this. Not just David, but they've got somebody else.
- [13:51]
Arthur Idella
And I haven't heard yet whether that.
- [13:53]
Mark Eiglarsch
Person is talking or cooperating.
- [13:55]
Arthur Idella
But if it's anything like the feds.
- [13:58]
Mark Eiglarsch
The first person in is the person.
- [14:00]
Arthur Idella
Who'S going to try to talk or cut a deal. We need to talk about this. So my information is that the other.
- [14:07]
Mark Eiglarsch
Suspect and or suspects has to do.
- [14:12]
Arthur Idella
With dismembering the body. Is your information that this could actually have to do with her death? Yeah, and I've got a name, but I'm not going to put it out there. I've already been told a name as well.
- [14:25]
Mark Eiglarsch
A name of a suspect of another.
- [14:28]
Arthur Idella
Person besides him in connection with the death or the dismemberment.
- [14:32]
Mark Eiglarsch
But they're not ruling anything out.
- [14:37]
Arthur Idella
It's Scott Peterson. That's the name. It's Scott Peterson.
- [14:40]
Ashley Merchant
I think there was someone else involved anyway. I mean it makes sense that someone else would be involved just given what we know. But particularly if you look at the submission that the police made. The LAPD actually filed something with this with the court to get this autopsy to be private, to not be released. And when they did that, they actually tipped their hat a little bit about they were concerned about witnesses and cooperating witnesses. And I think that was a tip of the hand where they were saying that they are actually talking with someone else who was involved. So I completely agree. There's got to be someone else involved at this point.
- [15:10]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right.
- [15:11]
Arthur Idella
I mean besides what Mark talked about, about you know, the integrity of the investigation, again between the three of us, it's a lot of legal years of experience and we know how rare it is. Like I don't know. I mean unless it was like that's kind of murderer who always like, you know, left a branding on someone. So. Okay, well if we comes out that it has the branding on it, we're gonna assume it's that person could affect the integrity. But like if we find out that she was strangled or she was stabbed or there was a gunshot to her head, or there's poison in her system, you know, I don't really know at this point. I'm trying to use my imagination. How would it screw up the investigation?
- [15:53]
Ashley Merchant
Right. It is what it is. And that's what bothers me about it when they withhold this information. These investigations and arrests should be based on actual evidence, not something we withheld and we tricked someone into making a confession that matches the facts. It should be actual concrete evidence. That is what it is.
- [16:08]
Mark Eiglarsch
Alright, let's talk about a case we know a lot more about for sure. And we'll be following that David case.
- [16:12]
Arthur Idella
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- [16:44]
Ashley Merchant
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- [16:47]
Arthur Idella
Sort of. My cousin Freddy showed up to surprise us.
- [16:50]
Commercial Announcer
Oh, sounds like a real nice surprise.
- [16:53]
Arthur Idella
Exactly. So now I have to get him a gift, but I haven't gotten my bonus yet.
- [16:56]
Mark Eiglarsch
So if we can make it something.
- [16:57]
Arthur Idella
Really nice but also not break the bank, that'd be perfect.
- [17:00]
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Arthur Idella
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- [17:15]
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- [18:21]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right, so Anna Kepner. She was a teenager who was found dead on a Carnival Horizon cruise earlier this month. She died of asphyxiation resulting from a bar hold, which is an arm across the neck. Investigators found two bruises on the side of her neck. Sources say there were no signs of sexual assault. There didn't appear to be any drugs or alcohol in her system. She's an 18 or was an 18 year old cheerleader from Titusville, Florida. She was reported dead November 8th on this carnival cruise Ship so tragic. I mean, my family's all home now. We're excited to go on our cruise leaving out of Miami, the same port. And it's just horrible. She was found dead under a bed, wrapped in a blanket, covered by life vests. And you know, all fingers are pointing at this step sibling Arthur, tell us why.
- [19:19]
Arthur Idella
It was a combination of bad blood, them yelling, screaming, and then other witnesses saying he was infatuated with her. So you know, it seems like all fingers are pointing in, in his direction. I mean the way body is and the way she's covered up. I mean it's, I mean it's so sad. You could see this family is going to be ripped apart because it's, he is the primary suspect based on his actions towards her. Again, on both sides of the aisle. Some people said they're yelling, they're screaming. It's a real like bad relationship. And then there's another witness who says he was, he was totally into his, his, his stepsister. And you know, love and hate are very similar emotions. Indifference is actually the true opposite of, of love and hate. So there's a lot of work to be done, but you know, at least they know exactly what happened. And Mark, you thank you so much for demonstrating what a bar old was because I read about it, but I am like, did they. I mean, does that mean like he used a bar too? But no, it just means you.
- [20:21]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah. Yes.
- [20:23]
Arthur Idella
Those of you who are listening on serious. Let the record reflect Mike, Mark Iglosh is using his forearm to press.
- [20:29]
Mark Eiglarsch
I wasn't there.
- [20:30]
Arthur Idella
Adam's apple and choked. No, I think that I looked it up. That is where the bar holded.
- [20:34]
Mark Eiglarsch
Okay, good.
- [20:37]
Arthur Idella
And you hold on to your wrist and you pull, you pull someone so that you asphyxiate them.
- [20:41]
Mark Eiglarsch
So apparently the deceased, Anna, her boyfriend has some insight and he's pointing his finger. Let's, let's go to this clip number two. And Ashley, I'll ask you to comment on it. The circumstances behind her death.
- [20:55]
Arthur Idella
You find them to be suspicious and.
- [20:56]
Mark Eiglarsch
If so, tell me why it was suspicious because I knew that the brother did it and. Yeah, how do you, how do you know that? Because of the past things that happened with him. Like I was saying which way was about the FaceTime and stuff.
- [21:13]
Ashley Merchant
What's the FaceTime?
- [21:14]
Mark Eiglarsch
Whenever I was on FaceTime with her and when I was on FaceTime with her & she was laying down and the brother tried to go on top of her. And you saw that?
- [21:26]
Arthur Idella
Yeah.
- [21:27]
Mark Eiglarsch
And then what did she, how did she react to That I was like, what the hell are you doing in the room? You know. Then he got scared and like ran away. And I heard his footsteps like running through the house, you know, because he got caught. Ashley, that's not good. If you're representing the 16 year old step kid, what are you thinking there?
- [21:44]
Ashley Merchant
No, it's not good at all. And from my understanding, the family has actually put him in some type of a treatment program since he got back. You know, I can't help but wonder if it's about anger issues because there were reports about him being very violent, about him arguing things like that on the cruise ship. But, you know, you're about to get ready to go on a cruise and you know this from cruising. And for those that are listeners that you haven't gone on a cruise, they monitor every move. You have a key card. And one of the things that cruises always do is they monitor what you like, how much ice you like in your cup. They know everything about you. They know your preferences on wine, on dinner, what time you leave your room, all of that. How do they know that? Because they monitor you. They monitor everything. They are super observant of things. And they've got these key cards. And so every time you make any movement, that key card is swiped. It's swiped in the elevator, it's swiped in your room. And so they're going to be able to, to use that investigation and narrow down who actually had the opportunity to commit this crime. She was found in her room. I don't think it's rocket science how they're going to be able to narrow down who did this. It's going to be clear cut. And so I can't help but think that the family may know something based on what this brother, I mean, this ex boyfriend is saying. And based on the fact that this stepbrother was quickly put into some type of a facility when he got home for potentially anger issues, drug issues, alcohol issues. Seems like that might be mounting some type of a defense to me.
- [23:05]
Mark Eiglarsch
Well, hang on, Ashley, before you convict him. We've got Arthur Idella on the case. And Arthur, apparently he's the only one in the room at the time. What are you going to do with that, Arthur? You're, you're, you know, Representative, first of all, come on now, his wife's on the line. Artie, come on.
- [23:22]
Arthur Idella
I've never, I've never been on a cruise. I don't make your kind of money. Objection. Coney Island. Come on. Coney Island. I go to the beach, I get A hot dog. And I'm good. But I'm sure what Ashley's saying is accurate. First and foremost, we have to review all of those tapes and all of those cards and seeing who's here and who's there and what's what, number one. But that guy we just saw, I mean, come on, Iglosh, you would rip him a new butt on cross examination. I mean, and I'm not saying that to throw bouquets at you. I mean, it's. That would not be a real.
- [23:53]
Mark Eiglarsch
It would be blistering. Yes.
- [23:55]
Arthur Idella
Okay. Why do you think he's a suspect? Because he did it. And how do you know he did it? Well, because I saw them on Facebook a long time ago. And he got on top of her. Did he get on top of her and hug her and kiss her and say, I love you? Why are you talking to this guy, this dirt bag who's beneath you and you should be doing better than him? Like, you know, there's a lot of facts that you could really attack just watching that little statement that he made right there. And you know, look, brothers and sisters fight. I'm confident that brother stepbrothers and stepsisters fight as well. There's a lot of real estate, ladies and gentlemen, between having an argument with a sibling and causing her death and a death in a very personal way, right? You're choking her. You're literally choking the life out of her. That's what they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. So, you know, obviously I would dig deeper into the evidence and see where there's some. Some hold some reasonable doubt where someone else could have done it, where someone else could have gotten into the room or. I go with. What Ashley is predicting is this is an ill kid. We put him in treatment right away. He's got alcohol issues, he's got bipolar, he's got this, he's got that. And instead of giving him a life in prison without parole, why don't we do a nice like 15 to life situation and take.
- [25:07]
Mark Eiglarsch
Nobody was in the room too. We don't know is it first degree, second degree manslaughter? We don't know what happened. You know what, though? Who might know? Offer some insight anyway? Be the grandparents. Let's listen to what they have to say. Clip number three. What do they have to say? Do you think he had anything to do with Anna's death?
- [25:25]
Ashley Merchant
I mean, he was in a room with her. He was the only one seen coming and going. So I can't. I can't accuse him because I don't know what happened in that room. But the summation would be that. That he did something.
- [25:40]
Mark Eiglarsch
And has he said anything to you about what happened?
- [25:43]
Ashley Merchant
I heard him in his own words say he did. Does not remember what happened.
- [25:48]
Arthur Idella
Anna's grandmother says she sat in on.
- [25:50]
Mark Eiglarsch
A portion of the stepbrothers interview with the FBI.
- [25:53]
Ashley Merchant
He was an emotional mess. He couldn't even speak. He couldn't believe what had happened. Whatever happened in that room, the only person responsible is the person that was in the room with Anna.
- [26:06]
Mark Eiglarsch
What does justice look like for your family?
- [26:09]
Ashley Merchant
Whatever the law says. I'm not going to advocate for anything more or anything less. And that will be for the courts to decide. Don't let her talk to news. Oh my God.
- [26:24]
Arthur Idella
Right hand well though handled herself well. She acqu.
- [26:28]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah, but Arthur, she said he doesn't remember. No, no.
- [26:33]
Arthur Idella
Okay, but Mark, he's already been interviewed by the FBI, so it doesn't matter what grandma says. It matters what he says. So she's. She's just recounting what the FBI, what he told the FBI. That's what's going to be used against him. It's the FBI because it's on the ocean, not, I guess, not in the state. So, you know, I don't think grandma really, you know, hurt anybody there. She could trust me. If that was my kid and my. His grandmother was involved, it would have been a lot more harsh than that.
- [27:00]
Mark Eiglarsch
Ashley, what do we make of his behavior? Like the day before, there was some yelling and screaming. Tell us about that and how that plays into the case.
- [27:09]
Ashley Merchant
Well, I think if you take what grandma says, that makes a lot of sense because she's clear that he was the only one in the room with this girl. And if he's got some violent tendencies, some yelling, there's some agitation between the two. And yeah, the ex boyfriend is not the greatest witness. He can obviously be cross examined, but he can establish a pattern that they didn't love each other to death, you know, and there was some animosity. If this kid had some anger issues. And then grandma is saying the day before leading into this, they were fighting, maybe he was acting up. And then he says he doesn't remember. Why doesn't he remember? Was it a fit of rage? Does he not remember because he was taking something? I mean, what is the answer to this? So I think grandma's statement, what she knows, really, really fills in all those little tiny holes. And I don't think it's looking so good for this kid.
- [27:51]
Mark Eiglarsch
Arthur, Any chance at 16 years of age, assuming they charge him. And again, he's not been charged, we're just speculating, but all evidence seems to suggest that he was involved. Any chance he doesn't get tried as an adult?
- [28:07]
Arthur Idella
No. Well, look, I know the answer.
- [28:10]
Mark Eiglarsch
I'm just asking for our audience.
- [28:12]
Arthur Idella
I mean, in, in New York, even though they have this raise the age thing when it comes to homicides, you know, typically you're, you're char, you're tried as an adult. I think the real question here winds up being the mitigation. What grandma just said was he was a mess, he was out, he couldn't even function. His age will play a role into, will play a role in it. Any other mental issues he's had down the road. And look again, every prosecutor's office is different. Every DOJ office is different. But a lot of the times they do lean into what the deceased family wants. And you know, you heard what grandma said. I don't know if she is the final say on this, but, you know, I don't want any more, I don't want any less. Like whatever it is and something like this, a 16 year old kid, you know, he's young. I mean, that's the best part for him is even if he gets 20 years, he's going to get out. Where. I'll just speak for myself, he's a lot younger than I am now, so by decades. So, I mean, that's the only light he has at the end of the tunnel. Unless they figure, hey, this kid's got to go to jail for the rest of his life. I mean, that's going to be a whole psychoanalysis. You're going to hire experts that dig deep on him and his family and the relationship and what may have triggered him. Like what was it all about? Was it, was he in love with her and he wasn't appropriate because it's his stepsister, Was he jealous of her? Or was he just, you know, he. Was he on drugs? Was he on drugs? He's saying he doesn't remember anything, but as Ashley just appropriately stated, why doesn't he remember anything? So, you know, there's a lot left to be seen here. You know, I wanted to ask you guys a question since, you know, he did cooperate and he did speak in the case we just spoke about with David the rapper, actually. Do you let David the rapper speak, Mark? Do you let David the rapper. You know, the big thing is he's not cooperating. He's not cooperating. He's not cooperating.
- [29:57]
Mark Eiglarsch
Never.
- [29:58]
Ashley Merchant
Never ever.
- [29:59]
Mark Eiglarsch
The fish who kept his mouth shut never got caught. They have so many holes in that David case.
- [30:05]
Arthur Idella
Is that in the book? Is that in the choose happiness book?
- [30:07]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah, sure.
- [30:08]
Ashley Merchant
The truth will never set you free with the police in a pretrial investigation.
- [30:12]
Mark Eiglarsch
I'll proffer. I'll. I'm always. I'm always available to proffer. And by proffer, I mean I'll tell the cops what my client tells me. But that's not admissible against my client. That's the difference. No, we need to get it from your client. Oh, because you want to build a case against them. Never met a law enforcement officer get promoted based on how many people they let go now. Sorry, officer, I can't allow that to happen. Ashley, do you feel differently?
- [30:35]
Ashley Merchant
I feel the exact same way. And my philosophy is always, if you're not going to show me your cards, why am I going to show you mine? And the police are never willing to tell me anything about their investigation until they interview my client.
- [30:45]
Mark Eiglarsch
No.
- [30:45]
Ashley Merchant
Why would I? How am I even supposed to prep a client? They could be completely innocent. But I'm not going to walk into an interview when I don't know what they're going to.
- [30:52]
Arthur Idella
Is it true what you just said? The police will never tell you anything that's going on in their investigation?
- [30:57]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah, sometimes they'll tell you.
- [30:58]
Ashley Merchant
They'll tell me bits and pieces, but they'll never tell me the whole story now. And I never trust that.
- [31:02]
Arthur Idella
Maybe not the whole story, but a lot of times when they're trying to lure you in.
- [31:06]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah.
- [31:06]
Arthur Idella
They'll be like, look, this is what we got. We got your guy on video, we got his DNA, and we got his fingerprints. You want to play tough guy defense attorney and stay out there, that's your choice. But if you want to come in and see if we could, like, lower the temperature a little bit, maybe we could chat.
- [31:20]
Ashley Merchant
Right.
- [31:20]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right, we'll talk. We're gonna. We're gonna follow this case because I. I want to know all the answers to the questions that Arthur, you know, what was he thinking? Assuming it's him, why did he do it? What was the interest in the sister? Anyway, we're going to follow all that. Excellent. Excellent analysis. Next, we're going to revisit the murder of Holly Bobo in 2011, and we're going to share why the convicted murderer wants a new trial. Now, remember, you can email us. We do read this stuff. We love your comments. And any story suggestions, email us at. Get ready to write this down. Because this thing requires like two or three pens. Mktruechrimecaremedia.com Again, that's mktruecrimecaremedia.com.
- [32:11]
Arthur Idella
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Mark Eiglarsch
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- [34:15]
Mark Eiglarsch
Welcome back to MK True Crime. There are two huge stories from the past that just resurfaced last week. You remember the Slender man stabbing from 2014? Well, one of the girls just tried to escape from her group home. We're going to talk about that in a moment. But first, Zach Adams. He's the man who was convicted in the murder of Holly Bobo in 2011. He thinks he deserves a new trial, and maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I'm gonna discuss that with my all star panel, Arthur Idella and Ashley Merchant. All right, so Holly Bobo, she disappeared and, well, she turned up dead, unfortunately, in 2014, she was missing. In 2011, three men were arrested. So you got Zach Adams, his brother Dylan Adams, and Jason Autry. They were charged and convicted of kidnapping, rape, and murder. There was no physical evidence, no blood, no fingerprints, no DNA. No busload of nuns who saw him do it. No real corroboration. But Zach Adams went to trial. He was the only one who went to trial. And he was convicted. He was given life plus 50. That happened in 2017. Now, Zach's brother, in 2018, he accepted an Alford plea, which means he didn't admit that he did it, but it was a plea of convenience, and he was given 35 years in prison. Now, Dylan, his brother is mentally disabled. Foreshadow to discussions in just a moment about him. Now, Jason Autry, he chose to make a plea bargain with prosecutors. Maybe he got through the door first. You know how it works. And he would testify against Zach, and he got a significantly reduced sentence. In fact, in September 2020, he got released after serving only eight years in prison. So let's talk about this case. I'll start with Arthur. All right, Arthur, what do you make of what's going on right now? He may get a new trial. You think he deserves one?
- [36:25]
Arthur Idella
Well, okay, so when I'm reading this, preparing, I'm like, one of his main claims is ineffective assistance of counsel.
- [36:33]
Mark Eiglarsch
Right.
- [36:33]
Arthur Idella
And folks should know that is a very, very uphill bill.
- [36:37]
Mark Eiglarsch
What does that mean? Tell the folks what I'm going to tell you.
- [36:40]
Arthur Idella
I'm going to tell you what it means when you try a case and you get the verdict that the client wants. You're the greatest lawyer ever. And when you don't get the verdict, you're an idiot. You're a moron. You should it to them. You should ineffective their way. Yeah, it's not always the case, but it's. Oh, it's often the case. And it's. It's a human instinct that, you know, why didn't we get over the. The hurdle that we thought we were going to get get over? So. And judges are not in the habit, and it's not really their job. They're supposed to Preserve verdicts they're not supposed to say. Twelve jurors have sat here, heard all the evidence, reached a decision. And now me, this one guy who's just. I'm just a lawyer who got elevated to the position of a judge. I'm going to decide you're wrong, and I'm going to throw it out. So it does not happen very often. When it does happen, it's typically by an appellate court, which is several judges agreeing that it wasn't a fair trial. But here. Here was the curveball as I kept doing the research. The actual trial lawyer, she has testified at this hearing for a new trial, saying I wasn't up for the task. I was depressed. I was absolutely. So I was going through emotional trauma. So I got my heart and soul into it, and I was overwhelmed by the electronic discovery. And let me tell you something there. Before the grace of God go I. These prosecutors now, they give you a little thumb drive, and it's got like, 40,000 pages on it. 40,000 doesn't sound like a lot until you have to read 40,000 and think about one ream of paper that goes into the photocopy machine is 3 inches thick. Pile all those up. It's too much. She basically told the judge, I didn't do a good job. He deserves a new trial.
- [38:21]
Mark Eiglarsch
What do you think about that? Does it help Ashley, or she just, you know, trying to take a fall for a former client? What do you make of that?
- [38:28]
Ashley Merchant
You know, I deal with these all the time, these claims of ineffective assistance. You know, when I'm doing direct appeals, clients always want to raise them. They are likely unsuccessful. Like Arthur said, they're not the most promising area of the law. But, you know, I'm listening to this lady, and I'm just thinking, I can imagine, I mean, any of us who have tried cases, we know how difficult it is. And if she really was alone trying this case without any help, and she had a judge who was essentially bullying her the entire time. She explained how the prosecutor was heckling her and was just offensive the entire time, how she was trying to raise these issues and the judge was just ignoring her, and that all he seemed to care about was a conviction. I mean, I can really feel that because, you know, a trial is stressful enough if you don't have any of those things going on. If you're just trying a case and you're just dealing with the facts and you're having to think about everything at once. Objecting, taking notes, you know, making sure you get your points Across. And then you have to deal with these. These other folks in the courtroom who are just actively against you and trying to stop you from doing your job. You know, that bothers me. And I think that the system should really think about it a lot, because without a good, competent defense lawyer, we can have no faith in the outcome. None at all. And so if you've got a defense lawyer, that's saying you data dumped me. Discovery, I didn't have the help I needed. I was. You know, my mental health was suffering because you all were bullying me the entire time. That's something that we really need to think about, because the whole goal is we've got a person in custody for the rest of their life. Are they supposed to be there? Did they have a fair trial? Did they have due process? Well, if all of this stuff was going on, did they. You know, I mean, really. And I really think if you look at the facts of the case, it's kind of a weak case. I mean, there's no physical evidence.
- [40:03]
Mark Eiglarsch
Let's do that. Let's. Let's do that. Let's.
- [40:04]
Arthur Idella
Let's.
- [40:04]
Mark Eiglarsch
First of all, I related very much to her claims. You know that feeling when she said, I felt the judge was against me? I know, Arthur. And Ashley, you've never been through that before.
- [40:14]
Arthur Idella
Feeling where she was rough. He said, yeah, he was so rough on me. He was so rough on me that.
- [40:18]
Mark Eiglarsch
There'S a prosecutor at the other podium, but there's a prosecutor wearing the black polyester elevated and giving you chest punches throughout. I'm not saying that hasn't happened to me, all right? But the guy did take the witness stand during this hearing. Let's go to clip number four and hear what he has to say.
- [40:35]
Ashley Merchant
Okay, Mr. Adams, I'm just gonna speak to the elephant in the room.
- [40:41]
Mark Eiglarsch
Okay?
- [40:42]
Commercial Announcer
Okay.
- [40:43]
Ashley Merchant
Did you know Holly Bobo?
- [40:45]
Mark Eiglarsch
No, ma'. Am.
- [40:46]
Ashley Merchant
Did you have any knowledge of the Bobo family?
- [40:51]
Mark Eiglarsch
Ms. Karen Bobo was my fourth grade teacher at Parsons Junior High School.
- [40:55]
Ashley Merchant
In middle school, did you kidnap Holly Bobo?
- [40:59]
Mark Eiglarsch
No, ma'.
- [41:00]
Ashley Merchant
Am. Did you rape Holly Bobo?
- [41:02]
Mark Eiglarsch
No, ma'. Am.
- [41:03]
Ashley Merchant
Did you murder Holly Bobo?
- [41:04]
Mark Eiglarsch
No, ma'.
- [41:05]
Ashley Merchant
Am. Did you have anything to do with the disposal of Holly Bobo's remains?
- [41:09]
Mark Eiglarsch
No, ma'. Am. Well, there it is. Why don't they set him free? He said he didn't do it, and he said, ma'.
- [41:14]
Arthur Idella
Am.
- [41:15]
Mark Eiglarsch
So. He sounded very, very kind and professional. Arthur, what are we doing? Why are we holding this guy?
- [41:21]
Arthur Idella
You got to have a lot more than that. I mean, say no, no, no, no, no.
- [41:25]
Mark Eiglarsch
But he Said ma'.
- [41:26]
Ashley Merchant
Am.
- [41:26]
Mark Eiglarsch
He said ma'.
- [41:26]
Ashley Merchant
Am.
- [41:27]
Arthur Idella
He did say ma'.
- [41:27]
Mark Eiglarsch
Am. Doesn't sound like a rapist to me.
- [41:30]
Arthur Idella
There was not an overwhelming amount of evidence here, as you stated in the beginning of this segment. And this was a high publicity case, especially that time when it was going on. You know, there is an enormous amount of pressure on jurors. When you're on a high publicity case and you have a very sympathetic deceased person, you saw how beautiful she was and think that doesn't play a role, you're being naive. If you notice all of these big cases often involved a beautiful blonde young lady. And so, you know, again, it's not like he's sitting there and they got him on video, they got him on audio. They have DNA, they have fingerprints. And an eyewitness. It was my friend Mark says a busload of nuns. I don't even know if there is a busload of nuns that exist. Oh, sure, yeah. They don't have that kind of evidence here. So he's saying, look, I went to trial. I got a lawyer who's saying she wasn't up for the task, both personally and professionally. Right.
- [42:26]
Mark Eiglarsch
She's all right.
- [42:27]
Arthur Idella
She's taking it from two aspects. So, folks, so let's do it. You got the evidence, you got the resources. Let's try it again. That's all he's asking. He's not as to be dismissed. Let's try it again.
- [42:36]
Mark Eiglarsch
There's got to be more. And, Ashley, there is more. He's claiming that an ATM photo would have shown what apparently would have exonerated him is what he's claiming.
- [42:46]
Ashley Merchant
Right.
- [42:47]
Mark Eiglarsch
What do you make of that ATM argument? Listeners know about it?
- [42:50]
Arthur Idella
Yeah.
- [42:50]
Ashley Merchant
So he said that he had an alibi. And what the government got, what the police got was they got the outside surveillance footage of this atm. He says he was at the ATM at the time of the murder. They couldn't really tell from this outside footage footage if it was him or not. But what he's saying is if they had gotten the inside footage, it would have actually been looking at him. And if his lawyer had gotten that or the police had gotten that, that would have exonerated him. The problem is his lawyer didn't get it and it's now gone. Bank's been sold, bank's been bought, Bank's long gone. That footage, I mean, they usually only keep that, like 14 days anyway. So, you know, he's blaming his lawyer for not getting it. I'll be perfectly honest. I love getting surveillance footage, but most of the time, by the time the police make an arrest and the case comes to me that that footage is long gone. So I do advocate for the police getting all of that footage. And they should have. That's something that his lawyer should have argued at the time, you know, during trial. Is that enough, though? Because when you're alleging ineffective assistance of counsel, you've got to really show something. It can't just be, you know, they could have done a better job. It's gotta be something significant. He's got some other evidence. He's got one of the other gentlemen who actually testified against him. I think this might be the most significant evidence for me personally, but courts are still suspect of it. But you've got Mr. Autry, the Jason, I think is his name. Yeah, Jason Autry. You've got him, who testified against Zach Adams. And he says that it was coerced. He says that he did it to get a deal. He said that he studied the discovery and sort of got his story to fit with the discovery. And that really resonates with me because I can't tell you, I know you guys, you know, probably experienced the same. How many people in jail are trying to get a deal by testifying. I just, I hate that type of evidence. I think that jurors should be extremely suspect of it. And so that gives me a lot more pause than anything else in this case case.
- [44:30]
Arthur Idella
Now, now, regarding market real quick in New York, like the big case that people refer to in terms of ineffective assistance of counsel, because it was a big reversal, is when there are witnesses who say, and I think even one of the jurors testified at a post trial hearing, the defense attorney was actually sleeping at the, at the table. Like that's how high.
- [44:49]
Mark Eiglarsch
Hold on, hold on, hold on. There's a famous case out of Texas. It was a death penalty case. And they argued that the attorney fell asleep during trial.
- [44:58]
Arthur Idella
Yeah.
- [44:59]
Mark Eiglarsch
In upholding the conviction. I swear I'm not making this up. The appellate court said. Yeah, but he didn't sleep during the most important, significant parts of the trial.
- [45:08]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah.
- [45:08]
Mark Eiglarsch
What?
- [45:09]
Ashley Merchant
It's awful.
- [45:10]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right. It's insane. All right, so just on the other side, to keep it fair and balanced, the state maintained that the agents turned over all the available video and that no recording exists that clearly identifies the occupants of the truck. So that's a problem. But guys, I mean, not breaking news, but this is big. I'm going to play clip number five. This to me, is where everything changes. Where Zach, who's claiming that he's Innocent did make a statement that I think at least changed my perspective. Clip number five.
- [45:50]
Ashley Merchant
Anthony Phoenix. Who is he?
- [45:52]
Mark Eiglarsch
He was a friend of mine. A drug. Drug friend of mine. He testified that you were driving around in the car and said, let's rape this. I did make that comment. I didn't say, let's rape this. We was riding around and he was wanting. He was needing some money. He was wanting to rob somebody's house. And anytime I've ever stole something, I've always gotten in trouble and ain't. And I could not get him to shut up about wanting to go rob somebody's house.
- [46:20]
Arthur Idella
He was wanting me to drop him.
- [46:21]
Mark Eiglarsch
Off somewhere and pick him up.
- [46:23]
Arthur Idella
And I made the comment, well, if.
- [46:24]
Mark Eiglarsch
We'Re just gonna do that, we might as well just go rape somebody, because anytime I. Anytime I steal something, I always get in trouble.
- [46:32]
Arthur Idella
So that was.
- [46:33]
Mark Eiglarsch
And after I said that, you know, the wheel started turning his head, and.
- [46:37]
Arthur Idella
I. I wouldn't admit nothing.
- [46:39]
Mark Eiglarsch
I was just trying to get him off. Off the track of going and stealing something.
- [46:42]
Arthur Idella
Something.
- [46:42]
Mark Eiglarsch
Which it did. He didn't say nothing else about stealing nothing at night. Come.
- [46:46]
Arthur Idella
Sounds like a real Mark. Mark. I close defendant right there. You prepped him good, Mark. You prepped him real good. Good job.
- [46:53]
Mark Eiglarsch
If I prepped him, I failed. Listen, they bleeped it out, but let's rape this, okay? And he said that because he didn't want them to rob someone. So he says, let's rape this. Ashley, come on.
- [47:07]
Ashley Merchant
Oh, it makes no sense.
- [47:08]
Mark Eiglarsch
Denied at this point.
- [47:09]
Ashley Merchant
It makes no sense. That's. That's the worst fact. And, you know, I hate that, because oftentimes the worst fact is someone saying something stupid that doesn't make any sense. And you don't know. I mean, maybe they are stupid. Maybe he is just stupid and he just said something stupid. There wasn't even evidence that she was raped. So, you know, I hate that this is so damaging, but I can't ignore the fact that that is by far the most damaging evidence already.
- [47:30]
Mark Eiglarsch
Did you feel the same way? How did you. Did you really dismiss that comment? That's neutral. Nothing.
- [47:36]
Arthur Idella
Nothing. But sometimes, you know, Mark and Merchant. No, this is gonna be lame.
- [47:42]
Mark Eiglarsch
Lame alert.
- [47:43]
Arthur Idella
No, like, let me get comfortable for this.
- [47:45]
Mark Eiglarsch
Hold on.
- [47:45]
Arthur Idella
There are facts. This is why you're good. You're saddled with.
- [47:49]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yes.
- [47:50]
Arthur Idella
And you have to be creative. And, you know, some of us are more creative than others. I would not say that that was the most creative answer in the whole world. I think maybe, you know, saying he misheard me. I said, let's just go rob the bitch, not rape the bitch. That's much better.
- [48:04]
Mark Eiglarsch
Much better.
- [48:05]
Ashley Merchant
Oh, my God.
- [48:07]
Arthur Idella
It's definitely a lot better. Especially if there's four women on. There's a whole. There's a lot of real estate between robbery and rape, even in the penal law and in terms of punishment and everything else. So, you know, look, we all know there are facts that we're stuck with. Like, this is great. This is great. This is great. Well, what about that one thing? Yeah. And that's usually when we convince our clients to take the plea, right?
- [48:27]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah, I didn't like that comment.
- [48:30]
Arthur Idella
I.
- [48:30]
Mark Eiglarsch
Again, no judgment. Maybe he was framed like the Mona Lisa. But I'm telling you right now, when he said that, that I'll let the viewers decide. Right. They are going to make a decision, I think, by the end of the year. Let's see the resume.
- [48:47]
Arthur Idella
29Th of December. December 29th, resume. So it'll be done by the end of February. I don't know why we're throwing the Mona Lisa in here. What did the Mona Lisa do to you? Hi, Glosh. You're gonna talk about a rape and robbery murder case. And now you're.
- [48:59]
Mark Eiglarsch
Now you're coming after the defensive. Look at how.
- [49:02]
Arthur Idella
Because it's an Italian thing.
- [49:04]
Mark Eiglarsch
Look at. See what he does.
- [49:05]
Arthur Idella
Look at him. Unbelievable.
- [49:06]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right, let's move on. Let's talk Morgan.
- [49:08]
Arthur Idella
Guys, Pickleball.
- [49:10]
Mark Eiglarsch
Let's go play. Let's talk Morgan. Guys, I'd like to play pickleball. Let's finish this thing already. All right, so Morgan Geyser was 12 years old in 2014. How can you forget her? And Anisa Weir, she was also 12. They lured a third classmate into the woods, and they stabbed her 19 times, nearly killing her. This is not in dispute. Both of the defendants claimed they attacked the victim, who was named Peyton Leutner, to appease the fictional character Slender Man. They were both found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect, which is extremely rare in 2014. That was hard to do. And, wow, they really must have been cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. They really must have been disturbed. Now, Weir was released from custody in 2021. Geyser was released September 2025. And tell us what happened, Ashley. Why are we talking about this case again?
- [50:13]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah, we're talking about this case. And it's just. It's really sad because, Morgan, she was released essentially after many, many years. She had filed multiple petitions to try to be released from custody, and she was in a mental Institute. So I think it's important to kind of walk through how it works. She was 12 at the time that this happened, but they said that she had early onset schizophrenia. So she had definitely had a mental health defense. She could claim not guilty by reason of insanity, but this is one of those classic examples that it probably did more harm than good by having to claim that, because if she had just been tried as a juvenile, the government probably would not still be able to have custody and control of her. But because she was adjudicated mentally ill, they're able to essentially keep control over her for the majority of her life. So she wanted to go to what's considered, like, a less restrictive alternative. So she was finally released from this mental institute that she had spent all of her teenage years at, and she was put in this. In this group home. So they had a really hard time finding a group home that would actually take her. Found a group home that would take her. And she got this. This boyfriend. It was transsexual. I believe it was a male. You know, I may have that part wrong. Someone who. That she had found and developed a relationship with, and she had gotten in some type of trouble, and they were going to stop her visitation with this gentleman. So she was upset, and she wanted to escape so she could be with him. And, you know, it's awful, but you've got to also think you're. You're dealing with someone who has grown up in custody, They've grown up in a mental institution. They're on the psychotic spectrum. A lot of different things going on. Has had inconsistent treatment. So, you know, the fact that she eloped with someone that she thought she was in love with, I mean, it's just. It's sad. It's just really, really sad.
- [51:52]
Mark Eiglarsch
Yeah. So she cut off her GPS monitor, took off. Artie, I want to play this. Clip number six. Her lawyer spoke out while she was on the lam. I'm wondering if this is something you would ever do. Let's hear that. We just heard the news that Morgan has walked away from the group home that she was housed at. Obviously, it's in her best interest to turn herself in immediately and not continue. Continue with this course of action. We don't know any of the facts about what happened or who might have assisted her, but certainly if there is somebody who's assisted her, that person will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If anybody has contact with Morgan, hears from her, or if Morgan happens to see this, turn yourself in. Do not continue to remain on the run like this, it is not an your best interest to handle this matter that way. What do you think of that, Arthur?
- [52:44]
Arthur Idella
I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't object to law enforcement doing that. I wouldn't object to a guardian or next of kin doing that. But I, as her attorney, I don't think that that's my role. I mean, I know he said in there, you know, we don't know what the facts are. Then he's saying, you know, whoever's helping her is going to get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I don't think that's a criminal defense attorney's role to say that. So, no, I would, I would not do that. And, you know, people say, oh, are they going to get off in general, they're going to get off on an insanity defense. And when you get, when you do get off on an insanity defense, at least in New York, you wind up on a homicide. You wind up being more having more years incarcerated than if you got convicted. Because they don't, you know, doctors are the ones who make the decision about letting you out or not letting you out, as opposed to a parole board. And the doctors don't want to be the one saying, yeah, we let him out. And then they went and killed somebody else. So obviously this 12 year old at the time, you know, they were totally screwed up. I'd see where the defense attorney is coming from about wanting them to come back. Hey, I just got you this insane situation where you're, you know, you're not behind bars, you're, you're at liberty with this device on your ankle. But I mean, it also proves this case that she's got to be nuts because you got to be crazy to do what she did.
- [54:10]
Mark Eiglarsch
Ashley, were you concerned? They said that she was seen with an adult acquaintance around 8pm on Nov. 22. Do we have reason to still be concerned about this lady?
- [54:20]
Ashley Merchant
I think so. I mean, I think that we've got to be concerned because you have to think about how she's been raised. She's essentially spent her formative years in custody, so she hasn't had the opportunities to live outside of, you know, custodial walls like the rest of the kids. And we just hope and pray. I know you have kids yourself. We hope and pray that they can surv to become adults. You know, parents weren't able to parent her. She was in the, in the government's care. And so she's, she's vulnerable. I know that most of society views her as A predator. But she's definitely vulnerable. And she's vulnerable and, you know, the only thing she did was something she did at 12 when she was in a psychotic state. And so I do. I am concerned. And I can see why this attorney was concerned about her well being, because, you know, she could do something far worse while she's on the run and ruin the rest of her life. And if she's properly treated and she does well, she has a chance at actually joining society again.
- [55:10]
Mark Eiglarsch
Well, the good news is they found her, right? They found her at a truck stop about 25 miles south of Chicago. She was with a 42 year old man. Who is this dude, right? What are his intentions? And they were charged with criminal trespass, obstructing identification, and he's since been released from custody. When officers apprehended her, she's like that.
- [55:35]
Arthur Idella
That's a he. My glossy going with that was the one. I was there. Are people listening to this On. On Serious. So you have to describe Mr. Host, the person.
- [55:45]
Mark Eiglarsch
I don't get into that.
- [55:47]
Arthur Idella
All right, well, okay, you don't get it. You're showing a picture, you're saying it's a he's got purple hair, fake boobs, and it's clearly a man. So it's not a he.
- [55:55]
Mark Eiglarsch
I'm just. I'm reading.
- [55:57]
Arthur Idella
It's a he being dressed up as a she. I believe you call that person a transgender person. Correct. It's. Look, it's in the script. I lost. It's in the script. All right, Transgender. I'm not really going around on a limb here.
- [56:09]
Mark Eiglarsch
Here's what I do know. I do know that when police approached her, she just said, google me. Just Google me. You'll figure out.
- [56:16]
Arthur Idella
That's what eyeglush. Isn't that what you tell everyone? Google me.
- [56:21]
Mark Eiglarsch
I'm Arthur Idella. Don't you know who I am? Let me give you my list of clients.
- [56:25]
Arthur Idella
Come on. The difference between me and you is everyone knows who. Actually, it's like, oh, you're the one who brought down the big prosecutor.
- [56:31]
Mark Eiglarsch
That's it. All right, so more to come on on that case because. Listen, we're not done with her.
- [56:37]
Arthur Idella
What.
- [56:37]
Mark Eiglarsch
What do you do with her, by the way?
- [56:39]
Arthur Idella
She.
- [56:39]
Mark Eiglarsch
The ankle monitor didn't work. She cut that off.
- [56:42]
Arthur Idella
So she's going back in 100%. Any judge is putting her back in.
- [56:47]
Mark Eiglarsch
And then how do we. What do you do now? You. You nail her down to the bed. How do you keep her there?
- [56:52]
Arthur Idella
What do you keep her. You keep her in an institution that's monitored and you keep keeping her going to the doctors. I mean, usually, again, I don't know this jurisdiction, but usually you don't. It your supervision like never ends when maybe you can. I mean, they're still supervising John Hinckley from 1980, so. Or 81 or whatever the year was. So you know, they're just going to lock her in and start treatment again. And I don't think she's going to see the light of day for quite some time.
- [57:17]
Mark Eiglarsch
Okay, well, we have a lot more to talk about. We're going to be. I'm excited. The third segment of this case is of this one is very exciting. We've got quite a questions. We've got closing arguments. I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say in closing. We'll be back with that in just a moment.
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Ashley Merchant
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Ashley Merchant
Depending on certain loan attrib.
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Ashley Merchant
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Mark Eiglarsch
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- [59:16]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right, we're gonna get to closing arguments and your mail in just a moment. But first, did you know that this show now could be heard on SiriusXM? That's right. Megyn Kelly's got her own channel. And as part of Megyn Kelly's podcast playlist, MK True Crime will air Tuesday at 10am Eastern and Saturdays at 9am and 10am on Sirius XM channel 111. Join us there. Okay, now let's talk about.
- [59:50]
Arthur Idella
How about some mail? Why don't we do the mail?
- [59:54]
Mark Eiglarsch
All right, so a fellow from fellow attorney and fan of the show, Kelly. I love this show. She's a fellow attorney here in Colorado. I wish I had gone the criminal law route because I find it so interesting. She wrote. But she works in the more boring field of, of corporate compliance. Her question is, what really goes on behind closed doors in a defense attorney client dynamic where culpability is overwhelming but they continue to deny. I'm sure that's never, ever happened to either one of you. Okay.
- [60:33]
Arthur Idella
You mean today, right?
- [60:34]
Mark Eiglarsch
Oh, my goodness. Every day. So a client, so guilty, you know, the client's guilty, but they say, I didn't do it. Ashley, take us into that dynamic.
- [60:44]
Ashley Merchant
You know, I always tell clients, I'm only as good as the information that you give me. So if you don't tell me the truth, then I am hamstrung and I can't necessarily do my job. Sometimes when clients are in that room and they tell me that they did it or they tell me that they didn't do it and I know they did do it, we usually shift to talking about what's in your best interest and if the government's going to be able to prove the case. Case oftentimes, working out mitigation and trying to resolve it with some type of a negotiation is definitely going to be in their best interest. And so I always try to introduce that concept gently because it is. It's just going to be in their best interest. And oftentimes closure is in everyone's best interest.
- [61:22]
Mark Eiglarsch
What about you, Artie? I'm sure your clients.
- [61:24]
Arthur Idella
No, no, she's right. But imagine she, she. She's right. And sometimes you got to put the evidence right in, literally right in front of them. I represented a young man who was charged with murder in Brooklyn, New York, work. And for two years. He didn't do it. He didn't do it. He didn't do it. And the evidence was not overwhelming. It was someone who was shot in a car from a guy on the sidewalk. He didn't do it on his kids. He didn't do it on his mother. He didn't do it. And we literally picking a jury. The jurors are going to come in, and we're going to start picking the jury. And I'm in front of a pretty stern judge. And he goes, all right, all right. I got to talk to you. I got to talk to you. I go, bro, you can't talk to me. The jury's coming, and he's panic. I got it. I go, judge. And she could see. The judge can see it. I'm like, all right, right? We go in the back where the judge's chamber. She gave us her room. And he goes, all right, I'm gonna come clean with you. I did the murder now for two years, he hadn't done the murder. I go, okay. I go, okay, Anibal, now I gotta. I gotta try to get you a peace. I want to plead. I go, okay, but why don't you want to plead? You tell me you did the murder. He goes, I'm gonna be angry. I'm gonna be mad. And every day in jail, I'm gonna be angry. I'm really mad. I go, who are you gonna be? Angry and mad? He goes, you. I go, at me, me. What are you gonna be angry and mad at me for? He goes, you were supposed to get me out of this mess. Oh, really? I go, I'm not the one who shot the guy in the car in front of the eyewitness. And I wound up getting him. I go, I went outside. I spoke to the prosecutor. They made a call. We got 11 years on a homicide, so nice. He actually worked it out by pausing the. The proceedings for two years. But I've been lied to about innocence so many times, until.
- [62:57]
Mark Eiglarsch
Same here.
- [62:57]
Arthur Idella
The rubber meets the road, and all.
- [62:59]
Mark Eiglarsch
Of a sudden, here.
- [63:00]
Arthur Idella
Well, maybe, right?
- [63:02]
Mark Eiglarsch
And you know what? I don't. I don't try to confro straight up usually. Let's let it play out, right? And then I just say we're moving closer to trial. Again, I'm not going to force you. But again, you.
- [63:14]
Commercial Announcer
You.
- [63:15]
Mark Eiglarsch
You confessed in detail. And. And again, there's DNA and fingerprints and, you know, and. And Arthur saw you do it as well. But again, you know, I'm a good lawyer. If you want to go to trial, you know, you're facing 30 years, they're offering us probation. But again, up to you. What would you like me to do? So, you know, you see what they.
- [63:34]
Arthur Idella
Do, it happens often.
- [63:35]
Mark Eiglarsch
It does.
- [63:36]
Arthur Idella
All right.
- [63:36]
Mark Eiglarsch
So, great question. Thank you for letting us relive those experiences. All right, we're moving into closing arguments. And Arthur, are you ready for close?
- [63:44]
Arthur Idella
Yeah, I'm going to keep it short and sweet as we're supposed to. And it's, it's. And I usually avoid the political topics, but it's very topical right now, especially where I'm seated in midtown Manhattan. So I'm kind of in between the very, very left leaning area of lower Manhattan and the very, very right leaning area of Staten Island. And I just want to compliment the very right leaning President Donald Trump and the very left leaning Mayor elect Mamdani. They're both catching heat from their respective bases for being so nice to each other. The President of the United States and the Mayor elect of the city of New York. And I found it refreshing. They found it energizing. And I hope it could just, they could just detonate. At least there's a calm between them. These are two individuals who said some horrible things about the other person, but now they're in charge. The mayor's in charge of my city. The president's in charge of my country. The better they work together, the better it is for the citizens that I love here in the five boroughs. And you know what they say, you know, New York sneezes, America catches a cold. And that was true definitely during COVID So kudos to the president for taking his personal feelings and his personal agenda and putting it to the side and looking at his hometown of New York. And to Mr. Mamdani, who kind of thumbed his nose at his own base, probably wanted him to go in there and smack the president in the face. And he couldn't have been more respectful and deferential. Kudos to both of them.
- [65:15]
Mark Eiglarsch
Thank you, Arthur. Nicely done. Good closing. Ashley, we're ready for your question.
- [65:19]
Ashley Merchant
Close. All right. Well, so I always try to talk about some aspect of the criminal justice system and the process to sort of educate the viewers on what's really happening behind behind the scenes. And you mentioned earlier in the show how we're actually practicing attorneys. So I want to talk a little bit about a case that I had last week. I had a trial, a jury trial, and it was a vehicular homicide case. I tried it in the great state of Georgia, not in the Atlanta area, but in another area. And the reason I want to talk about it, two things. First of all, I'm excited because I got a 23 minute record breaking not guilty verdict. Never had one in 23 minutes. So I was excited About. But the reason. Thank you. The reason I want to talk about it, though, is charging decisions and plea options and things like that. And sort of kind of goes in with that question that we got from Kelly in Colorado. You know, how do you talk to your clients about what they did and what they didn't do? It's particularly hard when they did something, but they're charged with something else, and that's what happened in this case. So my client had been involved in a car accident, and he was the cause of the car accident. That was undisputed. But he had committed a misdemeanor. And in the state of Georgia, if you commit a misdemeanor and a death result results in a car accident, that is a misdemeanor vehicular homicide. But if the state wants to, they can charge basically whatever they want, and there's no repercussions. So because everyone was so upset about this case, they decided to charge him with a felony. Unfortunately for the state, it's only a felony if you commit the crime while you're under the influence of alcohol or while you're driving recklessly. And in this case, he failed to stop for a stop sign. It was not reckless driving. It was failure to come to a complete stop. So because the case was overcharged, we had to go to trial on a felony. He always admitted to the misdemeanor traffic offense. That was never in dispute. It was the fact that it was overcharged. And the government forced us to go to trial on a case that could have landed him in prison for 15 years. So, you know, I just point this out to mention how important the charging decision is. And a lot of times criminal defense attorneys will get an indictment where there's 30 or something charge charges. And your client, maybe they did something, maybe they ran the red light, but that doesn't mean that they did everything on that case. And so it's unfortunate because we still have to defend against all of those charges. So, you know, for three years, I had to prepare that case for trial. We had to fight it like it was a felony. It is, unfortunately, a waste of judicial resources, a waste of the jury's time, but that is how our justice system works. So I'm happy that he was finally vindicated, but I'm sad for society because they lost out. That case should never have gone to trial.
- [67:50]
Mark Eiglarsch
Excellent. Thank you, Ashley, for your closing. Here's mine. You know, I have never been a fan of mandatory minimum prison terms, also known as minimum mandatories or min mans. They are One of the most rigid and short sighted failures in our criminal justice system. They were sold as consistency. But what they often actually create, create state is guaranteed injustice. Instead of letting judges impose a fair sentence based upon the facts and the specific human beings in front of them and the unique facts of the case that they explore. Mandatory minimums, slams down a one size fits all punishment. They ignore the context and the circumstances and the law basically said, too bad, dead. That's the number. That's what the lawyers and the legislators say. So that's it. That's what he gets. All those numbers are so harsh, they've turned the system into a plea coercion machine. So often prosecutors don't have to prove anything, they just dangle a mandatory decade, 25 year minimum mandatory. And suddenly even innocent people start to explore. Or should I take a plea? That's not justice, it's legalized intimidation. Mandatory minimums, they don't make us safer. They strip judges of discretion. They explode prison populations and mechanically ruin lives. In my 33 years in the criminal arena as a former prosecutor, defense lawyer, I've actually seen numerous examples, examples of judges, some veteran, well respected judges who are handing out at sentencing 10 year minimum mandatories, 25 years in prison. And they're like, sorry, I don't think it's appropriate, but my hands are tied. This is what I must do. That's not a justice system, that's a conveyor belt. And while these laws definitely show that we're tough on crime, they're also extremely tough on fairness, compassion and common sense.
- [70:07]
Arthur Idella
Mark, to your point here in the Southern District of New York, when the mandatory minimums and the guidelines were obligatory, I mean the mandatory minimums are still mandatory, but the guidelines were obligatory. Judges resigned from the bench here in New York because they just couldn't live with themselves sentencing people to these crimes that they didn't to these Gael terms that is so crazy that they didn't think they deserved. I mean, the Supreme Court eventually said the guidelines are guidelines, they're not mandatory guidelines. And now judges have a lot more discretion, but not for those mandatory crimes of which I was in prison yesterday, interviewing a client about one of those crimes. And it's another one where he does not deserve a mandatory minimum of 15 years in jail by anyone's consideration.
- [70:56]
Mark Eiglarsch
I remember one case back in the day where a woman agreed to take a suitcase from one place to the next. She knew that it probably contained something illicit. She was paid like a very specific amount, like $7,132. And when asked why was that the amount? Because that was the exact amount that her daughter's surgery cost. That's why she did it. And she was facing a 25 year minimum mandatory. So I've never liked them takes away discretion from judges and obviously that's why I feel very strongly about it. Okay, first, I want to thank Arthur. I want to thank Ashley. Thank you for joining us today. I loved our time together. We won't have a new show Friday, unfortunately, because we're all going to be in food comas after Thanksgiving. Enjoy your time with friends and family and I just want to let you all know how grateful we are for you. Thank you and have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
- [71:55]
Arthur Idella
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
- [71:56]
Ashley Merchant
Happy Thanksgiving.
- [72:00]
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Ashley Merchant
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