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MK True Crime
Diddy Wants Bail and a Trump Pardon, Ghislaine Maxwell's Next Move, "TikTok Cult" Pastor Home Raided
00:47:59
MK True Crime contributors Mark Eiglarsh, Jonna Spilbor, and Mark Geragos join the show to discuss the latest on Diddy, the reasoning behind his fifth bail denial, what Ghislaine Maxwell really knows about Epstein’s crimes, the raid on “7M TikTok Cult” leader’s property over sex-trafficking claims, rumors of a Donna Adelson plea deal, and Gary Busey’s struggle with Zoom as he pleads guilty to sex crimes virtually. Eiglarsh: www.SpeaktoMark.com Spilbor: https://jonnaspilbor.com Geragos: www.Geragos.com Byrna: Go to https://Byrna.com or your local Sportsman's Warehouse today. Just Thrive: Visit https://justthrivehealth.com/discount/Megyn and use code MEGYN to save 20% sitewide Follow MK True Crime on all social platforms: YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@MKTrueCrime X - https://x.com/mktruecrime Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mktruecrime TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mktruecrime
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- [00:01]
A
When work gets crazy, I like to stop by the bar after, have a few cold ones.
- [00:06]
B
I don't drink at all until 4 o'. Clock. We limit ourselves to one bottle of wine a night.
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A
Excessive drinking has a way of sneaking up on us. A few drinks, a few nights a week, it can add up. And suddenly we're at greater risk for long term problems like heart disease, cancer and depression. Reason enough to rethink to Drink more@rethinkthedrink.com no HA Initiative.
- [00:35]
B
Hello and welcome to MK True Crime. I'm Mark Eiglarsch and this is the very first episode ever. The first one. This is the newest MK Media podcast offering. We're going to focus on all the big cases, the ones you want to talk about, the big high profile legal and true crime stories that we know that you care about. Now, joining me today, which gets me giddy, I don't say that just to fake enthusiasm. I am excited to be joined by two of the A list, top notch attorneys in the country. And that's Mark Garagos and Jona Spilber. Welcome to you both. Let me just give a brief bio. This guy Garagos, he's had a couple clients that you may or may not have heard of. This guy, what was his name? Oh, yeah, Michael Jackson, Diddy, those brothers they call Menendez. Right. Maybe you've heard of them. And also Jona Spilbert, who also champions on behalf of her client. She's zealous. She's tremendous. She's a veteran attorney and she's got her own firm, the Janice Spilber Law Firm. Welcome to you both.
- [01:52]
A
Hey, Mark, should I call you Mark E. So that you can distinguish between us? John, how are you?
- [02:00]
B
We can do that. It's a little Mark sandwich, if you will. We got Spilber in the middle and two marks on the other side. Yeah, very exciting. So apparently the producers have put together something that I have not seen yet because we all have been on Megyn Kelly's podcast and Fox News for decades and apparently they put together some kind of montage. So this is how we got here. Let's take a look right now.
- [02:27]
C
Look who's here. Look who's actually in the studio. Mark Eichlarsch was all set and ready to argue.
- [02:33]
B
Megyn Kelly is touching me. This is wonderful.
- [02:35]
D
First they have to find that there were aggravating factors. And if you ask me, Megan, there are three aggravating factors in this. First, the poor victim was naked in the shower, stabbed 27 times. That wasn't good enough. Let's put two bullet holes in his face. To me, that's aggravating.
- [02:50]
A
Could have cross examined you on your the foundation for you to be a poop Oliver.
- [02:55]
B
You know what?
- [02:55]
C
I'm gonna get my son Thatcher out here, and he will spend all day discussing poop with you.
- [03:00]
A
Really focus on the chick. Because it is not the idea, it is the implementation of the idea. And that implementation, that an animal could pick a winning football team as well as a human. It's the exact same thing. It's even the same animal. That is a clear violation.
- [03:16]
B
United States, they wouldn't be suing for defamation.
- [03:21]
C
Humiliated her.
- [03:23]
B
Megan. Hold on, hold on. There's something wrong with my earpiece. I can't hear. Perhaps, perhaps, Meghan, we should let the audience finish this analysis. I love it when he brings up.
- [03:31]
D
Well, I don't think this is defamation. And frankly, Arthur, I don't see how it's slanderous to say we didn't have sex. If she was saying we didn't have good sex, that might be slanderous.
- [03:39]
A
But if they did have sex, she's lying about it.
- [03:41]
D
That's slanderous.
- [03:42]
A
Isn't this guy reminiscent of the public defender and my cousin Vinny? Oh, my God.
- [03:47]
D
I said that if you keep showing my cousin Vinny clips, I'm gonna do my best Marisa Tomei impersonation. It's called disclosure, you dickhead. Not bad. Not bad.
- [03:59]
B
Very good. Oh, that is wonderful. Love it. Oh, my goodness.
- [04:06]
A
You know, they should knock you off of this marquee and let her start with they call this true crime in her.
- [04:13]
B
I agree. Wow, that was phenomenal. And poopologist. What the hell is that? Anyway? All right, so we're going to talk some true crime. Okay, you ready to go, guys?
- [04:24]
D
Ready?
- [04:24]
A
You know, I push back already. I don't know that Diddy is true crime, but let's go. Come on.
- [04:30]
B
Okay, well, it's high profile. Let's talk Diddy. Okay, as all of you likely know, on July 2, 2025, the jury came back. We were waiting to see whether the government can sell racketeering, typically reserved for the mob, right, and turn it into an Al Capone who's into lube. And that's what they tried to make him out to be. Didn't work. Sex trafficking went away. He was convicted on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. And they claimed that this violated the man act. And the jury went along with it right out of the gate. I don't know that people Know this, but Mark Garagos has a connection to the case. His daughter represented Diddy in this trial. And the first question I have for you, Mark, and this is of tremendous interest to me because my daughter revealed not too long ago that she, too, wants to follow in my footsteps. She wants to go to law school. So it'll be Iglorsch and I Glarche at some point, which sounds more like a sneeze. I wanna know when you got the verdict. I wanna know what words you exchanged with her. Was it by text? Was it in person? And what did you say to your sweet offspring?
- [05:42]
A
It was in person. I was there at the courthouse. There was a auxiliary place where we met. I gave her a hug. I had. I may have had a tear in my eye. I've known sean for over 15 years. I think I had told Megan yesterday when we were talking about this. I watched her give the opening in this case. And I sat in the courtroom and all I could think of, speaking of Eyeglash and Eye Blash is the name of my firm is Garrigus and Garrigus. I. My part was my father, who was my kind of hero and mentor. And he. He practiced. In fact, he was sworn in as a prosecutor the same month I was conceived. And I thought about him and the idea that his mother, my grandmother had him when she was 14, had run away from the Ottoman Turks, chasing her around the desert, and from a Turkish orphanage, somehow gave birth to my dad at 14. And here, one generation, two generations, three generations later, she's standing in a. In a Southern District courtroom giving an opening, crazy statement in a case like this. It might have made me a little emotional.
- [06:55]
B
What did you say to her? What were the words that you said to her? And that'll also give me insight on whether you thought that this was the right verdict, whether you were happy for her or.
- [07:04]
A
Well, I will tell you. I will tell you this. I don't know that I told anybody this. I was with her the night before. She. The. The jury had come back, and the jury said they were hung on the rico.
- [07:17]
B
Right.
- [07:17]
A
Which was count one. And that they had reached verdicts on the other four counts. And there was not going to say it was her, but there were those in the defense camp who were very, very depressed. And at first I kind of fell into that group until I read the note. When I read the note. Yeah, a light bulb went off because they said, we are. We're hung. Yeah, we have. Unpersuadable, basically.
- [07:47]
B
So you knew. You knew where this was going.
- [07:49]
A
I knew at that point what was. Nobody is hanging on the RICO and finding guilt on the other four counts.
- [07:57]
B
Correct. So you were thrilled. I mean, bottom line, you're thrilled, number one, that your daughter did her very best and you produce someone who just yesterday was in diapers and now she's up there using big words and making you proud. But you're also thrilled about the outcome. Correct?
- [08:10]
A
Correct. I mean, look.
- [08:11]
B
All right, Johnna, you followed you. What was that?
- [08:14]
A
I've known Sean for a. For over a decade and obviously her since I first swaddled her. So.
- [08:21]
B
Got it. So, John, you follow the case. First of all, your thoughts. Did the jury get it right? Yes or no?
- [08:29]
D
The jury did get it right in some inside baseball. I followed Mark yesterday. We were both on Meghan's show. And so I have a different take on Diddy, but I do think justice prevailed here. My opinion of Diddy, I said it before, I'll say it again, is that Diddy is a dirtbag. I haven't known him for 15 years. I think he comes across as a terrible, horrible person. We saw things that we cannot unsee vis a vis this trial. However, it was never going to be a guilty on the rico. It was overcharged from the beginning. And I do agree, agree that Tenny Garagos did a fantastic job. Cuz even with these two guilty verdicts on these smaller charges, that is an unmistakable win. Where I think this case is going off the rails is personally and don't send me hate mail. He should have been released on bail. That argument should have been successful. And it's.
- [09:23]
B
That's what I want to talk about.
- [09:24]
D
Why that's a problem.
- [09:26]
B
Tell me why. Make the argument. Couple sentences. You're standing there in front of the judge. Argue what? Not a danger to the community, not a risk of flight. What are you arguing, Jonna?
- [09:35]
D
Check, check and more check. Look, this guy is going to walk very soon after sentencing because the guidelines dictate that he is only likely to be sentenced to around two years. He's already been in there half of that time with the good time credits. Carry the one, divide by two. He's gonna walk, so why not let him out on bail pending sentencing? The judge has an axe grind. My opinion. And just sidebar, if you ever listen to Maureen call on the nerve. That's one of her favorite sayings. My opinion, he's got an ax to grind and he's paying lip service to the law in order to do it. That's unfair. As much as I don't like him, Mark.
- [10:13]
B
She called him a dirtbag. You gonna disagree?
- [10:17]
A
Look, I have said, and I'll say it again, Sean has achieved incredible things. Take a look at the kid who was born in Harlem, made a billionaire out of himself, was became a brand in both fashion and music and everything else. He has tremendous, tremendous successes. He is also, like a lot of people, had tremendous challenges with substance abuse. It's not an excuse for the violence, and clearly there is violence, but it's an explanation. And he's as John says, he sat there for a year. By the way, the man act has never ever. I defy anybody to find a similarly situated person sitting in custody based on. Based on hiring prostitutes to who you don't have.
- [11:11]
B
Well, it's not. Let me give you a pushback. It's not just that. Right. Isn't the judge allowed to consider what we call the relevant conduct in federal court? No, he's not allowed to consider that for purposes of bond, not for sentencing. No.
- [11:25]
A
In this case, though, what he's found is he found that at the government's urging, that the particular man act violations are under the chapter of the code that has all of the. Basically a catch. All that says, all of these are violent. You can really. You can get out of that because there's a safety valve which says exceptional circumstances. He didn't find that. I say that's. This is where we part company. The exceptional circumstances are there's never been been anybody who hasn't had sex who's been charged with this crime for having somebody. Males crossing state lines to have sex with their girlfriend. That's just unheard of. And by the way, if you apply this statute to pornhub to only fans to the Burbank airport on a Friday afternoon when people are going to Vegas, you could criminalize this across the board.
- [12:22]
B
I got you, John. Do you disagree in that? Can't the judge consider the facts and circumstances surrounding the actual offense? In other words? Yeah, if somebody brings a prostitute over for a party and the feds go after him, that's one thing. But if there's a lot more to consider. And boy, did we learn a lot during this trial. Isn't the judge allowed to consider that when determining sentencing?
- [12:47]
D
When determining sentencing, yeah. But what happened. And for bond a day or two ago, right? Where is. Can I just. Where is Diddy going to go in this day and age? You can put an ankle monitor on him, take his passport, take his planes. He's putting up a $50 million bond. Like, honestly. And I have said this before too. This is one of two things in the judge's mind. Either the judge knows that he is going to be so constrained at sentencing that Diddy is going to walk very soon after the sentencing date because he has to because of the guidelines and the good time credit, or this judge really has an ax to grind and he is going to try to find a way to upwardly depart and really stick it to Diddy. And under the circumstances, put aside what we saw that we didn't want to see. When you just go by the letter of the law and the two charges that he was convicted of, this case does not call for an upward departure. If anything at this point, maybe even a downward.
- [13:44]
B
You said about Mark, let me. You said two years. But Mark. Yeah. Aren't we hearing the prosecutors alleging is somewhere in the five year area? Five, six years. Who's right?
- [13:54]
A
The prosecutors are sore losers. I mean clearly they're sore losers.
- [13:58]
B
The upset.
- [13:59]
A
The guidelines call for 21 to 27 months. There's no way any rational human is going to say there's eight victims and the eight victims were these escorts. The escorts are out doing interviews everywhere saying, I wasn't an escort, I loved Cassie or I was, I'm writing a book or Cassie was paying me or blah, blah, blah. So I mean that is the way that they've tortured this. As far as the other conduct, you know, Mark and John will, I think back me up on this. There is a case called Apprendi. If you're going to say I'm going to use facts. A jury heard all of this. If you wanted them to make findings about other conduct, then have the jury decided. Don't, don't act as a 13th juror and say I'm going to revise this because that's what the government is doing here. The government is basically saying, hey judge, with disregard everything that we presented. By the way, we're going to redact. The judge wasn't buying this. They redacted yet some other garbage that they hadn't put into the trial in their letter to the judge because they wanted to just try and throw everything against the wall. You can't do that.
- [15:08]
B
He. All right, so, so quick question, quick question, both of you. I want to move on to Maxwell soon. What do you predict? Quick answer. What do you predict? The judge gives Diddy. Jona.
- [15:21]
D
He's got to go with the guidelines and then did. He's going to walk shortly thereafter. Like I said, when you do jail math, he walks shortly thereafter. That's the only thing the judge.
- [15:29]
B
What do you think?
- [15:30]
A
Somewhere between 21 to 27 months. And I think he gets bail. I think he gets bail on appeal because he's got a health argument that.
- [15:38]
B
The eviction should be reversed if that's really the case. If he's really intending on going with the guidelines and the guidelines are as low as you say he should be out right now. He really should.
- [15:47]
A
That's.
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B
That's a little insane. Well, I look five years, six years. All right, there's some meat in the game. Maybe he's going to go a little higher. Put you $50 million. He pledged he had co signers there on their.
- [16:02]
A
On the day the verdict came in on the record, the then U.S. attorney Maureen Comey, now since fired Maureen Comey argued that it was somewhere between 41 and 50 months. John, I will tell you, even at 41 to 50 months, it's so low. Qualifies for first step. He qualifies rdap the programs. He's going to be out in less than a year anyway.
- [16:24]
B
And halfway house on the back end. He has a drug problem. Yeah. I mean, you know, how much time is he really going to do? Right. Let me ask you this. All right, so let's say he's sentenced to whatever he sentenced. And now the big talk of Trump. Trump could pardon him. This is federal court, baby. What are the chances of that? Jonah, apparently Trump says he's half innocent. Now, I've had three kids, me and my wife, and she's never been half pregnant. So what does half innocent mean, Jon? What does that mean?
- [16:54]
D
Well, let me just say I'm in Meghan's camp when it comes to this. I don't think Trump should even entertain a pardon for a couple of reasons. Number one, why he's going to get out of prison. And I get maybe, maybe Trump believes, I know a lot of people believe that he was wrongfully prosecuted from the get go. Okay. That doesn't necessarily mean that he deserves a pardon. If he got some ridiculous sentence, then maybe Trump should revisit it. But as it is right now, he shouldn't touch it or that it's going to help Diddy.
- [17:23]
B
Let me ask, let me, I want to play. I haven't heard this clip. I want to hear Trump saying half innocent. I don't know how he said that. It's SOT number two. Let's, let's listen to what Trump has to say.
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A
Sean Diddy Combs, right. Would you consider pardoning him?
- [17:39]
E
Well, he was essentially, I guess, sort of Half innocent?
- [17:42]
B
Yes.
- [17:42]
E
I don't know what they do still in jail or something, but he was celebrating a victory. But he seems, I guess it wasn't as good as a victory probably. You know, I was very friendly with him. I got along with him great and seemed like a nice guy. I didn't know him well, but when I ran for office, he was very hostile.
- [18:06]
A
He said some not so nice things about you, sir.
- [18:08]
E
And it's hard, you know, like you, we're human beings, right, It's. And we don't like to have things cloud our judgment. Right. But when you knew someone and you were fine and then you run for office and he made some terrible statements.
- [18:25]
A
So.
- [18:25]
E
I don't know, it's more difficult. It makes it more. I'm being honest, it makes it more difficult to do.
- [18:31]
A
But more likely a no for Combs?
- [18:34]
E
I would say so.
- [18:36]
B
Well, I've got a lot of clients who are half innocent. Mark, really quick, we're going to do. I guess we'll catch Maxwell in a little bit. But yes or no, should Trump pardon him? Number two, do you think he will?
- [18:49]
A
I would only quibble with the half innocent because he was found not guilty on four out of six.
- [18:55]
B
So yeah, he's off on his math.
- [18:58]
A
Three out of five. So do the math. But number two, you know, in the old days I used to say a Democrat is a Republican who's been indicted. Now I gotta say that a Republican is a Democrat who's been indicted. So I will. I would push back on the President and say he ought to at the very least commute the sentence.
- [19:19]
B
Okay, all right, we'll see, we'll see what he does. All right, up next, we're going to get into Maxwell. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
- [19:28]
C
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- [20:40]
B
All right, now, time to talk. Jelane Maxwell. She's probably very happy this week. They just moved her from the hell that she was in to a minimum security, what they call Club Fed. And we're all familiar with that because our clients, you know, always hope to go to the Club Fed, maybe play a little pickleball. You know, I don't know what they've got there these days, but apparently the other inmates ain't too happy with her. They don't want her there, John. Why don't they want her there?
- [21:11]
D
Well, listen, we're talking to fellow inmates who are so bored that they write motions on toilet paper and send them to the court. So I don't really. I don't know why they don't want her there, but I know why Ghislaine doesn't want to be in any federal prison, even Club Fed. And I will say this, full disclosure. I am in a small minority who believes that Ghislaine Maxwell was a scapegoat and never should have been. Never should have been charged, let alone convicted. I know the hate mail will come, but I have to speak my truth.
- [21:44]
B
Well, let's see. Does Garagos agree? Do you agree or disagree?
- [21:48]
A
Don't. Just address it to Jon if you want to redirect it my way. I agree. She was. I'll tie it up with Diddy. I. You know, it's not a coincidence that the same prosecutor and prosecution team is starting. What's his name, Damian Williams, who was auditioning to be Attorney General under Kamala, was the one who indicted Joe and had Epstein and had the mayor and had the Sean Diddy combs and then had. What's her name? Maureen Comey. Prosecuting Ghislaine, then prosecuting Diddy. It was a distraction. It was a prosecution by proxy. To Jonah's point that she didn't say, but I think I anticipate she was prosecuted because Epstein was dead. Yeah.
- [22:43]
B
Well, wait, so she was framed like the Mona Lisa? She did nothing to facilitate his evil acts. Come on, people. Come on.
- [22:49]
A
But by the way, the.
- [22:51]
B
The.
- [22:52]
A
The. The idea that somehow she was the one who was criminally responsible for what he was doing, I think is a stretch.
- [23:05]
B
Can't they both be? I mean, the getaway driver, the bank robbery could be.
- [23:09]
A
But remember, if there's two reasonable interpretations, you must adopt the one that points towards innocence.
- [23:15]
B
So these people at the jail she was moved to Bryan, Texas, and you know, the bureau of prison is being hushed. You know, they don't say anything about why she was moved to this country club. You guys have any thought process? I could tell you this, that the people there are saying that this is supposed to house non violent offenders. Somebody said. And human trafficking is a violent offense. Somebody said. What are your thoughts, Jonna?
- [23:44]
D
Okay, so where do I start? Look, I know what she was convicted of. But from the get go, if you really want to analyze the timeline of the entire two decades of this story, of the Epstein Ghislaine Maxwell story, you will see that something smells bad. Starting with the fact that if Ghislaine's the accomplice to you, because sidebar. I firmly believe that somebody can know where bodies are buried without having helped bury them. And that's the position that I think she's in. So why did they not arrest her back in 2004 or five when Jeffrey Epstein got his so called sweetheart deal? Because they knew of her then. But what people don't realize is that her relationship with Epstein had ended in 1999. Like she had no relationship with him from that point forward. So they don't arrest her, then fast forward, Epstein gets arrested, he later drops dead, and then she's arrested. Why wasn't she arrested when he was first arrested for the second time? I mean, there are things here that don't make sense and it's a little bit of a shell game by the sdny, which they've done before. We've seen that happen before. So I think if somebody really digs in to the behind the scenes of the prosecution, they're going to smell something as bad as I'm smelling with them as well.
- [25:04]
B
Okay, Mark, what we all want, really, I think, think is to punish those who harm children. Okay, so if there were others with Epstein, we want to know about it, not people who flew on his plane and hung out with him. That's unfair. Those people, like Dershowitz and others are really getting their name soiled as a result of their association with this high profile guy. But those who harm children, we want to know about it. Are we going to find out through this woman Maxwell, ever?
- [25:33]
A
No, I don't think you are. I mean, I look the. What they have said and I have no, no even reasonable suspicion to believe that she knows or has any information about the crimes now or that were happening later on. John, I hit it right on the head. She wasn't involved during the relevant time periods, number one. Number two, she spent two days with Todd Blanch kind of debriefing. And she, I assume, did that. It's been reported and I'm going to guess that it was under what's called a queen for a day. And which means that she had limited immunity. She would have revealed everything that she knew. And if she didn't, there are consequences. And if that's the case, the DOJ knows it. And so if there is something there, you think they're going to turn their. They're going to turn a blind eye to it. I don't buy that.
- [26:32]
B
So we have these congressional hearings going on now, potentially. Jona, we going to learn anything there? Or like I said on Megan's show, is this going to be like, you know, when Geraldo had us all gripped to the TV to see what was in Al Capone's vault and then nothing. I'm still resentful. Are we going to, are we going to get any names, real names of perpetrators here?
- [26:54]
D
Well, first of all, I think the congressional hearings are going to be postponed because Ghislaine does have a petition awaiting to be heard by the Supreme Court of the United States.
- [27:02]
B
Explain that to the viewers. Explain what that's about. Because if she wins. Right. She potentially has her conviction. Go bye bye. Do you want to explain what she's arguing?
- [27:11]
D
If they hear it. So Ghislaine has had a number of appeals, as anybody does when you lose a criminal case, and she is now a petition pending before the Supreme Court. I don't know if the Supreme Court has said they are going to actually entertain it yet.
- [27:24]
B
I don't think they're going.
- [27:25]
D
We won't know that until.
- [27:27]
A
Yeah, I don't think they've ruled yet.
- [27:29]
D
Yeah, I don't think they have.
- [27:30]
B
I can't imagine this has the broad appeal, but explain to the viewers the issue that might set her free if the Supremes take the case and if they return a verdict in her favor.
- [27:41]
D
Her issue at its core is she did not receive a fair trial. And one of the contentions that she has been trying to hammer home this entire time is that the government has been hiding exculpatory evidence. That's what we call a Brady violation in most circles. And that is such a big violation that a government can commit that sometimes the only proper remedy is to get rid of the case. So that's one of the things that she is contending but let's behind the scenes, let's go behind the curtain a little bit. When you talk about the list and the Al Capone's vault and blah, blah, blah. If there were any harmful information, she was prosecuted under Biden's doj. If there was any information harmful to, say, Donald Trump, which we know that the lawfare and everybody went after him for four years, we would have known about it. Why do we know nothing? Can one surmise that perhaps there is some harmful information to a Democrat, the Democrats, certain Democrats that they want hushed up. And what better way to hush up a person than prosecute him, lock them up and throw away the key. My opinion again, not Maureen.
- [28:52]
B
So, so Mark, she's arguing that Epstein entered into a deal with prosecutors that any other coconspirators named four. But clearly in that agreement it appears that it covered others potentially. And she would be an other. She wasn't named. And I think that hurts her argument, but that they wouldn't be prosecuted. The issue with the Supreme Court is that she's arguing that that bound all prosecutors in all jurisdictions, not just in the Southern district or particular jurisdiction. Will the Supreme Court hear that issue? Do you think it's big enough to warrant them taking this on their docket?
- [29:30]
A
So this has been an issue that I've fought For close to 40 years, this idea that each district is their own little fiefdom and that, sorry, we're going to prosecute you for crimes that can happen anywhere in the US but if you get convicted or if you cut a deal that you're only our only authority is in our district. I think that's a big enough issue if they take it on that specific issue. I remember having that in New York a couple of years ago, specifically where I wanted in the Eastern District to get coverage on the under the plea agreement in the northern. And I had to jump through unbelievable hoops to get that done. So it is a problem. It occurs every single day. And it should be something the Supreme U.S. supreme Court decides.
- [30:23]
B
But you don't think that they will pick this up.
- [30:25]
A
The problem with the, with SCOTUS and granting review is it's about like hitting the lottery. And you can't, you can't ever say, hey, it's likely. And there are people who make a living out of prognosticating what cases are going to get taken.
- [30:41]
B
All right, so moving to our next topic. I asked both of you, yes or no. Do you follow TikTok? You like TikTok? Do you Jonna?
- [30:51]
D
I recently got on the TikTok. So I'm not a big tiktoker yet.
- [30:55]
B
Garagos, you strike me as someone who doesn't really spend his time watching TikTok videos, but who knows? I don't know.
- [31:01]
A
I. Yeah, I'm not a big TikTok guy, so.
- [31:04]
B
Well, apparently if you. If you. If you watch TikTok, you might have been familiar with a lot of these dances and stuff. And who knew that there was a guy running a cult and he would have people dance and he'd make money. Allegedly. And a sex trafficking warrant was served as at an LA home owned by this alleged TikTok cult pastor. Apparently we're gonna be covering this topic in the upcoming months. On Friday, July 25, agents from the Postal Service, IRS, Department of Labor, all served a warrant at about 6am and there was an extensive search. As you can see from the video. There are people who are detained. They're looking into allegations of sex trafficking, money laundering, tax evasion, COVID 19, pandemic related fraud. This was a big, big scenario. And my first question to you, Jonna. Any chance that the feds just go away and we don't see any indictments at all? What do you think?
- [32:07]
D
No. So, full disclosure, I know that there's a docu series about this case. I haven't seen the docu series. But I will say this. If this man portends to be a man of the cloth, the only cloth that he should be wearing is an orange jumpsuit. If any of these allegations are true. Come on. How can you be a quote unquote church leader worth millions and millions and millions of dollars? Bilking people out of millions and millions of dollars.
- [32:33]
B
Let me just interrupt. That's Robert Shinn. He's the pastor of the Shakina Church and he was detained. No charges yet. Innocent until proven guilty. Continue, John. And again, I think he's what, about 15 million, this pastor?
- [32:49]
D
Yeah, he's worth about 15 million. When all these agencies descend on your property with search warrants, it's not going to end in your favor, I guarantee you that. So can we expect charges? You betcha.
- [33:03]
B
All right, so the Netflix documentary was Dancing for the Devil, which I saw. Did you guys catch that?
- [33:09]
A
I didn't see that, but I read the. There was an article recently, LA Mag, Michelle McV, I think, wrote it, which was fascinating, which, to John's point, made me want to go watch the docu series, actually.
- [33:20]
B
Yeah, a lot of people were harmed. There's one former church member. It's sought number four let's hear from that church member and get her thoughts.
- [33:30]
F
I want to talk about the raid that happened this morning. Robert and his cult, the 7M tick tock call or whatever cult that he goes by today had.
- [33:43]
B
They.
- [33:44]
F
They're officially under investigation, federal investigation. But this is great news. This has been a long time coming. I think justice will finally be served. We're really excited to see how this pans out. We also want to thank the government agencies for finally taking steps and investigating this evil man. This is the beginning of a healing journey for a lot of us.
- [34:07]
B
Yeah. He started this church in 1994, primarily served as a house of worship, primarily for Koreans. And then apparently he opened up his doors. He was the owner of 7M Management Company. And that's where, you know, he was managing these TikTok dancers. They were working crazy hours for him. Allegedly. Again, I watched the documentary. If that's accurate, this guy wasn't a nice fella. My question to you, Mark, is we're seeing more and more Netflix influencing the prosecution, or in the case of your Menendez brothers, helping out some defendants. What are your thoughts on the role that Netflix and other of these documentaries play in the criminal justice arena?
- [34:51]
A
So it's a fascinating question because if you remember years ago, Making a Murderer was one of the first.
- [35:00]
D
Loved it.
- [35:00]
A
Some traction.
- [35:01]
B
Excellent show.
- [35:02]
A
Yeah, serial got some traction. And, you know, before there was the Menendez Netflix show, you know, there was. There. We were getting some traction legally, but obviously it took it to a whole new level. I have quoted Leslie Abramson, who tried the Menendez Brothers cases, trials one and two, and Leslie was quoted about six or maybe 10 years ago saying, no amount of tiktokers is ever going to free the. The brothers. And I think after they got resentenced and the life without was dropped, I. I left her a message. I haven't talked to her yet and said, you know, it's a different era, Leslie. And it's true. I mean, there is. You'd be naive to think that public perception and public kind of sunlight or transparency doesn't have an effect.
- [35:53]
B
As an aside, this might just be a personal question. I've been daydreaming about this. What does life look like for them? Do they give speeches? Do they go work at a car wash? What do they do for a living when they get out?
- [36:05]
A
Look, both of them have done enormously good work. Both have graduated. I attended Lyle's graduation from UC Early Irvine, that program. Lyle is doing this green space work which is transitional for inmates. Eric has, has started a hospice program.
- [36:24]
B
So they're not going to have a.
- [36:24]
A
Problem finding work problem whatsoever. I mean they've, they've started really, really effective and life changing programs while in there.
- [36:32]
B
Okay, great. So we're going to talk next. Gary Busey, he pled guilty to something. We're going to talk about that and also everything you want to know about the Donna Adelson trial. We're going to tee that up. We'll be back in just a moment. Stick around.
- [36:48]
C
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- [37:45]
B
All right, so we're back and during the break, Mark Garagos confided in us something and I said you gotta tell us all. This is the first episode ever Mark Garagos. So I don't care if you want to tell us you had some scoop on the Menendez's, you got some text out with it right now. Garagos and Garagos, let's go.
- [38:05]
A
I'm now going to give you a lesson on confidentiality.
- [38:09]
B
I don't care. This is.
- [38:13]
A
Jonna. Would you please send over the joint vet the joint defense agreement on this?
- [38:18]
B
It'll be between us. Come on.
- [38:20]
D
DocuSign.
- [38:22]
A
I will just say I got a text and I'm not worried about their future. I'll leave it at that.
- [38:26]
B
No, that's. You're not going to leave it at that. What does that mean by the way? The lottery.
- [38:30]
A
By the way, would you fill me in about Donna Adelson? I've been wondering.
- [38:35]
B
Oh my goodness. You're gonna tell us after what you didn't tell us here. Anyway, next, next episode, everybody tune in And Garagos will tell you. All right, so Edelson, okay, it's been 11 years since Dan Markell was murdered. This is the law professor from Florida State University. Bitter Custody battle, 2014, murder for hire. There've been a number of people already convicted, including Charlie Edelson, the son of Donna, who is the matriarch of the family. And she's got a trial coming up. August 8th is the pretrial hearing and it's supposed to start August 19th with jury selection. Okay, I want to kick this issue around with you guys cuz it came up in the O.J. case when he was fleeing and whether that should come in because when somebody flees or attempts to flee, it shows consciousness of guilt, prosecutors always argue. In this case, I want to show first what we're talking about. We've got Donna Adelson at the airport. She was arrested with her husband. They bought a one way ticket. There it is, a one way ticket to Vietnam. Vietnam. Okay folks, what's significant about Vietnam? Jona, you're about to tell us. Yeah. Issues with extradition.
- [39:55]
D
Right, right. So they have no extradition treaty with the United States. But let me just say something. If this prosecutor wants to win this case.
- [40:05]
B
Yes.
- [40:05]
D
All they need to do is put some women about my age who know a little bit about luxury and who know a little bit about how to treat themselves. Because if I want to go and get some R and R, the last place I'm thinking about is Vietnam goes somewhere where I can put my toes in the sand, drink my margaritas, get my nails. It doesn't sound like Vietnam to me. So that is a lie.
- [40:31]
B
Yeah. Really. And the one way ticket, what does that do for you? Yeah, I mean, there was an argument. She said. Wait, did you hear this argument, Mark? Apparently she knew that at some point they may want her to surrender, so they were then going to buy a ticket back. When that time came, they weren't fleeing to Vietnam first. Are you buying it, Mark? And secondly, do you think this goes to consciousness of guilt and they should let it into evidence in her trial?
- [41:01]
A
Well, look, I'm not so sure, mind you. Diddy flew to New York in expectation without the prosecutor saying that he was going to be arrested. And that didn't help him when it came to bail. And by the way, if you go to Vietnam when you haven't been charged yet, thinking that you're going to be charged and you're going to be able to negotiate the terms of your surrender, there's nothing illegal about that. If she went Knowing and that she had had a warrant out for her, then you got a hell of an argument. But if she went thinking, hey, you know, all the suspicions on me, I didn't do anything. I'm going to negotiate the terms of my surrender. That's not consciousness.
- [41:48]
B
That's Mark. I'm only smiling because I don't know that I've ever, in the years that I've watched you take a prosecution role. So I'm going to ask you to make me know. Stop it. You're going to do it or you're going to reveal that Menendez text. Either one. But I think this is safer for you. Please take on the role of the prosecutor and tell us why, what you would argue as the prosecutor as to why this should come in and why it's consciousness of guilt.
- [42:13]
A
I can, I can hear the pro. I can hear the prosecutor making the argument. I mean, it's easy for me to channel what I've heard a thousand times. Oh, he knew. Oh, they're going to Vietnam. Oh, they've got no extradition treaty. Oh, my God. She, we were closing in on her. There was a subpoena of her bank accounts and she knew all our hell was going to break loose. Blah, blah, blah.
- [42:37]
B
The problem is you can't do with a straight face. You're so mocking. You cannot.
- [42:42]
A
It's usually a government lawyer missing all of the dots, and I can't buy into it.
- [42:49]
B
All right, so what, what, what, what are the strongest parts of this case for the government, Johnna? What are the challenges the defense faces? What do you think?
- [42:59]
D
I think all of the communication between her and her son who was dutifully convicted, along with his co conspirators. I think the fact that you have a. This is an old case, relatively speaking. Right. You've got the whole incentive argument, not that that's an element of everything. But why did this happen? This happened because the one person who has not been charged, ladies and gentlemen, who, how she's escaping that is beyond me, is Wendy, who is the mother of the children. After the divorce from Markle, the victim, she wanted to move her kids far away, like, I think down to your neck of the woods in Florida. Mark. And the husband said, Dan Markle said, no, no, no, not so fast. You're not going to do it. And then at that point, the family, the, you know, the uncle, the grandmother, hatched this plan allegedly to get rid of Dan Markle so that the kids can move to Southern Florida. Now, how Wendy's not directly a part of Any of these conversations.
- [43:59]
B
I'm wondering, too.
- [44:00]
D
You got me.
- [44:00]
B
She's good.
- [44:01]
D
She's good. I guess so. But the grandmother was involved in this. Inextricably.
- [44:06]
A
I was going to ask Johnna if she heard this rumor that Donna had been offered a deal to roll.
- [44:11]
B
I just heard that.
- [44:12]
A
Yeah.
- [44:13]
B
Someone came out today. No idea if it's true. I mean, who knows? I might be repeating.
- [44:17]
D
To roll on Wendy.
- [44:19]
B
Yes. That they would give her full immunity, which I doubt, but full immunity? Just testify against Wendy, and apparently she turned it down. No idea if that's garbage. And I might now be, you know.
- [44:28]
A
Passing around drinking in conspiracy.
- [44:31]
B
I think I heard it on TikTok, so who knows how valuable that is while dancing.
- [44:35]
A
Yes, I know.
- [44:35]
B
So let's talk about Gary Busey. As much as you don't want to. Mark.
- [44:39]
A
I said I'll go back and revisit the Texas island. Eric, before I want to talk, but.
- [44:45]
B
This is big news.
- [44:47]
A
Tell you something about Gary Busey. Gary Busey. At one time, I. I thought was just. Was just the. What would be an expression? A list. Cat's meow.
- [45:00]
B
At some point. He did some good work.
- [45:02]
A
Yeah, did great work.
- [45:03]
B
I mean, no matter what you say.
- [45:05]
A
About him, great work. And I just. I. I hate trafficking in watching this at this point.
- [45:11]
B
Okay, well, the facts are why we're.
- [45:14]
A
Here to talk about this.
- [45:15]
B
Well, some people have to talk about it. Apparently, he pled guilty to a fourth degree criminal sexual contact stemming from an incident at a horror convention in New Jersey in 2022. Let's go to SOT 7. Apparently, he had some problems in court, which is no surprise to anybody. Let's listen to that clip as part of the.
- [45:38]
G
Okay, counsel, those terms as stated. Mr. Zill. Swillman. Is that correct? No. Now, Mr. Boosie, we in a courtroom, although we are Zoom. You can't eat a drink in my courtroom, although we are on Zoom. You're before a judge, and when you're before a judge, you act accordingly. No eating and no drinking in my presence. You understand, sir?
- [46:02]
A
Yes, ma'.
- [46:02]
B
Am.
- [46:03]
A
Thank you, Judge.
- [46:06]
B
Garagos. I'm sure your clients never do that, right?
- [46:08]
A
I do it myself. How many? I'm old enough to remember when there was Judge Fitz in Santa Monica who had a refrigerator, and he would pop beers underneath his sitting on the bench and smoke cigarettes. So I don't the. No eating, no drinking. I'm not buying.
- [46:27]
B
All right, well, he was apparently wishy washy on whether he touched a woman's butt. Apparently. Let's go to Sat 8. See what he has to say.
- [46:37]
A
Touching of the buttocks was done for your gratification. I was looking.
- [46:42]
B
My eyes were on the caverns.
- [46:45]
A
I moved my hands up and grazed her buttocks without thinking and without looking.
- [46:53]
G
That's not a factual basis. That's not a guilty plea.
- [46:57]
B
What?
- [46:58]
A
Mr. Boosie, I've advised you, and we agreed earlier, that in order to plead guilty, you have to truthfully acknowledge. I truthfully acknowledge that you did this for your own gratification as opposed to any request by ad. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Thank you, judge.
- [47:23]
G
So this was not an accidental touching. You purposely touched her, Is that correct, sir?
- [47:28]
A
Yeah.
- [47:29]
G
Okay. You did it for your own self gratification, Is that correct, sir?
- [47:33]
B
Yes. Oh my. Yeah. We never run into those challenges with our clients, getting them to say they did it. Anyway, guys, you've been wonderful. This has been great. I've loved spending time with you. Our first ever Megyn Kelly true crime podcast. Mark Garagos, Jonas Spilber, thank you so much. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it.
- [47:57]
D
This is a great time.
- [47:58]
B
All right, and remember, remember to like and subscribe on YouTube. We are growing this podcast. We're going to be back in different forms. We'll add Arthur, we're going to add other folks. It's going to be great. We are on all the social media platforms and it's everything that you need to follow us. Just hit those buttons. We'll see you Friday. I hope you all choose to have a wonderful day. Take care.
- [48:31]
H
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