Diddy’s Bad Behavior in Jail, Boyfriend Beheading Trial, Mom Impregnated by Teen Daughter's Date

Summary

MK True Crime – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Diddy’s Bad Behavior in Jail, Boyfriend Beheading Trial, Mom Impregnated by Teen Daughter's Date
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Ashley Merchant
Panelists: Jona Spielberg and Mark Eiglarsch

Episode Overview

This episode dives into several jaw-dropping legal cases currently making headlines:

• Sean "Diddy" Combs' post-sentencing antics behind bars,
• A wild Nevada trial centering on the beheading of a boyfriend – with a messy family tangle and a former adult star on the stand, and
• The shocking story of a mother in Illinois who had a baby with her teenage daughter's 14-year-old friend.

The hosts, a panel of seasoned criminal defense attorneys, mix legal analysis, personal anecdotes, and dark humor as they dissect the facts, the justice system, and what's at stake for those involved.

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1. Diddy’s Prison Behavior and Mounting Legal Troubles

[01:27 - 13:13]

Key Discussion Points:

• Diddy's Sentence & Current Status

  • Diddy is serving over four years for interstate prostitution, with a release date set for May 2028. There’s speculation about an early pardon, but he’s not helping his case with alleged infractions.
  • Ashley Merchant: “He is living the life that I personally want from my clients… you want humane conditions…But he’s got a prestigious work assignment. He is a chaplain’s assistant… he gets air conditioning, extra food, he can socialize more than the average prisoner.” [02:54]

• Behavioral Violations

  • Rumors claim Diddy was caught making “pruno” (prison wine), though his family denies this.
  • He got in trouble for a three-way phone call, which contravenes prison rules—leading to a 90-day loss of privileges.
  • Jona Spielberg: “The year was 1986…my father came in… ‘You are grounded until the leaves come back on the trees.’ …If I can do it…Diddy can do it behind bars.” [07:32]
  • Panelists discuss whether phone call rules are about safety or asserting institutional control, with some skepticism about Diddy's “ignorance” of the regulations.

• Celebrity Justice

  • The hosts debate if the punishment is excessive or fair, with concern for high-profile inmates being made examples of.
  • Ashley Merchant (on Diddy’s claim of not knowing phone rules): “…It’s kind of unbelievable that a billionaire music mogul doesn’t know that prison calls are restricted…” [09:24]

• New Civil Lawsuit

  • An additional civil suit is highlighted: producer Jonathan Hay accuses Diddy of sexual assault during music collaborations.
  • Jona Spielberg questions motives: “Everyone you’ve ever met or ever lubed up or partied with is going to come out of the woodwork…They create a fund and you sign up and then you get a check…targets people with money and that’s not fair.” [11:04]
  • Mark Eiglarsch counters: “He also could have been one of his many victims. …He did report this to law enforcement… That’s always questionable when these people just go running right to civil lawyers.” [12:00]

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2. The ‘Boyfriend Beheading’ Nevada Trial

[14:36 - 28:54]

Key Discussion Points:

• Who is Devin Michaels?

  • Former adult film star (aliases: Nikki Fairchild, Tracy Travar) on trial for allegedly murdering and decapitating her ex-boyfriend, Jonathan Willett.
  • The family tree is a soap opera: she had two kids with the victim but is married to his son, Devier—her former stepson.
  • Ashley summarizing the tangled relationships: “Devin has said… she married Devier out of convenience for insurance… At other times that they started dating and had a wonderful relationship… [Now] she was dating Jonathan Devere’s dad while she was having an affair with Devier. …Just gives me the hebies.” [15:42]

• Events Leading Up to the Murder

  • Willett was moving into the home with Michaels and Devier. Prosecutors allege Michaels killed Willett to preserve her home life.
  • Michaels confessed to striking Willett with a club during a massage but denied the decapitation, which remains unsolved as the head remains missing.

• Legal Maneuvering: Plea vs. Trial

  • Michaels pled guilty to second-degree murder but professed innocence at sentencing, prompting the judge to reject the plea and proceed to trial.
  • Memorable courtroom moment:
    • Devin Michaels in court: “I am so sorry, but I didn’t do this… I don’t know how to fix any of this anymore. I don’t.” [17:28]
    • Mark Eiglarsch’s legal advice: “Be careful what you wish for, because now she’s going to go to trial. …With all the evidence that they have, she’s going to wish that she took that 15 years.” [18:52]

• Trial Evidence & Testimony

  • Ashley Merchant: “They have her admission of hitting him over the head…then what, aliens came in and chopped his head off? …She’s going to wish that she took that deal.”
  • Defense argued her physical stature made the alleged power-saw decapitation impossible, countered by forensic testimony that a mechanical saw makes that irrelevant.
  • Forensic expert (paraphrased): “Mechanically powered saws do the work for you…So the energy transfer is coming from the saw…” [27:17]

• Is Devier (the husband/stepson) also guilty?

  • He testified, denying involvement and describing the strange family circumstances.
  • Jona Spielberg: “Guilty as hell.” [28:33]
  • Mark Eiglarsch: “It almost doesn’t matter because she’s the only one on trial. And even if the theory is they both did it, she played a role, she’s guilty…” [28:35]

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3. Susan Lawrence: Netflix Doc Subject Still Causing Trouble

[31:07 - 34:48]

Key Discussion Points:

• Background:

  • Lawrence, the subject of “The Perfect Neighborhood,” is serving a long sentence for murdering a neighbor but cannot stop harassing the victim’s family—even from jail.
  • She’s countersuing for “slander, defamation, and libel.”

• Notable Moment:

  • Susan Lawrence, from jail: “We all have bad days. Just get over it and move on… I wouldn’t want somebody to retain anger against me…We all have bad days.” [32:17]
  • Jona Spielberg’s reaction: “When I have a bad day, maybe it’s because my tire went flat—I didn’t off somebody…Don’t talk to me about bad days and act like…it was just another Tuesday when I killed your mother. It’s very offensive to me.” [33:10]

• Civil Suit Against Lawrence & Property Owner

  • Panel examines if there’s any point in suing someone in prison, ultimately noting it’s about holding the property owner (with deeper pockets) accountable for foreseeable danger.

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4. Illinois Mom Impregnated by Teen’s Friend

[36:17 - 41:48]

Key Discussion Points:

• Overview:

  • Robin Polston, 43, chaperoned her daughter’s junior high dance and subsequently slept with her daughter’s 14-year-old date, resulting in pregnancy—a case confirmed by DNA.
  • She now faces incarceration and charges for criminal sexual assault and two counts of child pornography.
  • Legal banter ensues:
    • Mark Eiglarsch (recurring): “Objection. Gross. Is that a legal objection?” [36:42]
    • Ashley Merchant: “Everything about this is gross.” [36:47]
    • Mark Eiglarsch: “No, this is one where you…put on knee pads and you beg the prosecutor for a reasonable outcome. It’s mitigation. Please.” [38:31]

• Can a Woman Face the Same Penalties as a Man?

  • The hosts discuss whether punishment should be equal regardless of gender:
    • Ashley Merchant: “It always bothers me when a man can be charged with rape and a woman can’t…I think all of our laws … tend to be a little bit paternalistic.”
    • Jona Spielberg: “Should this woman get the same penalty as a man? I say yes…Ask the mother of this young boy, because we don’t know yet ten years down the road…what happens because of this instance.” [41:00]

• Social and Family Fallout:

  • The devastation to the daughter, having her mother sleep with her date, and the subsequent media firestorm.

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5. Listener Q&A: Elder Law and Cognitive Decline

[44:39 - 46:47]

• Listener asks about whether to hire an elder law attorney for a family member with cognitive impairment.
  • Jona Spielberg: “It might be a little premature…At the beginning phases…try to look for treatment or long-term care…another alternative might be to apply for guardianship over this person…” [45:00]
  • Ashley Merchant: “There’s no harm in [consulting a lawyer]…You can get some answers, you can open a line of communication…” [46:15]

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6. Closing Arguments

[46:53 - End]

• Mark Eiglarsch – The Power of Action

  • “There is a huge difference between saying you’re going to do something and actually doing it…We wind up ‘shoulding’ all over ourselves. The shift happens when we say ‘I must’…” [46:53]

• Jona Spielberg – Why Kim Kardashian Shouldn’t Be a Lawyer

  • Humorous, impassioned rant questioning the legitimacy of Kim K’s journey through the law, contrasting celebrity shortcuts with the grind and dedication actual lawyers endure.
  • “Our profession is not a vanity project…It takes real grit, long hours, unwashed ponytails…the fortitude to kick ass during cross exam even when you gotta pee real bad…” [48:46]
  • “You did a great job for Alice Marie Johnson…Why not just do more of that, and while you’re at it, change the name of your underwear line to Legal Bikini Briefs or ‘Hung Like a Jury Jock Strap Collection’…” [52:09]

• Ashley Merchant – The Alford Plea

  • Brief explainer on the legal mechanism allowing defendants to plead guilty while maintaining their innocence (“Alford plea”), inspired by the earlier beheading trial analysis.
  • Highlights its role in cases where clients dispute the facts but want to avoid trial risks.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jona Spielberg [03:52], on Diddy: “I do think Diddy is a dirtbag. With that said, I actually believe that…the length of his sentence, you guys, is a little excessive, for starters.”
• Ashley Merchant [05:07], on jail food: “Why is every jail in this country, Mark, is baloney sandwiches? Yes. Is that what it is in Miam? They don’t get like Cuban sandwiches?”
• Mark Eiglarsch [13:00], on civil lawsuits: “Jona may be 100% right. She also may be completely wrong … She has no firsthand knowledge.”
• Ashley Merchant [21:20], prosecution’s “great evidence” joke: “He had, of course, one of the greatest pieces of evidence ever. Her head.”
  Jona Spielberg: “Oh no, sorry.”
  (Laughter, then clarification that the key is the confession)
• Ashley Merchant [36:42], on Illinois case: “Objection. Gross. Is that a legal objection?”
  Mark Eiglarsch: “…Just note my ongoing objection so I don’t interrupt. It’s an ongoing gross objection.”
• Jona Spielberg [41:00]: “You are a broken person if you find children sexually interesting in any way, you are broke.”

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Diddy in Jail & Call Controversy: 01:27 – 13:13
• Beheading Trial & Plea Drama: 14:36 – 28:54
• ‘Perfect Neighborhood’ Case/Countersuit: 31:07 – 34:48
• Mom/Teen Pregnancy Case: 36:17 – 41:48
• Listener Mailbag on Elder Law: 44:39 – 46:47
• Closing Arguments: 46:53 – End

---

Tone & Style

The panel’s tone is sharp, witty, and often irreverent—even when describing deeply disturbing crimes. They balance moments of levity with clear-eyed legal analysis and compassion for victims, sometimes veering into dark humor but always returning to the gravity of the criminal justice subjects at hand.

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For more jaw-dropping analysis and true crime debate, tune into future episodes of MK True Crime.

Transcript

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[Mark Einklarsch]

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[Ashley Merchant]

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[Ashley Merchant]

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[Jona Spielberg]

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[Ashley Merchant]

[e-mail] Carnival is calling ships registry Bahamas in Panama. Welcome to MK True Crime. I'm Ashley Merchant, your host today. I'm a criminal defense attorney out of Atlanta, Georgia. Here's what's on the docket today. It's been just over a month since Diddy was sentenced and he's already breaking the rules in jail. We'll bring you the latest. An adult film star who's married to her stepson is on trial for beheading murder of her former boyfriend. There's a lot to unpack there. We'll bring you this wild case out of Nevada. A 43 year old woman who had a baby with her daughter's teen friend was arrested last week on criminal assault charges. Criminal sexual assault charges will bring you this disturbing story and more. I'm joined today by fellow MK True Crime contributors Janice Spielberg, who's a criminal defense attorney and founding attorney at Johnna Spielbore Law, and Mark Eiglarsch, who's also a criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor and an author who you can [e-mail] we start today with Diddy's life in prison. Diddy was sentenced to over four years in prison for two counts of interstate prostitution. His release date is slated for May of 2028, but he's hoping to get out early, either by a presidential pardon or through his own good behavior. The presidential pardon option looks a little bit more promising at this point because Diddy is arguing already breaking the rules in prison. All right, so let's talk a little bit about Diddy and his prison conditions. He is living the life that I personally want from my clients. If they have their liberty taken away, we don't ever want that for our clients. But if it happens, you want humane conditions, you want nice conditions, you want decent conditions. You know, it's turned a little bit salacious that he's not being tortured behind bars, but he's got a little bit of a prestigious work assignment. He is a chaplain's assistant. And what does that mean? That means he's got a clean office. That means he gets air conditioning, gets extra food. He can socialize more than the average prisoner. So we think this is prestigious and comfy. But let's be real. Is it so extraordinary to expect a clean space, air conditioning, socialization, things like that? Is this really prestigious? I wonder. I know, Johnny, you are not a big fan of Diddy and his case, which I understand without a doubt. But, you know, what gives here if you have no love lost for Diddy? Doesn't it seem like he is getting treated like every human being should be treated in jail?

[Jona Spielberg]

Well, I have gone on record as saying numerous times that I do think Diddy is a dirtbag. With that said, I actually believe that his. The length of his sentence, you guys, is a little excessive, for starters. But as far as prison goes, I mean, you know, some of these prisons are a little bit better than others. And from what I understand and from what I know, you know, the one thing Diddy doesn't have is. Is pruno. Do you guys know what pruno is?

[Ashley Merchant]

I'm not. I. I don't even want to guess what pruno is, Jonna.

[Jona Spielberg]

Okay, so I'll tell you. Pruno is how prisoners make booze in jail. They get prunes, they get something else. They fermented, and then click, click, click. And that's how they have a little fun, little cocktail party behind bars. And apparently one of the rumors, and it is just a rumor, according to Diddy's family, you know, he didn't have access to nobody, made his own libation behind bars and got himself In a little bit of trouble, despite his cushy job and his extra food, by the way. Extra food, you guys, we've all stepped foot in jail cells to talk to clients. The smell alone of stale milk and old bologna sandwiches is enough to make you gag.

[Ashley Merchant]

Why is it baloney sandwiches? I've always wondered that. Why is every jail in this country, Mark, is baloney sandwiches? Yes. Is that what it is in Miam? I mean, they don't get like, you know, Cuban sandwiches.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Oh, yeah, sure. They make paella every day. And then we have sangria and we dance in salsa. Listen, you got to check off the boxes. Just barely, you know, does it meet some requirement? Yes, I'm sure it does. I'm going to take a different position and I'm going to start the analysis with did Diddy really do it? And by that I mean, did he really get caught making this stuff? Was he really in possession of possession of it? That's what we're hearing. His team said that absolutely didn't happen. And if you're going to start manufacturing stuff, it's usually with people like this, famous people to make headlines for clicks. I don't know that he really did it.

[Ashley Merchant]

I'm with you, honestly. And, you know, the phone call gives me a little bit of pause, too. He got in trouble for a phone call. So get this. So Diddy is allowed to make calls, but apparently he's not allowed to make three way calls. He can make two way calls, but he can't make three way calls. Sorry, I don't know if that. That joke landed at all, pun intended. But he got in trouble. So he gets in trouble for making this three way call, but he says it's to his legal team. But the prison rules are strict. They say no three ways, only two ways and only two ways with approved people. Diddy says he didn't know these rules. He was recommended to lose his phone privileges for 90 days and lose commissary for 90 days, which is a big deal. I mean, commissary, that's where you get honey buns. That's where you get all your good stuff. You know, lose that for 90 days. The prison is saying that these rules are there for safety. They're saying that the three ways are banned because of concerns that inmates could use them to coordinate criminal activity.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Ash, I have a question. Yeah. Are they alleging during the three way that he used Eddie Lube? I just want to know.

[Jona Spielberg]

When you said you have a question.

[Ashley Merchant]

I was like, you knew it.

[Mark Einklarsch]

I'm so obvious.

[Jona Spielberg]

What took you so long?

[Mark Einklarsch]

I didn't want to interrupt her. And then I said, I'm going to interrupt her.

[Ashley Merchant]

You know, I mean, after I said three way, five times, I figured Luke was coming into it, but I'm just.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Saying, okay, go ahead.

[Ashley Merchant]

For some reason that was just made for this case, but, but, you know, think about it. And I'll tell you honestly, I hate these prison regulations with the phone calls because I like to be able to pick up my phone and call my client and talk to them. So these things drive me crazy. And, you know, 90 days, it seems kind of a lot. So is this really about safety or is this about reminding powerful people that they're not in control anymore? What do you think, Jona?

[Jona Spielberg]

Here's what I think. The year was 1986, something. And I, as a teenager, got myself in a little bit of trouble. And I was sitting in my bedroom. My father came in. It was right around September, and he said, you are grounded until the leaves come back on the trees. That's a lot longer than 90 days when you're talking September. I did it standing on my head. So if I can do it standing on my head, Diddy can do it behind bars. Look, it hap you do something wrong, you, you're in a place like that where you do not have your freedom. Just like a teenager. You have zero fourth amendment rights. You have zero constitutional rights. You gotta play by the rules. And even in a case like that, you could get, maybe you're innocent and you were playing by the rules, but they think you weren't, boom, you're going down. So I don't have much sympathy in this case for Dick.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Well, that's a little harsh. You know, 90 days, this I can believe he did. Because you forget or you, you add another person to the call because you've got, you know, lots of business to conduct, or you also just forget. So 90 days, because you added someone to the call, which inherently isn't a problem, except, oh yeah, historically the mob from federal prison has run their organization. And so they make this rule that has nothing to do with Diddy and he gets landed in the hole, metaphorically, for 90 days. I think it's a bit much.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, I mean, I agree. And what really, Mark, is the harm for having a three way call with counsel? I mean, is this really a security risk or is the person just trying to control them?

[Mark Einklarsch]

Right. I think it's, it's, it's more because there's a policy and you violated the policy. We need to set the tone here.

[Ashley Merchant]

Oh, yeah, I think they're definitely trying to just make an example out of.

[Jona Spielberg]

Him because he's famous too, you guys. They don't. They're going to go overboard because they don't want to see it seem like they're giving him special treatment.

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, yeah, definitely. And I mean, also his excuses that he didn't get the book or he didn't know the rules. I think it's kind of unbelievable that a billionaire music mogul doesn't know that prison calls are restricted, that they're monitored. That just. That seems a little crazy to me. So I think that probably didn't carry a whole lot of weight with the prison officials. But I want to talk about a very interesting case, actually. Before we do that, I want to finish up on Diddy. He's got another lawsuit. So I read somewhere that he has got 70 different civil lawsuits. And there is yet another one joining this, a Largo music producer. His name is Jonathan Hay. He's a longtime music producer. He's been doing this for three decades. He's had a professional relationship with Diddy since 2020. So he has now joined of civil lawsuits against Diddy. He says in his lawsuit that he was working with Diddy on a remix project where they were remixing some notorious big music, trying to get it into the house and techno tracks. And he traveled to LA for a promo photo shoot. And while there, he says that his first assault happened and Diddy apparently exposed himself in front of him without consent. I don't really understand that one. But the second one is the one that's really the juice of this, of this lawsuit. In 2021, he said he traveled back out to LA, and that time he thinks it was a setup. He says he was physically assaulted. His head was covered, and he was taken to another location where Diddy assaulted him. Now, Diddy's legal team has come out and said Mr. Combs will not back down. He will fight as long as necessary to win his full vindication. This gentleman who brought this suit said that he decided to come forward with hopes to empower other people to speak up, empower other victims. So, Jona, is this a genuine attempt, you think, at accountability, or do you think this is a calculated move by this person who's filing this lawsuit?

[Jona Spielberg]

Yeah, I tend to get a lot of hate mail because my position on these cases is this is the same, Diddy included. Look, this guy filed his lawsuit in July. Oh, what else happened in July this year, you guys? Oh, that's right. Diddy's criminal trial ended and he was acquitted of the top counts. But look, people pile on when you are a deep pocket celebrity defendant with these kind of criminal allegations. Everyone you've ever met or ever lubed up or partied with is going to come out of the woodwork. They're going to find a lawyer to go, yeah, I'll draft a complaint and say that you didn't know, that didn't cause that, blah, blah. I don't buy it for a minute. But as a practical matter, a lot of these suits, like they, they create a fund and you sign up and then. And you get a check. And I don't believe in that at all. I think it's terrible. It targets people with money and that's not fair. And I don't know if did he how he's going to handle it, but you know, he's probably going to end up writing some checks.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Jona may be 100% right. She also may be completely wrong on that. She has no firsthand knowledge. Yeah, let's go to the other side. The guy could be doing a money grab, but he also could have been one of his many victims. And I don't know, to his credit, and you know, Jonah ignored this point. To his credit, the guy did report this to law enforcement. You know, it's always questionable when these people just go running right to the civil lawyers to try to get money. But this guy was willing to meet with the most vicious of interrogators, police officers, and open himself up to them and answer any and all questions and cooperate. I don't know what the evidence is, but it doesn't mean solely because he's yet another victim and the timing is suspect that he wasn't a true victim. Jonna and anyone listening?

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, it sounds like. So it sounds like Mark thinks this is courage and Jonna thinks it may be strategy.

[Mark Einklarsch]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Ashley Merchant]

Strategy line. But we just don't know. We'll have to see. We'll have to see. But there's 70 lawsuits, so I'm guessing this is not the last one we're gonna hear. Just a guess. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Commercial Insurance. Business owners, meet Progressive Insurance.

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[Ashley Merchant]

I want to talk a little bit about another case. I'm actually going to talk a lot about it. This is one of the craziest cases I think I have ever heard. It's a case out of Nevada. This lady named Devin Michaels is. Let me just tell you, you may need a notebook for this to keep up with.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Is that her only name?

[Ashley Merchant]

That is not her only name. So she is a former adult TV star. She is on trial for murder. She's also gone by Nikki Fairchild and Tracy Travar. I think it's how you say it, Travar. So get this though. She is charged with bludgeoning and decapitating her boyfriend. Her ex boyfriend, I'm sorry, as he prepared to move into her Vegas home. But that's not where the craziness ends. So Jonathan Willett, that's her ex boyfriend, that is who she is charged with killing. He's trying to move into her home. She has two kids, two daughters with this guy Jonathan. Okay, so you've got Devin and Jonathan. They got two kids, two daughters. She is married though, to Devier de Vier. Her husband is also Jonathan's son. So I think that means he's stepdad and uncle. Just gives me the hebies.

[Jona Spielberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Merchant]

Now gross. So Devier is Jonathan's son from another mother. Basically. Devin has said that at times that she married Devier out of convenience for insurance. At other times that they started dating and had a wonderful relationship. So we don't really know, but what we do know is that they were carrying on an affair. For years, she was dating Jonathan Devere's dad while she was having an affair with Devere. All right, so now that we've got our scorecards a little bit straight, let's talk about what's happening. So Jonathan is moving into their home to de and Devin's home. Prosecutors gave their opening statements, and they said that Devin killed Jonathan because she was unhappy that he was moving in with her and her lovely husband and children. She thought it was going to disrupt this fabulous home life that they had created, this wonderful, functional home life with, you know, stepdad and uncle. She confessed. She confessed to clubbing Jonathan over the head while he was lying on his stomach getting a massage. And I can't wait for this trial to talk about who's giving him a massage and what's happening. So she's giving him a massage when she clubs him over the head? Very suspect, but yeah. So she denied decapitating him and denied hiding his head. The police have still not been able to find his head or the murder weapon, but we know a little bit more. She's accused of taking his head from the scene and throwing it in the trash, where it was likely picked up by a trash service. But remember, they still haven't found it. So let's talk about what happened for a minute and how we got to this trial. So she pled guilty before we. Before we talk about the facts and what's happening at trial, let's talk about how she got into trial. So she pleads guilty to second degree murder. Okay. Normally you'd get a 15 year sentence with parole eligibility. Pretty good deal if you did this. But it's sentencing. She apologized, said she's innocent, and the case went to trial. So let's play SOT1, and then I want to talk about whether or not the judge could take this plea or not.

[Jona Spielberg]

I am so sorry, but I didn't do this. And I. And I didn't know this would end up like this. I really didn't. And I will forever apologize to the family that I don't know how to fix any of this anymore. I don't.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

Judge, I'm not comfortable with this record. I'm willing to let her out of her plea if the court is in trial.

[Ashley Merchant]

Just. I don't know how to fix this. It's just.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

This wouldn't be appropriate.

[Ashley Merchant]

I completely understand.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

Let's go to trial.

[Ashley Merchant]

All right, Ms. Michael Jumpstart, Mr. Giadani.

[Jona Spielberg]

Says that he's willing to let you.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Out of your plea, and he's willing.

[Ashley Merchant]

To Try this case.

[Jona Spielberg]

And you understand that he's willing to.

[Ashley Merchant]

Try this case on an open murder.

[Mark Einklarsch]

So a jury can convict you of.

[Ashley Merchant]

A first degree murder. Do you understand that or do you.

[Jona Spielberg]

Want to talk to Mr. Patrick about it?

[Ashley Merchant]

I don't want to talk to Mr. Patrick.

[Jona Spielberg]

He didn't listen to anything. Ms. Michaels, I need you to understand.

[Mark Einklarsch]

What I'm saying to you and answer my question. Do you want to withdraw your plea.

[Ashley Merchant]

And go to trial?

[Jona Spielberg]

Yes, please. All right.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Be careful what you wish for. Ex porn star. Come on now.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yes. So, Mark, can she accept responsibility and still maintain innocence? Or are those things really legally incompatible?

[Mark Einklarsch]

There's a way to do it, kind of if you work it all out, not with what she did. Everybody did the right thing. The prosecutor knew that she would then attack that plea as not freely and voluntarily done because she was not accepting responsibility. Everybody did the right thing. Be careful what you wish for, because now she's going to go to trial. They have her admission of hitting him over the head while he's getting a massage. And then what, aliens came in and chopped his head off? With all the evidence that they have, she's going to wish that she took that 15 years.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah. Now she is going to wish that, John. I mean, would the judge have been required to reject the plea once she. When she said that she was innocent? Or, I mean, could the judge have accepted it?

[Jona Spielberg]

Let me just say that I. I feel a Professor Ashley rant somewhere in the future of us. So I like this. This is a little bit of a quiz. Okay. Could the judge have accepted that plea even though her allocution was I'm innocent, I'm innocent? He probably could have.

[Ashley Merchant]

Should he have? Let's do it that way. Should he have?

[Jona Spielberg]

Should he have? That's. That's an even bigger question. So I can't really step in the judge's shoes. I can tell you as a defense attorney, if I were standing next to my client and my client had this outburst and she couldn't allocate and she was professing her innocence. And after I broke a rib by doing this.

[Ashley Merchant]

Right, right. I would have taken my shoe out and started clubbing her over the head.

[Jona Spielberg]

But after I did that, I would help interpret what I think the clerk was saying, was trying to say, hey, asshole, you don't really want to be doing what you're doing. And after all that, if she still went through it, that I'd be like, tendering my resignation because I agree with Mark. This is not going to go well for her at all at trial. And the attorney, look, the attorney. We have to worry about our reputation and getting sued for incompetence or any sort of malpractice for letting that happen. So there's a whole lot in the mix here.

[Ashley Merchant]

I'm just glad I was not in that courtroom because I would have been like you. What are you thinking? But you know, I always say a lot of times you're in a courtroom because you didn't make good decisions. So we're asking a lot when we expect people to make good decisions when they're in that courtroom. But let's talk a little bit about the trial because these are some of the most wild facts I think I've heard in a lot. Long time. So the prosecutor gave an opening and he had of course, one of the greatest pieces of evidence ever. Her head.

[Jona Spielberg]

Oh, no, sorry.

[Ashley Merchant]

Her confession. She said she bashed him. She said she didn't decapitate him, but she bashed him. So let's see if we can play sought. To that opening statement, the defendant acknowledged.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

That she realized John was actually moving in. That at the time of the murder she was giving John a massage on the bed. John was lying on his stomach, not a threat. In the midst of a massage, face down, unexpecting. And the defendant admits that she returned to the bed, bashed him over the head with that club or stick, and that John went limp. At that time, she refused to tell detectives what she did with John's head or with the weapon, that those items were never released.

[Ashley Merchant]

Recovery.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

You will learn that this is the reality of the situation before John was killed and that the defendant wanted John out of the picture. This is the future that she saw that she wanted. And the only way to have that future was with John out of the picture.

[Ashley Merchant]

So we also know in these opening statements that they had, they talked about this long affair that these all people had had, all the different people had had. And how Deere actually hated his father. But then the defense gets up and so the defense is, is great. Here they said there no evidence, no blood and that she cannot operate this power saw. Do we have SOT3?

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

You've got this complex systems. You've got the musculature, you have the veins, the arteries, you've got the trachea, you've got the vertebrae, very thick ligaments and cartilage.

[Ashley Merchant]

It takes, it takes a lot.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

Hand powered sock.

[Ashley Merchant]

Do it.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

What's interesting, you will see and it will play out. There's no blood spatter in the room. Consistent with use of power tool.

[Ashley Merchant]

Apparently.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

There'S an assumption that this decapitation occurred on the bed. I'd submit to you, when you see the evidence, it's not consistent with that. It's got a power saw going in the neck there, and you're cutting through it. You can't see stuff all over the place. They didn't find anything. Devin is 5:3 and weighs 130 pounds. Like 120.

[Mark Einklarsch]

And again.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

And this will be for the city because it's the state and the state alone that has to prove this case.

[Mark Einklarsch]

That's gonna jump in here. I have so many thoughts. Oh, my God. So many. All right, first of all, I would have immediately said to the judge, judge, just so we're clear, my client wants to go to trial. I am recommending that she takes this deal. Just so we're crystal clear, I would have said that right in front of the judge. The judge is not the finder of fact. The jurors are. They wouldn't have been there, so it wouldn't have prejudiced her in any way. That's number one I need to make clear. Second of all, unless they have David Copperfield on the team, they've got no shot. You can't make her confession disappear, so you've got that. So even if she can't operate a saw like he's claiming, even if they buy that malarkey when she admits that she bangs the guy over the head, she's done. So none of this matters to me. Plus, it's not the only evidence. The guy that they're trying to frame, like the Mona Lisa, had his phone in where he was at and he never moved, so he couldn't have done it. Plus, this woman, the accused, has all the guy's possessions wrapped up in plastic with blood on it. They've got a ton of evidence. This is a slow guilty plea. Ultimately.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, you know, it definitely is. It's definitely a difficult case to defend. But, you know, what if. I mean, they're saying that Devier is the one that really did this or someone else really did it. And so, you know, I think they've got to have Devin take the stand to try and explain that and try and explain this false confession. And they've heard from Deere testified he said he began his relationship with Devin at age 19. He admitted to lying about the relationship. He admitted he didn't get along with his father. He also confirmed that he works with tools for cutting wood and drywall. I mean, he denied killing his father, but he admitted, you know, he's got means, he's got opportunity, he has motive. So let's listen to Sat 4, which is where he denies killing his father.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

At some point prior to that, had he learned that you had actually married Nikki? Yes, sir. How was that conversation, if you had a conversation about it? He sent me a text message asking or saying, I don't know what you're.

[Ashley Merchant]

Doing, but it's not right.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

And I responded with, half of what you know is true and the other half isn't.

[Ashley Merchant]

Okay.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

So your dad clearly knew you were formally married?

[Ashley Merchant]

Yes, sir.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

Do you remember the date you got married? No, sir. Did you ever get divorced? No, sir. Is that something you would like to do after this? Yes.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Okay.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

Once this trial is dope, yes.

[Ashley Merchant]

Okay. Look.

[Courtroom Audio / Witness]

Look at me. Did you kill your father? No, sir. Did you have any involvement in killing your father? No, sir. Did you have any involvement in what happened to his body after? No, sir. Passwords?

[Ashley Merchant]

I mean, he looks believable. That better be a damn good cross examination against that kid. But I want to talk about Dr. Burns before we move on. Forensic anthropologists, who I love. I love it when they testify, they're. They're the ones that talk about bones. Essentially, when weapons go into bones, they're the ones that come and talk. And she testified that there were two tools used in this decapitation. A hand powered knife and a mechanically powered saw. And I think one of the things that really undercut the defense's opening is that this lady was able to testify that the mechanical saw actually does the work for the user. And I think we've got her testimony at saw five. I've stood next to you. You're a petite individual. Is it possible for a petite individual to have decapitated? Well, mechanically powered saws do the work for you. So the energy transfer is coming from the. The saw. So.

[Jona Spielberg]

And they're made so that many different.

[Ashley Merchant]

Types of people can use them to do, you know, whatever it is they're going to do with that saw. So many different people could use a mechanically powered saw to cut through hard materials such as wood or bone. So it wouldn't be impossible for a smaller female to do so, Correct?

[Jona Spielberg]

I don't know if I want to.

[Ashley Merchant]

Comment on that specifically, but the, the energy transfer from the mechanically powered saw makes it. So many different types of people can operate that tool.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Objection. She's a tool expert also. Wait, what?

[Jona Spielberg]

You don't need an expert for that, Mark?

[Mark Einklarsch]

No, it's helpful. But. But, but, but it hurts. It hurts the defense. Where's the objection? How is she an expert? She knows screwdrivers also. And pliers. Like, what's her expertise?

[Jona Spielberg]

You start off in voir dire and you ask anybody if they've ever chopped down a tree or seen a tree chopped down. And then you ask, did you do it with a butter knife or did you use an actual tool? You don't need an expert to figure that one out. That's a horrible piece of her defense.

[Ashley Merchant]

So what do you think? Do you guys think that this is just one of those rare cases where both are actually guilty? Maybe the boyfriend, husband and the lady, they're both guilty.

[Jona Spielberg]

Guilty as hell.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Both of them?

[Ashley Merchant]

Both.

[Mark Einklarsch]

It doesn't matter. In other words, if the government thought they had enough against him, he'd be sitting there. I don't think that the evidence pointed to that, but it almost doesn't matter because she's the only one on trial. And even if the theory is they both did it, she played a role, she's guilty. Am I missing something?

[Jona Spielberg]

No.

[Ashley Merchant]

That's the defense you're missing one of the craziest cases that we've seen. So we're going to keep paying attention to this one because it's definitely crazy. But next we've got an update on the subject of the Netflix documentary the Perfect Neighborhood. We also have a lady who had a baby with her 14 year old daughter's friend. Remember, you can email us. We love hearing from you. We love your comments, we love story suggestions. Email us at mktruecrimevilmaycaremedia.com we hope to hear from you.

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[Ashley Merchant]

Robyn Tolston chaperoned a school dance and then went to have a baby with her daughter's 14 year old date. We'll get into that bizarre story, but first we've got the story of Susan Lawrence. This is the woman who was the subject of the Netflix documentary the Perfect Neighborhood. She can't stop terrorizing her former neighbors, even from jail. So we talked about this case a couple weeks ago. Susan Lawrence is in prison. She's serving a very lengthy sentence. And now the family of the lady that she killed, she killed a mother who had some kids. And that lady's mother actually sued her, sued her while she's in jail. And she's responded in a handwritten response. She was sued by Ms. Owens family. And in the response she's countersuing for slander, defamation and libel. She did this obviously by hand because she doesn't have a lawyer. And I think we've got SOT 7 where you can actually see Lawrence say for herself that everybody has bad days. I had no animosity for this woman.

[Mark Einklarsch]

You say no animosity, but police had been called to your place numerous times before. We have the body camera video too. There's got to be some animosity.

[Ashley Merchant]

I try not to hold it against a person. You know, I've made my fair share of mistakes and I wouldn't want somebody to retain anger against me. You know, like I said, we all have bad days. Just get over it and move on. Because if you hold on to that, your life's going to be miserable. We all have bad days. Yeah. So this is one of those types of cases. The civil lawsuit that she's got now is, is really why we can't have nice things in the court system. You know, when I say that, I say we can't have an efficient legal system. What are they going to get from this lady? Are they going to get anything from suing her? She's countersuing now. She's got nothing to do. She is literally serving the rest of her life in prison. Of course she's going to countersue. Of course that's going to get her out of jail. That's going to get her paper, pens. I mean, what do you all think of this? What do you think of these lawsuits? Yeah.

[Mark Einklarsch]

You want me to go first? You? Up to you, John.

[Ashley Merchant]

You go.

[Jona Spielberg]

I mean, so they happen for exactly the reason you just said. Said Ashley. Sometimes when people are facing the rest of their lives in an 8 by 10 cement cell, they got nothing but time. So you give them, give them an opportunity to do this, to file motions on toilet paper and to complain about anything to file, they're going to do it. I feel even more sad now for the victims because they're really just pushing a rope uphill, so to speak. Right. They're not going to get anything. They're not even going to get vindication from all this. And to interview this woman in J and have her sit there like an idiot and say, we all have bad days. Well, I, when I have a bad day, maybe it's because my tire went flat, I didn't off somebody. So, you know, don't talk to me about bad days and act like it was just, just another Tuesday when I killed your mother. It's very offensive to me.

[Mark Einklarsch]

I was thinking when you were reading the introduction, like, wait, why are they even wasting their time? Like, what lawyer is going to get paid nothing to do this? And then I vaguely remembered something in the materials that I read that it's not just her that they're suing. They're suing the owner of the property. Who should have known that this could have happened. Who knows whether it's, you know, going to go anywhere. But he probably has deeper pockets and probably an insurance company somewhere behind him. That's why. And they've got to join her on there just because that's what the law says. They will get nothing from her. Her creative writing alleging, you know, slander, libel or anything she puts down is not worth anything. And this is a big nothing burger.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah. I mean, and those types of lawsuits, you know, we have them all the time. Premises, liability. Like do you maintain an apartment? That's dangerous.

[Jona Spielberg]

Do you?

[Ashley Merchant]

You know, we have some cases like that where, where we see nightclubs or apartment complexes or hotels where they know that they're running a Drug den. Or they know that they've got crazy violent people, you know, who are shooting mothers in their apartment. But you know, was it foreseeable? Did they really have knowledge of this? So I agree with you.

[Mark Einklarsch]

I make the, I can make the argument. I mean, it's worth to make the argument. And now that I think about it, after watching that documentary, the police were called repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly telling the owner essentially, bad tenant, ban tenant. Well, I didn't know. I didn't know. Well, you should have known. You got to pay attention to who's in there. And he either knew or should have known would be the argument. And it was reasonably foreseeable that this was a pressure cooker. I mean, as you're watching this documentary, you're going, okay, we know where this is headed. You know, something bad's gonna happen. So the argument is he should have known that too and maybe gotten her off of the premises.

[Ashley Merchant]

Right? You got everything safe.

[Jona Spielberg]

You gotta remember she was the one who was calling the police all the time. She wasn't having the police called on her so much as she was doing the calling. Could the landlord know that she was a nutjob, which she was, just by that. And look, I don't think the insurance company for the, for the premises is gonna pay a dime because it's not the type of case that it's. This was foreseeable. I don't think if she were, you know, Annie, get your gun. And she was shooting out of windows all the time. Different story.

[Ashley Merchant]

Or she had a criminal background or something. You know, maybe they hadn't run a background check, something like that. Yeah, those would be the factors I'd care about. Well, let's talk a little bit about another case. This one is kind of gross, honestly. Robin Polston out of Illinois. She is a 43 year old mother who was chaperoning her daughter, her 14 year old daughters junior high dance. And what did she do? She hooked up with her daughter's 14 year old friend.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Objection. Gross. Is that, is that a legal objection?

[Jona Spielberg]

It should be.

[Ashley Merchant]

It is just so gross.

[Advertiser Voice 1]

It is.

[Jona Spielberg]

Here, keep going.

[Ashley Merchant]

Everything about this is gross. I know. So she gave birth in January 2025.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Objection. Gross again.

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, here, here's the double gross. Guess what? DNA confirmed it's his double gross. That's like double hearsay. She's charged now, she's in jail. She is facing up to 15 years on criminal sexual assault, two counts of child pornography. Because apparently you want to object to Gross. Apparently there were a large number of sexually explicit Images and videos depicting alleged. The alleged victim and Polsted. And I think we've got something else, if you want to object. Gross. Do we have some maternity photos?

[Mark Einklarsch]

Just note my ongoing objection so I don't interrupt.

[Ashley Merchant]

Just.

[Mark Einklarsch]

It's an ongoing gross objection.

[Ashley Merchant]

Here's the exhibit. Exhibit Extra. Gross. Oh. Oh, stop.

[Mark Einklarsch]

No, stop. Please tell me that Jonna put that together just to make us shocked.

[Ashley Merchant]

Just please. Oh, God, no. It's so ridiculous. It's so bad. It's so bad. And I mean, I can find. I can find something to argue for defendant just about any time. And I'm like, oh, God, if you called me, this is just bad.

[Mark Einklarsch]

I was having such a good day, too. Why. Why did I need to see that?

[Jona Spielberg]

He ain't wired right.

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, you know, the defense they were trying to have was that the dad moved away. Because he did. He moved away right after this happened. Shocking. But guess when he came back to visit.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Fault. It's his fault, right?

[Ashley Merchant]

He came back to visit 40 weeks before she gave birth and then boom. DNA matches. So, yeah, I think, you know, the DNA and his age, that's kind of a strict liability crime. Kind of thinking. I don't know what, you know, can you think of any good defenses that they might have? Mark?

[Mark Einklarsch]

Oh, my God.

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, since you think this is, you know, so objectionable.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Wow, I'm actually at a loss. No, I think this is speechless. No, this is one where you. You just. You go to Dick's Sporting Goods, you put on knee pads and you beg the prosecutor for a reasonable outcome. That's it. You. That's it? That's it. That's what you do. It's mitigation. Please.

[Jona Spielberg]

Knee pads? Really?

[Mark Einklarsch]

I.

[Jona Spielberg]

Well, you got a bag.

[Ashley Merchant]

I mean, you gotta get on your nose for a proper bag.

[Mark Einklarsch]

That's what I meant. Come on, what did you think, Johnny?

[Ashley Merchant]

You're gross. Objection. Gross. Gross. I mean, how would you. How would you defend this. This mother?

[Jona Spielberg]

She's not so. She's not rap type, right? You are a broken person. If you find children sexually interesting in any way, you are broke. Have we seen it before? Sure we have. Mary Kayla Turno. The one in Florida. The pretty girl. I can't remember her name. Oh, yes, yes.

[Ashley Merchant]

Oh, we. At least once a year we've got.

[Jona Spielberg]

Cases like this all the time. You know, typically they don't get impregnated by their teenage love affair, but you are not wrapped tight, so. And I think it almost is. Is there a sympathy factor? Let's put it this way, that I Think the child's now in foster care. Right. So is she an unfit mother? Is the child part of the sympathy factor? What do you do with this case? It's just disgusting all the way around. But she.

[Mark Einklarsch]

I have a question for both of you. And I asked this when we did a segment. I won't mention who said the offensive comments, but he was bald and from New York, and the other one represented Michael Jackson. I'm not going to mention any names.

[Jona Spielberg]

All right.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Ok. And I asked whether. When a boy gets sexually violated like this, whether it's as bad emotionally as whether it happens to a girl. And they seem to suggest, well, it's not as bad. I ask you guys the same question.

[Ashley Merchant]

I personally don't like these paternalistic laws that criminalize men and don't criminalize women. So, you know, I don't like that. I don't. I think all of our laws are. Tend to be a little bit paternalistic, and I think we've gone a little bit too extreme with some of these child protection laws. I know that's not a popular view, but I can tell you a ton of stories where it's been taken a little bit extreme. But, you know, it always bothers me when a man can be charged with rape and a woman can't be charged with rape. I mean, that's not fair. And, you know, men can be just as much a victim as a woman.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Jonna, should this woman get the same penalty as a man?

[Jona Spielberg]

I say yes. I say yes. And you know who else you should really ask? The parents. Ask the mother of this young boy, because we don't know yet. Ten years down the road, Mark, when he's robbing banks or killing squirrels or whatever he's gonna do because he's all effed up because of this instance. You know, we don't know that yet, but it'll happen.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Of course. Of course.

[Ashley Merchant]

I just don't know why she couldn't wait two years, you know, And. And the thing that really gets me is she. So she has this baby, and it almost seems like she wants to. I mean, she's 43. She's got to know where babies come from. You know, she's got a kid. Like, is this an accident or did she want to have a child with him? Did she want to continue this relationship? I feel like this is a case of mitigation. You've got to dig deep because there's something going on with this, with this lady, you know, she's got her own child. I mean, I think that Even makes it harder to.

[Jona Spielberg]

And how about that? She's so nuts. What was that other movie? Oh, God. Where the mother was faking. She was texting the daughter and encouraging her to kill herself. What was that? That was just on Dumb and Dumber. No, Chip and. But think about the psychological impact on the daughter who this 14 year old was her boyfriend at prom and my mother screwed him and had a baby.

[Ashley Merchant]

I literally, when I started reading the story, I thought, oh, my God, this P.O. child whose mom chaperoned the dance. Like, that's one of those things where I'm like, hey, kids, do you want me to chaperone your dance? And they're like, oh, God, no, mom. You know? But then not only chaperone a dance, but hooked up with a kid at the dance. Oh, okay. Well, so we're moving on. We've got your comments and we've got closing arguments.

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[Ashley Merchant]

Welcome back. We'll get to our closing arguments and your mail, but first, we gotta talk about Megyn Kelly Live. We've all been to Megyn Kelly Live's tour. We all had a great time. I want to talk a little bit about it, but I want you to join Megan coast to coast as she takes the Megyn Kelly show on the road. Megan believes now more than ever, it's important to be talking about what's true, what's real, what's important have an evening with no bs, no agenda and no fear. And MK true crime. This is a really exciting announcement. Is now going to be featured on Sirius XM on the Megyn Kelly Channel. We are very excited. Yeah. So you can catch us on Sirius XM, the Megyn Kelly Channel, Tuesdays at 10am you can also check us out Saturdays at 9 and 10am so I'm going to have Mark read our legal mailbag and then Johnna and I can chat about it.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Okay, so this is from a listener who prefers to remain anonymous. The spouse of a member of our family is experiencing cognitive impairment. Should the couple engage the services of an elder care attorney? She added, we love your podcast. Really great stuff. What do you think, guys?

[Ashley Merchant]

John, I'll let you go.

[Jona Spielberg]

Okay, so cognitive impairment and elder law attorney. I'm going to say that it might be a little premature to engage an attorney in this situation, and here's why. Usually elder care attorneys are good for if there is some sort of infighting between family members and there's a family member who cannot speak up for him or herself. But at the beginning phases of cognitive impairment, really what you should be doing is trying to look for treatment or long term care facilities and do what you can to protect the interests of that person. Because like I said, that's when an attorney could be a good idea to have on panel on board because you don't want, say, a daughter or a rogue family member stealing money from this person who can't pay attention to their finances. Another alternative might be to apply for guardianship over this person so somebody else who's not suffering and who is trustworthy can take care of this person's needs for the rest of their life. So I would say little too soon for an attorney, but not a bad idea to have an elder care attorney on standby for when you do, if you do need him or her in the future.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, you know, and what I'd add to it is lawyers, we're here to serve you. We're here to answer your questions. And you know, as criminal defense lawyers, I know we all probably agree, I mean, clients come to us when they have questions and they're in their moment of need and they want some advice and some guidance. So if you're able to hire a lawyer, if you're able to pay for that consultation, there's no harm in doing that. You can get some answers, you can open a line of communication, but the most important thing is to take care of them, make sure they're getting good health care. And talking with their doctors about what's going on.

[Jona Spielberg]

Good advice.

[Ashley Merchant]

We're going to move to closing arguments. We're going to start with Mark.

[Mark Einklarsch]

Okay, so there is a huge difference between saying you're going to do something and actually doing it. Let me illustrate my point. Follow me on this one. Simple math equation. There's three frogs on a lily pad. How many? Three. Two decide to jump off. How many are left? One. Right. No. Wrong. Let me repeat it again. Three frogs on a lily pad. Two merely decided to jump off. They didn't jump off. They decided to jump off. So how many are left? Still three. Because the frogs are saying I should jump off, but I'm just gonna hang out, and I haven't done it yet. We do that. I should lose weight. I should do more community service. I should meditate. I should become more politically active. I should. I should. I should. We wind up shooting all over ourselves. The shift happens when we say I must. I must leaves no room for ambiguity. There's no wiggle room. I must meditate every day. I must keep a gratitude journal. I must be of service to my beautiful children and my wife. I must. Aristotle said, take charge of your thoughts. You can do what you will with them. And I know I must.

[Ashley Merchant]

Thank you, Mark. Jonna.

[Jona Spielberg]

Golf clap. Golf clap. All right. Okay. I'm gonna try to do this without my spectacles on. I'm also going to try real hard to not have the top of my head pop off like a champagne cork while I explain to the world in 500 words or less why Kim Kardashian should never have a license to practice law.

[Ashley Merchant]

Law.

[Jona Spielberg]

As you may know, Kim K. Reality star and accomplished businesswoman I will give her that, has been on a mission to become a lawyer without actually attending law school. An unconventional route, true, but one she did not invent. A handful of states, California among them, has an apprentice program where participants can replace law school with just a smidge of law office experience before being qualified to take the bar. Perhaps this program was born from a need to reward heroic paralegals who, through years of on the job osmosis, know as much, if not more, than the attorneys they support. I'm almost good with that. What I'm not good with is the Kim K. Do these million dollar diamond earrings make my butt look big? Your honor? Version of what it takes to be a member of my profession. The universe may agree on account of Kim flunked the required baby bar three times before passing on the fourth and last week announced she failed her first whack at the grown up bar exam, but vows to take it again. I should mention why Kim Kardashian was bitten by the law bug in the first place in 2018. Kim K famously advocated for clemency for Alice Marie Johnson, a grandma who was sentenced to life in prison 20 years earlier for a non violent drug conviction. Kim K. Had the privilege and honor of communicating directly with President Trump during his first term to advance Johnson's cause, resulting in a commutation of Johnson's draconian sentence and ultimate release from prison. Bravo. While high on the fumes of that success, the reality star concluded that being a real lawyer and is glamorous, sexy and a piece of fucking cake. There's only one small problem it ain't in real life, being a lawyer is less about being invited to the White House and more about being driven to the madhouse by having to battle unfair judges, power hungry prosecutors, and clients who get pissed off when those six non emergency calls to your cell phone on Thanksgiving show up on their bill. You cannot wear your ticket to practice law like a Birkin in the crook of your arm, mainly because if you leave a Birkin unattended in the courtrooms where real lawyers practice, it'll disappear. Our profession is not a vanity project. It takes real grit, long hours, unwashed ponytails, the fortitude to kick ass during cross exam even when you got a pee real bad. It it's tons of stress and takes endless sacrifice and it is so worth it. My real lawyer advice? You're not cut out for this business, Kim says me, the woman who studied for the bar in her neighbor's garage because I needed to borrow light on account if I couldn't afford to pay my electric bill and still managed to pass the bar on the first try. You did a great job as a non lawyer for Alice Marie Johnson. So why not just do more of that while you're at it? How about play to your strength and pay homage by changing the name of your underwear line from Skims to Legal Bikini Briefs or the re Bought Lifting Leggings. And my personal favorite, a new line for men called the Hung Like a Jury Jock Strap Collection. You're welcome.

[Ashley Merchant]

Jonna. I think next time I argue for a hung jury, I'm going to use that last one.

[Jona Spielberg]

You can take it.

[Ashley Merchant]

All right. Well, I was actually going to talk about arraignments as they were sort of the next step in the legal process, but Jona sort of inspired me to talk about what's called an Alford plea. So I Want to use the example of a case we talked about earlier, Devin Michaels, when she pled guilty, but then the judge and the prosecutor said, ugh, I'm not willing to take this plea. Because she got up there and said, well, I didn't do it. I'm innocent. I want to plead guilty, but I'm innocent. So what do you do when a client says, I want to plead guilty, but I'm innocent? Or what do you do if a client says, I want to plead guilty, but I only did counts four, five, and six? I didn't do counts one, two, and, you know, seven. They got it wrong. It was actually a gun, not a, you know, shotgun, something like that. What do you do? Well, wonderful enough, we have an alternative. We have this thing called Alford versus North Carolina. It's a case out of the Supreme Court that says if you think it's in your best legal interest to enter a guilty plea, you can do that. You can do that, and you can get sentenced just like you were guilty. You get all the same things as a guilty plea. You go to prison, you get the same sentence, you're a convicted felon. All that stuff is the same. But you get the benefit of not having to answer that one question of, are you, in fact, guilty when the judge asks you that? And a lot of people just can't answer that question. And so that works for them. A lot of people are scared. And, you know, if you think about it, it really does shine a light on our justice system that people who didn't do something or maybe dispute the charges in some way are so scared about what we call the trial tax that they want to enter a plea so that they can avoid going to trial. And, you know, weeks from now, we'll talk about the trial tax. But I think you can kind of guess what it is. It's you getting hammered after going to trial and losing versus what you'd get if you take a plea. And we'll talk about that more, since I only have a minute, but I wanted to at least introduce you to the concept of an Alford plea. It is an alternative. And so if you hear that, Alford, whenever you're listening to your True Crime podcast or you're watching tv, that's what it means. Thanks. Thank you to my fellow contributors, Jona Spielberg and Mark Einklarsch. And thank you for joining us today on MK True Crime. Send us your story, suggestions, your questions, your comments, anything. We would love to hear from you. It's mktrucrimecaremedia.com have a great week.