Dave Aronberg (4:50)

Well, Arthur, you teed this up nicely. Before I go to Matt, I want to play clip one where that defense lawyer, Mark Agnifolo, is talking about the judge as a 13th juror and saying he will appeal. Let's play that clip.

Arthur Idalla (5:03)

We are planning to appeal. We think we have strong bases to appeal. The strongest basis is, is that the jury reached a verdict on coercion. It found there was not coercion. And I think the judge said coercion today as a basis for a sentence at least a dozen times. We think that that is unconstitutional. What we feel happened today was that the judge acted as a 13th juror, one that we did not choose, and that he second guessed the jury verdict.

Dave Aronberg (5:36)

All right, now, that guy on his right on our left looked a little bit like you. Matt Murphy, do you have a doppelganger? As my first question. And secondly, what do you think about the verdict here? The. The penalty?

Matt Murphy (5:47)

Well, Arthur's right. This was a huge win for the defense. Remember, he was facing life, and they came back with these two man act violations. The. The court. The judge actually came in and he said the range was 70 months plus. So he did depart from the sentencing guidelines. He departed downward, which I think is going to insulate this on appeal in a big way. There was a law that came in essentially that federal judges cannot sentence on what's known as acquitted conduct. But he didn't really do that. He based it on violence that he heard related to various things, like they didn't convict on the RICO allegations that had things like arson or the video of Cassie Ventura's beating in the hotel that we've all seen a million times. But the court, I think, can still consider that as circumstances surrounding the offense. That's the ruling that the judge made. That's essentially what they're going to challenge on appeal. I don't think that's going to go anywhere. I think that. And I'd actually. I wanted to get Art's thoughts on this. I did a little math on this. He's going to be eligible for the RDAP program. That's a residential treatment program that knocks 12 months off your sentence, I think, in most cases. And he'll be eligible for a halfway house six months prior to the termination of his sentence. He's already got over 13 months in, so by my calculations, he's only looking at about 18, 19 more months right before he's eligible for transition into a halfway house. And any appellate process that they've just kind of boldly announced on the courthouse steps very dramatically isn't even gonna be in its teenage years by the time he's already out, is the way I see it. You can still run that, I suppose, but I. I just don't see that getting any traction.

Arthur Idalla (7:41)

Guys, let's play it out. My thoughts, I think your. Your calculations are pretty, pretty correct. I mean, we will guesstimate a little bit. It depends whether he gets in a fight when he's in prison or anything like that. But more or less, you're on target. But if you play it out, Dave, so hypothetically, he wins. Now, it would only be if he won the appeal. It would only be a retrial on the man act. Right. He's already been acquitted, but you never know what can happen. Right. He could go in front of a different judge, who then sentences him in a different way, although you're not supposed to be penalized, but if new facts or new circumstances came up. So I get the fact that they got to say they're going to appeal, and I'm assuming they are going to appeal. But Matt's right. I mean, it's. It's. Even if they expedite the whole thing and they say, oh, yep, it's reversed and he should be let go, it's probably going to be a matter of maybe many weeks or a couple of months. You know, he. Look, he. He didn't get sentenced to 10, 15 years. He got sentenced to 50 months. I. I will tell you guys, I was literally walking to the cameras because I did a lot of media at the sentencing, and. But I was listening. I was reading actually, the. The New York Times, and I think it was cnn. You know, they were from the courtroom, exactly what was being said. And, you know, when the judge said things like, you know, I am taking into consideration all of your good deeds. However, you know, whenever you hear a federal judge in sentencing say however, you're like, oh, boy, here it comes. You know, I cannot ignore the bad things that came out in this trial. And he is a human being, and he did see a grown man beating the hell out of a defenseless woman. And to say that doesn't play a little bit of a role means, you know, you think the judges a robot. But then when I heard 55 months, I was like, whoa. I mean, you know, he gave him the maximum fine, which was, you know, for him, it's probably like Matt giving me a nickel. But, you know, it's. Overall, he's done. He's done. I'm sure. I look, I know they were. The defense was looking to go to have a celebratory meal. And I was texting them saying, you should still have that celebratory meal. Like, you guys crushed it. They wanted to have it with their client. And I, the judge said what I had been saying for a while Prosecutor Asking for 11 years was ridiculous and out of the realm of reasonableness. But the pro, but the defense asking for time served, which was 14 months basically when you put in factor in his good time behavior was also ridiculous. And the judge, he didn't go through the middle. He went closer to the defense request. And as someone who's been in the Southern District of New York for decades now, that doesn't happen too often. So hats off. All right.

Dave Aronberg (10:32)

I think it is the Goldilocks approach. Not too little, not too much. I mean, after all, if he had gone higher, which he could have, then it would have given the defense more grounds for appeal. So it's more likely he stays behind bars because of that sentence. That's Matt Murphy's point. Plus there is the possibility of a Trump pardon.

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Dave Aronberg (12:33)

President Trump is making a little some waves about possibly pardoning Didion. I can tell you I believe that if this sentence were a Lot higher. He would have pardoned him. I think the fact that it's just 50 months probably reduces the chance of a pardon, but not eliminates it. In fact, we've got a clip of President Trump talking about a potential pardon, not just for Diddy, but apparently Ghislaine Maxwell as well. Let's hear this clip.

Arthur Idalla (12:59)

4.

Ad Read / Advertiser (13:00)

The Supreme Court is back and said they rejected today an appeal by Ghislaine Maxwell to overturn her conviction. That means her only chance of getting out of prison is a pardon from you. Is that something you're.

Arthur Idalla (13:11)

Who are we talking about?

Ad Read / Advertiser (13:12)

Ghislaine Maxwell.

Arthur Idalla (13:15)

You know, I haven't heard the name in so long, I can say this that I'd have to take a look at it. I would have to take a look. Did they reject that she wanted to.

Ad Read / Advertiser (13:23)

Appeal her conviction and what happened?

Dave Aronberg (13:25)

They were not going to hear her appeal.

Arthur Idalla (13:27)

I see. Well, I'll take a look at it. I'll speak to. I will speak to the doj. I wouldn't consider it or not consider. I don't know anything about it, so. But I'll speak. I will speak to the doj. Clemency, sir? I don't know. I mean, I'd have to speak to the doj. I'll look at it. I'll. I have. A lot of people have asked me for pardons. I call him Puff Daddy has asked me for a pardon.

Ad Read / Advertiser (13:48)

But she was convicted of child sex trafficking.

Arthur Idalla (13:51)

Yeah, I mean, I'm going to have to take a look at it. I have to ask. Doj. I didn't know they rejected it. I didn't know she was even asking for it. Frankly.

Dave Aronberg (14:00)

He hadn't heard the name in a long time. I mean, no one's talking about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Right. And he still calls Diddy Puff Daddy, which is kind of quaint. Matt Murphy.

Arthur Idalla (14:10)

I do also. It's an age thing, brother.

Dave Aronberg (14:13)

Oh, okay. All right.

Matt Murphy (14:14)

Yeah.

Dave Aronberg (14:14)

It's old school, man. You're old school. So, Matt Murphy, what do you take of President Trump's equivocation on Ghislaine Maxwell, who is the devil's accomplice, and Diddy, AKA Puff Daddy?

Matt Murphy (14:27)

It's not going to happen on either one of them. There's just no way. First of all, one of the interesting things about our modern era and both of these cases is neither of these really is tainted by politics. These are not political prosecutions. Did he get prosecuted because he was a bully and he did horrible things? And Glenn Maxwell, her whole involvement in that was spine chilling and gross. And she was up to her eyeballs in it. Let's not forget Maria Farmer was one of the first people that came out. According to her, Glenn Maxwell threatened to kill her. And she was a 16 year old girl. So there's no, there isn't enough political taint in my view, on either one of these cases. These are good old fashioned good guys, bad guys. There's plenty of politics involved in each one, especially in Epstein. But at the end of the day, neither of them deserves a pardon. And I think that if he looked at it, Diddy deserved at least what he got. I think in the view of most people, I don't think there's any political vig in that for the President to weigh in. And let's not forget Diddy was also vocally anti Trump and Glenn Maxwell. She just got her appeal denied by the United States Supreme Court. And there's no. I would be shocked if there's a pardon in her future because she was up to her eyeballs in this. She really did procure young girls and young women from around the world to be sexually abused by Epstein. And I don't see any advantage at all in Donald Trump.

Arthur Idalla (16:03)

Here's where I need to jump in. You've done, it's fantastic. You've done thousands of indictments, correct? Thousands.

Matt Murphy (16:10)

Oh, I've done, yeah.

Arthur Idalla (16:12)

Okay. And in the course of your storied career as a prosecutor, if you were going to charge the head of a crime family like Jeffrey Epstein with a major crime like he was, and you had someone, according to you, up to that person's eyeballs in the criminal activity of that of. Of the boss. Tell the ladies and gentlemen who are watching right now, sir. Mr. Prosecutor, why would you not, in your initial indictment, why would you not charge the person who is up to their eyeballs and are, what David referred to, the devil's partner. So why devil's accomplice? Why two prosecutors? Why would you not go after the person who was the right hand person, basically, according to you, like the trigger person of the conspiracy? Because you realize Elaine Maxwell's name is nowhere in Jeffrey Epstein's indictment or any of the charging documents.

Matt Murphy (17:10)

Yeah, I don't care at all about that, actually, Arthur, I would. I would go after people separately all the time, especially big conspiracies. And a lot of times what you see is I can't tell you how many murder cases I did where we had one person. We did, we would jail the heavy, we would arrest them and we'd leave the Wife of the girlfriend out who would visit him in jail. And we would get home runs based on whispering little phone calls and people that they try to intimidate on the outside. And that's a, I think for really experienced prosecutors, that's a formula that a lot of them will use. You don't, you don't. Absolutely. There's no prosecutorial obligation or constitutional one to charge everyone at the same time. Plus, when I had my, my hesitation on saying about the politics of that, the what happened in Florida, and Dave can speak to this, but way more cogently than I can. But there was stuff that went on that was shady as hell regarding the grand jury proceedings by. What is his name, Barry Krisher, as well as Alexander Acosta. There was all kinds of behind the scenes stuff going on on Epstein. I still think, I don't care about the list guys. I'm uninterested in that. I want to know who is making phone calls behind the scenes that basically had them kill the Florida prosecutions and what he pled to. I'm one of those. That deal was a frigging joke. He never should have gotten that. It was complete prosecutorial failure by the Florida state attorney. Sorry, Dave. He's a friend of yours, that guy. I will debate him anytime, anywhere. That was a shameful deal. And same thing with Alexander Acosta, who's a Trump appointee, I think. So again, it balances the, like the right and the left. Like this was just a bad guy doing bad things and she was Arthur, up to her eyeballs in it, which is why she was convicted of it. I know you're, you have a lot of involvement in that case. Again, you.

Arthur Idalla (19:10)

Yeah, look, my office, you know, we wrote, argued and we argued and wrote. Joseph Pierre, we argued, we wrote and argued her appeal to the 2nd Circuit primarily not having to do it, really. The facts of the case having to do with what the Supreme Court just denied, which was how much coverage does a, an immunity agreement give someone? When it says the United States of America versus John Doe, does that mean you're and you have immunity? Does that mean you're immune from being prosecuted in the United States of America? Or does it mean you're just immune from being prosecuted in the particular district where that, that document is executed? Here in New York, they take the view that it's only where the document is executed. But there are other circuits in the United States of America that says no. When the Washington, D.C. department of justice signs off on an immunity agreement, that means the United States of America as the prosecuting agency, the Department of Justice cannot charge you, and they can't play games and say, well, okay, we're going to be immune in Florida, but you're not going to be immune in Colorado. And that was the real legal issue here. But I just have to say, Ms. Farmer's credibility has been shredded to smithereens. And Ms. Virginia Giuffre, she was the one who was supposed to be the real whistleblower. When the Southern District of New York interviewed her to testify in Ghislaine Maxwell's case, they never even called her as a witness because she was so incredible. So there's a lot more to that story and the part, I guess, that bothers me the most of a case of men abusing women. The only person who got prosecuted and is in jail is a woman, and that one man went down. And my theory is, if Jeffrey Epstein didn't take his own life or wasn't killed or whatever, and he went to trial, no one would even know the name Ghislaine Maxwell. They would have never prosecuted her. It took them over a year after he killed himself to pursue her. It wasn't like they had the docket all lined up for her. She was an afterthought. But once they did millions of dollars to get Jeffrey Epstein, and now he's dead. They can't just throw that out the window. So they have to go after her as well.

Dave Aronberg (21:19)

They did get her on five out of six counts. The jury of her peers found her to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But to your point, Arthur, and I think it's something that you and Matt and I can all agree upon, is that it is unheard of for someone to get immunity in a deal where they're not even a signatory to the deal. They have to give up nothing. This is a deal where the prosecutors, federal prosecutors, came down and required Jeffrey Epstein to plead guilty and to state crimes, not federal crimes. I've never seen that before. Where a federal prosecutor says, you're gonna plead guilty to state crimes and serve state time in a state facility, in this case, local jail, and we're gonna give immunity to all conspirators known and unknown. And since Ghislaine Maxwell was not listed, as you correctly said, Art, she could have an argument that in the future she's untouchable. But because that is so unusual, the Southern District of New York said no. They agreed with Matt. Like, I'm not abide by that garbage offer, that garbage deal where someone who never even was part of the Deal never gave up anything, never was even named. Gets this unlimited get out of jail free card. Not here. And the Supreme Court essentially endorsed that argument from the Southern District of New York by rejecting her appeal by saying, we're not even gonna hear it. Quite frankly, I think there was enough grounds for the appeal that they should have heard it. I think the reason why they didn't is because they didn't wanna be affected by the fallout from Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein.

Arthur Idalla (22:45)

Yeah.

Dave Aronberg (22:46)

That stank from this case. And they didn't want to be anywhere near that junkyard. So I think that's the reason. Matt, do you agree? Were you surprised that the Supreme Court passed on this? It seemed like a legitimate argument.

Matt Murphy (22:58)

You know, it was a good argument. The problem is that for the viewer, as a fundamental, like day one criminal law concept, a criminal defendant cannot assert the constitutional rights of somebody else. So Jeffrey Epstein's liberty interests were in jeopardy during that prosecution. It was all focused on him. And it's a parallel sort of analysis. I think you cannot assert somebody else's constitutional rights and you can't. I don't think you can claim somebody else's deal. That was like, Alex Acosta had to resign. I believe he was Secretary of Labor because of that deal was so bad. And they. There's a federal judge that found that they violated the Federal Victim Rights act because they engineered that deal and they didn't provide any notice to the victims of that. Victims were treated horribly in that case. Not to spar with my buddy Arthur. I would love to prosecute Ghislaine Maxwell personally for what I saw in that. I prosecuted people for less that are still in prison and who don't have access to the president or. Or. Yeah. And as far as Maria Farmer, I don't know. I've read her stuff. She's taken some credibility hits, as a lot of them did, but she was one of the very first victims. Came out, reported to Vanity Fair magazine, as many of us know.

Arthur Idalla (24:22)

Much money did she get?

Matt Murphy (24:23)

Vanity Fair, how much.

Arthur Idalla (24:24)

How much of a check did she get? I'm just curious. I figured. I know. P. Diddy's complaints got $30 million.

Matt Murphy (24:31)

Very, very.

Arthur Idalla (24:32)

Weinstein's got. Weinstein's got $4 million.

Matt Murphy (24:35)

Hang on.

Arthur Idalla (24:35)

They.

Dave Aronberg (24:35)

Hold on.

Matt Murphy (24:36)

They dumped that. They dumped that article. They. They wrote a puff piece for him instead. And. And would I be shocked that your client might have thrown out a death threat to that young woman? That wouldn't surprise me one bit. So, yeah, I would have loved to have prosecuted Her. Maybe one day. Maybe she'll get some sort of reversal art. We could do it together. I'll get a. I'll get. I'll get deputized by the Southern District and take a guy out of prosecutor.

Arthur Idalla (25:06)

Take the prosecutor out of the guys. That's the thing, David.

Dave Aronberg (25:09)

It's true.

Matt Murphy (25:10)

I call him as I see him. And that's one that has bugged me ever since what originally went down in Florida. I think the Miami Herald deserves a lot of credit for bringing it to light, but there's people that are watching this. There's a really interesting article out there called why didn't Vanity Fair run the story about Jeffrey Epstein? It's in the. It's in the New Yorker, and it's worth a read. It's easy to find on Google. And it gets into. The reporter blames the editor. The editor blames the reporter.

Arthur Idalla (25:36)

Who's it by?

Matt Murphy (25:37)

Ronan. Sexually abused and everybody's ignoring him, including Vanity Fair magazine.

Arthur Idalla (25:45)

There's a lot of scandal in the New Yorker.

Dave Aronberg (25:48)

Say it again, Art.

Arthur Idalla (25:49)

I was just wondering, is that. Is that article in the New Yorker by Ronan Farrow?

Matt Murphy (25:55)

No, it's not. Ron and Farrow.

Dave Aronberg (25:58)

You know, Art, we're glad to have you on because, you know, it's an unpopular viewpoint to go after the Farmer and Virginia Giuffre. You are right, though, that Virginia Giuffre was not found to be credible enough to be a witness in the Glenn Maxwell prosecution. Farmer, though, I agree with Matt, you realize.

Arthur Idalla (26:17)

I realize she also ruined the last. Sorry, David, but this is also very personal because he's not a client, he's a friend. Is Alan Dershowitz. I mean, she ruined his life. She ruined Alan Dershowitz. His life. Only to after, like almost a decade later to say, I may have made a mistake. Maybe it wasn't Alan Dershowitz who did X, Y and Z to me six different times in six different places. Maybe I was wrong about that.

Dave Aronberg (26:44)

Well, she did sign. Megan Kelly covered that.

Arthur Idalla (26:47)

Extensive. Megyn Kelly covered that, God bless her, extensively. When that came out to be like, you know, come on, you. You really. You get attacked six different times in six different places. And now years later, well, maybe. Maybe it really wasn't him. I mean, you know.

Matt Murphy (27:04)

Yeah, that's not Maria.

Arthur Idalla (27:05)

And what happened to her? Nothing.

Dave Aronberg (27:06)

Right. That's not Farmer. That's. That's true, though.

Matt Murphy (27:09)

That's not Farmer. I like Alan Dershowitz, but I think that's a. That's a bit of a bold call to say ruin his life. Art, it was awful. Oh, she recanted.

Arthur Idalla (27:18)

Listen, bro.

Matt Murphy (27:18)

But he's. Hey, listen, man, this one, you got.

Arthur Idalla (27:20)

To stay in your lane because I know him very, very, very well. I had to fly down on a plane from New York to Florida because he was almost despondent. And I can tell you exactly what he said. Professor Dershowitz. He said, arthur, I've been an educator, I've written books, I've been a trial attorney. And yet when I die, in the first paragraph of my obituary, it will talk about this. He was.

Matt Murphy (27:43)

Well, he's wrong. And we might have different. You and I might have different definitions on ruining somebody's life. I got a police officer.

Arthur Idalla (27:50)

Well, all you have is your reputation. All you have is your reputation in the legal field.

Dave Aronberg (27:56)

How about. Matt, you get the last word and then we're going to go to break.

Matt Murphy (28:00)

Yeah, look, when it comes to the sexual abuse of children, I think that we really have to defer for public safety reasons. And I think that what happened in Florida was an abomination that should never happen again. And I think that there's still a lot of questions about that case that people should be asking. And I also think that there's an interesting blend with the media. The reporter who I know, Art, who is involved in the Vanity Fair thing, I think she dropped the ball in a huge way. Her name is on the manifest. I think it's reprehensible in every way. And I agree with you on most things you say, buddy. But I do not agree with you on Maria Farmer. And I think that what she and her sister described was real. It was true. And I think that there's a reckoning out there for others that still hasn't happened yet. And I'm here for it.

Dave Aronberg (28:51)

So, Matt Murphy, thank you for this great debate, Art, Idala, appreciate it. This is hopefully going to go viral because everyone needs to hear this. This is a really good debate on a great channel. And you can email us if you have questions@mk true crime and devilmakeremedia.com but first, next, Mark Sanchez, former NFL quarterback of the Stinking Jets. Yes, smoking like a true Miami Dolphins fan. A long suffering Dolphins fan. He's been hit with felony charges. We're gonna get to that next. If you've got questions or comments, as I said, email us mktruecrimedia.com we love to hear from you.

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Dave Aronberg (30:48)

Former NFL quarterback Mark Sanchez was involved in a bizarre incident that happened over the weekend. He was supposedly doing wind sprints at night and got into a tiff with a driver. A guy who picks up cooking oil. Like an Uber driver. Some driver who picks up cooking oil. They got in a fight and. And next thing you know, Mark Sanchez is getting stabbed. First he got pepper sprayed. And since the driver is, I believe, 69 years old, he's now in the hospital. And it was Mark Sanchez who has been charged with a serious felony. In fact, we got clip two. Let's play clip two, where the prosecutor is talking about the upgrading of the charges against Sanchez's felony.

Matt Murphy (31:31)

Certainly the thing that stands out to us is this was a situation that did not need to occur. We are literally talking about people fighting over a parking space. We have added more serious charges against Mr. Sanchez at this point in time. We have filed a felony charge, a level 5 felony of battery involving serious bodily injury, which contains a penalty of one to six years.

Dave Aronberg (31:57)

Yeah. Can we also show video one? There's no sound of that. I want the viewers to see what Sanchez looks like here. Yeah, see, so he's out there. Doesn't look like he's doing wind sprints. Maybe this was after the incident, but he is. This is after he got stabbed. Yeah. All right. My gosh. Now, by all accounts, Sam's supposed to be a nice guy. Wasn't. Wasn't a very good pro Quarterback. But he's doing so right. It was okay.

Arthur Idalla (32:27)

I mean, he's. Look, he's. All kidding aside, he was okay enough that we know his name. Like, there were a lot of pro quarterbacks who are so bad. Like, you know, they come and they go. But look, I'm a. I'm a Giants fan who always roots for the Jets. And yes, he was definitely. But, you know, he had a couple of good seasons. But this is what I'm going to tell the two of you guys, just because I probably have a little bit more experience than you do sitting with a guy. And I'm not saying this is Mr. Sanchez specifically, however, I think it's pretty clear that alcohol was involved. Well, I. At least out. At least alcohol, let's just say that. But I'll just limit it to alcohol. I cannot count how many times. And I'm being very sincere. I have sat, especially in arraignments, like, right after an arrest, right? So someone is maybe 12 hours to 24 hours after the exact incident, and the client on the other side of the bar is waiting to meet the judge to determine what charges he or she is going to be faced with. And I say he or she and then determine if they're coming home on bail or they're going to be remanded, have said, you know, just said, you know, alcohol, alcohol, alcohol. I'll never forget one of the cases that have stayed with me forever because he was a young man, he was like 18, and. And he beat someone up, and. And there was a hate crime aspect involved. And when he got sentenced to like a dozen years, which was rough, and he goes, Mr. Aidala, he goes, alcohol is the worst drug. I've done all the drugs. But in terms of, like, getting into trouble, alcohol is the worst drug. And I have to be honest with you guys. I mean, I know weed is legal now, but when it was not legal, I never had a client who came in and said, I smoked a joint and I bought some, beat someone up, I smoked some weed and I stole a car. You know, it's because most of the bad drugs are, like, downers. I mean, even like, like not, you know, heroin and. And oxy, they usually just put you in like a. Like a down. Like, you know, you want to just sit in a room and listen to Pink Floyd or something. You know, the thing about the booze is you get, you know, beer muscles and beer goggles. And I. I don't think it's a stretch for us to assume, considering where this took place, right? Outside a bar that Mr. Mark Sanchez maybe had a couple of drinks in him.

Dave Aronberg (34:46)

Well, it's never a good look when people are wondering if you're on bath salts. I mean, that. That's the kind of weird behavior he was engaged in with a guy. First he sprayed them with pepper spray. This old man. I shouldn't say old man, because this working man who's there picking up cooking oil, I guess, leftover oil, takes it back, and he has to spray Sanchez, who gets in his face. And then that doesn't stop this guy from keep coming after him, and then finally has to stab him. And both of them look really bad afterwards. And it's Sanchez now who's been upgraded to a felony part because the age of the victim. But after all these people came out with these thoughts and prayers from Mark Sanchez that he's one of the good guys, and let's wish him well. It looks like he was the aggressor. Matt Murphy, what would you do as a prosecutor in a case like this?

Matt Murphy (35:35)

Was a prosecutor. This guy, the victim apparently has the. One of the stabbings went all the way through his cheek and cut his tongue. So that's what we call gbi, or great bodily injuries. So you got to. I mean, that's. That's felony conduct for sure.

Dave Aronberg (35:50)

Now he got stabbed, too.

Matt Murphy (35:53)

Yeah. The victim was stabbed as well in the melee. And unclear how that happened whether. Whether Mark Sanchez took the knife away, which I kind of doubt, or if it just happened during the struggle. It is a. I mean, look, just in the video that we saw there, NFL quarterback. You know, when we watch the games, you see the. The end of the quarterback is often the smallest guy. Those are still huge guys. He was his playing weight. Mark Sanchez was six two. Two, 25. That is a.

Arthur Idalla (36:24)

Like you, right, Matt. And Matt like you.

Matt Murphy (36:26)

Well, it's kind of embarrassing, Arthur. I am 6 2, and I had to. I had to think. I had to do the math, which I'm always bad at. But I'm like, that's almost £50 more than me on a. On a post surf trip. Skinny day. So that's. That's a big guy, professional athlete, and he's in great shape.

Arthur Idalla (36:43)

I mean, he's 38. He's in great shape.

Matt Murphy (36:45)

Great shape, right? And. And look, Arthur is right on this. There's a Dave Chappelle skit with Rick James where he talks about cocaine. Cocaine's. Cocaine's a hell of a drug. Alcohol is a hell of a drug. And I've seen that, too. We all Have Dave, right? You see the guy who is good and, you know, living a good life and doing everything right, and they get hammered, and all of a sudden they have that one bad night. And sometimes that's in the form of a drunken car accident where people die. Sometimes it's a stupid bar fight. Just a totally out of character thing that unfortunately can completely change lives. What I was surprised by, and I know both you guys were, too. How fast was this civil suit filed, guys? This was on Saturday night. The civil suit has already been launched, along with allegations. I wanted to throw that to you, Arthur. I mean, I know you've been involved in some PI Stuff, as I have, sort of on the side, outside of the criminal thing, but, man, that is awfully quick to pull the trigger.

Arthur Idalla (37:45)

Well, I will tell you, when a case like this happens. Happens, and it happens, whether it's a criminal case or a civil case, the term one of my officemates uses, like, the sharks are in the water. And the sharks being other lawyers. Other lawyers. I mean, when I. My first huge case was when I represented NFL great Lawrence Taylor. And I did his arraignment. And when I saw him. Lawrence, the end of the next day, after he played 42 holes of golf all day long, you know, we had a great meeting over a cigar and a bottle of Chivas Regal. And I said, you know, Lawrence, I only know how to do these cases one way. I go, I got to be all in. He goes, sure, all in. He goes, what do you mean? I go, lawrence, let me ask something. How many people called you today when you're on the golf course to represent you or whatever? He goes, oh, I think I turned my phone off after the eighth call. He goes, I saw you in court yesterday. You could never be as bad as everyone told me you were. So those are my colleagues, my friends, right? Trying to steal the case away. The same is even worse in civil cases, because that's all about the almighty dollar. And Mark Sanchez has money, but we presume. I mean, besides the NFL, he's got this. Had this great, you know, NFL contract with Fox, with Fox Sports. So as the lawyer, you don't want another lawyer stealing the case. So, hey, why not put my name on it? Put it into suit right away, and it makes it much more difficult for another lawyer from Morgan and Morgan, or one of those big guys who advertise and be like, hey, I'm the best guy, you know, Let me file the suit for you. So I. You know, I am not shocked that. That they did so. So Quickly, whatsoever what I was shocked about. And when the first person sent me the picture of the. The grease truck driver here, I sent back. I go, that can't be real. That's got to be AI messing with us. And now that I see it's real, I mean, someone. I mean, you know, those are some legitimate injuries. And, you know, Mark Sanchez has got a little bit of a hill to climb to get out of this problem.

Dave Aronberg (39:51)

Did you just give John Morgan a free plug on our show? He needs that. And I know John, he's a great Floridian, but I don't think he needs any more advertisements.

Arthur Idalla (40:03)

But.

Dave Aronberg (40:03)

Okay, fair enough. While I have you guys here, before this block ends, I want to bring up another case. Corey Richards, you remember her, The Utah mom who went on TV because her husband died suddenly of a drug overdose. And she talked about grief, wrote a book about it. Turns out she may have been the one who overdosed him, gave him fentanyl and had done it before, allegedly. And so she's on trial for his murder. And it turns out the same defense attorney who's representing Tyler Robinson, the guy who allegedly killed Charlie Kirk, is now involved in this murder case. So she's got a high profile defense lawyer. And apparently the star witness here for the prosecution who was the drug dealer who allegedly sold the fentanyl to Corey Richards, is now recanting. Art Idalla, is this a defense lawyer's dream?

Arthur Idalla (41:00)

Of course it is. Anytime you have a main witness. And here, it's really, in my opinion, like a necessary witness, because these cases are very hard, and I've been on both sides of them. Right. I've represented. I currently represent a family whose child was died over with an overdose. And, you know, they're dying to find out, you know, who did it and how it happened. And the district attorney's office here has been fantastic. But it is so hard to thread the needle unless you have someone saying, yes, I saw defendant A, give party deceased, party B, this particular drug. I watched them snorted up their nose, and five minutes later they were dead. Yeah, that's okay. That very, very rarely happens. But it almost happened here. And now the person is saying, no, no, I never sold fentanyl. I believe they said it was OxyContin, and OxyContin is not the cause of death. So Matt Murphy's got an uphill battle. He.

Dave Aronberg (41:53)

Well, Matt, they still got a lot of evidence against her, and I think the jury's gonna hate her when they see her on TV with the crocodile tears, talking about the Book she wrote to make money off of her husband's death. But, you know, that's just the prosecutor, me coming out. Matt, what do you think?

Matt Murphy (42:08)

Well, you know, this is one of those cases. It looks like this was revealed during an interview with the defense. The defense attorney is alleging that the prosecution knew that he was recanting. I don't know what that's based on, but apparently she has come in and said that we interviewed him and now he's recanting. Okay, so we got a term for this that we've all heard. A little crass, but it's called a witness pissing backwards. And where you see this a lot is in gang cases, and it's that first. And you see a lot in domestic violence cases as well. But that first interview with the police is so critical because it's recorded. And after that is locked in. Witnesses say all kinds of crazy things, as we all know. And so they will introduce one of the. Probably one of the very first evidentiary codes ever in common law, and that is prior inconsistent statement. So the prosecution still has this. He's a drug dealer. You know, I. I would love to see his interview, the original interview where he first laid out the fact that he'd given her fentanyl. But poisoning cases are really interesting guys. There is. I'm sure you've each dealt with them before. I. They're rare in the world of homicide, but there tend to be a lot of patterns. And one of the patterns you see over and over again is there's almost always somebody in the person's background who comes out and says, I had a similar experience. So this is going to be a very interesting case to watch. If I was the DA on that case, I wouldn't be running off and dismissing it because a frigging drug dealer has decided to piss backwards.

Dave Aronberg (43:45)

And what he told the police, I don't think they've got so much more evidence. This is a setback, but not fatal. Unless you've got art Idala on the other side. So. All right.

Arthur Idalla (43:56)

Never backwards in my life. For the record, I've never heard that term. We don't talk like that in Brooklyn. Okay? We're much more refined, dignified and elegant. I don't know what these California people, how they speak, but I mean, I apologize.

Matt Murphy (44:09)

Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're virgin eared.

Dave Aronberg (44:12)

You know, memories like this is an old expression all of us know and neither of us aren't. I've never heard of it either. Pissing backwards. So thank you for educating us, sir. We don't run in the same circles, clearly.

Matt Murphy (44:21)

I'm sorry to have offended everybody.

Dave Aronberg (44:23)

Oh yeah. Well, our virgin ears. So next, new body cam footage of Donna and Charlie Adelson show their true colors. You'll want to see this. Stay tuned.

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Dave Aronberg (47:02)

Welcome back. We'll get to our closing arguments and your mail. But first, an update on the Adelsons, Charlie and Donna. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Check out some video we have of the mother and son behind bars. First we'll go to Charlie, who had been convicted of first degree murder of the murder of FSU law professor, my friend Dan Markel. And here he is behind bars showing his true colors. Because when a guard had accidentally apparently opened the door of his cell and hit his toe, he went crazy, was all upset and just demeaning her and it was really ugly. And then the male guard came in and you'll see how differently he sounds towards him. Roll.

Arthur Idalla (47:46)

Stupid.

Dave Aronberg (47:47)

Sorry.

Matt Murphy (47:53)

Ken.

Dave Aronberg (47:53)

You 56 foxtrot too.

Arthur Idalla (47:56)

Really stupid.

Matt Murphy (47:59)

Congratulations.

Dave Aronberg (48:01)

Open a hatch. When someone's standing here barefoot, you open.

Matt Murphy (48:04)

A door into their toe.

Arthur Idalla (48:05)

Excuse me.

Matt Murphy (48:06)

That was really stupid.

Dave Aronberg (48:08)

Bring your lieutenant over. I'll tell him how stupid you are.

Arthur Idalla (48:10)

What you got?

Dave Aronberg (48:12)

Medical comes to hand me to hand me my pills. So I stand at the door so I can get them through the hatch.

Arthur Idalla (48:17)

Like I always do.

Dave Aronberg (48:19)

She opens the door and pushes the door and runs it over my toe.

Arthur Idalla (48:27)

I don't think it's broken. I just think it just. It's fine.

Dave Aronberg (48:31)

I just like my medicine.

Arthur Idalla (48:35)

Just.

Dave Aronberg (48:35)

He's fine. He's fine. He was just getting it off his chest to the. To the woman. And then the guy comes in, he's a different person. Too faced. But you know, this dude is a sociopath. You know, I have my own personal feelings about the guy who was involved in the murder of a friend of mine, but that's Charlie Adelen and Art and man, I want to open up to you real quick. Any thoughts about that video the nicer jail.

Arthur Idalla (48:59)

And I'm being sincere, like it's a nicer jail cell than I would imagine. Like, I'm not dead serious. Like, you know, I look, I don't get to go in where they live. I get to go to the attorney visiting rooms. But then they don't look like. They don't look like that. They're not like nice wood doors with little framed out glass and all of that stuff. So in his little wicked world that he's going to live in for the rest of his life, at least he's got a nice door.

Dave Aronberg (49:24)

Yeah, Matt.

Matt Murphy (49:27)

So when I went into private practice, guys, I had an old mentor who pulled me aside who retired from the DA's office and he did about five years of criminal defense before I left. And he pulled me aside and he said, always remember, never forget. The personalities and the decision making that brings them to your office does not end simply because you decide to represent them, which I thought was really sage. And you got the personality of this guy. He just comes off as a dick, right? Like, I don't know if I can say that on the show.

Arthur Idalla (49:57)

My mom's watching. But that's all right.

Matt Murphy (50:00)

He's just awful, right? I mean, and on the other hand, it's like, look, he's got nothing better to do because he's got, he's essentially, you know, he's got life. I don't know how it works down there in Florida if he's going to be eligible at any time.

Dave Aronberg (50:14)

But nope, there is no parole in Florida.

Matt Murphy (50:17)

So he basically gets to eat and complain about staff bumping into his toe. But it just, it's a little vignette. It's a window into that guy's whole personality. Like who would plot the murder of their brother in law because they're having a custody dispute with the sister. I introduced Charlie Adelson, people's number one. That's the kind of personality, you know. And we got a clip of mom, the apple didn't fall far from the tree that we're also going to play.

Dave Aronberg (50:46)

We're going to show that. One thing to add is that I've seen enough of these prison shows like Oz and even Orange is the New Black to know that if anyone ever badmouthed or talked smack to a prison guard on those shows, they'd be eating their lunch off the floor. They'd be actually picking up their teeth from the floor. This guy's lucky that she did didn't try to like go after him, I guess with body cameras now, you know, now everyone is treated a lot nicer because this guy was insulting, he was abusive and the officers were way too nice to him in my mind. But. Okay, so let's talk about you are.

Arthur Idalla (51:21)

You are correct though about the body cameras and the way people are treated. And in some ways it's, it's a good thing. I'll just leave it at that.

Dave Aronberg (51:30)

You know what? No, true, it is. At the same time it's just like these officers have to put up with this kind of abuse. It didn't seem to get any sanction whatsoever for it. But I guess his sanction is never to be free again in his life. So. All right, Donna, his mother who seems so nice before the verdict and then after the verdict he saw her true colors. Let's play the clip. Clip six of Donna before and after.

Arthur Idalla (51:55)

I'm with you. I'm gonna go to you. Yeah, only if you take me with you. Yeah.

Ad Read / Advertiser (52:03)

You got a big day, you.

Arthur Idalla (52:04)

Know, judge me not like, yeah, he might not like it.

Matt Murphy (52:08)

He probably wants to be here day two.

Dave Aronberg (52:29)

Okay, well, I'm sorry to laugh at someone's misfortune, but she has a convicted murderer now and she's the one, along with her son. And maybe their daughter will see who killed a law professor because the professor loved his kids too much. And now she's facing the consequences. All right, quick thoughts. Matt Murphy.

Matt Murphy (52:53)

You know what's shocking me about that is that woman was watching a different trial than the rest of us. I think, because you look at that clip, she thought she was going home, guys, right? I mean, I think that's what we see. She, she thinks she's going home and then afterwards, not so much. And she's talking about how, yeah, the judge isn't going to like the day because the judge basically called the defense out multiple times and her. And you know, throughout that trial is a no nonsense bench officer. That's what shocked me about that video, is that she actually thought she was going home. That was my read.

Ad Read / Advertiser (53:25)

Yeah.

Dave Aronberg (53:25)

And it shows how phony she is because that's not who she was. The, the person before she. I agree. She's living in her own bubble, her own world. Art. What do you think?

Arthur Idalla (53:33)

So I just want to make clear, David. So the video we saw at the end where she could barely breathe, that's right after she's convicted. Is that what that was taking place?

Matt Murphy (53:41)

Yeah.

Arthur Idalla (53:42)

Okay. Yes. So I just want to make sure, you know, despite what Matt says about me, there are times I don't win every case I try. So I have been in a position where people who may or may not be factually innocent or guilty, but they hear the words guilty and the reactions run the gauntlet. Some people are absolutely emotionless and some people totally freak out. So this point I'm doing this as long as I have, really, nothing surprises me. So now I'm not surprised she walked in half. Look, I'll be blunt. Harvey Weinstein, five, six years ago, you know, when the jury was deliberating for over a week, it seemed like everything was going in his direction. He was pretty okay that morning. And then they came back and they said, guilty. And, you know, he just looked at me, he goes, how could they say guilty? I'm innocent, I'm innocent. And you know, and then the. Because he had never been in jail before and all of a sudden, you know, stand Up. Put your hands behind your back. You know, wow. I mean, you're. You go from eating caviar to baloney in literally minutes. You know, you go from having a private bathroom with a bidet to, you know, having eight guys watch you do your business. So it's. You know, as I said, at this point, nothing surprises me about how somebody reacts when they find out that they're going to spend the rest of their life basically in prison.

Matt Murphy (55:00)

Yeah. Let me add this, though. She did not. Yeah. She did not have Art Idala as her defense lawyer. And we all watched that, too. Like, it just. It was. I don't want to criticize anybody. Her defense team was a little underwhelming from what I saw. And to roll in that confident after a closing argument that I just thought missed it. I don't know.

Arthur Idalla (55:22)

Yeah.

Matt Murphy (55:23)

I will be calling you if I ever get in trouble in New York City.

Arthur Idalla (55:26)

I'll wear this suit. Don't worry. I'll wear this suit. Okay.

Matt Murphy (55:29)

I like that suit.

Dave Aronberg (55:30)

All right, let's go to Mailbag. We got a great email from Margaret. And first off, I want to say thank you to everyone who emails us. We do get a bunch of emails, and we like to pick the best ones, and this is the best one. Margaret, I love your show. It's a fantastic idea. And add me to the people who would love to see it every weekday. My question for the lawyers who are prosecutors and are now defense lawyers, why did you switch sides? So I think she's referring to Matt and me, not you, Arthur, because I don't think you've ever been a prosecutor, correct?

Arthur Idalla (56:00)

Five years, brother. Five years. I tried first capital case in the state of New York. So have a seat. All right, Counselor.

Dave Aronberg (56:05)

Oh, man. I apologize.

Arthur Idalla (56:08)

And I tried. And I was. I was a prosecutor in Manhattan when. Before Rudy Giuliani came in, when crime was crime. I got sworn in on February 1st of 1993. I was trying an attempted murder case on Valentine's Day two weeks later. So, yeah, no, I was very much a prosecutor. So if you may, since I have the camera, I mean, I can answer the question, please. I was there for almost five years. I went through almost every bureau, the Grand Jury Bureau, the Narcotics Bureau, the Investigations Bureau, and then the Felony Trial Bureau. And for me, it just. The next step was to be, like, a deputy bureau chief and, like, be a supervisor. And that really wasn't. I was 29. It wasn't really what I was looking to do. And quite frankly, an opportunity opened up to run for a Local political office. And I said, you know, I've tried some serious cases. I tried rape cases, robbery cases, murder cases, cases, attempted murder cases, you know, and a lot I tried 13 trials to verdict in one calendar year, which, you guys know is no joke. And so I was like, all right, let's. I ran for office. I lost by 108 votes out of 7300. And then I was like, let's try this criminal defense attorney thing out. And it kind of worked out pretty well, especially since most of the cases I got initially were from the district Attorney's office. Friends and family members of my former colleagues whose kids are relatives got jammed up. And the rest from 1997 till today is history.

Dave Aronberg (57:34)

Well, thank you, Art, and my apologies. I did not know that you once prosecuted the Joker in. In Manhattan.

Arthur Idalla (57:40)

Okay, something like that.

Dave Aronberg (57:42)

Matt Murphy.

Matt Murphy (57:44)

Yeah, not totally dissimilar. I didn't want to go into management, So I spent 26 years as a prosecutor and I spent 17 years in the homicide unit. And that was a vertical unit. So we were on call 247 for 17 years. And I had assigned cities where I'd have to roll out in the middle of the night with my detectives, which honestly, although it might sound sick, I still miss that every day. I miss my cops, I miss my team. But after 26 years of trying to save the world one murderer at a time, I thought it was a good time for me to make a move. We had a new DA that came in. There were going to be some structural changes that, that I wasn't really down with. So I thought I'd leave and explore what else was out there. I put up a flyer and that's when I got hired by ABC News, who've been great to me since I left in 2019. And believe it or not, there are some cases that I've been. I know Art has had this experience. I know, Dave, you've had this experience too, where I'm just as passionate about some of my defendants that have been charged with crimes, believe it or not. And a large percentage of my practice defending police officers. I got one who is charged by George Gascon in LA county that. I mean, he's an innocent man. It's kind of rare that we get to say that as criminal defense lawyers. And I will go to the friggin map for this guy with all the zeal and exuberance that I had as a prosecutor. So those cases are out there. They're few and far between, which is why I'm doing as much of this media stuff as I can in between those really good cases. But I miss it. But I have no regrets about leaving, if that makes any sense.

Dave Aronberg (59:27)

Thank you, Matt. And I'll be quick. I was state attorney for 12 years and I loved it, love every minute of it. But term limits are there for a reason. And even though I didn't have a term limit, I internally just felt that these jobs should never be forever. And at some point it's good to let someone else do it, to bring some new energy. I loved it. But I also love what I'm doing now at my own law firm, Dave Aronberg, Lawrence and it's just, it's a new challenge. Plus, I gotta be honest, I mean, I was living on government, on government salary for 25 years and I got married and I got a house in the suburbs. So, yeah, it's nice to be in the private sector for a while. So that's our answers here to legal mailbag. Thank you. And now it's time for closing arguments. We're a little over time, so I'm going to ask everyone to try to keep it to one minute. Art I. Dial out. The floor is yours.

Arthur Idalla (60:15)

I'm surprised that yesterday or the day before, wherever it was Monday, that the Supreme Court of the United States did not decide to hear the Ghislaine Maxwell appeal. And if they did so, because it's a subject matter that's not going to come up that often, which is one of the things they look at, like, how important is this actual issue? So be it. But folks should understand one of the kind of original jurisdiction matters that Supreme Court usually takes into consideration is if different states, different circuits rule on things differently because it's supposed to be consistent throughout the country. And this is one of those things. Ghislaine Maxwell argued that she was protected by an immunity agreement in the state of Florida. And it said the United States of America versus Epstein. And she was protected under that. And New York said, no, no, no, you're only protected. Even though it says the United States of America, you're only protected in Florida, you're not protected in New York. Typically, the Supreme Court of the United States would take that up and hear those arguments and make a decision and tell the country whether, you know, when you get an immunity from one state, you're covered in the whole country or not. But they refused to do so. They did so because it didn't make sense, because it's not an issue that's going to come up all the time. That's One thing, if they didn't take her case because they didn't want to get caught up in the Jeffrey Epstein smear, well, then they kind of neglected their duty and their obligation to all the citizens of the United States of America to make sure we have a consistent and uniform system of criminal justice.

Dave Aronberg (61:47)

Thank you, Art. And timely, all said. Matt?

Matt Murphy (61:51)

Yeah, I want to go back to Diddy here for a second. And one of the things that people have been kind of universally confused about is why was this a federal case when we had all these underlying state crimes? In other words, we saw the video of Cassie Ventura getting beaten in that hotel. We heard about Kid Cudi and the arson that happened there. And I want to speak just for a second to the defund the police crowd. And in Los Angeles county, where I grew up, it is a right now we have the lowest number of sworn police officers since 1995. There's about 8,600 sworn officers. And there really is an impact to law enforcement, but more specifically to the families of the victims of violent crime. Those are the people that suffer most from this defund the police nonsense. And I'm hoping the pendulum is starting to swing. But for those that are upset by the Diddy verdicts, in my view, he should have been prosecuted in state court for those things. He wasn't. And a lot of that is a reflection of kind of the LA City Council buying hook, line and sinker into that defund the police nonsense. So that's my rant. Just somewhere way down from the academic world and the ivory tower and slogans like that, there are, there are bereaved families that have lost loved ones that suffer the most when they cut back funds from police departments. So that's my closing argument for today.

Dave Aronberg (63:16)

Matt Murphy, thank you. Very well said. So today we are recording on October 7th, and it is the two year anniversary of the worst mass murder of Jews since the Holocaust. And I wear this ribbon to bring attention to the 48 hostages that are still in captivity in Gaza. Twenty of them are supposedly alive and I'm hopeful that they will come home soon. But it is tragic that they've been forgotten by many in the world. Many in the world seem to care more about the misguided, self indulgent Greta Thunberg, who tries to break through a military blockade during a war to promote herself. And instead you forget about the actual hostages who are still there in Gaza, who are starving and being tortured. And you had 1200 people who were murdered on October 7th, and it led to the start of an awful war, but a war that Israel did not start. And Israel has won the war militarily, but it has lost the PR battle. As college students and others march to globalize intifada, which means commit mass murder around the world against Jews and to stop the genocide, it is telling that it's Israel that has adopted President Trump's peace plan, not Hamas. I've never seen a genocide where the government of the supposed victims are refusing to end the so called genocide. This is a war, not a genocide. It's ugly and it needs to end. But the only genocide in this conflict was the one that was attempted by Hamas on October 7th. And all the protests and the violent attacks on Jews around the world, including in this country, continues to show why a safe and secure Israel must exist. On the two year anniversary of October 7th, my prayer is that a deal will be reached. The Palestinian people will be freed from Hamas and that they will choose a peaceful future with its neighbor and that the hostages will come home.

Arthur Idalla (65:28)

Now.

Dave Aronberg (65:30)

That'S my rant. I'm Dave Aronberg, AKA the Florida.

Arthur Idalla (65:33)

I'm joining your rant, David. I join in your rant from New York City.

Matt Murphy (65:36)

Yeah, I do too.

Arthur Idalla (65:36)

God bless you, bro.

Matt Murphy (65:37)

I do too. Yep, I agree with everything you just said.

Dave Aronberg (65:40)

Thank you so much, guys. It's been a pleasure to be on with you. We've had some spirited debate, but I have immense respect for you, Arthur Idalla, and you, Matt Murphy, and we'll see you next time.

Arthur Idalla (65:49)

I gotta tell you, I've been on with a whole bunch of these hosts now on MK Truth Crime, and you are absolutely average.

Dave Aronberg (65:59)

You know what? I've had a lot of guests on with me and Art. You are the most recent.

Arthur Idalla (66:04)

So God bless, guys.

Dave Aronberg (66:07)

God bless you guys.

Matt Murphy (66:08)

Yeah, thanks, Dave. Hey, Art, my girlfriend, believe it or not, is a huge Arthur Aydala fan here in New York City. So we gotta get drinks sometime, buddy. I come back, your world, your world.

Arthur Idalla (66:21)

Is whatever I could do for you. Consider it done. As long as Natasha approves it, we're good.

Dave Aronberg (66:27)

Well, we're still on the air. Technically, we're all buddies here.

Arthur Idalla (66:31)

We're all friends. Me, you, Natasha, Radar, the whole crew. I love it.

Dave Aronberg (66:36)

Well, to all of you who endured this to the end, send us your story, suggestions, questions and comments@mk.truecrimevilmaycaremedia.com MK true crimeevelmaycaremedia.com have a great week.