MK True Crime Podcast - Episode Summary

Episode Title

How Genetic Genealogy Can SOLVE the Nancy Guthrie Case, with CeCe Moore, Plus Kouri Richins’ Upcoming Murder Trial
MK Media – February 20, 2026

Overview

Host Phil Holloway, a criminal lawyer and former cop, is joined by co-host Ashley Merchant, a criminal defense attorney, for a deep dive into the ongoing Nancy Guthrie disappearance case. They discuss law enforcement dynamics, investigative challenges, DNA and genetic genealogy developments with guest expert CeCe Moore, and later address listener questions about the high-profile Kouri Richins murder trial. The episode combines real-time investigative reporting, expert analysis, and insight into both science and legal process, all with a conversational, informed tone.

I. Nancy Guthrie Case: Law Enforcement Dynamics & Investigative Hurdles

The Search Status and Law Enforcement Friction

• Background: Nancy Guthrie, 84-year-old mother of TV host Savannah Guthrie, remains missing. Phil reports from Tucson after covering the case on the ground. (01:04)
• Local vs. Federal Tension:
  • Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos is holding out hope and resisting FBI involvement.
  • Ashley points out a history of local agencies resisting federal partnerships, citing Sheriff Nanos' "vendetta" against the FBI due to past investigations into department mismanagement (04:22, 07:24).
  • Phil and Ashley debate whether this ego-fueled standoff impedes progress.
• Quote:
  • Sheriff Nanos: "They ask me, do I have proof of life? I ask them, is there proof of death? I'm going to have that faith. And sometimes that faith, that hope is all we have." (03:22)
  • Phil: "Shouldn't he really just say, look, we're going to follow the evidence and right now we don't have any evidence that tells us whether she's deceased or whether she's alive? … It's almost like he's injecting himself emotionally into this case." (04:00)
  • Ashley: "Why not let the FBI in? And they are desperate…to take over this investigation, but the only way…is if the Guthrie family actually asks for them to take it over." (04:22)

International Theories & Media Speculation

• Crossing the Border:
  • Media and social speculation that Nancy could be in Mexico, with the FBI bringing in Mexican law enforcement. However, Phil and Ashley agree this is "much ado about nothing" (12:28).
  • No concrete evidence supports the Mexico theory; could equally be elsewhere, media may just be cycling unconfirmed possibilities.
  • Phil: "Are you just trying to manipulate the news cycle or to get clicks on X or something by saying your sources are telling you this?" (12:56)
• Cartel Speculation:
  • Most sources doubt cartel involvement, despite the proximity to the border.
  • FBI is working any plausible angle, including following leads on cross-border movement and a mysterious purchase in Mexico reported by the New York Times—contrasting with Fox reporting no such link (16:01).

Misdirection, Rewards, and Community Fallout

• Investigative Scope:
  • Focus on minute details: e.g., a potential 'pinky ring' seen in surveillance, SWAT raids with no clear connection, and speculation about getaway vehicles (19:33, 21:07).
• Community Impact and Legal Risks:
  • Local residents are disturbed by aggressive law enforcement raids—some innocent parties detained and released; their rights and possible legal recourse discussed (26:15, 27:39).
• Rewards:
  • The reward is $200,000, with calls for it to be much higher given the attention and stakes (21:07, 22:33).
  • Discussion of whether private investigators could do what police can't if community trust is shaken (24:48).

II. Investigative Genetic Genealogy in Action (Guest: CeCe Moore, DNA Expert)

How IgG Works and Its Limitations (32:32–50:58)

• Definition:
  "Genetic genealogy has been around for a couple of decades and it is using someone's DNA in combination with the paper trail…to learn more about someone's family tree and family history." – CeCe Moore (33:25)

• Process:

  • Crime scene DNA is extracted and processed to find 'SNP profiles.'
  • These profiles are uploaded to public databases (GEDmatch, Family Tree DNA, DNA Justice) with far fewer profiles than commercial databases like Ancestry or 23AndMe.
  • Matches are usually distant (third cousins or farther), not immediate, and rarely a 'smoking gun' tap into a known criminal relative (36:36).

• Limitations:

  • Large consumer databases are off-limits to law enforcement without a court order.
  • Matching is only as good as the participation rate and the quality (non-contaminated, non-degraded samples).
  • IgG can be excellent for excluding large portions of the population—critical for narrowing suspects. (40:24)

• Notable Quotes:

  • "There are over 50 million people who've taken direct consumer DNA tests at the big companies. They have barred law enforcement from using their databases." – CeCe Moore (36:36)
  • "There's always something to work with. … The more people that do that, the quicker a case status can change if you're stuck." (41:18)
  • "It is not uncommon that we are sent a sample to analyze … and it ends up being someone who was at that house for a different reason." (43:56)

• Technical Clarifications:

  • Mixes of touch DNA, blood, skin, and sweat are all possible sources, but mixed samples (e.g., suspect and victim blood post-struggle) are best (42:31).
  • Parabon Labs and Othram Labs use overlapping but slightly different technology with the same end-goal of creating robust SNP profiles for analysis (35:00).

• Potential for Expansion via Search Warrants:

  • The FBI could, in theory, seek search warrants for larger commercial DNA databases, but this would likely spark major legal battles—an area CeCe Moore predicts may soon be tested. (48:42, 50:17)
  • "The government will have it, and they will have it forever. There’s a reason people don’t trust the government with DNA history." – Ashley Merchant (Closing Argument, 60:56)

III. Listener Q&A & Kouri Richins’ Upcoming Murder Trial

Corey Richins Trial Preview & Legal Insights (53:18–60:36)

• Case Preview: MK True Crime will cover the Kouri Richins trial extensively. She is accused of poisoning her husband, and the defense may argue accidental drug overdose (54:09).
  • "I would bet anything that she is going to claim her husband was a drug addict or he was using drugs. ... That's going to be her best defense." – Ashley (54:09)
• Defendant’s Public Statements:
  • Corey Richins is on record proclaiming her innocence ("What I really didn't do: just burn up my husband... I could not and would not ever do that... This means war." — 55:04)
  • Discussed whether her self-serving statements could be played for the jury (not likely, unless she testifies; 56:18).
• Walk the Dog Letter:
  • Letter found in her cell (purportedly to her brother via her mother), seemingly directing the crafting of a defense (set up a story about Eric's drug use and alleged purchase of fentanyl in Mexico; 58:04).
  • This document could be used by prosecution to refute her narrative if she asserts the accidental overdose theory.

IV. Closing Arguments & Reflections

Data Privacy and DNA (Ashley Merchant, 60:56)

• Concerns Over Government DNA Access:
  "Your DNA is not your email address...If that data is breached, sold, misused or subpoenaed into some massive government data, you don’t get to take it back...there’s a reason people don’t trust the government with DNA history." (60:56)
  • Emphasizes the permanence and sensitivity of DNA data, importance of strong privacy protections, and the slippery slope from violent crime investigation to much broader surveillance.

Jury Selection & Batson Challenges (Phil Holloway, 63:55)

• Education on Jury Selection:
  • Explains the voir dire process and Batson challenges (prohibiting race-based juror strikes), why and how these challenges are raised, and their impact on fair trials—important as listeners follow live trial coverage.

Memorable Quotes

• On Sheriff Nanos & Investigative Direction:
  "It's a shame that they can't play well together in the sandbox, because that's really what's required...That's what the family deserves, that's what Nancy Guthrie deserves, and that's what the public deserve, quite frankly." – Phil Holloway (08:55)

• On the Limitations of DNA Databases:
  "There's a huge misconception that we are using Ancestry DNA and 23andMe for law enforcement cases, but we are not." – CeCe Moore (36:36)

• On DNA Privacy:
  "Companies like Ancestry collect your DNA. ...They're not just holding data—they're holding your health history, your biological blueprint ... The government should not have our DNA." – Ashley Merchant (60:56)

• On the Richens Defense Strategy:
  "She's going to have to claim that he was using it and it was an accidental overdose. That’s going to be her best defense..." – Ashley Merchant (54:09)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sheriff/FBI Tension/Background: 01:04–08:55
• Mexico Theory & Media Analysis: 08:55–16:01
• Reward, Raids, Community Impact: 19:33–29:43
• Genetic Genealogy with CeCe Moore: 32:32–50:58
• Richens Trial, Evidence, & Legal Q&A: 53:18–60:36
• Closing Arguments (Privacy & Jury Selection): 60:56–68:24

Conclusion

This episode blends on-the-ground investigation, legal critique, scientific explanation, and practical guidance for trial-watchers. It raises critical questions about cooperation among agencies, responsible DNA use in crime-solving, media dynamics in high-profile cases, individual rights during crisis-driven investigations, and the practical demands placed on the criminal justice system as technology and public awareness evolve.