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MK True Crime
Justice Finally Comes For Nicholas Rossi, Ghislaine Maxwell's Life in Prison, Oregon Serial Killer
00:48:03
MK True Crime contributors Arthur Aidala, Matt Murphy, and Phil Holloway join the show to discuss the bizarre case of Nicholas Rossi, a man who faked his own death and assumed a new persona to evade rape charges, how the law finally caught up with Rossi and delivered a guilty verdict this week, inside updates on Ghislaine Maxwell and if the judge was correct in ruling against unsealing grand jury testimony, how Bryan Kohberger’s inmates are harassing him in prison, what forensics experts have revealed about Bryan’s relationship with his mother, an accused serial killer out of Oregon has striking parallels to ‘The Dating Game Killer’ Rodney Alcala, and the undercover tactics police used to gain evidence on Donna and Charlie Adelson in connection to Dan Markel’s murder. Arthur Aidala: https://aidalalaw.com Matt Murphy: https://www.mattmurphylaw.com Phil Holloway: https://x.com/PhilHollowayEsq Just Thrive: Visit https://justthrivehealth.com/discount/Megynand use code MEG...
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- [00:01]
Matt Murphy
When work gets crazy, I like to.
- [00:03]
Phil Holloway
Stop by the bar after, have a few cold ones. I don't drink at all until 4 o'. Clock.
- [00:09]
Nicholas Rossi
We limit ourselves to one bottle of wine a night.
- [00:12]
Arthur Aidala
Excessive drinking has a way of sneaking up on us. A few drinks, a few nights a week, it can add up. And suddenly we're at greater risk for long term problems like heart disease, cancer and depression. Reason enough to rethink to Drink more@rethinktodrink.com initiative.
- [00:35]
Hi, welcome to MK True Crime. I am Arthur Aidala and I'm lucky enough to be the host today with two great lawyers. One, Matt Murphy. Well, in my world, Matt Murphy is known as Matt Guitar Murphy in the Blues Brothers movie and he's one of the best guitarists in the blues realm. But I have one of the best lawyers right here with us. Matt Murphy was a prosecutor for over two decades and now he's out there fighting for the citizens of America. And Phil Holloway, Philip Andrew Holloway, he his omnipresent. I see him every time I turn on the tv. And I need some significant legal analysis. And we are going to start off with a doozy of a case with a guy who decided to make his alias the name of Arthur. Come on, man, come on. Nicholas Rossi, you got to go with Arthur Knight. So, Mr. Murphy, why don't you give us a little background about what Mr. Rossi was convicted of yesterday.
- [01:36]
Matt Murphy
Yeah, this case is just wild, Arthur. This one is. So essentially this guy was charged with what, what would commonly be known as a date rape scenario. He had a whirlwind relationship with this woman. They, they got engagement rings within the first month. And as she started to figure out what a, for lack of a better term, what a complete freak this guy was, she decided to break it off and he sexually assaulted her. He then in 2020, he faked his own death and he moved to, he moved to Europe. And this guy took on an English accent, claimed to be an Irish orphan named Arthur Knight. You can't make this up. And he fought extradition under a mistaken identity claim for over three years while held in custody in Scotland. So this is just an absolutely wild case. Came back, was ultimately extradited, went on trial and, and was convicted yesterday for rape in the state of Utah.
- [02:37]
Arthur Aidala
So Phil Holloway, I mean, is that the best alias you go with Arthur Knight? Like the Knights of the Round Table?
- [02:43]
You know, that's what I thought. I thought about that. Yeah. Is he talking about King Arthur? And that's exactly what went through my mind when I first Saw that that was what his alias was. But, you know, the irony here, guys, is that this guy fought extradition for three years, obviously unsuccessfully. And by the way, nobody really ever wins extradition fights. It's very, very rare. But this is for a case. I mean, he was. What he was convicted of carries up to five years in prison. Now, what I don't know, and it's worth discussing maybe, is whether he gets credit for all of that time that he spent in jail overseas waiting his extradition. I mean, if I were the prosecutor, I would say, no, he doesn't get credit for it because he was fighting extradition. That's on him. If he had. If he had waived extradition and he's just simply waiting on somebody to send a plane to bring him back, then maybe I could see you get some credit for pretrial confinement. And the other irony, guys, on this case is that this was a case that was alleged to have occurred in 2008. And, of course, there was no claim made by the victim in the case until 2022. And I think that. But for this crazy nonsense of him claiming to be an Irish orphan, which was demonstrably untrue. And of course, he later even confessed that he was lying about it. If he hadn't done that, he might have had a very defensible case. Who knows? But he clearly qualifies for the dumbest criminal of the year award for claiming that kind of defense.
- [04:12]
I believe when he was overseas, he got married. And I think we have a little clip from his wife. If we could go to listen to Sock one.
- [04:21]
Nicholas Rossi's Wife
This Nicholas Rossi, when you actually read about what he's done, he seems to have done it consistently through his life. So why is it literally gonna stop when he meets me? I know my husband. He would never put me at risk. He would never hurt me, abuse me, do anything like what I read about this Nicholas Rosie.
- [04:45]
Arthur Aidala
Well, she's wrong. So, you know, as a prosecutor, you had to gauge people's credibility. She came off as pretty credible. I mean, I think she really believed what she was just saying. But she was wrong.
- [05:00]
Matt Murphy
Oh, she was. She. Absolutely. I agree. She. She believed every word of what she just said and kind of goes to the. To the manipulative powers of this guy. And just going back to what. What Phil said earlier. Look, I couldn't agree more. If had this guy just taken the phone call from the police and said, hey, guys, sorry for the misunderstanding. You know, we had consensual sex. It was consent all the way. She's bitter because of the breakup. And because I wouldn't pay for her engagement ring. Whatever. When I rotated into sex. If I can share a quick story. My first day in sexual assault, my old boss Chuck Middleton pulled me in and said, our fil telling standard in this unit is you never file a one on one. In other words, you always must have compelling corroborating evidence before we launch the missile, so to speak, and file sexual assault charges against anybody. You have to have that corroborating information. And Philip's absolutely right. If this guy had just not done. Not faked his own death. And of course, I. I don't mean to be glib, because sexual assault is terrible, of course, but this guy, I've never seen a better case, I think, in my entire career of what is known as consciousness of guilt and all of that. He's such a weirdo. He's speaking with a fake English accent and.
- [06:15]
Unknown
Let me.
- [06:15]
Arthur Aidala
Let's listen to him. Matt, let me interrupt you. Let's just listen to him. Let's play SOT2 and listen to what he's got to say.
- [06:22]
Nicholas Rossi
We were once a normal family, but thanks to the media, our lives have been interrupted and we'd like privacy. And I would like to go back to being a normal husband, but I can't because I can't breathe. I can't walk. People say that's an act. Let me try to stand up. Let me try to stand up. Exactly. Exactly.
- [06:47]
Nicholas Rossi's Wife
What do you say to.
- [06:48]
Phil Holloway
To someone who believes that. That you are Nicholas Oliverdean?
- [06:52]
Nicholas Rossi
I am not Andrea. I am not Nicholas Oliverde, and I do not know how to make this clear.
- [07:02]
Phil Holloway
What do you say to people who say, these are crocodile tears, he's putting on a show. This is all an act?
- [07:08]
Nicholas Rossi
Oh, that's a low blow. That's a right.
- [07:15]
Matt Murphy
How many Harry Potter episodes did he have to watch to get that accent down is what I want to know. I mean, it's just. It's too much. You can't make this stuff up.
- [07:25]
Arthur Aidala
So. So I feel. Here's what happens now. Now you get the call. You get the call that they're going to extradite them. And that's your client, Phil Holloway. That is your client, yeah. Tell the ladies and gentlemen who are watching MK Truth Crime right now how you're going to represent him.
- [07:41]
Well, the first thing, I'm going to.
- [07:42]
Get a big, big, big, big check.
- [07:44]
If that's the client. But no, seriously, you've got to say, look, first off, don't say a word. You got to Keep your mouth shut, don't say anything. We'll talk about it first. Not going to fight extradition because you know you're going to lose that. We're going to go ahead and go to the jurisdiction that wants to try you, wherever that is. So you get that out of the way. You cooperate. To the extent you cooperate, you pick your battles, right? You don't die on stupid hills like that. And you damn sure don't go on television wearing that crazy get up and the fake oxygen mask and all this. And by the way, he was apprehended, he was apparently treated for Covid in a hospital overseas and somebody recognized his tats, right? So it just goes downhill for him from there. But you tell him, don't go on tv, don't give interviews, don't say stupid stuff. If I could give one piece of free legal advice to everybody in America, it's don't say stupid stuff. If you, if you, if you say nothing at all, that's great. But the worst thing you could do is saying something that's ridiculously stupid. So you go ahead and you get him over here and then you look and see, okay, do they have any corrobora evidence? If they don't, then maybe just remaining silence the way to go. They did have another claim, however, from 2008. We in, in Georgia, we call this a similar transaction. You know, it's 404B. Other jurisdictions call it something different things, but it's basically the idea is if, if someone does something criminal and they do it in a unique way, that it's equivalent of their criminal signature, so to speak, it can be admissible. So in this case, another victim testified and said, look, ladies and gentlemen, the jury. He did something to me very, very similar under similar circumstances, whirlwind relationship and all that same year. And the judge allowed it in. So it was, it was basically one case propped up by another case, if you will. Each one of those cases, however, independently, had no objective corroboration. There's no forensics, there's none of that kind of stuff that you can get this many years later. So I think by far telling him to keep his mouth shut and don't say anything stupid would be the primary advice I would give him or anybody.
- [10:03]
Thank you for that opening. Let's play back to back side three and sat six and let's hear him continue to slap his mouth.
- [10:12]
Nicholas Rossi
My name is Arthur Night Brain. My date of birth is 22nd of the 11th, 1986.
- [10:20]
Phil Holloway
Tamar Vasquez for the State, this individual.
- [10:24]
Matt Murphy
Has been extradited and he has not admitted his name or birth date accurately. And so I don't think we're going to be successful on that today either.
- [10:35]
Nicholas Rossi
Objection, my lady, that is complete essay. And I would ask your ladyship that the prosecution chair calls for.
- [10:48]
Arthur Aidala
So, gentlemen, any thoughts? If this is your client, of asking for a mental health examination by the court. Folks should know that the court has the ability, when someone is in custody, to assign a doctor, usually at the taxpayer's expense, to see if someone is up for the task of standing trial. I'm sure both of you have seen that in your careers. What do you think?
- [11:15]
Matt Murphy
Well, that's why you're so good at what you do, Arthur, because I didn't even thought about that. Of course, that's probably the only hope you've got in something like this. And the problem is he's not going to get an insanity out of this. But if you can establish some sort of mental illness, you may, may, may, may have a shot at some sort of mitigating pitch to the sentencing court. But with that second victim, we call that 1108 in California, and you know, there's an. He's coming up for trial on that. I think he's ultimately going to get hammered. But again, because he's such a weirdo, I think that that's probably the only hope you would have, right? Like get some sort of like dissociative disorder diagnosis or something along those lines that at least you can make some sort of pitch to a judge that the guy's mentally ill. Other than that he's just a bully and a liar who likes to sexually abuse women.
- [12:08]
Arthur Aidala
Well, didn't he say that one of the victims tried to rape him? Don't we have that shots. That's S6 about.
- [12:17]
Unknown
He wanted to make a report that he had been raped by his girlfriend.
- [12:21]
Arthur Aidala
Did he say anything about whether she.
- [12:23]
Matt Murphy
Had reported that him raping her?
- [12:26]
Unknown
Yes.
- [12:27]
Matt Murphy
And, and do you remember the timing?
- [12:29]
Arthur Aidala
Like how, how recently she had reported him raping her?
- [12:33]
Unknown
He stated that she had recently reported that he had sexually assaulted her and therefore he wanted to make a report against her.
- [12:41]
Arthur Aidala
Okay.
- [12:42]
Matt Murphy
Also for rape. Correct.
- [12:44]
Arthur Aidala
Whose statement is this?
- [12:45]
Unknown
This is Nicholas Rossi's voluntary witness statement.
- [12:49]
Arthur Aidala
Please.
- [12:50]
Unknown
I, Nicholas Rossi, Hereby state that on 6, 8. 6 to 8 occasions of Orem, Utah, forcibly held me down and kissed me. She would wear lingerie and I would prompt her to get off of me. I would articulate to her that she and I should not be doing this yet she continued to do so.
- [13:11]
Matt Murphy
Regardless.
- [13:12]
Unknown
Of me saying that I did not want it. She would repeatedly insert my penis into her vagina. And she would say, you like that, don't you? She would scream and yell, yes, yes, give it to me. I would cooperate because I felt that she was being honest with me because she told me that she loved me, which turned out to be a lie.
- [13:36]
Arthur Aidala
I want to start by thanking the producers of MK True Crime recommended that we play that very entertaining side. Well, guys, now how do we feel about having his mental health examined? Because, boy, that's a new one for me. Phil, what do you think?
- [13:52]
Yeah, I think maybe, maybe he does need a mental health evaluation. The best thing he can do, though, right now. Look, he's going to get hammered on the second trial. The same evidence is going to come in. In fact, the both of these victims are going to testify again. It's just going to be the names are going to be switched as to who's the named victim in the indictment, and all this other stuff is going to come in. So it's the same kind of trial almost back to back. And, you know, the things that you say can and will be used against you in court. So you see there that these words are coming up. I think they could probably be used against him at trial. The best thing he could do, really, is to see if the prosecutors will just, you know, give him, let him cop a plea, let him plead guilty to it, get some kind of concurrent sentence or something and cut your losses. Because when you behave in that way, you're either just really, really stupid or you're insane. And I personally think he's not insane. I think he knows what he's doing. I think he's just really, really dumb.
- [14:51]
It takes a certain amount of intelligence to avoid or obey the law for that amount of time and create a new identity. Arthur Knight may have been the most creative name soiling the name of Arthur. How dare he. But he was convicted this week and he will stand trial again. So he's going to spend some time behind bars. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back, and we're going to talk about how Brian Hohberger is doing in prison. And maybe I could give you a little update along those lines on my client, Ghislaine Maxwell, and how she's doing in prison as well, and what judges said about her grand jury minutes being released. Don't go away. We'll be right back on MK True Crime.
- [15:33]
Phil Holloway
That cookie calling your name at 3pm Mm.
- [15:36]
Arthur Aidala
Yup.
- [15:36]
Phil Holloway
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- [16:30]
Arthur Aidala
All right, welcome back to MK True Crime. Arthur Idalla, Phil Holloway, Matthew Murphy. And let's get some updates on the Galain Maxwell case for open this full disclosure. I do represent Ghis Maxwell and different areas of her criminal proceedings. I was able to speak to, I didn't speak to her today, but I've spoken to people who have spoken to her, members of her family and friends. And it's no secret that she's been moved to a different facility out of Tallahassee, Florida and over to Texas in a, a much more habitable environment. It's still prison. Nobody wants to be in prison. But the Tallahassee facility where I visited her and spent time with her was not, and they weren't nice to me and I was there just to be a lawyer for a couple of hours. But the place where she's in now is definitely a much better environment for any human being to be in. The real breaking news is that the Department of Justice asked for her grand jury minutes to be relieved. And I'll throw it out to the gentleman here. The judges said, no, we're not going to do that. I'll start with Mr. Murphy. Why don't you tell us why?
- [17:54]
Matt Murphy
So every grand jury is supposed to be secret. And one of the interesting things about this story is just the, there's, there's so much hot blood and it's so heated politically that a lot of people, I think it's easy to do when they get caught up in the emotion of a case like this, they kind of forget some of the fundamental important things about totally apolitical law. And one of those is grand jury proceedings are supposed to be secret. There's an intense amount of public interest in this case, of course. And the federal judge said, look, the grand jury transcripts reveal nothing new. The only people that are really discussed are your client, Ms. Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, and that's it. So it's not going to do the purpose that they're trying to release it for. And look, in my view on this one, I think that the, I think the judge did the right thing here by keeping the grand jury proceedings secret.
- [18:48]
Arthur Aidala
Phil, were they out of order to even ask was Department of Justice Folks have to understand the Department of Justice, they know what's in the minutes, they know what's in the grand jury transcripts. So knowing that because these judges wrote there's nothing in here that's going to enlighten the public, were they wrong? Phil Holloway, for asking for, to, to unseal these grand jury minutes, which is so rare.
- [19:13]
Well, it is rare. I don't know that I'm qualified to say whether they were wrong or they're right. I think there's, you know, a political calculus that goes into that. But you pointed out correctly that they know what, who said what to the grand jury. They, they were there. There's some lawyer for the DOJ was there and they keep their files too. And so when the judge says, look, I've looked at this stuff and I've concluded there's nothing new here. There's no information here that would point to any other individuals or any other clients who may have abused young girls at the behest of any of the defendants in the case or Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell. And so I'm just going to go ahead and preserve grand jury secrecy. I mean, at the 10,000 foot level, I get it and I think that's the right thing. I think that the judge should not just casually or cavalierly expose grand jury minutes to whatever the public wants to, you know, do with them. It's, there's a reason why they're secret and there's a reason why we need to keep them secret. Because lots of times, look, grand juries investigate people and then they decide they're not. There's no evidence. There's maybe they're innocent or there's not enough evidence against them. And so you can't just start dragging names out through the public domain when they happen to be associated with somebody that everybody hates like a Jeffrey Epstein. So conceptually, it makes great sense to me why you would not want to just willy nilly have everybody's name who's ever been associated with Jeffrey Epstein being discussed on every news program, every podcast, all social media. Because merely being associated with Jeffrey Epstein is toxic. And so you absolutely could ruin innocent people's lives by saying that at one point in time, they were someone that was considered to be potentially under investigation. Okay.
- [21:06]
Even though that's probably the most. No fruit, I don't want to interrupt you, because I was about to say that's probably the most important point that's going to be make made in this whole session, because I've watched it. I'm sure we all have. You know, associations with somebody like that have brought people really, really wrecked careers. And I think Alan Dershowitz wrote the book Guilt by Accusation. It's even gotten worse than that. It's like guilt by association. And as Ray Donovan, the former Labor Secretary, said when he was cleared of all charges back in the 1980s, where do I go to get my reputation back? And in the world of social media, it's very, very difficult to get your reputation back. So I applaud the Department of Justice for being so reluctant regarding information they have. Not the grand jury minutes, but the information they have. And not just throwing people's names out there saying, oh, yeah, he knew Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein knew this person, and this one's phone number was there. It's caution should be really the. The driving force of the day. Mr. Holloway, you are 100, correct? Let's talk about Judge. Judge, how about jail? Let's talk about jail. And someone who pled guilty to life sentences is now in jail, Mr. Carberger. And apparently he's not having a good time in jail. I don't know many people who have a good time in jail. I know our friend Mr. Geragos is saying that the Menendez brothers are making the best out of their 35 years in jail. But it's usually a rough place to be. And when you're charged with killing four and pled guilty to killing four beautiful young people, I guess your fellow inmates aren't too excited to give you a warm welcome. Mr. Murphy, what are your thoughts?
- [23:01]
Matt Murphy
Well, you know, it's amazing, Arthur. Like the. When you deal with serial killers, people would be shocked at how often they'll come into a courtroom and complain. They complain about the temperature of the room. They complain about the meals. They are. The one person that all of these guys care about are themselves. You know, they don't care about anybody else. And of course, he's going to get hazed. He's Going to get harassed a little bit. Now. He's, he's what is known as a total SEP in California. So he's completely separated from other inmates. But apparently information's come out that these guys are yelling at him through the vents, that they're using the vent system to harass Brian Coburger. I personally will lose no sleep over that. You know, he's protected physically, but of course he's complaining because these guys always do. They always, they, they always have complaints. So, you know. Yeah, it's not exactly breaking my heart that prison is uncomfortable for him, especially given what I think was a real sweetheart deal for him by the da.
- [24:03]
Arthur Aidala
Well, you know, I, we could have that discussion. I think I had it with Megan. You know, is, is when you're that young, living the rest of your decades in prison, is that better than, you know, in five or seven years laying on a gurney and putting a little needle in your arm and just going to sleep the way we do to our, you know, our dogs when they get to a certain age? It's. That's a debate for another day. Mr. Holloway, what are your thoughts about how Mr. Coburger is being treated in jail so far?
- [24:35]
Well, you know, to your point, though, they've got the firing squad. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So he would, he would be spending the rest of his days wondering if the marksman is going to be true. Right. And is going to get it right the first time around and how bad it's going to hurt. So he's been spared that, I guess, mental endeavor in his brain, but he's, he has to listen to everybody jeering at him, screaming at him through the vents and talking about the complaining. He started complaining when he was first arrested because he wanted vegan food and all this. And look, I posted this on X just the other day. I said, look, you know, prison is supposed to be punishment. It's punishment for a reason. And I'm not going to lose any sleep either over the fact that he's having a hard time. He would be having a much harder time if he were not absolutely separated physically from the other inmates. But there will come a day when he's going to be in general population. I believe that the state has even said as much. They're not going to keep him separate forever. He's going to be in general population. We've seen with Jeffrey Dahmer and other folks what, what sometimes can happen when high profile or inmates who are particularly despised by the other inmates. We've seen how difficult it can be to on the inside. So I certainly have no qualms getting a good night's sleep knowing that he's being jeered at through the vents. But I did notice, and you guys, I'm sure did, too. The, the things that have come out about his case that I think are very, very fascinating. Like he was on the phone with his mother right after the killings, you know, and that he's on his phone, on the phone with his mother. He calls her mother, by the way, kind of like, you know, what's that show?
- [26:21]
Matt Murphy
Norman Bates.
- [26:21]
Arthur Aidala
Norman Bates, right. He talks, he refers to a mother and father and sister. He refers to them in that way. And he spends an enormous amount of time chattering with his mother right after these killings took place. And it's just a little bit, it's just unnerving to me. I don't know what you guys think, but it's just unnerving that he's on the phone with his mother while he's apparently returning to the crime scene right after he brutally killed those wonderful young people.
- [26:48]
And to give the inmates a little ammunition to really fall in love with Mr. Coburger, they've been releasing some crime scene photos as well that are pretty horrific. Matt Murphy, you know, when you, I mean, you were a prosecutor much longer than, than I was, I was there for barely five years. How much did you take into consideration? Not a guy like Coburger, but when, you know, when you had a sentence a guy and, you know, you were recommending, like serious jail time, did you take these factors into consideration, what their life was going to be like? I mean, I know you said, oh, they're always complaining about something, but you know, how much as a prosecutor, let the, let the viewers know and the listeners know, like, how much is a seasoned prosecutor as you were, take the life in prison into account when you're throwing around numbers.
- [27:43]
Matt Murphy
Well, when you're negotiating cases, it's a big deal, you know, because if you're talking about giving somebody a local time offer and these are the lower ranks of cases, like generic felonies, the difference between prison and local jail can be, can be pretty stark. California. They, they do a pretty good job generally of classifying them. In other words, if you're a, a nonviolent guy, but you're going to the joint, as they call it, you're going to stay prison, you're going to go to a, what's called a level one or a level two prison where you're not with like, the gang guys or the Mexican mafia. And you're not going to have a big target on your back. But for some of those hardcore guys, especially if they were young and they were going to the joint for the first or second time, you definitely factor that in for sure. Like a young guy who's going in, you might give him what's called low term if he's going to state prison because you know he's going to have a rough time and he's gonna have to deal with some of the politics and the violence. When it comes to murder, however, and you're dealing with the bereaved families especially, I don't know what, the moms always really got to me. When you're dealing with the family of murder victim, as a prosecutor, you don't give two hoots about what their life is going to be like once they get up to the joint, because you are, you're dealing with that palpable, that apoplectic. You can, like you. It's so thick. When you meet with those families, families get destroyed by it. And you, you know, guys like Coburger, the, The human wreckage that guy left as a result of that, you know, that, that's, that's the thing. Or I just don't.
- [29:14]
Arthur Aidala
You don't look in terms of human wreckage. And since you brought that up, they released a bunch of photographs, which is a little odd at this point. Much of the crime scene photographs have been made public now. I'm not exactly sure how that happened. That's not typical.
- [29:31]
Matt Murphy
Heavily redacted.
- [29:32]
Arthur Aidala
Yeah, yeah, but, but still, they usually don't, they usually don't wind up in the. I mean, usually the prosecutor doesn't release it and the defense attorney definitely doesn't want to release it because it doesn't make their prime, their client look too well. And there are some that we're going to show that have, you know, bloody, you know, piles of blood and I mean, look, you're looking at. That's a typical, you know, college room. They were clearly playing the. I don't know, the young producers here would know. What's that, that pong thing that they're playing? The ping pong. Beer pong. Beer pong, yeah. So producers had no problem shouting that answer in my ear. Yes, the beer pong. And you know, it just, it just breaks your heart. And I understand what you're saying, Matt, as a prosecutor on a murder case and you have a family member. Look, talk about mental illness. I mean, this guy's got it all going on. But does Phil Holloway any idea about a motive Regarding this guy, you know what was in it? I know they found surveillance of him in his WI fi password on one of the restaurants where they worked, where the young ladies worked, or two of them. I think two of them worked. Any clue what motive may have been what motivated this guy?
- [30:42]
Look, I. Look, he's. He was obsessed with researching serial killers. So I think part of it, it's. It's going to be a complicated motive if we ever can figure it out. But it's going to be multifaceted. He's. He wanted to. He wanted to emulate some of his heroes, which apparently were various serial killers. He did a lot of research on that. But he also, I think, researched some of these victims, maybe all of them, but. But certainly a couple of the young ladies who worked in a pizza restaurant, a vegan pizza restaurant, by the way. It was determined that his phone had accessed that wi fi network. And so I think that he was a little bit infatuated. I do think there was some kind of sexual component to it, and not that there was a sexual assault, but when it comes to serial killers, or in this case, a wannabe serial killer who was just getting active, there is oftentimes a psychosexual component to the motivation behind serial killers. And that's something that we could do an entire show on, actually. But I believe that he was a. He would have been a serial killer if he hadn't been caught. I think he was just trying to start out on his career, and I think that's why we saw this selfie that he took right after the killings of him basically giving a thumbs up because he was very proud of himself. And so he was saying, look, this is my new career, and I'm just getting underway, and I'm going to. I'm going to be the best serial killer there's ever been. So it's going to be complicated. His mind is a mess. But it's got to be some combination of all that. He wanted to be a serial killer. He was just getting active.
- [32:20]
We're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll come back and talk about an accused serial killer out of Oregon who pled not guilty. And I know Phil is all fired up to give us some updates on Donna Adelson. Don't go away.
- [32:34]
Phil Holloway
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- [33:49]
Arthur Aidala
Welcome back to MK True Prime. Arthur Aidala, Matt Murphy, Phil Holloway. And we are going to start with Jesse Lee Calhoun. He is accused serial killer of three and now they've just added four of the fourth victim. He's pled not guilty. Matthew Murphy. What are we saying about this?
- [34:11]
Matt Murphy
Well, this case is really interesting. So this guy got out very, very prolific. I mean, of course he's presumed innocent, right? But if it turns out that he actually committed these murders and based on what we know so far, the evidence looks very strong. This guy was very, very active. And what's really, I think a cautionary tale here is this. He was in prison from 2019. He received a five year sentence and for burglary. And there's information, it's a little bit sketchy on his background at this point, but he may have tried to choke a police dog. He's, he's, he's a bad guy. Okay. And he worked on a fire crew and during those big fires that we had in Oregon a couple years ago, he wound up getting his sentence commuted by the Governor of Oregon. Her name was Kate Brown and she represents a trend, especially in the western United States of these very, very hard left progressive governors who, who are they? Get into the, the words sound great, like criminal justice reform. And it sounds, that's, that sounds all warm and fuzzy. But what a lot of them do is they aggressively let these guys out. It's like we had a guy, our DA in LA has a guy named George Gascon. He just lost his reelection by like 30 points. These are the Hard left who essentially want to release a lot of these people. This guy got his sentence commuted. Now it looks like all of these victims were murdered after he would have been released anyway, but he was released early. And one of the things that is, that is I think very interesting for people to pay attention to is are there going to be any other victims that turn up that were murdered during the time that he was in prison? And let me share a quick personal story here. I was the prosecutor on the Rodney Alcala case. He was convicted of kidnapping an eight year old girl in 1968. He fled, he was extradited. This whole thing he wound up getting for a brutal kidnapping of an 8 year old little girl. He wound up getting 34 months actual in state prison. And when he was released, he got a life sentence. They released him after 34 months. He murdered, according to the calculations by the lead detective on the case, who's now a superior court judge, he estimates he murdered 100 innocent people. We prosecuted him right about a hundred.
- [36:37]
Arthur Aidala
Let me just make sure I got this. He received a life sentence, but he got out in under three years.
- [36:45]
Matt Murphy
That's right. He received a life sentence. It was, it was based on what's called the indeterminate sentencing laws in the early 70s in the state of California. He received a life sentence for a simple 288. They gave him a simple child molest for a kidnapping. It was, it was a cascade of failures. But this guy, he got out and he murdered dozens and dozens of people. And that is a, this is, this has, it reminds me of Alcala. And again out of fairness to this, to this governor, looks like every charge victim, he would have been released anyway. But she commuted the sentence of every single person. They had 17 people on death row. Her last act, like one of those midnight things as she's leaving office. She commuted the death penalty of every single person on death row in the state of Oregon, giving them life without possibility to parole sentences. But there's also big movements in California and Oregon and the state of Washington to eliminate LWOP or life without possibility of parole as a sentence that ultimately will, those guys almost certainly will get parole hearings one day. And I think that that is something that it's. People need to be talking about this, people need to be aware of it because we've been down this road before in the early 70s in the state of California and there are hundreds of innocent people who died as a result of those lenient, lenient policies. And there was a great, a great quote by one of the people that there's outrage. After this guy was arrested, he called this governor's clemency petitions reckless leniency and said it's a great term, reckless leniency. And this has nothing to do with partisan politics, guys. This is all about public safety. These guys are predators. You can't fix them. And when they are released, especially in reckless ways, innocent people die. So just kind of a. I wanted to point this one out. Thanks for letting me rant a little bit on this one, Arthur. This is, this is one of the things that hit close to home. It bugs me. This one really bothers me.
- [38:41]
Arthur Aidala
It's your career and thank you for sharing that with us. Life in prison. You I'm out in 34 months. That's a little whacked out. But speaking of whacked out, how about Donna Adelon? Phil Holloway, Talk to me about Donna. And you know, it's a murder for hire plot. She's on game shows. It's. Talk to me. Come fill us in. This is your moment, Phil.
- [39:08]
This is one, this is one that we're going to be going big on here with the MK True crime. You know, Dan Markel was the FSU law professor that was murdered execution style by some gang members back in 2014. A number of people have been convicted, including the gang members, the son of Donna Adelson, Charlie, who was a dentist in South Florida, Miami. He, and along with his girlfriend at the time, who was sort of the go between, they've been convicted. There's been a number of trials. And so now we're on the eve of trial for the matriarch of this alleged crime family, Donna Adelson. And so, you know, jury selection is set to begin. And it's, it's amazing that here we are in August of 2025, and this mur. It was in 2014, so many years ago. But it's important to remember that the police had to stay with this. It never really quite went cold, but it, they did have a. They came up against some roadblocks. They were having a hard time sort of developing the case, particularly against the mother, Donna. And so they decided to, to do something. I don't say it's unusual, but it was certainly creative. It's being referred to as the bump, which is where a undercover officer just bumps into her out when she's outgoing about her day. And for those of you who are listening on podcast, what we're going to be seeing and looking at is you're going to be looking at this Undercover who's approaching her in a parking lot, and he hands her a note. Scout his phone number on it. You'll hear the audio. So let's go ahead and call 411 and take a look at that, and we'll talk about it on the other side.
- [40:51]
Undercover Officer
Excuse me, Mrs. Adelson, how you doing? Just want to give you this.
- [40:56]
Arthur Aidala
Listen.
- [40:58]
Undercover Officer
No, don't be scared. Listen, I just want to let you know that we know that your family has been taking care of Katie and her friend for quite some time after your problem of north has been solved. And I want to let you know that my brother, he's incarcerated. He helped your family with this problem you guys had up north. And we want to make sure that he's going through some rough times. We want to make sure that you take care of. Of what he's going through, the way you're taking care of Katie and Tua. Well, this will explain it. Thank.
- [41:39]
Arthur Aidala
You.
- [41:42]
So they'll give us some context, put that into perspective.
- [41:45]
Helping. Helping your family with this problem up north. Remember, she's down in south Florida, The Miami area up north is Tallahassee. Same state, but it's quite a ways away. And so what does she do? She just kind of just carries on with her day, and I think it goes to see her grandkids later that day. You know, if. If this were me or you or you guys, tell me, what would you do if someone approached you and says, you know, I'm the brother of this hitman and I expect you guys to take care of him? If you're an innocent person, Matt, how would you react?
- [42:21]
Matt Murphy
Well, you probably dial 911 before the guy's even out of sight, right? I mean, that's a. That's a super weird thing, but I. I'm sure you guys were thinking the same thing. I was. I. I mean, this. This.
- [42:32]
Arthur Aidala
I was thinking I was just going to write out the check for five grand and hand it over to the dude. I'm. Check. I mean, I don't know if they take credit cards.
- [42:39]
Matt Murphy
What's awesome about this, from. From our perspective, at least from mine, is that how this woman didn't immediately peg that guy as a cop. And, you know, it's. It is a. I. They did a great job on this, the prosecution.
- [42:50]
Arthur Aidala
Let's talk about how sharp she is. Can. Can I call for her on Wheel of fortune? I think that's s. Number nine.
- [42:57]
Matt Murphy
And we now meet Donna Adelon from Coral Springs, Florida.
- [43:01]
Arthur Aidala
I want to hear all about you, Donna.
- [43:02]
Matt Murphy
Let's Go.
- [43:03]
Arthur Aidala
Well, like the ham.
- [43:04]
Phil Holloway
I'm a domestic coordinator.
- [43:06]
Matt Murphy
A domestic coordinator?
- [43:07]
Arthur Aidala
Yes.
- [43:08]
Phil Holloway
I'm responsible for the activities, classes, and lessons of my son Robert, who is 16, Charlie, who is 12, Wendy, who is 10, my husband Harvey, who's in the audience, and my dog Sam.
- [43:20]
Matt Murphy
Donna F. Yes.
- [43:22]
Phil Holloway
Mischief maker.
- [43:23]
Charlie Adelson
Yeah, that's it.
- [43:25]
Arthur Aidala
Oh, wow.
- [43:31]
Isn't that rich? Mischief maker, huh? I mean, did we plan that Phil all the way?
- [43:37]
No. I mean, look, the. Just the craziness surrounding this whole case is.
- [43:41]
I liked our hair, by the way. For the record, I was grooving on that.
- [43:44]
Wow. It was. It's been a. It was obviously in. What was that, the 80s or something like that. But anyway, it's 86.
- [43:50]
Yep.
- [43:51]
We started this show talking about a stupid criminal, right? And so what I want to go to next is the next piece of stupidity that I think is going to wind up sort of hanging the. The Adelson crime family and the matriarch of that crime family. Because what happened is instead of, you know, calling the police or calling the lawyer saying, help me out with this, she. She talks to her son Charlie, and she says, you know, Charlie, this guy gave me this note, right? And so what does Charlie do? Charlie, about nine days later, decides he's just going to go ahead and give that guy a call. And so we've got that. Let's go ahead and play SOT 11, and you'll hear how Charlie interacts with the undercover cop who he thinks is related to the hitman.
- [44:39]
Charlie Adelson
All right, what's. What's going on? Well, what's going on is my brother Tato, Okay? My brother Tato has not been taken care of. His family's not been taken care of. I talked to a dentist. Why are you calling me? Who are you? I gave the number to a lady. I don't know Tato. You don't know Tato? I'm sure you know Katie and Tuto. They've been taken care of since the family problem. Been taken care of up north? I don't know. You don't? Well, this. I'm going away, my friend, because let me tell you something. I was at Broward with Tato, and he told me the whole story. Let me. Let me look at it. No more around, man. No more around. This ain't going away. You guys need to do the right thing for Tato.
- [45:35]
Arthur Aidala
Matt Murphy, I don't think you're hanging out with a lot of guys named Tato. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I may be your good buddy.
- [45:42]
Matt Murphy
Tato, but Not this entire week.
- [45:45]
Arthur Aidala
Not this entire week. So, Phil, I mean, bad.
- [45:49]
Matt Murphy
Yeah, no, that. And that of course is the voice of Charlie, right?
- [45:52]
Nicholas Rossi
The.
- [45:52]
Matt Murphy
The kid that she was talking about, that she was the domestic coordinator for. And Charlie has been convicted of this. He is. He was the instrumental in the murder of.
- [46:00]
Charlie Adelson
Of.
- [46:01]
Matt Murphy
Of Dan Markel. And this is one of those. This case is. Is so disturbing on so many different levels, but that Donna Adelson is accused essentially of orchestrating this whole thing because she wanted her grandkids to move from Tallahassee to south Florida. And there's apparently extensive parental alienation going on From Adelson, from Mrs. Adelson regarding her ex son in law and the, you know, and I'm sure you've seen this too, guys in the Homsin unit in Orange County. I cannot tell you how many murders began in family court and wound up with somebody getting killed later that night or two days later after an adverse family court ruling. And that's exactly what they had here. So Charlie, the voice we just heard, no more a presumed innocent. He was convicted of this. And it's going to be very interesting to see what happens to Donna Adelson next because the evidence is pretty bad, pretty damning against her.
- [46:56]
Arthur Aidala
Jury selection is coming up. Mr. Holloway, you. You ready to pick a jury for your client?
- [47:02]
Yeah. You know, I think you could almost take the first 12 if you're the prosecutor and put them in the box. Because the evidence, in my opinion, certainly the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. And circumstantial evidence, by the way, could be some of the most powerful evidence in a criminal case. A lot of people serving life in prison on powerful circumstantial evidence. Among that in this case is, you know, Charlie, his words. When he's talking to who he believes is the brother of the hitman, he doesn't say, look, we don't know who you're talking about. My mom doesn't know who you're talking about. Leave us alone. Why are you bothering us? He doesn't do that. He's like, hey, let me get back to you. Right? Like as if he knows exactly what's going on. And that statement, that recording and all of that interaction that stems directly from the bump is going to be a big part of what I think is going to bring Donna Adelen down. Right.
- [47:53]
Well, gentlemen, we certainly covered a lot of ground today, and I found it very fascinating. You know, Matthew, your career as a prosecutor is storied and having you here is fantastic. And Mr. Holloway, well, obviously your opinion counts because you're everywhere all the time. So thank you both of you for joining me. And thanks everyone for joining us today at MK True Crime. I'm Arthur Idalla and remember to like and subscribe on YouTube and follow us wherever you get your podcast. We're MKTrueCrime on all social platforms and find all the links you need@mktruecrime.com See you Wednesday.
- [48:34]
Unknown
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