Karmelo Anthony Judge Speaks and Lessons from a Life Sentence, with Damon West

Summary

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MK True Crime – Positively Legal

Episode: "Carmelo Anthony Judge Speaks and Lessons from a Life Sentence, with Damon West"
Release Date: June 17, 2026
Hosts: Mark Eiglar (criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor), Jonna Spielberg (criminal defense attorney)
Guest: Damon West (author, speaker, former inmate)

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Episode Overview

This episode features two major segments:

1. Legal analysis and commentary on the aftermath of the high-profile Carmelo Anthony case, primarily focusing on the rare public interview by presiding Judge John Roach.
2. A powerful and intimate interview with Damon West, a former college quarterback who received a life sentence, transformed his life in prison, and now inspires others as a speaker and author.

The hosts also share listener feedback and indulge in candid, humorous off-the-record rants to close out the episode.

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1. Key Discussion: Carmelo Anthony Trial and Judge Roach’s Interview

(Starts ~08:37)

Context

• Carmelo Anthony’s trial remains at the center of public debate, even after sentencing.
• Unique development: Judge John Roach, who presided over the trial, gave a rare media interview post-verdict—a "Halley's Comet moment" (09:14).

Cameras in the Courtroom Debate

• Judge Roach’s Rationale (11:21–11:59):

  "Sometimes I think maybe I should have at least the audio streamed or something so people could hear it. But at the end of the day, I don't think no matter what, people are going to distort whatever happens or whatever they hear into their own agenda. And so what's the point?"
  —Judge Roach at [11:45]

• Hosts’ Take:

  • Mark appreciates the judge’s candor, highlighting pros/cons of cameras and noting Judge Roach’s willingness to admit reconsideration, especially for future cases ([12:08]–[12:20]).
  • Jonna argues public access (audio/video) is vital for transparency, referencing the positive impact of police body-worn cameras in New York as a parallel ([13:26]–[14:35]):

    "To be able to see as the public...what was and what was not evidence is invaluable. It should be the law."
    —Jonna Spielberg at [14:31]

• Consensus:
  Both hosts strongly advocate for more transparency via cameras/audio in court to reduce misinformation and restore trust.

Rumors and Social Media Misinformation

• Accusations of Bias:
  Rumors circulated that Judge Roach had personal ties to the victim’s family.

  "I wouldn't know Mr. Metcalf, prior to this trial, if he walked up me and said, hello...Never have."
  —Judge Roach at [15:09]

• AI and Media Deception (16:06):
  The hosts discuss the tsunami of AI-generated images and false courtroom reports:

  "That is one of the biggest problems with AI...they're such good fakes."
  —Jonna at [16:06]

  Judge Roach expresses frustration at fake news:

  "If you're going to call yourself the press...you should be telling the truth."
  —Judge Roach at [16:51]

Jury Diversity Concerns

• Allegation: Carmelo Anthony was denied a jury of his peers—no African Americans on the panel.

• Jonna explains the Batson challenge and the Supreme Court’s standards:

  "...as long as they were not discharged unlawfully, as long as they were not discharged for that reason to create the homogeneous jury, then it's okay."
  —Jonna at [20:12]

• Mark elaborates on the specifics from the trial:

  "If true, is that a race neutral reason?...If they are not, then okay, they're done."
  —Mark at [21:20]

Texas Legal System Insights

• Mark shares a notorious example (the Berdine case) reflecting Texas’s strict approach on appeals:

  "His attorney fell asleep in affirming the conviction...the Texas appellate court said, yeah, but the defense attorney didn't sleep during important parts..."
  —Mark at [22:51]

GoFundMe Ethical Debate

• Jonna hints at frustration with the fundraising surrounding the case:

  "I have a whole issue with the entire GoFundMe platform...I'll be allowed to rant about it at a future show."
  —Jonna at [24:09]

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2. Special Guest Interview: Damon West’s Redemption Story

(Begins ~26:17)

Damon’s Background

• Once a star athlete, Division 1 quarterback, grew up in Texas with solid family support.
• Suffered childhood trauma—molested by a babysitter at age 9 ([28:03]); led to early/adult behaviors, substance abuse (alcohol, marijuana) as a pre-teen.

Downward Spiral

• Lost football career to injury at age 20 ([35:01]), escalated to hard drugs—cocaine, later methamphetamine:

  "Meth is the most evil, most destructive, most addictive drug ever created by man. I smoked it one time, instantly hooked like that."
  —Damon West at [37:36]

• Became addicted, homeless, a serial burglar (known as the "Uptown Burglar" in Dallas).

  "It doesn't mean my crimes weren't serious, because a burglary is a very serious crime. When I broke into people's homes, I didn't just steal their property. I stole my victim's sense of security."
  —Damon at [39:06]

Trial and Sentencing

• Sentenced to 65 years in Texas—a de facto life sentence.
• Damon believes jury was motivated by anger at his squandered privilege, not fear (42:48).

Prison Experience and Transformation

• Key Messenger: "Be a Coffee Bean"
  Gained wisdom from a fellow inmate, Mohammed, who told him:

  "You can be like a carrot...an egg...or a coffee bean that changes the water to coffee. The coffee bean's the only thing that will change the water. It's the change agent."
  —Damon West via Muhammad at [44:08]

• Damon embraced the coffee bean metaphor, aiming to positively change his environment instead of letting it change him.

• His transformation recognized by the parole board ([46:58]):

  "You didn't just change yourself. You changed the entire prison...If you could be remembered for being anything...tell me what that one thing would be, but give it to me in just one word." "Useful. I just want to be useful again."
  —Damon West at [47:10]

• Released on parole in 2015 after serving approximately seven years; remains on parole until 2073 (27:14).

Insights, Reflections, and Notable Quotes

• On living amends:

  "...the harm that it would cause me to make an amends to any of my victims is...I would go back to prison because it's another felony if you apologize to a victim."
  —Damon West at [39:58]

• On surrender and redemption:

  "...you have to surrender to God...the thing about Christ...he didn't care where you've been and what you've done. When you come back...he's going to help you out."
  —Damon at [45:45]

• On what sets him apart after prison:

  "Some of the best stories are the coming home stories...But you have to have a little luck along the way...messengers won't always look like you...but that's why they're the messenger..."
  —Damon at [42:47]

• Damon’s work today:

  • Speaker, author, motivator—website: damonwest.org, social: @DamonWest7

Memorable Moment & Call to Action

• The "coffee bean" lesson became a viral moment, prompting the hosts to ask:

  "Are you an egg, a carrot, or a coffee bean?"
  —Introduced by Mark[01:57], brought fully to life by Damon’s narrative

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3. Listener Feedback / Jury Controversy Segment

(Starts ~50:15)

Scott Peterson Case Reactions

• The hosts read strong listener mail about their recent debate regarding the Scott Peterson verdict ([51:00]–[54:15]).
• Jonna welcomes dissent and highlights the value in public scrutiny and honest disagreement:

  "There are going to be plenty of times where I'm going to make people bring it on. We're not going to see eye to eye. That's part of the fun from this camera and that side of the camera."
  —Jonna at [54:15]

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4. Candid—Off the Record: Humorous and Personal Riffs

Mark’s Take: Red Flags in True Crime

(Begins ~54:34)

• Jokes with his wife about learning from "Dateline" and true crime docs on how not to become a victim.
• Observes that signs of danger are often missed in relationships depicted in true crime situations.

Jonna’s “How Not to Drive Like an Asshole” Rant

(Begins ~57:52)

• Tongue-in-cheek manual excerpt on road rage, Subaru stereotypes, and the etiquette of left turns on busy roads.
• Classic line:

  "Politics isn't the only place where the left is a problem. Just don't do it. This has been another chapter from the 'How Not to Drive like an Asshole' handbook..."
  —Jonna at [60:40]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Judge Roach’s Reflection on Cameras in Court:

  "...maybe I should have at least the audio streamed...at the end, people are going to distort whatever happens...So what's the point?" ([11:45])

• Jonna on Public Access and Cameras:

  "It should be the law...to see what was and what was not evidence is invaluable." ([14:31])

• Damon West’s “Coffee Bean” lesson:

  "You can be a carrot...an egg...or a coffee bean...it's the change agent." ([44:08])

• Damon West on making living amends:

  "So the harm that it would cause me to make an amends to any of my victims is...I would go back to prison..." ([39:58])

• Mark on the Texas legal system:

  "That's Texas for you. It took the feds ultimately to find that due process was violated, but not Texas. Crazy, Jonna. That's why he ain't going anywhere..." ([22:51])

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Episode Flow and Tone

• Language: Conversational, sharp legal analysis balanced with personal warmth and humor.
• The hosts are both knowledgeable and self-deprecating; segments move briskly but allow for deep dives, especially on sensitive topics (trauma, justice, redemption).
• Damon West’s portion is especially affecting—he is honest, humble, and inspirational while the hosts express real admiration.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode delivers a compelling blend of true crime analysis and redemptive storytelling. The candid post-trial interview from Carmelo Anthony’s judge, dissected by seasoned legal minds, exposes ongoing debates over transparency, misinformation, and systemic biases in the justice system. Damon West’s tale shifts the focus—his journey from promising athlete to life-sentenced inmate to inspirational “coffee bean” speaks to the possibility of profound human transformation and the ongoing challenges of reentering society. The hosts close with humor and listener engagement, keeping the tone balanced and dynamic throughout.

For further info on Damon West:
Website: damonwest.org
Social: @DamonWest7

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Transcript

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[Mark Eiglar]

Hello and welcome to Positively Legal. I'm one of your hosts, Mark Eiglar. Hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. I am a criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, adjunct law professor, author, according to my bio. And I'm proud to announce the founder of the Jona Spielber fan club.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Oh, I have a fan club.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yes. So far there's only one person in it that would be me. But we're growing.

[Jonna Spielberg]

We're growing. That's okay, right? That's okay. You know what? We just got to keep it free and then we'll get more if we charge. Forget about it.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yeah, nobody's going to pay. Yeah, that's correct.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yeah. But okay, so as you already know, I'm Jonna Spielberg, criminal defense attorney. I am founder of Johnna Spielberg law, and I have a new fan club.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yes.

[Jonna Spielberg]

But if we're going to get serious for a minute, the gag order on the Carmelo Anthony trial has been lifted and the presiding judge is speaking, speaking out. You guys are not going to want to miss our discussion about this interview. It was amazing.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yeah, it was. And also my question to all of you and you, Jonna, is are you an egg, Are you a carrot, or are you a coffee bean? I know that sounds absolutely silly, but it is a question that you will hear. Our guest answer was something that he pulled from his time in prison. This guy's been through a lot of trauma and, and now he's a best selling author and we are so grateful to have him on the show.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Really, really inspiring story. So you're going to want to stay tuned for that.

[Mark Eiglar]

That's right. But one of my favorite parts of the show. It's time for happy hour. Yeah. All right. Jonna, what the Heck was your day, like, so far?

[Jonna Spielberg]

So I'm happy to be out of the car today. You know, I know you guys in your highfalutin jurisdictions, like Miami and Palm beach, right? You guys have it easy. I am in the Hudson Valley in New York, which is a lovely section of New York. It's a bedroom community for Manhattan. But all of our courts are spread out over five or six counties. And I had the dubious distinction today to be in basically all of them, and I had to be in all of them at the same time. I needed a helicopter. I told one of the judges that today who didn't give me an adjournment without me having to drive the 40 miles to the courthouse just to get into German. Anyway, so it was just, you know, it's just a long, grueling day. But I do enjoy. When you're in the car, like, what do you do? Do you listen to stuff? Do you listen to books? Do you listen to Megan? What do you do? I got to listen to Megan today.

[Mark Eiglar]

If I'm you, I lament as to why these judges don't do Zoom. That would occupy probably 99% of my time in the car.

[Angie Hicks]

If.

[Mark Eiglar]

If I'm you, we sit with nothing down below. Strike that. Most people don't have anything down below here. It's very.

[Jonna Spielberg]

You wear pants. You wear pants.

[Mark Eiglar]

When you do, what are pants? I don't know what that is. At a minimum, pants, maybe. And then we just say, hi, judge, need a continuance, need more time to work on this case. Goodbye, peace. And then that's it. And I turn to my wife. I go. That back in the day before, COVID would have cost me an hour and a half, two hours of time to go and do that. Now I. Zoom, I. I'm in and out, and you, my friend, are driving all over the damn place. But back to your question. Podcasts, I like, smart lists. I like. I just try to stay away from politics. Everybody's so angry.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I can't take it.

[Angie Hicks]

I don't like it.

[Jonna Spielberg]

And music, yeah, you can get a little downtime in the car. It's like a little mini vacation. But I gotta tell you, it's just. You're right. I mean, it takes too much. That's too much wasted time. Time that I can't be talking to clients. Time that I can't be working on the stuff that we lawyers do. But I gotta. You know, as much as Zoom has sort of ruled the day, I prefer to be in person. If you're making an Argument. You can make it much more effectively, I think, when you are face to face and you can pound on a table and you can point and you can squint and you can jump up and down. Tell me I'm wrong.

[Mark Eiglar]

No, 100% right. And it happened to me today. I agree with you. I know I keep talking about Antonio Brown, but it's because we keep having. Having to get permission for him to leave the jurisdiction to go do events or to go do training of a Philadelphia Eagles player like we did recently. And I think the judge and the prosecutors are getting a little upset.

[Jonna Spielberg]

They gotta be sick of you. They gotta be sick of you.

[Mark Eiglar]

Oh, no, they are. And they're making it extremely clear they don't like it. So today we had a hearing. He needs to go to Turks and Caicos. So now we're going international. We're upping the ante. They want him in jail, the prosecutors do. And now I'm trying to get them to do this public appearance there. And the prosecutor wasn't having any of it. And the judge, who's in a major trial right now, dismissed us and said, you gotta come back tomorrow. And the problem is, every time she speaks, I don't hear the first few seconds of it for some reason. So I'm like, cutting her off or I don't hear her, and then she gets frustrated. If that wouldn't happen in person. But I'm not driving 45 minutes to an hour each way to get down to the Miami courthouse from Fort Lauderdale.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Thank you. But wait a minute. Your client has big bucks, so he can pay you. I mean, you know, like, hey, you know, big bucks.

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

He's in.

[Mark Eiglar]

He's in bankruptcy. I'm just telling you.

[Angie Hicks]

No, but.

[Jonna Spielberg]

But bankruptcy doesn't really mean bankruptcy when you have big bucks.

[Mark Eiglar]

Why are we talking like this?

[Commercial Announcer]

What are we doing?

[Jonna Spielberg]

Because we're whispering so nobody can hear us.

[Angie Hicks]

Got it.

[Mark Eiglar]

So they're not recording right now.

[Jonna Spielberg]

The prosecution must hate you on that case, because you know what they're saying? If I'm prosecuting him, I'm going to be like Turks and Caicos for work. Come on. Come on.

[Mark Eiglar]

Right.

[Jonna Spielberg]

No, he shouldn't be enjoying himself.

[Mark Eiglar]

I hear you and I get it. But he's got many children. He just had another one. He needs to support all of them. And he can't go back to the NFL, not that he would like to. And singing, rapping, public appearances, that's his job. So he's not being treated differently than other people. Other people have jobs in Their hometown. Usually this is where his job takes him, wherever that might be. So I've got to make that clear to the judge. And you're making me think about going there in person, but I won't. I'll probably just do it on Zoom.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I think you got to go in person. You make the trip, you make the trip, right?

[DSW/Mathnasium/Text Now Advertiser]

Okay.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I think so.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yeah.

[Jonna Spielberg]

So. Okay. So that's that. Now I'm glad we solved that problem.

[Mark Eiglar]

It's all been solved. It's been resolved. Thank you. Now there will be peace in the Middle East. Thank you. That's good.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yeah. Speaking of problems.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yeah?

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[Damon West]

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[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

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[Damon West]

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[Mark Eiglar]

Where are we Segwaying? What kind of problems are we going to talk about?

[Jonna Spielberg]

Carmelo Anthony. Okay, we're still talking about him. Yes, yes, we're still talking about him. Usually when somebody is tried and convicted and sentenced, the fanfare dies down. Fanfare is probably not the right word here, but in this case it's not. The rumble gets almost louder because we find out things that I don't know are keeping the conversation going. And one such thing, which I thoroughly enjoyed, which we rarely see, the judge that presided over the case came out and did an interview.

[Mark Eiglar]

Right.

[Jonna Spielberg]

About this. You don't see that? No, that's a Haley's comment moment.

[Mark Eiglar]

And I studied, I did watch it and I studied every word to see if he was going to say one thing that would help the defense, maybe get leg up on appeal. Yeah. And this guy is so good, he Was Judge Roach the Roach?

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yes, John Roach. He was very, very smooth. And I am. If we ever had him on this show, I would want to ask him what compelled him to say yes to an interview? Because it's just. He didn't have to. It's very rare. I know that he was kind of the subject of a little bit of accusation that maybe he knew the victim's family and that kind of thing. And he covered that and he did it very well. So why.

[Mark Eiglar]

So ask me the question. Let's pretend I'm him. I know what his answer would be. Are you ready? Go.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Go. Okay. Judge Roach.

[Angie Hicks]

Yes, ma'.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Am.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yes, ma'.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Am.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yes, ma'.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Am. Why would you say yes to a media interview following one of the most controversial trials of probably your career? Why would you say yes to that?

[Mark Eiglar]

It's called disclosure, you dickhead. I think that that's it. I think. I know. There you go. Your famous line.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I think I say it better.

[Mark Eiglar]

Of course you do. But I think. I think he's, you know, he's got it too. I think that he wanted people like us to hear from him and, and get the answers that we needed. Right. Because there's been a lot of allegations. Like, let's start with cameras in the courtroom.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Right. That's why we have questions.

[Mark Eiglar]

Right.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Have any.

[Mark Eiglar]

Right.

[Damon West]

Why?

[Mark Eiglar]

And the question is what? I would love to ask them, which has been asked. So we're going to play the response is, why didn't you? And would your position change? Now, looking back, having seen all the. The misrepresentations and the lies and the distortions from people claiming to be in the courtroom when they weren't. Let's play the first SOT and let's go from there. What do you think?

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yep.

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

Well, tell you, I got some reports of some things that were coming out of this courtroom, and I wondered to myself, were they even in the same courtroom that I was? It's that bad. And I think that's tragic because I think really if you just listen to the case based upon the facts, you'd understand it so much better.

[Damon West]

Do you think it reinforced your. Your decision to not have cameras or streaming inside this sort of.

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

I will tell you this, sometimes I think maybe I should have at least the audio streamed or something so people could hear it. But at the end of the day, I don't think no matter what, people are going to distort whatever happens or whatever they hear into their own agenda. And so what's the point?

[Mark Eiglar]

So on one side of the scale you have what attorneys playing for the cameras. Right.

[Jonna Spielberg]

The bad side was his reason. Right.

[Mark Eiglar]

Turning it into a circus. But he, it's nice to hear him candidly admit that on balance now looking back, at least an audio, so at least we can hear what's going down. Don't you agree, Jon?

[Jonna Spielberg]

I think he's coming to the end of his career on the bench. Right. I think if he had to do this over, knowing now what he knows, he would have cameras in the courtroom, not just audio, knowing that people can literally made up things and touted them as facts. And part of it was not very flattering to him. Right. So that's what I feel what prompted him to come out was that he needed to clear, clear the air in terms of any wrongdoing. And that might be too strong a word that people were assigning to him

[Mark Eiglar]

other than attorneys playing it up for the cameras and it kind of becoming more of a circus, one would argue. Although quite frankly without cameras it became that. What other reasons are left for not having cameras or at least audio so the public can hear.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Listen, I know that this is a little bit apples and oranges, but I gotta tell you something. In New York, so we historically don't have cameras in the courtroom.

[Mark Eiglar]

I'm aware.

[Jonna Spielberg]

But the one positive thing with the new Nobel laws and things that came a few years back from the other governor was that now all cops wear body worn camera.

[Mark Eiglar]

Right?

[Jonna Spielberg]

Mark, Mark, that has changed. Change the game now. When a client comes in and talks to you and says this happened, that happened, this happened. Now I get to see that this happened, that happened, but this didn't happen. And you get to see it as if you were there, right? You're on the chest of the police officer. When you have a camera in a courtroom, I don't care. It doesn't bother me that attorneys might act a little differently because they want their 15 minutes, you know, you know how they're going to act differently. They're going to come to court looking good, okay? That's the least you're going to do. And maybe, maybe you're going to do a little more of your homework and not get lazy and tout the right laws and make those arguments, that's okay with me. But to be able to see as the public, because it's a public forum, to be able to see with your own eyes in these high profile cases what was and what was not evidence is invaluable. It should be the law.

[Mark Eiglar]

I think that we agree on that.

[Jonna Spielberg]

New York, the body worm Cameras are. It should be the law.

[Mark Eiglar]

All right, so on Positively Legal, we both. Not because we choose to agree with each other, independently, we have chosen to agree. Okay. Another issue that he addresses in this interview, we kept hearing that he had some relationship, this prior relationship with the Metcalfe, the victim's family.

[Damon West]

I don't know.

[Mark Eiglar]

I'm thinking small town. Maybe there's some truth to it.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Could be.

[Mark Eiglar]

Let's play SOT2 and let's hear what he said.

[Damon West]

So I have to ask, do you have a personal relationship with the Metcalfe?

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

I wouldn't know. Mr. Metcalf, prior to this trial, if he walked up me and said, hello, I don't know the Metcalfs. I sympathize with the Metcalfe and what they've been through and all, but I don't know them personally. Never have.

[Damon West]

So these AI images emerging of you and. And them at a party or drinking

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

together, and that's the problem with social media, and you can't tell what's true and what's not true.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yeah. I mean, total circus, even without cameras in the courtroom, people making up stuff. Right, right. We don't get to see what kind of. I didn't know who this judge was until after. Through this interview. Right, right. I'm thinking, oh, maybe he goes bowling with the guy. I don't know.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Well, and. Well, no, you did know, because if he did, then he would have recused himself from this.

[Mark Eiglar]

I'm not so sure. I don't know. I don't know. You hear stuff. That's the point. People make stuff up. And the AI, you can't even believe. Picture's not worth a thousand words anymore. Right.

[Jonna Spielberg]

No, that. That is one of the biggest problems with AI, that when it's. There's such good fakes that it does. If you're not careful, people are going to believe it and then they won't believe that what they're seeing is actually AI after you pointed out. So AI has really change the landscape, so to speak, the legal landscape. And we're just scratching the surface of the crap that AI is going to be able to. To do.

[Mark Eiglar]

Agreed. So there were many people who claimed that they were inside the courtroom when clearly they weren't. And the judge addresses that in SOT3. Let's hear that. We'll get your feedback on that. The AI images of people claiming to be inside this courtroom.

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

Yeah, that. That ticked me off a little bit. Because if you're going to call yourself the press, then, and people are going to depend on you to tell them what's going on in this courtroom. You should be telling the truth. And so Mr. Stoller, a public information officer brought it to my attention that some news outlets were posting photos saying from inside the courtroom. And it wasn't my courtroom, it wasn't the witness, it wasn't their testimony. And that's tragic.

[Mark Eiglar]

There are tons of knuckleheads claiming to be media outlets. Right? Anyone with a camera technically falls under the bill ow rights. That's what they always cite. Who gave me permission to video me Bill owrites, you know. And so I think that more than ever, the judge has to reconsider. Judges need to reconsider their position on allowing cameras in there because there's going to be more dissemination of erroneous material concerning a trial like the judge had to address in that interview.

[Jonna Spielberg]

So. Well, now you're making the counter argument, right? We're saying you and I are both on the same page. Hey, we should have cameras in the courtroom. But you're now making the point that, well, wait a minute. The more camera feed we have, the more availability to fake images and things that may or may not have happened. Using AI, Is that what you're saying?

[Mark Eiglar]

No, my argument is people are going to fake it no matter what. They're going to do that and they're going to act, you know, to get the clicks like they were there. At least when you're seeing it with your own eyes, you can immediately dismiss a lot of the images that people are putting up because you. Wait, that doesn't even match what I'm seeing with my own eyes. That didn't happen. Now, we were going, well, maybe it did happen. Maybe he did know the Metcalfes because somebody's saying so what I'm saying is we need to be the police of what's going on in the courtroom. The only way to do that is see with our own eyes. Like you, we commented about this case a lot and I had to trust media reports. Yeah, I don't want to have to do that. I don't trust all reporters.

[Jonna Spielberg]

No, and that's another good point. Right? So you have to get your information from those that have proven that they're not going to bullshit you online on YouTube, you know that. I mean, not to like, have be a brown noser, but I love getting my news from Megan because we know that her team isn't going to be fooled and that. And I'm not just saying that, that's true. So if you get all your information from only sources that you trust. I don't get anything off the TikTok, except I do buy, like, weird exercise equipment in the middle of the night and. And some.

[Mark Eiglar]

That's understandable. And you found your botox doctor through TikTok, I'm sure.

[Jonna Spielberg]

No, no, he's. He's the real deal.

[Mark Eiglar]

So people are saying, new trial for this guy because there were no blacks on the jury. And you say,

[Jonna Spielberg]

okay, yeah, there were no. There were no African Americans on the jury. However, it was not a homogenous jury. The jury was comprised of people who were white, people who were Asian, people who were Hispanic. There were other nationalities on the jury, although not African American.

[Mark Eiglar]

Last time I checked, that's what he was. So I'm just playing devil's advocate.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I know.

[Mark Eiglar]

So there was no jury of my peers. I was denied due process. And you say.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I say that it's going to be an issue on appeal, but I don't know if it's going to be a successful one because, you know, the Supreme Court has previously ruled if you don't have the. A certain race on the jury, as long as they were not discharged unlawfully, as long as they were not discharged for that reason to create the homogeneous jury, then it's okay. Then it's okay. So I think the appeal, that appellate issue will be met with that argument. And I don't think there's going to be any there. There.

[Mark Eiglar]

I do not disagree with you. It's called a Batson challenge. And so the defense said, I am challenging. You do not have a race neutral reason as to why you're striking those three black jurors. And they said, really? Well, let me give you one. And the state said that their teachers and. And they have students around the age of the testifying witnesses and the defendant, and that might make them more sympathetic. Listen, is that bullshit? Maybe only the prosecutor in his heart knows whether he struck him because of the color of their skin or the reason that he gave. But the law simply looks and says, if true, is that a race neutral reason? And they'll look and see. Were any of the other jurors teachers, white teachers that were accepted on the jury? And if they are not, then okay, they're done. There's no argument there. Right.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Well, I do think it's going to be a losing argument if that is the case. And look, the other thing, which won't come out on appeal. The prosecutor didn't need to cheat to get this conviction. There was, you know, so if anybody's going to Imply that that's why they did it, because they needed to get a leg up. If you look at the facts as we know, which we believe to be true, even though there was no cameras in the courtroom, prosecution didn't need to do that. This Carmelo Anthony had a bit of a sympathy factor because of his age and I'm going to say because of the location where this crime occurred. But that was it. And the jury showed sympathy how they could have sentenced him to 99 years behind bars. They didn't. They, they split the baby. They sentenced him to 30, 35. Right. He can get out as a 50 something year old man. Now. Is that going to be a life worth living? No. Will he have other appellate issues that might fly? Yeah.

[Mark Eiglar]

Well, let's talk about that. Hold on, I want to talk about that. In what state was the conviction? Say it out loud.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Texas.

[Mark Eiglar]

Ah, let's talk about Texas. I always think of the Berdine case. This was a case where Mr. Burdine was given the death penalty, the ultimate sanction. And on appeal, the defense lawyers argued that his attorney fell asleep during the trial. That was uncontroverted. He fell asleep in affirming the conviction. Meaning the appellate court says, no, we're not going to reverse his death sentence sentence. The Texas appellate court said, yeah, but the defense attorney didn't sleep during important parts of the trial. That's Texas for you. It took the feds ultimately to find that due process was violated, but not Texas. Crazy, Jonna. That's why he ain't going anywhere. This guy is not getting a reversal.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Okay, well, it's a very. It's a sad case. It is a sad case. But there was plenty of facts to support the verdict based on what we know.

[Mark Eiglar]

And one more thing, by the way. I know little birdie told me you were upset about the fundraising thing. The family making close to $600,000. Their goal was 1.4 million, but six hundred and something thousand and the kids still got a public defender. Your thoughts on that?

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yeah. And the parents got a new house. I am very upset by that. Not just because of this case. I have a whole issue and hopefully I'll be allowed to rant about it at a future show. I have a whole issue with the entire GoFundMe platform and all those similar, similar things and. But I'm going to save it. And I'm going to tell you exactly why I don't like them. And then I'm going to tell you exactly how we can fix them. Right. For those who are like, oh, what? You're such, you're so heartless. No, I'm not. But I'm going to, I'm going to save that.

[Mark Eiglar]

Okay. All right. All right, cool. Well, that's something we're looking forward to hearing from you because I do want to get your thoughts on that. I'm excited for our next block. In just a moment we're going to talk to a gentleman who has been to hell and back. You talk about trauma, like this guy has been through it. And we're talking like, you know, addiction, abuse, guilty verdict, prison. We're here where his life is today. It really is remarkable. The guy's a best selling author, a keynote speaker. His name is Damon west and he has agreed to come on to Positively Legal in just a moment. Stay tuned.

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[Jonna Spielberg]

Welcome back to positively legal. In 2009, Damon west was convicted of engaging in organized criminal activity and sentenced to, wait for it, 65 years in prison. Basically a life sentence. But he joins us now and he ain't wearing an orange jumpsuit to share his story of how he used his time in prison to turn his life completely around. Damon, welcome to Positively Legal.

[Damon West]

Jonathan, thanks so much. I'm so excited to be here. And you never know, this could be a prison cell I'm coming to you from. But no, I'm just kidding. I'm a quasi free man at this point though. So I'm not coming to you from prison. I'm coming to you from Texas though.

[Mark Eiglar]

Damon, so, so grateful you joined us. You're currently on parole. Let's start at the end and then we're going to start go backwards. Like when you were a kid. You're on parole right now. You're not, you're, you're free, but you're not completely free. Correct?

[Damon West]

Yeah. You're not looking at a free man in front of you. I got a little more time on parole. I'm on parole to the year 2073. So about 47 more years from the day of this recording, I'll still be in parole. What that means is I'm on supervisor release. So every month I see my parole officer, I pee in a cup. I pay my fines, I get travel permits for all the traveling I do. But look, man, every day that I wake up and I'm not in a prison cell is a day I'm going to win, because that's what a.

[Mark Eiglar]

So right away, I see that you and John have something in common. You both pee in a cup. Let's start back to when you were. Let's start back when you were a child. Jonna, please.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I'm sorry.

[Mark Eiglar]

It's about him, not you. Let's start back when you were a child. You had some crazy stuff happen to you. Okay, let's. Let's talk about that.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yeah. Crazy.

[Damon West]

Yeah. I mean, so I. I came from a good family. Two parents in the home. My mom and dad were married 55 years. We were in church every Sunday. So a good Christian home, good student growing up, great athlete. When I was nine, I was molested by a babysitter, a female babysitter. And it's one of those things that I always tell people, like, it wasn't one of those. Those events that turned my life upside down. What it did is it introduced me to other adult behaviors and. And at a very young age. And I got into, you know, that happened at 9. So when I was 10, I started drinking, started smoking cigarettes, started smoking pot. When I was 12. I had a lot of bad belief systems, but, y', all, I could throw a football. And this is Texas. We love high school football in Texas. Friday night lights. I grew up under the Friday night lights of Texas. My dad was a sports writer, very famous sports writer in Texas. And he and Jimmy Johnson were best friends. This is when Jimmy Johnson is the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

So.

[Damon West]

So I would literally play Friday night football in Texas, travel on Saturday to wherever the Cowboys were playing. And on Sundays, I was holding Jimmy's headphone cord on the sidelines. And y', all, this is the. The heyday. This is back in the 90 through 94 years when they were winning Super Bowls and going back to the championship games. And that was what my life looked like growing up. So I had a lot of really neat opportunities in front of me. I got a division One college scholarship to play football at the University of North Texas. And so I had a lot of different things happen to me in life that shaped who I am today. But a lot of it had to do with, you know, football and sports. That was a big thing in my life.

[Mark Eiglar]

But, but I. We're still back when this horrible thing happened to you. There are some. Not me. Whenever you hear about a woman molesting a boy or a teenager, they go, oh, not as bad as if it was reversed. And to that you say what?

[Damon West]

To that I say the, the, the, the difficult side of the molestation thing. It's like, yeah, look, I understand that there is a double standard and we're going to get to my story where I lived in prison around these predators of men that, that, that pred. That preyed on children, right? But what happened in my case is all I can speak to in my case. Imagine it like this. So at 9 years old, this adult woman opens up the big adult door. The adult door that kids can't even get on the side of. You can't reach the handle. It's so big. But once you're on the other side of that door, there's a bunch of other doors that are open because adults have free will. You can make choices all the time. And one of those doors is drinking. One of it's, you know, premarital sex. One of it's, you know, doing drugs. And I would say that in my case, I can speak to my case only once I was on the, the other side of that adult door. I wanted to do more adult behaviors. And what I can tell you for sure that it did do to me is it drastically changed every relationship I got into after that. Y', all. From that point on in my life until I was, I got into a program recovery in prison, I didn't understand that relationships were two way streets. Everything was about me. And, and so I did not have a, a good value system of what a healthy relationship looked like. And every relationship I got into was all about physical because that's what I knew at nine years old. It's physical.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Sorry, Mark, you were, you were nine, you were a baby. Like this is different than the teachers that molest the 16 year old students. We've seen those time and time again. And yeah, those are treated a little bit differently than if you are a male and you're abusing a woman. But at 9, when you say that open the adult door, was there, was this a pattern of behavior? Did she, did she introduce you to other Adult behaviors? How. How did you get so close to that door that you went through to the other side?

[Damon West]

Yeah, that's a good question. She didn't introduce me to any other adult behaviors in the. The molestation didn't last long before my parents found out what was going on. She was the babysitter that my parents had hired. She was 17, 18 year old babysitter my parents had hired. So there were another. There were no other adult behaviors that I tried during that episode, but after I tried that, you know, honestly, John, it's one of those things where, you know, as a boy, a heterosexual boy, when that happened to me, it, that's why I always preface this by saying it wasn't one of those events that you hear of some people's lives that get turned upside down by this. It didn't turn my life upside down in that respect. It turned me on to other behaviors in a world I never even knew existed that no 9 year old should know exists. Right, right. So that was what happened to me is I, I entered into a portal, if you will, of adult behaviors and sexually explicit behavior that honestly I just chased that. That was what I chased through every relationship from the time I was 10 years old all the way till when I was, you know, a man that got out of prison and ended up getting married for the first time.

[Mark Eiglar]

Do you harbor any resentment towards law enforcement or anyone who I was told told you and your family, yeah, you probably won't be able to prove it. So they let it go. She was never prosecuted.

[Damon West]

Not at all. I, I think resentments are very toxic. Resentment, a resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person out. So. And I work a 12 step program recovery. And I got a chance in that my 12 steps to work through all these different things that have happened in life. And I would go back and say this too about law enforcement. This is the 1980s, y'.

[Jonna Spielberg]

All.

[Damon West]

I mean, things were a little different of how we view things in the 1980s. To date myself in this episode, and I'm 50 years old today, this happened back in 1984. And so I think that we're talking about a different time. It's, it's always difficult to look back in time and say, well, somebody should have thought this, this goes on with the founding fathers all the way to where we are right now. And different issues that you see coming up in life. It's hard to place how you feel today on what was going on back then in the zeitgeist, I guess.

[Mark Eiglar]

So you, you get a scholarship, Division 1, playing football. Right. You're probably a star athlete throughout high school, right?

[Damon West]

Oh, yeah.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Right.

[Mark Eiglar]

Based upon how you look now, I'm sure the girls dug you back then, so you had a really successful, happy, I'm thinking, life. Although, were you doing the drugs and alcohol while you were performing on the gridiron or no.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Damon West]

No. Like, I mean, when I started drinking and smoking pot when I was in. You know, in. In junior high, I. I kept it.

[Mark Eiglar]

Never stopped you. Just never done it.

[Damon West]

I mean, I just. But I was such a great and gifted athlete. I had a cannon for right arm. You know, Like I said, this is. This is Texas. We love high school football in Texas. So I was right. Friday night, I might start three years starting quarterback, but I was still drinking and smoking the whole time. But I'll tell you when that changed. I came up to a fork in the road, and this happened on September 21, 1996, against Texas A M. Like, Y', all, I'm 20 years old, starting Division 1 college quarterback, playing against the Aggies. You know what? Little boy growing up in Texas doesn't want to play for them or against them.

[Mark Eiglar]

Right? Right.

[Damon West]

I'm driving my team down the field. First drive of the game, third play of the game, I go down, and it's a career in an injury. College football's over, the dream is gone. And I come up to a fork in the road in life, and. And I didn't handle it very well, but I put more chemicals in, and this is where the bigger stuff comes. The cocaine, the ecstasy, pain pills. But I'm a pretty functional attic, y'. All. I graduated College in. In 1999, move off to Washington, D.C. i worked in the United States Congress, and then I came to. Back to Dallas in 2004 to be a stockbroker for one of the biggest Wall street banks in the World Union bank of Switzerland.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Damon, I have to ask you real quick because I think people will be curious about this. While you were doing so well playing football, but. But you were smoking pot and drinking. Who knew? Did your parents know? Did your friends know? Did your peers know? Did the team know?

[Mark Eiglar]

Who.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Who knew that you were doing that?

[Damon West]

Everybody. I mean, like, it's. You know, the drinking stuff especially. I wouldn't necessarily say everybody knew about smoking weed, but, you know, it's one of the problems with our society. When we see someone that's really good at something like playing a sport, we look the other way to some of the behaviors that they have, and it's not A really good thing. One thing it reinforces in the person that's doing it that they're special or they're different, and they can be entitled to other behaviors that other people are not. Y' all, look, I knew I was untouchable as long as I could play football. You know, life didn't really affect me the same way it affected other people, but it was a drastic turn. I would add to you that after I was no longer the quarterback anymore, after I didn't have that designation by my name, I was lost, Joe. I was just like an. The average person now. And. And rules started applying to me. I. I didn't get in any serious trouble, but I also knew that the trouble that I could get out of by playing sports was no longer protecting me after I got hurt in college football.

[Mark Eiglar]

So there comes a time where you move from those recreational drugs, cocaine, ecstasy, alcohol, and someone introduces you to meth. Would you say that that was when all of a sudden things changed dramatically?

[Damon West]

Yeah, that was the monster. It was 2004. I was working as a broker at UBS in Dallas, and I was asleep at work. One day, this other broker comes in, sees me sleeping. He wakes me up, and he's visibly shaking. He's like, man, wake up, Damon. You can't sleep on this job. The markets are open. You're messing with people's money. They'll fire you if they catch you sleeping here. He said, come on down the parking garage. I've got something that'll pick you up. And so I. I think we're going down to a little cocaine that day, because in 2004, I was into cocaine.

[DSW/Mathnasium/Text Now Advertiser]

But.

[Damon West]

But that day, in his car, he handed me a glass pipe with crystal rocks in it. And I had never seen a glass pipe before. And I pushed back a little bit. What is that? He said, damon, just relax. It's crystal meth. You're going to love this stuff. Truer words than ever been spoken. Meth is the most evil, most destructive, most addictive drug ever created by man. I smoked it one time, instantly hooked like that. And y' all, at that point, I gave away everything for meth. Because that's what addicts do. We give things away, right? An addiction gives up their goals to meet their behaviors. And I gave up my job, my home, my car, my savings account, my family, my tethering to God. It took about 18 months for me to go from working on Wall street to living on the streets. And that's when I became a homeless person. And that's when I became a criminal. And then eventually I put together my own. My own crew of other thieves. We were burglars. We broke into people's homes. And these burglaries go on for about the next three years. In Dallas, from 2005 to 2008, they called them the uptown burglaries. I was known as the uptown burglar. And, y', all, I just want to say something right here. The crime of burglary, even though no one was ever home during the burglaries, because we made sure that no one was ever home. So even though no one was ever home, I never saw my victims. They never saw me. It doesn't mean my crimes weren't serious, because a burglary is a very serious crime. When I broke into people's homes, I didn't just steal their property. I stole my victim's sense of security. And that's something that'll never get back.

[Mark Eiglar]

Agreed. Having been a victim of burglary a number of times, it is significant. No one's contesting that. We were talking before air just a little bit, and you said that you're not allowed to apologize publicly to any of the victims. Tell us why.

[Damon West]

So in Texas, they have a law that says you're not allowed to reach out and apologize to the victim of a crime. If a victim reaches out to you, you're not allowed to make an apology. And this is a precarious situation you're in. And y' all look. Like I said a while ago, I work a 12 step program recovery. Anybody that knows about the 12 steps, the 8th step is when you make a list of all the people you've harmed. The nine steps where you make amends to those people. But they have a caveat in the 12 steps. That's called a living amends. And it's in there. It says, except when to make the amends would cause you or the other party harm.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Except.

[Damon West]

And so the harm that it would cause me to make an amends to any of my victims is that the harm is I would go back to prison because it's another felony if you apologize to a victim. So in the program recovery that I'm in, in AA, you make a living amends and a living amends for the apologies you cannot make. You go out and do good deeds, and you expect nothing in return. So that's what my life has become, A list of living.

[Mark Eiglar]

You got. You got 65 years for your crimes. How did that happen? Although is the answer just Texas?

[Damon West]

So here's what I'VE learned about juries, and this wasn't just going through a jury trial myself. This is like. And we'll get to this. After I got out of prison, I wanted to people take. I wanted people to take me more serious than some ex con that had just got down. So I went back to school and got a master's degree in criminal justice, y'.

[Jonna Spielberg]

All.

[Damon West]

I became a professor at the University of Houston, teaching a class called Prisons in America. Like, I'm the only professor on the planet to teach a prisons class who lived in prison. But here's what I learned about juries both going through my own trial as a. Going in front of a jury and learning about the jury process, getting a masters. When a jury sentences someone to 65 years, which is life in Texas, anything over 60 is life in Texas. When a jury sentences someone to that much time, there are usually one or two reasons or both. One reason is that they're very afraid of the person that's at the defendant's table. The other reason is that they're very mad at that person at the defendant's table. Now, y', all, they weren't afraid of me. I wasn't a violent criminal. I didn't ever hurt anybody. I didn't show any propensity towards violence. But they were mad at me, y'. All. This jury, they heard a trial about this guy named Damon west that grows up, and you've heard the backstory about how I grew up ahead at all growing up. But in the jury's eyes, they're looking at this guy like you could have done anything you wanted to in life. You had everything in front of you, but you chose to go out and be this serial burglar and have a. You know, be the mastermind of a crim Of a crime ring. But the reality is, y', all, I didn't choose that. I was a. I was. I'm an addict. And. And in my addiction, I made some very poor choices, did some very bad things, but I would never have chosen to go out and do that. I did a lot of these things in my addiction, and I'm not trying to make excuses or pull.

[Mark Eiglar]

There's a difference.

[Damon West]

Nobody.

[Mark Eiglar]

But you're not in your right frame of mind. Yeah.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Damon, what. What sets you apart? What makes you different? Because here you have an amazing story. You should still technically be behind bars. You're not. But people who have followed similar path, and maybe they didn't start out as. As fortunate as you in terms of their athletic ability, et cetera, they get out. They're not speaking, they're not guests on our show. They're not writing books. How, what makes you different and how do you inspire other people? Can other people do what you are doing?

[Damon West]

I think that there's a few things at play here, and it's a very good question. One, I had a lot of support when I was in prison, and we'll get to that. My mom and my dad visited me over 150 times over the next seven years. Like, I got to, I got to visit almost every other weekend. And no one gets that kind of support in prison. So I always felt like I had one foot in, one foot out. My mom, right after the trial is over, my mom makes me promise two things. She makes me promise I won't get to any gangs in there and I won't get any tattoos in there. So that's why you don't see any ink on me. She said, no gangs, no tattoos. She said, come back as the man we raised or don't come back at all. And it was this directive, this line in the sand that my mom drew. And, you know, I think some of the best stories are the coming home stories. The movie Odysseus is coming out with, with Matt Damon, right? It's, it's, it's a coming home journey. He's got to make his way back home. He's on this odyssey to get back home. But we love a good coming home story, a good redemption story. And that's what my life has become. But the reality is, is that you got to have a little luck along the way. And I think the little Lux along the way sometimes comes in the form of messengers. And y', all, here's what I've learned about messengers. Messengers won't always look like you. They won't come from the same background as you. But that's why they're the messenger, right? Because they bring a different message from a different place. So one of the big messengers of my story is a guy that I meet in Dallas county jail. I just got sentenced to life in prison. I'm waiting for the prison bus to come pick me up to go serve a life sentence. And this older black Muslim guy named Muhammad. Now, Muhammad's very different than me. He's black, I'm white. He's a Muslim, I'm a Christian. He's older, I'm younger. He's a career criminal. I'm a first time offender. We don't have a lot in common. But every day Muhammad comes to check on me. And so this one morning, he comes up and he's got a cup of coffee in his hands, had a smile on his face. He said, wes, I've been watching you. I've been watching how you're dealing with these knuckleheads and these dummies talking about you had to get into a gang. He said, don't listen to these fools. He said, do you want to keep the promise you made to your mom and your dad? I was like, yeah, Muhammad, I do, but I don't know how. So he said, let me tell you what prison's really going to be like. And. And this is what Muhammad really tells me. He's like, prison is about, is all about race. He said, everything in prison is about your race. And that's how everybody keeps the peace in prison. Everybody breaks off in their own racial group in a prison. That's how prisons are divided by race. And every race wants it this way. So he's telling me, you're going to fight the white gangs first because you're white. If you survive the white gangs, you fight the black gangs next. And. And the white gangs send the black gangs after you. And everybody's going to try to push you to get with your own race, where you belong. He said, but if you survive all that, and you can survive all that, you earn the right to walk the yard alone. And he told me the truth about fighting. He told me, you don't have to win all your fights, but you do have to fight all your fights. And then he shared with me one of the most important lessons I've ever learned. He told me to imagine prison as a pot of boiling water. And he said, you have three choices in a pot of boiling water. You can be like a carrot that goes in hard but becomes softer by the water, an egg that becomes hardened in the water, or a coffee bean that changes the water to coffee. He said, the coffee beans, the only thing that will change the water, it's the change agent. He said it. The power is inside the coffee bean to change the water around the coffee bean. He said, that's what you're going to have to become. You're going to become a change edge. You have to be a coffee bean. And the last words he ever said to me before I went to prison or be a coffee bean. So I. I think it's a. A combination of all these different things that are happening in life, but overall, I think it's when you surrender to God, because I did. I finally had to surrender to Christ. And like Once I got sentenced to life in prison, I was done. And I started praying to God again. You know, I hadn't talked to God in years, but I'm asking for help. And, you know, that's the thing about Christ. You know, he didn't care where you've been and what you've done. When you come back and you're there, he's going to help you out. But you have to be receptive to that. You have to surrender to that. And so I think it was a big part of. I had to finally surrender.

[Mark Eiglar]

I still have probably an hour of questions, and we're out of time. Like, I'm. I'm. I'm dying, you know, very quickly. Like, how'd you get out of prison? Really quick, you got 65 years. How'd you get out? People are going to want to know.

[Damon West]

So I was able. I went to prison. I fought for my life for two months. Most brutal thing I've ever been through my life. And after that, I started transforming the water that was prison, the hot pot of boiling water, into a pot of coffee. 2015, the parole board saw the changes that was going on, and the parole board came to to interview me and said, listen, you know, you didn't just change yourself. You changed the entire prison. Got one question for you. This determines whether or not you go home or you stay in prison. She said, if you could be remembered for being anything in life, anything at all, she said, tell me what that one thing would be, but give it to me in just one word. My one word that day in 2015 was useful. I said, ma', am, I just want to be useful again. And I could be useful in a prison or I could be useful in the free world. And on November 16, 2015, I walked over to Texas prison. Again, I'm on parole for a little bit longer, right? But y', all, like I said, every day that I wake up, my feet on the cold concrete floor of a prison cell, the damn right.

[Mark Eiglar]

Every. Every day I don't have kidney stones is a good day. That's all I can relate it to. But again, that was. That was just phenomenal. Oh, my goodness, what a story.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Such an inspirational story. We need. So this is going to come out wrong. I want to say we need more people like you, but I don't mean we need more people to go to prison, right? But people who are in there and who get a second chance and come out should really learn from you. And before we let you go, what is the best way for people to do that. Where should they find. You have a website, you have a program, you have books where they get more information about you.

[Damon West]

My website has everything on it. Damonwest.org My social media is @Damon West7. And y', all, really, man, that's my life. My life is out there trying to encourage people to be a Coffee bean as a speaker. I go around sharing the story and the message of the Coffee bean because I'm a storyteller, y', all, and human beings.

[Mark Eiglar]

I'm gonna follow you, Damon. I, I can't wait to hear more from you.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna follow him right now. Thank you so much for joining us today. We love you.

[Damon West]

Yeah. Let's do a round two sometimes.

[Mark Eiglar]

I would love it. I would love it. I have a lot more questions. I want to know everything, your prison time and what that was really like, how you had to fight off all those gangs. But another time, another time, definitely around

[Jonna Spielberg]

2 will be in our future. So thank you so much. And up next, Mark and I go off the record. You're not going to want to go anywhere. Stay tuned.

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[Angie Hicks]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie. One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. For decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners owners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your [e-mail].

[Mark Eiglar]

Welcome back to Positively Legal. It's time for John and I to go on off the record. But before we do that, last week we talked about Scott Peterson who was convicted of killing his wife Lacy, an unborn child. And we went kind of point, counterpoint. Did the jury get it wrong? And Jonna said what? The jury got it.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I said the jury got it

[Mark Eiglar]

right. Fonzie. Fonzie. You could say it wrong.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I think the jury got it wrong. Right.

[Mark Eiglar]

And there was some feedback. We got some mail and the mail seemed to be not necessarily, we'll say on your side, Jona.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Right.

[Mark Eiglar]

From Mary. She wrote, I am shocked, shocked in all caps that anyone could ever defend Scott Peterson, and I think he is innocent. The evidence used, quotes you say was not given to the jury about other possible suspects has been investigated, and none of these other potential subjects were found to have anything to do with this crime. Scott literally used his unborn child's room as a dumping ground within a few weeks after his pregnant wife went missing, showing he never, never capitalized, expected to have this baby or for his wife to come back. He did not participate in the searches because he knew she was dead. He is guilty. And I'm so perplexed that Jona thinks otherwise. Your reaction, Jona?

[Jonna Spielberg]

Okay, well, I. Mary, thank you. Hang on. I'm just going to get a few band aids, right? I just. Just going to cover the.

[Mark Eiglar]

You can handle the truth. You can handle it.

[Jonna Spielberg]

No, Mary, I. So, Mary, I appreciate that. And that's part of. We kind of did this impromptu segment. Did the jury get it wrong? And I appreciate the feedback from people who paid attention to the trial. Listen, this trial wasn't yesterday, guys. It was a long time ago. People paid attention. And you want to call me out and show me where I'm wrong, I am all ears.

[Mark Eiglar]

All jurors agree with you, Mary, except for that guy. Garagos does not.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yeah. Did he fall asleep during the trial? No.

[Mark Eiglar]

It wouldn't have mattered. It wouldn't have mattered. Although, maybe in California, they think that you. You shouldn't fall asleep. All right, But. But. But that's not it, John. There were many more letters. Let me just pick one more. Okay. This is from Beth, not my wife, although she's named.

[Jonna Spielberg]

How do we know?

[Mark Eiglar]

Okay, having listened to Janna's reasoning, we know because my wife wouldn't watch the show. It's horrible. I wish she'd watch one of these. Anyway, having listened to Jona's reasoning behind her belief that Scott Peterson was wrongly convicted on the June 10 episode of Positively Legal, please let me offer a salient fact that may change her mind. I grew up in Modesto, California, and returned regularly to visit my family. We were an active bunch and spent a lot of time in the mountains and on the water. In other words, I know the area well, Beth wrote, and where the fishing is. It makes absolutely no sense to drive all the way to Modesto to Berkeley Marina on Christmas to go fishing. It's far and the fishing isn't very good. Plus the water is pretty nasty due to the industry around there. I call bullshit. Love all the shows on mk, especially Johnna's hilarious monologues, which you're about to Give. If she's ever tired of the courtroom, she should be a comedian. So you can't hate Beth, too.

[Jonna Spielberg]

No, no, no, no. Listen, I guess I made a lot of our viewers mad. I am sorry for that. And I know you should. You be a local color and I. And I appreciate it. And there are going to be plenty of times where I'm going to make people bring it on. We're not going to see eye to eye. That's part of the fun from this camera and that side of the camera.

[Mark Eiglar]

That's right. No apologies. Just be yourself, be authentic. That's what we do on the show. And that's why I have a fan club. Jonna Spielberg fan club.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Well, that's why you started it. I have one member to my fan club.

[Mark Eiglar]

That's me. Still me. Okay, so we're going to go off the record now. And I'll go first.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Okay.

[Mark Eiglar]

My wife and I love true crime shows. We used to watch Dateline murder mysteries all the time. Admittedly, that made me a little nervous and uncomfortable because with every episode, my wife increased her knowledge on how to commit the perfect murder of her husband. These days, we watch all the true crime documentaries offered on the different streaming platforms. For example, we binged watched worst roommate ever and then Worst ex ever. And recently this came out with maternal instinct. Oh, my goodness. If you haven't seen it, y' all must. It is extraordinary and mind blowing what people are capable of doing. One thing my wife and I do during most of these episodes is that we stare at each other in disbelief. We literally will just turn to each other. We just stare in each other's eyes. There's always a moment, typically within the first four minutes, when the victim learns something about the perpetrator that should serve as a red flag, like get away. And we're looking at each other going for sure they're going to leave. For example, maybe it's the moment she discovers that her allegedly squeaky clean cub scout boyfriend is actually a career criminal who's been to the pokey many times. Pokies prison. Or that the man that he's that has been telling her that she loves her isn't single at all. He has a wife and a few kids at home. But she stays there. It's amazing. Despite all the red flags, they just stay. Trusted family members even passionately warn them. And yet they still stay. We've often said that these shows should be renamed. Why don't you leave? Ace of Bass sings I saw the signs and it opened up my eyes I saw the signs. No, you didn't. Unfortunately, invariably on these shows then something worse happens. Something horrible happens, leaving the victim and those around them filled with regret. Now, I'm not here to bash the victims. I feel for them. The old saying goes, love is blind. I totally get that. But if we just talk more about it, maybe people's awareness will go up and hopefully the next time they'll see the signs and they'll get out of those relationships before it's too late.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Oh, Mark.

[Mark Eiglar]

Okay, Jona. Yes.

[Jonna Spielberg]

I like that you had a very nice message at the end of that. Even though I don't think. Here's my opinion. I don't think Beth is staring into your eyes while she's watching Dateline murder mysteries thinking, oh, what's wrong with those people? She's probably thinking, how long would it take if I just.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yes.

[Jonna Spielberg]

You know, I should be getting inspiration inspo.

[Mark Eiglar]

Honey, can I get you something else to eat or drink that I could drop something in? All right, enough darkness. It's time for your rant.

[Jonna Spielberg]

We're going to lighten it up with some really stupid doesn't matter to anything words from me. Okay, today my off the record rant is another page out of the non existent handbook that I have written only in my mind. Aptly called how not to Drive like an Asshole. If this sounds familiar, it's because yes, we have covered other chapters before in the past. Like the rant I had on traffic circles as a reminder. Traffic circles are simply round intersection intersections, not an opportunity for you to test how well my brakes work. Moving on. I am pretty sure in recent past I also discussed my problem with Subarus because Subarus exacerbate my mild but chronic road rage. Hence I have a whole chapter in the how not to Drive like an Asshole handbook dedicated to them. If you drive a Subaru, all I ask is that you never, ever, ever, never under any circumstance pull out in front of me. If you do, I will quietly curse you knowing you are going to impede the flow of traffic. It's in the Subaru DNA. I can say this because my mother drives a Subaru consistently five to ten miles an hour below the speed limit. Doesn't matter where she's going, she's going to get there 20 minutes behind everybody else. Today, however, we will be discussing the chapter on when it is appropriate to take a left hand turn across a double yellow line. The answer is only between the hours of midnight and 3am during Armageddon, when no one else is on the road. Yesterday I'm driving from Court. The court is located on a busy highway. In order to get from that highway to a different highway, one must dig and then zag across two smaller connecting roadways, one of which abuts a Kentucky Fried Chicken. It just so happened the genius four or five cars ahead of mine decided he needed a bucket of fried fat so bad that he was going to stop all traffic from moving behind him while he waited for a long line of oncoming cars to have sympathy and let him cross into the KFC parking lot. Problem was, nobody could get around him and nobody let him in. This in turn caused a backup so severe that even a New York City ambulance driver would have been stumped. Let me tell you something. The need to increase your bad cholesterol is never so important that you can't look in your rear view mirror and make a decision to save humanity by having even a wee bit of situational awareness. Think of it this way. The longer you hold up traffic to take a left across a double yellow line when there's no room on the right to avoid being held hostage by your inconsideration, the more children are going to starve, the more bladders are going to burst and the more spontaneous one finger salutes are going to be visible in that little rear view mirror you're not looking in. You see, politics isn't the only place where the left is a problem. Just don't do it. This has been another chapter from the how not to Drive like an Asshole handbooks, subtitled how to Manage Mild But Chronic Road Rage Without Therapy or Jail. You're welcome.

[Mark Eiglar]

Thank you for reminding us all that KFC is fried. You know. Thank you.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Come on, people, please. People have to look behind them when you're making a stupid maneuver. And you're back. Seriously. And I know that this is very minor, but this is the kind of thing that gets my blood boiling boiling because I am going to write a book. I am going to write a book. How not to Drive like an Asshole. And I bet, yeah, it'll sell a million copies.

[Mark Eiglar]

Well, Jona, thank you. It's been another wonderful hour here on Positively Legal. Thank you to our guest. We are grateful. I am grateful for you. The fan club is just going to grow. It has to close it. Yeah.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Yes. Let everybody know we have a really special guest next week. We're not going to tell you who.

[Mark Eiglar]

Yeah.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Not going to tell you.

[Mark Eiglar]

You'll just have to come back. Right? All right, Jonna, thank you.

[Jonna Spielberg]

Thanks, Mark.

[Mark Eiglar]

Positively grateful for you. And I thank all of you for joining us. And we'll see you next week. And I hope you choose to have a wonderful week.

[Unknown Speaker (possibly a reporter or interviewer)]

Take care.

[Angie Hicks]

Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie, and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter, from plumbing to electrical, roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your [e-mail] traditional

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[Jonna Spielberg]

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[Mark Eiglar]

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[Damon West]

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