Kouri Richins Trial Juror Tells ALL, Kohberger’s Creepy DMV Visit, Bloodstained Rock Analyzed in Hawaii Doctor Trial

Summary

MK True Crime Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Kouri Richins Trial Juror Tells ALL, Kohberger’s Creepy DMV Visit, Bloodstained Rock Analyzed in Hawaii Doctor Trial
Date: April 1, 2026
Hosts: Ashleigh Merchant & Dave Aronberg
Special Guest: Christy Halverson (Juror #3, Kouri Richins trial)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into three riveting cases dominating the true crime headlines:

• Gerhard Koenig Hawaii Doctor Attempted Murder Trial: Analysis of key evidence and trial strategies as an anesthesiologist stands accused of trying to kill his wife on a hike.
• Bryan Kohberger Moscow Murders Update: Discussion of newly-released DMV surveillance footage showing the suspect behaving casually just days after the murders.
• Inside the Kouri Richins Trial: In-depth interview with Christy Halverson, a juror who reveals what it was like inside the deliberation room for one of the country’s most notorious recent murder trials.

The episode prioritizes legal insight, behind-the-scenes details, and the minds of jurors faced with life-and-death decisions.

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Key Cases and Discussion Points

I. Gerhard Koenig – The Hawaii Doctor Attempted Murder Trial

(00:04 – 18:18)

Allegations and Testimony

• Background: Dr. Gerhard Koenig, anesthesiologist, stands trial for second-degree attempted murder of his wife, Ariel, during a hike in Hawaii.
• Wife’s Testimony:
  • “You know, I'm screaming and I'm saying, what the fuck are you doing? … Nobody's gonna hear you out here. Nobody's coming to save you.”
    (Christy Halverson, quoting Ariel Koenig, 01:13)
  • Describes struggle to pry a vial from Koenig's hands, being threatened, and struck repeatedly with a rock.

Jury Perception & Cursing on the Stand

• Discussion about cursing:
  • Dave: “I've seen it both ways. Where some jurors may be like, oh, wow, she's got a mouth on her…maybe that's not great…but maybe it's just important… Which way do you go on the key witness cursing?” (Dave Aronberg, 02:57)
  • Ashleigh: “You have to know your jury…in more rural areas…I'd just be a little more cautious about offending someone.” (03:22)

Defense Strategy & Evidence

• Emphasis on self-defense claim, but holes pointed out:
  • Defendant “fled and tried to hide out”, suggesting "consciousness of guilt."
  • “Just like any innocent person who is in fear of his life, he's wrestling with a guy saying, police, police in a grassy knoll. Yeah.” (Dave Aronberg, 06:43)
• Key evidence is missing (lack of found syringe) but there is:
  • Body camera of bloody victim, medical bag with supplies, no syringes.
  • Testimony about physical evidence: “Photo of the rock…with blood…close up…with strands of possible human hair.” (11:05)

Forensic Evidence Issues

• Michelle Amerin (Criminologist) analysis reveals only partial DNA swabbing of the rock:
  • “There was one female [on stained part].” (12:27)
  • “From the unstained area…there are two [contributors].” (12:37)
  • “Why not swab the entire thing? …That's reasonable doubt.” (Ashleigh Merchant, 13:13)

Use of AI in Evidence Gathering

• AI used for search warrants/conducting email metadata searches (“separate” as a search term).
• Judge Wong allows email evidencing Koenig buying a recording device:
  • “Even if this court is wrong in this reasonable determination, hindsight does not allow the correction sought by the defendant.” (Judge Wong, via Dave Aronberg, 17:11)

Witnesses to Come

• Koenig’s son set to testify, allegedly received a FaceTime confession from defendant:
  • “According to reports, FaceTime with his dad who admitted to it, who confessed: ‘Yeah, I tried to kill mom.’” (Dave Aronberg, 17:53)
  • “That’s going to be hot.” (Ashleigh Merchant, 18:04)

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II. Bryan Kohberger – Moscow Murders and Creepy DMV Visit

(18:18 – 21:12)

• New DMV footage shows Kohberger, days after the murders, calmly registering new plates.
• Notable exchange at the counter:
  • DMV worker: “I’d say safe, but the whole Moscow thing kind of makes me feel a little less so.” (19:44)
• Hosts cast suspicion:
  • “He just sounds so casual…He's a creepy dude.” (Ashleigh Merchant, 20:41 & Dave Aronberg, 20:43)
  • Discussion of possible gloves to avoid leaving DNA.

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III. Kouri Richins Trial – Inside the Jury Room (Interview with Juror #3)

(23:17 – 48:45)

Juror Christy Halverson’s Experience

First Impressions & Responsibility

• “I was quite excited to be on it…and as soon as I sat through opening statements, I wasn’t sure I wanted to be on it anymore. I felt a pretty hefty responsibility.” (23:41)

Turning Point in Evidence:

• “It was probably the cell tower data … the first point I thought, oh my goodness, there’s actual evidence she really did this and really bought the drugs…” (24:56)
• “By the end, there was just no, no denying it that she was guilty.”

Defense Case Fumbles:

• Shock that the defense rested without presenting planned evidence:
  • “As soon as we got back in after a recess and the defense rested, we were absolutely shocked…all of the things that they promised to show us were gone.” (25:41, 26:12)

Kouri Richins’ Demeanor:

• “She was stone cold the whole time. …Never saw much emotion… never went in to be with her boys… That was odd to me.” (27:01, 28:11, 28:39)
• Jury’s limited view; did not see facial reactions picked up by cameras.

Deliberation Insights:

• Process lasted nearly three hours: “We decided to share pieces of evidence… when we first did cast a vote, there were a couple people that were a little bit on the fence… It was the second charge that had us stuck. …But the law made it really quite easy.” (36:17, 37:26)
• Cell tower data and undercover officer’s testimony were pivotal.

Notable Moments & Evidence Discussions:

• On the ‘Black Widow’ Label and Closing Arguments:
  • “It didn’t upset me. It probably was appropriate, if not a little theatrical.” (33:44)
• On Kouri’s Behavior (CPR, 911):
  • “It took her over six minutes to administer CPR… I just think what would I do… I would be doing everything I could…” (34:34)
  • “She claimed…[to have given CPR], but I honestly think she probably faked it.” (35:18)
• On Deliberation & Votes:
  • “There were a couple people…on the fence, but as we talked through the evidence… it was pretty hard for them to not come around.” (36:17)
• On The Walk-the-Dog Letter:
  • “That was huge…That just spoke so heavily to her guilt. She could've gotten herself off if there was truth to that, but obviously, it didn't come up because it was her fabricating a story.” (41:13)
• On Kouri’s Book & Media Appearance:
  • “Her inability to be in touch with reality, that she would murder her husband, write a book about grief… She self promoted this situation… it makes me sick for her boys, and I just think it's so narcissistic and so sad…” (43:26)

On Judgment and the Judge:

• Expressed admiration for the judge’s fairness and temperament:
  • “He really did [have] a great temperament…he never seemed to weigh one side or the other… I was blown away by his ability to remember the information and keep track…” (45:45)
• Regarding Sentencing:
  • “We are taking her away from her boys… I said, 'We didn't take away their mom. This has nothing to do with us. She did.'” (46:07)
• Jury agrees she should receive a significant sentence.

Reflections on the Burden of Jury Duty:

• “It was a weight to carry…the whole time…not be able to talk about it…it was tough. But I feel we did the right thing…with open minds and with good hearts.” (48:14)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Victim Testimony:
  “I’m screaming and he’s telling me, ‘Shut the fuck up. Nobody’s gonna hear you out here. Nobody’s coming to save you.’”
  (Ariel Koenig’s testimony, 01:45)

• On Evidence Handling:
  “Why not swab the entire thing? I think that’s a significant weakness here...that’s reasonable doubt.”
  (Ashleigh Merchant, 13:13)

• On the Walk-the-Dog Letter:
  “That was huge. That was a huge piece of evidence for me that just spoke so heavily to her guilt…It was devastating.”
  (Christy Halverson, 41:13)

• On Kouri Richins’ Book:
  “She couldn't write her own children's book. She had to hire a ghostwriter…there was no way that that was going to be something that she was starting a novel.”
  (Christy Halverson, 42:11)

• On Girard Koenig’s Self-Defense Claim:
  “He has no injuries from her, but she has severe injuries from him and he's hitting her 10 times. Isn't that overkill?”
  (Dave Aronberg, 08:07)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Gerhard Koenig Case Overview & Ariel’s Testimony: 00:04 – 02:24
• Cursing on the Stand & Jury Considerations: 02:35 – 04:44
• Evidence, Self-Defense, Bodycam, and Police Chase: 04:44 – 09:45
• Forensic Rock Analysis: 11:05 – 13:13
• AI in Search Warrants, Legal Debate, and Judge’s Ruling: 13:13 – 17:47
• Upcoming Testimony & Koenig Son’s Confession Allegation: 17:48 – 18:18
• Bryan Kohberger DMV Footage Discussion: 18:18 – 21:12
• Interview with Kouri Richins Juror #3: 23:17 – 48:45
• Juror’s First Impressions: 23:28 – 24:44
• Key Evidence (Cell Data): 24:56 – 25:34; 38:39 – 40:48
• Deliberation Process: 36:17 – 38:21
• Discussion of Book & Sentencing: 42:11 – 47:33

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Closing Arguments

Ashleigh and Dave close with sharp critiques of judicial accountability, referencing current scandals and viral court moments to emphasize the importance of integrity among those wielding power in the legal system.
(Begins 51:29)

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Takeaways

• Trials hinge on credibility, evidence, and jury composition more than theatrics.
• Emotional testimony can be double-edged—convincing or off-putting based on the jury.
• Technical evidence such as cell tower data and forensic reports can decisively sway juries.
• Jurors carry an immense burden and are often shaped by what is left unseen as well as seen—and by gaps left by the defense.
• Cases often come down to how diligent the prosecution is in closing all reasonable doubt.

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A powerful episode blending legal insight, psychological observation, and the rare opportunity to hear directly from a pivotal juror.

Transcript

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Welcome to MK True Crime. I'm Ashleigh Merchant. I'm a criminal defense attorney from Atlanta, Georgia. Here's what's on the docket today. We're excited to be joined by a juror from the Corey Richards trial. We'll speak with Christy Halverson, juror number three, later in the show. And there's new surveillance footage of Bryan Kohberger casually chatting about Moscow murders at the dmv. The that's been released. We'll bring you all the details. And the trial of a doctor who allegedly tried to kill his wife while they were on a hiking trail continues this week with key evidence on display. I'm joined today by my co host, Dave Aronberg, the Florida lawman, former state attorney for Palm Beach County, Florida and managing partner at Dave Aronberg Law. Welcome, Dave. So Dave, the MK True Crime audience is definitely interested in this case. Cause it's an interesting case. It's the case of Gerhard Koenig. And it was one of our most popular topics last week. So we're gonna to cover this wild case out of Hawaii. Just a reminder to our viewers, Gerhardt Koenig is charged with second degree attempted murder for an alleged assault of his wife, Ariel Koenig, last year. She took the stand last week to share her side of the story. Watch this.

[Christy Halverson]

You know, I'm screaming and I'm saying,

[Ashleigh Merchant]

what the fuck are you doing?

[Christy Halverson]

Get off me. And he's saying, like, fuck you, you're done. I'm so, so sick of your shit.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

So done with you. And I'm trying to

[Christy Halverson]

kind of protect myself and get out of there.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

But also he's gripping his hand closed really hard and there's a vial in his hand.

[Christy Halverson]

So I was trying to pry his

[Ashleigh Merchant]

hand open so I could grab that vial out.

[Christy Halverson]

Oh, I mean, I'm screaming and he's

[Ashleigh Merchant]

telling me, shut the fuck up. Nobody's gonna hear you out here. Nobody's coming to save you. And I'm saying like, you can't do this.

[Christy Halverson]

Everyone knows we're on a hike.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

They'll know this wasn't an accident and our kids will be orphans. You'll go to jail and I'll be dead. Like, you have to stop.

[Christy Halverson]

And again he's saying like, you're done.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

We're done with you. We don't need you anymore.

[Christy Halverson]

You're done.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

You're done.

[Christy Halverson]

And then he just starts hitting my

[Ashleigh Merchant]

face and my head with Iraq. And he said, she said, dave, her testimony is going to be extremely important. So, you know, getting a Glimpse of what she said on the stand. And her credibility is going to be. Going to be one of the key things that the jury has to decide. How did you think she did on the stand?

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, actually, I thought she did fine. Now it's important for the jury to see her as a petite woman because the defense is claiming self defense, that he was somehow scared of her and she was the aggressor. So that's important. Question I have for you is I noticed that she decided to go all in and drop the F bombs and curse like a sailor on the stand. I know she's quoting him.

[Christy Halverson]

Right.

[Dave Aronberg]

But I've seen it both ways. Where some jurors may be like, oh, wow, she's got a mouth on her. And, you know, if they're like old school, maybe that is not great to have in front of the jury. Or maybe it's just important because you don't really get to be there unless you hear what, what this guy actually said. Which way do you go on having the key witness in the case, the victim, curse on the stand?

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I would wait and see what my jury was like. If I had a jury that tended to be a little bit more liberal, a little bit younger, maybe a little bit, I don't wanna say hipper. Cause, you know, cussing isn't really a hip thing, but, you know, just a different type of juror, I would be a little.

[Dave Aronberg]

I'd be less offended.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, I would just be a little bit more comfortable where, you know, depending on the location, when I tried cases. I've tried cases in south Georgia. You know, in a south Georgia jury, they're very different than Atlanta. Ju cussing, you know, in Atlanta wouldn't be so frowned upon, but I would definitely not do it in some of the more rural areas of Georgia. I'd just be a little bit more cautious about offending someone. So I think I would hope that the defense lawyers have taken that into consideration. I would hope that the state's lawyers, the state's attorney know their jurors and know their area before having her testify about that. And she seemed very comfortable with it, you know, and maybe that makes her more believable.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah. But, you know, you're right. It depends on the jury because if you have conservative jurors, and I'm sorry that sexism is real, but it is. Right. So you have a woman who is, who wants to be the victim here. She is the victim. I mean, I believe her. I believe her. But you May have conservative jurors wanting to sympathize with her, and then she's out there throwing out the F bombs, and that could be off putting to some of them. So it is interesting because, I mean, I assume he'll take the stand. I mean, he's claiming self defense.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

He better take the stand.

[Dave Aronberg]

So he better, right?

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah. He's in trouble if he doesn't take the stand. Let's put it that way, I think.

[Dave Aronberg]

I mean, almost in almost every case where you claim self defense, you take the stand because you got to show you're in reasonable fear of your life. So you got to explain it. You can't really do it through a third party testimony. You got to talk about yourself, what's in your mind. But I thought overall she. She did fine. I think the real key is the videos. I mean, there's that video of her blood all over her, the body camera video. I mean, there's. There's stuff. And then you'll have key witnesses like the officer who chased this guy down. It is important that this guy, the defendant, fled and tried to hide out and probably ditch the syringes because I guess, although his bag full of medical supplies was found, I don't believe the actual syringes that he allegedly used were found. But this officer, who is an unmarked van, managed to chase this guy down. And that goes the consciousness of guilt where you're fleeing. Not. If this really were self defense and you were fear of your life, you wouldn't be trying to hide from police. In fact, we do have the officer sot from him how he described the struggle to arrest the defendant. Can we play sot too? You said you kept yelling, police, stop. Yes. How many times? I just kept yelling as I was running. Multiple times. I just was yelling, police.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Okay.

[Dave Aronberg]

And going forward again. Now, after you grab the defendant's arm, what did the defendant do? He tries to pull, like break my grip. So he just to pull out and continue running away from me, to get away from me. And as the defendants pulling away from you, when you're grabbing his right arm, what happens with you and the defendant? Well, we're in this like, grassy, like muddy area sweep both. I lose my balance. He loses balance. We both fall on and I fall on top of him. Yeah. Just like any innocent person who is in fear of his life, he's wrestling with a guy saying, police, police in a grassy knoll. Yeah.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah. That is definitely the worst fact. I think that they have. You know, a lot of the evidence they have is corroborating her story, but it could potentially corroborate his. Except for that, I think that is very, very difficult. Very difficult witness and a difficult thing to get over. Now, he is a doctor, though. He's an anesthesiologist. And so he's smart. I think we'll see him testify. You know, when I through all of the information about the trial and the witnesses that have testified, I started thinking, well, what if this gentleman had come to me and I was trying to defend him? What if I was thinking about this, how I would present it to a jury? And I mean, what his story is, what we heard in opening is his story is really going to have to be. My wife cheated on me. I was hurt, I was angry. I got a recording device because we know that that recording device. We'll talk about that in a minute. His recording device, the email where he ordered one to record her, that's going to come into evidence and he needs to own that. He needs to say, she was cheating on me. I didn't want to continue being a liar. I felt like I was being gaslit. I didn't want to think I was imagining things, that she wasn't really cheating on me. So I did, you know, I tracked her, I had her listened to. And he's going to need to explain why he had a medical bag. He's going to have to say, you know, I carry a medical bag with me for hiking, for precautions. A lot of doctors do. He's going to have to back that up. And then he's going to have to say, and it's going to have to be believable because this is what he said, she said that, you know, he couldn't believe it when she picked the rock up and hit him and that he was just in shock, didn't know what to do other than protect himself. So he grabbed the rock, hit her back in self defense, and then he was just in shock whenever he reacted

[Dave Aronberg]

to this police 10 times, right. He has no injuries from her, but she has severe injuries from him and he's hitting her 10 times. Isn't that overkill?

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Oh, definitely. I mean, he's gonna have to really convince a jury that he was just terrified. And I think it's gonna be hard, especially for a doctor who's smart, because you learn through certain professions to control your emotions, you know, and so he's gonna have to explain somehow to this jury in a believable fashion and that he couldn't, he was overcome with fear, something like that. It's Definitely going to be difficult. It's going to be an uphill battle. The one fact that I do think is probably the best one for the defense and it may change is as of right now, you mentioned Dave, they don't have the syringe. So that is a crucial thing that's missing from this. And I think that, that outside of obviously the rock, I think the syringe is a crucial part of the state's case to prove that he had the motive to try to kill her. That syringe is bad. And if they had the syringe, I think that would be just the nail in the coffin. So it'll be interesting to see if there's something that comes out syringe later on.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, he had eight hours to hide it.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah.

[Dave Aronberg]

So that's, that's something. It's easy explanation why they couldn't find the syringe.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Right.

[Dave Aronberg]

I thought they were trying to find the her with her phone, the text messages between her and the lover. And I use the term lover like very broadly because she said it was an emotional relationship, it wasn't a physical one. And if they could show that it was a physical one, if they could show there were there was evidence of a physical relationship, then they could say, see, she lied, she lies in the stand. She lied then, she's lying now. But to my knowledge, they have not found anything that contradicts anything she has said. So so far, so good for the prosecution, right?

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Right. No, they haven't. They have not yet. So. And you know, she's, she's withstood cross examination. Nothing crazy happened with that. Think about this. In 2006, $20,000 equaled roughly 33 ounces of gold at spot price. At today's prices, those 33 ounces would be worth about $165,000. That's why many smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings into precious metals. And that's why you should consider buying gold from Birch Gold Group. For thousands of years, gold has been a store of wealth. And today it's a crucial part of any balanced strategy. Even better, Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax sheltered retirement account in gold. Just text MK to the number 989898 to receive your free info kit on gold. There's no obligation, just useful information with an A plus rating. With a better Business Bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers, let Birch Gold help you diversify with gold. Now that's peace of mind. Again, text MK to 9 8, 9, 8, 9, 8. Today. I think one of the things that's really crucial piece of evidence for the jury to see and they've already seen is if we can play Thought 3. It's, it's the detective actually showing the rock that was allegedly used. And then we can talk a little bit about the testimony that we've heard about this rock and the DNA on it.

[Dave Aronberg]

What does this photo show, detectives? Shows a photo of the rock in which part of the rock, the jagged side with blood or what appears to be blood on it. Okay, and why did you take this photo? Just to get. I just want to take this photo just to. So you can see the side of the rock that possibly had made contact with human skin. This photo shows. It depicts a close up of the rock with strands of possible human hair. This exhibit depicts the rock. And one of the measurements I was taken with a ruler.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Okay. You know, Dave, why are they up there testifying possible human hair? Why have they not got that locked down before they put this man on the stand? That is a big miss, you know,

[Dave Aronberg]

so there is rock testing that was done. And you know, you have the Michelle Amerin, that's the, the, that's the criminologist. And we have a sot on her testimony about the rock test. And we should play that SOT. 4. I want to clarify something with the rock one more time. From the stained area at the bottom, how many contributors were there?

[Christy Halverson]

There was one female.

[Dave Aronberg]

One female. Okay. And from the unstained area that you swabbed, how many contributors were there?

[Christy Halverson]

There are two.

[Dave Aronberg]

Okay, Thank you. No further questions. I'm going to retrieve the exhibit from you. Just brief follow up. Thank. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Am. So just to be clear there, there, there are parts of the rock that were not stained, that was not tested, correct?

[Christy Halverson]

Yes. The whatever was left on the swab that I preserved and didn't test.

[Dave Aronberg]

And there may be parts of the rock that you didn't actually even swab, right?

[Christy Halverson]

Yes. Yes.

[Dave Aronberg]

Thank you.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

That's huge. That's huge. And if it was me, what I would do then is I would tie it in, in closing arguments. You know, I would leave that there so that they couldn't really try and explain it there. But then in closing arguments, I would hit it really hard that, you know, they had the chance to swab the rest of this rock. That could have corroborated his story, that could have supported him. But they had on blinders. They didn't want to see that. So they didn't Swab it. What could be on that? And that's reasonable doubt. What could be on that rock? Why not swab the entire thing? I think that's a significant weakness here. But one of the other things I wanted to talk about, I thought was interesting was this search warrant. They got this search warrant. I'm always piqued interest when I hear AI being used at all in court because it's such a hot topic for us. But what happened was there was a hearing, a 40 minute hearing outside of the jury's presence. So just with the judge, and the defense essentially argued that, that one of the emails that they found from the defendant, that one of his emails should not be admitted into evidence. The prosecution said that that search warrant was properly executed. But what happened was it was, it was what we call these CDW search warrants, like a communications data warrant, where you're actually getting someone's email. And how you're able to do that with the fourth Amendment is you've got to narrow it. You can't just go and sift through someone's email because that's, you know, personal information. It's very invasive. And so how the government gets around it is they'll narrow it and they'll do search terms. So, you know, they use AI to, to search, to essentially harvest these emails to find things that are relevant. You know, that way they exclude all the stuff that's personal, that's not relevant. And one of the search terms that they asked for, they said it was separate. That was one of the search terms. So they said the word separate, which I thought was interesting, that that was one of the search terms. I don't really know why that would be a search term, but that was a search term and it didn't actually show up. So I guess search, because, you know, divorce, but it didn't actually show up in this email. But, but it showed up somewhere in the metadata. And so that's why they found, that's why the police found this email showing that the husband had bought a recording device to record the wife. And so that's why the state was saying, hey, we're allowed to present this. It doesn't violate the search warrant, it doesn't violate the fourth Amendment because it showed up in the metadata. And the judge, of course, let it in, as judges always do.

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, part of it is that when you have technology, you have judges who probably are not very proficient and when they're told, well, the word separate, and the reason why the word separate is in there is because divorce Separation. Separate. That's it. But the word separate was in the source code. It's in the metadata and. Oh, okay, great. Even though I don't think any of us knows what that means. Really. Maybe the male audience is very smart and they know what it means. But maybe the judge, because you said to me, source code sure sounds good to me. I'm pro prosecution, let it in. So, yeah, maybe that is something a little squirrely. In fact, we have a sot on Judge Wong allowing the email and we play SOT4B. And when we're looking at the term separate, the inclusion of that term in conjunction with the term divorce may cast a wider net because it may impact the potential source code in an electronic search. But when. When the terms are put together, separate and divorce, the court does not find the inclusion of that term to be unreasonable. Even if this court is wrong in this reasonable determination, hindsight does not allow the correction sought by the defendant. The Supreme Court of Hawaii held that when considering the actions of law enforcement in the execution of a search warrant, reading from their language, we must judge the constitutionality of their conduct in light of the information available to them at the time they acted. Those items of evidence that emerge after the warrant is issued have no bearing on whether or not a warrant was validly issued. Just as the discovery of contraband cannot validate a warrant invalid when issued, so it is equally clear that the discovery of facts demonstrating that a valiant ward was unnecessarily broad does not retroactively invalidate the warrant. Well, he didn't really give him the source code too much, but he. He did give a full explanation and kudos to him, by the way. One more question about that. What's the deal with the recorder? Why. Why is that so important here? He could explain that away.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, no, I mean, you could definitely explain that away. And I think this was kind of just a red herring. I don't even know why they really wanted this. But next up on this is the son. Gerhardt's son's actually going to test.

[Dave Aronberg]

That's a big deal.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

I know. It is a big deal. And we'll be able to bring you the highlights on Friday's show because he is up next.

[Dave Aronberg]

But we want apparently, by the way, the son, According to reports, FaceTime with his dad who admitted to it, who confessed. Right. I mean, the defendants. Yeah, I tried to kill mom.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

I know. That's going to be. That's going to be hot. That's going to be interesting. And we're going to talk about It.

[Dave Aronberg]

It's a son from a previous marriage. So he said, I tried to kill her. Right, Right. I don't know why people do these things. Why? I mean, you do such a great job as a defense lawyer, then you wake up one morning to hear, like, your client actually confess.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Oh, yeah, it's one of those things. You can't change that. But we've got some news I want to cover real quick about Brian Kohberger. We had, you know, Brian Kohberger. Everybody knows he is the student who. The former student in 2022, he stabbed fatally several different undergrad from the University of Idaho. But why this is relevant now and why we're talking about this now is there was some DMV footage that was recently released. It's new footage that was uploaded to YouTube, and it actually shows Bryan Kohberger at a Washington state DMV getting new license plates on November 18, 2022. And why this is important and why everyone's paying attention to this is this was just five days after the murder, which is really interesting, because, you know, early on, they were searching for plates for his car, and they were targeting certain vehicles matching a description. But at the time, car was registered in Pennsylvania, so his car would not have been flagged. So it's sort of important that he was there changing his plates, but we'll watch it in a minute. But it's kind of creepy. You know, he's making small talk with the lady at the dmv, and she mentions the murders and says, you know, I really like it, though. I like how small, quiet. I would say safe. But the whole Moscow thing kind of makes me a little feel. Feel a little less so. If we could play SOT6.

[Christy Halverson]

Hi.

[Dave Aronberg]

How's it going? Pretty good. I definitely need to get my license plate changed. Okay. We should be able to help with that.

[Christy Halverson]

I like how I would say safe,

[Dave Aronberg]

but the whole mops thing kind of makes me feel a little less safe right now.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Crazy. So. So, you know, theory. The prosecutors think that him changing his vehicle registration after the initial search would have made it more, you know, more difficult, harder for them to actually tie him to the crime. So it's definitely, definitely interesting. And we'll bring you any updates.

[Dave Aronberg]

Was he wearing gloves? I. I thought when I watched that video, he was wearing gloves.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah.

[Dave Aronberg]

Stick black gloves to keep his fingerprints and his DNA off of everything. Can we. I know it's a short clip, but can we look at that again? We just replay that one more time. I want to look for the gloves on his hands.

[Christy Halverson]

Hi.

[Dave Aronberg]

How's it going? Pretty good. I definitely need to get my license plate changed. Okay. We should be able to help with that. I like how you're considered a bit little.

[Christy Halverson]

I would say safe, but.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

He just sounds so casual. Oh, it's just.

[Dave Aronberg]

He's a. He's a creepy dude.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

I know.

[Dave Aronberg]

Shame on the university to continue to employ that guy. He had a number of complaints. He looks creepy, acts creepy, and, yeah, that guy. If you had said, of all the people you know, who's the most likely to be serial killer? That would be the dude right there. It's always the ones you expect the most.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, definitely. Well, next up, we've got something really exciting. We've got Christy Halperson. She is a juror from the Corey Richens trial and she's going to discuss her experience with us. Stay tuned.

[Dave Aronberg]

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[Christy Halverson]

Hi. Thank you guys for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

[Dave Aronberg]

Oh, we have so many questions for you. We're going to just ask you the best ones. First off, just the basic. Is this the first time you've ever been on a jury?

[Christy Halverson]

Oh, absolutely. I. I've been called before in other states where we've lived, but I never had the opportunity to serve until now. So it was a big one.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Oh, my gosh. Did you want to be on the jury? Like, what did you think when you were there before?

[Christy Halverson]

I really knew what the case was about. I was quite excited to be on it. And as soon as I sat through opening statements, I wasn't sure I wanted to be on it anymore. I felt a pretty hefty responsibility.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, the responsibility is huge.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah. When you first saw Cory Richards there, sitting right near you, were you like, there's no way. I mean, what could she have done? Right? Did you immediately think, this sweet, doe eyed woman, you know, there's no way she could have done anything. Was that your initial reaction?

[Christy Halverson]

That was my initial thought. I. You know, we learned early on in the trial that she was a mother and a mother myself. I feel like it would be super hard to harm the father of your children and your partner and your husband and somebody you loved. So we were just absolutely open minded. At least I was prepared for whatever the prosecution and the defense had to say and. And just did not imagine that she would have been guilty. But the evidence was absolutely there.

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, Ashley, if I can ask one more follow up, because, Christine, at what point did your brain change? You're like, you looked at her like murder. At what point did that happen?

[Christy Halverson]

I think it was probably the cell tower data that we got. We had quite a bit of testimony prior to that. And that was the first point that I thought, oh, my goodness, there's actual evidence that she really did this and really bought the drugs that ended her husband's life. It was devastating. I definitely wasn't fully convinced. I felt like going into it. I just wanted to kind of see what the evidence showed. And I wanted to give every opportunity to the lawyers to present whatever they had. And by the end of it, there was just no, no denying it that she was guilty.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Did it surprise you or did you expect the defense to put on evidence? I mean, they sort of alluded to it in openings.

[Christy Halverson]

Oh, absolutely. We were prepared for the defense to present. We knew prosecution was probably getting close to wrapping up just because of the length of time that they had presented. And as soon as we got back in after a recess and the defense rested, we were absolutely shocked. Absolutely shocked. Was not expecting that at all.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Wow.

[Dave Aronberg]

So really, maybe inside, even though you thought, well, the evidence is really piled up, but Wait till we hear from the defense. They're gonna put on a case, and then they're like, nothing here.

[Christy Halverson]

Right. I mean, we took all the error. Yeah. We remembered that the defense doesn't have the burden of proof, but I felt confident that if there was truly an investor that Corey had purchased the drugs, four, we would hear from that person, and. And that would have made it really easy for us, but I don't think there was that person. And all of the things that they promised to show us were gone. We got nothing. So we went with what the prosecution presented, which was such a strong case. There was so much evidence.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, I mean, that's like trial 101. As a defense lawyer, you don't promise things in the opening that you're not going to be able to deliver. That was. That was frustrating for us watching as well. So I'm sure it was for you all as jurors. I want to ask about Corey herself. Would you have liked to see her take the stand? I know we would. And testify, I mean. And do you think that would have made a difference?

[Christy Halverson]

I don't know if it would have made a difference, but I would have loved to hear what she had to say. By the time we did get to when the defense was going to present, we knew pretty much that there was a mountain of evidence convicting her. I've since seen a lot of things online where people have talked about her reactions and her smirks and her faces that she made. And as a jury, we didn't really get to see that. Our eyes were mostly on the witness that was speaking. And so we would glance over at her periodically, at least I know I would, and just never. Never could get a read on or never saw much emotion. She seemed pretty cold. I didn't see her wiping tears away when they're showing the 911 body cam footage. The phone call. Like, that would have been devastating to watch had you not been responsible for your husband's death. And so, yeah, so we just never really got a read on her. I've since seen a lot of the smirks, a lot of the faces she made, but. But as jurors, we were. We were far away, and we didn't. We didn't have our eyes on her every moment, and we didn't get to see that.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Okay, that's interesting. We talked about that on the show, about how far she was and if. You know, trying to guess if you all could see her or not.

[Christy Halverson]

Yeah, no, we could see her, but we didn't have a Straight on. Look at her face. It was always from the side, from where we were, and we just had no idea what she was thinking. She was, she was stone cold the whole time.

[Dave Aronberg]

What'd you think about the video of her when the cops first showed up and she was dressed almost to the nines like this, with her full length pajama outfit, her hair up and like she was ready for her close up. Did that strike you as weird? Like she was ready for that moment? She was acting.

[Christy Halverson]

It didn't actually strike me as weird. I, I know that Katie Richards, in her testimony, talked about Corey being in a sweatsuit. And then when we saw the actual footage, looked to me just like a pair of pajamas. And I didn't particularly look at her and feel like she was made up. I was really trying to keep an open mind and not make judgments because that was very early on in the trial when we first saw that. So. So I didn't think anything of that. I, I tried really hard to not judge her reaction because I, I don't know how I would react and I don't know what the stress of that kind of a situation would look like for me. And the only thing that struck me as odd was that she wasn't going in to be with her bo care of her boys, or to. She knew they were awake and talked about that to the officer, but never went in to tell him it was going to be okay, give him a hug, reassure him. And that was odd to me. That was the only piece that I really thought was incredibly odd.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

I could totally see that as a mother, definitely. You mentioned something on a show that you were on about feeling the weight of it, especially when facing the defense attorneys during closing. I wanted to ask you about that because I know I've had those situations where, you know, you get close to jurors during a trial. And as a defense lawyer, I hope the jurors trust me and like me. And then that doesn't always necessarily mean I'm going to win. You know, my facts are different than my personality, obviously. So what was that like? You know, you. You said it was difficult facing the defense lawyers. Just kind of tell me about that, you know, during closing or after.

[Christy Halverson]

Yes, it was really difficult during closing, especially since the four alternates were women and they were let out and that left me and one other woman on the jury. And I know that doesn't matter, but it's significant to me as a woman. I would want a jury of my peers and that would be at least half the Number of women. So that was difficult. And then the defense. I felt there like I was on the middle seat of the front row of the jury box. And I definitely felt the gaze of Wendy Lewis as she presented the closing arguments and just felt her almost looking into my soul, pleading with me with her eyes to. To. To find in their favor. And. And we just couldn't. The evidence just wasn't there.

[Dave Aronberg]

What'd you think of Grossman, the ex boyfriend?

[Christy Halverson]

I actually felt so sorry for him. Was really quite odd when he was first brought into the courtroom and they went to swear him in and he made a comment about, oh, what do you mean by the whole truth? And as a jury, that was just shocking for all of us. We did not know what to make of that. And the judge sent us immediately out of the room so they could talk to him and work through that. And it just felt so awful to be a fly on the wall and read page and page after page of their text threads and their relationship and get a peek into what was going on inside their relationship while he sat on the stand and cried. He wiped away tears. He was overly emotional, and it was absolutely just devastating to watch. It made me sad. I didn't. I didn't feel glee at this misfortune. I didn't feel excited for the drama of it. I felt sad. It just honestly was hard to watch.

[Dave Aronberg]

Do you think she tried to have him killed? Do you think those Hush Puppies were poisoned now?

[Christy Halverson]

Probably, yeah, I do. I definitely think there. There could have been some way she was maybe setting him up to take the fall. It actually disturbs me the most to learn that after the fact she's. After the fact, I learned that she had taken out life insurance policies on her boys. That just really hurts my soul to think that, what if there was a possibility she was going to try to profit off hurting her children? I would hope not, but who knows? I think she did a lot of things that were just shocking and pretty stone cold. Wow.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

So there was some statements and closing arguments for the state. I think we've got slot 10 where the state actually there was a search whether or not she had poisoned someone. And then they recall they called her actually a black widow during the closing arguments. If we can play. Play that sot. And then I'm curious what you guys thought about her being called a black widow.

[Dave Aronberg]

This one's the most insightful. She's on receiver on her phone. The 911 call operator asking her, are you on speakerphone? She says, yes. No. She's on receiver. We're going to listen to the first part, actually, most of the 911 call. Again, the first minute is not the sound of a wife becoming a widow. To echo her friend Chelsea Barney, the first minute is the sound of a wife becoming a black widow.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

So I'm curious, first, what the jurors and your response was to that black widow. I mean, what did that make you feel when you heard that? Did it upset you or was it appropriate?

[Christy Halverson]

It didn't upset me. It probably was appropriate, if not a little theatrical. By. By that point, the. It was fairly obvious that she. She had harmed Eric and she had attempted to harm him. She'd taken out all the life insurance policies, committed the fraud, and. And so it didn't affect my decision. It didn't affect what I thought. I just did feel like it was just a little bit of kind of dramatics, which was probably certainly appropriate, given the pretty intense closing that we had that we sat through.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Right.

[Dave Aronberg]

Did you think that the prosecutor was really powerful in his comments? Some people thought he was monotone, but I thought the power was in the evidence, not necessarily his words. What'd you think about him?

[Christy Halverson]

Oh, absolutely. I thought the power was in the evidence and the way that he presented it. When they started the timer on that 911 call and it took her over six minutes to be able to administer CPR to her husband, that was absolutely just devastating to see. It was something that probably wasn't as apparent the first time we heard that early on in the trial. But to see the timer alongside and hear her not even try and hear her, not even make any attempts to resuscitate him, I just try to think, what would I do in that situation? And I think I would be doing everything I could to save my partner. So it was awful, awful to hear.

[Dave Aronberg]

And did she give CPR at all? Wasn't there some evidence?

[Christy Halverson]

She claimed that she did, but I honestly think she probably faked it, given that once the EMT showed up and started doing cpr, that he had blood and mucus coming out of his mouth. And I think those things would have been present had she actually made a valiant attempt. And I don't know how you could do CPR without your phone on speaker. She claimed at one point that she put her phone on speaker and the actual evidence showed that her phone was on receiver mode. It was never, ever turned on speaker while she was on with 911.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, that's difficult. That's a hard fact. So we know you've talked about the deliberations process, I know it lasted nearly three hours, and that some of the charges were a little bit challenging. So I'm curious if there were multiple votes, if there was anything that hung anyone up, if there were any charges that maybe were difficult. I know you said that the second degree charge, second degree attempted murder, but were there any votes that changed? And we're always curious about the vote splits and things like that throughout the process.

[Christy Halverson]

Sure, we actually did do a couple of votes, but not early on. When we first got in there, we did not immediately take a vote. I think we may have been out even a little quicker than three hours had we done that. But we decided to share pieces of evidence that were meaningful to us. We decided to go around the room and talk about things that had impacted us in the trial. And when we first did cast a vote, there were a couple people that were a little bit on the fence about everything. And as we talked through the evidence and talked through kind of some of the more damaging pieces, it was. It was pretty hard for them to. To not come. Come around to that. They were. They were leaning with it, but just a little hesitant. So that was. That was the only time that it was. And it really was the second charge that had us stuck. The attempted murder charge was a little bit hard for some people to come around, but the law made it really quite easy. The elements were laid out, and we had the ability to go through and say, yes, yes, and yes, and it was just clear, and it was pretty straightforward, and we didn't have any problem doing what we felt was the right thing.

[Dave Aronberg]

Could anyone make a case that, well, both times were not related to each other? Like the first time when there was an attempted murder where she gave him the sandwich and then he felt sick, that somehow didn't make it obvious that she did it a second time. I mean, shouldn't that have been really damning evidence? And also the fact that she told him, sleep it off, don't go to the hospital on the first time.

[Christy Halverson]

Oh, that absolutely was damning evidence. It was more just the method of administration that I think was difficult for a lot of people on the jury to wrap their brain around. Ultimately, we decided that we would just follow what the elements said on the charges, and they were there that Corey Richards attempted to murder, and we knew that there was cell tower data that lined up with the purchases of the drugs from Carmen. Everything was there, and the law made it really quite easy for us to convict on all counts, really.

[Dave Aronberg]

Ashley, it's interesting that Christy Mentioned cell tower data twice. She's mentioned. So that really is. Was it as powerful for everyone else as it was for you? As a former prosecutor and we're both defense lawyers, it's interesting that that's what you're focused on, whereas I would have focused on other things. That's the thing that really cinched the deal for you, huh?

[Christy Halverson]

Oh, that's interesting. Yes, that. That was a big, huge piece for me. And. And I'm sure several of my fellow jurors, I don't want to speak for exactly what was powerful for them, but I know that came up quite a bit when we were deliberating that we felt that it was irrefutable. You cannot fake that data. It's either there or it's not. And it was there. The other piece of evidence that was pretty powerful for me was the testimony nobody got to hear unless you were in the courtroom with the undercover police officer.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Ah, yeah, tell us about that. We still don't know what all was said.

[Christy Halverson]

A lot of people. Yes, I wish people could. There was a way to read a transcript of that somehow. But he testified right after we had Carmen, then Robert Crozier, and then this detective. And he was a guy that worked the streets, that was on the ground for the last 15, 20 years and knew the drug trade inside and out. And the piece that really kind of impacted me the most was where he talked about at the time that Corey was purchasing fentanyl from Carmen. There was no oxycodone on the streets. It was so well controlled. The DEA and the pharmaceutical industry had really controlled that prescription oxycodone purchasing on the street. And he said, you never found it. He never busted a dealer with prescription oxycodone. Everything at the time was fentanyl. And it was made to look exactly like the oxycodone 30s, the M 30s, or the blues that Carmen spoke about. And so for me, even though Carmen and Robert Crozier maybe had some inconsistencies and some memory deficiencies, I just felt like knowing that what was actually being sold on the street at that time, according to a guy who was doing a lot of buy sell drug work, that everything was fentanyl, that was really powerful to me and really cemented in my mind that whatever those two said or didn't remember exactly. Precisely. Right. We were confident by his testimony that it was going to be fentanyl that was found.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

That's. That's crazy. Yeah, we were very curious about that. And maybe, you know, if she appeals Which I'm sure she will. We'll be able to read that transcript one day. I don't know if they'll keep it under. Under wraps or not.

[Christy Halverson]

I hope not. It was a great testimony. He was a great witness.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

So walk the dog letter. Tell us about that. Okay, so you got. You only got to see part of it, correct? During. Yeah, during the. During the jury trial. But then after that, you've been able to read the rest of it, right? The unredacted version?

[Christy Halverson]

Yes, I've now read the unredacted version. And at the time, we did not know that that was taken from her jail cell. We were told as jurors that it was found in a book among her possessions, and we just assumed in one of the searches of the house. They. It. It makes more sense reading the letter now that it was something she was writing while she was in jail. And it was. That was huge. That was a huge piece of evidence for me that just spoke so heavily to her guilt. It. It was devastating. I think she could have gotten herself off if there was truth to that, that Eric was buying drugs in Mexico and then told her brother all about it. Why. Why didn't this come up? And obviously, it didn't come up because it was her fabricating a story and her trying to find a way to get out of trouble after the fact.

[Dave Aronberg]

Did the defense lawyers lose credibility in trying to explain that away as a fictionalized book? Did they lose credibility in your mind?

[Christy Halverson]

Absolutely. There was no credibility to that being a fictionalized version. First of all, she couldn't write her own children's book. She had to hire a ghostwriter to do that.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Aronberg]

Oh, I'm getting to that. I'm gonna ask about that, but go ahead, please.

[Christy Halverson]

So there was no way that that was going to be something that she was starting a novel. And I really don'. If you've spent a couple years in jail and you're on trial for murder, that you're going to then write a novel about that or a story about that. It just seems demented to me to think that that would be something someone would do. So it was obvious that was written in an attempt to get herself out of trouble and to find some plausible explanation for the things that had happened. But it was too late by that point, and I think that was really, really damning evidence.

[Dave Aronberg]

Now, Christy, I think. I thought all along that the book that she wrote showed that this woman was a sociopath, that she wrote a book. And then I didn't know until the trial, that it was ghostwritten, by the way, that she couldn't even do that herself. She paid someone $15,000 to write a book for her. And then she appeared on tv. When you saw that did that just was. Was that was by that point was already a done deal or was this like such a shock shock that it had to turn other jurors at that moment?

[Christy Halverson]

It probably did turn other jurors. For me. It wasn't the absolute shock. It was a shock, but it wasn't the nail in the coffin for me. I was already there. The evidence had already stacked up against her. I felt that this showed kind of the low moral character that Corey had and her inability to be in touch with reality, that she would murder her husband, write a book about grief. She sent the email to the television station herself offering to come on and talk about her book on their show. It wasn't that they somehow had found it in a store and wanted to hear from her. She self promoted this situation and it's just. It makes me ill. It makes me sick for her boys. And I just, I just think it's so narcissistic and so sad.

[Dave Aronberg]

Did the other jurors discuss it in the deliberation room? Was that a big topic of discussion of the book and her appearance on tv? It was a.

[Christy Halverson]

It was a topic. I don't think it was as huge of a piece of evidence for us because it didn't indicate there wasn't any evidence that. That played into her murdering her husband. I think that was evidence of kind of the type of person that she was. But it didn't factor in hugely into our finding her guilty. But it was, it was just kind of disgusting. It just felt really sad and it made us feel sorry for her.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah, definitely. So what'd you think of the judge?

[Christy Halverson]

I love Judge.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

We all liked him.

[Christy Halverson]

It's really quite funny to me to see all the things on Instagram now and TikTok calling him Judge Daddy and everybody had a great temperament. He really did. And I just think he what impressed me. I've never been in a courtroom. I've never sat through a trial. I've never watched any, you know, true crime trials play out. So for me, I was really impressed with his ability to be so fair to both sides. I felt like so many times he ruled on things and he never seemed to weigh one side or the other and just tried to take the law and apply that the best way that he could and in the fairest way. And I just was blown away. By his ability to remember the information and keep track of everything and keep everybody in line. And I loved him. I thought he was fantastic.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Wow. Well, my last question is about sentencing. I know, Dave, you may have some other questions before I ask about sentencing.

[Dave Aronberg]

That was going to be my last question. So.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Yeah. So what are your thoughts on how this judge, we all agree is great, will sentence her, how he will and how he should and if. Did you guys talk about that at all? You know, I'm curious if you guys talked about.

[Christy Halverson]

We did. We did talk about the implications of sentencing. It was brought up by one of my fellow jurors where they express a remorse and said, we are taking her away from her boys. They've lost a dad and now they're going to lose a mom. And. And I actually did pipe up at that comment and I said, we didn't take away their mom. This has nothing to do with us. She did. She made these choices. She got herself to this point. I don't know what the law says. I. I know when we did meet with Judge M. After everything was all done, he came in and sat down with us and was just wonderful. We were able to ask him a lot of questions. He told us some of the evidence that hadn't to be admitted. And he said that the first count is 25 to life or life in prison, just for the first count. So I would imagine, having been found guilty of all of them, that she's looking at quite a bit of time in prison and. And she probably ought to. I. I heard after the fact that her mom is also potentially being investigated for having a partner die the same way. And I just wonder if the public might be best served if Corey is not let out again. I definitely think that would probably help the Richards family. I just don't know what should be. I. I am so glad I'm not in a position to have to decide that. Yeah, that would be awful.

[Dave Aronberg]

That was a big topic of conversation on the Internet. Was the mother how she lost her partner by apparently a. A poisoning, drug overdose. Oxycodone was found next to the. Next to the chair, I think on a table next to the bed. So perhaps the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. But I gotta tell you, Christy, you have been amazing. I was just awesome. Lapping it up, all this wisdom.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Thank you so much.

[Christy Halverson]

Oh, you guys are so kind. Thank you so much.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Thank you for serving too. It's difficult. We definitely understand how much of a sacrifice and how traumatic it is is because what you said is true. You know, that's. Nobody wins in these situations. That's the thing with trials. Nobody ends up winning.

[Christy Halverson]

So.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

And you got to carry that.

[Christy Halverson]

It was, yeah, it was a weight to carry the whole time of the trial and to not be able to talk about it with anybody, not be able to share anything with my husband every day at the end of court, it was, it was a, it was tough. But I feel like we did the right thing and I feel like we performed our duty with open minds and with good hearts and served to the best of our ability. And I'm grateful for having had the opportunity.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Well, thank you for doing that and thank you for sharing it with us. It's been extremely insightful, so we really appreciate your time.

[Christy Halverson]

Yeah, you are most welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

[Dave Aronberg]

Thank you. Christy Halverson, an amazing guest and an even better juror number three. Well done, Christy. And next will be our closing arguments and your questions. So stay tuned. Support is available 247 with VRBO care.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help because a great trip

[Dave Aronberg]

starts with the right support.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Cozy Earth makes relaxing at home easy with their unbelievably soft robes and slippers. The fabric is breathable, lightweight and incredibly comfortable. It's the kind of robe you put on and immediately feel more relaxed. And their slippers have this plush shearling lining with supportive footbeds so they're warm, comfortable, and easy to wear around the house all day. With Mother's Day coming up, Cozy Earth makes an amazing gift, something she'll actually use and appreciate every single day. And here's the best part. Cozy Earth packs everything with a hundred night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty. So you can try it completely risk free. Free. Go to cozyearth.com and use code Megan for 20% off. That's cozyearth.com promo code Megan for 20% off. And if you see the post purchase survey, please mention you heard about Cozy Earth from this show. Welcome back to MK True Crime. Now it's time for our closing arguments. But first, your questions from Sanjita. Hello, team. I just had to pause Friday's episode when Dave said that trying to stab someone with a spoon isn't intent to murder, but machete is. I feel like Dave hasn't seen Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, where the Sheriff of Nottingham, the great and late Alan Rickman, threatens to cut someone else's heart out with a spoon because it would hurt more.

[Dave Aronberg]

I'm gonna cut your heart out with a Spoon. Then it begins, ends. Why a spoon, cousin? Why not an axe? Because it's dull, you twit. It'll hurt more.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

You can argue that in closing.

[Dave Aronberg]

Dave, I, I, that was, that was just brilliant, first off. Thank you, Sanjita. The great question. I did see the movie. I just forgot about it. It's been so long. I remember Kevin Costner, the star of the movie, couldn't keep up his accent throughout the movie. I think he, he kept, like, having an American versus British accent. Just make up your mind, dude. And as far as that, that was great, except I think it cost our show a bunch of money and royalties now, so, hey, it's worth it, Sanjita. You're worth it.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

I love it. Well, Dave, I'm going to do my closing argument, and then you can get on your rant.

[Dave Aronberg]

All right, let's do it.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

All right. Well, so recently, on February 23rd of 2026, a judge here in Fulton county, and for those that have been watching everything transpiring over the last couple of years, Fulton county is the Atlanta Jury, Atlanta, Georgia, area where Fani Willis prosecuted President Trump and some other people. But that's where we learned all about Fani Willis. So that's why I'm talking about Fulton County. So recently, on February 23, 2026, Fulton County Judge Sharmilla Williams stepped down from the bench, but not quietly. She stepped down after being found guilty of some serious misconduct by what's called a jury of her peers, which would be some other judges and, and figures in the judicial system. And this time, we're not talking about minor lapses. We're not talking about something that is minor that can just be overlooked. We're talking about improper ex parte communications. What does that mean? That means talking to one side without the other. It's a big no, no. Failure to rule, failure to issue rulings, which is kind of what a judge does. Their whole job is to rule. So she failed to rule. And also, she illegally arrested and falsely imprisoned a witness, a daughter, in a family divorce, custody battle. She imprisoned that girl as a witness and put her in the Fulton county holding cells. She also used her prestige of her office for personal gain. It was not a close call. This was a complete collapse of the justice system. And she was found guilty by the panel of all of these charges. And it was going up to our Supreme Court for her to be sanctioned. So when the writing was on the wall, what did she do when removal by the Georgia Supreme Court was inevitable? She didn't fight it. She Resigned not out of accountability, but trying to salvage what she had left of her career, her law license, and her future. But because that resignation, in that moment, was not accountability, it was damage control. But here is what is hard to ignore about what happened. The same lawyer who represented her, Gabe Banks, also represented a key figure in the Fani Willis, Nathan Wade controversy. Represented one of the witnesses who tried to quash one of my subpoenas so that that witness wouldn't have to testify. And guess what? This lawyer's wife also happens to be a top administrator for none other than Fani Willis. So what happens next? Well, this former judge, she's now former, found to have abused her power, violated basic due process rights, legal duties, and unlawfully jailed someone. Is hired by none other than Fani Willis to do what? Prosecute criminal cases. Let that sink in. A judge who just broke the rules is now being charged with enforcing them. A judge who violated the rights of people is now charged with protecting them. At some point, this stops being a coincidence and it starts raising serious concerns and questions about judgment, accountability, and who we trust to yield the power in the justice system. Dave, take it away.

[Dave Aronberg]

Ashley has a very powerful closing statement. And you and I both, without communicating with each other, we both are doing our closing statements about judges.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

So let that sink in.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, well, you know, we do give judges enormous power in our justice system, and we expect back from them fairness, integrity, patience, and a dose of humility. Admittedly, it can be tough for many people to remain humble when everyone addresses you as your honor. You get to wear a black robe and carry a big gavel. It can be tough to stay humble when everyone in a room rises upon your entry and is only allowed to sit when you say so. The many good judges out there deserve our praise as well as our gratitude. But when judges demonstrate boorish conduct, they deserve to be called out just like the rest of us. If you've seen the viral video currently blowing up out there from Harris County, Texas, you know exactly why the public is losing faith in the system. Judge Nathan Milleron, who won his seat by razor thin margin of just 304 votes, decided to use his bench not to deliver justice, but to deliver a lecture to an IT worker who was just there to fix his computer. Let's play the clip. She don't. And you're disjointed from the audio here, right? Yeah, should be.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

You see?

[Dave Aronberg]

Sorry, Mariah, did I make this up? Five seconds. One second. You don't have to go far. You're disjoined okay. And you're good. Okay.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

False alarm.

[Dave Aronberg]

No, it wasn't a false alarm. False negative. Don't joke around. I'm serious about this. It was happening. I can. I understand. I'm just saying I can't see it.

[Christy Halverson]

Sir.

[Dave Aronberg]

We're good. Thank you. Get out of my courtroom. And then the judges. The judge throws out a few curse words.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

Jesus Christ. Sick and tired of this today.

[Dave Aronberg]

So because the technician had the audacity to call a technical fix a, quote, false alarm, the judge verbally dressed him down, threw him out of the courtroom and started cursing on a live feed. It was a stunning display of judicial hubris. Here's a lesson for Judge Milleron and anyone else who gets a little too comfortable. People in that black robe, be nice to the people you see on the way up, because I guarantee you, you're going to see them again on the way down. Judges are incredibly important to our system, but they lose their moral standard the second they start acting important. So let's hope this national spotlight makes this judge rethink his behavior and become a better jurist and more importantly, a better person.

[Ashleigh Merchant]

That's my closing statement, and thank you so much, Dave. And thank you to our guest, Christy Halverson. It was an amazing session with that former juror from the Corey Richards trial. Thank you so much, Dave. And thank you for joining us. Have a great week.