Luigi Fights to Toss Evidence, Brian Walshe Murder Trial Begins, and Mystery of Missing Football Coach

Summary

MK True Crime – Episode Summary

Podcast: MK True Crime
Host: Jonna Spilbore (with Dave Aronberg & Mark Iglarsh)
Date: December 3, 2025
Episode Focus: Analysis and commentary on three major current cases: Luigi Mangione’s attempts to suppress evidence in the United Healthcare CEO murder case, Brian Walshe’s murder trial of his wife Anna, and the disappearance of football coach Travis Turner following child exploitation charges.

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Main Theme

This episode dives deep into three headline-grabbing true crime stories, dissecting the latest legal maneuvers and trial strategies for Luigi Mangione’s high-profile Manhattan murder, breaking down the strange defense in the Brian Walshe trial, and speculating on the fate of missing coach Travis Turner. Expert attorneys bring their candid, sharp, and sometimes humorous perspectives to bear on the legal and human drama, while also tackling listeners’ questions about legal procedures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Luigi Mangione: Battle to Suppress Evidence in CEO Murder

(Main discussion: 01:54–18:53)

• Background: Luigi Mangione stands accused of murdering United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in a shocking, caught-on-video daylight attack. He faces both state and federal charges, with the federal case holding out the possibility of a death penalty.

• Central Legal Issue: Mangione’s defense has filed multiple suppression motions aiming to exclude key physical evidence (a 3D-printed gun, a manifesto, etc.) found in his backpack, claiming improper search (lack of a warrant) and Miranda rights violations.

• Search Legality:

  • Dave Aronberg: “If he has stuff on his person or in arm's reach, like his backpack, you can search it incident to an arrest. So I don't see any success in that argument.” (05:25)
  • The consensus is that the search fits within the "search incident to arrest" exception, especially given plausible safety threats (fear of a bomb).

• Miranda Concerns:

  • Dave Aronberg: Suggests any pre-arrest statements are likely safe for the prosecution, as conversations appeared voluntary and not custodial.

• Suppression Odds & Impact:

  • Mark Iglarsh: Judges rarely suppress core evidence, especially in high-profile cases: “Judges generally don't grant these motions, right? Statistically, they just don't. And especially in a high profile case like this, this judge doesn't want to be in the headlines— 'Judge throws out damning evidence.'” (07:17)

  • Even if some evidence is tossed, video footage and other evidence remain strong; prosecutors likely retain a viable path to conviction.

• Prosecution Overcharging & Public Sentiment:

  • The terrorism charge was dropped, which the panelist feels was prosecutorial overreach intended to elevate the case.
  • Panelists express unease at the cult-following Mangione has attracted: “...it's just horrific that there are people celebrating his murder and making this guy into a hero.” (09:57, Aronberg)

• Jury Selection Worries:

  • Mark Iglarsh raises the specter of “stealth jurors”–people with an agenda who lie to get on the jury and may hang it based on ideology rather than law. (11:14–12:13)

• Plea Deal Possibilities:

  • Iglarsh predicts an eventual global plea, especially considering Mangione faces a federal death penalty. “Once the judge denies all those requests, which I know that he will, then there'll be a discussion… do you want to spend your days on, you know, with everybody else, general population, get life, or do you want to potentially get the death penalty?” (12:54)
  • Aronberg: “This is such a high profile case that it's hard to imagine the federal government's going to accept a plea deal that is anything short of the death penalty.” (14:05)
  • Panel wager: Iglarsh bets life in prison will be the end result, Aronberg predicts the Feds won't settle for less than death (16:55).

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2. Brian Walshe: Odd Defense in Wife’s Murder Trial

(21:32–29:36)

• Case Facts: Brian Walshe is on trial for killing his wife, Anna Walshe, whose body has never been found. Strangely, he has pleaded guilty to dismembering and concealing her body, but not to murder.

• Defense Theory: Walshe claims Anna died suddenly (natural or unexplained causes), which led to him dismembering and disposing of her out of panic, not guilt—“sudden unknown death” defense.

  • Jonna Spilbore: “How his defense attorney stated this in opening statement with a straight face… I just decided to cut her up and get rid of her body, not tell anyone…” (21:32)
  • Mark and Dave both ridicule this as desperate and illogical.

• Evidence and Motive:

  • Abandoned luxury purse cited as a red flag ("Try prying my Prada out of my old dead hands." [24:35])
  • Extremely incriminating Google searches (“How long does DNA last?”, “Can you throw away body parts?”, “Best tool to dismember…” [25:59–26:47]) read aloud for comic effect.
  • Mark Iglarsh: “That is so damning… I would argue there's no way he did that. Somebody manufactured that evidence because it's so damn good.” (26:47)

• General Consensus: The panel views the defense as a Hail Mary with no real chance of persuading rational jurors. (“Would you agree that for a split second, because we're attorneys, we might say, dang, somebody's gonna think I did this, Right?... What's your next step? You ain't getting a hacksaw, baby.” [27:56–28:03])

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3. Travis Turner: The Missing Coach Mystery

(32:54–41:19)

• Case Overview: High school football coach Travis Turner fled into the woods with a gun the same day police closed in on child sexual abuse material charges. He’s not been seen since (as of the show airing).

• Panel Theories:

  • Dave Aronberg: “This reminds me of Brian Laundrie… I think he probably is dead.” (34:43–35:45)

  • Mark Iglarsh: “He can't spend any time in prison for that. So that's it. We're not going to see him again…” (36:44)

  • Jonna Spilbore: Posits a Hollywood scenario—maybe he was framed, referencing the TV show “Malice”—but acknowledges it’s a stretch.

    • “Something about this case is telling me that somebody else is lying… What if somebody's framing him and now he's got to figure out what the heck…” (37:32)

• Debate on Possibility of Innocence:

  • Dave and Mark both think reality is more likely suicide/hiding than an elaborate frame job, though recall the real case of NBA player Birdman Chris Anderson, who was briefly but falsely accused/prominent case of being framed (40:09).

  • Consensus: If truly innocent, he’d stay and fight rather than disappear armed into the wilderness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On police searching Mangione’s backpack:

  • “You can search it incident to an arrest. So I don’t see any success in that argument.” — Dave Aronberg, (05:25)

• On worship of the accused:

  • “Why do so many people follow this guy, worship this guy, act like he's Jon Bon Jovi, not Luigi Mangione, every time the guy has to appear in court?” — Jonna Spilbore, (09:23)

• On the logic of Walshe’s defense:

  • “Could you even float that kind of defense?” — Jonna Spilbore, (23:20)
  • “It's the best defense, but... one that will not work, one that defies logic.” — Mark Iglarsh, (23:23)

• On damning online searches:

  • “This guy is so guilty. The fact that they decided this new defense… shows how desperate they are.” — Dave Aronberg, (25:31)

• On missing coach Turner:

  • “It’s the prevent defense, if you’re a football coach—this time it prevents you from getting caught.” — Dave Aronberg, (35:45)

• On defending the unpopular:

  • “Any evidence that's obtained by law enforcement should be subjected to scrutiny... Let's have a little bit more respect. Because what defense lawyers are doing is delivering due process.” — Mark Iglarsh, (52:10)

• On Bryan Kohberger’s jail complaints:

  • “Bryan Kohberger isn't the first inmate to complain about prison perks... Hey, buddy, it's prison, not the Golden Corral, for Christ's sake.” — Jonna Spilbore, (54:59–55:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Luigi Mangione: Evidence Suppression, Plea Debates
  01:54 – 18:53

• Brian Walshe Murder Trial
  21:32 – 29:36

• Travis Turner Missing Coach
  32:54 – 41:19

• Listener Mailbag: Bench Trials vs. Jury Trials
  45:49 – 48:04

  • “Bench trials are trials where the judge determines what the facts are and whether you're guilty or not. A jury trial is when you pick either six or 12 jurors... The reason why I don't typically do a bench trial is because I don't know what the judge will do with a jury.” — Mark Iglarsh, (45:49)

• Closing Arguments

  • Fight against anti-Semitism: Dave Aronberg on Herzog Park, Dublin
    48:47 – 51:34
  • Defense lawyers and due process: Mark Iglarsh
    52:10 – 54:26
  • On Bryan Kohberger and the Eighth Amendment: Jonna Spilbore
    54:55 – 57:59

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Listener Q&A

Question: Difference between a jury trial and a bench trial, and when to choose which.

• Bench trials: judge as fact-finder, better for legally or emotionally complicated cases where jury prejudice is likely (e.g., child pornography).
• Jury trials: more typical, require unanimity, only need one juror to hang the case, usually preferred unless judge tips hand (45:49–48:04).

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Closing Arguments Roundtable

Dave Aronberg:

Calls out anti-Semitic efforts to erase Herzog Park in Dublin, Ireland, highlights the importance of public pushback against such intolerance, and celebrates the resulting victory for decency and truth (48:47–51:34).

Mark Iglarsh:

Defends the defense bar’s obligation to challenge tainted evidence and uphold due process, even in unpopular cases. It's about ensuring convictions stand up to appeal and constitutional standards, not excusing criminality (52:10–54:26).

Jonna Spilbore:

Satirizes frivolous prison complaints (with a rant about Bryan Kohberger’s dislike of jail bananas), poking fun at the misuse of the Eighth Amendment and the taxpayer burden of trivial lawsuits from notorious inmates (54:55–57:59).

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Highlighted Themes & Tone

• Legal Analysis with Color and Authenticity: The attorneys blend technical breakdowns with humor and directness.
• Respect for Due Process: Even for the most reviled, the principles of law matter.
• Skepticism and Street Smarts: The hosts approach each case with a lawyer’s suspicion and a commentator's wit.
• Engagement with Listeners: Thoughtful answers to audience questions demystify legal concepts.
• Vivid, Candid Personality: The hosts’ banter and individual styles shine throughout.

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For Listeners:

If you missed the episode, this summary covers all the main legal issues, strategic speculation, and personality-driven commentary that make MK True Crime a leader in the field—no need to listen for the ads or fluff. The panel’s mix of irreverence, expertise, and plain talk offers both the facts and the flavor behind these active cases.

Transcript

[Announcer]

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[Jonna Spilboard]

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[Dave Aronberg]

Big difference.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Trademarked, of course. And Mark Iglarsh, former prosecutor, current criminal defense attorney, fashion mogul and The Pickleball Wizard. Not trademark who you can find at speak to mark.com. okay, guys, we're gonna start with Luigi Mangioni because there's no shortage of fun facts there. Okay, so as most people within the sound of our voice knows, Luigi Mangione is the man who is accused in both state and federal court of murdering in cold blood. Because most of us saw it with our own eyes. The CEO of United Healthcare, Brian Thompson, who happens to be a father of two. And we have seen the video and we're going to roll that thought in a minute of a dark, shadowy figure figure coming up behind Brian Thompson in the middle of a busy Manhattan street early in the morning, shooting him coldbloodedly in the back. Well, a year later on the state case. His defense team has filed a slew of motions, as we normally do in most cases, murder or otherwise, to suppress the evidence that is going to be used at trial. If the prosecution is successful and they beat this motion.

[Mark Iglarsh]

And.

[Jonna Spilboard]

And that evidence includes things such as the 3D printed gun that was in his backpack. His backpack. A manifesto that was also collected out of his backpack, and some other acutrans for this murder that he clearly planned and then carried out. Now the defense team is saying, look, there was some contact that he had with police where he was not Mirandized, but he was asked a series of questions. And also that when police at the time of the arrest dug into his backpack, they shouldn't have done so without a warrant. Now, you guys know we file these motions as defense attorneys all the time. Sometimes they're successful, sometimes not. But what do you think the game plan is here? And I say this specifically because we have seen the shadowy figure killing this man by shooting him in the back. Even if all the other evidence is suppressed, meaning it can't be used at trial, don't you think the prosecution still has enough to get a conviction? Let's go first to the Florida lawman. Tm that's you, Dave Aronberg.

[Dave Aronberg]

John, my question is, when did they search the backpack? Was that incident to an arrest, in which case it's fine, or did they dig through it before they made the arrest? That's my first question to you.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Yeah, and so we're going to argue that it was a search incident to arrest. It kind of happened contemporaneously. And the police justified the search incident to arrest, which in and of itself is an exception to the warrant rule, by saying they were afraid there could be a, quote, bomb in there. Frankly, that's a legitimate fear when, you know, you are investigating somebody who pulled a gun out on a Manhattan street like you guys. I know you've all been to New York City. I have a place there. I work there. That's in cold blood in front of everybody. That's a legitimate fear because a person who's going to do that is likely going to either kill more or kill himself. So I get that, but what do you think, Dave?

[Dave Aronberg]

Oh, I think it's totally legit. I mean, it is, as you correctly say, it is an exception to the warrant requirement. If he has stuff on his person or in arm's reach, like his backpack, you can search it incident to an arrest. So I don't see any success in that argument. But as far as whether he made statements that were not Mirandized, meaning that he was not given his right to remain silent in advance. He doesn't have to unless it's custody. And I suspect they just had a pretty informal conversation. Apparently they talked for 30 minutes before there was an arrest and he voluntarily compliance. So much for an Ivy League education. Maybe he should have taken criminal law as part of his Ivy League education. But instead, I guess he was researching 3D gun manufacturing. So this guy deserves everything he's getting now. But he has good lawyers and they're going to put up a fight, even though I think the prosecution has him dead to rights.

[Sponsor Voice]

Mark?

[Mark Iglarsh]

Yeah, I agree with. Let's agree with the Florida law man.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Yeah, but let's strip it down. Let's say, let's play a game. Let's suppose the gun gets suppressed. It probably won't, but that's hypothetically, right? Gun? No gun. Manifesto? No manifesto. We have video of a shadowy figure. And I'm sure that there's more video because you're in New York City showing his actual face. Why do I know that? Because when the police identified him and when everybody identified him, first thing they went to were his eyebrows. Similar to Coburger. Right? The eyebrows are very distinctive. So let's say we strip that out, we strip out the notes, we strip out all that stuff. Is there enough to convict anyway? Like, what is the point here, right?

[Mark Iglarsh]

Well, listen, they got a case, even made statements to jailhouse employees who weren't part of the investigative team. He couldn't wait to tell them certain things.

[Jonna Spilboard]

They.

[Mark Iglarsh]

And I think that those statements are going to come in. The defense attorney attacked as really? You didn't write that in a report. And he made these, you know, statements or admissions. Yeah, I didn't write it down, but I do remember him saying it. So let's also understand now, I'm taking away the hypothetical. In the real world, judges generally don't grant these motions, right? Statistically, they just don't. And especially in a high profile case like this, this judge doesn't want to be in the headlines. Judge throws out damning evidence in the Luigi Mangioni murder trial. So if it's even a close call, he's going to rule in favor of the prosecution. But secondly, inevitable discovery. Meaning that let's say he wasn't under arrest and they found this stuff because they're concerned that there might be a bomb in his bag. And let's say even the judge thinks that that's not reasonable, which it clearly is, especially knowing this guy's background, they would have inevitably figured out who this guy was. They would have inevitably placed him under arrest, stripped him of his liberty, and then done a search of the backpack pursuant to lawful arrest, inventoried it, and would have come up with the evidence that clearly seals his fate.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Don't you think though, that at this level, the trial judge can't get into the whole inevitable discovery or harmless error? Like, do you think that's going to be preserved on appeal? And remember, Luigi Mangione already got a win at this level. He got a win because the terrorism charges were tossed. Which is interesting that they're not also trying to talk about some sort of deal. Instead they're just trying to strip this case even more. So. Yeah, so I don't think it's going to be successful. But even if it is, the prosecution still has a, A case, right? I mean, and look at these fans. I want to talk about that for a minute. One of the things that chaps my butt about this case, other than the fact that, look, I get the whole. We don't love the health insurance industry, right? I have, it's my health insurance company. Millions of us have this health insurance company. I don't love it. But that doesn't mean the person who leads the band needs to get offed in the middle of a street, right? And a father of two, why, why do so many people follow this guy, worship this guy, act like he's Jon Bon Jovi, not Luigi Mangione, every time the guy has to appear in court. I, I personally don't get it. Do you? What is it, Dave?

[Mark Iglarsh]

You want to grab that?

[Dave Aronberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Ready to jump in? Go.

[Dave Aronberg]

This is the culture where we are in right now, where it's us against them, it's skins versus shirts. And it's this part of our culture where you fight against insurance executives and by any means necessary. And it really, there's no sense of proportion here. I mean, this Brian Thompson was a father of two. And it's just horrific that there are people celebrating his murder and making this guy into a hero. But these are the same people who celebrate Hamas, you know, like, hey, check yourself, man. These are murderers. We do not celebrate them. And at some point in your lifetime, those who celebrate these terrorists or murders, you're gonna have a day of reckoning yourself. You're gonna realize that this is not the role model you wanna be to your own children. And so, yes, I understand where the passions are, but to take it to justify murder. And also, John, you're right, they've got so much evidence against this guy that even if the defense lawyers, and they're great lawyers, punch holes in the state's case, and the state did overcharge with the terrorism charge to elevate it to first degree murder, they shouldn't have done that. Don't overcharge. Right. As a prosecutor, you lose credibility with a jury. But okay, but even if they punch holes in the state case, the state case is still very strong. And remember, there's still a federal prosecution sitting out there waiting for this case to be done. And they, unlike New York, will be able to get the death penalty.

[Mark Iglarsh]

All right, so here are my concerns. If you've got idiots, and I don't mind calling them that, who are out there somehow justifying murder because they didn't get their claims met by insurance companies, which are two completely separate issues, but if you want to go out there and protest and wear stupid suits out on the street, you go right ahead. That's what makes our country great. But yeah, I'm glad we're showing these morons. Okay, but what, what concerns me is these are the same people, metaphorically, who are getting notices to serve as potential jurors. And I'm concerned about stealth jurors. It's always my concern. Stealth jurors are those who claim they can be fair. Sure, judge, I can follow the law. Absolutely. I'd be a perfect juror. And by what they really mean is I have an agenda. I can't wait to get in there and be that one person who hangs this jury up and tries to convince the other ones to go my way. So that really concerns me in this case.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Do you think? So as a practical matter, let's talk to the audience a little bit about this. Like, we see the pomp and the circumstance, right. And the people outside the court, and we get all that and then the, the press conferences afterwards. But in real life, not that that's not real life. When we have non infamous clients, we often try to strike deals. And we do that for a number of reasons. Sometimes the evidence, like in this case, Personally, I think there's a, a whole ton of evidence against this guy. And sometimes it's in the best interest of the client. In this case, though, do you think we will never see a plea agreement in this case?

[Mark Iglarsh]

The opposite.

[Jonna Spilboard]

The opposite of the opposite.

[Mark Iglarsh]

The 100%, I'm telling you right now, 100%. Okay. Why hasn't he pled. Because we don't know what the evidence will ultimately be and they have to do Their job. So the defense lawyers are doing what they're supposed to do. They're challenged the constitutionality of, of the statements and the. And the seizure of those items. Once the judge denies all those requests, which I know that he will, then there'll be a discussion with Mangione. Hey, dude, you're still facing the death penalty in federal court. We're going to lose here in state court. Maybe not those words, but something like that, that lets him know, look, I'm not a yes man. You know, we don't have David Copperfield. We can't make all the evidence disappear. So we will lose this case. Do you want to spend your days on, you know, with everybody else, general population, get life, or do you want to potentially get the death penalty? What would you like me to do? And then there'll be serious plea discussions.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Don't you agree, Dave, that the plea discussions will have to be global? You can't plead in the state court and not plead in the federal court. Right. If you're. Then you might as well just roll a dice and go to trial on both.

[Dave Aronberg]

I agree.

[Jonna Spilboard]

It's going to have to be global.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah. There's politics at play here. This is such a high profile case that it's hard to imagine the federal government's going to accept a plea deal that is anything short of the death penalty. And that's why they're pursuing this case. They want the death penalty. They don't trust Alvin Bragg and state prosecutors there in New York to do it. Right. So I don't see a plea deal happening. Even if Mangione wants to say, all right, I'll accept guilt and spend the rest of my life in prison. I think this thing is going to try. No, I think there's too much of a political, holistic.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Hold on, hold on, Dave. Honestly, you don't think the feds would waive the death penalty if he agrees to take life and gives up his right to appeal and then he goes bye bye and he's never back in the public. You really think the feds would say no on this guy? With no priors and the stealth jurors and all the potential mitigation evidence, you don't think that they would take life.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Go get him, Dave.

[Dave Aronberg]

Here's the thing. Remember, look at the background of where we are. Bryan Coburger did just that. And think of the criticism.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Thank you for helping me.

[Dave Aronberg]

Outrage, right. The outrage at prosecutors for doing that for a quadruple murder. When Madeline Soto's boyfriend, that guy Stearns, a Despicable individual child pornography murdered this poor girl also. Well, except not even accepting full responsibility, getting life in prison as prosecutors took the death penalty off the table. It has not been a good time for prosecutors to. To cut deals. I think, especially with this case, which is so high profile, everyone has an opinion that for the prosecutors at the federal level, who didn't even have to come in and intervene in this matter, to say, all right, you know what? Just plead guilty. We'll put this off to the side. No way they want this guy's head on a wall as a trophy. I think they're going to the mat until they get a conviction and the death penalty.

[Jonna Spilboard]

I'm on team Dave with this one. As much as I love purple, as much as I love your sense of fashion.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Really?

[Jonna Spilboard]

Yes, I am.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Really, Luigi.

[Dave Aronberg]

No.

[Mark Iglarsh]

We're going to reject your desire to spend the rest of your life in prison waiving all appeals, giving closure to everyone with a very expensive state trial with his, which with an uncertain ending with appeals that will go on and on and on for years. Right. You guys don't think that someone will come to their senses and say, all right, let's both leave the negotiating table. Not getting exactly what we want.

[Jonna Spilboard]

The feds didn't have to charge him at all. Right. The feds got involved for.

[Mark Iglarsh]

They did it because it's a clear chess match move. Right. The only reason why he'd consider taking a plea is because he's worried about being on death row. That's the move. And then you pull that away, and he gets life. Case closed. Both cases closed. Well, if I predict that that's what's going to happen, that I see it.

[Jonna Spilboard]

So clearly, if the. You want to. We'll put a little wager on it.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Let's go.

[Dave Aronberg]

I want some of that action.

[Jonna Spilboard]

You want some of that action? I'm cheap. It's only going to be like, five bucks. Because, listen, even if the feds take it to trial and they. They lose on the punishment phase, they're going to get them on the guilt phase. So their worst case scenario is what the deal would be. But they don't get to send the same message if they accept a plea bar.

[Mark Iglarsh]

You're saying. Hold on. You're saying that it's a slam dunk that. That all 12 jurors in the penalty phase of the federal trial, in the guilt phase.

[Jonna Spilboard]

In the guilt phase.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Guilt we got. So he's got life, but it's not a slam dunk at all that he's going to get the death penalty.

[Jonna Spilboard]

I agree with that statement.

[Dave Aronberg]

Right.

[Jonna Spilboard]

I agree with that statement.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Right.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah. But we're talking about politics here. Why did the feds get involved in the first place? They wanted this guy. They wanted to prosecute him. They wanted to show. And they want to try to get him the death penalty. They know he can't get the death penalty in New York. They don't have the death penalty.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Right.

[Dave Aronberg]

So why else would they come in? They're not going to just be satisfied with another plea deal. They want this guy. Like I said, they want his scalp. Because as long as he continues to live in prison, he's going to be a martyr to all these fans out there, and they're going to continue to send him love letters. That's something that this administration and quite frankly, Jon and I really cannot tolerate.

[Jonna Spilboard]

No. Right.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Okay. The horse is dead. We've beaten it. You guys are on one side, I'm on the other. Mark this. This discussion. And again, I'm less certain that man Joni, because I don't know what's in that guy's head, is going to be rational and say, all right, I'll take life. Who knows what he wants out of this whole thing? But if he wants life, as opposed to the going through with a federal trial, I think that they'll concede. They should concede. And then we put this to bed, and then we move on. We don't have to see his mug again.

[Jonna Spilboard]

He wants nothing. He thinks he did the country a favor by sending this sort of message. He's. But he's not Looney Tunes. I don't think they've ordered any sort of examination to see if he's Looney Tunes. But he's. He's not. He's not. Right. But you're right. We're going to put a pin in this.

[Sponsor Voice]

We'll.

[Jonna Spilboard]

We'll. We'll make our bets after the show.

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[Jonna Spilboard]

This is a very strange case and I remember this case when it first hit the airwaves a couple years ago for one specific fact, which I'm going to tell you in a second. So we're going to talk about the case of Brian Walsh who is right now on trial for the murder of his wife Anna Walsh. This is a Massachusetts case. Now I remember this case for two reasons. Number one, Anna's body has never been found. See, that's a picture of her right there in happier times. Her body has never been found. But here's the strange part about this case, you guys. Her husband, even though he's on trial for her murder, has pled guilty to dismembering her body, tampering, whatever, whatever they call it in Massachusetts, he's pled guilty to that, which is an acknowledgment, obviously, that he knows she's dead. But he is claiming, and this is wild, and I don't know how his defense attorney stated this in opening statement with a straight face. His argument is this. Listen, we had a great marriage. Yeah. She had an affair. I was okay with it. I mean, there was no reason to kill her. In fact, the night that she died, we were having a great time. I crawled into bed expecting to, you know, get a little cozy. And all of a sudden she was cold. And wouldn't you know it, there's this thing called sudden unknown death. And that's what happened to her. So instead of calling 911 like a loving husband, I. I just decided to cut her up and get rid of her body, not tell anyone where any of the body parts are. And then I was going to admit to that part, but here we are. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client is innocent. Mark, could you. And I know you're good. Could you even float that kind of defense?

[Mark Iglarsh]

I would have to because that's what my client is telling me to say. And the evidence is overwhelming. It actually is the best defense, but. But one that will not work, one that defies logic. I would feel intellectually dishonest with the jury, but I'm sure they're saying that because the evidence is lacking as to maybe how she died. And is it first degree, second degree, manslaughter, maybe? That's the strong suit here. And clearly there's consciousness of guilt by him chopping up the body. There's no question. But maybe they're lacking. They're lacking in that area of proving exactly what happened. How did that murder go down? And that's what they're going to press on.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Dave, can I tell you why, from the, from the get go, I knew this guy was guilty. I'll tell you why, and you tell me if you agree. Because when they were looking for her body, right, they knew she was missing.

[Dave Aronberg]

She.

[Jonna Spilboard]

She kind of like a high powered real estate agent and her boss or her business was like, we haven't seen her in four days. One of the first things they found that belonged to her abandoned was her Prada purse.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Look how you go there. You're adorable. You are adorable. Look, listen. Listen to her go.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Yeah, try my Prada. Out of my old dead hands.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Yes.

[Jonna Spilboard]

It's not going to end up in a landfill. That's how I knew there was.

[Mark Iglarsh]

That's my Johnna. There we go. Yes.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Well, it's good, John, man.

[Dave Aronberg]

It's a great point. And Mark, if, God forbid, you woke up next to your spouse who had died the previous night.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Right.

[Dave Aronberg]

And what would you do? What would be your first step?

[Mark Iglarsh]

Well, it wouldn't be to chop her up.

[Dave Aronberg]

That's the start with that. That's exactly. That would call me.

[Mark Iglarsh]

No, no, I suspect.

[Dave Aronberg]

I suspect that if you woke up next to a spouse who didn't wake up the next morning, the first instinct would not be, well, I need to hack up the body parts.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Good point.

[Dave Aronberg]

And let's call to try to find out the insurance policies and then let's clean up the basement of all the blood. And all my help with those Internet searches after all this. And John, I know you have access to some of these Internet searches.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Oh, we gotta read those.

[Dave Aronberg]

We gotta read them. But this guy is so guilty. And the fact that they decided this new defense and said, yes, he did hide the body, yes, he did hack up the body parts shows how desperate they are. They knew the state had the goods against them. This is the best they could do. But any rational juror is going to look at this and say, are you serious, man? And then in.

[Mark Iglarsh]

And then in conjunction with, you know, hey, Google, how long does it take for a body to start smelling decomposition?

[Jonna Spilboard]

Go, guys, gather, gather round. We'll go through some of his searches because he's not the smartest murderer in the book. Okay, how long? How long someone has to go missing before you can inherit their assets?

[Dave Aronberg]

Sounds like an innocent guy.

[Mark Iglarsh]

That alone is problematic. Yeah, how.

[Jonna Spilboard]

How long someone has to be missing before they are declared dead? Oh, can you throw away body parts? Google loves answering that. How long does DNA last? Is it possible to clean DNA off a knife? Here's my favorite. How long before a body starts to smell and hacksaw? Best tool to dis member guys.

[Mark Iglarsh]

You know, that is so damning. I. I would argue. I would argue there's no way he did that. Somebody manufactured that evidence because it's so damn good.

[Jonna Spilboard]

You know, we. I don't know if you guys remember there was some good evidence. It actually, I think favored the defendant. Remember, the Karen Reed trial was not that long ago. It feels like it was a while ago. Yeah, there was some good Google evidence that helped her. This definitely does not help him. And I don't know why People don't realize at this point in time that whatever you Google anything you could. Anything. It. It's going to come back to haunt you at some point if somebody wants. Wants to find it.

[Dave Aronberg]

But there's something called incognito mode on Google. You should learn to use it.

[Jonna Spilboard]

It doesn't. I don't even think that works. But I will say this. So let's. Let's say you crawl into bed with your significant other and that person is no longer alive. And maybe, I mean, it has happened. People can have a heart attack, whatever, brain tube, whatever. I would or would you not. Would you agree that for a split second, because we're attorneys, we might say, dang, somebody's gonna think I did this, Right?

[Mark Iglarsh]

Yes, I think that that's fair. That's fair. Keep going. Then.

[Dave Aronberg]

What's your next step?

[Mark Iglarsh]

You ain't getting a hacksaw, baby.

[Dave Aronberg]

No.

[Mark Iglarsh]

There's a big leap before we get the hacksaw.

[Jonna Spilboard]

I'm not getting a hacksaw. I'm not going to call a goon to put the body in trunk and drive it away. My very next move, because we're normal people, would be to call 911 and. Or try to resuscitate, then call 911. Or try to do them both at the same time.

[Mark Iglarsh]

All right, let's make the argument. You just helped the defense a little bit, right? Because let's get into his history. He's not a lawyer, but he is someone with a checkered past. He is a criminal. He sold a fake Andy Warhol painting to some guy who claims he was so credible and believable, he played the role perfectly. So here's a guy who's in the system. He knows that law enforcement will especially think that he was up to no good when his sweet, innocent wife just happened to die. They're going to immediately think it was him. Don't kill the messenger. I'm just making the argument.

[Jonna Spilboard]

I get you, right?

[Mark Iglarsh]

Are you with me? So he, like us lawyers who know they're going to come after him. He knows that they're going to come after him. The guy's on probation. He's like, they're gonna. It's a much lower standard to prove the case. They're going to strip me of my liberty. I'm going to be taken away. So, yes, that's why I pled guilty to dismembering the body, because I did that. It was a poor mistake, but I didn't kill her.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Mark, you are good. And we'll save the fact. I don't know how anybody could physically dismember any body, let alone a body belonging to the person that they love. Like you got to be anyway. You got to be.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Not easy. I had a client who couldn't, couldn't, couldn't do it. He tried and then screw it and he just threw the whole thing away.

[Sponsor Voice]

Horrible.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Thankfully. But we're going to we'll keep up on that case because it is in trial as we as we speak. But next, this case is almost as weird. A high school football coach vanishes into the woods during his team's undefeated season. Now we're going to talk about that when we come back. But remember, you can email us. We love to read your comments and story suggestions. You can shoot us an email@mk true crimevilmaycare media.com and we'll be right back.

[Announcer]

Planning a trip this year? Travel smarter and connect deeper by learning the local language with Rosetta stone. With over 30 years of experience, Rosetta Stone's immersive, intuitive method helps you live the language, not just memorize it. Choose from over 25 languages, including Spanish, French, Japanese and more. Their truaxent speech recognition technology gives real time feedback to help perfect your pronuncia. No translations, just natural learning that builds from words to phrases to full conversations. Whether you have five minutes or an hour, you can learn anytime on desktop or mobile. Get a lifetime membership and unlock all 25 languages. Learn as much as you want, whenever you want. Rosetta Stone Learn confidently. Connect authentically. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential. Now. Listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit Rosetta Stone.com pod50 to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to Rosetta Stone.com pod50 and start learning today. Ondeck is built to back small businesses like yours.

[Mark Iglarsh]

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[Jonna Spilboard]

Welcome back to MK True Crime. Now Travis Turner, a high school football coach from Virginia has been missing since November 20th. Now here's the weird thing you guys. This is truly a missing person's case. What happened? So Travis is a football coach? High school football coach from Virginia. Apparently he's a very winning football coach from Virginia. We don't have all of the skinny on what precipitated this, but we can kind of fill in the blanks as defense lawyers. He must have been the subject of an investigation into child pornography. Sexually explicit material involving children. Not a good look when you are a high school coach. So he gets wind, he must have gotten wind that the investigation was coming for him, that the the police were coming for him because ironically, the day that the investigators were showing up on his doorstep, he beats feet into the woods with, according to his family, a firearm. Now I don't know. They don't say rifle, they don't say handgun. They just say firearm. That was on November 20th. He has not been seen since. And they're looking for him, you guys. They are looking for him. There's a reward obviously, but they haven't told us. We don't have any reports as to whether, you know, is he paying cash? Did he kill himself? Does he have help? Is I want to know, is his family full of baloney? Like they're the ones reporting that he went out into the woods with a gun. But let's look at the source of that information. What do you think is really going on here? Dave?

[Dave Aronberg]

This reminds me of Brian Laundrie Remember that case? Gabby Petito?

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Yeah.

[Dave Aronberg]

You had the family of Brian Laundrie, who was the boyfriend of Gabby Petito, who they said, we don't know where he is. He just took off to the woods, to the swamp lands, and the blame was all on the family. And the family may have been helping him get out of town, but they did find his dead body afterwards. He did kill himself, and I think maybe that's what's happened here. It's hard to hide these days, and he's been gone, even though there's an extensive man hunt for him. So I think he probably is dead. This is what you call, I guess, the prevent defense if you're a football coach, because normally it prevents you from winning. This time it prevents you from getting caught. But eventually your body is going to be found. So whether the family is involved, they have to actively help him escape to be an accessory after the fact. It's not enough that they knew he committed a crime and then turned the other way when he left. They have to actually help him disguise himself or get out of town and then lie, perhaps, to law enforcement. Right now, we have no evidence that that's happened.

[Mark Iglarsh]

So first of all, kudos to my dear friend Dave, who came up with the metaphor of the show so far. The prevent defense. I love that. Brilliant.

[Dave Aronberg]

All right.

[Mark Iglarsh]

I also think that we're not going to see this guy alive. Okay. And again, I'm not certain. But let me put the pieces together first. I think I've handled enough of these cases where they don't just come and have a sense that maybe you've got child porn on your computer and. Or you're soliciting a minor. Usually it's game, set, match. They know he knows. They know he knows. His life as he knows it is over. Best case scenario, he's serving prison time. He's a registered sex offender. He is, you know, public enemy number one. His life is over. He knows it. He knows what he did. So he takes off, enjoys the last few days of normal life before he's, you know, the biggest pariah known to man in the prison system. Because anyone with these charges are the.

[Dave Aronberg]

Lowest of the low.

[Mark Iglarsh]

He can't spend any time in prison for that. So that's it. We're not going to see him again. That's what I believe.

[Jonna Spilboard]

I have a different theory. And I get. And yours makes sense. Both. Both of your theories make sense. Something about this case is telling me that somebody else is lying. I don't know that he walked off into the woods with just a gun. Like if he wanted to die then he could have walked off into the woods with a gun and we'd find the body already. It happened. He left, according to his family, on November 20th. I think there's more here than meets the eye. And this story. Talk about art imitating life. Are any of you watching the show Malice with David Duchovny on. I don't know, what's Amazon prime anyway? One of the streaming services, right? David Duchovny, this high powered business guy and by the way, he's getting up there, but he's still got it. David, if you're listening. So his character, his character gets stalked by this manny, right? This man nanny who ends up infiltrating his email, sends emails to a co worker, sexually suggestive emails to a co worker. He's totally hacked. But now his life starts to implode. One thing leads to another because nobody really believes that it wasn't him. So what if this real life case has that kind of flair? What if somebody's out of framing him and now he's, he's got to figure out what the heck. Because imagine that to you, if somebody did that, you guys, as you're so upstanding and the world loves you and everybody knows that, but if somebody did that to you, it would be frightening. And you know, people be like, john, I love it.

[Mark Iglarsh]

I love it. I don't believe it, but I love it. I love that you kept this fair and balanced by bringing the other side. Because it's the truth. There's some who are framed like the Mona Lisa. I don't think it's this guy. But there are those who, who you know, are actually innocent. And maybe he took off, you're saying because he knew that his life would change instead of his innocence.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Right?

[Mark Iglarsh]

I like it. I like it that we kept it fair and balanced.

[Jonna Spilboard]

And I, I also think his wife might be helping him. She scrubbed her social media and I get why you would do that too. Right, because she'd probably get death threats and you know, horrible messages when something like this happens. So I understand that, but I don't know, there just seems to be something. My spidey senses are just tingling on this one. That's really.

[Dave Aronberg]

Janna, the reason why you bring up David Duchovny in the show is because what you're talking about is Hollywood. We don't see this happening in real.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Life because she's single. Come on, she's got.

[Dave Aronberg]

This is not a thing that happens in real life, where. Yes. It's like the fugitive, he's going to go out there and catch who really did the real killer. When O.J. simpson tries to catch the real killer, he did it. And so all this stuff about, well, he's out there in the woods and he's being framed for a murder for child porn he didn't commit. Yeah, that's Hollywood. That's not reality. And if it is reality, then I will owe you that $5.

[Jonna Spilboard]

No, it's going to be 10. It's going to double or nothing.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Could it. Could it be the rival team that they were going to take in the playoffs that somehow didn't want him to coach? They're winning without him anyway. But.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, you know.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Yeah, Well, I mean, we. I mean, the modern technology this day, you guys, it does scare me that people. Look, I get weird emails from me to me. That doesn't happen to you guys where somebody hacked your email? Well, they say they're Mark Iglish, but they're not.

[Dave Aronberg]

Right. You know, John, it's interesting. You know, there's. It was a player named Chris Anderson for the Miami Heat and other teams. He was called the Birdman. He was tattooed from neck to toe. Colorful guy, Interesting guy. He. His career was put on hold while he was investigated for child pornography. Apparently, investigators found that he was set up by a girl who wanted to get him in trouble and sent him pictures. And he was cleared for it, but he was framed, essentially, and then cleared. It put his career on hold, but then he was able to get his career back on track. So this type of thing does happen, but there's a process to root it out that the truth comes out here. This guy looks like it is what it is.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Jonna Spilboard]

That is the thing. I guess you would have to. If you truly had an abiding conviction in your innocence, you're going to stay and fight. You're not going to go off into the woods with a gun. If that's what he did. I mean, for I. In my. I still think this guy's, like, under his bed. I seriously do. And I might be wrong. But if I'm right, you guys are going to have to buy me a drink. Okay. Do you guys have anything else you want to say about this one? Because we have.

[Mark Iglarsh]

I have something to say. You'll do anything for a drink.

[Jonna Spilboard]

We do. We have more questions and answers on this, so we're just going to have to stay tuned. But I'm glad we're talking about it because it certainly is a weird one. When we come back though your questions, we have a good one. We have a really good one today and our closing arguments. So don't go away.

[Announcer]

Planning a trip this year? Travel smarter and connect deeper by learning the local language with Rosetta stone. With over 30 years of experience, Rosetta Stone's immersive, intuitive method helps you live the language, not just memorize it. Choose from over 25 languages, including Spanish, French, Japanese and more. Their truaxent speech recognition technology gives real time feedback to help perfect your pronunciation. No translations, just natural learning that builds from words to phrases to full conversations. Whether you have five minutes or an hour, you can learn anytime on desktop or mobile. Get a lifetime membership and unlock all 25 languages learn as much as you want, whenever you want. Rosetta Stone Learn confidently. Connect authentically. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential. Now. Listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit Rosetta Stone.com pod50 to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to Rosetta Stone.com pod50 and start learning today.

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[Jonna Spilboard]

We'Re back and we are going to get to to our closing arguments and your mail. But first, did you know you can listen to MK True Crime on the Megyn Kelly channel on Sirius XM as part of Megan's podcast playlist. MK True Crime will air Tuesday at 10am Eastern and Saturdays at 9 and 10am on Sirius XM channel 111. And can I just tell you guys a little funny thing? I'm always listening to Megan's channel in my car and when Siri says you're listening to this channel, it says you're listening to the Medjin Kelly Channel. It doesn't know that it's a hard G. And I laugh every time. But we're gonna have to fix that.

[Sponsor Voice]

Siri.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Okay, so great. That's and that's also fun. I'm loving, by the way, in case you anybody out there, I'm loving the Megyn Kelly Channel. You get all her favorites. You get a lot of Megan. It's a good time no matter when you tune in. So we have a question today from our legal mailbag from a listener. I'm going to say he's in Phoenix, but I'm not sure. His his pseudonym, his moniker. His handle is Feral Phoenix. And I like that for two reasons. I rescue feral cats and I have family in Phoenix. Okay, the question is, can you go over the difference between a jury trial and a bench trial in and which cases are better suited for the bench? There are way too many people that have never heard of the option for a bench trial, which is interesting. So who wants to take that first? I love bench trials, by the way, but who wants to take that first?

[Mark Iglarsh]

I'll start. I typically do not do bench trials. Bench trials are trials where the judge determines what the facts are and whether you're guilty or not. A jury trial is when you pick either six or 12 jurors, depending upon whether you're in state or federal court and what the charges are. And they need a unanimous verdict to find your client guilty. The reason why I don't typically do a bench trial is because I don't know what the judge will do with a jury. All of them have to be unanimous. So if I'm concerned about the evidence, it only takes one to hang the jury up. I will go to a bench trial when the judge kind of tips his or her hand before, like, why are we even going to a trial? This seems state Work this out. Come on. Why are we even? And I get a sense that they're going to go my way.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Yeah, that's a big reason for a bench trial. David, do you have much experience with bench trials? I mean, I know most of the time in criminal defense work, we opt for a jury.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah. In juvenile cases, it's always a bench trial. You don't get a jury. But in adult cases, there's some times where it's an advantage for the defense, when, for example, it's a very inflammatory case, a case involving child pornography. I mean, the jury, once they see or hear about child porn images, that's it for that defendant. I don't care. Anything you say, you're done. Whereas a judge is supposed to be coldly focused on the evidence and the burdens of proof. You can do better there than with a jury who's just going to hang you high.

[Mark Iglarsh]

And maybe you avoid the trial tax, you know, which is the extra amount of time that judges will give you if you waste more of their time having a jury trial. Sometimes you can get the sense that the judge will just maybe stick within the guidelines, not deviate upward. So maybe you want to consider going bench, as we say.

[Jonna Spilboard]

I'm so glad you brought that up. One day we have to do a show where we really focus on the trial tax. Because that is one thing that really chaps my butt. I hate is unlawful. And it happens probably in every courtroom in this country.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Oh, I'm not giving a trial tax. I now had the time to really look at the evidence during the trial, and I'm merely giving the defendant what I believe he or she deserves. Yeah, shut.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Oh, I know. So we, but we're gonna, we could devote an entire show to that. Because I don't. And, and if we think. If this caller watcher viewer thinks that a lot of people don't know what a bench trial is, you'll be surprised to learn about the so called trial tax. So we'll, we'll put a pin in that one for now. All right, guys, this is my favorite part of the show, except when I'm arguing with you too. It's our closing argument where we get to rant for a minute or if you're me 12 on something that's got you bugged. So let's go in alphabetical order by first name. Dave Aronberg.

[Dave Aronberg]

Or you can do it by last name first.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Yeah, right. Works both ways.

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, Jona and Marco is.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Great to be with you.

[Dave Aronberg]

John. Are you Irish?

[Jonna Spilboard]

Part. Yeah.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yes. Well, let's talk about Dublin, Ireland. Not the beautiful history, but the ugly hypocrisy. The cynical, calculated attempt to strip a man's name from a peaceful green space. Herzog park is a modern disgrace. Who is Chaim Herzog? He was born in 1918 in Belfast, which was then part of the United Kingdom and now Northern Ireland. When he was just nine months old, his family moved to Dublin where he grew up. He became a decorated British army major who helped liberate the Bergen Belsen concentration camp. His intelligence background was crucial in interviewing Nazi officers and soldiers captured at the site to gather evidence for future organizations war crime trials. He was an Irish hero and he later immigrated, emigrated to Israel and became the country's president from 1983 to 1993. And it's his connection with Israel from 40 plus years ago is why his name is being targeted for erasure. To try to rename the park taking his name off of it. So we should call this what it is. Anti Semitic, Semitic vandalism. They were gonna change the name of the park to Free Palestine Park. Excuse me. This guy was last president of Israel more than 40 years ago and he was an Irish hero. This is absolutely disgraceful. And you may be wondering, should I protest this blatant anti Semitism by ending my friendship with Janna or Matt Murphy or boycotting Megyn Kelly? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. Collective punishment against Irish Americans for actions by a government thousands of miles away. But that's exactly what Dublin tried to do. And unfortunately, this is not an isolated incident. We are witnessing a terrifying unvarnished surge of anti Jewish sentiment across Ireland. And it's not just in political debates. It's being normalized in parts of the culture. Like the Irish Ban ni cap using their platform to amplify anti Jewish hate. But there is good news and I'd like to end this on a positive note. And that is the. This travesty in Dublin failed. It was ordinary citizens, principled local representatives and community leaders who stood up and said enough. They defended Herzog's name and in doing so they defended the core principles of decency and historical truth. So to those Irish heroes, I say thank you. You reminded us that while the tide of hate may surge, the voices of moral clarity when united can always stop it dead in its tracks. This was a small victory in the fight against global anti Semitism, but I celebrate it as should we all.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Dave, I love the fact that you brought this to our attention because I had no idea. And that means there are probably several other people who didn't have any idea. And I love that this was your net. Thank you for that.

[Dave Aronberg]

Thank you. There was a real movement online, especially on the site formerly known as Twitter, and the hashtag was very prominent. Became number one to fight against this hate. And it really helped. And, and thank God that enough good people in Ireland stood up and said, no, this is a bridge too far.

[Jonna Spilboard]

That's great. Well, they're partly my people. I'm like, I'm like this much Irish, so I'll take some credit. Mark, you got something to say about anything?

[Mark Iglarsh]

Today, criminal defense attorneys, we face a lot of harsh criticism. A lot of it's justified. Certain instances, ooh, what are they doing? But especially in a lot of high profile cases like Luigi Mangione, for example, it's not justified. Many are condemning his lawyers and others like those lawyers, for challenging evidence that they believe was obtained unlawfully. What they're doing is ensuring due process by challenging whether the evidence seized was done in violation of the fourth or fifth amendment of the United States Constitution. If Mangione, for example, is convicted, and I assume that he will be, the first thing he's going to do, like so many other defendants, is find an appellate lawyer who will then allege that his trial attorneys did not do what they were supposed to. Which is why those attorneys must challenge every piece of evidence admitted against him. He will argue they rendered ineffective assistance of counsel, and the appellate court typically will reverse on that issue more than many others. And that's why the defendants allege it's, we don't want a conviction being reversed on appeal. You don't want to have to go through all this. So the defense lawyers should be respected and admired for doing their job. Also, any evidence that's obtained by law enforcement should be subjected to scrutiny. Did they commit an unlawful search and or seizure? Did they violate someone's Miranda rights? And even if it's evidence of guilt, evidence that we really want to go in against Mangione or other defendants, the law, the Constitution, requires that that evidence gets thrown out. So I'm just here to say, enough of the condemnation, enough of the ridicule. Let's have a little bit more respect. Because what defense lawyers are doing is delivering due process.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Amen.

[Dave Aronberg]

Well said.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Another good point. Right? Because. And even though we, I'm not saying we're making fun of the defense lawyers, but we might disagree that they're going to be successful. We have to literally go through the motions. That's our job. That's why we get paid. The big Bucks. And you're right, the purpose is to serve due process. Very well said.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Thank you.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Okay, so we'll. We'll round it out. We'll finish up here in about 39 minutes when I'm done with my.

[Dave Aronberg]

This is the highest rated part of the show. It's your rant.

[Jonna Spilboard]

But this one today is about Brian Kohberger. So convicted quadruple murderer Brian Kohberger has been in his maximum security prison for a hot minute and has already lodged so many complaints, he's earned the nickname jailhouse Karen. The latest, Kohberger is unhappy with the banana selection behind bars. Look, I've never slaughtered a single human being, let alone four defenseless students while they lay sleeping. But if I had, I imagine my prison priorities would be focused more on atoning for my sins and less on fretting about the fruit. Bryan Kohlberger isn't the first inmate to complain about prison perks. Other noteworthy, albeit wholly frivolous, complaints by picky prisoners include the case of the inmate who claimed to suffer emotional distress when served chunky and not creamy peanut butter. Personally, if this guy had teeth, what's the problem? And then there was the case of the Missouri prisoners who claimed the lack of a salad bar violated their constitutional rights. Hey, buddy, it's prison, not the golden corral, for Christ's sake. Okay. And my personal favorite, the case of the one ply toilet paper, which the complaining prisoner argued amounted to cruel and unusual punishment. Now that's an argument I can almost get behind. Any woman who's ever tried to unfurl more than a dime sized piece of one ply TP from a public restroom has felt this pain. It doesn't roll from the wall like normal toilet paper should. Instead, it breaks off into confetti like pieces suitable for little more than drying Tinkerbell's tiny tears. But I digress. At the heart of these ridiculous complaints, and those like them, is the guiding light of the eighth amendment, which reads, excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments in inflicted. Is it cruel and unusual to suffer inferior bananas? Hardly. This is not the kind of inhumane condition our forefathers had in mind. Yet despite several efforts over the decades to curb the crush of frivolous prisoner lawsuits, they just keep it coming because, well, having nothing but time gives you a whole lot of time. While it is utterly offensive to me anyway, that a man who committed such a heinous crime gets to complain about the prison snacks that we pay for, I suppose it's less costly to taxpayers, all things considered to have the co burgers of the prison world bitch about the bananas they put in their bodies versus the penises they want to lop off their bodies. Also on our dime, Bryan Kohberger isn't there yet, but give him a few four life sentences plus 10 years is a whole lot of time to not drop the soap. And there you have it.

[Mark Iglarsh]

That was so good.

[Dave Aronberg]

Drop the mic.

[Jonna Spilboard]

There you have drop the mic, not the soap.

[Mark Iglarsh]

Excellent as always.

[Jonna Spilboard]

So you guys are great. I love you. I and I thank everybody out there for watching and listening and I can't wait to see you again. We're full on in the holiday season, so stay safe everybody. Till next time. Did you know 39% of teen drivers.

[Dave Aronberg]

Admit to texting while driving?

[Jonna Spilboard]

Even scarier, those who text are more likely to speed and run red lights.

[Dave Aronberg]

Shockingly, 94% know it's dangerous, but do it anyway. As a parent, you can't always be.

[Jonna Spilboard]

In the car, but you can stay.

[Dave Aronberg]

Connected to their safety with Greenlight Infinity's driving reports.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Monitor their driving habits, see if they're using their phone, speeding and more.

[Dave Aronberg]

These reports provide real data for meaningful conversations about safety. Plus, with weekly updates, you can track.

[Jonna Spilboard]

Their progress over time. Help keep your teens safe. Sign up for greenlight [e-mail] podcast Ah, DSW Earth. Place of the humble. Brag here. The shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone that is. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, they'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores [e-mail] Let us surprise you.