MK True Crime Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Menendez Brothers’ Next Move, "Unknown Number" and the Case of Kendra Licari, Charlie Kirk Assassination

Date: September 12, 2025
Host: Matt Murphy
Contributors: Mark Geragos (Criminal Defense Attorney), Dave Ehrenberg (Former State Attorney, FL)

Overview

This episode of MK True Crime dives deep into some of America’s most gripping true crime stories and judicial developments, including:

• The Menendez Brothers’ denied parole and their next legal moves
• The shocking onstage assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk
• The fallout from Donna Adelson’s conviction and what’s next for her family
• A jaw-dropping case of a young Michigan girl cyberbullied by her own mother, as depicted in the Netflix documentary "Unknown Number"
• An update on the Burning Man festival homicide

With frank, behind-the-scenes legal analysis and a conversational, battle-hardened tone, the hosts and contributors provide both context and strong opinion.

Key Segment Summaries

1. Menendez Brothers Parole Denial & Next Steps

[02:24–12:06]

• Recap: The Menendez brothers were denied parole in late August.
• Mark Geragos’s Involvement: Geragos discusses his longtime representation and recent wins for the Menendez brothers, including successfully securing parole hearings.
  • Quote [04:33, Geragos]:
    "You as a California practitioner will know that there has been of a sea change in California... We got them re-sentenced back in May. And now fast forward, they converted this kind of safety hearing into a parole hearing... They were denied, but a minimum denial of three years, which means they're eligible again in a year."
• Matt Murphy on the Parole System: Murphy contextualizes how prison rule violations (115s) and issues like gang affiliation (notably Eric’s alleged link to a prison gang) can instantly derail parole chances.
  • Quote [09:18, Murphy]:
    "Your problem in getting them out is... when a prisoner has recent 115s, so that's the code for major rule violations ...and I think Lyle and Eric both got caught multiple times with cell phones."
• Discussion on Governor Newsom’s Role: Both speculate on the likelihood of gubernatorial clemency, generally concluding it’s slim due to political risk, but not impossible.
• Professional Respect & Disagreement: Mutual professional admiration is clear, but Murphy remains adamant the brothers should not be released.
  • Quote [11:32, Murphy]:
    "Do I think they should be released? Not to surprise you, Mark? Hell friggin’ no do I think they should be released."

2. The Charlie Kirk Assassination & National Response

[12:06–24:07]

• Incident Recap: Charlie Kirk, a high-profile conservative commentator, was assassinated on stage. The hosts decry the act and analyze the likely police investigation—including immediate nationwide mobilization to identify the suspect.
• Cultural & Legal Reflections: The hosts criticize the celebratory reaction seen online and clarify legal definitions around "hate speech".
  • Quote [13:50, Murphy]:
    "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent... when you have, what has really disturbed me, Mark, is these TikTok videos... there was a celebration in the background... To celebrate the death of a 31 year old man for disagreement disturbs me greatly."
• On Professional Debate & Polarization: Geragos and Murphy reminisce on courtroom adversarial respect vs today’s political toxicity.
  • Quote [17:31, Geragos]:
    "...there was kind of a collegiality once you were out of the courtroom...we understood that that's what you did, especially in the criminal law... And I think collegiality, that is what is missing in the current political discourse."
• Disinformation and Conspiracy Theories: The hosts discuss the proliferation of conspiracies in high-profile cases, especially when arrests are delayed, and express frustration with online “kook” theories.
  • Quote [24:07, Murphy]:
    "It's the Dunning-Kruger effect... These people want to be the smartest person in the room with their 90 IQ and... Oh, I've got it figured out... There is Occam's razor, right? The simplest explanation is almost always the correct one."

3. Donna Adelson: Conviction and Family Fallout

[27:23–33:51]

• Verdict Recap & Outburst: The jury found Donna Adelson guilty of first-degree murder; her courtroom outburst captured broad attention.
  • Quote [27:39, Courtroom]:
    "We the jury find as follows as the count one of the indictment, first degree murder, the defendant is guilty of first degree murder. Mrs. Adelson, control yourself."
• Dave Ehrenberg’s Reaction: Ehrenberg sees Adelson’s reaction as entitled outrage rather than genuine sorrow.
  • Quote [28:10, Ehrenberg]:
    "This was not a sad woman. This was a woman who's angry because she's never been held accountable for anything in her life before..."
• Client Control in Court: Geragos discusses the ethics and psychology of managing clients during trial, noting that extreme reactions are sometimes inevitable but must be managed.
• Wendy Adelson, the Next Target?: The panel analyzes evidence against Donna’s daughter, Wendy, and whether she’ll be prosecuted for possible accessory or involvement.
  • Quote [32:38, Ehrenberg]:
    "Wendy was at the crime scene. Why? She had to drive out of her way to get there... And Donna had Danny’s make, model and license plate of his car in her planner two years after the divorce. How did she get that? I'll give you one guess..."
• State Law Comparison: Lengthy sentences for accessories in Florida contrast with California’s much shorter statutes; this may affect prosecutorial decisions.

4. The Shocking Case of Kendra Licari, “Unknown Number”

[35:33-39:40]

• Case Recap: The story of a Michigan girl subjected to relentless, anonymous cyberbullying turns tragic when the culprit is revealed to be her own mother.
  • Quote [37:51, Ehrenberg]:
    "Crazy that someone that close could do something like that."
• Netflix Influence: The case was recently spotlighted in a popular documentary, bringing the unusual modern angle of digital harassment by a parent into focus.
• Psychological Analysis: Hosts discuss Munchausen syndrome by proxy as a driver, noting both the severity of the psychological manipulation and the surprisingly brief sentence imposed.
  • Quote [38:33, Ehrenberg]:
    "She got, I think a year and a half... This woman is sick and I just think she got off a little easy based on the terror and the horror she committed to her own family and the community."
• Human Aftermath: The hosts note the daughter's continuing desire to reconnect, likening this to a form of ‘Stockholm syndrome’.

5. Burning Man Homicide Update

[41:45-45:39]

• Summary: A man was murdered at Burning Man, with witnesses describing “an unhinged man” as the suspect.
• Drug Connection: Both hosts reflect on the high prevalence of drug-fueled violence at festival environments and in their own caseloads (meth, fentanyl).
  • Quote [44:05, Murphy]:
    "Meth, for whatever reason, and a lot of these designer drugs really do make people lose their frigging minds. And I don't know what it is. They love to stab each other."
• Systemic Issues: Discussion on the overlap between drug use, mental illness, and crime; the US jail system as the “largest mental health facility in the world.”

6. Audience Q&A and Legal Ethics

[45:39–49:23]

• Question: Should defense attorneys want to know if their clients are guilty?
• Geragos’s Response: No, not until he knows what the government can prove, for ethical reasons and to avoid being put in a position where he might be party to perjury.
  • Quote [46:54, Geragos]:
    "I do not want them to tell me their version of the facts... The only way I can defend you is to know the universe of facts and what the government knows, because I'm there to defend against the government."

7. Closing Arguments: Violence, Debate, and Democracy

[49:43–51:09]

• Geragos delivers a passionate plea for civil discourse, condemning those celebrating Kirk’s assassination and arguing that murder in place of debate is "the ultimate collapse of civilization".
  • Quote [49:43, Geragos]:
    "If you can't engage in an argument and try to persuade someone...you have reduced the idea of rationality, reason and persuasion...to the point where it’s primal and it is not civilized."
• Murphy agrees and expresses concern for America’s future, urging all sides to avoid dehumanization and violence.
  • Quote [51:09, Murphy]:
    "If you can't debate, especially respectfully or disagree, we are in big trouble."

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Parole Denials:
  • [04:33]: "They were denied, but a minimum denial of three years, which means they're eligible again in a year." — Mark Geragos
• On Online Reaction to Murder:
  • [13:50]: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." — Matt Murphy quoting Isaac Asimov
  • [15:23]: "To celebrate the death of a 31 year old man for disagreement disturbs me greatly." — Matt Murphy
• On Professionalism in Law:
  • [17:31]: "There was kind of a collegiality once you were out of the courtroom..." — Mark Geragos
• On Donna Adelson’s Outburst:
  • [27:39]: "The defendant is guilty of first degree murder. Mrs. Adelson, control yourself." — Courtroom
• On the Kendra Licari Cyberbullying Case:
  • [37:51]: "Crazy that someone that close could do something like that." — Dave Ehrenberg

Additional Insights

• Parole/Justice System Evolution: Both hosts describe the changing climate in California criminal justice, from the "lock them all up" 90s to increased parole and reform.
• Legal Culture: Civil attorneys are painted as more combative post-trial, while seasoned criminal lawyers retain mutual respect.
• Media Critique: Panelists take aim at social media, TikTok, and online hot-take culture for distorting and celebrating tragedy.
• Mental Health & Drugs: Extensive commentary on how America’s jail system has absorbed many public health and addiction crises.

Overall Tone & Language

The conversation is lively, occasionally irreverent, but always deeply informed by decades of trial and investigative experience. Both hosts mix warmth, rivalry, and a no-nonsense approach—sometimes leaning into gallows humor.

Useful for Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This summary covers all major crime cases discussed, unpacks the legal reasoning and system-wide issues raised, and highlights the podcast’s best unscripted exchanges. Each segment is presented with enough narrative and opinion to offer a comprehensive view, even without hearing the original audio.

End of summary