Mystery of Guthrie Ransom Note and Kidnapping, Tepe Autopsies Revealed, Search for Missing NY Teen, with Chris Hansen

Summary

MK True Crime Podcast – Detailed Episode Summary

Podcast: MK True Crime
Episode: Mystery of Guthrie Ransom Note and Kidnapping, Tepe Autopsies Revealed, Search for Missing NY Teen
Date: February 6, 2026
Host: Dave Aronberg (with regular co-host Ashley Merchant)
Special Guest: Chris Hansen

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into three major true crime stories captivating the country:

• The abduction of Nancy Guthrie, mother of Today Show’s Savannah Guthrie, with a focus on the mysterious ransom note and ongoing investigation.
• The revealing details of the Tepe double homicide autopsies and the implications for the prosecution.
• The disappearance of 15-year-old Thomas Medlin after online interactions on Roblox, featuring investigative insights from Chris Hansen.

The hosts analyze new details, share emotional statements from involved families, and offer expert commentary on the criminal investigations, risks of child predation online, and the complexities of ongoing legal proceedings.

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1. The Disappearance of Nancy Guthrie

[Timestamp: 01:19–09:30; 11:29–16:43]

Key Points:

• Nancy Guthrie Missing:
  Nancy Guthrie (84), mother of Savannah Guthrie, is missing since January 31. She was possibly abducted from her home. There are currently no identified suspects. She has urgent medication needs, making the case especially dire.

• Hopeful Tone from Authorities:
  The sheriff believes Nancy is still alive. This optimism is interpreted as a possible sign that whoever has her might be providing her with needed medication, or has not harmed her.

  • Sheriff (audio) – “We believe Nancy is still out there, we want her home.” [03:03]

• Family Plea:
  Savannah Guthrie and her family made a public, deeply emotional plea for Nancy's safe return, emphasizing her health and their desperation.

  • Savannah Guthrie – “She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer. ... We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen.” [05:21]

• Ransom Note Details:
  There are reports of multiple ransom notes, some fraudulent. One purportedly contained info “only someone holding her would know,” with a specific dollar amount and deadline. There was already an imposter arrested for a fake ransom note, illustrating the difficulties investigators face sorting real leads from hoaxes.

• Blood Evidence:
  Small amounts of Nancy’s blood were found on her porch—worrying, given her age and health. However, the crime scene did not appear to be particularly violent.

• Law Enforcement Activity:
  Police and FBI have returned to Nancy Guthrie’s home for further evidence collection and continue to deploy resources, including search dogs and elite border patrol rescue teams, on the chance she may have been taken across a border.

• Family Suspicions:
  Discussion surfaced around possible involvement of family members, particularly Annie’s husband Tomaso Sione (Savannah’s brother-in-law), the last person to see Nancy alive. Media sources like Ashley Banfield cited credible sources hinting at this focus, noting cameras had been deliberately smashed and vehicles impounded as evidence ([12:13]). Police, however, have publicly stated he is not a suspect.

• Suspicious Activity:
  Neighbors reported prior trespassing and sightings of “a suspicious man” lurking nearby, which is currently being probed.

Notable Quotes:

• On police optimism:
  Ashley Merchant – "The fact that [the sheriff] still believes that she’s alive, that is very telling, that maybe she got her medicine, maybe something like that happened." [03:30]

• On fake ransom demands:
  Ashley Merchant – “Fake ransom demands are extremely common. And, you know, these folks that are sending them are going to the heart of someone who’s just desperate … a ransom note doesn't automatically mean a kidnapping.” [07:08]

• On the family focus of investigations:
  Ashley Banfield (paraphrased by Dave Aronberg) – “...not only were the cameras smashed...but that the car belonging to the sister of Savannah Guthrie, Annie Guthrie, was towed … They now believe the son-in-law may be the prime suspect.” [12:13]

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2. Tepe Double Homicide – Autopsies and Analysis

[Timestamp: 16:43–20:44]

Key Points:

• Autopsy Revelations:
  Reports confirm that both Monique and Spencer Tepe were shot multiple times—a total of 16 gunshot wounds. This contradicts initial reports suggesting few wounds, particularly for Monique.

• Nature of Killing:
  The manner of the shooting—with a full magazine emptied into the victims—suggests powerful anger, characteristic of a crime of passion.

• Possible Signs of Struggle:
  The autopsy suggests there was movement, possibly indicating Spencer tried to defend his wife.

• Homicide Ruling and Implications:
  The coroner has ruled both deaths homicides, which means intentional killing—not necessarily premeditated murder.

Notable Quotes:

• Ashley Merchant – “If you're unloading … all of the bullets, it seems like that he would have had to have unloaded his weapon. That is intense. … That is someone who wants to extract vengeance and doesn’t just want to get one shot.” [17:40]

• Dave Aronberg – “A homicide doesn’t mean it’s a murder. … It could have been self-defense, it could have been manslaughter, but it’s not an accident.” [20:44]

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3. The Disappearance of Thomas Medlin and Dangers of Roblox

[Timestamp: 22:53–43:08] Guest: Chris Hansen

Case Background:

Thomas Medlin, a 15-year-old boy from New York, vanished January 9th after traveling to Manhattan, apparently to meet someone he encountered via Roblox. Surveillance showed him near the Manhattan Bridge; his cell phone last pinged there; police noted a “splash” on video but no other hard evidence.

Key Points:

• Family’s Desperate Pleas:
  Thomas’s mother, Eva Yan, made an emotional direct appeal for his safe return, expressing unconditional support and love.

  • Eva Yan (played by Chris Hansen) – “We deeply, deeply love him ... whatever he did, I’m not mad at all ... Mommy only worry about safety ... I exchange my life for my boy’s safety.” [24:59]

• Roblox as a Risk Factor:
  Chris Hansen details how predators use Roblox—a platform marketed to kids as young as five—due to its addictive nature and currency-based rewards system (Robux). Security measures by Roblox are easily circumvented.

  • Children have been lured into offline meetings with adults through contacts initiated on Roblox and then moved to platforms like Discord.
  • In one Florida county, a man exploited at least a dozen children via Roblox.
  • Parental controls are easily bypassed by tech-savvy kids.

• Platform Accountability:
  Hansen calls out Roblox’s inadequate response:

  • Lack of strong enforcement or account bans
  • Reluctance to be meaningfully interviewed
  • Reliance on continued engagement even at the risk of child safety

• Parental Challenges:
  Many parents are unaware of multiple accounts kids maintain or the real risks present.

  • Chris Hansen – “Your best defense is the fence you build around your own home, your own children. … Thomas Medlin had five Roblox accounts his parents didn’t know about.” [27:52]

• Recent Related Predatory Cases:
  Hansen describes investigations where predators drove cross-country to abduct and assault children they met online (including a recent 19-year-old in Florida charged with kidnapping and trafficking).

• Predator Tactics Remain Consistent:
  Emotional grooming, slow escalation from innocent contact to trust, and inducements (like Robux) are common tactics observed over decades of sting operations.

Advice for Parents:

• Open Dialogue:
  Chris Hansen strongly emphasizes the need for regular, honest conversations with children about online risks and access to an “off ramp”—a way to seek help without fear or shame.

  • Chris Hansen – “You gotta give your kids an off ramp. … They have to know there's grownups online that like to trick kids. Kids don't like to be tricked. That’s it.” [39:56, 41:00]

• No Perfect Control:
  Ashley and Hansen note that keeping kids entirely offline is unrealistic; tech-savvy kids will find ways to access platforms at a friend’s house, school, or in public.

• Sharing Information:
  If anyone has tips about Thomas Medlin, they should contact the Suffolk County Police Department (631-854-8452) and amplify his story on social media.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Hansen – "Parents inherently believe this is a safe place. The characters look like LEGO characters ... but predators know this.” [25:54]
• Chris Hansen – “It is shocking and you would think that like shows like yours, To Catch a Predator, would have shocked the daylights out of all these people ... but it doesn’t seem like it has ebbed the flow of all these perverts.” [31:03]
• Ashley Merchant – “What should parents do? … I can't imagine how I'd have figured out how to protect them if some predator was trying to get on Minecraft to talk to them. I mean, I can't even play the game.” [38:17]
• Chris Hansen – “A lot of smart, good kids get into trouble online ... you have to have a conversation... ‘come talk to me about it, we'll resolve this together.’” [38:44]

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4. Listener Mailbag: Legal Analysis – Pardons and Plea Deals

[Timestamp: 44:59–49:58]

Listener Question: Could people who pled guilty in the initial Trump/Fani Willis Georgia case (if the case is dropped) seek pardons to erase those convictions?

Key Points:

• Georgia’s System:
  Pardons restore lost civil rights (voting, firearms, jury service) but do not erase convictions. In Georgia, most relevant defendants pled under the First Offender Act, meaning if they finish their sentence, they are “exonerated,” and regain rights automatically.
• Prosecutor Power:
  In some states, the prosecutor can dismiss or reverse convictions. Ashley agrees justice should outweigh finality, but in practice the legal system prefers closure over revisiting past cases.
  • Ashley Merchant – “Our system of justice favors finality over justice, period.” [48:12]

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5. Closing Segment – Observations on Civility

[Timestamp: 49:58–52:06]

Light-hearted Rant:
Dave Aronberg shares a tongue-in-cheek story about a harrowing three-hour flight next to an overly chatty passenger, arguing for more civility and less involuntary eavesdropping.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Savannah Guthrie (about her mother): “She is our heart and our home ... we want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen.” [05:21]
• Chris Hansen (on child predation): “Your best defense is the fence you build around your own home, your own children.” [27:52]
• Chris Hansen (about online danger): “A lot of smart, good kids get into trouble online ... you have to have a conversation … and give your kids an off ramp.” [38:44, 41:00]
• Ashley Merchant (on the justice system): “Our system of justice favors finality over justice, period.” [48:12]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:19] - Beginning of Nancy Guthrie segment
• [05:21] - Savannah Guthrie’s family statement
• [12:13] - Ashley Banfield’s report on family suspicion
• [16:43] - Shift to Tepe double homicide / Autopsy findings
• [22:53] - Start of Thomas Medlin/Roblox discussion with Chris Hansen
• [24:54] - Eva Yan (Thomas’s mother) emotional plea
• [27:52] - Parental responsibility and platform failures
• [33:19] - Predator case details (Martin County, Florida)
• [39:56] - Chris Hansen’s advice to parents
• [44:59] - Listener Question & Legal analysis about pardons
• [49:58] - Dave’s closing “crime at 30,000 ft” rant

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Summary Takeaways

• The Guthrie kidnapping investigation remains a rapidly shifting case with conflicting information, but hope for her safe return remains.
• The Tepe double homicide autopsies point toward a crime of passion and confirm prior suspicions about the killer’s emotional state.
• The dangers faced by children online, especially through platforms like Roblox, are real and evolving, demanding both parental vigilance and better platform accountability.
• Parental controls are not enough—communication and awareness are the best prevention.
• The American criminal justice system often values finality of verdicts over reexamining past convictions for fairness or justice.

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For further information on Thomas Medlin:
Contact Suffolk County Police Department at 631-854-8452.
Share and repost missing posters—keeping visibility is critical.

Transcript

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Ashley Merchant]

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[David Muir]

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[Ashley Merchant]

Thank you for making World News Tonight with David Muir the number one newscast in America.

[David Muir]

Most trusted, most watched David Muir on abc.

[Dave Aronberg]

Welcome to MK True Crime. I'm Dave Aronberg. I'm the former state attorney for Palm beach county and managing partner of Dave Aronberg Law. Here's what's on the MK True Crime docket today. Nancy Guthrie, the mother of today's show host Savannah Guthrie is still missing as of this taping. We'll bring you new disturbing details on the ransom notes and more. Monique and Spencer Tepe's autopsy reports have been released and they are worse than we thought. What does this mean for their alleged killer? Dr. Michael McKee will discuss an Emmy award winning journalist. Chris Hansen joins us to discuss another missing persons case that desperately needs attention. It's the disappearance of 15 year old Thomas Medlin and the connection to online gaming platform Roblox. I'm joined today by my co host, criminal defense attorney practicing Atlanta, Georgia, but originally from Florida, Ashley Merchant. Ashley the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie has gripped the nation. And just as a reminder, Nancy Guthrie is a mother of Today show host Savannah Guthrie. She is 84 years old, has been missing since January 31st. She is thought to have been abducted and so far there have been no suspects identified. This is an evolving story and as a time of this taping there are pleas out there for anyone to please have her come back and they'll even talk to the people if there is a ransom demand. But Ashley what's your take on what's going on right now?

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, so there's a couple interesting things. I mean, I think I'm glad that the sheriff has come forward and really given us information that makes me think that she's alive. I mean the sheriff, local sheriff said, you know, Nancy is still out there. And I think we actually have that have the SOT of the sheriff actually.

[David Muir]

Saying that we believe Nancy is still out there, we want her home. Our department, the sheriff's department, along with.

[Ashley Merchant]

All of our partners at the FBI.

[David Muir]

Have been working round the clock.

[Dave Aronberg]

And.

[David Muir]

We just want her home and find a way to get to the bottom of all of this just as you do.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, you know, that gave me a lot of hope because I think at first when we heard this story and we saw the blood drops and really when we heard that she needed medication, that if she didn't take in a short period of time she would likely die. I think it was a good indication when the sheriff said, well we think she's alive because to me that's very telling because it means that she probably has medication. So you know, that sort of leads into the theory that we've been toying around with. And I know Ashley Banfield talked about it yesterday on Megyn Kelly's show, but you know, was someone involved, some family member? I mean, was there a family member involved? The fact that she, they still believe that she's alive, that is very telling, that maybe she got her medicine, maybe something like that happened. But you know, looking at some of the crime scene evidence that they've taken, apparently they don't have any interest of any suspects right now. That's what they're saying. So even though we think that the, the brother in law might be somebody, the police are saying there's no suspects. But I thought it was interesting that they had found a lot more DNA in her house. But they said it was minimal. So to me, you know, if it was, if it was blood, semen or saliva, it's not going to be minimal. So me that I'm thinking, and you know, I'm not curious what you're thinking, if it's minimal, that means that it's something very minor. It's not a bloody scene, it's not something other than what we saw outside. I mean, what do you think about that?

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, they said that blood was found on the porch of the home and it came back to Nancy. So that's troubling. Whatever you hear of blood from an 84 year old, someone who has Limited mobility. Who needs medication to survive just 24 hours. And so now it's been more than 24 hours, well over 24 hours since she's been gone. And you just fear the worst. But I agree with you that the sheriff's comments, I thought, gave me hope as well. I'd like to play the sot on Savannah Guthrie and her family. She was pleading for Nancy to come home. And if we can play that, our.

[Megyn Kelly]

Mom is our heart and our home. She is 84 years old. Her health, her heart is fragile. She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine. She needs it to survive. She needs it not to suffer. We, too have heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media. As a family, we are doing everything that we can. We are ready to talk. However, we live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen.

[Dave Aronberg]

Kind of that.

[Ashley Merchant]

That tells me that there may be that they have some faith in this ransom note, that this ransom note may actually be legitimate.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah. And I really like the way it was phrased, we will listen. Not that we will pay, because you start paying these folks and just encourages more kidnapping. But the family is desperate, and, yeah, they'll entertain it. And the hope is that these people rear their head and then the SWAT team can swoop in. I mean, if they're in this country. I know the border control supposedly was supposed to be involved in it, too, in case she was taken south of the border. There's just so many questions, and I just wonder, ashley, have you ever seen a case like this where it's like vanishing the thin air? And every time you think, ah, it's maybe the brother in law, the police are quick to say, no, no, no, no suspects.

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, actually, whenever there's a lot of media involved in a case, it seems to me that there's a lot more leads that don't end up anywhere. And I think that's just the nature of it. You know, people see things on the news, and maybe they think it's helpful, maybe they don't think it's helpful, but they're more likely to call in. And I also think that a lot of people use it, unfortunately, to get attention themselves. And so I think the police have a lot more to sift through, really, to find, you know, the truth in these. But a ransom note doesn't automatically mean a kidnapping. I mean, it definitely doesn't mean that the Sen seen that, you know, there was a fake ransom person that was already arrested. Fake ransom demands are extremely common. And, you know, these folks that are sending them are going to the heart of someone who's just desperate and they want to believe a ransom note is real because that means that their loved ones out there and that means that they're going to be able to get them back if they do the right things. So, you know, it's definitely pulling on the heartstrings. One person was already arrested in this case being an imposter. These ransom notes, if they're not real, they slow down the investigation, unfortunately. But it sounds like the family thinks that their some chance that it's real. And, you know, I want to play a side and talk about one of the anchors who actually saw this ransom note. So if we've got the sought with the anchor, Mary Coleman, who actually saw this, this ransom note, if we could play that and then we'll talk about it. We do know there are a few things that we can share as far as what the contents were. A lot of it is information that only someone who is holding her for ransom would know, some very sensitive information and things that people who hold her weren't there when she was taken captive would know. So it also included a dollar amount, a deadline, and again, other specifics that, that only Guthrie's abductor might know. So that definitely raised some red flags. Yeah. So that one, I mean, sounds like there's some similarities also between this ransom note and the ransom note that TMZ actually received. So it's, it's possible that they're from the. From the same. Same story, same people. Also, the police have returned to Nancy Guthrie's home. They've law enforcement went back to her home. They re you off the scene. They took some more evidence. They were seen carrying large bags of evidence into the home and then bringing some of them back in and loading in the vehicle. So there's possibility maybe they're trying to do some more DNA testing. At this point, they had sniffing dogs. So, you know, that tells me that they're trying to find some more clues and they're really trying to do a very thorough job in this case.

[David Muir]

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[Ashley Merchant]

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[David Muir]

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[Megyn Kelly]

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[Dave Aronberg]

You know, we played that video of Savannah Guthrie sitting between her sister Annie Guthrie and her brother Cameron Guthrie with that emotional appeal. Keep in mind that Annie Guthrie, her sister, her husband is the one they're saying is a suspect. So that's the brother in law. So that just is weird. If she's sitting next to Annie, Annie is crying. And they're all very worried. Understandably so. And yet they're looking at the brother in law. Or are they? I know that Ashley Banfield, who is a respected podcast host on the true crime genre, was on Megyn Kelly show and she was talking about her sources that do raise questions. Let's play that side.

[Megyn Kelly]

Tell us what your you say very reliable law enforcement source told you about a possible suspect in the case. Sure. So after almost four decades in this business, I have collected a few friends at the FBI and in local law enforcement all over the country. And the source that I have is impeccable and he Said that not only were the cameras smashed, plural, plural, cameras smashed. So that the suspect likely knew about the locations of them, but that the car belonging to the sister of Savannah Guthrie, Annie Guthrie, was towed, impounded and taken into evidence. And that. And this is the wording. It's very important. The wording is very important. He said they now believe the son in law may be the prime suspect. Those are the words, son in law may be the prime suspect. At this point, police investigations start in the middle of the circle and they go out in concentric circles. In terms of investigating family members, Right. You start in the middle of the family, you investigate out from there. Then you go to contractors and friends and workers and everybody else who's had some contact. And then there's the randoms. So it is not suppressing surprising that someone in the family is being looked at. That language to me was pretty strident though.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah. You know, Dave being the last person to see someone alive is not evidence. It's proximity. And so, you know, he could have just been taking his loved one home. And now he's, you know, now he's a family member who's being looked at because family members are always looked at first. But it doesn't necessarily turn him into a suspect. But I've got to say, I mean, Ashley does have very credible sources. So if she believes this source has some information, it sounds like it may be viable information.

[Dave Aronberg]

Well, Ashley Banfield was saying that the car of Annie Guthrie was taken into evidence. It was towed away. Boy, that would step it up, right? I mean, yeah, she was there in the video with Savannah Guthrie and her brother. They were there pleading for the return. And like, I'm not going to cast aspersions until there's real evidence. But it is not a surprise that you always look to the family first. I mean, remember when Reiner and his wife were brutally murdered. Quickly we found out it was Nick Reiner who did it. So it wouldn't be the first time a family member was involved. But we do not have evidence that this is the case here. Except Ashley Banfield, well respected, is saying that's what she's hearing, that there's some links there. We'll see. We'll see.

[Megyn Kelly]

Yeah.

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, the police are saying. So the police have slapped this down. They have said he is not a suspect. Investigators slapped down this claim that the brother in law was a suspect. And the mother's abduction said that they had just had dinner. Apparently Annie had dinner with her husband. Tomaso Sione is her husband and he's the last person to see Nancy alive because he actually walked her in to make sure that she got into the home and was safely inside of the house before leaving that night. So, you know, that's why he's the one that's been talked about and he's the one that's being looked at. But the police have been very, very specific about this and said, you know, he is not a suspect.

[Dave Aronberg]

And what kind of a sicko do you have to be to be a hoax where you are giving false information so you can get money out of this, you know, pretending that you're a kidnapper or sending a ransom note. I mean, you know, there's a special place in hell for people who exploit those who are in the midst of tragedy.

[Ashley Merchant]

Oh my gosh, completely. Especially there's also special place in hell for people who, you know, I mean anybody who abducts anybody but God, it's like the elderly, you know, I don't know what it is, but it's. There's something, I mean she's got mobility issues. You know, it sounds like she's just beloved mother. I mean this family loves her. They're missing. I can't even imagine I have an 84 year old mother. I can't even imagine wondering what is happening to her out there in the world. I mean just, you know, our elderly are very vulnerable and need to be taken care of. Some of them at least some are sassy. I plan on being sassy. But beyond that, you already are sassy.

[Dave Aronberg]

I don't know. You plan on it?

[Ashley Merchant]

I plan on being a very sassy 84 year old, 94 year old. Continue on with all that. Yeah, so. And you mentioned earlier that border patrol has been helping apparently and I didn't know this, this is interesting. They have a very elite search and rescue team, Border patrol. Anytime you know someone might be taken over the border and so they've been down there, this elite task force down there helping. So I to see that. So hopefully we'll get some updates soon. One thing I wanted to talk about before we move on that I thought was interesting and it might be a lead. There's some trespassing cases that have been happening nearby and so the police are probing that apparently there's a suspicious man that had been lurking, seen lurking in some of the neighbor's yards near her house. And so they're investigating that. They're trying to figure out if that has any link to it. So I thought that was interesting and might turn into a lead.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, you wonder what kind of people are loitering out? This is not exactly like in the middle of a city. These are huge properties, lots of land, the mountains. And so generally, if you're in that area, there for a reason. So maybe there is a connection, maybe there's not. But remember the Tepe case where there was that guy who was walking away, and we thought, well, maybe he's involved, maybe he's not. He was walking away so nonchalantly. Turns out that is what people think was the murder, Dr. McKee. And speaking of Tepe, I want to ask you about that.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah.

[Dave Aronberg]

How do you like that for a segue, by the way?

[Ashley Merchant]

No, I like it. There's a lot to talk about in tepe.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, I mean, when we first. When we last spoke about it, Ashley, we were talking about how the murderer did not shoot up the wife as much as he shot up the husband. And now we're finding out that, nope, he unloaded a fortune full magazine of bullets into the victims. What does that tell you?

[Ashley Merchant]

It's crazy how many bullets were here. It tells me that this was angry. I mean, this just tells me this is a crime of passion. If you're unloading, it seems like. I mean, all of the bullets, it seems like that he would have had to have unloaded his weapon.

[Dave Aronberg]

That is.

[Ashley Merchant]

That is intense. That is aggravation. That is someone who wants to extract vengeance and doesn't just want to get one shot, a kill shot, and then leave. You know, the autopsy report, I mean, it's saying that there was also some movement. So, you know, maybe. And they can tell that when. They can tell if someone, you know, based on how the impact is and how the organs are affected, whether or not someone was trying to defend themselves. But they think that it could indicate that they were trying to defend themselves and maybe that Spencer was actually trying to defend his wife. Now, what they can't tell is who died first or what order the bullets came in, but it is a piece of the puzzle that can help them try to figure out exactly what happened.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, I think originally we were told he only shot his wife once and shot, yeah, the husband, Spencer, many more times. But nope. Nope. I thought that was surprising because killing like this, if it is based on passion, on just a visceral hatred for your ex wife, why would you only shoot her once? Well, in reality, a total of 16 gunshot wounds were discovered during the autopsy.

[Ashley Merchant]

I was just about to say that.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah. So just so you know, a standard magazine for a handgun holds about 15 to 17 rounds, depending on the size of the bullet. So he unloaded the whole thing. And even though, you know, he had a silencer, but even though the longer you're there, the worse it is, more likely it is that you'll be caught. No, he just kept shooting and shooting and shooting. And they thought that the victims died pretty quickly. So. Yeah, I think you're right. I think this was just hatred. Here's a guy who had it building up for so long. Someone, for example, like a quiet guy who doesn't open up like his previous girlfriend said. Someone who loves his parents but never speaks to them. You know, that's kind of a weird dude right there. So I think. I think they likely got the right guy here.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, it does seem like it. I mean, it seems like there's not a whole lot of other options. It'll be interesting to see what the defense puts up, you know, and the next step is to set a trial date. They haven't set one yet, but that's the next step. But apparently when they do have that trial date, it's most likely. And this happens, you know, this happens every day in our lives. Probably isn't going to happen. The first go around probably will be to make sure that everybody has what they need and then actually set a real trial date. So hopefully something will be set in the future. One thing I did want to talk about, which I thought was, you know, interesting in this, and I think our viewers might. Might find interesting, is both deaths were ruled a homicide with this autopsy. And you and I both know from autopsies there's only so many choices. And I've always. I've always noticed that jurors are always very interested in what the medical examiner or the coroner rules a death, and they seem to put some weight in the fact that it's ruled a homicide. And I know prosecutors love to point that out because they know, jurors think, oh, well, they said it was a homicide. And it's a, you know, that's a. A doctor, a fancy doctor. There's only so many choices, you know, accidental natural causes or homicide. I mean, it's really the only choices you have.

[Dave Aronberg]

Or suicide.

[Ashley Merchant]

Suicide. Right. So there's not. I mean, that's the thing. If it's non. If it's non, you know, natural causes or suicide or something like that, then most likely it's going to be ruled a homicide. So, you know, that's not a surprising fact, let's just put it that way.

[Dave Aronberg]

And a homicide doesn't mean it's a murder. A homicide just means it's an intentional killing. That's all. That's all that someone tried to kill him. It could have been self defense, it could have been manslaughter, but it's not an accident. Accident would be different, as you correctly said. So yeah, we'll keep following it here at MK True Crime. And next, another missing person case that needs the public's attention. On January 9, 15 year old Thomas Medlin vanished into New York City. Emmy award winning journalist Chris Hansen joins us to discuss. We'll be back.

[David Muir]

We've been the trusted experts since 1960 because nobody knows tires better than we do. And with over 90 tire brands, we have an abundance of options in stock for your vehicle. Buy and drive [e-mail] let's get you taken care of. ABC's David Muir, the most trusted anchor in America. The most watched anchor in America.

[Ashley Merchant]

Thank you for making World News Tonight with David Muir the number one newscast in America.

[David Muir]

Most trusted, most watched. David Muir on abc.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Ashley Merchant]

Welcome back to MK True Crime. On January 9th, 15 year old Thomas Medlin hopped on a New York City bound train seemingly to meet up with a person he met on Roblox, a popular online gaming platform platform and vanished. Chris Hansen, Emmy award winning journalist and host of have a Seat With Chris Hansen has been following this case very closely and he joins us now. Welcome Chris.

[David Muir]

Thank you, Ashley.

[Ashley Merchant]

It's so good to have you. So this Is. This is scary. We were talking about this a little bit before the show. You know, I've got got a 16 and 18 year old and so I know all about having to monitor all these gaming platforms. What is going on with this case, with this Thomas Medlin who's been missing for a while and Roblox? What are you finding with your investigation with Roblox?

[David Muir]

Well, the Thomas Midland case is disturbing and just heartbreaking. I interviewed his mother, Eva Yan, who's a Fortune 500 executive. The husband's an executive with a big company in the New York area. On the surface you've got this 15 year old boy who has this great life, goes to a private school, speaks multiple languages, loving parents. Why does a kid take off? Well, according to some of the people around him, his peers, he had met somebody on the gaming platform Roblox and he was going to go meet them. The last we know about his whereabouts is that he takes a train into Manhattan. He's seen on surveillance cameras and then his cell phone pings around the Manhattan Bridge. There's no video of him leaving the area. There's no video of him jumping. There is video captured of a quote unquote splash according to Suffolk Police. And that's all we know. I spoke with the mother yesterday via text and I posted a statement and a reminder for people to be vigilant. The family's firm belief is that Thomas is still out there with someone and they want him to know that it's safe for him to come home.

[Ashley Merchant]

I think we actually have that. I think we've got where you were. Yeah, where you were talking and this poor mother is pleading for her son to come home. If we can play that.

[David Muir]

What is your message to Thomas?

[Ashley Merchant]

My message for him? We deeply, deeply love him. He's a wonderful boy and whatever he did, I'm not mad at all. Nobody's mad at him. We want him come home and also send us a message he's safe. Mommy only worry about safety if he's safe. Mommy understand fully what he's doing. If he need to take time to think through so things out fully support. But I want him to be, you know, safe and whenever he's ready tell us, you know, we pick him up.

[Dave Aronberg]

And we love him especially mom loves.

[Ashley Merchant]

Him more than my life. I'm waiting to God exchange my life for my boy's safety with her. That's heartbreaking is. Oh, so it's been since January 9th. I mean that's, it's a long time.

[David Muir]

It is a long Time. And obviously the longer the clock runs, the more fearful everyone is. But investigators so far cannot provide, you know, a theory as to, you know, how he, you know, if he did perish, how he would have perished. And so you have to cling on to the hope that he is still alive. But, you know, Roblox is a dangerous place. We've been investigating it at my streaming crime network, True Blue, which is where we do our Predator takedown investigations for several months now. And the documentary is going to come out later in February. And parents inherently believe this is a safe place. The characters look like LEGO characters. The game is marketed, the gaming platform is marketed to children as young as five years old. And while Roblox has, under serious criticism, put in place some security measures, they can be circumvented. And we see almost every week a case where a predator is grooming a child on Roblox and they figure out a way to meet up. And the whole platform is designed to be addictive. It's almost like a gaming platform, like a gambling platform where kids get prizes, there's currency called Robux. And predators know this. I mean, in one county in Florida alone, and we show this in the documentary, we had a man arrested for exploiting at least a dozen children using Roblox. And on the other side of the county we had a 10 year old girl who was being exploited by a man all the way over in England. So if that's happening in little Marion County, Florida, what's happening in the rest of the world? A lot. And it's hurting children.

[Ashley Merchant]

So is it really a Roblox problem though, or is it an access problem? I mean, the platform is just there for kids to use. I mean, it's the unsupervised things that are happening off this platform. I mean, shouldn't parents be supervising their children a little closer and getting this message out about roadblocks being dangerous?

[David Muir]

You're preaching to the choir there. I tell parents all the time, no matter how many stings we do at True Blue, no matter how many stings law enforcement conducts around the country, your best defense is the fence you build around your own home, your own children. You have to have that conversation. But, but in the case of Roblox, kids know how to get on it. Thomas Medlin had five Roblox accounts his parents didn't know about. The mother provided these accounts, according to her, to Suffolk county police. They only checked two or three of them. Now, Roblox has said in that case they can find no evidence of any Inappropriate conversations between Thomas and anyone else. But you know, was there a conversation, was there a meeting? Oftentimes these things start on Roblox and they're taken to, you know, another platform.

[Ashley Merchant]

We'll hang out or something. Discord, Right, that's what I was wondering. I was thinking, you know, maybe they're just meeting this way.

[David Muir]

Yeah, well that's, that's how it happens sometimes. But a lot of these initial meetings take place on Roblox and we've been trying to get an interview with the corporation. And while Roblox executives have gone on some limited interview programs where they know they're going to get some relatively easy questions, they've thus far refused to sit down with me. And I've got a lot of serious questions for them. They let law enforcement conduct investigations on their platform. You know, why don't they ban people when they catch them? You know, there's an opportunity for.

[Ashley Merchant]

Seems like a no brainer.

[David Muir]

Create another account and do it. But they don't use the technology to do that. It reduces engagement. It's a multi billion dollar publicly traded company that relies on renewed engagement of young people.

[Dave Aronberg]

And they had parental features in place that the mother used. But the young man was able to bypass them because as you said, he created all these separate accounts through separate email addresses. Sounds too easy to get around their parental control.

[David Muir]

I think it is based upon our investigation. Now Roblox will say, look, we put in place facial recognition and age verification. Now content creators have shown that this could be circumvented. We know that. And if I were Roblox I would point out that look, it's the predators committing the crimes, not Roblox. And this is very true and it's important to remember that as we investigate. But time after time this platform has created opportunities for kids to be preyed upon. And what they need to do is create a feature where parents can whitelist the different areas where their children go. If I'm a parent and my child's on Roblox, they're not going to communicate with anybody who they don't know in real life. That's number one. But again, kids are crafty. We had a case that we profile in the documentary where a child in Texas caught her father communicating with a 15 year old girl in California. The wife blows the whistle, they investigate and now he's being prosecuted for grooming a child. And we confronted him and we have the video of his arrest and the interview with his wife. It's just a shocking case, but it's routine. This sort of predatory activity.

[Dave Aronberg]

It is shocking and you would think that like shows like yours, To Catch a Predator would have shocked the daylights out of all these people out there, whoever thinking of it. But it doesn't seem like it has ebbed the flow of all these perverts who are trying to pick up younger children.

[David Muir]

And that's, that's the point of going and looking at Roblox so closely is, you know. Next month in March will mark 22 years since we conducted the first To Catch a Predator investigation. We call it Takedown now and it appears on our streaming crime network True Blue and some elements of it appear on Fox News. But I thought three or four investigations into it, who's going to show up? But over the years the technology has changed. The activity we had once confined to chat rooms on AOL, Yahoo and MySpace is now exploded. Gaming platforms, new apps and platforms every week where adults can approach children and it's hard to keep track of, quite honestly.

[Ashley Merchant]

I'm wondering if I know the, you know the old script, the old apps that used to use innocent contact, I mean that's how they started. And then they did this emotional grooming. They would move to private messages, they would try to isolate the child and then they would move in for this physical meetup and then that's when everything just becomes a crisis. Is that the same process you're seeing on Roadblocks?

[David Muir]

Absolutely. They gain the trust, they have the conversation. There's an inducement of Robux in many cases. And then you've got a guy driving from Tennessee to Iowa who picks up a 13 year old girl at her grandmother's house, puts her in a car, takes her back and sexually assaults her, essentially traffics her, videotapes it in Tennessee. Now these cases are shocking and they're being prosecuted. Just last week a man was arrested in Florida, Martin County, Florida for seducing, grooming and, and meeting up with two sisters down there. And we're taking a look at that case as well.

[Ashley Merchant]

I actually wanted to ask you about that. So that case. And that's the case you're talking about, the Martin County Sheriff's case where they've held a press conference and they said that there's two. They have a suspect though, right? They've got a suspect who's accused of driving 24 hours to pick up these girls in Florida. 12 and 14. These are the 2 and 14.

[David Muir]

And this guy was 19. And look, there's no difference in the danger posed by a 19 year old man. And a 39, 49, 59 year old man. He may be younger, but he creates the same danger. We had this sting last night in Michigan where we busted a 19 year old guy who had all kinds of things set up and we took a look at his phone and it's shocking what he had planned to do to a teenage girl. So, you know, the, the age of the adult to me has no impact, except that they're all the same person who posed the same level of danger. And what had happened, what would have happened had these girls got. Not gotten away? You know, suddenly they're in a car with a man who clearly has ill intent and these girls become victims all of a sudden. Thank God they were able to get away. Yeah.

[Ashley Merchant]

And so they've, they've charged that man, though. In the Florida case, they said that they've charged him with what, two counts of kidnapping, two counts child custody. And he's in a jail in Georgia trying to be extradited back to Florida.

[David Muir]

So hopefully they'll get him in Florida. You know, look, we do a lot of different predator investigations around the country and different jurisdictions have different levels of, you know, punishment depending on, you know, how many other criminal cases are going at the same time. But I can tell you this, Florida is serious, you know.

[Dave Aronberg]

Oh yeah.

[David Muir]

When we do a sting in Polk county or Martin county or in Marion county and these guys are going to prison.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah.

[Dave Aronberg]

In Polk county you got a sheriff named Grady Judd. He's made for tv, old school, southern sheriff and. Yeah, that's good stuff. But Chris, while we're on the subject of To Catch a Predator, I watched that documentary called Predators, which, you know, which really, it took a sort of a critical look at the show of To Catch a Predators, and it portrayed you in a different light. And I just need to know, I know that the director producer came on your podcast.

[David Muir]

They watched that too.

[Dave Aronberg]

Right. Were you, number one, were you surprised at the way you were portrayed on that? And number two, when they showed you at the end, they actually said the way they let you go was you're free to leave. And it was like, that's what you. You're free to go. That's what you say to the predators in that chair. And then they showed you leaving with the hidden cameras, like in the elevator and then walking out to your car. Did you know they would be doing that? And were you surprised? Surprised at the way you were? No, it's.

[David Muir]

Look, it's a documentary, right? It's one director's journey. And I cooperated with the documentary. But there was no hidden camera. I mean, it was in my mind, it was B roll that they were getting. After we finished the interview, the car I got into was the car they called for me as a courtesy to take me back to my apartment in New York City. So it wasn't like they were hidden camera set up. I knew they were there. We finished the interview, I got up, and for B roll, they were shooting the. The scene of me leaving. But look, some things were left out in that documentary. And they interviewed a sociologist from, I don't know, it was the UK or someplace else, and talked about, you know, the meaning of the predators and are we punishing them? And, you know, is this right or is this wrong or what responsibility we have. We catch guys who try to rape children. Right. There was a scene in the documentary where David Ossett interviews a woman whose son was caught in a sting in northern Michigan. And we couldn't go to the graduation because my son was so embarrassed. Well, how do you think the teenage. The younger teen would feel after being assaulted by your son? How do you think that parent would feel? And then there was talk about the guy who committed suicide in Texas, the assistant district attorney. What they left out of the documentary is that that assistant district attorney had child porn on his computer for which he knew he would face at least 10 years in prison, per image. And he also had evidence on his computer that ultimately sent his boss, the elected district attorney of that county of Texas, to federal prison. So there were a lot of things left out. I understand that as a director who himself was a survivor of sexual assault, he wanted to take this journey. And what he told me he was going to do upfront changes based upon, you know, the things he finds out as he. As he. As he has the journey. So I don't have any problem with it. But as I mentioned to him in the interview I did on have a Seat with Chris Hansen, that, you know, there were some significant things left out. But that's.

[Dave Aronberg]

That's.

[David Muir]

Again, it's one director's view of a certain project.

[Dave Aronberg]

Since I'm a former district attorney. You said that the boss of that assistant district attorney who shot himself to death, he went to prison because of the child pornography.

[David Muir]

No, no, there were two. Two different. Two different things. One, okay, the guy who killed himself had child pornography on his computer. Two, there was evidence on that computer that was used in a corruption case where his boss went to prison. But the boss's charges had nothing to do with any predatory activity or anything Having to do with child porn.

[Ashley Merchant]

Okay, guilty.

[Dave Aronberg]

Yeah, I need to clear that up. Thank you.

[David Muir]

Absolutely.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah. So Chris, while we have you here, you know, I've got two teenage girls. I think I'm over this, this risk. But what should parents do? I mean, Roblox, your kids want to play. I remember my kids, all they wanted to do was play Minecraft. So I can't imagine, I can't even figure out how to get into Minecraft. I can't imagine how I would have figured out how to protect them if some predator was trying to get on Minecraft to talk to them. I mean, I can't even play the game. So what are par to do?

[David Muir]

Here's what I tell parents. And you know, a lot of smart, good kids get into trouble online, right? And the documentary that's airing after the Roblox documentary is about sextortion. And I sat with at least four different parents whose children committed suicide because they were tricked online by con artists half a world away who convinced them they were young women and they needed to send, you know, sexy, inappropriate pictures. Then the extortion happened. The embarrassment in a 15, 16 year old boy's mind is they can't see through it. Now if they had gone to their parents and said, I screwed up, this is what happened, everybody would have settled down and those kids would be alive today. But that's not what happened. So I tell parents that they have to have a conversation with their children that goes along the lines of, look, there's a lot of stuff out there. You know, when I was growing up, the worst trouble you could get into is sneaking into Bobby West's garage and stealing a Playboy magazine out of his dad's box, right? And then you had to take it out in the woods and look it it was by today's standards. Today you can get into a lot of trouble very quickly online and it gets out of control. You know, it's like somebody with a gambling addiction, they forget how to stop at some point.

[Ashley Merchant]

Oh yeah. I mean, it's designed to do that.

[Dave Aronberg]

I think part of it, if you.

[David Muir]

Go down that road, I get it, I was your age once. But come talk to me about it. We'll resolve this together. You know, it used to be 10, 15 years ago, you walked into a local police department. They're oh, hey, I don't know, call the FBI. When then they'll wait till we get five or six. Six similar cases will investigate. Not today. Every police department has some sort of, you know, online task force. They have officers trained by icac, you know, they're prepared to do it. You take this information to the police. We had a case in Michigan where they extradited two guys from Nigeria who were involved in the death of this young man up in the northern Michigan, killed himself because of the sextortion. They brought her back. They're doing federal time now. So, you know, the government and investigators and the bureau and local law enforcement and they're a lot better at doing this now. But you gotta give your kids an off ramp. And I think that's part of it. And when they're young and they first have online experiences, look, there's grownups online. They'd like to trick kids. Kids don't like to be tricked. That's it.

[Ashley Merchant]

Right? I mean, because there is no way to keep your kid offline. I mean, they.

[David Muir]

No, I mean, how are you going to do it even if you do it? I get this all the time when I give speeches to parents in different groups and, well, I'm not going to let my kid on. I said, well, what are they gonna do when they go to Starbucks and there's the Internet? Or what are they going to the friend's house? It's like, you know, 25 years ago when I said, you know, no grand theft auto and they're playing it down the street. You know, they're not dumb, right?

[Ashley Merchant]

No, they're not dumb. And they're way more.

[David Muir]

They don't find it and they're way more. In many cases, they're way more, you know, creative and understanding of the Internet than we are.

[Ashley Merchant]

Oh, they talk to their friends and they figure out how to do it. It's. It's crazy, the things that they can figure out.

[David Muir]

Thomas Medlin, you know, God bless him, I hope he's alive someplace and we find him. And yeah, turns out to be a great story. And, you know, I look back at Elizabeth Smart, who was gone 18 months, and hopefully, you know, Thomas is okay.

[Ashley Merchant]

I know.

[David Muir]

You know, here's a guy who's a good kid who had accounts on Roblox unbeknownst to his very involved parents.

[Ashley Merchant]

Right, right. It seems like it's one of those cases like, how do you prevent something like that? What happened with Thomas Medlin? And I did want to just give our listeners the information. If you have any tips or any information about Thomas Medlin conferen, contact the Suffolk County Police Department. They have a squad detective that's working on it. Their phone number, just in case you have Any information, is 631-854-8452 thank you so much for being here, Chris.

[David Muir]

Thank you guys. I appreciate the time and thanks for having me.

[Ashley Merchant]

So how, other than reaching out to the Suffolk County Police, is there any other way that folks can help with Thomas Medlin? Just, just if there's any tips, just.

[David Muir]

Reach out, be aware and to, you know, if you're so inclined to, to post, repost some of the things that I've been posting or that his mother, Eva Yan has been posting. Look, I, I can't imagine, you know, going through this and, and you know, if you, you know, it sounds trite, but if you see something, say something. Yeah, keep his, he's got to keep his, we got to keep his face in the media.

[Megyn Kelly]

I agree.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, I agree.

[David Muir]

So we, we find something out.

[Ashley Merchant]

Well, thank you so much, Chris.

[David Muir]

All right, guys, thank you.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yes, thank you. Next, your mail and our closing arguments. Remember, we want to hear from you. We love getting your comments and your questions and your story suggestions. So please let us know. Reach out to us at mk true crime devil may caremedia.com we'll be right.

[David Muir]

We've been the trusted experts since 1960 because nobody knows tires better than we do. And with over 90 tire brands, we have an abundance of options in stock for your vehicle. Buy and drive [e-mail] let's get you taken care of. ABC's David Muir, the most trusted anchor in America. The most watched anchor in America.

[Ashley Merchant]

Thank you for making World News Tonight with David Muir the number one newscast in America.

[David Muir]

Most trusted listed, most watched David Muir.

[Megyn Kelly]

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[Dave Aronberg]

Welcome back to MK True Crime. We'll get to our closing argument soon. But first we have a request from listener Sharon to Ashley. Sharon says, hi, Ashley, you mentioned a few weeks ago in regards to the Trump case in Fulton county being dropped, that the people who pled guilty early on and took some kind of plea deal with Fani Willis, the DA are stuck with those verdicts even though the case was dropped. My question is, could Governor Camp or any Georgia governor pardon those people to remove those convictions from their records? Love the show and all of the hosts on MK True Crime, you guys are the best. Thank you, Ashley.

[Ashley Merchant]

Yeah, so that's a great question. Thanks for writing us. We love your questions. In Georgia, the governor can be involved in pardons, but pardons aren't what a lot of people think. And so it's different because most of the pardons you see are actually at the federal level. So the president would be doing the pardons here in Georgia. Pardons are a little bit different. What they can do is they essentially forgive someone so they can give you back your right to vote. If you're a convicted felon, for example, they can give you back your right to carry firearms. They can give you back certain things that are taken away when you enter a guilty plea to a felony. And a lot of folks don't remember or don't even realize how much you actually give up when you become a convicted felon. You can't vote, you can't carry a firearm. You can't do things like that. You can't serve on a jury. So pardons in Georgia, the most that they do is they forgive you and allow you to do those things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do. But in this case, the people that entered please, actually entered them under what's called the First Offender act here in Georgia. So once they finish their sentence, they are considered exonerated. That's the exact language that's used in a first offender plea. And I don't know of any other state that has it. It's a interesting Georgia thing. But if you admit guilt and you take a guilty plea under the First Offender act, when you successfully complete that sentence, you actually get an order exonerating you, you get your right to bear arms back, you get your right to vote back, you get all of those rights back. So it's unlikely we'll see a pardon in this case. But I think that's a great question.

[Dave Aronberg]

Thank you, Ashley. It's a really good answer. You know, in Florida, I had A case like that, Palm beach county, you remember the Robert Krach draft case? Yes. Well, after he was able to get the charges dismissed, we then went back and we then reversed the plea deals for all the other defendants who had pled guilty because we just thought that was the fair thing to do.

[Ashley Merchant]

It is the fair thing to do. I'm glad you did that. I agree. It is the fair thing to do. They definitely could do that. I mean, in Georgia, it's interesting because just like you said, Dave, in Florida, the prosecutor is the one that holds the power. The prosecutor actually can do that. So they could go and they could dismiss the charges and undo everything. So they're actually the ones that hold that power. So a prosecutor in Fulton county could do that. The governor and our boards of pardons and parole is a little bit different. But, yeah, these early plea deals, it's. It's a. You know, it's a big gamble. When you take an early plea deal, you're trying to take it because you want the best deal, but they're legally final, even if the broader case collapses.

[Dave Aronberg]

And that is our federalist system, where states have the ability to make decisions on their own, at least for now. We'll see where that goes now. Yeah, today. Now that a certain president is trying to federalize elections. But that's another topic for another day.

[Ashley Merchant]

I actually want to dovetail from the question we had from our viewer who asked about pardons and how those work, and what happens if you take a plea early on in a case and then the case sort of falls apart, as we've seen with the case in Fulton county, where several of the people who were charged took early plea deals, they got good plea deals to probation, but now perhaps they are second guessing because they see that the entire case was distributed, dismissed. So what does that mean? What can they do? Our system of justice favors finality over justice, period. That's what it does. It wants finality. It wants the door on a case shut. It wants closure for everyone involved, and it does not want to go back and look years later to see if justice was actually served. And I think this is a problem that our system has. I think that we sometimes prioritize speed, as you've heard us talking about multiple times, and sometimes we prioritize finality over actual justice. And so if a case does fall apart and a case is dismissed, and I think Dave said this earlier, as a good prosecutor, you would go back, and if the case is actually dismissed, you should go back and vacate those prior pleas because if a case should not have been brought, Brought properly, then why do you want to have more people under sentence? Why do you want to have more people under a conviction that didn't even stand? I mean, that just doesn't make sense, and it's not fair. So this is one of the things that our system does. I always like to talk about, you know, peeling back the onion and seeing how the sausage is actually made. We do not value justice later on. We value finality. And so I think that is a big problem with our system. So I appreciate that. Viewer's question about pardon. Pardon is just one of the many options, but what we really need to do is we need to have judges and we need to have prosecutors who are much more willing to actually care about justice over finality.

[Dave Aronberg]

Thanks, Ashley. That was great. And you did it with brevity, which is different than many of our rants, which can go on and on. And I'm trying to keep mine short, but I need to talk about a crime, because I usually talk about cold cases. I talk about politics, but I'm talking about crime that happened at 30,000ft here. Okay. Last week, I flew from New York to Palm beach in an aisle seat, and I'm pretty sure I am now qualified to write the passenger's biography. Who sat in the row across from me three hours. He didn't stop. The poor woman in the window seat in his row would occasionally pipe in, and she deserves some of the blame for encouraging this obnoxious conduct. He didn't even pause for the safety instructions. I mean, apparently the location of the emergency exits is less important than his very loud opinions on his family's dysfunction or his cousin's H VAC business. Because by the time we hit the Carolinas, I've heard enough main character energy to last a lifetime. I actually had to move Rose. I moved to the back of the plane just to preserve my sanity. And you know it's a crime when the flight attendant leans over as we're landing and whispers, he still hasn't stopped talking. They knew what was up. Even the crew was traumatized. You know, Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy, he recently suggested that we all need to start. Start dressing up more on planes. Respectfully, in this case, I don't care if you're in a tuxedo or your pajamas. Civility is not about your outfit. It's about your volume. It's about the radical idea that the person in 6A didn't sign up for a three hour unconsented podcast of your life story. So please, for the love of peace and quiet, be considerate. If you have that much to say to a stranger sitting next to you, then lower your voice or get her phone number and call her after we land. Just don't hold the rest of us hostage because there are only so many seats left in the back of the plane. And that's my rant. And thank you to our guest, Chris Hanson and to my co host, Ashley Merchant. And thank you for joining us. Have a great weekend.

[David Muir]

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[Dave Aronberg]

Com.

[David Muir]

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