New Details in Teacher Shot by 1st Grader Trial, Model Kills Photographer, and Mom Slain by Margarita

Summary

MK True Crime — Episode Summary

Episode Title: New Details in Teacher Shot by 1st Grader Trial, Model Kills Photographer, and Mom Slain by Margarita
Host: Jonna Spielbore
Guests: Arthur Aidala (NY Trial Attorney), Ashley Merchant (GA Defense Attorney)
Date: November 5, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, attorney and host Jonna Spielbore is joined by Arthur Aidala and Ashley Merchant to tackle three shocking cases making headlines:

1. The ongoing civil trial of Abby Zwerner, a teacher shot by her first-grade student.
2. The Las Vegas photo-shoot killing, where a young model claims she accidentally shot her boyfriend.
3. The tragic death of an Oklahoma mom after drinking a poisoned margarita at a restaurant.

The trio discusses legal culpability, societal failures, policy implications, and the human stories behind these jaw-dropping incidents. The episode is marked by legal expertise, banter, and the hosts’ trademark irreverence.

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Case 1: Abby Zwerner Civil Trial — Teacher Shot by a 6-Year-Old

[01:05–17:12]

Backstory

• Abby Zwerner—an elementary schoolteacher in Virginia—was shot and nearly killed by a 6-year-old student.
• Zwerner is suing the assistant principal for $40 million, claiming warnings about the child (known for violent behavior) were repeatedly ignored.

Key Discussion Points

• Teacher’s Warnings Ignored

  • Despite Zwerner’s repeated warnings about the student and suspicion of a gun, the assistant principal opted not to act decisively.
  • “She followed protocol and was essentially ignored.” — Jonna Spielbore ([06:53])

• Negligence and Alternatives

  • Ashley highlights missed steps such as “wand the child’s backpack” instead of a body search ([04:10]).

• Mother’s Liability

  • The 6-year-old’s mother faces state and federal prison for negligence and firearm charges.
  • “Mom’s doing two years in jail on a state charge and then she’s got to do another 21 months in jail on a federal charge…” — Arthur Aidala ([05:29])

• Systemic Failures and School Safety

  • Both guests, as parents, express terror over school violence and discuss the inadequacy of current policies ([09:09]).
  • Discussing the aftermath and likelihood of Zwerner winning the case given the severity of her injuries and institutional negligence.

• Potential for Criminal Charges against School Officials

  • Is the assistant principal criminally liable?
  • “That’s a bridge too far for me as well… I think we over-criminalize cases as a society.” — Ashley Merchant ([15:12])
  • Parallels are drawn with the Ethan Crumbley case, but consensus is civil liability is more appropriate than criminal charges for the assistant principal.

Notable Quotes

• “The bullet went past the heart and just barely missed it and then also ended up within 2 cm of the biggest artery in the entire body” — Medical testimony ([11:53])
• “Every single student in that classroom could have died. And who’s responsible for that?” — Jonna Spielbore ([14:37])

Timestamps of Key Segments

• [07:32] Audio of how teacher’s warnings were dismissed
• [11:45] Medical testimony on bullet’s path and victim’s injuries

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Case 2: Model “Accidentally” Shoots Photographer Boyfriend in Las Vegas

[18:39–26:14]

Incident Summary

• Alessandra "Ali" Blair (20), an aspiring model, claims she accidentally shot her boyfriend Mark Gogan (23) during a gun-themed photo shoot in Las Vegas.
• She was drinking and posing with a loaded gun; her finger was on the trigger even while putting the gun in her mouth.

Key Discussion Points

• Las Vegas Gun Laws

  • Extremely lax; open carry is legal and requires no permit ([18:39]).
  • The hosts express shock at legal and cultural differences from other states.

• Criminal Liability, Jury Considerations

  • Ashley: “I think as a defense lawyer, you’re going to try and keep this out of a jury as much as possible… I think a jury’s not going to like her” ([21:25]).
  • Jonna and Ashley note that “gun people are also gun safety people,” meaning such a jury may hold foolish behavior with firearms more harshly ([24:26]).
  • Arthur: “The biggest issue…is that gun was loaded and ready to be fired…at worst it should be a negligent act, not intentional” ([23:13]).

• Circumstantial Red Flags

  • Social media posts by Blair indicated a “fascination with guns” and “I would love to shoot somebody and get away with it” ([23:13]).
  • There are other indications of possible substance abuse and pre-existing relationship instability.

Notable Quotes

• “When you allow people like that to legally open carry, you’re asking for trouble.” — Jonna Spielbore ([23:56])
• “Every time I’ve picked a jury amongst gun people…the one thing I’ve learned is gun people are also gun safety people.” — Ashley Merchant ([24:26])

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Case 3: Death by Margarita — Restaurant Serves Poisoned Drink

[28:25–38:33]

Incident Summary

• Holly Hill, a mother from Oklahoma, died following complications from ingesting a margarita tainted with a commercial-grade cleaning chemical at a Mexican restaurant.
• One sip caused instant, catastrophic damage. She suffered for years before dying from her injuries.

Key Discussion Points

• Negligence or Homicide?

  • “This is beyond reckless, beyond negligence.” — Jonna ([28:25])
  • Arthur and Ashley explore how industrial cleaners could inadvertently end up in a drink.
  • Debate whether “recklessness” in a kitchen rises to the level of criminal conduct, or if it remains a tragic accident ([31:05]).

• Legal & Regulatory Failures

  • Why didn’t the restaurant get shut down?
  • Insurance and compensation issues: Settlement paid reportedly wasn’t enough to cover medical bills. “Here in New York, she would have gotten at least one more zero added onto that” — Arthur ([33:26]).
  • Potential code violations for storing chemicals near food/beverages.

• Causation and Proof

  • Extended discussion around proving causation, standards of evidence, and the adequacy of the legal remedy ([35:21]).

Notable Quotes

• “Who would go there? … How are they passing inspections after this?” — Ashley Merchant ([34:50])
• “The municipality should be ashamed of themselves for letting them continue to operate.” — Jonna Spielbore ([35:05])

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Brief: Judge Resigns after Public Intoxication

[38:41–43:21]

• Arizona judge Christine Cheff Olsen resigns after being caught on film urinating and vomiting in public.
• Lively debate about whether a moment of “bad judgment” should end a judicial career.

Notable Quotes

• “If this is a judge I like, I don’t care that they’re peeing in bushes… We got enough shitty judges out there.” — Ashley Merchant ([41:16])
• “When you get these prestigious positions… you are held to a different standard.” — Arthur Aidala ([42:15])

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Listener Mailbag and Closing Arguments

[47:34–59:34]

Listener Question

“Have you ever wondered if a case you were prosecuting or defending may be a ‘setup’ or false confession? If so, what did you do?” — Claudine

• Arthur shares his first case as a defense attorney, involving a coerced confession ([48:26]).
• Ashley describes the Ryan Duke/Bo Dukes case involving a false confession and “setup” ([49:56]).

Final Arguments

• Ashley: Explains the grand jury process, how it’s one-sided and not a guarantee of guilt (“You can indict a ham sandwich.”) ([50:59])
• Arthur: Talks about the role of judges and the extra standards they must meet—“respect for the law, respect for each other” ([53:23]).
• Jonna: Delivers a humorous commentary on the horrors of daylight saving time and rural justice in small-town New York ([56:27]).

Notable Quotes

• “When you get up in the dark, work in the dark, and come home in the dark, you’re too tired to kill anyone. That’s how.” — Jonna Spielbore ([58:30])

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Episode Highlights & Memorable Banter

• Frequent references to the unintended consequences of policy and legal changes regarding guns, schools, and restaurants.
• Banter about legal practice, personal anecdotes, and irreverent takes on the stresses of the justice system (“God doesn’t discriminate against potty mouths.” — Jonna [12:55])
• Playful jabs about courtroom attire, jury selection, and the hazards of high heels and margaritas.

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Summary Table — Segment Timestamps

| Topic | Key Timestamps | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------| | Abby Zwerner Trial: Civil case, teacher shot by first-grader | 01:05–17:12 | | Las Vegas Model Shooting: Gun accident or murder? | 18:39–26:14 | | Death by Margarita: Restaurant liability and regulatory lapses | 28:25–38:33 | | Judge’s Public Incidents & Judicial Standards | 38:41–43:21 | | Listener Mailbag: False confessions and legal setups | 47:34–50:59 | | Closing Arguments: Grand jury, judicial ethics, humor on daylight savings | 51:00–59:34 |

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Episode tone: Frank, witty, unfiltered; legal expertise blended with personal insight and humor.

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For Further Questions & Story Suggestions

• Email: [e-mail]

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This summary covers the entire episode’s primary content and conversations, skipping ads and promotional sections.

Transcript

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[A]

Welcome to MK True Crime. I'm Jonna Spielbore, your host today. I'm a criminal defense attorney, shoe aficionado and founding member of Jonna Spielbore Law. My first language is English, but my second is profanity. Here's what's on the docket today. The civil trial of teacher Abby zwerner enters its second week. And Abby was shot by, get this, her first grade student. And now she's suing for 40 million bucks. We'll bring you up to speed on that trial. A model with a fascination for guns shot her boyfriend during a photo shoot. Was it an accident or something else we'll discuss? And the case of a young mom killed by a margarita. Who's to blame? I'll tell you this, it's not Jose Cuervo. We'll get into it. I'm joined today by fellow MK True Crime contributors. Arthur Idella, New York trial attorney and the person Gotham City beckons with. Not a bat signal, but a fedora shaped searchlight. And Ashley Merchant, a criminal defense attorney out of Georgia who is as wicked smart as she is gorgeous. We start with the trial of Abby Zwerner. Okay, you guys, Abby Zwerner, this case. I remember first hearing about this case. Let me give you a little backstory because this is really shocking. Abby Zwerner was a teaching assistant. The school is in Virginia. Sorry, she was a teacher in Virginia. She gets shot one day by a student. Now you might think, what was this? High school? Even junior high. No siree. She got shot by a six year old in her classroom. Who happened to bring a gun to school and apparently knew how to use it. You guys. So now we're not talking about a criminal trial against a six year old right now. We're talking about a civil suit that she filed against the assistant prison principal of the school who she reported this child's, let's say, behavior on a number of occasions in particular this day, and was ignored by that assistant principal. And then eventually she got shot, nearly killed. The bullet pierced her, her chest, it went through her lung. It, her, her lung is now somehow permanently sweet scarred to her chest wall. She has a bullet fragment permanently lodged in her body. She will never be able to get an MRI for the rest of her life, which could be very problematic as she ages because lord knows as we get older, Sometimes we need MRI imaging and she is suing this assistant principal for $40 million. Do we blame her, Ashley?

[B]

Yeah, Donna, so I definitely don't blame this, this lady. I would want to sue too. I mean, she's had a lot of health scares from this. She suffered a lot. And it really sounds like it's from the negligence of her assistant principal. You know, she did everything she should do. She alerted them about this, this gun violence, about that this kid had something in its bag, in the child's bag. And I mean, there's a lot of steps that could have been taken that weren't taken. You know, the first thing that came to mind, they didn't want to do a body search. Okay, well you don't need to do a body search. How about wand the child? Wand the child's backpack? I mean, they definitely have wands there that they could do. Talk to the child. You don't have to do a body search. Talk to the child, see what the child says, see if they're acting suspicious. I mean, there's steps that you can take. I think it's absolutely horrifying that we have to do this with a 6 year old. And I did learn that the mom is charged and that, you know, thank God, because where did this kid get the gun? That's, that's my overwhelming question.

[A]

Yeah, let's talk about that, Arthur. Because the mother of this six year old heathen is doing time, hard time for her neglect. I mean, so is this a case of nature versus nurture? What do you think?

[C]

Well, Jenna, I have to compliment you because you've gone through about three or four minutes and you haven't used your second language yet. So I'm very happy you've kept this segment as clean as you have. I'M sure it would. A lot of self control was necessary to do that.

[A]

Thank you for noticing.

[C]

Yeah, I definitely know. So mom's doing two years in jail on a state charge and then she's got to do another 21 months in jail on a federal charge. Regarding the. So the state charge has to do with criminal negligence, negligence of a child, and the federal charge has to do with the gun. So mom is seeing some form of justice here. Although it's insane that a six year old has a gun. The six year old was definitely a problematic student. He had been accused of trying to strangle a teacher and really being very physical with the teacher. There is an aspect, if I'm the defense attorney, the civil defense attorney, of saying, well, why didn't this teacher help herself? Why was there no self help? In other words, Ashley just articulated all of these steps the assistant principal should have done. But I have no problem telling you that in a, in self defense, if I really thought this kid had a gun, I wouldn't be waiting for the assistant principal to do something. I would be doing something I would be doing with, Ashley said, going over and speaking to the child or pulling security on my own and saying, listen, this kid is saying he's got a gun. Somebody's got to check this out. If, if you, if your request fell on deaf ears to the defendant here in this civil case, the assistant principal, then I would seek out some other remedies if I genuinely believed a kid had a gun.

[A]

I think sometimes, you know, our teachers, our educators feel constrained by so many rules of things they can and cannot do because they're afraid and of getting sued by parents. But, and I can tell, I know both of you are parents. I am not. I probably would have begun with the self help and grabbed this kid by the scruff of the neck, grabbed his backpack, went through, do whatever I got to do. But this teacher followed protocol and was essentially ignored. And I want to play so one, if you don't mind, because this is one of the ways the assistant principal dismissed or pooh poohed this teacher's complaint about this child. Let's play stop one.

[B]

What do you tell Dr. Parker at this time?

[A]

So again, I tell her that I went and checked the bag. I told her just what I said to you all, what was in the bag.

[B]

And then I also tell her that Abby texted me that they were out.

[A]

At recess, that he took something from the bag and he put it in his pocket. Did you tell her you thought it could be a gun? I mean, I told her that I reported that it was a gun.

[B]

I mean, the whole time I assumed.

[A]

She thought it was a gun because that's what the girls reported. And I went and reported to her.

[B]

And what did she say in response to you?

[A]

And you said, he put it in his pocket. She did say that, you know, well, he has little pockets. And I said he put it in his jacket pocket.

[B]

And I was kind of mad, you.

[A]

Know, and I walked away.

[B]

This is just crazy.

[A]

And walked away. So we have to remember that this, right now we're talking about a civil case, right? This victim is suing for damages because of what the, the assistant principal did not do. But I gotta ask you guys, because both of you, again, you're both parents, how does a six year old come to learn? First of all, how do you get your hands on a gun? That's bad parenting number one. How do you come to learn that taking a gun to school and trying to shoot your teacher, or he could have shot and shot other children, how do you learn that behavior? At 6, at 6, all I gave a shit about was like jelly beans and Bugs Bunny.

[B]

That was Halloween costumes, right?

[A]

What is, what is going on? And both of your parents, who wants to take it?

[B]

John, it's terrifying. It is absolutely terrifying as a parent to think of this. And I know Arthur probably has dealt with this unfortunately as well. We are thinking about different things these days as parents than our parents were. I thinking about, are my kids going to be subject to school violence? Are there, you know, every day they go to school that's they're concerned about it? I mean, I've had to have these real conversations with my kids and I can just imagine that this teacher was probably thinking about the safety of other children. But that's one of the reasons we have school resource officers. And I will tell you, this is a very difficult legal and moral debate for people because you've got a six year old and I think most people would think a six year old, their brain's not developed. I mean, clearly, shoot, I have teenagers, I have an 18 year old and her brain is not developed. You know, can we, I mean, definitely not. Sorry, but you know, can we hold a six year old accountable for this? Not really. I mean, the six year old, it's, it's awful.

[C]

The mom, the mom is being held accountable. I mean, look, she's doing two years in state prison, 21 years, 21 months in federal prison. John, I, you know, I will tell the world I don't have a gun in my House. And the primary reason is I have a nine year old and a three year old in the house. And I don't know if the statistics today, it was like a toss up between car accidents and gun, accidental guns. Gun discharges was the number one killer of young people. So obviously this was a dysfunctional home. Can't argue about that. I mean, that, that, that is clear. I mean, I guess when you look at this case and as you know, the level of proof necessary is much lower than a criminal case. Right. The three of us are always talking about beyond the reasonable doubt. Beyond the reasonable doubt. That's not the level of proof here. So the jurors just have to find that, hey, Ms. Parker should have stepped up here and said, okay, it's going to take us five minutes to make sure a student does not have a gun. Or as you said, Ms. Spielbore, besides, the teacher could have shot a student. And I mean, luckily it was a small gun that didn't just blow her away, but it could have been. So, I mean, I think the prosecution here, the plaintiff here, it's a pretty strong argument to this jury saying this woman basically did nothing to try to protect our client. And it's by 2 centimeters. That's what the medical, the doctor who testified by 2 centimeters, she's alive and not dead.

[A]

Yeah, I want to play SOT too, because it sort of describes the nature of her injuries. And then I want to shift gears and talk to you a little bit about potential criminal liability on the assistant principal. Let's go ahead and place that too.

[B]

So can you tell the jury the significance of the blown up image where it shows the bullet 2 cm from the aorta?

[C]

So there are several things about the way this bullet went in that are life threatening. Certainly the injury to the lung where I described that it has collapsed. Any human being can bleed to death from that level of injury to the lung. But again, where this bullet ended up, it went past the heart and just barely missed it and then also ended up within 2cm of the biggest artery in the entire body, which, you know, patients would bleed to death in seconds from an injury to that vessel.

[A]

Wow, that is, that is some scary stuff. Right? And she, even the victim herself said that she thought she was, quote, on her way to heaven. And that's got to be a horrible, horrible, emotionally distressing feeling to think that you are about to die, let alone at the hands of a sick.

[C]

You'd be on your way to heaven or elsewhere. I'm just curious. I mean, you know, we Know each other for a while. I mean, I think it'd be a close call. It'd be like a little crossroads situation.

[A]

God doesn't discriminate against potty mouths. He's. He's all good. I know where I'm gonna go. I'm just not gonna go.

[C]

The only one. Is that the only very long nation we're going with?

[B]

Well, no, but.

[A]

Okay, but this is not about me, so.

[C]

Listen, John, it's always about you.

[A]

I want to talk about even though this is a civil case and I think the testimony is wrapped up, what they probably have left are closing arguments. And I don't know if there's $40 million to get. That is what she is suing for. But can we shift gears real quick and talk about should the assistant principal face criminal charges? She is facing criminal charges for putting all of those other students at risk. Does that smack of the Ethan Crumbley case? Like, is it a bridge too far? Do you think that there is criminal responsibility there, Arthur, since, you know, you got a smart mouth, Let's.

[C]

I think I would say it's a. It's a bridge too far. I mean, just because. And you said this earlier, John, like you both said it like as a six year old really going to be hacking, right? Is a 6 year old really going to be walking around school with a gun and knowing how to use the gun? And it's a loaded gun, not that he just has a gun. It's a gun with a bullet in the chamber ready to be discharged. You know, when you. I mean, I don't know what the population of the school was. I don't know how burdened this assistant principal was, but do you charge her with some form of criminally negligent homicide, which has a very low sentence? I guess it's in the realm of possibilities. If you're a prosecutor who's very zealous, you throw them in the grand jury and you let the citizens of that community make that decision in Virginia.

[A]

Well, Ashley, every single student in that classroom could have died. And who's responsible for that? We did it with Ethan Crumble. We took parents who were nowhere near the scene and convicted them of involuntary manslaughter. What's to stop us from convicting this assistant principal for doing nothing?

[C]

Yeah, but they bought him the gun and everything, didn't they, Crumbly? And they knew about it and he was a target practice and all of those things. This is a six year old who snuck into some closet or didn't and took it from his mom or dad. And that person's already going to do about four years in prison.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think for me, well, and we see there. We see the parent is being held responsible, but the assistant principal, that's a bridge too far for me as well. And I think I'm just.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I've got to say I am very much against criminalizing what I would consider non intentional conduct. You know, a parent is different because you have a duty. It's an intentional duty. You accepted that duty. But an assistant principal, they have a duty. But there's a big difference between a civil duty and a criminal liability. And I just think that's a bridge too far. But I also don't. I don't appreciate over criminalizing cases. I think we over criminalize cases as a society. I think that this assistant principal should be held responsible, but it should be in civil court. And, you know, there's definitely damages there. And we want to send a lesson. But is the civil case going to be able to send that lesson? I hope so, because what do we want here? We want new policies. We want this lady to be compensated for her own loss, obviously, and that's the purpose of a civil lawsuit. But we also want some policy changes. And I would imagine that we're seeing those policy changes. And if we're not, perhaps suing the actual county, perhaps suing the school district would do more to actually promote those changes than trying to lock up this. This assistant principal who probably made a mistake. Was she negligent? Yes. Should she have done more? Yes. But did she have any criminal intent? That's a bridge too far for me.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

It's interesting you say that because this assistant principal is the only defendant in this civil suit. I think the. The school district should also have been sued for this.

[C]

And if I were surprised that the school. I assumed the school district, I mean, because she. This woman who knows what finances she really has, Right. Whereas the school district has insurance policies. And I don't know if she's indemnified as a teacher in any way down in Virginia. But usually you would see in the caption, the school, the school itself, the school district, the superintendent, and the whole kitchen sink to see if she is. Does prevail. If there's money, there's finances anywhere to compensate this thing.

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[A]

We'Re going to move on to another gun case which is equally as egregious and ridiculous and probably shouldn't have happened. But we're going to go over to a Las Vegas case. Now interestingly, in Nevada they have very, very lax gun laws. Like you can, apparently you can open carry, you don't need a pistol permit, you don't need anything. You just need to be I think over 21 and that's it. If you're going to open carry, which is kind of scary and you can't carry if you're drunk, which in the land of, especially in Vegas, in the land of casinos, like everybody's drunk all the time. So it. So that boggles my mind. But here in Las Vegas there was a case where a woman. What is her name? Her name is Al Alessandra, but they call her Ali Blair. She's a 20 year old model. We're going to put model in air quotes because. Okay, air quotes. Thank you. And she. I'm sorry, she was posing with a pistol and her boyfriend whose name is. Was. Was. Because he's no longer with us. Mark Gogan. I'm probably screwing that up.

[C]

You're right.

[A]

Who was only 23. Alessandra herself is 20. He was 23. She's posing with a gun. She, you guys, not like, you know, maybe if you're trying to pose with an unloaded gun and look a little badass. We have a picture of her posing with a gun in her mouth. Thank you. You see that gun in her mouth? And if you notice, her finger is on the trigger. As a gun owner, I am a gun owner. I have a concealed carry permit.

[C]

That.

[A]

That's so offensive to me. And in the course of this photo shoot, she ends up, quote, accidentally shooting her boyfriend dead. Now she is awaiting trial. She's got no bail. She's claiming it was an accident. And again, is this a set of rusk situation? Is it really an accident when you're that reckless, you guys, and somebody loses their lives? Ashley, what do you think?

[B]

This is a hard case to defend. I think you have to make a choice with this case. When you're defending it, you're either going to own up to the conduct and say, I was drunk. Because it's my understanding she had been drinking. She had been partying a little. I was drunk. And I'm going to go for mitigation. You know, that's. That's how we're going to go. This or this was an accident. I think she's going to have a hard time proving this was an accident, though, because it's. Yeah, it's reasonably foreseeable that if you're drunk with a gun, it's going to go off and you're going to be held criminally responsible for that. I think a jury's not going to like her from some of the text. You know, she was texting things about her boyfriend loving her more than. Than she loved him.

[A]

You know, disgusted by it. Disgusted by love.

[B]

It's kind of not a good scene. You know, you don't really want that in front of a jury. So I think as a defense lawyer, you're going to try and keep this out of a jury as much as possible. And if they could develop, you know, maybe she's got some substance abuse problems that's leading her to this. You know, maybe there's something in her life, you know, that that has caused this, that could be mitigation, and that's going to be the best bet because I don't think a jury is going to like this case at all.

[A]

But, Arthur, speaking of juries, Arthur, I mean, it's. It's Vegas, right? If you can walk around with the gun, like, do you think a Vegas Jury is going to be like, oh, happens all the time, no big deal.

[C]

Your point. To your point. Making your point. You know, I'm in New York City where we have the, amongst the strictest gun laws in the country, in the world. And I go to go to Vegas and I get, get into a cab and it's like he's got the navigation, the radio and there's a Glock, like a Glock gun, like right there underneath the radio in a holder. And I'm like, okay, this is interesting. And then I just, I called him out, I go, so situation here, you guys just got the gun just sitting right there. Like, oh yeah, we're allowed to. It's not a problem. And it's, look, it's a cultural thing to say. The same way I would ask that same can driver, you know, could you make me a little rigatoni with pesto on it and add some sun dried tomatoes. And he would know what I'm talking about. Like, I don't. For me it's foreign to be running around with a gun. But the fact that on this set that gun was loaded and ready to be fired, that's the biggest issue. Look, I represent some guys in the rap industry, whatever they call that music nowadays. I'm a Sinatra guy myself, but they have guns all over the place. But they're not loaded, they don't even have the clip in.

[A]

How do you know?

[C]

Because I'm, I, I know. These are my guys, you know.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And well, they've never killed and they've never shot anyone. It's never gone off. And I mean there was also an issue on this case where one of the witnesses says they saw the defendant hit the deceased with a vodka bottle. Yeah, his ribs, when he wasn't looking around the same time. And I think they said it was like inhumane the way she attacked him. She's got all these crazy social media posts saying, I would love to shoot somebody and get away with it. So this is a rough road for the defense attorney here to hoe, except saying all these things could be true. But there's no evidence that she did anything intentionally. And at worst it should be a negligent act, not an intentional act.

[A]

This is just one of those cases to me that stinks like circumstantially when you look at her social media posts. The fact that she said something ridiculous like I'm disgusted by the way he loves me, that the prosecution thinks she was obsessed with guns tells me, I mean, I don't. Like I said I am a gun owner. I'm an avid Second Amendment. But when you allow people like that to legally open carry, you're asking for trouble.

[B]

That's a good point. And I think if you're thinking about the jury pool out there, yes, guns are legal and people regularly carry them. They're gun people. But every time I've picked a jury amongst gun people, the one thing I've learned is that gun people also are gun safety people. So I'm sure, Johnny, you're probably, you probably preach gun safety. So those jurors are going to be super critical. Yes, they're going to be welcome to the fact that they have a gun. They're going to. That's going to be normal. But they're also going to be super, super critical of gun safety, and they're going to think this was reckless. They're going to hold her probably to a higher, higher standard. I actually wouldn't want gun owners on the jury because they're vicious to other gun owners that don't actually exercise reasonable safety, you know, because this gives all gun owners a bad name. And I think that they're nervous that things like this are going to try to outlaw guns. And so those jurors tend to be much more, you know, hold people accountable if they aren't protective of guns and aren't, you know, good with guns.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I said, this is kind of offensive to me. And even though I have guns and I can conceal carry, I rarely do concealed carry.

[B]

Just because you don't drink and shoot, right? You don't drink.

[A]

Definitely don't drink and shoot. You're not allowed to do. There's so many exceptions to where you can actually carry in the state of New York that it almost swallows the rule. And if you are applying for a pistol permit in New York, you're going to have to go in front of a judge, and a judge is going to quiz you on all the places you can't carry, which is very.

[C]

Which is, by the way, right here in my office. Like I'm right by Times Square. And I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to carry no Times Square, right?

[A]

No. Well, and even you need a special permit to carry in New York City. So if I'm driving into the city, I can't have my, any of my guns with me because that's a felony. I'm going to have to call Arthur and God knows he's going to charge me.

[C]

Just a bunch of margaritas. I'm just going to charge you a bunch of margaritas. Safe margaritas.

[B]

Safe margaritas. Not like.

[A]

Thank you for that segue you guys, because we are going to shift from shootings into cocktails. Actually one of them very deadly because coming up next, a judge resigns after urinating in public and a mom was killed by her margarita. Stay tuned. And remember, before we take this break, you can email us. We love to read your comments and stories, suggestions. Just email us@mktruecrimevilmaycare media.com MK true crimeevelmaycaremedia.com and we will be right back.

[C]

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[D]

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[A]

We are back and this story is unbelievable and also very disheartening. A mom from Oklahoma, Holly Hill, ordered a margarita at her local Mexican restaurant and it ended up being the worst mistake of her life. And by that I mean, you guys, it ended her life. So here is the backstory and I find this, we're going to debate this, but I find this really incredulous. So Holly Hill goes into a Mexican restaurant, right? She orders a margarita. She takes one sip, one sip immediately. Her entire digestive system, it feels like it's on fire. She runs to the restroom. She's throwing up. She's trying to rinse her mouth out with water. It Turns out that what she drank was, I guess, in addition to the usual ingredients of a margarita, there was a commercial grade extremely caustic, extremely toxic cleaner in her drink. Well, fast forward, she goes to the hospital. Turns out her esophagus is basically disintegrated. She has, I don't know, something like 30 surgeries. She had surgeries up the wazoo to try to fix things so that she could eat and drink like a normal person. Fast forward two years. The woman dies from complications from those injuries. The restaurant is still up and running. And I find this very hard to believe, you guys, that this was an accident. This is beyond reckless, beyond negligence.

[C]

I know, but, John, what evidence do you have that someone wanted to kill her? I mean, you know, usually they go, okay, first person you go to is the spouse. Then you go to someone who they owe money with or a business partner. From what the research I've done here, there's none of that. She's just a sweet woman who, you know, maybe someone. Look, this has us all thinking. We spoke off air. This has us all thinking of, like, how easily this could happen. You know, there are so many restaurants here in midtown Manhattan. There's craziness of the amount of people they're doing things quickly. And so. And look, let's face it, most of the people who are working in the back of these restaurants, they don't have PhD degrees.

[A]

Arthur can't read toilet bowl cleaner and. And sour mix. You got to know that.

[C]

But an accident can happen. Oh, I mean, you, You. I mean, we.

[A]

Reckless.

[C]

We talk about people who have dead frogs in their food, dead mice in their food, who have allergens that shouldn't be there in their food. So, you know, you just can't jump to say that this is a crime. It's a tragedy. There is no doubt about that, that it's a tragedy. And, you know, no one's gotten to the bottom of the line is what was the chemical? It was a strong, industrial chemical. And, you know, Ashley said earlier maybe a policy of like, banning those from anywhere near a kitchen, you know, until the place is closed is in order.

[A]

We. We all know that sometimes reckless behavior rises to the level of criminal behavior. We all know that. How could this be? Let's reverse engineer. How could it not be utterly reckless to have that kind of chemical near the well where you're serving drinks.

[B]

I think part of the problem is we don't know how it got in there. You know, I mean, that's what. What troubles me because theoretically, someone Is washing the dishes. Okay, so you shouldn't have something this corrosive. If it's this corrosive, it's not washing a dish, because a lot of those are plastic, you know, and they're, you know, you don't have corrosive things. So I think someone must have mixed up chemicals. My guess, I mean, you know, whoever's watched years of Dexter and reads weird serial killer novels and stuff. Muriatic acid. They probably had it for clogged bathroom drains. I mean, that's one of those things. If you have toilets that clog regularly, what's the only fail safe? Muriatic acid. It will eat through bone. That's. I'm thinking, must have had a slip of that, you know, And I know that sounds creepy, but it's got to be something like that. So was it mislabeled? I mean, was it. How did it end up in the dishes? And why. This is the one thing that if you are going down that conspiracy theory route, Jonah. Why did it only end up in her drink? That's the only.

[A]

That was my next question.

[C]

Why does it only end up in hers? But I don't know how. What small amount is necessary to cause that damage? Could it just be a bad splash? So Ashley is cleaning out the drain, and she pours it in and it splashes up and it goes into this particular glass, and then it is then served, you know, and it takes the poor woman down. But, I mean, John, of the injury that the woman suffered and the way her life had been destroyed. Yeah, I mean, that last margarita should be paying her. I mean, there's an undisclosed amount that they're saying wasn't enough to even cover the $80,000 in medical bills.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, here in New York, she would have gotten at least one more zero added onto that. And after a death, maybe two more zeros added onto that.

[B]

Yeah, you know, they must have had insufficient insurance coverage because, you know, it sounded like they had hit policy limits. And if 80,000 isn't covered in medical bills, then they had a really low policy. They need to have a much higher policy. So I would imagine that there's going to be some looking at some code ordinances and some local ordinances to see if they need to have a higher insurance to cover things like this happening.

[A]

Guys, how can this restaurant still be open? So, first of all, you should have adequate coverage because, you know, certain restaurants, you could accidentally die in a restaurant. It might not be your fault. They should have adequate coverage. Second of all, you killed somebody. Somehow I'm convinced that it wasn't an accident. You kill somebody somehow, and only one person, like in a Mexican restaurant. She was not the only person drinking a damn margarita. We, I mean, let's just. Let's be real here. And then you get to stay open, and then you get to have this, this little, I don't know, social media post where we're so deeply sorry. But let tell you, we continue to welcome our patrons with care, responsibility, and attention to their well being. So long as we're not pouring Drano in their margarita, they're still.

[B]

Oh, who would go there?

[A]

Would you? I wouldn't go there.

[C]

Johnny, you would go there once you want your margarita, you're one of the. You're one of the people. You're always. Margarita.

[B]

Now I'm surprised this place is still in business. And I can't help but wonder if part of the settlement was an NDA, a non Disclosure agreement or Non disparagement agreement, where to get the money, they had to sign something. Something which is ridiculous because the public should know about this. How are they passing inspections after this?

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. So that, I mean, to me, it's just disgusting. And the municipality should be ashamed of themselves for letting them continue to operate.

[C]

You know why? Hold on one second, John. Let's be lawyers for a second.

[A]

All right?

[C]

How does the municipality prove that, in fact they caused the damage? How do they prove it? We. We could assume it. We could guess it.

[B]

Test the drink.

[C]

Who are you going to put. Who are you going to put on the stand?

[A]

The establishment essentially assumed liability when it paid out on the civil case, even though there was a non.

[C]

Most likely before there was this settlement. When you're negotiating this, how are you able to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that in fact they caused the harm?

[A]

Are you saying that some stranger came and dumped Drano in her margarita after the bartender gave it to her?

[C]

Your Honor, I just. What I want is the proof. I want the proof that that is admissible under the rules of evidence to actually prove that this happened. We could assume what happened, but let's.

[A]

Let our professors talk to you about circumstantial evidence and how if you. If you go outside and it's wet, you can assume that it was raining.

[C]

How many hands. How many hands touched did that. That last touch, from the moment it came out of the box to go to the washer, to go to the person mixing the drink. Then it goes to the person who's actually serving the drink. So who did It. Where was it done?

[B]

That's what a good defense lawyer would do. But the law says that the testimony of one witness alone, if believed, is enough. So, I mean, if that's enough for a reasonable.

[C]

What's that witness going to say, though? What she's the witness going to say.

[B]

So this lady is going to say that immediately as she drank, her throat seized up and she felt pain, and it was immediate. She didn't have it before, but she had it when she drank it. So it's reasonable to.

[C]

How do we know who put whatever.

[B]

Oh, we don't know who put it. But if we've got. You could have videos. I would immediately go look for the videos to see if there were videos. And you don't really have to know if it was the bartender or if it was the wait staff or if it was the kitchen staff. You don't need to know that it's the establishment. As long as a patron or some intervening cause didn't happen to take it out of the seat staff's hands and then put it in someone else's hands. There's no causation break. The causation is straight from that. That vendor, that restaurant, straight to her lips.

[C]

And you think, Ashley, that that's enough to shut the restaurant down?

[B]

I think it could. Shoot. I. There are cockroaches that shut down restaurants. I see restaurants shut down all the time for failing a health inspection.

[C]

I don't mean for a couple of days if there's cockroaches. If the refrigerator is not at the right temperature, it's closed down until it's. It's fixed.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But do you think under these circumstances, the restaurant should be closed forever?

[B]

I think it could be closed forever, Arthur. I think the local community should get it closed. They should stop going to it.

[A]

Well, it's got to be a ghost town. I'm sure somewhere in the health code in that neighborhood in Oklahoma, it is going to say, never ever, ever, never store your caustic chemicals anywhere near where you are serving food or beverage. I'm sure it's in there and they violated that. So board up the place. As far as I'm concerned, they'll just open up.

[C]

I will tell the single mom who's back there washing dishes and preparing the food that Johnna took your job away.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Your kids gotta go.

[A]

That's right. That's right. Johnna, open the Margarita aficionado.

[C]

Okay. All right, listen, I feel bad for the kids who are going hungry because of John. The Spielboard's Decision. Okay. I'm a different kind of guy.

[A]

I. I don't have a clock, but I'm gonna. We're gonna switch gears yet again, because this story is a little bit lighter, a little bit. Guys, we all. We all know judges. We all rub elbows, Elbows with judges. Not as many judges as Arthur does. Right. Me and you, Ashley, but we know a few.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do you feel. How would you feel if, say, one of your favorite judges was caught on camera puking and peeing on the sidewalk for all the world to see, eventually getting arrested and then having her husband getting arrested for coming to her side? Because this happened in Arizona, where a judge pro tem. Her name. Her name is Christine. Spelled kind of interestingly. Chef Olsen, age 42, was scrambling to get out of the bushes, where she was relieving herself, vomiting, urinating, and the cops caught it all on camera. She had to resar. She chose to step down. So before we get into it, let's just look with our own eyes at what happened here.

[D]

Let's roll.

[A]

SOT 7.

[C]

What are you doing? Why? What are we doing?

[A]

Uber.

[C]

This is disgusting.

[A]

I'm waiting for an Uber.

[C]

Okay, this is unacceptable. Where's your ID? Are you her husband? Y. Okay. Can you hang out over by the cab for me? Nope. Come on. Yeah, you can, because I'm conducting an investigation. For what? Because I just saw her puking and urinating, exposing herself to several people. Okay, you can go by the cab, or you can continue to interfere with the investigation. Okay, last chance. Go over to the cab. No. Okay, well, then you're detained.

[A]

Stop.

[C]

You can't do this. I'm gonna throw you on the ground if you resist. I gave you several chances, and you don't want to listen. We have a cab. I'm the one that vomited. Okay, regardless, I saw her with her entire under exposed, peeing in that bush, as well as several other people.

[A]

Okay, not nearly as entertaining as the I'm an ag video of several weeks back. But, Ashley, I mean, come on. This. This one's rough.

[B]

I'm going to take a. Probably an obstinate position from everyone else. And you said, this is a judge I like. If this is a judge I like. I don't care that they're peeing in the bushes. Honestly. I care that they're ruling on my motions timely. I care that they're respecting me. I care they're respecting my client. I care they're following the law. You know, if they had a drunk, stupid night, I'm pretty sure we all have they should have had better judgment. Issue a really, really kick ass apology, Take some substance classes, do something like that, and get your bot back on the bench because we got enough shitty judges out there that we don't need to lose a good judge just because they're peeing in the bushes.

[C]

Well, necessarily disagree with Ashley. It's all about the video, though, Nashley. It's all about the video. If this was just a written report that just said we found this person, X, Y and Z. Yeah. And she was doing X, Y and Z, and she turned out to be a judge, probably she would be doing what you said, getting some sort of treatment or whatever. But look, Johnna, you know, we. We call judges, your honor, right?

[A]

I mean, yeah, we do.

[C]

As much as I respect you, I don't call you your honor. I call you beautiful Johnna Spielberg. And when you get that title, it has a lot of pros and a couple of cons. And the cons are you are held to a different standard. I. You know, I wouldn't lose my job if the exact same thing happened to me. Not that it would, because I know how to hold.

[B]

That's why I'm not a judge.

[C]

Was that why? So, I mean, but the judge did the right thing. She took herself and her family out of the limelight and she's moving on. And I'm sure she'll wind up on her two feet.

[A]

Well, and she probably does. And she. She alluded to the fact that she's having some medical issues, so maybe she does need a little stimulus. Stint in rehab. Right. Being a judge is a tough job. Being a lawyer is a tough job. So I applaud her for that. But guys, you guys know we are lawyers 24 7, so we gotta try not to embarrass ourselves right when we're out in public. Not that it. It hasn't happened. You know, I've been that girl at a wedding a time or two. Hate to admit it.

[C]

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be held against you. Okay.

[A]

School board I will exercise right now. All right. Because I think we're going to take another break and when we come back, we're going to really. The favorite part of the show are your questions and our closing arguments. They're both coming up after this break.

[B]

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[A]

So we're gonna get to our closing arguments and your mail. But first, Megyn Kelly is going on tour and we're all going with her. Now, listen, this is really exciting, you guys. If you haven't gotten tickets, she's literally going coast to coast. She's got shows coming up that Arthur and I will be at in White Plains, New York. She's going to Jacksonville, Florida, Miami, Florida, Duluth, Georgia, Bakersfield, California, Anaheim, California, and Glendale, Arizona. Listen, these tickets go fast. If you haven't already gotten them, please do. You can do that by going to MeganKelly.com and get your tickets. It's going to be a very exciting few weeks. So get your tickets. Megan Kelly dot com.

[C]

I'm excited. John, are you excited?

[A]

I am very excited.

[C]

Are we gonna, like, dance on the stage? Are we gonna do like a tango or something before Megan and Tucker Carlson? Come on.

[A]

I'm gonna tell you why we can't do that. I'm gonna tell you why. Because I have special designer shoes for this show. Of course they're a little bit higher than I'm normally used to, and I don't want to embarrass myself. So why.

[C]

Why do you have to go so high? Would you want to, like, be taller than I am? I'm basically close to six feet. I mean, what's the matter? We don't.

[A]

I don't get to wear these shoes to court because they're not court.

[C]

So we're not going to dance on stage in front of all these people because of your shoe choice.

[A]

Listen, you can just hold me up and make sure I don't like what? Did I ever tell you guys? One time I was wearing my favorite pair of, like, Gucci clogs in a Mexican restaurant on my way to have a poisonous margarita.

[B]

Gucci.

[A]

And this the. The tile floor, because it's a Mexican restaurant, had a tile floor. And I'm sachet in my way to the bathroom. And down goes Frasier. So embarrassing. I don't want that to happen on stage. Megan will kill me. I don't want it.

[C]

So I appreciate the down goes Frazier comment. That's very, very good. Very. You're showing your age there, kid. But I really appreciate that.

[A]

No, stop. All right, but speaking of age, that's not even a segue. We do have a question from one of our beloved listeners, slash viewers in our legal mailbag. All right, this is from Claudine. I love this question. She said, have you ever wondered if a case you were prosecuting or defending may be a, quote, setup or false confession? If so, what did you do? Do you think setups happen? Thanks for the great show. I love the back and forth between all of you, especially the spicy jabs. So much fun. Now, listen, you guys. What do you think she means by a setup? Like, I'm not quite sure what she means by that.

[D]

You.

[C]

Well, she said a false confession, right?

[B]

That happened. Yeah. I've had a case. I've had a case with both.

[C]

So my very first case, John, my very first case as a criminal defense attorney after I left the Brooklyn DA's office after four years and changed. It was a young man who was accused of shooting seven people. Said, thank God nobody died but seven people in the middle of the day in a very crowded area of Brooklyn. And when they arrested someone and they got to the precinct, they handed they go, Artie. Because I knew them from my capacity as prosecutors, and now I'm wearing the other hat, but they're like, artie, we got him dead to rights. And he was identified and he signed a confession So I go, and they lock me in the cage with them. That was an interesting experience. And he's crying and he's out of his mind saying, I didn't do this. I didn't do this. I said, bro, you got a signed confession here. And basically, like out of the movies, he goes, the detective told me, either, you know, my signature or my blood was going to be on the confession page. To his credit, another detective who I knew came over to me and said, arthur, something's not right here, because the facts that this kid confessed to, they don't jive to the facts of the crime. And sure enough, through some great investigation, we found a videotape of my client in the county of Queens when he was supposed to be executing or trying to execute people in the county of Kings. And the case was dismissed. That was my very first serial case as a defense attorney. So, yes, it happens. God willing, it doesn't happen often in this beautiful country, but, yes, Claudine, it definitely happened.

[B]

Yeah, Claudine, if you're interested in a wild case like that, you should Google Ryan and Bo Dukes. So Ryan Duke and Bo Dukes. Not related, two different names. I represented Ryan Duke, and it was a setup and it was a false confession. And so the, you know, luckily that trial was broadcast, and so you can actually go and watch. But I would say watch the cross examination of the lead detective in that case, Jason Schedell, where I broke down his interview with my client, the false confession and how everything didn't fix and didn't meet what the evidence was, and the setup was the other guy, Bo Dukes. So I would encourage you to go check that out. I think you will go down a lot of rabbit holes, and you will see how a setup can really happen.

[A]

We love rabbit holes. Love rabbit holes. Speaking of rabbit holes, it's time for our closing arguments. Even though the time always goes so fast with you guys. And we hate to leave, but we'll do girl, boy, girl, and we'll start with the gorgeous professor Ashley Merchant.

[B]

Thanks. Thanks so much. All right, so tonight I'm going to profess about the grand jury process. So we've been talking about the different stages of a legal case, and I wanted to talk about grand jury. And the reason I wanted to talk about that is it's really the next phase in a criminal case, but also because one of our stories we talked about earlier, where that lady in Las Vegas had her gun. Gun and shot it. It just went in front of a grand jury, and they indicted it. So I want to talk about how if you serve on a grand jury, it is one sided. And a lot of folks don't ever serve on a grand jury so they don't really know what happens and how the sausage is made. But what it is. I'm going to walk you through the exact process. It is a group of people that are sworn in for a period of time so they don't serve on just one case like a trial jury. They are a jury that hears lots of different cases. They may hear multiple cases in one day and they vote whether or not to indict. A lot of times when people come and they serve on jury service later on, they think that it's some magical process and it's this, you know, testing of the evidence and there must be sufficient case. No, what it is is it's, there's probable cause and that random people who don't know anything about the law and did not hear what we call an adversarial process decided that there was enough evidence to go forward. Sort of the default. They say you can indict a ham sandwich and that is completely true. You can indict a ham sandwich. Why? Because it's only the prosecutor in there. They don't get to hear anything from the defense. So whatever arguments, whatever holes we're poking, whatever alternate sides that we're talking about, never heard. The grand jury only hears what the state wants them to hear. And typically they don't even hear from anybody involved in the case. They hear from an officer who's saying what other people told them. And it's selective. It's only what that officer wants to tell them. Now there is a process that we have, and I wish we had it more, where if an officer, police officer, at least in the state of Georgia, if they are under indictment, they're allowed to testify. So we give them the right to have what we would consider a more adversarial proceeding where they actually can tell their side of the story. But otherwise citizens sides of the story and those accused of crimes never come out. And it's very one sided. So next time you hear someone's indicted doesn't mean a whole lot.

[A]

Agreed. That was a very good nutshell of.

[C]

The grand jury just to follow that up sometimes in for I've never done it, but in theatrical ways. Defense attorneys will start off their opening statements by taking the indictment and ripping it up. That's based on what Ashley just said?

[A]

Yeah, it's junk.

[C]

This really means nothing. Well, speaking of the courtroom, I'll just take one Minute to talk about the courtroom and who presides over the courtroom. We just did a segment about a judge who arguably acted inappropriately in a very public forum. And when you become a judge, you have people's lives in your hands, no matter what kind of judge you are. If you're a matrimonial judge, you're deciding when a father gets to see their child or how much money one parent has to pay to the other. If you're in the housing court, can someone live there or they can't live there? And obviously, in a criminal court, the type of evidence that a jury hears and the kind of sentence that a defendant gets, it is a very prestigious position. And it is one where, you know, you're called your honor. And you know, John, I made a remark earlier about, you know, I know a lot of judges. I do, because I'm older now, and so a lot of my friends, colleagues, law school classmates are judges now. These are people I've gone to football games with and parties with. And I have to walk in a courtroom and say, hello, your honor. So that. But. And that's cool. I have no problem doing that. But I will also tell you, they live their lives in a way to avoid any such controversy. There are events that I go to that they can't go to with me because they're political events, or there are events that I go to that maybe start a little later in the evening and go on until a little later in the evening. And they're just concerned, especially now that everyone has a camera, that they're going to be photographed, you know, doing something wrong. I went to a dinner with the mayor of the city of New York, and he insisted not only just drinking water, he wanted it in a Poland Spring bottle so that people could see he was drinking water and not drinking alcohol. So when you get these prestigious positions, whether it's an elected official, yesterday was election day, or you're sitting on the bench, or you're a prosecutor, you know, you get to carry that shield. You get certain courtesies. If you get pulled over, oh, I'm on the job. Okay. You get to drive. Keep going. You don't get a summons. But the flip side of the coin is you're held to a higher standard, as you should be, because you are a very special person. You've been designated as a special person in our society. So with that being said, I will not be running for office. I will not be asking for a judgeship, because I don't know if I could live up to those standards, although I try to. But the word surrounding all of this, whether it's about the judiciary, whether it's about election day, is respect. Respect for the law, respect for each other, and basically realize that we're all in this together and we should all do the best that we could be. Do to be the best citizens that we could be.

[A]

Well, for somebody who doesn't want to be a judge, that was a very nice stump speech. I appreciate it that. You know what, Arthur? And I don't believe you. I think someday, like, we're going to be in our late 60s and people are going to be calling you. Your Honor.

[C]

No, my ADD would never allow me to sit that long at one place at one time.

[A]

You do. You do have a mild case of add, but. Okay, so now with. With those two brilliant closing arguments, we're going to take a turn into something a little bit silly. And that's mine. So, since we just celebrated the turning back of the clocks, I have to confess that the only thing I hate more than close talkers, loud chewers, and lousy neighbors is the end of daylight saving time. Why? Because the only things I like to do in the dark, you guys, are sleep and eat. That's a real problem when you're a lawyer who sometimes works in small courts that hold dockets after 5pm I always thought night court was a stupid idea and one I wasn't used to. When I moved back to my hometown after practicing law for a decade in San Diego, which was back then the sixth largest jurisdiction in the country. Talk about culture shock. The only thing we defense lawyers were doing after 5 o' clock were cocktails. Imagine my surprise when I found myself back in New York practicing country bumpkin law in courthouses that often met in buildings that doubled as the neighbor's shed, or worse, a rusty trailer like the kind you find in a horror flick with chainsaws and deer heads hanging on the wall, I did a little research to find out why. Why am I sitting in a glorified outhouse waiting to handle someone's traffic ticket for following a cow too closely? The reason, as best I could tell, is that here in my little New York City bedroom community, you don't even need to be a lawyer to be a judge. Oh, no, no. Here you get the votes. You get the robe. Legal knowledge? Nah. Who gives a shit? Not necessary. As a result, the local farmer, birdwatcher, or town whore for that matter, could become a judge. Back in the day, once dusk descended on your field of corn or dreams, you Jump off your tractor, kick the shit off your boots and wipe the last remnants of mutton stew from your wiry beard with a hand sewn hanky before opening your garage to the town's ne' er do wells. Which brings me back to my original point. When you're a modern day lawyer who runs her own firm with hundreds of clients working 9 to 5 is just a catchy tune. My day starts before the moon puts herself to bed and ends right about the time she wakes back up. But the longer nights of standard time are not just my problem, they're yours too. On account of the crime rate for so called street crimes actually goes up up this time of year. Specifically due to the increased darkness. Oddly, while street crimes increase, violent crimes like rape and murder go down. How can that be? Because when you get up in the dark, work in the dark and come home in the dark, you're too fucking tired to kill anyone. That's how I suppose every dark cloud has a silver lining. But I suppose still hate it. And that's my closing.

[C]

Almost got through the whole show without your pow potty mouth making an appearance.

[A]

No, we can't. That's right, we cannot. Just like we can't go through the whole show without looking at your beautiful bald head or Ashley merchants freshly foiled locks.

[C]

Right?

[B]

We can't.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

All right.

[A]

That's my job. All right.

[C]

Thank you for running the show today, John. Thank you. You did a marvelous.

[A]

No. And thank you guys. You guys, you guys are the best. And thank everybody for listening and watching and. And hopefully you can come out tonight and see me and Arthur on stage. Hopefully I will stay upright and please. So thank you my fellow contributors, Arthur Idella, Ashley Merchant, and thank all of you for joining us today at MK True Crime. Don't forget to send us your story, suggestions, questions and comments at MK True Crime as Devil Knight. Maycaremedia.

[C]

Com.

[A]

Have a great week.