← MK True Crime
MK True Crime
Shock New D4vd Allegations, Rob Reiner Son Speaks Out, and Rapper Julio Foolio’s Murder Trial, with Bruce Rivers
00:54:12
The MK True Crime Show hosts Phil Holloway and Ashleigh Merchant join the program to discuss private investigator Steve Fischer’s bombshell announcement that he can prove singer D4vd had more than one underage relationship, the public pressure facing streaming platforms hosting D4vd’s music, an actress from a D4vd music video publicly distances herself, Jake Reiner’s devastating new Substack post sharing the moment he learned younger brother Nick murdered their parents, why inmates at Atlanta Federal Correctional Institution are mad about the new Superman movie, why the 2027 blockbuster is filming in the notorious jailhouse, criminal defense attorney and YouTube creator Bruce Rivers joins Phil and Ashleigh to discuss the future of D4vd’s defense, the outrageous Julio Foolio trial happening now in Florida, how gang violence plays into the case, and more. Phil Holloway: https://x.com/PhilHollowayEsq Ashleigh Merchant: https://www.criminaldefenseattorneysmarietta.com Bruce...
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- [00:00]
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- [00:26]
Bruce Rivers
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- [00:49]
Phil Hawley
Welcome to the MK True Crime Show. I'm Phil Hawley. I'm a criminal lawyer. I'm a former prosecutor and I'm an ex cop. I know a great true crime show when I see one. And we've got one for you today. And I'm very happy to be joined by my co host and my friend Ashley Merchant, also a criminal defense lawyer from Atlanta, Georgia. Ashley, I hope you're having a great day because we've got a lot to talk about. Let's go over what we have on the docket today. We first have out in California, David, or D4VD was charged with first degree murder last week in the death of 14 year old Celeste Rivas Hernandez. Now, a private investigator says Celeste may not be the only minor to have an inappropriate relationship with the singer.
- [01:39]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah, Phil. And we also have Jake Reiner who, who is Robin Michelle's oldest son. He's actually broken his silence recently on the murder of his parents that happened last year. We'll discuss the details that he shared about what it was like to learn his brother Nick had killed both his parents. The Hollywood power.
- [01:57]
Phil Hawley
And later on the show, we're going to have criminal defense attorney Bruce Rivers joining us to break down the latest in the wild Julio Foolio trial going on down in Florida, which includes incriminating music videos posted just days after the brazen murder. But first, Ashley, we start with David or D4VD. It's really hard for me to just call him David when he spells his name that way.
- [02:24]
Ashley Merchant
I know. I feel like we should have a different, a different way to say it because it's, you know, I know, but defore. Yeah, it's, it's, it's difficult. I'm sure jury will just have a blast with that one. Yeah. The latest on him, it's not good. I mean, I'm not going to lie. I think David with the four is toast. The latest is that he has apparently had another relationship with another minor. And this is a problem because relationships with minors are really easy for the state to prove, and they carry a lot of prison time. And so I think this is going to be a problem. I think it also could come in, as we call similar transactions or other bad acts. But what we've heard just to catch our listeners up, is Steve, who we've actually had on this show before. Steve Fisher. He is a P.I. a private investigator who was hired by David's former landlords. And he recently said during his investigation that he has proof that Celeste was not the singer. David's first inappropriate relationship with a minor. He said not only did he have that proof, but that there's photographic evidence and also that he turned that over to the authorities. So. So I think that's not a good sign for Mr. David.
- [03:29]
Phil Hawley
No. And look, it's just getting worse almost by the day for David. And we learned last week it was supposed to be, you know, a preliminary hearing, which happens really quickly in California. We're supposed to have a preliminary hearing, which is a judicial determination of probable cause. Right. The defense wanted it really fast, but it didn't happen as planned, because in my opinion, I think this is why. Anyway, they learned, the defense learned that when David was arrested, they found a lot of CSAM material, which is pictures depicting inappropriate activity with minors. I hesitate to use the actual legal verbiage because of YouTube and the way that things are couched on this platform, but CSAM material was found on his phone. And so I think that may have sort of been a surprise to the defense. So now we're gonna have to wait a few more days. But the prosecution, actually, they say that they're eager to get the case scheduled for trial.
- [04:33]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah, I'm sure they are. I mean, they've had some time to get their ducks in a row. And actually, I'm pretty impressed with the fact that they've had three different investigatory grand juries, which is smart, as we've talked about on the show before, because it locks in testimony. So they've got witnesses that could potentially be super reluctant, you know, or maybe they talked to police, lied to police. It's a who different when you actually take the stand and you swear to tell the truth. Very different story. So I think they probably do have their ducks in a row. But one of the newest updates that we're learning is that major streamers, including Spotify and Apple, Music are now facing public pressure to remove David's music from their platform. Does not surprise me at all. He's also collaborated with several different artists, and those artists have been removing their songs. He was dropped by his label last year. And the biggest thing that we're watching now is the popular game Fortnite, which if you have teenagers or, you know, preteens, you know all about you and I both do all about Fortnite. But apparently David collaborated with Fortnite back in 24 and 25, 2024 and 2025 to release two music tracks, which I got to tell you, I didn't know you could release music tracks on Fortnite. But hey, you learn something new every day. And some dance animation for purchase. I know whenever I mention David to my kids, they make a crazy face. So I'm not sure how popular it was, but I'm guessing it was. But Fortnite is saying that they hear the concerns and they're going to apparently do something about it. They said they have a lot of changes coming up, but we don't really know what all those changes are. But I guess we're going to be looking forward to seeing how they actually handle this.
- [06:00]
Phil Hawley
And you know, what else is, is kind of new. Ashley. We've got details of Celeste Revis life making their way to the press. Her family's devastated and they just couldn't. And I don't blame them for not being in court the other day, and I suspect that they may not be in court the next time either. But the community where she grew up is Lake Elsinore, California. It's not that big. It's a town of around 70,000 people. And it's north, 80 or so miles north of the Hollywood Hills home where Celeste was last seen alive. The neighborhood has small houses with chain link fences. And you know, her parents home has rosary beads now hanging on the front door in a painted rock nearby, reading, you matter. And it's just so sad. In one of the music videos that's out there, we'll show the video portion of it. We can talk about it right now. You can see the. There's the actress who looks so much like Celeste, right? And she's laying on a bed, presumably deceased, with what appears to be stab wounds in her torso. And it's surreal how, how close that really is to what prosecutors and the medical examiner say happened to Celeste. Ashley, did you see that?
- [07:24]
Ashley Merchant
I did. And you know, we've been dealing with this for a couple years. I mean, maybe about 10 years we've started having a lot of rap lyrics, music lyrics come into court. You know, it's more common now. Historically, there was always lyrics that had talked about crime, but we're seeing them being used in court, and I think it's interesting. I know we're gonna talk a lot more with our guest and in the upcoming part of the show about this, but just a little preview. There is a big controversy, really, nationwide, as to whether or not rap lyrics and different music lyrics should be able to be admitted into court. And this video, yeah, this video is like a prime example. So there's different philosophies that people have. One of them is to try to keep this out. The other is obviously, if it comes in, try and discredit it. And so, you know, with this. With this video, when I first heard it, when I first saw it, when I saw the lyrics, I said, oh, great. You know, if I was the defense lawyer, I would be cringing. But when you really think about it, it's not romantic homicide. It could refer to emotional pain. It could refer to heartbreak. You know, I mean, that's what music does. It's metaphoric. It's an exaggeration. You know, it's all those different things. So we don't really know what it means. Who knows the interpretation? And there's also. There's no mention of Celeste. Problem is this girl looks a heck of a lot like Celeste, but that's something that I'm sure both sides will be arguing at some point. But there's no details.
- [08:38]
Phil Hawley
No. Not only does she look like her, she's. She's laying there with bloody stab wounds in her torso. I mean, it's really surreal. We saw this. We saw the use of sort of lyrics in Fulton County, I guess, last year in the YSL trial here in Atlanta, and the music industry got all up in arms about it. And. Look, I understand that, but we also, a little bit later in the show, we're going to talk about the Julio Foolio down in Florida. And they. The use of rap lyrics and rap videos are playing prominently in that trial right now. And so you've got some states that are passing legislation to limit or severely restrict the use of it. And California has such a law, and other states are moving in that direction. Florida, apparently, on the other hand, is less restrictive about it, but it does come down to the subjective interpretation. What does a jury possibly think it means if it is allowed to come in? And so we're going to have to see how this plays out, because there's going to be lots of, I think, appellate decisions coming out throughout the United States over the next decade or so on this. On this issue.
- [09:51]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah, you're right, Phil. I mean, it is definitely a hot issue. We let it happen in Georgia, they let it happen in Florida. There's a lot of states that let it happen. But we have seen this legislation. We actually tried to push something through like this in Georgia, because the question really is, should the jury even be hearing this? You know, should they even be hearing this or not? Or is their First Amendment right? So it is kind of a hot button issue in the criminal world, in the legal world, and, you know, even in the legislative world. So we'll definitely be talking more about that.
- [10:17]
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- [11:17]
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- [12:24]
Ashley Merchant
We also have some updates though, on the Reiner son. And this is just, it's just tragic. I mean, it's just, it's always just tragic. And so just to kind of catch everyone up, you know where we are, we've got no updates on what's going on in court. And I'm guessing that's because there's some significant mental illness things happening. But I think it's interesting to note that David is actually in the same jail where Nick Reiner is being held out in la. So they're in the same exact jail.
- [12:48]
Phil Hawley
Well, wait a minute. The, the options are kind of limited. I mean, you would expect that people charged with serious violent crimes might actually wind up in the same jail. Yeah, to me that seems like just a mere coincidence. It's not like these two inmates are having any interaction with each other. They may not be having any interaction with anybody because that's my understanding that they're both more or less in administrative segregation.
- [13:13]
Ashley Merchant
Oh, I'm sure they're not having anything to do with anybody. It kind of just shows how much is going on in that jurisdiction, that same prosecutor's office, you know, that courthouse. And so they've got a lot of celebrity, but it's not surprising. I mean, you know, it's la. There's going to be a lot of that stuff happening. But apparently the Reiner son has sort of broken his silence and he went on sub stack and made a statement about what's happening with him and with his family and his sister once they lost their father. So just to kind of catch everyone up, you know, Nick is obviously in jail. He is waiting. He is facing two counts of first degree murder with special circumstances. And the DA has not announced whether or not they're gonna seek the death penalty. So that's something that will remain to be seen. But it's obviously death eligible, just like dav David's is death eligible. So those are two things we're waiting to see. But he published something and we've actually got, we've got a SOT one where Nick is actually talking with his dad about addiction and about their relationship in general.
- [14:09]
Mark Eiglarsch
From what I've read, it's a very personal story, correct?
- [14:13]
Nick Reiner
Yes, yes. I mean, it's based, loosely based it's not exactly a documentary, but it is loosely based on, you know, things that Nick went through and his relationship to me and his mother. And you can talk a little bit more about it, Nick, if you want.
- [14:28]
Nick Reiner's Interviewer
You do have to realize that there are some good things from your life and whether or not you want to include them. And I wasn't really that shy about including some of the bad stuff I did, because a lot of people do things that are pretty unsavory when they're going through that. But in terms of making it a narrative, of course it's not my life, but it needs to be constructed into a story. But I think I can relate to it, of course, and I hope other people can relate to it.
- [14:55]
Nick Reiner
The fact that we were dealing with, you know, things that Nick had gone through and how I had related to it and how his mother had related to it, it forced us to have to. It forced me to have to see more clearly and understand more deeply what Nick had gone through. And I think it forced him to see things that I had experienced during this process, and it definitely brought us closer together.
- [15:23]
Phil Hawley
Actually, that's from. I think they were doing press for the 2015 film called Being Charlie, and they were doing this press together, and it. You know, it's been a decade ago or more, but it's still very sad to see that now, knowing how their tragic story has apparently played out. You know, the father and son trying to work together, and then, you know, the tragedy unfolding the way it is, it's just really heartbreaking. But speaking of heartbreak, Jake Reiner, who is Rob Reiner's Robin, Michelle's another son, right. He has broken his silence on Substack, and he says, look, it simultaneously breaks my heart and enrages me. That's his words.
- [16:11]
Ashley Merchant
And.
- [16:11]
Phil Hawley
And, you know, I've read this thing, and folks can read it for themselves, and I would encourage them to do so. But he says, learning of the murders from his sister Romy, he says, quote, my world as I knew it had collapsed. I was in a trance. The only thing I could focus on was what I needed to get to my childhood home. I needed to get to my sister. I needed to figure out what the hell just happens. And it barely mentions his brother Nick, only saying that any loss of a parent is devastating, but nothing compares to losing both of them at the same time. And on top of that, having your brother be at the center of it, it's almost too impossible to process. And I can only imagine that it must be impossible to process that I can't.
- [17:02]
Ashley Merchant
I mean, I can't even imagine. I'm sure they're talking with the district attorneys trying to decide what's the best avenue for this case. You know, on top of the tragedy that the family has suff, they now have to make some important decisions as far as what's going to happen to their brother because he is responsible for this and what the ultimate outcome is, because they do get a certain say in that. So I just can't even imagine. But it does sound like we're going to hear from Sister Romy at some point, which, you know, one day I think we'll probably hear in court from them as to what they want to see happen with their brother and how this has impacted them in what we call a victim impact statement.
- [17:34]
Phil Hawley
Yeah, grief can take a long time to process. But speaking of processing, you know, actually we process a lot of the movie. Film and the work product put out by the movie industry here in the Atlanta area. So I want to switch gears and talk to you about this. We got the new sequel to the Superman movie. Right. We've got man of Tomorrow. And, you know, there's some drama playing out because part of it is being filmed at the federal penitentiary in Atlanta. And guess what? The. The inmates, well, some of them aren't having it.
- [18:12]
Ashley Merchant
Right. They're pretty upset. And, you know, our federal pen here in Atlanta has actually gone through quite a bit of changes over the years. It's a huge structure. You should get. Everybody should look it up online and. And see what it looks like, because it is a huge, imposing structure a little bit south of downtown Atlanta. And it's been around for a really long time, but it's gone through some transformations. It used to be sort of a supermax, you know, back before they even had the word supermax. It's actually hosted some very interesting inmates. It was built in 1902, and it has hosted Al Capone and Whitey Bulger, which if you are not interested in Al Capone and Whitey Bulger, then you are missing out on your mafia true crime and you need to catch up. But it did house both of them. It's also housed someone who I didn't even know this is where Ponzi was named after, but apparently the inventor of the Ponzi scheme, Carlo Ponzi.
- [19:00]
Phil Hawley
I did not know that.
- [19:01]
Ashley Merchant
I know. I didn't either. I was like. I learned.
- [19:03]
Phil Hawley
And another dubious thing, that Atlanta is famous for Ponzi schemes. Who knew it?
- [19:09]
Ashley Merchant
I know, right? Right.
- [19:11]
Phil Hawley
So Lex Luthor the character apparently is perhaps behind bars because the Superman says Superman fans were excited to see the production had officially started when James Gunn shared a picture from the set back on April 20, showing a post of a. Of an prison ID badge with Lex Luthor's name on it, revealing that the movie is going to pick up with Lex Luthor still behind bars. And by the way, can I just say, parenthetically, that FCI Atlanta, as it's known, I think is the perfect sort of a backdrop. It's the perfect setting for this because it just looks like a Lex Luthor kind of prison in. My goodness, what's the problem that these inmates say they're having? Why don't they like it?
- [19:58]
Ashley Merchant
Well, you know, it's interesting because it's actually gone through this transformation where it used to house these super dangerous folks, and now it's sort of a transitional center. And so it is lower level offenses. But they're mad because they're not. Is that they're not getting really their commissary. That's the big issue. They're not getting their downtime. They're not getting to get outside of their cells, but they're also not getting commissary, which anyone who has dealt with people who are behind bars know that getting the honey buns and getting all of the commissary items is a big, big issue. But, Phil, what they are getting is they're getting apparently much better food because the food is actually being prepared in their dorm units instead of having to go to where it's cold in the cafeteria. So, you know, kind of sounds like a toss up. But one thing I got got to mention a quote, which I thought this was great because I didn't know this either. In 2022, Joe, exotic of the Tiger King notoriety, he said that this facility, apparently he was there, his facility was the bottom of hell. He said that the animals at the Atlanta Zoo are living better than the inmates at this prison. And that is from one of the prisons that is supposed to be one of the nicest. Atlanta, supposed to be a nicer one. So I thought that was kind of interesting that he says that the bottom of hell.
- [21:05]
Phil Hawley
All right, so Tiger King triggers me, Ashley, because it reminds me of what we all were stuck at home doing during the COVID pandemic. Something I've tried very hard to move on from. So thank you for refreshing my memory on that. But look, you know, I think this is much ado about nothing. I'm going to talk more at the end of the program. When we do our closings about inmate life, let's just, let's just leave it there and I'll, I'll get to it in my, in my closing. But you know, I think this is much ado about nothing, but we'll leave it there. And coming up next, we're going to be joined by attorney Bruce Rivers to discuss additional updates on the David case, including whether or not his potentially incriminating music videos and lyrics could affect the looming trial and the latest developments in the Julio Foolio murder trial out of Florida. Stay tuned.
- [22:03]
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- [22:47]
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- [24:36]
Ashley Merchant
Welcome back to the MK True Crime Show. Joining us now is criminal defense attorney Bruce River. Welcome to the show, Bruce. It's so good to have you.
- [24:43]
Bruce Rivers
Thanks for having me.
- [24:45]
Ashley Merchant
Yes. So knowing everything that we know about Celeste's autopsy results and also the child porn that was found on David's phone, how do you think his defense is going to proceed at this point?
- [24:56]
Bruce Rivers
Well, they're going to cast a check and then leave town. I think that's what's going to happen. He got a $3 million bonus or signing, you know, advance. And I think that's why Blair Burke is involved right now. She won't be the lawyer at the end of this case.
- [25:11]
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- [25:12]
Ashley Merchant
I saw that. I saw some comments on that. So she's a formidable opponent. But you think she's just there for the, the check and the headlights and, or headlines and then once that's done, moving on.
- [25:21]
Bruce Rivers
Well, at the prelim, or not the prelim, but the initial appearance, she made a lot of bluster. Then it came down to the prelim and then they continued that. So I think once once this starts unfolding and they see what a lost cause is going to be for him, I mean, even if he walks on the murder, he still has just a mountain of child porn that's going to be devices and he's looking at, you know, probably at least a 15 year mandatory minimum, if not more.
- [25:49]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I mean, and we talked about that last week. Just the mountain of evidence, especially every single image. I mean, you can get time for every single image. And, you know, they don't even have to at this point. I mean, if they just want him to go to prison for the rest of his life, they don't even have to prosecute the murder. I think they will. You know, I think her family and Celeste wants that and deserves that, but they don't even have to. I mean, he could literally spend the rest of his life in prison. So it's definitely looking pretty glim.
- [26:14]
Phil Hawley
You know, Bruce, we were talking in the first segment of the show about at least a little bit of overlap between this case and the Nick Reiner case, the fact that they're in the same jail right now. But are you suggesting, it sounds like maybe you are suggesting that these two may wind up in A in the same boat in terms of their counsel. Because if the money and the notoriety goes away, is it possible that we see David, also with a public defender and not a retained counsel.
- [26:48]
Bruce Rivers
Here's what's going to happen. You've got 40 terabytes of information they have to get through. Right. And I guarantee you this is not a flat fee type case. It's going to be a fee for service, in other words, an hourly retainer and they're going to put several people on it. We're doing this, we're doing that, we're filing motions. And I've seen this over and over again with high priced lawyers. I'm a high priced lawyer. But you sign up for the case, you're on the case till the end. That's the way I work. But, and so what's going to happen is I think they're going to eat up that fee and once it's done, you know, I'm sorry, there's, we're out of money and you know, I'm, you know, we're going to have to withdraw, you know, and, and any decent judge would say that's your bad business deal, we're going to keep you on the case and you can't withdraw it if you want to.
- [27:33]
Phil Hawley
Well, some judges, you know, would say in for a penny, in for the pound. And some, usually in criminal cases, as you pointed out, it's sort of a flat fee, I think. But the, the argument for the exception to the flat fee arrangement is cases that are so labor and time intensive like this one that you really can't like you kind of know how much time and effort you're going to have and let's just say a theft case right before it's over. You have no idea what this is until you get into it and suddenly you're like, oh my God, did I, maybe I just did make a bad business deal here.
- [28:08]
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- [28:08]
Ashley Merchant
How could they know there was that much csam, for example?
- [28:11]
Bruce Rivers
Well, one of the things that, well, I mean, is that child porn even coming into evidence or will it be a different case?
- [28:17]
Phil Hawley
It could be a different case.
- [28:19]
Bruce Rivers
It could be a completely different case. But one of the things that I said on my reaction to this case was that they're starting out in a hole. I don't care how bright your lawyer is, I don't care how beautiful your lawyer is. I don't care how expensive your lawyer is. They ain't going to change the facts. They're going to change the fact that this young, beautiful girl was dismembered, that she was. That it was a homicide, that she was put in a bag, that she was putting a bag in a trunk, that she was putting a bag in a truck, in his car, that his car was moved at some point, you know, that you can't change the facts of the case.
- [28:55]
Phil Hawley
We got some video here that we can play while we talk about it. This is from the. The romantic homicide music video. And, you know, I can't believe this. The woman who plays his love interest here resembles Celeste. Her name's Cassidy Clark. She resembles Celeste very well in many different ways. She just looks so much like her. And in the lyrics here, you know, in the back of my mind you died and I didn't even cry, no, not a single tear. In the back of my mind I killed you and I didn't even regret it. I hate you, you know. And so they're saying that it's too early to say whether the prosecutor is going to try to incorporate any of these lyrics into the case. And there may be some legal reasons why it might not be appropriate to do that. But certainly here on this program, we're not limited to the rules of evidence and things that are maybe more prejudicial than probative. We can talk about them here. And I can just tell you, this stuff, it's really creepy. And it looks, looks, looks like, you know, this is related to the charges against him.
- [30:03]
Bruce Rivers
Now if you look at what he did at his concert, like just moments after this supposedly happened, he's. He's in tears and he's saying, I loved you too much, you know, all this crap. And he's absolutely in tears. You know, one of our very first videos that we did was a reaction to Murder in My Mind by Wayne W. Melly. And there he talks about killing his buddies. And I, I just. We call it self snitching, you know, when people do this kind of stuff. And I was in a RICO trial last May a year ago, and the judge let these videos in, so excuse me, but I. I think more and more this stuff is coming into evidence and there's not much you can do about it.
- [30:50]
Phil Hawley
Well, in California, they, they have a pretty high bar. And I think you got to really show, you know, that there's a more succinct and direct connection and that it's not really on the speculative side. Right. That seems to me that if it's open to, you know, multiple ways of being interpreted, maybe it shouldn't come in.
- [31:10]
Bruce Rivers
Well, in this instance, the song happened before it. So it really would be more like propensity evidence under 4.4b. And I think it would be probably excluded properly in California. And I didn't, Didn't Gavin Newsom sign something into law or something like that regarding using these videos? And, and I think you're right. There's got to be a more direct connection.
- [31:31]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah, I think they may not actually meet it in this case because they do have a much higher burden. They're allowed to use it in California, but they have to prove certain things. And I think what you pointed out, Bruce, is exactly right. It happened before, but it's creepy how much the girl in this video looks like Celeste. And she. We heard from her that over the weekend. She's apparently upset about this. She does not like to be associated with this. She says she made it clear on her tick tock that she does not associate with the singer anymore and that she wants justice for Celeste. I think we've got that. And her name is Cassidy Clark. We've got that at SOT3.
- [32:04]
Cassidy Clark
But that's besides the point. The reason why I'm making this video is because I've gotten quite a few messages of people asking me if I have anything to do with this, if I know what's going on. And I just wanted to put an end to it. I do not associate with David by any means. I'm an actor. I, I literally have nothing to do with him. I did it for a job. I did it for a check. I didn't know who David was. I don't follow him on Instagram anymore. I'm gonna remove him as a follower. And I think that he deserves even more than what's happening to him right now. He's a monster. And I do not associate with him by any means. I'm not making this video to make this about me. I'm making this video to put an end to my association with David. Like I said, I've been getting countless amount of messages, comments, stuff like that. I know this video is going to get the same thing, but at least I'm saying I don't associate with David and all justice to Celeste Reebos and her family.
- [33:02]
Ashley Merchant
She's pretty clear. Yeah, she's pretty clear. Well, I want to move on and talk about the Julio Foolio trial. And I think we should all have to say that five times before we go any further. Julio Fulio. Julio, try it. It's kind of fun. I know, right? So just to kind of catch everyone up. So Julio Foolio, he is a Gentleman whose legal name, government name, as it's called, is Charles Jones. He was an up and coming rapper before he was shot and killed in Tampa, Florida in June of 2025. He was getting ready to celebrate his 26th birthday. So the police say that there was a group of five people that followed him to Tampa from Jacksonville. So the parties apparently began in Jacksonville and there were some gang, ongoing gang rivalries. Parties moved to Tampa and they began shooting. Jones was killed. Some other people were injured. The prosecutors have alleged a couple different people were the gunmen. Well, they alleged three of them and then they alleged the other people were sort of assistance. And I, you know, I did kind of a summary of it because I was like, what is this theory really? So they're really saying that there wasn't a single shooter. They're saying this was a group plan. The state's theory is that they tracked him and they worked together to find him. Alicia Andrews, who's already been convicted, she was basically the eyes, you know, acting as the eyes. And then there are four other gentlemen who traveled together and they were apparently part of the plan that led to the ambush. What I think is really interesting, I want to talk to you about, Bruce, is that in this case, the prosecution doesn't actually have to prove who fired the fatal shot. And I know a lot of people just that blows their mind, at least my clients, when I tell them that you didn't actually have to shoot the, you know, the fatal shot to be charged with murder. The state can rely on this conspiracy theory of liability, meaning that if you knowingly participate in the plan, you're responsible for the outcome, even if you didn't pull the trigger as long as you participated. So what this case is really coming down to is whether or not they were all out participants in this coordinated plan or whether or not was just loosely connected. I mean, I kind of get that, right?
- [35:00]
Bruce Rivers
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. What's interesting about Alicia Andrews is she was acquitted of murder one.
- [35:07]
Ashley Merchant
Right.
- [35:07]
Bruce Rivers
And. And found guilty of manslaughter. How is that possible?
- [35:10]
Phil Hawley
I don't know. I was going to ask you the same. It makes no sense legally. Right. It's just.
- [35:14]
Ashley Merchant
Legally, it doesn't. That's. That's like what we call splitting the baby, you know, the jury. I mean, it's a compromise verdict, I think.
- [35:21]
Bruce Rivers
But if you look at the bigger picture, what's happening here in Jacksonville, and I don't know that stats are now, but a couple years ago at the time, there was 50 unsolved homicides between these two groups Spina Benz, Young and Ace and Julio Fulio. And they would do these songs like Spinner Benz did a song called who I Smoke. And I reacted to that. And that's all about their ops and killing their ops. And I didn't realize it at the time. My son was, you know, in charge of my channel and he was. He was into this drill music, right? And then. And then Julio did it, did another one called When I see you and it's all talking about your ops. He was shot one time before in the foot. So this was the second attempt in his life.
- [36:03]
Phil Hawley
Well, it was all.
- [36:04]
Mark Eiglarsch
It was.
- [36:05]
Phil Hawley
It was on video and it was played at her trial. And you know, and we can show that to the folks who are watching on. On YouTube. And by the way, if you're listening on podcast or Sirius xm, I encourage you to subscribe to the channel here on YouTube so you can see what we're talking about. But this video is really, really crazy of this, you know, this shootout. And it's like, how do you get to manslaughter from that? Because manslaughter is things where, you know, you're acting under sudden provocation. Like the classic example, you know, you walk in and you catch your. Your spouse sort of involved with another person and you just can't really control yourself. That's kind of manslaughter. But, you know, you're stalking folks, okay, the conspiracy. The group of the co conspirators allegedly is stalking the victims all the way from Jacksonville to Tampa. And then you see this video and you're like, how can you say that this is anything other than malicious or intentional murder?
- [37:08]
Bruce Rivers
Assassination is murder one, plain and simple. And one of the things that they are doing in this case is there's a lot of electronic information, a lot of cell phone data. And I'm telling you, everybody has a digital footprint, right, that we didn't have maybe 30 years ago. But it's digital footprint, it's text messages, it's cell towers. You know, where were you when that kind of thing? And when you watch that video, it just looks like a hit squad in action. And then you've got the Davion Mur Fee, one of the co defendants. Have you seen the video with him? He's in his cell and he's going, you know, basically acting. Acting out the shooting. Yeah, basically taking ownership.
- [37:53]
Phil Hawley
Well, what we do have some video. And I thought this is site 5. This is the Andrews who was convicted, was aware of her boyfriend's gang affiliation. Check out Site five.
- [38:06]
Witness
You said you have known her for over a decade. What, how would you describe the nature of your relationship?
- [38:13]
AARP Advertiser
She's one of my bestest friends.
- [38:15]
Witness
Did I, Alicia Andrews ever mentioned to you that Isaiah Chance was in a gang?
- [38:23]
AARP Advertiser
She mentioned that there were rumors that he was in a game and she
- [38:27]
Witness
specifically told you that she was aware that he was in a gang, Is that correct?
- [38:32]
AARP Advertiser
She was aware that he was tied in or if it's affiliated with an. Again, guess.
- [38:38]
Phil Hawley
And it gets worse, it gets worse. Site 6 is Andrews texted witness best friend about Fuglio saying quote, he needed to die.
- [38:50]
Witness
And then the defendant then texts back to you. And this is January 21st of 2021, 8:30 8:39am Girl, I don't like Coolio LMFAO. Ugly ass bitch. He need to die.
- [39:08]
Ashley Merchant
Her sentencing has been delayed. I think it is interesting that she did not get first degree murder, but her sentencing was delayed. And I thought this was really interesting for those that watched it. So apparently the defense made a motion after the trial for the judge, Judge Sisco, to not preside over sentencing and they alleged that she was biased. So apparently that motion was successful. So a different judge is going to be silencing her and we don't know when that's going to be. But the trial so far, the other people, the three accused gunmen, the three gentlemen, Gathrite Murphy and another Murphy, are all on trial along with Isaiah Chance. Their trial is ongoing right now and the state doesn't. Again, they don't have to prove who's the gunman, they just have to prove that they were all linked. And one of the ways they're doing this is with this immense gang evidence. I was listening to the case earlier today and it's like one cop after another testifying about all this gang affiliation, documented gang. And it sounds like, I mean it sounds like from you, Bruce, that, that there's quite a bit of history in these two towns with this gang rivalry.
- [40:05]
Bruce Rivers
There's an incredible, it's they kill one of ours, we'll keep one of theirs. I mean it's going on and on and on. And like I said, there's 50 plus now probably it's grown unsolved homicides between these two groups over like 20 years. And, and it's just, you know, and I preach on my channel to these young guys who are, who are in the gangs and they don't have anybody else, you know, they don't have family and the gang is their family. But these, this drill, it just goes back and forth back and forth. And so this is just an extension of that and just happened to be all caught on camera. And, you know, these guys are trading their lives for the life.
- [40:45]
Ashley Merchant
Yeah. What always bothers me about these though, this conspiracy and this, this gang case, you know, the conspiracy liability is what if one of them wasn't in the gang? I mean, I know that they're, they're saying they were all lumped in the gang, but what if one of them wasn't and he actually didn' want to participate in this? I mean, anytime the government throws up these gang charges, it's kind of guilt by association. I mean, if you think about it, there's four people sitting there. Does anybody know who's who? No. Does anybody care? No. It's a group mentality. And so they just get sort of swept up. And it's very powerful evidence in front of a jury for the state to be able to present. Very powerful. And in this case we've got clips because guess what? They were so smart and they did some videos. I think we've got slot seven where the prosecution played this clip. Shocking about a gang video that was made about the actual murder. So not only are we gonna, you know, do this, but then we're gonna make a video about it. So if we could play thought that. Charles Jones was son celebrating his 26th birthday when this all happened.
- [42:02]
Prosecutor
Couldn't be any clearer about who they're talking about. You even saw footage from the area where the murder occurred. Foolio dead for real. His ass a ghost.
- [42:15]
Ashley Merchant
I sort of feel like this, this is one of those cases called shooting fish in a barrel. I mean, as a defense lawyer, if you get that video, it's almost like shooting fish in a barrel. I mean, I know that's a bad metaphor for people on trial, but with a video like that, what are you gonna do?
- [42:29]
Bruce Rivers
Well, you see they were smoking in the video, right? Yeah, that's, that is, that is a cultural thing in these gangs to smoke on your dead ops. And, and that's what they're doing. And it's a very, it's a sign of disrespect. You know, that video isn't made for them to make money. That video is, is a dis to their, to the opposing gang. And that, and that's exactly what it is. And it's so dumb because you know, they're self snitching.
- [42:56]
Ashley Merchant
You know they are and they are self snitching. Yeah.
- [43:00]
Phil Hawley
Well, we got another, another video. We got side 8, which is the rap video with the lyric, 4 in the car, 1 dead, 3 hit, which precisely matches the numbers associated with this CR. You.
- [43:26]
Prosecutor
So you hear him mentioning Mr. Six. That is Charles Jones, the Don Julio. You keep seeing the tequila again, that is a dis against Charles Jones, whose rap name was Julio Fulio. Five in the morning. You will find in the evidence in this case that this crime occurred around 4:40am he says four in the car, one dead, three hit. Mr. Jones was murdered. And three other individuals. You will find in the evidence. You heard the attempted murder counts against three of these defendants. Three others were hit with gunfire but survived.
- [44:12]
Phil Hawley
Yeah, those, they didn't want to cooperate. They had to follow a trail of blood to find those additional victims. I mean, you know, this is one of the most bizarre trials we've seen, but it's typical.
- [44:28]
Bruce Rivers
I just tried a. Well, like I told you, the RICO gang case here in Minneapolis where they took 45 guys from one side off the street, and then you're gonna take, you know, the same amount off the other. I mean, like 90 guys, you know, off the street.
- [44:41]
Phil Hawley
And.
- [44:41]
Bruce Rivers
And. But this is what they do.
- [44:43]
Phil Hawley
And then.
- [44:43]
Bruce Rivers
And then they put it all online. You know, I try to. I try to curb everybody to say, stop yourself. Stitch.
- [44:51]
Ashley Merchant
That's a great hat. That's awesome. I need one of those. Well, thank you so much, Bruce. I'm sorry our time is up, but where can our listeners find you?
- [44:59]
Bruce Rivers
Just go to clr bruce rivers.com or just google Bruce Rivers. And you know, I'm on YouTube like crazy and we're just trying to spread the word.
- [45:09]
Ashley Merchant
That's awesome. We love it. Well, thank you so much for being here. And up next, we've got some exciting new shows. Joining the mk, True Crime Family and our closing argument. Stay tuned.
- [45:18]
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- [46:02]
Ashley Merchant
Here's a question. How many brokers does it take to ensure your business? If you're like most business owners, the answer is too many. Multiple policies, multiple applications, and no clear view of how it all fits together. And when questions come up, it's not easy to get the clarity you need. Super sure changes that one broker for all your business insurance, backed by a team that works with you year round, not just at renewal. And if you've ever stared at a policy wondering what it actually covers, super sure has a fine print fax tool that translates the legal jargon into plain English so you know what's covered and what's not. Right now you can go to supershore.com and get a full report on your current policies with no obligation. Find out if you're overinsured, underinsured or somewhere in between. Go to supersure.com, one super agency, one powerful platform. All of your policies in one place. Go to supersure.com Megan that's supersure.com Megan Paid for by Supersure Insurance Agency, LLC, a licensed insurance agency. Welcome back to MK True Crime Show. Before we get to our closing arguments, we want to let our listeners know our friends and true crime contributors Mark Eiglarsch and Jonna Spielberg are starting their own show, Positively Legal this Wednesday. Take a look at what you're in for here.
- [47:26]
Mark Eiglarsch
Hi, everyone, I'm Mark Eiglarch and this is Jonna Spilbore.
- [47:31]
Jonna Spielberg
And we are Positively legal.
- [47:34]
Mark Eiglarsch
Are we? All the time. You're so positive, Johnna, Ms. New Yorker, I don't know that you're so positive.
- [47:39]
Jonna Spielberg
Not all the time. But I'm going with this, Mark, because
- [47:42]
Ashley Merchant
you did come up with the name, right?
- [47:44]
Mark Eiglarsch
Because what's the point if we're going to be talking about these high profile cases and then people are going to leave feeling miserable like a lot of people do because it's murder, guts, rape. Let's at least throw in some spiritual nuggets so people can feel a little bit better about themselves. What do you think?
- [47:59]
Jonna Spielberg
Well, I think some people actually like murder. We've been part of Megan's posse since the days of Kelly.
- [48:06]
Ashley Merchant
Sport.
- [48:06]
Nick Reiner's Interviewer
Back on Fox News, Megyn Kelly is touching me.
- [48:09]
Ashley Merchant
This is wonderful.
- [48:10]
Jonna Spielberg
Poor victim was naked in the shower, stabbed 27 times. That wasn't good enough. Let's put two bullet holes in his face.
- [48:17]
Mark Eiglarsch
And I've been with Megan so long because I enjoy wearing makeup. Why is this going to be fun? What are we going to do?
- [48:22]
Jonna Spielberg
We're going to bring our real life courtroom experience to our audience.
- [48:26]
Mark Eiglarsch
Of course, the most challenging clients we've ever had. Right. What just happened in court, that was difficult. We're going to give it up.
- [48:33]
Jonna Spielberg
We might change some names to protect the innocent. You can tune in to Positively Legal every Wednesday on the MK True Crime YouTube channel. And like and subscribe. Subscribe so you can stay in the legal loop with us.
- [48:45]
Mark Eiglarsch
And as Aristotle said, take charge of your thoughts. You can do what you will with them.
- [48:50]
Jonna Spielberg
And as Mona Lisa Vito said, it's called disclosure. You.
- [48:58]
Phil Hawley
Well, I'm very much looking forward to that particular show, Ashley, but, you know, those two are having so much fun. And honestly, I'm. I really love the graphics package with that, so I'm looking forward to that. But look, also starting this week on the MK True Crime channel is in the well, a new show with Mark Garagos and Matt Murphy. So make sure you're subscribed to our YouTube channel, all of the podcast platforms, and follow us on social media. Listen on Sirius XM Radio, and stay up to date with all of our new. And now it's time for our closing arguments. Ashley, I will let you go first. Go ahead and tell us what's on your mind today.
- [49:45]
Ashley Merchant
All right. Well, thanks, Phil. So this morning I was on the treadmill and I was thinking about what's my rant going to be? My closing argument. And I love thinking about stuff like that because it sort of fires me up to get me to run a little bit faster. But I was listening to the Julio Foolio trial, which, you know, I like to say, and I had so many immediate thoughts. And then I got a text from a good friend of mine who said, hey, guess what? I'm on jury duty again for like, the third time in five years. And I said, why do I never get on jury duty? I never get summoned. So I thought, I want to do a series titled what would Ashley do if she was on this jury? Because I want to be a juror really bad. So then I was listening to the Julio Fulio trial, and I, you know, again, just love saying that. But all I could think about was, no, no, no, I have to rant about gang experts. I have to rant about gang testing testimony. So here we go. I'm going to pick up the other idea later, but right now I want to talk a little bit about gang experts and this gang testimony. Because what we heard today, for example, was witness after witness about I'm a gang expert. This is the gang stuff. And it's true. We just heard from Bruce, the gangs exist. Yes, they exist. But are these gang experts legit? I mean, is it junk science? Where does it really come from? So I thought I would use an example from my past, a war story, so to say. So if you listen to any criminal defense trial, really, with multiple co defendants over the last decade or so, you probably heard from somebody called a gang expert. They were probably a cop who's working the beat who happens to be picking up gang cases, and all of a sudden they've become gang experts. You heard it today. What are they saying? They're saying these people are documented gang experts. That's what you're documented. Okay. Sounds very official. Documented. So what does that really mean? Well, I've got two stories I want to share. I'm going to share one today, I'm going to share one on Wednesday. But the first one. First one. So you definitely have to stick around for the second one, because the second one's just as good as the first. But the first story is one where I had a client who actually had just gotten released from prison. I know, I know. Bad facts. Just got released from prison, gets rearrested. Is my client bad facts? I mean, we do enjoy repeat business, but not really a good idea. But I knew. I knew he was not a gang banger. I knew he wasn't. I knew it. And so I started working on the case, and he got a gang charge. And one of the things I'll explain later on is basically, if you are associated with a gang, you're going to get this add on, this gang charge. It's always added on. The government loves to do it because it adds extra time, and it gives them a little bit more leeway, a little bit more leverage. So I call the cop because I know this guy's not a gang member. And I say, why do you have him listed as a gang member? Like, where did that come from?
- [52:14]
Bruce Rivers
What.
- [52:15]
Ashley Merchant
How did you document that he was a gang member? And he said, oh, well, it was documented in prison. And I said, documented in prison? He said, yeah, there was an incident. And, you know, the prison actually keeps. The Department of Corrections in Georgia, which is such a great institution, keeps a database, and they document people who are in gangs, and it shows up in their database, and I can search it. I said, oh, great, cool. Tell me more about this. How do I get access to this database? How can I verify that this is good information?
- [52:42]
AARP Advertiser
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- [52:43]
Ashley Merchant
You know, he said, no, you can't. You can't. I said, well, how do you know if it's true? Well, you can't see it, but the prison said it's there, so I'm sure it's true. Why can't I see it? Because it's a state secret. Okay? So anything that's really a prison record for the government is the state secret. Okay. So I guess it's super top secret. So I say, oh, I'm going to have to subpoena it. So I asked my client, I say, you know, what really happened? He was a victim. He was a victim of gang violence. And I find this out, and I say, well, they're not going to tell me this. He's not a member of a gang. So what do I have to do? So I get his file. So I get his file, and I find the report that lists him as a victim of a gang initiation. So he is the victim. And his actual file says he has to be held separate from this gang because they assaulted him, because there is a record and it was a bad assault. I don't need to go into the details, but it was not a good situation. So his document, if you actually look at the record, which this cop had never looked at, documented he was a gang member because he had been a victim of a gang initiation. That was it. So that is how he ends up as a documented gang member. I go, I cross examine the cop on this. He has no idea that I've got this record. He goes on and on and testifies about how my client's documented gang member. He spends an hour talking about all this gang knowledge, how super smart he is about gangs, gangs. I know everything about gangs, blah, blah, blah, blah. I get up, I show him the report, and he turns green. So don't always believe when someone says someone is documented.
- [54:15]
Phil Hawley
All right, great stuff, Ashley. Thanks. I can't wait to hear the next story that you have. And I too, today was thinking about what I wanted to say. And sometimes I changed my mind as we do our show preps. And I decided I would try to keep it topical because earlier in this program, we were talking about the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary, where the inmates are upset because the new Superman movie is being filmed, at least in part. And so I wanted to talk broader on the broader sense about, you know, what rights prison inmates may actually have. So let's talk about those. And here's the spoiler alert, folks. Prison is not a luxury resort with room service. But. But inmates are not completely stripped of everything either. So here's the good stuff they still get. They have the right, of course, to be safe from cruel and unusual punishment. That's the eighth amendment. This means things like basic medical care, basic mental health support when they need it, at least in theory, that is. No one is supposed to be left entirely in the dust. But jails and prisons are notoriously deficient when it comes to mental health treatment. Of course, inmates can still practice their religion for the most part, as long as it doesn't cause a riot out in the yard or involve the use of drugs or alcohol. Inmates are allowed to challenge their case in court. They have the access to their lawyers and the prison legal library and things of that nature. And oh yeah, they can still get some mail and family visits, even if it's closely monitored, as if it was a reality TV show. But let's be real about what they do not have. They do not have privacy. Forget about it. And so there's no right to privacy when they're filming Superman down the hallway or the passageway from you. Right? The guards can search their cells anytime they want. They don't need a warrant. Just surprise, surprise, we're here. Let's toss this room and see what you might be hiding. And in most states, they. They can't vote, by the way, while an inmate is locked up, then you have freedom of speech, and that's pretty limited. There's almost none. Their calls, their letters and their visits can be monitored and they can even be censored if things get too shady. And obviously they can't just decide to walk out and leave for a burger, pick their roommates, or live like a normal person on the outside. The doors do in fact, stay locked. It's a balance between keeping society safe and still treating people with basic dignity and respect. Pretty interesting stuff, right? Well, if you are a true crime geek like I am, or a student of criminal justice, it's interesting. And remember folks, let's make sure we all stay on the right side of those bars. I want to say thank you today to our guests, Bruce Rivers and to my co host Ashley Merchant. And thank you all and we'll see you back here next time on the MK True Crime Show. Have a great week.
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Bruce Rivers
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