Modern Love: “The Woman Who Can Make Affairs Disappear”
Podcast by The New York Times | Host: Anna Martin | Guest: Elizabeth Lo | Date: October 22, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode explores the unique Chinese phenomenon of “Mistress Dispellers”—specialists hired by families to quietly and compassionately break up extramarital affairs. Host Anna Martin interviews filmmaker Elizabeth Lo, whose new documentary Mistress Dispeller follows a renowned practitioner, Teacher Wang. Together, they peel back the layers of emotional manipulation, cultural context, and profound personal impact behind this clandestine service, questioning who truly suffers most in triangles of infidelity and reflecting on how such work shapes one’s own beliefs about love and self-worth.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. What is a Mistress Dispeller? (03:06 – 05:02)
- Definition: A professional (typically a woman) hired to end extramarital affairs—without direct confrontation—by befriending and subtly influencing the involved parties.
- Process: The dispeller assumes a neutral identity (e.g., a friend wanting to learn a hobby), gains trust, infiltrates the family dynamic, and gently persuades the unfaithful partner and their lover to end the affair, all while making it feel like their own decision.
- Cultural Roots: In China, discussing marital problems openly is deeply stigmatized; discretion and “preserving dignity” are paramount.
“A mistress dispeller is a fixer, slash therapist, slash family counselor, slash private eye.” — Elizabeth Lo (04:45)
2. Inside the Process: Teacher Wang’s Methods (05:02 – 08:28)
- Case Study—The Lee Family: Mrs. Lee hires Teacher Wang after discovering her husband’s affair.
- Earning Trust: Wang becomes “a friend wanting to learn badminton”—the husband’s passion—and uses her feigned ineptitude and endearing demeanor to ingratiate herself.
- Complex Social Engineering: She then leverages these new bonds to meet the mistress, Fei Fei, under the pretense of wanting business advice.
“She’s laying almost this trap that he’s inevitably gonna fall into, in which he will then feel compelled to confess: I don’t want to divorce my wife, but I just also can’t bring myself to give up this young woman that I’ve become entangled with.” — Elizabeth Lo (07:55)
3. Manipulating Dynamics: Gaining the Mistress's Confidence (10:01 – 13:13)
- Orchestrating Encounters: Through carefully staged situations (like a badminton game where the husband has to leave, leaving Fei Fei and Wang alone), Wang sows seeds of doubt in the mistress about the affair’s value.
- Empathy Meets Strategy: Wang expresses deep compassion, but also deploys emotional tactics that can be psychologically ruthless, always keeping larger goals in mind.
“She helps her realize her ultimate priorities. That she wants to be a part of a love that’s complete, not in the shadows.” — Elizabeth Lo (32:54)
4. Teacher Wang’s Philosophy: Who Suffers Most? (13:13 – 16:56)
- Counterintuitive View: Wang believes that mistresses, not wives, suffer most in affairs because “they don't love themselves enough to demand a complete relationship.”
- Empowerment as Resolution: Wang aims to help all parties recognize their own worth and choose what’s truly best for themselves.
“Betrayal by another human being…is as profound as being betrayed by yourself, which is in the mistress’s case. But…when you yourself betray yourself, that is far worse than if another human being betrays you.” — Elizabeth Lo (14:49)
5. An Ethic of Discretion—and Its Limits (16:56 – 19:20)
- No Retribution, But No Accountability: The approach avoids open confrontation and public shaming but also means no one is forced to accept responsibility for their actions.
- Hidden Emotional Labor: The emotional burden is often shouldered by women—wives, mistresses, and the dispenser herself.
“The huge blind spot…is that there is no accountability. Everything is swept under the rug. And all the emotional labor is taken on by the women.” — Elizabeth Lo (18:44)
6. Personal Impact: Elizabeth Lo’s Own Heartbreak (19:33 – 32:54)
- Life Imitating Art: As Lo documents affairs professionally, her own relationship unravels—partly, she feels, due to Wang’s fatalistic analysis of her romance.
- Wang’s Unsettling Prediction: After seeing a photo of Lo and her then-boyfriend, Wang remarks the relationship “is doomed,” asserting that love that starts with uneven adoration will not last if the giving partner stops giving.
“She says, because he didn’t like you at first…in the future, the moment that you stop giving, then he will leave.” — Teacher Wang, recounted by Elizabeth Lo (25:07)
- Seed of Doubt: Wang’s words linger and, after Lo’s breakup, seem eerily prophetic.
- Reflection and Growth: With hindsight, Lo realizes Wang merely observed truths about her emotional immaturity and the incomplete nature of the love she was chasing.
“Wang’s influence is like a quiet and soft drizzle. You barely feel it. You barely hear it, but it’s there.” — Elizabeth Lo (29:18)
- Moving Forward: Lo is now in a happier, more confident relationship, and while Teacher Wang’s voice remains, it serves as a reminder to pursue complete, fulfilling love.
“You are deserving of a complete love that can withstand the pressures of time and life.” — Elizabeth Lo (reflecting on Teacher Wang’s underlying lesson) (33:03)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “That’s her whole M.O.—ending the affair has to be their own idea.” — Anna Martin (05:38)
- “Each of them is somehow where they belong, in the track that they belong.” — Elizabeth Lo (on the outcomes, 17:08)
- “As Wang would say…if the sink stays broken, that's how the sink was meant to be.” — Anna Martin (17:50)
- “All the emotional labor…is taken on by the women in the case.” — Elizabeth Lo (18:44)
- “Wang always 10 steps ahead. Wow.” — Anna Martin (15:49)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 03:06 | What is a Mistress Dispeller?
- 05:02 | Teacher Wang’s Methods & The Lee Case
- 10:01 | Gaining Trust of the Mistress Fei Fei
- 13:13 | Wang’s Philosophy: Who Suffers the Most?
- 16:56 | Ethical Questions & Hidden Labor
- 19:33 | Elizabeth Lo’s Personal Story & Wang’s Influence
- 29:18 | The Lingering Effect of Wang’s Words on Lo
- 32:54 | Lessons on Deserving Complete Love
Episode Tone & Style
The conversation is probing, reflective, and intimate. Anna Martin invites candor and curiosity, while Elizabeth Lo’s responses are thoughtful, vulnerable, and sometimes laced with wry humor and self-doubt. The subject matter is handled with nuance, balancing cultural critique, emotional complexity, and narrative tension.
Conclusion
This episode gives listeners a rare look at an enigmatic figure who quietly reshapes the lives caught in the web of infidelity, reframing both what “healing” and “success” might mean. Through Elizabeth Lo’s lens—and lived experience—we see the far-reaching impact of such unseen, emotional labor, and are invited to reconsider what it means to love—and to leave—completely.