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#1010 - Bernie Sanders - Who Actually Runs the US Government? - Modern Wisdom | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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#1010 - Bernie Sanders - Who Actually Runs the US Government?

Modern Wisdom

Thu Oct 23 2025

Summary

Modern Wisdom Podcast #1010: Bernie Sanders – Who Actually Runs the US Government?

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Chris Williamson
Guest: Senator Bernie Sanders

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Chris Williamson sits down with Senator Bernie Sanders to ask: “Who actually runs the US government?” Sanders puts aside the usual left-right divides to spotlight the rise of oligarchy—power and wealth concentrated in the hands of the few—and explores its impacts on American democracy, economic opportunity, and daily life. The conversation is an incisive critique of income inequality, political influence of billionaires, the failures of both major parties, and urgent questions about how new technologies and population trends shape the country’s future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real Divide: Oligarchy Over Ideology

Sanders’ Focus: Sanders quickly reframes the debate from “left vs. right” to the urgent problem of economic and political oligarchy.
- “In an unprecedented way in American history, we have more income and wealth inequality, more concentration of ownership, more billionaire control over the media and our political system than we’ve ever had…” (00:14)
Stark Realities: 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, struggling with healthcare, housing, food, and education costs.

2. How Did America Become So Unequal?

Historical Perspective (01:17):
- Despite technological progress and increased worker productivity, real wages have stagnated since the 1970s.
- “Real inflation accounted for weekly wages for the average American worker is lower today than it was back then.” (01:19)
- Sanders cites the RAND Corporation: $75 trillion has transferred from the bottom 90% to the top 1% over 50 years.
Costs vs. Earnings:
- Essential needs (healthcare, housing, education, quality food) have become dramatically more expensive, while wages remained static.
- “Now, the flat screen TVs are cheaper… good. But in terms of the needs of the average American family… tens of millions of people should not be struggling to put food on the table or pay the rent while the people on top, the oligarchs, have never had it so good.” (06:48)

3. Consolidation of Power & The Political System

Wall Street & Corporate Power:
- BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard are the primary stockholders in 95% of S&P corporations—a massive centralization of ownership (08:51).
Billionaire Influence in Politics:
- Campaign finance and the Citizens United decision enable billionaires to “buy” politicians: “You could put hundreds of millions of dollars into a super PAC. Elect whoever you want. Defeat whoever you want. Musk spent, I think, $270 million to help elect Donald Trump.” (18:41)
Democracy Diminished:
- “When you have a handful of large corporations owning and controlling what is produced and engaging more or less in price fixing, we got some serious problems.” (08:51)

4. Healthcare & Social Policy

Broken System:
- US healthcare is more expensive and less effective than peer countries: “We live three or four years shorter lives. We have 85 million Americans who are uninsured or underinsured.” (03:57)
Sanders on Policy Solutions:
- Calls for universal healthcare, a living minimum wage, affordable education, and strong public funding of elections.

5. Party Dynamics & Populism

Republican Cohesion & Trump:
- Sanders critiques what he sees as a “cult of personality” in the GOP, with members fearful to dissent from Trump (10:34).
- Memorable analogy: “It reminds me...when Stalin was the leader of the USSR...he used to give a speech and all these guys would stand up and they would applaud, and everyone looked around to see who would be...Oh, you stop first, you know, you’re in trouble.” (13:08)
Democratic Establishment:
- Democrats drifted from working-class advocacy to corporate fundraising—what Sanders calls a “tragic era” (25:18).
- “The Democrats have been strong on those social issues, identity politics, but they have not been strong in standing up for the working class in this country.” (50:56)

6. AI, Robotics, and the Future of Work

Risks of Technological Revolution:
- “If robots are going to do the work...there are people, including Musk...who really think there’s going to be an incredible loss of decent paying jobs as a result of robotics and AI.” (38:18)
- Sanders advocates for reducing the standard workweek and ensuring people—not just corporations—benefit from technological progress (45:17).
Centralization Danger:
- Concerned about handing excessive power to tech billionaires: “We cannot let a handful of multi billionaires make the decisions for us.” (46:04)

7. Birth Rates, Family, and Demographics

Falling Birth Rates:
- Sanders acknowledges the US is facing a demographic challenge: “As the father of four, the grandfather of seven...having kids is a beautiful thing, you know, that makes us human.” (40:22)
- Points to economic reasons—childcare costs, housing, insecurity—as barriers to families (40:51).
Values & Policy:
- “We should create a nation where people want to have kids, enjoy having kids and so forth.” (42:40)

8. Men’s Issues and Social Inequality

Neglect of Men’s Issues:
- Sanders agrees that both political parties, especially the left, have overlooked challenges facing men—declining college attendance, higher suicide rates, family breakdown (60:04).
- “We want women's equality. What about me? Have we paid enough attention to that? I think we have not. And I think we need to do a better job.” (64:58)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On who rules America:
- “When you add all that together, that’s what’s called oligarchy. And that’s the fight that I am engaging in right now.” — Bernie Sanders (00:24)
On wage stagnation:
- “Real inflation accounted for weekly wages for the average American worker is lower today than it was back then.” — Sanders (01:24)
On politicians’ relationship with donors:
- “If you’re a billionaire and you’re gonna give me a whole lot of money...When I get elected, I’m say, hey, thanks. What do you need? I’ll do it for you.” — Sanders (18:41)
On limits to wealth:
- “[Elon Musk] owns more wealth than the bottom 52% of American households...I happen not to believe that anybody should have that much wealth when so many people are struggling.” — Sanders (30:04)
On the state of democracy:
- “I worry about the future of this country and whether or not we will be a democracy. I worry about a president who is a megalomaniac...and who is working at the service of oligarchs who want more and more wealth for themselves. That is precisely what keeps me up at night.” — Sanders (66:09)
On party affiliations:
- “It is not incompatible to say that we believe in women’s rights...but say the same thing. Of course we want our young men to be able to have all of the opportunities that they deserve as well.” — Sanders (61:07)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:14 — Sanders reframes debate from left vs. right to oligarchy and inequality
01:19 — Discussion of wage stagnation and wealth transfer
03:54 — America’s broken healthcare system and international comparisons
08:51 — The power of Wall Street giants and corporate consolidation
13:08 — Analogy of “Stalinist-type” Republican party allegiance to Trump
18:41 — Billionaires dominating campaign finance
21:55 — Sanders lays out public funding as democracy's fix
25:18 — Why Democrats lost the working class
38:18 — Technological progress and threats to good jobs
40:22 — Sanders on family, birth rates, and social values
50:56 — Sanders critiques Democrats’ focus on social issues over working-class needs
60:04 — On neglect of men’s issues and the need for new focus
66:09 — What keeps Sanders up at night; worries about democracy’s future
67:44 — Grassroots vs. top-down movements and faith in American people

Conclusion

This episode delivers a sweeping yet personal diagnosis of economic, political, and social maladies facing America. Sanders is consistent in his call for systemic reforms—universal healthcare, campaign finance overhaul, support for families and workers, and re-balancing of technological advances. There is a sense of urgency in his warnings about oligarchy and democratic decline—tempered by cautious optimism in the power of grassroots activism. Whether you agree with Sanders’ perspective or not, the issues and statistics he raises demand further attention for anyone interested in the future of American democracy and society.

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Transcript

Chris Williamson (0:00)

I read something recently that I wanted to get your thoughts on. The left's greatest enemy is not the right, but the hard left. The right's greatest enemy is not the left, but the hard right. The lunatics of your own side make you look much sillier than the opposition ever could.

Bernie Sanders (0:14)

All right, maybe. But what I am most interested in right now is not left or right. What I am focusing on right now is that in an unprecedented way in American history, we have more income and wealth inequality, more concentration of ownership, more billionaire control over the media and our political system than we've ever had in the history of the United States. And you add all that together, that's what's called oligarchy. And that's the fight that I am engaging in right now. We should not be living in a nation where so few have so much wealth and power, while at the same time, Chris, you got in the richest country on earth. 60% of our people got it. 60% are living paycheck to paycheck. They're struggling to pay for healthcare, for childcare, for education. Housing is off the charts. Very few young people can afford to buy their own homes. And parents having a hard time even affording to buy decent quality food for their kids. That's the reality I'm focusing on right now.

Chris Williamson (1:17)

What's the story of how we got here?

Bernie Sanders (1:19)

Good question. Here's a. Let me throw out a statistic and we go from there. In the last 52 years. You got it. Go back to 1973, you'd have been 31. All right, I would have been right. There has been an explosion in technology. Correct? Explosion in worker productivity. So how was the average worker doing with all of that increase in worker productivity and technology? They're doing really much better now than they did back in the early 70s. In fact, real inflation accounted for weekly wages for the average American worker is lower today than it was back then. That's an extraordinary statistic. And at the same time, according to the RAND Corporation, we are seeing a 75 trillion dollar transfer of wealth. Okay, you with me? From the bottom 90% to the top 1%. So what you have seen throughout that period is the very wealthiest people becoming much wealthier. All of the gains of worker productivity, increased worker productivity, et cetera, going to the people on top. And today, tens of millions of working class families are struggling to put food on the table for their kids.

Chris Williamson (2:41)

I wanna show you a chart in a second. So this tracks the price of consumer goods and services over the last 25 years. Broadly speaking. Prices have increased by about 74% since 2000, but the actual numbers vary wildly depending on what type of good or service it is. So consumer goods, toys, TVs have gotten housing.

Bernie Sanders (22:30)

That's a big cake you want me to cut up. I can't cut it into that many slices, but this is what I will tell you. You got a Democratic establishment, all right? Democratic establishment. And these are folks who deserve, in my view, credit for over the last 30, 40, 50 years, pushing this country in some very important directions in terms of women's rights, in terms of the right of women to be able to control their own bodies. That's under attack right now. But many of these folks fought that fight, civil rights, you know, making sure that we do our best to end bigotry in this country, that we don't judge people by the color of their skin or where they were born. And we've made some progress in that area. Gay rights, you know, we have made enormous progress. The idea that, you know, 30, 40 years ago, nobody would have dreamed that we'd have something called gay marriage. Today, Democrats, I think, deserve a lot of credit for that. But back in the 1970s, some geniuses in the Democratic Party said, you know what? Republicans get all this money from the rich and large corporations. Why the hell don't we do the same thing? So they started reaching out to corporate America and the wealthy. And what then began to happen is that when back in the 60s, the 50s, certainly under Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 30s, the Democratic Party was known, you may like them or not, they were known as the party of the working class in this country. You worked in a factory, you were a low wage person, you voted Democrat. And Starting in the 1970s, the Democrats started talking about other issues, important issues, but not the needs of the American working class. They supported trade agreements, nafta, permanent normal trade relations with China, which resulted in the loss of thousands of factories in America, millions of good paying jobs. They did not fight effectively for healthcare, they did not fight effectively for education. Cost of education went up in this country, housing, et cetera, et cetera. And what evolved over that period of time is to where we are today, where actually more working class people are voting for Donald Trump than voting for the Democratic candidate. And in my view, it's not because working class Republicans like Trump's idea of giving a trillion dollars in tax breaks to the 1% or throwing millions of people off of healthcare. It's because they feel the Democratic Party has abandoned them. They don't see an alternative to Trumpism.

Bernie Sanders (37:00)

Yes, it does, because what matters is what the goal, what ends up happening. So the point that I made and you made a fair point that 50 years ago, we're judging today, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I think there are a lot of people today who are very, very uncomfortable with society as it exists. Right. One of the reasons basically is economic. If you have 60% of people living paycheck to paycheck, they're struggling. That's tough. All right. If you worry, which is likely the case, that your kids are going to have a lower standard of living than you do, that hurts as well. But it is not just economics. As important as that is, something else is missing. And I think Musk and his friends will make that situation even worse. In a broad sense, we are losing what might be called a sense of community, all right? You know, of relating to each other as human beings. And I worry very, very much about kids who spend their lives on the Internet, whose best friends or somebody at chat box and what that means. And that is if Musk gets his way, that is only going to intensify. Now what does it mean? We talk about robots. All right. I happen to believe that we should rebuild manufacturing in America and I oppose many of these disastrous trade policies that cost us a lot of jobs. But what does that mean if robots are going to do the work? So it's good that we produce stuff in America that's important for the supply chain. Good. But it ain't going to be jobs. Now there are people, including Musk, including Bill Gates, smart people, know a lot about this stuff, who really think. Now others disagree with them, who really think there's going to be an incredible loss of decent paying jobs as a result of robotics and AI, that a lot of entry level jobs, kids graduate college and are going to move up the ladder. Well, that first job may not be there because AI has taken that job. Is that a good thing? I mean, should we. What Musk will say is we're creating an efficient society. It's great. We're going to have AI Robotics doing everything. Yeah. Well, the operation was success. Unfortunately the patient died.

Bernie Sanders (47:40)

I agree. And you're right, maybe I said that 50 years ago as well, but I think for a variety of reasons. And I'll tell you the reasons that I Think this is an extraordinary moment. I think climate change is real. And I think if we don't get a handle on it, I worry very much what kind of quality of life our kids and future generations will have. I think that's real. Number two, I worry very much not only about oligarchy. And again, that's what this book is about in the United States. It's taking place all over the world. You know, I was stunned in the uk. I keep going back to the UK Cause you're from there, but you got a. In the UK great, beautiful nation. Something like 35% of your kids are living in poverty right now. Do you know that? I mean, that's extraordinary. A modern developed country like the UK you have countries like Saudi Arabia where you got a family with a trillion dollars, Qatar, uae, enormous wealth and power, Latin America, the guy in Mexico, one guy owns more wealth on the bottom half of that society. So what you are looking at is a world, and I touch upon it a little bit in the book, not thoroughly a little bit, is a few thousand families. So we got 8 billion people in the world today, something like that. You got a few thousand families that have unbelievable economic and political power over this world. So you talk about this moment never before. I do believe in world history have so few had so much wealth and so much economic and political power. That concerns me. And what you're also seeing throughout Europe and here under Trumpism is a lot of people are giving up on democracy. All right? And one of the events, you know, the event that we did yesterday is simply to point out that you got a president who is authoritarian, wants more and more power in his own hands and is prepared to arrest his political opponents, to take power away from universities, from law firms, from the media, suing the media. And this is a very dangerous trend, not only in the United States. You're seeing the growth of right wing extremism all over Europe as well. So I worry about that in terms of the moment that we're living in.