Modern Wisdom #1021 Summary: Louise Perry & Mary Harrington — The Performative Male Epidemic

Podcast: Modern Wisdom
Host: Chris Williamson
Guests: Louise Perry, Mary Harrington
Date: November 17, 2025

Overview

This episode delves into contemporary shifts in male and female behaviors in relationships, dating, and society, with particular focus on the "Performative Male" archetype, declining birth rates, online culture's impact on mate selection, gendered social dynamics, and the evolution of both progressive and reactionary gender roles. The discussion is vibrant, witty, and deeply culturally literate, challenging common narratives and offering fresh frameworks for understanding issues like sexual recession, masculinity in crisis, and the shifting place of women in public and private life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sexual Recession & Birth Rate Decline

Timestamps: 01:00–14:00

Americans are having less sex than ever before; this is “relationship-status agnostic,” impacting married and single people alike.
Louise and Mary highlight factors: fewer long-term relationships, smartphone distraction, obesity, xenoestrogens, and the lure of "limbic capitalism" (the hijacking of primitive drives by profit-driven platforms).

"People are just so besotted with the joys of limbic capitalism delivered via their phones that they just forget to behave like normal human beings and reproduce." — Mary Harrington (03:33)
The global decline tracks with modernity and affluence, not just technology.
The Taylor Swift “tradwife” hypothesis (whether celebrity engagements boost marriage/birth rates) is explored with healthy skepticism.
Parasocial relationships might have substitutive effects: people experience celebrities’ milestones as their own social circle’s.

2. Cultural Commentary: Limbic Capitalism & the End of Culture

Timestamps: 06:14–14:00

The hosts discuss whether birth rate decline is "nature taking its course," with modernity selecting against reproduction-friendly behaviors and cultures.

"We are being selected against by our own commercial infrastructure." — Mary Harrington (07:15)
Examples: K-pop stars’ childlessness as state policy, the link between high-status public figures and aspirational behaviors, and challenges in raising the status of parenthood.

3. Community, Technology, and the Loss of “Aunties”

Timestamps: 15:46–23:46

Tech and apps are poor substitutes for intergenerational female wisdom—a critique of efforts to digitize childrearing and matchmaking that social networks used to handle.

"You can try and replace [pattern recognition] with an app, but you can't, basically." — Louise Perry (17:38)
British village life and the role of “aunties” (wise non-grandmother women) as essential but missing in modern social structures.

"The reason I talk affectionately about my neighbors and my local community... is because living like this is what you have before trying to reverse engineer a technological replacement." — Louise Perry (21:07)

4. Memes & Archetypes: The Performative Male, Pick-Me & Himbo

Timestamps: 23:47–48:34

Performative Males: An aesthetic/mating strategy of men who present as soft, non-threatening, “feminized” (think: matcha, tote bags, floppy hair—the “Labubu man”).
The connection to “sneaky fucker” strategy and how socially progressive men sometimes hide conventional mating motives behind progressive presentation.

"[Performative males] are just droopy and feminized in presentation...at least in presentation." — Louise Perry (26:24)
Evolutionary Fitness Angle: Could “Labubu men” be more adapted to environments where female socioeconomic status is high and aggressive masculinity is devalued?
Himbo: A new ideal emerges—physically strong, good-hearted, simple ("the human equivalent of a smiley face"), distinct from the “Labubu man.”

"The new dream guy is beefy, placid, politically ambiguous... not the thinking man, just ‘man’." — Chris Williamson (39:07)
Discussions span status games, female attraction, and class/gender dynamics in mate selection.

5. Class, Nationalism, and Community Fracture

Timestamps: 54:17–61:58

Explores how concerns about nation and belonging are increasingly replaced by class and ethnic markers.
Flag disputes in the UK expose class and ethnic divides; Normans vs. Saxons as a living legacy.

"England has had a racialized caste system for a thousand years." — Louise Perry (56:12)
Middle-class support for open borders vs. working-class opposition reflects misplaced costs of demographic change.

6. Gendered Online Behavior, Masculinity in Crisis, and Offline Formation

Timestamps: 61:58–82:50

Performative “masculinity” online often mimics performative femininity, e.g., the “male to male transsexual” archetype—hyper-masculine men who are still operating via feminine-coded online behavior (gossip, posting physique).

"Lifting so they can post physique is just the girliest, girliest thing to do." — Louise Perry (102:11)
Social media is “structurally feminizing,” foreclosing avenues (like healthy male competition) needed for stable masculine identity formation.

"It strikes me that getting men together to talk about their feelings is precisely the wrong way to go about it." — Louise Perry (81:17)
Offline mentorship (“the uncles”) is vital for forming good men, especially for those from fatherless homes.

7. Mate Value, Cold Approach, and the Demise of Social Scaffolding

Timestamps: 84:21–100:59

Post-MeToo, fears of reputational risk have further chilled male-female interactions. Both women and men struggle to accurately gauge their mate value.
The “Tapp” (an app for warning about men’s reputations) is adjudged as a flawed attempt to digitally re-create local social knowledge.
The importance of interlinked social networks—dinner parties, community—now undermined by fragmented lives and lack of physical gathering.

"It assumes it’s a mutually affectionate relationship...there is also a continuum between that and domestic abuse." — Louise Perry (67:43)

8. Feminist Trends Shifting Right & Class-Inflected Signals

Timestamps: 124:30–134:14

While young women skew left (“woke”) in many countries, both guests note historical and emerging trends of right-aligned female mobilization (e.g., “pink protests” for closing migrant hotels).

"When [women] do [turn], they'll turn quickly." — Mary Harrington (130:28)

9. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Limbic Capitalism: "We are being selected against by our own commercial infrastructure." (07:15)
Men and Social Media: "It strikes me that getting men together to talk about their feelings is precisely the wrong way to go about it." (81:17)
Labubu Man: “He’s the male embodiment of a matcha drink.” — Chris Williamson (27:14)
Competence in Mating: “Competence is hot and competence cashes out ultimately as can this guy protect me in a fistfight?” — Louise Perry (75:24)
Social Scaffolding: “Women have to be willing to drop the silk glove if they want the man to make the first move." — Louise Perry (97:24)
Class & National Identity: "England has had a racialized caste system for a thousand years." — Louise Perry (56:12)

Timestamps for Segment Highlights

[01:13] Sex recession, smartphones, and birth rates
[03:33] The "limbic capitalism" thesis
[06:07] Is the birth rate crisis Darwinian self-correction?
[10:18] Role models, K-pop, and the status of parenthood
[17:38] Social pattern recognition vs. tech solutions
[23:47] Definition and emergence of "performative males"
[39:07] Rise of the "himbo" and changing female preferences
[54:17] Flags, class, and English tribalism
[81:17] Feminization of online discourse; failure to form men offline
[97:24] Social scaffolding in mate selection
[124:30] Women, wokeness, and rightward shifts
[130:28] Women turning to the right quickly

Tone

The conversation is sharp, clever, self-aware, and frequently irreverent—never shrinking from controversy, but always informed by deep cultural and historical knowledge. There is a consistent thread of skepticism towards both simple progressive and reactionary answers to social ills, with a focus on subtlety and context—delivered with British wit.

Modern Wisdom #1021 Summary: Louise Perry & Mary Harrington — The Performative Male Epidemic

Podcast: Modern Wisdom
Host: Chris Williamson
Guests: Louise Perry, Mary Harrington
Date: November 17, 2025

Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sexual Recession & Birth Rate Decline

Timestamps: 01:00–14:00

Americans are having less sex than ever before; this is “relationship-status agnostic,” impacting married and single people alike.
Louise and Mary highlight factors: fewer long-term relationships, smartphone distraction, obesity, xenoestrogens, and the lure of "limbic capitalism" (the hijacking of primitive drives by profit-driven platforms).

"People are just so besotted with the joys of limbic capitalism delivered via their phones that they just forget to behave like normal human beings and reproduce." — Mary Harrington (03:33)
The global decline tracks with modernity and affluence, not just technology.
The Taylor Swift “tradwife” hypothesis (whether celebrity engagements boost marriage/birth rates) is explored with healthy skepticism.
Parasocial relationships might have substitutive effects: people experience celebrities’ milestones as their own social circle’s.

2. Cultural Commentary: Limbic Capitalism & the End of Culture

Timestamps: 06:14–14:00

The hosts discuss whether birth rate decline is "nature taking its course," with modernity selecting against reproduction-friendly behaviors and cultures.

"We are being selected against by our own commercial infrastructure." — Mary Harrington (07:15)
Examples: K-pop stars’ childlessness as state policy, the link between high-status public figures and aspirational behaviors, and challenges in raising the status of parenthood.

3. Community, Technology, and the Loss of “Aunties”

Timestamps: 15:46–23:46

Tech and apps are poor substitutes for intergenerational female wisdom—a critique of efforts to digitize childrearing and matchmaking that social networks used to handle.

"You can try and replace [pattern recognition] with an app, but you can't, basically." — Louise Perry (17:38)
British village life and the role of “aunties” (wise non-grandmother women) as essential but missing in modern social structures.

"The reason I talk affectionately about my neighbors and my local community... is because living like this is what you have before trying to reverse engineer a technological replacement." — Louise Perry (21:07)

4. Memes & Archetypes: The Performative Male, Pick-Me & Himbo

Timestamps: 23:47–48:34

Performative Males: An aesthetic/mating strategy of men who present as soft, non-threatening, “feminized” (think: matcha, tote bags, floppy hair—the “Labubu man”).
The connection to “sneaky fucker” strategy and how socially progressive men sometimes hide conventional mating motives behind progressive presentation.

"[Performative males] are just droopy and feminized in presentation...at least in presentation." — Louise Perry (26:24)
Evolutionary Fitness Angle: Could “Labubu men” be more adapted to environments where female socioeconomic status is high and aggressive masculinity is devalued?
Himbo: A new ideal emerges—physically strong, good-hearted, simple ("the human equivalent of a smiley face"), distinct from the “Labubu man.”

"The new dream guy is beefy, placid, politically ambiguous... not the thinking man, just ‘man’." — Chris Williamson (39:07)
Discussions span status games, female attraction, and class/gender dynamics in mate selection.

5. Class, Nationalism, and Community Fracture

Timestamps: 54:17–61:58

Explores how concerns about nation and belonging are increasingly replaced by class and ethnic markers.
Flag disputes in the UK expose class and ethnic divides; Normans vs. Saxons as a living legacy.

"England has had a racialized caste system for a thousand years." — Louise Perry (56:12)
Middle-class support for open borders vs. working-class opposition reflects misplaced costs of demographic change.

6. Gendered Online Behavior, Masculinity in Crisis, and Offline Formation

Timestamps: 61:58–82:50

Performative “masculinity” online often mimics performative femininity, e.g., the “male to male transsexual” archetype—hyper-masculine men who are still operating via feminine-coded online behavior (gossip, posting physique).

"Lifting so they can post physique is just the girliest, girliest thing to do." — Louise Perry (102:11)
Social media is “structurally feminizing,” foreclosing avenues (like healthy male competition) needed for stable masculine identity formation.

"It strikes me that getting men together to talk about their feelings is precisely the wrong way to go about it." — Louise Perry (81:17)
Offline mentorship (“the uncles”) is vital for forming good men, especially for those from fatherless homes.

7. Mate Value, Cold Approach, and the Demise of Social Scaffolding

Timestamps: 84:21–100:59

Post-MeToo, fears of reputational risk have further chilled male-female interactions. Both women and men struggle to accurately gauge their mate value.
The “Tapp” (an app for warning about men’s reputations) is adjudged as a flawed attempt to digitally re-create local social knowledge.
The importance of interlinked social networks—dinner parties, community—now undermined by fragmented lives and lack of physical gathering.

"It assumes it’s a mutually affectionate relationship...there is also a continuum between that and domestic abuse." — Louise Perry (67:43)

8. Feminist Trends Shifting Right & Class-Inflected Signals

Timestamps: 124:30–134:14

While young women skew left (“woke”) in many countries, both guests note historical and emerging trends of right-aligned female mobilization (e.g., “pink protests” for closing migrant hotels).

"When [women] do [turn], they'll turn quickly." — Mary Harrington (130:28)

9. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Limbic Capitalism: "We are being selected against by our own commercial infrastructure." (07:15)
Men and Social Media: "It strikes me that getting men together to talk about their feelings is precisely the wrong way to go about it." (81:17)
Labubu Man: “He’s the male embodiment of a matcha drink.” — Chris Williamson (27:14)
Competence in Mating: “Competence is hot and competence cashes out ultimately as can this guy protect me in a fistfight?” — Louise Perry (75:24)
Social Scaffolding: “Women have to be willing to drop the silk glove if they want the man to make the first move." — Louise Perry (97:24)
Class & National Identity: "England has had a racialized caste system for a thousand years." — Louise Perry (56:12)

Timestamps for Segment Highlights

[01:13] Sex recession, smartphones, and birth rates
[03:33] The "limbic capitalism" thesis
[06:07] Is the birth rate crisis Darwinian self-correction?
[10:18] Role models, K-pop, and the status of parenthood
[17:38] Social pattern recognition vs. tech solutions
[23:47] Definition and emergence of "performative males"
[39:07] Rise of the "himbo" and changing female preferences
[54:17] Flags, class, and English tribalism
[81:17] Feminization of online discourse; failure to form men offline
[97:24] Social scaffolding in mate selection
[124:30] Women, wokeness, and rightward shifts
[130:28] Women turning to the right quickly

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#1021 - Louise Perry & Mary Harrington - The Performative Male Epidemic

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Summary

Modern Wisdom #1021 Summary: Louise Perry & Mary Harrington — The Performative Male Epidemic

Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sexual Recession & Birth Rate Decline

2. Cultural Commentary: Limbic Capitalism & the End of Culture

3. Community, Technology, and the Loss of “Aunties”

4. Memes & Archetypes: The Performative Male, Pick-Me & Himbo

5. Class, Nationalism, and Community Fracture

6. Gendered Online Behavior, Masculinity in Crisis, and Offline Formation

7. Mate Value, Cold Approach, and the Demise of Social Scaffolding

8. Feminist Trends Shifting Right & Class-Inflected Signals

9. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Segment Highlights

Tone

Further Reading from the Speakers

Summary

Modern Wisdom #1021 Summary: Louise Perry & Mary Harrington — The Performative Male Epidemic

Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sexual Recession & Birth Rate Decline

2. Cultural Commentary: Limbic Capitalism & the End of Culture

3. Community, Technology, and the Loss of “Aunties”

4. Memes & Archetypes: The Performative Male, Pick-Me & Himbo

5. Class, Nationalism, and Community Fracture

6. Gendered Online Behavior, Masculinity in Crisis, and Offline Formation

7. Mate Value, Cold Approach, and the Demise of Social Scaffolding

8. Feminist Trends Shifting Right & Class-Inflected Signals

9. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Segment Highlights

Tone

Further Reading from the Speakers