Modern Wisdom #1023 – I Prevail: The Trades You Make to Live Your Dreams

Date: November 22, 2025
Host: Chris Williamson
Guests: Gabe and Eric (I Prevail)

Episode Overview

This episode of Modern Wisdom brings together Chris Williamson and I Prevail’s Gabe and Eric for an in-depth exploration of what it actually costs to pursue your passion at the highest level—emotionally, relationally, and personally. Through candid stories and sharp insight, the discussion revolves around the modern rock/metal scene, the demands and sacrifices of touring, creative evolution, artistic identity, the AI revolution in music, business realities, obsession, and what’s truly at stake when your calling becomes your career.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Banter: Rituals, Pranks, & Band Camaraderie

• The episode starts light with stories of on-tour pranks—pies, confetti, and friendly “warfare,” underscoring the importance of band camaraderie and playful traditions. The mood quickly pivots to deeper topics.
  • [00:28] Eric: “Yeah, well, I don’t know, man. I feel like having a confetti bukkake is a good way to start a show.”
  • [01:41] Gabe: “This will start a two-year war.”

2. The State of Rock & Metal in 2025

• Rock/metal is experiencing a surge, with live music uniquely thriving compared to genres like pop and hip-hop. Generational appeal and a desire for visceral, communal experiences are strong drivers.
  • [02:28] Eric: “Modern metal is just in such a... boom right now. Resurgence.”
  • [03:48] Gabe: “People are desperate for experiences… In the rock and the metal community, engagement is key.”

Key Themes:

• Generational Nostalgia & New Energy: Multi-generational crowds at shows, mix of legacy and modern acts.
• Visceral Live Experience: Audience participation, unpredictability, the risk, and energy in live performance set rock/metal apart.

3. Evolution of Sound: Blending Metal & Pop

• The genre’s biggest acts are merging melody-driven pop sensibilities with heavy breakdowns, appealing to broader audiences.
  • [07:50] Gabe: “Metal and pop are fusing in a lot of ways and fusing in a way that’s done very well... Sleep Token, Bad Omens, those bands… have mastered melody.”
  • [09:16] Chris: “Caramel is one of the catchiest… fucking hooks maybe of all time.”

Surprise & Creativity in Songwriting

• Bands are playing with structure and subverting expectations; pop and country less likely to surprise.
  • [10:14] Eric: “It blows your expectations out…”

4. Lyricism, Catharsis, and Emotional Connection

• Heavy music as a conduit for difficult emotions—anger, grief, catharsis—which fans and artists both benefit from.
  • [11:23] Chris: “Is metal… tapping into an emotion that’s difficult for people to find catharsis with elsewhere?”
  • [12:59] Chris: “It still speaks to—huh. I have challenges and sometimes they’re hard and nobody understands me…”

Authenticity & Life Experience

• Success can distance artists from relatable struggle (“velvet handcuffs”), risking a disconnect from the rawness that fuels resonant art.
  • [14:45] Chris: “There’s something about the friction… that causes people to dig a little bit deeper.”
  • [16:29] Eric: “I had to go back and… pick open some scabs that didn’t really fully heal… every song [has to] come from something that has some real emotion…”

5. The Creative & Collaborative Process

• I Prevail’s process uses departmental strengths (lyrics, instrumentals, production), balancing personal stories and group synergy.
  • [22:02] Gabe: “I joke that we are business metal. We kind of have these different departments… I’m not trying to play in a sandbox that I don’t belong in.”
• Performing Emotional Songs: Connection changes; sometimes songs lose or regain meaning depending on audience response.
  • [24:02] Eric: “...I see someone sobbing to a song and then I’m like, brought back immediately to the emotion…”

6. The Demands, Costs, and Structure of the Music Business

• Talent, marketing savvy, and business acumen are equally vital; social media and AI are new variables.
  • [28:03] Eric: “I had no talent when I was starting this thing… But you have to quickly figure your shit out.”
  • [29:16] Gabe: “You need a good product. ...bands that are doing the best are the ones who understand how to market themselves… and very good marketing.”
• Labels vs. Indie: More control = more risk and effort, but fewer intermediaries means greater rewards (and vulnerabilities).
  • [50:34] Chris: “I’ve done the equivalent of remaining independent as an artist. Everything is bootstrapped.”

7. AI & the Future of Music

• Mixed reactions: opportunity for discoverability but fear of dilution and losing “the human experience."
  • [30:55] Eric: “It’s a little frightening… Now there’s even less of the pie.”
  • [32:36] Gabe: “People are craving more physical experiences or people to connect with.”
  • [38:49] Chris: “Originality is just undetected plagiarism… There’s an interesting ethical challenge here—how much assistance is too much?”
• The industry is adapting, but human connection through live performance is seen as a solid moat.

8. Burnout, Balance, & Personal Costs

• Touring’s relentless pace leads to missed life milestones, burnout, and constant negotiation of personal and professional boundaries.
  • [61:20] Eric: “Doing something that makes you feel like a person again has definitely helped…”
  • [61:20–64:41] Grieving on the road, compartmentalization, and the importance of considering the crowd’s experience.
  • [69:00] Eric: “It’s difficult trying to plan around life events… if someone’s got to fly home for a weekend, we try to slot some time.”

Regret, Contentment & Trade-Offs

• The “horizon” of being done is an illusion; you must choose your regrets—no life is free from cost.
  • [78:41] A/B: “It’s the ever-growing illusion that one day you’ll be done… I’m doing as much as I can right now so I can retire at 40 and have all the time.”
  • [81:22] Chris: “I think if I were sitting in my house… behind my computer all day?... I might have the same thought of you missed your life.”

9. Business Realities, Revenue, and Teamwork

• Music income is fragmented—a constant fight for each dollar with labels, publishers, agents and managers. Each member brings specific business/technical skills in addition to musicianship.
  • [48:07] Gabe: “You need to be multifaceted… My department is drums, but also… content media machine, marketing, back-end business…”
  • [54:29] Gabe: “The ironic thing is, to be able to play drums professionally, I had to learn a lot about business.”

10. Artistic Process, Obsession & Mental Health

• Creativity brings a “pure reward" no other arena can offer, but obsession, imposter syndrome, and attention to small details often come at a psychological price.
  • [57:39] Gabe: “Driving home in your car listening to this 30 second demo...feels like pure creativity.”
  • [118:13] Chris: “You don’t get extraordinary outcomes with ordinary inputs… but they’re not all good.”
  • [120:53] Chris: “Orienting yourself toward the prices is better than orienting yourself toward the profits…”

Discipline vs. Obsession

• Obsession is “free motivation,” but dangerous when unchecked; trade-offs between consistency and variety, ambition and enjoying the moment.
  • [124:59] Chris: “With obsession, you never get to turn it off. It permeates all of you…”

11. Band Dynamics, Emotional Safety, & Longevity

• Longevity depends on deliberate group dynamics, open communication, and a systemized way to process feedback (“Sunday Smackdowns").
  • [157:31] Gabe: “Every Sunday on the road… how’s everything gone this past week? Are we good? Is there any debrief?”
  • [160:36] Chris: “Unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments.”

Morale and Emotional Labor

• Balancing morale with honesty: must keep the vibe up, but also create space for true hardship—too much denial corrodes health; too much honesty can risk morale.
  • [150:47] Chris: “If you suppress your emotions for too long, it’s gonna fuck you up… But if you’re in this permanent, like, constant state of denial, at what point are you allowed to actually have, ‘I’m struggling, man’?”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [13:19] Gabe: “I feel like it took me to low places where…my emotions are viscerally connecting with this music. And it was a gift in a lot of ways, because it allowed me to see through the fans’ eyes.”
• [14:45] Chris: “It’s kind of the like golden prison, like velvet fucking handcuffs… if you’re touring 200 days out of the year, what life have you got to inject into the art?”
• [38:49] Chris: “Originality is just undetected plagiarism… There’s an interesting ethical challenge here: how much assistance is too much?”
• [61:20] Eric: “Doing something that makes you feel like a person again has definitely helped… having those hobbies, having those things to distract yourself from the mental fatigue has been huge for me.”
• [78:03] Chris (on aging in metal): “If you’re not careful, you missed your life. You missed your life. You didn’t just do this thing when you were young and had fun.”
• [118:05] Chris: “You don’t get extraordinary outcomes with ordinary inputs. And these guys have got extraordinary inputs, but they’re not all good.”
• [120:53] Chris: “Orienting yourself toward the prices is better than orienting yourself toward the profits…”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:53] State of rock/metal & live music's unique place
• [07:50] Metal's fusion with pop/melody
• [11:14] Catharsis and emotion in heavy music
• [14:45] The “velvet handcuffs” of success and struggle for authenticity
• [22:00] I Prevail’s creative process: team “departments”
• [28:03] The importance (and limits) of talent vs. marketing; business complexity
• [30:49] AI’s rise, ethical questions, and industry responses
• [61:20] Tour burnout & strategies for coping
• [78:03] Regret & contentment – the price of a touring life
• [118:05] Obsession, creativity, and artistic suffering
• [157:31] Sunday Smackdowns: managing band conflict & emotional transparency

Conclusion: Lessons & Takeaways

This conversation offers a starkly honest, behind-the-scenes look at the dreams and the costs of life at the intersection of passion, business, and suffering. The band’s camaraderie and openness about pain and grief highlight the vital importance of chosen community—not only as creative partners but as fellow travelers through the unique struggles of an artist’s existence.

If you haven’t listened, expect insight into the realities behind the shows—what’s paid, what’s lost, and what’s ultimately worth it. For musicians and fans alike, this is an essential window into the mindsets and trade-offs that define a modern creative life.

Final Quotes

• [145:58] Eric: “Try not to dwell on it and just take the lessons as they come.”
• [146:05] Chris: “You’re gonna have one hell of an amount of deep emotional well to tap into when it comes to writing the next record… what better of a tribute to someone who’s a huge part of the band than to just keep doing the thing that they wanted you to crush at.”
• [149:07] Gabe: “We all are trying to impress each other in a certain way, which, like, grows all of what we do.”

Tour Notes & Outro

• New record out now.
• Touring EU in September/October; more dates TBA.
• “We’re gonna be touring more this year than we planned.”
• Gabe (joking): “Chris, your calves are magnificent.” [162:20]
• Chris: “You don’t get extraordinary outcomes with ordinary inputs—and that price isn’t always pretty.”

For the full Modern Wisdom reading list, visit ChrisWillX.com/books.