Modern Wisdom #1033 — Judd Apatow: Why Comedies Suck Now
Guest: Judd Apatow
Host: Chris Williamson
Release Date: December 15, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features legendary comedy filmmaker and writer Judd Apatow in a deep, candid discussion about the evolution of comedy, creativity born from pain, and the changing landscape of movies. Apatow reflects on his personal journey, creative insecurities, and the delicate dance between vulnerability and working in the entertainment business today. With host Chris Williamson, they dissect why comedies feel stagnant, what’s broken in the industry, and how obsession and trauma often spark creativity. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, practical wisdom, and rare insight into the mechanics of making people laugh in today’s world.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trauma, Obsession, and the Roots of Comedy
[00:00–07:22]
- Judd’s Parental Divorce as Comic Fuel: Apatow opens with how his parents' tumultuous divorce became the wellspring for much of his comedic sensibility.
- “It was just enough damage to get you in the game…” — Judd [00:06].
- Discomfort as Creative Catalyst: They reflect on how comedians (and musicians) often draw inspiration from pain and hypervigilance.
- “Is it a prerequisite to be a funny comedian? Is it difficult to be a funny comedian without a ton of trauma?” — Chris [02:02].
- Hypervigilance & Observation: The way childhood mistrust and feeling unsafe foster heightened observation—gifts that translate into sharp comedy.
- “I think you just pay attention in a different way to the world and you don't feel safe…” — Judd [02:21].
- The Double-Edged Sword of Obsession: Creative energy that brings career rewards can become a personal flaw, affecting relationships and family.
- “You get rewarded for your worst qualities.” — Judd [05:29].
2. Creative Anxiety, Bombing, and Comedic Process
[07:22–22:47]
- Control and Parenthood: Apatow recounts parenthood as another realm where he had to relinquish control and endure severe sleep deprivation.
- “I remember not sleeping for a year…” — Judd [08:10].
- Fear of Failure and Work Obsession: Linking creative fear to childhood abandonment, Judd confesses projecting personal anxieties onto creative disagreements.
- “My biggest fear is always someone being able to ruin the TV show or the movie…” [05:29].
- Practicing in Public: Stand-up comedy and podcasting, unlike many arts, require failing in front of an audience as the path to mastery.
- “It's the only profession that you have to learn how to do it in front of people.” — Judd [20:31].
- Bombing as R&D: Experimentation and accepting that new jokes may sometimes “kill your set,” but are essential for growth.
- “Every joke is something that you're adding to your act… And if it works, then I put it on the it works pile.” — Judd [21:55].
3. Audience Dynamics, Persona, and Resilience
[22:47–32:35]
- Managing Performance Anxiety: Some comedians “lean into the bomb,” relishing in tension—Norm Macdonald cited as an example.
- “His relationship was not with the audience. His relationship was with the joke.” — Judd [25:23].
- Trust and Momentum: Losing audience trust is more about perceived performer nerves than joke quality—applies to film as well.
- “When you look nervous, they lose faith in you.” — Judd [27:11].
- Persona over Content: Gary Shandling’s journals emphasized audiences coming for the overall vibe/persona more than any single joke.
- “They're not there to see a joke. Like, people go to see Elvis, they don't go to hear a song.” — Judd [27:54].
- Bulletproof Comedians: Bill Burr praised for focus and resilience, never appearing shaken on stage.
- “He always has his energy and his focus. He never looks like he isn't excited to be there.” — Judd [29:50].
4. Solitude, Success, and Comparison
[32:35–44:52]
- No Private Practice: The unique vulnerability of stand-up—growth is all public and scrutinized, unlike songwriting or sports.
- “You have to make money also. So… you're not that good. You're trying to get paid…” — Judd [34:22].
- Status Comparisons: Judd shares feelings about performing with Adam Sandler and realizing the ceiling set by even more prominent friends.
- “His laughs were twice as big as mine.” — Judd [36:59].
- Self-Doubt and Finding Voice: Apatow’s realization that creativity flourishes when it’s most personal—took until Freaks & Geeks to understand this.
- “The more personal I am, the better it is.” — Judd [37:41].
- Building Your Own Crew: Circumventing traditional pathways (like SNL) by creating the Ben Stiller Show and forming new tribes.
- “My path is just gonna be a completely different path. And that's totally fine…” — Judd [41:50].
5. Collaboration, Mentorship, and the Loss of Camaraderie
[44:52–55:12]
- Transience of Connection: The heartbreak of show business—intense creative bonds that dissolve as projects end.
- “You fall in love with everybody… and then everyone heads off in other directions.” — Judd [44:52].
- Industry Siloing: Rise of solo projects and internet comedy means less built-in collaboration or real mentorship.
- “But the thing that you have gotten rid of is maybe actually the whole reason for doing it in the first place, which was the fact that you get to hang with people.” — Chris [44:16].
- Longing for Tribes: Apatow admits getting into comedy chiefly for connection with “people like me.”
- “I only got in it for the connection… Even more than the love of comedy.” — Judd [45:14].
6. The (Broken) Economics of Comedy Movies
[61:11–66:37]
- Why Comedies Suck Now:
- DVD sales once doubled comedy movie revenues—removal of this income via streaming changed producer risk calculations.
- “When people switched to streaming, nothing replaced the DVD money.” — Judd [63:40].
- Studios stopped betting on mid-budget comedies, funneling resources into huge blockbusters or cheap horrors.
- Lack of opportunity for new comedy stars to prove themselves—comedy roles now often co-opted by other genres, e.g., action films with comedic dialogue.
- “Everyone has pulled it in and the audience is like, yeah, a Marvel movie is basically a comedy for half of it.” — Judd [66:37].
- DVD sales once doubled comedy movie revenues—removal of this income via streaming changed producer risk calculations.
- Viral Hits Can Reverse Trends: The industry is cyclical, waiting for the next surprise smash to signal a comeback.
- “If someone made the Hangover right now, it would be gigantic. And then they would chase it a little bit.” — Judd [65:47].
7. The Art, Ethics, and Censorship in Comedy
[46:02–58:02]
- “Anything goes as long as it's funny, wise and true.” Judd believes intent and personal goodness allow comics to push boundaries.
- “If you have a good heart, you can say almost anything.” — Judd [50:53].
- Jimmy Carr cited as an example: edgy jokes, but audiences trust his spirit.
- Modern Sensitivity: Social media judges subcultures globally, raising fallout for edgier comics but blurring the idea of niche followings and “alternative” audiences.
- “In the old days, nothing was fed to you. You'd had to seek it out.” — Judd [55:12].
- Comedy as a Social Salve: The ability to joke about a topic as evidence that it can be processed, assimilated, and healed.
- “People who say that thing is too sensitive to joke about are saying the exact same as that disease is too serious to treat.” — (Jimmy Carr, quoted by Chris) [55:39].
8. Mentorship, Collaboration, and Constructive Critique
[75:23–79:10]
- Value of Honest Feedback: Apatow highlights the necessity of collaborators who will risk saying “no” for the good of the project.
- “Those people are so essential. Even when it, when it's painful.” — Judd [75:57].
- Learning from Table Reads and Focus Groups: Receiving brutal honesty in performance testing tempers the final product.
- “There's nothing you can say that will offend me and create a space where people will say what they feel…” — Judd [76:23].
- Mentor Legacy: Gary Shandling’s guidance shaped Apatow’s approach, emphasizing passing the torch.
- “This is what you're supposed to do for other people.” — Judd [77:54].
9. Advice for Breaking In and the Realities of Showbiz Politics
[83:49–89:36]
- Work for Free, Overdeliver: Apatow advocates massive over-delivery and “apprenticeship” at the start—working for free to become indispensable.
- “Just want to over deliver it to a ridiculous extreme… no one is going to outwork him.” — Judd [84:11].
- Schmooze vs. Substance: The fine line between playing the social game and maintaining authentic creative voice.
- “If you're not cool and they're on the bubble about whether or not to do it, they're always not going to do it if they don't want to have that relationship.” — Judd [90:53].
Notable Quotes
-
On Creative Origin:
“You get rewarded for your worst qualities.” — Judd Apatow [05:29] -
On Stand-Up Process:
“Practicing in public. There is no practicing in private. There's only practicing in public.” — Chris Williamson [21:12] -
On Professional Insecurity:
“I was worried that people were going to find out I didn't know what I was doing.” — Judd Apatow [19:09] -
On Industry Change:
“When people switched to streaming, nothing replaced the DVD money.” — Judd Apatow [63:40] -
On Comedic Honesty:
“If you have a good heart, you can say almost anything.” — Judd Apatow [50:53] -
On Legacy and Mentorship:
“This is what you're supposed to do for other people.” — Judd Apatow [77:54]
Essential Timestamps
- 00:00–07:22 — Trauma as comedic inspiration; family dynamics
- 07:22–22:47 — Obsession, career drive, parental control, public failure
- 22:47–32:35 — Performance anxiety, persona, trust with audiences
- 32:35–44:52 — Public scrutiny, peer comparison, building new paths
- 44:52–55:12 — Loss of creative communities, industry siloing, longing for collaboration
- 61:11–66:37 — Economics behind the decline in big comedy films
- 46:02–58:02 — What’s acceptable in comedy, cancel culture, and intention
- 75:23–79:10 — Constructive criticism and the value of honest collaborators
- 83:49–89:36 — Breaking into entertainment; schmooze vs. talent
Tone and Style
Rich with self-deprecating humor and insightful vulnerability, Apatow and Williamson’s exchange blends warmth, candor, and analytical depth. The personal stories are honest without solipsism, and the industry critique is direct but not cynical. Both men remain hopeful about the future of comedy but are realistic about the challenges creatives face in today’s fragmented and corporate entertainment ecosystem.
Closing
For more from Judd Apatow:
- Website: [juddapatow.com]
- Book: Comedy Nerd
- Stand-up: Monthly shows at Largo, Los Angeles