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#1033- Judd Apatow - Why Comedies Suck Now

Modern Wisdom

Mon Dec 15 2025

Summary

Modern Wisdom #1033 — Judd Apatow: Why Comedies Suck Now

Guest: Judd Apatow
Host: Chris Williamson
Release Date: December 15, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features legendary comedy filmmaker and writer Judd Apatow in a deep, candid discussion about the evolution of comedy, creativity born from pain, and the changing landscape of movies. Apatow reflects on his personal journey, creative insecurities, and the delicate dance between vulnerability and working in the entertainment business today. With host Chris Williamson, they dissect why comedies feel stagnant, what’s broken in the industry, and how obsession and trauma often spark creativity. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, practical wisdom, and rare insight into the mechanics of making people laugh in today’s world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trauma, Obsession, and the Roots of Comedy

[00:00–07:22]

Judd’s Parental Divorce as Comic Fuel: Apatow opens with how his parents' tumultuous divorce became the wellspring for much of his comedic sensibility.
- “It was just enough damage to get you in the game…” — Judd [00:06].
Discomfort as Creative Catalyst: They reflect on how comedians (and musicians) often draw inspiration from pain and hypervigilance.
- “Is it a prerequisite to be a funny comedian? Is it difficult to be a funny comedian without a ton of trauma?” — Chris [02:02].
Hypervigilance & Observation: The way childhood mistrust and feeling unsafe foster heightened observation—gifts that translate into sharp comedy.
- “I think you just pay attention in a different way to the world and you don't feel safe…” — Judd [02:21].
The Double-Edged Sword of Obsession: Creative energy that brings career rewards can become a personal flaw, affecting relationships and family.
- “You get rewarded for your worst qualities.” — Judd [05:29].

2. Creative Anxiety, Bombing, and Comedic Process

[07:22–22:47]

Control and Parenthood: Apatow recounts parenthood as another realm where he had to relinquish control and endure severe sleep deprivation.
- “I remember not sleeping for a year…” — Judd [08:10].
Fear of Failure and Work Obsession: Linking creative fear to childhood abandonment, Judd confesses projecting personal anxieties onto creative disagreements.
- “My biggest fear is always someone being able to ruin the TV show or the movie…” [05:29].
Practicing in Public: Stand-up comedy and podcasting, unlike many arts, require failing in front of an audience as the path to mastery.
- “It's the only profession that you have to learn how to do it in front of people.” — Judd [20:31].
Bombing as R&D: Experimentation and accepting that new jokes may sometimes “kill your set,” but are essential for growth.
- “Every joke is something that you're adding to your act… And if it works, then I put it on the it works pile.” — Judd [21:55].

3. Audience Dynamics, Persona, and Resilience

[22:47–32:35]

Managing Performance Anxiety: Some comedians “lean into the bomb,” relishing in tension—Norm Macdonald cited as an example.
- “His relationship was not with the audience. His relationship was with the joke.” — Judd [25:23].
Trust and Momentum: Losing audience trust is more about perceived performer nerves than joke quality—applies to film as well.
- “When you look nervous, they lose faith in you.” — Judd [27:11].
Persona over Content: Gary Shandling’s journals emphasized audiences coming for the overall vibe/persona more than any single joke.
- “They're not there to see a joke. Like, people go to see Elvis, they don't go to hear a song.” — Judd [27:54].
Bulletproof Comedians: Bill Burr praised for focus and resilience, never appearing shaken on stage.
- “He always has his energy and his focus. He never looks like he isn't excited to be there.” — Judd [29:50].

4. Solitude, Success, and Comparison

[32:35–44:52]

No Private Practice: The unique vulnerability of stand-up—growth is all public and scrutinized, unlike songwriting or sports.
- “You have to make money also. So… you're not that good. You're trying to get paid…” — Judd [34:22].
Status Comparisons: Judd shares feelings about performing with Adam Sandler and realizing the ceiling set by even more prominent friends.
- “His laughs were twice as big as mine.” — Judd [36:59].
Self-Doubt and Finding Voice: Apatow’s realization that creativity flourishes when it’s most personal—took until Freaks & Geeks to understand this.
- “The more personal I am, the better it is.” — Judd [37:41].
Building Your Own Crew: Circumventing traditional pathways (like SNL) by creating the Ben Stiller Show and forming new tribes.
- “My path is just gonna be a completely different path. And that's totally fine…” — Judd [41:50].

5. Collaboration, Mentorship, and the Loss of Camaraderie

[44:52–55:12]

Transience of Connection: The heartbreak of show business—intense creative bonds that dissolve as projects end.
- “You fall in love with everybody… and then everyone heads off in other directions.” — Judd [44:52].
Industry Siloing: Rise of solo projects and internet comedy means less built-in collaboration or real mentorship.
- “But the thing that you have gotten rid of is maybe actually the whole reason for doing it in the first place, which was the fact that you get to hang with people.” — Chris [44:16].
Longing for Tribes: Apatow admits getting into comedy chiefly for connection with “people like me.”
- “I only got in it for the connection… Even more than the love of comedy.” — Judd [45:14].

6. The (Broken) Economics of Comedy Movies

[61:11–66:37]

Why Comedies Suck Now:
- DVD sales once doubled comedy movie revenues—removal of this income via streaming changed producer risk calculations.
  - “When people switched to streaming, nothing replaced the DVD money.” — Judd [63:40].
- Studios stopped betting on mid-budget comedies, funneling resources into huge blockbusters or cheap horrors.
- Lack of opportunity for new comedy stars to prove themselves—comedy roles now often co-opted by other genres, e.g., action films with comedic dialogue.
  - “Everyone has pulled it in and the audience is like, yeah, a Marvel movie is basically a comedy for half of it.” — Judd [66:37].
Viral Hits Can Reverse Trends: The industry is cyclical, waiting for the next surprise smash to signal a comeback.
- “If someone made the Hangover right now, it would be gigantic. And then they would chase it a little bit.” — Judd [65:47].

7. The Art, Ethics, and Censorship in Comedy

[46:02–58:02]

“Anything goes as long as it's funny, wise and true.” Judd believes intent and personal goodness allow comics to push boundaries.
- “If you have a good heart, you can say almost anything.” — Judd [50:53].
- Jimmy Carr cited as an example: edgy jokes, but audiences trust his spirit.
Modern Sensitivity: Social media judges subcultures globally, raising fallout for edgier comics but blurring the idea of niche followings and “alternative” audiences.
- “In the old days, nothing was fed to you. You'd had to seek it out.” — Judd [55:12].
Comedy as a Social Salve: The ability to joke about a topic as evidence that it can be processed, assimilated, and healed.
- “People who say that thing is too sensitive to joke about are saying the exact same as that disease is too serious to treat.” — (Jimmy Carr, quoted by Chris) [55:39].

8. Mentorship, Collaboration, and Constructive Critique

[75:23–79:10]

Value of Honest Feedback: Apatow highlights the necessity of collaborators who will risk saying “no” for the good of the project.
- “Those people are so essential. Even when it, when it's painful.” — Judd [75:57].
Learning from Table Reads and Focus Groups: Receiving brutal honesty in performance testing tempers the final product.
- “There's nothing you can say that will offend me and create a space where people will say what they feel…” — Judd [76:23].
Mentor Legacy: Gary Shandling’s guidance shaped Apatow’s approach, emphasizing passing the torch.
- “This is what you're supposed to do for other people.” — Judd [77:54].

9. Advice for Breaking In and the Realities of Showbiz Politics

[83:49–89:36]

Work for Free, Overdeliver: Apatow advocates massive over-delivery and “apprenticeship” at the start—working for free to become indispensable.
- “Just want to over deliver it to a ridiculous extreme… no one is going to outwork him.” — Judd [84:11].
Schmooze vs. Substance: The fine line between playing the social game and maintaining authentic creative voice.
- “If you're not cool and they're on the bubble about whether or not to do it, they're always not going to do it if they don't want to have that relationship.” — Judd [90:53].

Notable Quotes

On Creative Origin:
“You get rewarded for your worst qualities.” — Judd Apatow [05:29]
On Stand-Up Process:
“Practicing in public. There is no practicing in private. There's only practicing in public.” — Chris Williamson [21:12]
On Professional Insecurity:
“I was worried that people were going to find out I didn't know what I was doing.” — Judd Apatow [19:09]
On Industry Change:
“When people switched to streaming, nothing replaced the DVD money.” — Judd Apatow [63:40]
On Comedic Honesty:
“If you have a good heart, you can say almost anything.” — Judd Apatow [50:53]
On Legacy and Mentorship:
“This is what you're supposed to do for other people.” — Judd Apatow [77:54]

Essential Timestamps

00:00–07:22 — Trauma as comedic inspiration; family dynamics
07:22–22:47 — Obsession, career drive, parental control, public failure
22:47–32:35 — Performance anxiety, persona, trust with audiences
32:35–44:52 — Public scrutiny, peer comparison, building new paths
44:52–55:12 — Loss of creative communities, industry siloing, longing for collaboration
61:11–66:37 — Economics behind the decline in big comedy films
46:02–58:02 — What’s acceptable in comedy, cancel culture, and intention
75:23–79:10 — Constructive criticism and the value of honest collaborators
83:49–89:36 — Breaking into entertainment; schmooze vs. talent

Tone and Style

Rich with self-deprecating humor and insightful vulnerability, Apatow and Williamson’s exchange blends warmth, candor, and analytical depth. The personal stories are honest without solipsism, and the industry critique is direct but not cynical. Both men remain hopeful about the future of comedy but are realistic about the challenges creatives face in today’s fragmented and corporate entertainment ecosystem.

Closing

For more from Judd Apatow:

Website: [juddapatow.com]
Book: Comedy Nerd
Stand-up: Monthly shows at Largo, Los Angeles

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Transcript

Chris Williamson (0:00)

You said your parents divorce, bought your house and cars.

Judd Apatow (0:03)

That's true.

Chris Williamson (0:04)

How so?

Judd Apatow (0:06)

It's funny because when I first started doing stand up, I remember writing in a notebook, and this was years, actually years before I ever got on stage. Some joke about how Richard Pryor's, like, grandmother ran a brothel. Like, he grew up in a brothel. And. And all I had to work with to be a comedian was my parents getting divorced. Like, it wasn't enough to be a genius. It was just enough damage to get you in the game that I wished my grandmother ran a brothel. And then maybe I would be more messed up.

Chris Williamson (0:42)

You wanted more trauma.

Judd Apatow (0:43)

I needed more trauma. But it was enough. It certainly was enough. But back then, when people got divorced in the early 80s, people just, you know, fought. They, like, really, like, fought. People weren't aware that you should keep it away from the kids.

Chris Williamson (0:58)

Oh, it was all out in the open.

Judd Apatow (1:00)

Yeah. Too much involvement, too much trench warfare.

Chris Williamson (1:03)

And you were in the middle of it.

Judd Apatow (1:04)

Exactly. Too much of us knowing what was going on. And I. We had really thin walls. I remember I would hear them arguing, so I knew they were going to get divorced way before they told me.

Chris Williamson (1:13)

It was a protracted dispute.

Judd Apatow (1:15)

Yeah. And the funny part was they sat us all down. I remember, like, sitting me and my brother and sister down, like, on the brick next to the fireplace and telling us they were getting divorced. And then six months later, they got back together. And then a year and a half later, they sat us down again.

Chris Williamson (1:34)

Oh, my God.

Judd Apatow (1:34)

So I had the double. The double divorced.

Chris Williamson (1:36)

They got divorced twice.

Chris Williamson (22:47)

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Chris Williamson (42:14)

That's an interesting part. The fact that so much of creative work now can be done independently. You know, you can, from your bedroom, track a single with programmed drums. You don't need a drum kit. And you can have your vocals recorded and your instrument that you play, and then just pay somebody to come in and do keys or bass or whatever the fuck it is that you don't do and go, that's now on the Internet. That's on the Internet. And then you step up a little bit. Maybe you've got a producer or something else. But largely it's a very solo enterprise. The same thing goes for comedy. You get Trevor Wallace, if you know who Trevor is, he was sat in the seat a couple of days ago. Huge, huge, huge comedian. Like 40 million play TikToks, 100 million play TikToks. And him and his video guy and whoever he's starring with can go tomorrow and record the idea he had today. So you have reduced down the amount of collaboration that's needed, is what I'm saying. You don't need a big team with camops and a set and a union and. Right. In some ways, that's very attractive and seductive. Because you think, I don't need anyone. I can do this myself. I literally don't need anyone. And even if I do need some people, I don't need many. Yeah, but the thing that you have gotten rid of is maybe actually the whole reason for doing it in the first place, which was the fact that you get to hang with people. I've seen it with this show. You know, when I started this, it was on my own. After 15 episodes, Dean Editor joins. We're now a thousand episodes late. You'll be episode 1030 or something like that. And so much of it especially because a big ascendancy was around Covid and sort of the working from home revolution. So much of it's just been us solo degenerating our way through, like, caffeine and bedroom offices, and you go, oh, it's cool that you can do it lean, but it's probably more fun if you actually do it as a group. And that realization might. Might sound kind of obvious, but it took me a little while to realize.

Judd Apatow (53:15)

Yeah. And especially with those two, the audience loves them and they're good guys, and so they're. And that's the thing they bring onto the stage. And so they could talk about difficult subject matter. They know when you're goofing because, you know, there's a lot of people, they want to see the edgiest stuff because life is so crazy. And they like the comedians to just pop the pressure on it all and to say the thing you shouldn't say or to, like, acknowledge how insane it all is through their jokes. And some of it, you know, if you wrote it down, you'd be like, what? What does that mean? But there's another message which is like, we're here together, consoling each other, that the world feels really up right now. And so there's other levels to it that are really important. And I always say that people have different tastes. You know, some people. Some people love country music. Some people like you know, heavy metal, and there's a place for all of it. I think that in the modern culture, one of the big issues of the Internet and social media is it's kind of made everyone feel like we're all supposed to like everything. Where in the old days, I feel like, say. Say you're into a band and there were these bands that weren't that popular, but the people who liked them, love them. They were just obsessed with this band that maybe sold 20,000 records and that was fine. But I feel like in the modern age, people would go, they're not successful. Where that used to not mean the same thing. There was more alternative culture because you're not supposed to like all the comedians. You're supposed to pick the one you like. Maybe you like the clean comedian, maybe you like the filthy comedian, but. But I feel like the people like the clean comedian might be mad at the filthy comedian. And so hopefully that's changing. But I think that is what throws people because you're being fed it. Like, maybe you wouldn't have ever seen that comedian if it didn't show up in your feed. But in the old days, nothing was fed to you. You'd had to seek it out.

Chris Williamson (72:18)

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