Modern Wisdom Podcast Episode #855: Richard Reeves - Why Do Modern Men Feel So Left Behind?

Host: Chris Williamson
Guest: Richard Reeves, Writer, Researcher, Founder of the American Institute for Boys and Men
Podcast Description: Life lessons from the greatest thinkers on the planet with Chris Williamson, featuring guests like David Goggins, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, and more. Understanding the world is hard. This podcast will help.

1. Introduction and Endorsement

• Timestamp [00:00-01:07]
  • Chris Williamson (Host): Introduces Richard Reeves and highlights key topics such as Obama endorsing Reeves' book and alarming trends in male suicide.
  • Richard Reeves (Guest): Expresses surprise and gratitude for Obama's endorsement, noting the gradual acceptance of men's issues in mainstream conversations.

2. Growing Acceptance of Men's Issues

• Timestamp [01:07-03:08]
  • Reeves: "Barack Obama thinks the book's worthy of reading, it just helps to sort to take a little bit of the heat out of it. But I would just say that's one of the perhaps most prominent examples of a general sense that the temperature around this conversation has gone down."
  • Discussion: Reeves recounts how his book was initially rejected in 2020 for being too controversial but later gained significant recognition, indicating a slow but steady increase in societal openness to discussing men's struggles.

3. Challenges in Discussing Men’s Issues

• Timestamp [03:08-06:49]
  • Reeves: Highlights the difficulty of advocating for men without being stereotyped as misogynistic. He states, "I hate having to temper my talking points to avoid being pattern matched as a misogynist."
  • Chris: Shares his frustrations with being mislabeled and having to balance discussions about men's and women's issues, emphasizing the zero-sum view of empathy where supporting one group is perceived as neglecting another.

4. Media Representation and Stereotyping

• Timestamp [06:49-12:23]
  • Reeves: Discusses how media often portrays men's issues through a negative lens, making it harder for advocates to gain support without facing backlash.
  • Quotes: "It's like the more extreme sides of the pro-men conversation aren't always coming at it from a place of well balanced. Do you care about men or do you just hate women?"

5. Institutional Barriers and Strategic Communication

• Timestamp [12:23-21:11]
  • Reeves: Explains the strategic steps taken to present his institute as credible and non-partisan, despite initial perceptions of conservatism due to its name.
  • Chris: Applauds Reeves' intentional approach to reduce the "temperature" around men's issues, enabling more open and productive conversations.

6. Importance of Goodwill and Presumption of Intent

• Timestamp [25:07-32:20]
  • Reeves: Emphasizes the need for empathy and assuming good intentions in dialogues about men's issues. "I've come to value almost above anything else in an interaction with someone is the presumption of goodwill."
  • Chris: Introduces the concept of an "accuracy budget," advocating for understanding and tolerance of imprecise discussions when tackling complex issues.

7. Framing Solutions and Positive Conversations

• Timestamp [32:20-44:29]
  • Reeves: Advocates for fact-based, solution-oriented discussions instead of solely focusing on problems. Suggests initiatives like encouraging more men into teaching and technical high schools.
  • Chris: Agrees, highlighting the importance of positive messaging in facilitating change and reducing negativity fatigue among listeners.

8. Establishing the American Institute for Boys and Men (AIBM)

• Timestamp [44:29-57:17]
  • Reeves: Details the formation of AIBM to address institutional gaps in research and advocacy for boys and men. "We need to institutionalize this."
  • Challenges: Recruiting women to work at AIBM due to preconceived notions associating the institute with conservatism. Reeves notes, "We have only one woman on our team so far."

9. Suicide Trends and Male Wellbeing

• Timestamp [57:17-75:00]
  • Reeves: Presents alarming statistics on male suicide rates, particularly among young men. "The suicide rate among men under the age of 30 now is higher than among middle-aged men."
  • Discussion: Explores factors contributing to rising suicide rates, including feelings of unneededness and societal pressures. Introduces the "sedation hypothesis," linking increased drug poisonings to men retreating from societal challenges.

10. Mental Health and Therapy for Men

• Timestamp [75:00-95:17]
  • Reeves: Critiques the mental health field for being less male-friendly, noting that surveys often miss male-centric struggles like externalizing behaviors. "The surveys capture internalizing behavior but not externalizing behavior."
  • Solutions: Highlights initiatives like "Men in Mind," which trains mental health professionals to better address male-specific issues, and advocates for more male representation in therapy professions.

11. Class and Labor Market Challenges

• Timestamp [95:17-157:25]
  • Reeves: Discusses the severe class disparities affecting men without college degrees, including stagnant wages and high rates of living at home.
  • Policy Recommendations:
    • Education System: Promote apprenticeships and vocational training to provide alternative pathways for men.
    • Labor Market Integration: Encourage men to enter growing sectors like healthcare and education, which are traditionally seen as female-dominated.
    • Support Structures: Develop policies that enhance men's roles in family and community, fostering a sense of neededness and purpose.

12. Neededness and Social Roles

• Timestamp [157:25-177:26]
  • Reeves: Introduces the concept of "neededness"—the fundamental need to feel valued and essential. Links this to higher suicide rates among men who feel surplus to societal requirements.
  • Discussion: Explores how shifting societal roles have diminished traditional sources of neededness for men, unlike the expanding roles and support systems available to women. Emphasizes that enhancing men's sense of neededness can improve mental health outcomes and societal stability.

13. Media Representation and Double Standards

• Timestamp [177:26-End]
  • Reeves: Criticizes media narratives that misrepresent suicide statistics, often portraying it as a crisis primarily affecting women while neglecting the higher suicide rates among men. Calls out misinformation and advocates for accurate, empathetic reporting.
  • Chris: Agrees, sharing anecdotes and emphasizing the importance of separating analysis from justification to foster understanding rather than stigma.

Key Takeaways:

• Growing Awareness: There's a gradual increase in societal recognition of men's struggles, but significant challenges remain due to stereotypes and media misrepresentation.
• Suicide and Drug Poisoning Rates: Alarming increases in male suicide rates, especially among young men, are linked to feelings of unneededness and societal disconnection.
• Mental Health Infrastructure: The mental health field needs to become more male-friendly by training professionals to recognize and address male-specific issues.
• Policy Recommendations: Implementing vocational training, promoting men's entry into growing sectors, and enhancing men's roles in family and community can alleviate feelings of unneededness.
• Media Responsibility: Accurate and empathetic reporting on men's issues, particularly suicide statistics, is crucial to prevent misinformation and stigma.
• Neededness: Fostering a sense of neededness among men is essential for improving mental health outcomes and ensuring societal stability.

Notable Quotes:

• Richard Reeves [01:23]: "The book came out in 2022. And so when his 2023 list came out, everybody... I didn't make it. I wasn't surprised."
• Reeves [06:49]: "I hate having to temper my talking points to avoid being pattern matched as a misogynist."
• Chris Williamson [25:02]: "The presumption of goodwill, 100% and the belief that even if you get it wrong, I don't think you're getting it deliberately wrong."
• Reeves [57:17]: "The suicide rate among young men in the US has risen by a third since 2010."
• Reeves [76:07]: "The US doesn't do apprenticeships. It just doesn't do vocational training, anything like other countries."
• Reeves [157:25]: "Having opted out of the labor market one way other then you might more likely be doing those other things instead."

Further Resources:

• American Institute for Boys and Men (AIBM): aibm.org
• Substack - Of Boys and Men: Accessible via AIBM's website
• Books Mentioned:
  • "Lessons from the Greatest Thinkers" by Richard Reeves
  • "The Noonday Demon" by Andrew Solomon
  • "Dreams Hoarders" by Richard Reeves

Note: This summary omits advertisements and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussion between Chris Williamson and Richard Reeves regarding the challenges faced by modern men.