#857 - Ryan Long - DEI Wars, Trump's Bible & The Masculinity Vote

Summary

Modern Wisdom Episode #857 - Ryan Long: DEI Wars, Trump's Bible & The Masculinity Vote

Host: Chris Williamson
Guest: Ryan Long
Date: [Insert Date]
Duration Covered: 00:00 – 1:51:11

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1. Introduction

Chris Williamson welcomes Ryan Long, a comedian, writer, and filmmaker, to discuss the current cultural landscape filled with humor, politics, and societal trends. They set the stage for a deep dive into topics ranging from DEI backlash to bizarre online trends and the impact of American politics on global media.

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2. Creativity vs. Hard Work & Type A/B Personalities

Key Discussion: Ryan and Chris explore the limitations of hard work in fostering creativity, especially for Type A individuals who often correlate success with relentless effort.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Long [02:13]: "Hard work, you can't always just hard work your way out of a problem ... adding creativity into that is even worse."
• Chris Williamson [04:32]: "But you've usually, a lot of times you've maxed that out."

Insights:

• Creativity often requires mental rest and restructuring rather than sheer effort.
• Type A personalities may struggle to adopt strategies that prioritize creative thinking over productivity.
• Ryan suggests that Type A individuals benefit from "restharder than me," emphasizing the need for relaxation to stimulate creative connections.

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3. DEI Backlash and Corporate Response

Key Discussion: The conversation shifts to how companies are retracting their support for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives due to right-wing pressure, leading to a "not gay enough" or "too gay" dilemma.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Williamson [24:05]: "Companies are either getting in trouble at the moment for being too gay or not gay enough."
• Ryan Long [25:29]: "They were just like, if you want to get a lot of clicks."

Insights:

• Major corporations like Toyota, John Deere, Harley Davidson, and others are scaling back their DEI efforts to appease backlash.
• This rollback creates an environment that is not fully inclusive, as highlighted by the backlash from platforms like Pink News.
• The tension exemplifies how companies navigate the increasingly polarized social climate, often prioritizing short-term public relations gains over long-term inclusivity.

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4. Bizarre Trends in Online Pornography

Key Discussion: Ryan Long introduces unusual trends in pornography, such as adult breastfeeding porn in India and tickling porn among Japanese men, discussing their cultural underpinnings and societal implications.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Williamson [37:37]: "In India, Google searches for breastfeeding porn are higher than anywhere else in the world."
• Ryan Long [42:05]: "Japanese men have recently become obsessed with tickling porn."

Insights:

• These trends may reflect deeper cultural dynamics, such as the role of overbearing maternal figures in India and the childlike cultural elements in Japan.
• Ryan posits that certain fetish trends may act as "gateway drugs" leading to more extreme content.
• The discussion highlights how cultural norms and societal pressures can shape and manifest in unexpected ways within online communities.

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5. Impact of Algorithms on Content Consumption

Key Discussion: The duo delves into how algorithms influence the type of content users consume, often perpetuating extreme or sensational material to maximize engagement.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Long [34:14]: "The algorithm's like, oh, that's your shit. So it's like that's all you get now."
• Chris Williamson [54:52]: "The algorithm moves your preferences, it nudges your preferences to make you easier to predict."

Insights:

• Algorithms not only predict but also shape user preferences, creating a feedback loop that can limit exposure to diverse or nuanced content.
• The emphasis on engagement metrics like view duration leads to an overabundance of sensational and repetitive content.
• Both agree that breaking free from algorithm-driven content requires conscious effort to diversify information sources.

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6. Stand-up Comedy and Creativity

Key Discussion: Ryan Long and Chris Williamson discuss the challenges comedians face in maintaining creativity while adhering to audience expectations and the algorithms that favor volume over quality.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Long [08:04]: "If you want to have 10 ideas every day, they're not going to be good or they're going to be borrowed."
• Chris Williamson [53:25]: "Do you think that you're trying to make someone like you?"

Insights:

• Comedians must balance generating a high volume of content with ensuring each piece maintains a high standard of quality.
• The pressure to produce frequently can stifle genuine creativity, as comedians may resort to recycling or borrowing jokes.
• Effective comedy relies on a few standout ideas rather than a plethora of mediocre ones, aligning with Ryan’s experience of spending extensive time refining jokes.

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7. Politics and Media Influence

Key Discussion: The conversation navigates the complexities of American politics, particularly the Trump campaign’s media strategy, the role of mainstream media endorsements, and the polarized political environment's impact on public discourse.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Williamson [66:08]: "If someone comes up to you on the street asking invasive sex questions, don't be so quick to brush them off. You might just end up interviewing a president."
• Ryan Long [72:05]: "Polymarket gives a 4% chance that he'll eventually join the Hawk Tour."

Insights:

• Media strategies are increasingly reactionary, capitalizing on the Trump phenomenon to drive engagement even as it may not contribute to substantive political discourse.
• Mainstream media outlets like The Atlantic and Scientific American make rare endorsements that reflect broader media pressures rather than genuine shifts in ideology.
• The rise of “undecided” voters is questioned, suggesting many of them might be unregistered or apathetic rather than truly undecided, impacting campaign strategies.

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8. Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Key Discussion: Ryan and Chris reflect on the evolution of culture, the cyclical nature of trends, and the importance of maintaining authenticity and creativity in a hyper-commercialized and algorithm-driven world.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Long [86:38]: "Friend grandmother treatment is gay best friend. That's basically what you're trying to position yourself as."
• Chris Williamson [53:25]: "How can you make this queue look longer?"

Insights:

• The "barber pole" analogy illustrates how societal layers attempt to mimic higher statuses, perpetuating ongoing cultural cycles.
• Maintaining authenticity requires navigating societal pressures and resisting the urge to conform purely for popularity or engagement.
• The importance of leaving audiences with a strong, memorable end aligns with the "peak-end rule," enhancing the overall impact of any performance or interaction.

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Notable Discussions and Anecdotes

• Advertising Breaks: Various product endorsements like AG1, True Classic, and Magic Spoon are interspersed throughout the episode, offering listeners promotional information.
• Comedy Insights: Discussions on joke structure, audience engagement, and the psychological aspects of comedy performance.
• Cultural Observations: In-depth analyses of how specific cultural trends emerge and their broader societal implications.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Ryan Long provides a multifaceted exploration of modern societal dynamics, from the constraints of Type A personalities on creativity to the intricate dance companies perform in response to DEI backlash. The conversation extends into the bizarre realms of online pornography trends and the pervasive influence of algorithms on content consumption. Through the lens of stand-up comedy, they dissect the challenges of maintaining originality in a crowded digital space. The discussion also critically examines the state of American politics and its entanglement with media strategies, highlighting the polarized environment that shapes public discourse. Ultimately, the episode underscores the importance of authenticity and thoughtful engagement in navigating an increasingly complex and superficial cultural landscape.

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Listeners who missed the episode can catch up on Ryan Long's latest comedy special and explore more insightful discussions on Modern Wisdom with Chris Williamson.

Transcript

[Chris Williamson]

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Ryan Long. He's a comedian, writer and a filmmaker. The world feels like a comedy goldmine right now. From the upcoming election and DEI backlash to bizarre trends like Japanese and Indian fetish porn, P. Diddy conspiracy theories, Hocktour memes and Florida men doing Florida man things. Obviously we need an expert like Ryan to help make sense of everything. Expect to learn why companies that embrace DEI are rolling back their support the hottest Google search trends when you type my husband wants in Japanese men's recent obsession with tickle porn. Ryan's thoughts on Kamala and Trump making the rounds on podcasts and much more. People of Australia, I'm flying to your country this week. I may be in the air right now as you're listening to this and you can come and see me on stage next week. Brisbane is completely sold out but Melbourne on Friday 8th November and Sydney on Saturday 9th November still have tickets. VIP is sold out at both venues but you can still get general access. It's going to be awesome. I'm going to be on stage with James Smith. I will be inside of you for the first time ever Australia. Then you can come and watch and see James as well. Anyway, go to ChrisWilliamson Live Australia to get your tickets now. But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Ryan Long.

[Ryan Long]

I probably would never do this on a podcast, but I made a couple notes of things I'm going to say. Oh because, yeah, well because you know, you're probably one of the most people that you kind of remind me of, you know, some of my like closest friends in home where it's always like trying to get to the bottom of something, you know what I mean? So I felt like I have a good couple good theories that oh I fucking love this.

[Chris Williamson]

You came prepared.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. Also. Well I've, we've talked about this already but I said your stuff that you post a lot of times feels very much directed for me. Like I'm the exact like you know, I'm the one target audience being seen.

[Chris Williamson]

What was the, what was one of the ones that that's happened with probably.

[Ryan Long]

The most ever is cuz the idea that you know, hard work, you can't always just like hard work your way out of a problem and I think you know, you become so accustomed to this is how I, you know, excel over people and then you're like well everyone's talented at a certain level and then also these problems aren't that. And then on top of that Adding creativity into that is like even worse. Right. Because in some. Sometimes standup, it's like it, it almost feels silly when I'm just like, what might be the work is like, you need to just like sit there and think. You.

[Chris Williamson]

Yep. Stare at the ceiling for a while. Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

You're like, this is crazy, right? Yep.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. So. But you have to. And you're like, well, how do you. Like, how do you rationalize all those things of like, I'm trying to work hard, but at the same time, this isn't a problem that just require. Requires more work.

[Chris Williamson]

I think creativity is one of these really unique domains that sits outside of like. There's very few problems in life that working harder won't make a bit better somehow.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

But one of them.

[Ryan Long]

But you've usually, a lot of times you've maxed that out, I guess.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. You're already foot to the floor going as hard as you can.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. That's not the issue. You're not like lazy. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

So I've been trying to write this for ages and I'll see if this makes sense to you. So I've been thinking about, you know, type A people and type B people. So people that are sort of insecure overachievers that work too hard, and then the sort of lazy people that to get off the couch been really trying to sort of work this out. So type A problems, Type B problems. I think type A people have a type B problem and type B people have a type A problem. Insecure overachievers need to learn how to chill out and relax, and lazy people need to learn how to work harder and be disciplined. Given that you subscribe to me, I'm going to guess you're a type A person, a kind of walking anxiety disorder harnessed for productivity. As Andrew Wilkinson says, type A people get no sympathy because a miserable but outwardly successful person always appears to be in a much more preferential position than a type B person. Being lazy but on the verge of bankruptcy. Goggins and Hormozi style advice reliably makes everyone more successful in the only way that you can get judged outwardly. But there aren't many issues in life which can't be solved by just working harder a little bit. So everyone just smashes it with a hammer. But for a certain perhaps minority cohort of people, they actually need to hear the opposite. We need like a parasympathetic Goggins, like hashtag restharder than me. And that's the creativity piece.

[Ryan Long]

I'd probably even go a little further than that, where if you are a type A person, you're not going to respond to the idea of like, well, you just need, you just need to be more like you. You need a reason. Yeah, you need a reason.

[Chris Williamson]

You need.

[Ryan Long]

So I think, and I think the reason is if you were like, to really boil it down, it was that the like, great ideas come from, you know, making connections between things and you need the. And so a lot of times you're building those like, connections in your brain that you could now like use. Whereas a of times you're out of connection, so you're kind of, you know what I mean? So your brain, it's not just you need to like rest, it's that you need to, you know, rejig your inputs and like centralize them. But then again, you know, there was kind of a, you know, in this stuff, which I, again, not to keep complimenting you, obviously we're friends, but like I, whatever this is, you do, I think you're one of the best at.

[Chris Williamson]

Thank you.

[Ryan Long]

Whatever you call it.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, talking.

[Ryan Long]

But there, there's kind of like, when you're talking about the amount of like connections that you can have. That's why in a lot of ways, like the smartest people aren't good at creativity some ways, I think. So if you talk about, you know, why are, why are like the best comedians in the world not just the smartest people, okay, for example, or the best artists a lot of times. And you know, obviously you could say, well, it's because, you know, there's better options available to them and whatever. Right. But still though, you know, there'll be, there's people that we probably know, mutual friends. They're like, you go, there are two people and you go, this is the smarter one and this is the guy's funnier. So it's not just career wise. Right. And I think the reason is, is in a lot of times it sits at, you know, like 120 to 140 IQ or probably like a lot of times top comedians are created creative people and you know, there's probably some smaller, less IQ ones. But the reason is at a certain level, the more connections you have in your brain, you need to make shortcuts because it's exponential. Right. So if you're 20 smarter or 40% smarter, that's actually not 40% more connections. That's, you know, 8,000 times however many maybe. And at that level of connections it starts to, you know, multiply in a way that you're not by millions more connections. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

What would you say to the type a person listening that wants to become more creative? Like, you work hard, even though it might not seem like it from the outside, even though you might seem like you're like sort of just.

[Ryan Long]

I think the first step is to understand, like, whether that actually is the goal.

[Chris Williamson]

Do you think be creative?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, because I think some people probably, you know, think they want to be creative and they're like, well, you actually don't. There's so much like, sacrifice for that. You know what I mean? It's like sexier, but it's also less like financially and every other way rewarding in general. You know.

[Chris Williamson]

That's interesting. I. I agree with you. And I do think that the, like, hard work, the creativity being sexy because it seems like, I know you're aloof, you're an artist, you know, you're like fucking Salvador Dali with the twirling his mustache. But there's another bit, I think, where everyone prays at the altar of the goggins, the Jocko, the 4:30am kettlebell swings and stuff. And I've never heard any of those guys talk about where they like, embrace the muse from. I'm not hearing jocko talk about, like, you know, my creativity spoke down to me from above as I went for a slow walk through a meadow. Like, that's not. I'm not hearing that. So I think that there is a real place for the conversation about creativity. Where does sort of artistic inspiration come from? Coming up with solutions that aren't more of the same, but are genuinely novel and different to the problem that you've maybe been facing for ages.

[Ryan Long]

Especially when you're talking about content, though, because that's the other part about it is like, creativity, really, for a lot of people that are running businesses where they're putting out tons of content, like, you know, there's that kind of. I think James Aldrich had, like, a really good point about Jim Cramer, where he was kind of like, you know. No, people joke about him being, like, wrong a lot and they've got the index. But he was like, he was a really good. He was really good at being, you know, a hedge fund manager and he was like one of the top guys. It's like, yeah, but, you know, Warren Buffett has three ideas a year. You know what I mean? Where it's like, if you got to have 10 ideas every day, it's like, well, they're not going to be good or they're going to be borrowed.

[Chris Williamson]

Yep.

[Ryan Long]

Which is Kind of, you know, like, I think, you know, a lot of times I'll, you know, when I'm doing standup, I'll be like, okay, let me. I'll spend, you know, maybe two full days kind of, like, thinking. And I have a lot of systems that I'll do. I'll be like, okay, go through these words, and I go through old stuff. Then I kind of hear what. I have, whatever weird systems that I have to do, and I'm like, at the end of that week, if I have, like, two really good ideas, that's a lot.

[Chris Williamson]

It's so cool.

[Ryan Long]

And some people are like, oh, I have eight, eight, 80 things to say a day. You're like, well, okay, you didn't make them up.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes, they've been adapted by somebody else. They're straight stolen from somebody else. I mean, it's cool. In any industry, I think, where you get paid for the quality of your ideas, not the volume of your ideas. So, I mean, I know that you can't just tell one joke and walk off stage. So there is, like, a volume component, but really what people are looking for. I mean, how long did Rogens last? Special? From his. From special to special, it's like six years or something. Right. So he does it. And obviously, yeah, it's like a luxury.

[Ryan Long]

Position in some ways.

[Chris Williamson]

He can do what he wants. But still, I don't even.

[Ryan Long]

Just him. I mean, it's a luxury position in some ways to. Yeah, because it's. I guess, to some degree, I kind of have heard people say that, but some of you're like, duh. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, I'd rather be paid for my one good idea.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. Yeah. Than of bad ones.

[Ryan Long]

But you're like, how do you get there? Your new special, you have to be insanely leveraged, essentially.

[Chris Williamson]

Correct. Yeah. So what you're doing is you're looking to get paid for the quality of your ideas, not the quantity of your ideas, and also to have a really good idea give you a huge return, which is the Buffett approach. Right. I think it's like. I don't know. I think some absurd amount of his net worth, percentage wise, has come from, like, five decisions. It's less than 10 decisions. Coca Cola was one of them, I think Apple was another one of them. Something else. Something. And he. Yeah, that's the position.

[Ryan Long]

But to go back to your original point then. So now in, like, people making content and all this stuff, like, what is that? You know, it's the guy running the company. That's who it is. You know what I mean? Who gets paid for his one big decision? Because the other thing, you're like, well, yeah, you could. Like, there doesn't exist the only. You know, when you describe the, like, artist who kind of exists in terms of, like, every once in a while, he pops up with one great thing. Those people are all, like, legacy people that are left over from, like. Or not left over. They're still around from a different era where it was different.

[Chris Williamson]

You think that you need to grind more and sort of.

[Ryan Long]

Well, I guess there's, like, maybe in movie industry or books, there's people that kind of do that, but I don't even need to. It's just like. It's kind of, like, set up that way right now.

[Chris Williamson]

That's a really great point. Yeah, that it's just like, the game's.

[Ryan Long]

The game a little bit right now.

[Chris Williamson]

That's such a good point. The world really is sort of rewarding, the pace that people can pump stuff out at. And obviously, if it's total crap, it doesn't matter, but there's people who are prolific from their volume at, like, an okay quality way more than people that are prolific from their quality.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Like a pretty.

[Ryan Long]

Can you're like, 90% be really funny.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. What. There's another. The tension, obviously, between creativity and the quantity of your work is that you need to do quite a lot of reps or publications or tweets or writings or whatever it is, drawings of your thing to be able to determine what's good and what's not. Yeah. You have to take tons of shots at goal. I mean, unless you're some savant that was just gifted to play the guitar, like a. I don't know, a genius from birth or whatever. But. Yeah, but you need to write a ton of songs in order to work out that they're not good. And then you can create something which really is good, and then you can allow the creativity to sort of. No, now it speaks through me, and I can just be Rick Rubin and, like, you know, wear glasses, pop up, do something awesome, and off again.

[Ryan Long]

Even when you. You know that. That kind of. I was thinking that a lot in terms of, like, you know, the Dre, Kendrick Lamar, and Kanye west and kind of rappers or musicians that have kind of been around forever where you. You kind of are like, you know, they were. When you think of, like, a young virtuoso and why. You know, why is, like, a young person generally better than an older person at music? And it was like, like, well, because you're kind of a collection of a culture that you were like a part of. You know, in the start when you were in grades six or whatever. You're part of that music. So it's like you were a part of it right after you're older. It's, you know, you're not going to be very much a part of music culture is. You're not going to be have like, you know, you see the like intricacies of the fashion. You can kind of like study and analyze it, but you didn't like feel it. So I think ever when you talk about them being virtuoso. Yeah. The actual technical component, but the impact on culture component, it kind of feels like they have, you know, there's you. You're saying like, oh, you know, they just had it in them. But it's like. Well, not really. They were like came up at a time and they like processed that in a way to spit it. And they were able to be like part of what's happening next. But then how do they do it again? It was kind of like they almost just watch what's happening with the new one and then they go and sort of like pretend they're part of it.

[Chris Williamson]

That's a really good.

[Ryan Long]

That's why you have it now. They now I have an auto tune album now. I have this now.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, I suppose the first album can groundbreaking and super interesting. But by album four, are you reinventing it each time? No, it's the new people that are inventing something completely orthogonal.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And then you're repurposing what comes off that. Did you see that story that I found about Kanye west when he was writing. What was it? Betray the Throne, Enter the Throne. What was his fucking big album something the throne. Anyway, so Kanye was writing Fend Graduation. No, he was writing one of his big albums and apparently some guy went in to sit down and just watch him work in the studio and he had Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen in the studio with him. The fuck are Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen doing here? Kindly just turned around quick as a flash and went, they're my thermometer for what white girls like. True story. Fucking wild. But yeah, even then you have this guy who's super competent and has got this sort of illustrious history and some questionable politics and he is still outsourced. He's got this, you know, somebody in there that acts as like a finger on the pulsive.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, you become like a good barometer for where things are going.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

But like you weren't Actually part of it. Because it's not possible.

[Chris Williamson]

Correct?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. So I kind of feel like I try to have a grasp on those things so then they become not something that. Because things can like, piss you off where you're just, you know, for example, like the content thing, you're like, what? The fact that that's the way the game is or, you know, the fact that I feel like a lot of these things can start to irritate you because it maybe isn't the way you want it to be, but if you then you just become agnostic to things that are just. Well, that's how it is.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, I understand that, like, you can start to hate the game that you're being made to play, even though you sort of didn't want to do or you get resentful about the fact. Why is it like this? Why couldn't it be? You know, back in the fucking 80s when I could take all this time and I didn't have to create all of this stuff. I could spend fucking three weeks walking through a meadow coming up with an idea with Jocko and I get it. But you're right, I think that working out a way to sort of. This is the price of doing business at the moment.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

It's just the entry cost to being in the world at this time. And look at all of the advantages where I can frictionlessly post some awesome that reaches a few million people. But on the flip side of that, I'm going to have to be a bit of a like, content.

[Ryan Long]

And then also if you can address it, you're like, well, how do I now react to it? You know what I mean?

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. And call it out.

[Ryan Long]

I was kind of thinking about. So if you look at. There's kind of, you know, there's different times in culture where, you know, certain times where it's like, you know, probably like five years ago, there's a lot of things couldn't. It was hard to say things, you know what I mean? And it was very tense and there was, you know, kind of a lot of like truths to be said that weren't, you know, part of the public discourse. And then now it's kind of like all the stuff's been said.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

You know what I mean? And I was kind of thinking that if you look at what's, you know, a lot of people on the. In culture are. Right now it's following from the front, if that makes sense. Where they're. They're really like following. But if you think of like a mob of People. Because, you know, if to some degree there's, you know, the media is being like, okay, we care about this now, we care about this now. But to some degree, it is a little organic of whether, you know, whether, you know, this group of people likes this candidate or we care about this. Right. There is like organic directions of what, you know, movements go in. And then it's kind of about. People are like, in the people that, like, were leaders of the last one. It's like them running around trying to catch up and act like they were leading, you know, so there's almost like people acting like they're leading groups of people.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

But really it just kind of went there and then they, they kind of.

[Chris Williamson]

Run and then they get the front.

[Ryan Long]

They go, oh, yeah, we care about this now.

[Chris Williamson]

And then you. It's.

[Ryan Long]

I mean, I could think of like 20 examples, but there's so many people that they're following from the front. Louder.

[Chris Williamson]

That's a really fucking good insight that I hadn't considered. But you're right, it's a. It's the exact same. Good example might be in Pride Month every year where the organizations change their flags. Mercedes and Xbox and fucking Nike or whatever change to a pride flag. But they only change to pride flags in countries where gender, like sexual orientation equality has already been reached, of course. And in the Middle east, where it actually needs to be, work needs to be done on it. It's still the same. There's no change made at all. So that would be an example of like, following from the front where we're going to stake our claim and put the flag in the ground right here.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, we're acting like we're leaders of this movement.

[Chris Williamson]

It's already been. This has already been won. The place where it needs to be done is the place where you're like.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, it definitely happens a lot in that kind of, you know, that, that you know, media activism space, but it happens in everywhere. Yeah, you'll see, you know, like, you'll watch like the right wing movement of like, what's the thing they're all talking about now? Right? And then someone will be kind of, you know, out front being like, you know, leading the flag. And you're just like, you didn't talk about this two years ago. And it's like, well, why? It's like, well, you didn't lead them here, but you acting like you did.

[Chris Williamson]

The like, full horseshoe fucking infinity loop of the Bud Light conversation has been pretty interesting. I got in. I got in so much fucking. I got so much stick from people. When I said, all right, I get it, you know, Dylan Mulvaney, should she have he have got a fucking six pack of Bud Lights with the face on it? Probably bad move from a marketing department. But really, does this mean that Bud Light is infused to its very core with woke progressive ideals that show that they're the anti American communist country that you company that you always knew they were. Is that really the case or is it probably just some person, some intern somewhere that decided to do one thing and the right is always the we mustn't cancel people for one small slip up that seems like way too judgmental. This person didn't mean to say that. And you go, you're not extending the same luxury, the same sort of charity to this other side. And then I got shit for that. And then fucking a Post Malone and Shane Gillis sponsorship later. Everyone on the right now fucking what's his face the guy that shot it up with the 50.

[Ryan Long]

But they did a pretty good job of making the comeback fully.

[Chris Williamson]

Just fixed everything. The human Centipede did everybody. And you're like, oh, okay, so like somehow everyone's asshole is in everybody else's mouth and it just sort of loops all the way around. So stuff like that. It's like people are so prepared to. Even the outrage is like circular. They're prepared to be at the front of, well, actually being gracious with Bud Light. That's the position that we should take. How many people are still holding their feet to the fire now? No one.

[Ryan Long]

Well, yeah, there's almost like 100 things going on at once with the Bud Light thing, which you're right, it is a pretty good like case study of everything because I guess there was one part where, you know, the principled. There's. There's always kind of an argument to or like between, hey, are we trying to win or are we trying to, you know, have principles? And those things are almost always like go against each other. You know what I mean? Yes. Like in any political movement it's kind of like, are we trying to win? Then you're like, I mean with political movements it's always kind of like that's why they, they get sort of hijacked by cynical actors always because, you know, there's always just a bunch of energy there and then someone can take it and be like, well, I have some goal here. And then I guess so I don't think anyone was specifically outraged with Bud Light as much as they're like, well, here's the poster Child.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

And then I think there's like a rationalization where you can say where, well, they aren't going to realize what it's like unless we do it back to them. And you know, you, that can go on forever. But yes.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, I asked.

[Ryan Long]

But you go, you're not, you're not a political actor. Like, you're not running for office. You're not running a political movement. So you're like, why do I have to pretend I care?

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

Well, I asked your normal buddy. It's one thing. You go, I get your thing. You have a whole channel like telling people how to vote or whatever. But your normal person being like, don't you don't get sucked in.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. You don't need to be complicit as a normal dude on the street. You have enough stuff to worry about. There's a fucking.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, don't get sucked into their bullshit.

[Chris Williamson]

There's a hurricane outside. I asked Jeremy Boring, who's the CEO of Daily Y, and I asked Shapiro this as well. I was like, maybe similar to your leading following from the front thing, it's like a lot of what the platform of right wing sort of commentary has been over the last six years, seven years or so has very much been anti woke and that discouraged, it's been like reactionary. Here is a crazy new flag that's got 55 different colors. And here is a person that got jailed for bird scootering over a crosswalk that was put down with the pride flag on it and all the rest of it. That that very much was the position. But I think you're right. Over the last five years ago or so, the things that you couldn't say largely now most people are saying, most people I think were past peak woke were very much.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah, that stuff's, it's kind of gone.

[Chris Williamson]

But I was like, okay, so given that you guys have made so much of your platform off the back of this, are you worried that when most people probably agree with this, I think.

[Ryan Long]

There'Ll always be a space for just being like a meat and potatoes conservative commentator. You know what I mean? I think you look at some of those guys where you're just like, wait, what's that guy been? You know what? I don't know. Like, what's the guy like? I don't, I think not him, but like the Rush Limbaugh, the Glenn Beck to the world. You're like, oh yeah, remember that guy? You're like, remember that guy? He got 4 million viewers every morning, seven hours.

[Chris Williamson]

Over the span of about a year I tried pretty much every green drink that I could find to try and work out which one was best and I came across AG1 and have stuck with it for over three years because it is the best. It's the most comprehensive, it's the most highly tested, it's the most rigorously formulated of any green strength that exists. They genuinely care about holistic health, which is why I've got my mom to take it and my dad to take it and tons of my friends as well, and why I've put it inside of my body for over three years. And if I found anything that was better, I would switch. But I haven't, which is why I still use it. The formulation is built to improve your health, not just when you take it for one week, but when you use it every single day for years. And that is why I keep using it. If you're not sure, there's a 90 day money back guarantee so you can buy it and try it and if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. Right now you can get a year's free supply of vitamin D, 3K2 and 5 free AG1 travel packs plus that 90 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinkag1.com Modern Wisdom that's drinkag1.com Modern Wisdom, your new special taught me that and I think this is right. Companies are either getting in trouble at the moment for being too gay or not gay enough. That's the way that they exist. Too gay or not gay enough.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, there was a, there was a pretty good, there was a pretty good rip there where companies were having a hard time finding the perfect amount of gay to be.

[Chris Williamson]

As I found on that. I did a little bit of research. Toyota won't sponsor Pride events following backlash from an anti woke mob. So Pink News, which I think is like a gay website. In a memo sent to 50,000 US employees and more than 1500 dealerships, the company said the decision follows a highly politicized discussion around business commitments to dei, not sporting festivals and parades. According to Bloomberg, they're not participating in some other stuff and DEI and all of that, they're stopping all of that anyway. So I did a bit more digging and it turns out that there's a lot of companies that are sort of quietly rolling back their DEI efforts. And yeah, Pink News has big problem with this, but I can't imagine Pink News loves it. The choice of companies that they were getting outraged about rolling back Their DEI efforts. This is the best list.

[Ryan Long]

So this the list of not gay enough.

[Chris Williamson]

This is the list of not was too gay for their customers. Now not gay enough for pink news. But they highlighted that they could have done it, and they're in real shit. Okay, so this is a list of companies who have rolled back their DEI efforts because of right wing pressure and are not providing an inclusive working environment. John Deere, the tractor manufacturer.

[Ryan Long]

I saw the John Deere hustle bustle.

[Chris Williamson]

Jack Daniels, Harley Davidson, Ford Lowe's, Molson, Coors and Stanley, Black and Decker. I'm like, you couldn't have picked a list of less gay companies to be angry about. The.

[Ryan Long]

I think Harley Davidson was actually doing some stuff.

[Chris Williamson]

What were they doing?

[Ryan Long]

I don't know exactly, but I think they were just. A lot of. It is kind of that there was a moment where, you know, if you look at it like stocks, right? There was a moment where there was like an arbitrage opportunity where a lot of these companies were like, you know, we can make money by pandering to this. It's an easy way to get clicks. The problem is if you stay in those waters for too long, before you know it, you have actual people in your company that believe it. Or it's like, you know, at the top you're just like, oh, this is. Yeah, okay, this is what you do to get press or whatever. And they probably don't give two shits. And then. Yeah, but if you're in that for four years, you have turnover nets. Like, now you have 35% of people. And also you have to, you have to sell the bullshit to the company.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

And then you're like, well, guess what? Now they all believe it. So you can't. When it's, when it's no longer an arbitrage opportunity and you're like, cool.

[Chris Williamson]

You've got to, you've got this like, fucking.

[Ryan Long]

There's no value in it, like, monetarily for a company. Well, now what do you do? How do you, how do you back out of it?

[Chris Williamson]

It just blows my mind that those were the. This was like the vanguard of the issue of we can't believe that these companies aren't supporting LGBTQ rights. I'm like, john Deere, really? Is that the tip of the spear?

[Ryan Long]

They probably had, you know, a lot of these companies. I, I've seen this a lot in television. Like, I've, you know, worked in television a lot where it's like, like there's. And especially you'll talk to, you know, a Lot of people that are higher up and they're like, you know, we're not about this life. But they, you know, they kind of hired some hip new marketing team and the marketing team's like, this is what you do. You post all this stuff and they're kind of right at that time, they're like, if you want to get a lot of clicks. And now I think people have a little bit of a difference between like, what's a good click and a bad click, you know what I mean? Whereas before you're like, hey, I did your ad campaign, it has 18 million views and you go, well, if you look under it, you'll see that that's most people saying they hate us.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, I wonder if the Bud Light thing has kind of highlighted to companies that caving into pressure that they're then going to have to go back on. I think Gillette is still kind of out in the wings, I don't think.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, caving into pressure is being generous because I would say it is like, you know, being vultures trying to, you know, be able to cash in on this little energy that's in this social movement.

[Chris Williamson]

Sort of predestining the.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, I don't, I don't think they're innocent in this.

[Chris Williamson]

Right.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, I think it was like, you know, I mean we have people and you're in this industry, I'm sure you see all the time where you know, like some, like something is like a trend and there's people that sort of like address the trend but stay themself. And then there's certain people that are trying to like really cash it in. And you can see that I'm just.

[Chris Williamson]

Waiting for Russia to do $10 million check. Yeah, I'm still fucking dude. Tenant Media, where are you at? Come, come and pay me. I thought Lauren Chen had my number, but yeah, it's. I, this is, I spoke about this on the show a couple of weeks ago. We got this email through just the general contact form on the, on my website that said we want to pitch this person to come on the show and we're willing to pay a six figure sum to bring them on. And the topics that we would like to discuss and the fucking list of topics were all like oil prices in the Middle East. This is some Saudi deep state conspiracy bullshit. And yeah, it's fine. It's funny man.

[Ryan Long]

I mean that would, you know what, that would be funny though, if you ever want to do it, is have those people on and then allow us to do like a prank show thing with them. Like, have the people on that are paying 100 grand and they give them 100 grand back after. But, like, have them in and like, prank them where we're not doing any of the stuff.

[Chris Williamson]

Have you been watching? Who's that guy? No, Captain on God.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, I know that guy.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. Fuck me. He is so good at what he does. I mean, you have this like on street thing. I can't do it. My cringe meter, my British cringe meter just goes through the roof. Even second.

[Ryan Long]

It's very British.

[Chris Williamson]

It is. Thank you. It's very prim and proper, but it goes through the roof. Watching you do your thing where. What was it that you were walking through Times Square asking people to donate money to Trump's legal fund?

[Ryan Long]

Oh, I had a while where I was. I had a bunch of different, like, funds I was going to be able to donate to. I tried to get that. I want to do one where I was like, did Alex Jones legal fund. Then I did Trump's legal fund. And then I did. Tucker Carlson was making a doc Hillary in liberal lies. And I was asking you. But the Trump one. Yeah, the Trump one. I was telling people in New York, I said that they have a chance. They get entered into a raffle to win a chance to go to lunch with Barron Trump. They're like. And she goes, I would never want to go to lunch with Baron Trump. I'm like, well, it's not a guarantee you're going to win. It's so funny. Yeah, I think you're getting ahead of yourself.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. It's not guaranteed. Those on street interviews are for me. I love watching them, but I can't deal with them. And the dude from no Cap on God. Lionel. Lionel, I think is his name is fucking sweet. Did you see that Trump had his own line of Bibles? Do you see this story? Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

He's got a lot of fucking wacky stuff.

[Chris Williamson]

He's got. He's got it all.

[Ryan Long]

Shoes, Bibles.

[Chris Williamson]

It turns out that Trump's God Bless the USA Bibles were made in China. The official Bibles of Donald Trump were printed in China has been revealed thousands of copies of his God Bless the USA Bible printed in a country that the former president has repeated the accused of stealing American jobs. Jobs. Trump never said where they were printed or what they cost. A copy hand signed by the former president sells for $1,000. So, yeah, look, maybe they. Maybe you could offer one of the signed Bibles as well. Yeah, probably guarantee that.

[Ryan Long]

Dude, that was. I've actually been Talking about this on stage a bit that it is funny to me that Fox News can't get good commercials, so they just have to sell junk to old people. And Rumble has that a little bit. But you know, Fox, CNN's always like, you know, McDonald's and the most multicultural family of all time enjoying a bag of Doritos. As in combos. You don't even see like Asian guy, black woman, Indian son. No stereotypes in this house. The Asian and the woman are both really good drivers. Just you never see. Right. And then you go to Fox News, they're like, rise up, patriots. This is. This is a shrapnel of 911 that is made into a. A bucket of Trump's come. But you know, this is a scab of off Ronald Reagan's arm when he was. But it's just like there was one where. Oh, this is what it was. This is what made me start. I think I was. I can't remember. It was Rumble or Fox or whatever, but I was watching something and it started out, the ad just pops up and I actually burst out laughing. Where it goes, Sleepy Joe doesn't want you to see this. And it's like a coin or something just out of the blue. Sleepy Joe doesn't want you to see this. I was dying. That's the funniest thing that is.

[Chris Williamson]

You are right that the like right wing adverts versus left wing adverts. Have you done a sketch? You must.

[Ryan Long]

I did a sketch a while ago and they did. And like a lot of the things have happened because I said they're selling Patriot water.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, yeah. There is actually. What's it called? Like patriot2o or some shit.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. The only thing they haven't done is Patriot air, where it's like air for Patriot.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, yeah. There's no. Immigrants have breathed this air in.

[Ryan Long]

Good air.

[Chris Williamson]

Fucking hell. The other, the other thing from your special that we need to talk about, you taught me that there is a YouTube niche of breastfeeding advice. And I didn't even know that this was a thing. I. I mean, I guess that you need advice for everything.

[Ryan Long]

I wish I didn't know it was a thing. Buddy. I hope you. I hope you're not in the situation. I am. Because the problem with the algorithms and this is. I've been saying this with, you know, I. I got on disability TikTok. Right. Which is. What do you jerk off to? So there's this guy, he just like rolls around, he's got no arms and legs and there's like A bunch of them. Right? And. And he's. This guy's. You're laughing. The guy's crushing. He's probably a bazillionaire right now, rolling into a bag of money. Right. But the thing is, the algorithm, it's so wild because you don't ask for it. But you know, if you were. I said, if you were walking around the street and there was a guy rolling around on this floor or like taking a shit in the alley, like, of course you would look more than you would just look at a normal person. And then the algorithm's like, oh, that's your shit. So it's like that's. That's all you get now. So if you want like. So now when I see any freak show content, I try to scroll as fast as I can.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay.

[Ryan Long]

But I guess they got me with the breastfeeding. They kept just a literal, like, you know, only fans check. Just sitting there, you know, fake baby. Oh, I don't know if I didn't mention that part in the special. They got fake babies too. So basically it's a loophole that you can be nude on Instagram if it's breastfeeding content.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay. Even if it's not a real child.

[Ryan Long]

Well, I don't know the logistics of the real or fake child because maybe you could say it's, you know, they're, it's educational, practicing.

[Chris Williamson]

It's a practice child.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. And you know, and they say it's for new mothers. That's why my special. I'm just like, yeah, it's 10,000 new mothers. That's who's watching this. But so they have basically fake babies now and then they. They're feeding this to me, man. I'm the demo that. I don't watch it anymore. They keep giving it to me. Like you did that one time, though. You love it.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, it's funny to love it. Whether or not it was like them activating a secret thing that you actually did want in the back of your mind.

[Ryan Long]

What, tits?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Well, yeah, fucking zany me. If I'm seeing a full out pair of tits on my timeline, I scroll a little slower. Fucking wacko.

[Chris Williamson]

I Remember reading the TikTok terms of service thing that was in some news article and they were talking about how the app is allowed to use the front facing camera to detect micro expressions.

[Ryan Long]

How would it.

[Chris Williamson]

They must have mapped the way that your face moves and then it's watching you looking and you see some of the. The breastfeeding.

[Ryan Long]

Oh, so if you go like that.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, yeah, but that's a reaction, right? So maybe that's good. Maybe that's. But I'm sure they've, like, what's the micro. The. The micro expression to breastfeed. Fake breastfeeding porn. Real breastfeeding porn to a fake baby? I guess, technically, I mean, yeah, whatever.

[Ryan Long]

You hacked the system. You figured out how to be nude on the Internet to get people to subscribe to your things and get views use. It's probably good, but. Yeah. The problem is now the algorithm is just. The whole thing's based on. Did you look at it for longer than you looked at the last thing?

[Chris Williamson]

This is now your thing. Hey, guess what this is. This is your entire identity.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. And. Well, that's. You know, it's one thing to be like, you know, you. You tricked me into having an algorithm full of boobs. It's a whole nother thing to be like. You tricked me at having a whole algorithm full of, like, guys whose faces are burned off.

[Chris Williamson]

Right. Or rolling around quadriplegics rolling around in bags of money.

[Ryan Long]

You know what? I try. I tried to hack my algorithm where I went and just. So my. I. My Facebook and my boy's cast page, so I only scroll through those and I loaded my thing up and I watched, like, only horse hoof tutorials. So now.

[Chris Williamson]

So now thinks you were a rancher.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And what are you still getting delivered?

[Ryan Long]

All of the majority of what I get now. I have, like, favorite hoof guys now and stuff like that. Like, I have. I literally, like, watch hoof content of a guy, just clean it off, and I'll be like. Like guys missing a spot. Like, Nate the hoof guy would never miss.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, exactly. He's nowhere near as good as Dry Creek, Dwayne.

[Ryan Long]

And then I got into horseshoes too, so I got. I got horses, cows, hoofs. So that's all I get right now. And actually, life's been better, right.

[Chris Williamson]

Ever since I pivoted from watching breastfeeding content to horse hoof cleaning content.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Everything's gone. Right? So I wanted to teach you about this book that I read a couple of years ago. The number one Google search in India that starts with the sentence my husband wants is, my husband wants me to breastfeed him. So porn featuring adult breastfeeding is higher in India than anywhere else in the world.

[Ryan Long]

Why is that?

[Chris Williamson]

In just about every country, nearly all Google searches looking for advice on breastfeeding is how to breastfeed a baby in India, Google searches looking for breastfeeding advice are equally Split between how to breastfeed a baby and how to breastfeed your husband.

[Ryan Long]

So I mean, it has to be. I know a guy who's into this. Have you met my buddy jj? He's a jj? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Chris Williamson]

Is he Indian?

[Ryan Long]

No.

[Chris Williamson]

He should be.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah. But it's. They have some messed up that he's got a, you know, overbearing Jewish mother. These freaking.

[Chris Williamson]

That he's got a Oedipus complex.

[Ryan Long]

So Indian dudes, I. Where I grew up in like right around Toronto, which is like huge Indian population. So a lot of people where I grew up with are Indian. I have relatives that are Indian. They do have a culture of a bit of an overbearing mother, I think. So India especially, like the boys are very like the golden child to the mom. So you know, to some degree gonna.

[Chris Williamson]

Be babied later in life as well.

[Ryan Long]

It's got to be related to, you know, obviously that has something to do with mom. Right? And maybe it's something to do with like. I think Indian people have that same like overbearing Jewish mother. Like overbearing Jew Indian.

[Chris Williamson]

I wonder why it's not. I don't know how much sort.

[Ryan Long]

And the dad. You're always going to get hurt real bad.

[Chris Williamson]

I don't know how much Jew breastfeeding porn there is. Definitely not between the hours of whatever it is, 6pm on a Friday. So this HuffPost person that was doing this, well then you know why the.

[Ryan Long]

Jewish people do it?

[Chris Williamson]

Why?

[Ryan Long]

Well, because milk's free.

[Chris Williamson]

You're awful. You're awful. So this HuffPost person put a search in. Put searched. My husband wants me. Top searches that came up. My husband wants me to breastfeed him. My husband wants me to abort our first baby. My husband wants me to sleep with other men. My husband wants me to.

[Ryan Long]

Wow.

[Chris Williamson]

My husband wants me to quit my job. And then a conservative person did it at HuffPost. My husband wants divorce, breast milk, oral all the time. Me to breastfeed him like this. Breastfeeding, I mean, oral all the time's.

[Ryan Long]

Not that crazy, I guess.

[Chris Williamson]

But that's four that came in as like third.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

After divorce and breast milk. Milk, it didn't even appear for the liberal person either.

[Ryan Long]

What's your theory as to why?

[Chris Williamson]

I don't know. The Indian things really. I wondered whether it was maybe something to do with the sacredness.

[Ryan Long]

You're from London. London's super high Indian population. Similar.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. The whole UK is pretty high sort of subcontinental stuff. But I wondered Whether it was something to do with, like, cows. Cow milk. The sacredness of cows saying their mom's fat? No, I thought it might be.

[Ryan Long]

You think it's the sacredness of cows? No, you're. That's not it.

[Chris Williamson]

No, evidently not. No, you. You've got to have a more sophisticated thought process. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Ask jj. I'm sure he might.

[Ryan Long]

I'm telling you, it's messed up mother stuff.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay, and what's it all of India, overbearing mothers. Just across the entire country.

[Ryan Long]

Well, not every. I mean, a lot of Indians. So I don't know if all of them are on the. On the breastfeeding searches.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, it's an.

[Ryan Long]

I'll tell you another thing. Okay, this is my other theory. That's like. You know how that's like being in defeat, like one above that in a sense where it's like, it's not. I'm not. Maybe I'm not that crazy yet. You know what I mean? In their mind, they're like, this is like, I'm this kinky dude, but it's, It's. You haven't fully crossed over into, you know, the craziest stuff.

[Chris Williamson]

So maybe this is like a dead animal necrophilia.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, maybe that's one of those things where it's like, India is getting into breastfeeding stuff and you're just like, oh, yeah, that was America 25 years ago.

[Chris Williamson]

Are you saying. Are you saying that it's a gateway drug?

[Ryan Long]

That's. That's my hypothesis.

[Chris Williamson]

Breastfeeding porn is a gateway drug into much more hardcore.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, this might be like a transitional period. You go, you check in on India seven years from now, you're like, that's not even in the top. Not even crack at the top 20.

[Chris Williamson]

It's like when they look at chimpanzees and stuff and they say it seems like chimpanzees are beginning to first use tools. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm watching them evolve in front of my eyes and it's the same thing, but with, like, degenerate porn for Indian people.

[Ryan Long]

Exactly. This might be a transitionary step, but I think it's also a transitionary step because of the mother stuff.

[Chris Williamson]

Right. I wonder what we're going to see in a few decades time. And we're going to be like sedimentary rock. We can just track the pornhub searches of all of the, like, everybody across the world and see who's out front that being said, Japanese men have recently become obsessed with tickling porn. More than 10% of Pornhub searches for young Japanese men are for tickling.

[Ryan Long]

That one, I really don't have a. I don't know Japanese guys. I know Indian people pretty well. I don't know the Japanese as well.

[Chris Williamson]

They want to be tickled. So that's all you need to know.

[Ryan Long]

I mean, if I was to guess, this is completely out of nowhere what.

[Chris Williamson]

You'Re saying, that this isn't a well researched opinion that you're about to put in front of us on the money. Okay.

[Ryan Long]

I feel like I'm tapped into the Indian culture.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay.

[Ryan Long]

Japanese stuff. My guess would be that Japanese culture is very childlike. You know, it's like if you look at all the, you know, they have the girls where it's hot and they're basically like, dressed like, you know, school girls. You know, it's school girls, the anime kids stuff. So if you think of, you know, that stuff being very popular.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, it's babying.

[Ryan Long]

Tickling is very cartoony.

[Chris Williamson]

Ah, I think you might be onto something there. That wasn't total dog. That was.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, that has to. If I was to make a connection between two things, it's the childlike, you know, fashion stuff versus, you know, that stuff. You know, you do, you do change your, you know, like I. You ever watch like a. A movie about, like, you know, like a place that's all not white people and, you know, whether that be like Asian or, you know, and then you leave that, like, let's say you watch the whole thing about fucking Jamaica or something, you leave that kind of being. Like, like, I think I'm into black girls. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it does change your. Whatever you're around, obviously change.

[Chris Williamson]

Like you're saying that you've got this, like, proximity, like, impact on what you're attracted to.

[Ryan Long]

That's for sure true. It's just the extent of which each person, it's, you know, that's just a nature nurture conversation. Right. And for every person, that's whatever percentage. But what chicks are into is for sure. Nature, nurture. There's got to be a split, right?

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. Well, I mean, you can't be into something.

[Ryan Long]

So if you're always just, you know, surrounded by like all of the imagery of hot chicks is them being like, like, you know, you, you.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, okay, that's interesting.

[Ryan Long]

Then you're just like, oh, yeah, like.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, that's this, that's this. That's the same thing about. Are you finding something that you're genuinely interested in from the algorithm or is it training you to be interested in what it wants you to click on?

[Ryan Long]

I know, and this is kind of, you know, the very negative parts about all of, like, algorithmic based, you know, art form. I mean, it's moving closer to, you know, no property law, China kind of thing. But the more important thing is, is that isn't a metric. So if you were a company, and I mean, you are a company, and if you said, okay, I did this thing, if you made a video and it got more views, right, and people watched it more, but most of them hated it, and no one, you know, signed up for your stuff, no one's, you know, you would consider that. Well, let's not move in that direction. Like, views is not your only metric. Their main metric is how long you watched it again. If I'm walking by and a guy is shitting on the street, I will probably look at that longer than a guy who's sitting in a chair doing nothing. I didn't prefer that. So that is inaccurate. And I'll tell you where it leads to is because I just stopped using the apps like that, okay? So TikTok's the most like that. And I, I know everyone. You know, the joke everyone always makes is they go. You go, I actually don't like that. And you go, sure. But it's based, you know, the algorithm knows you better than you do. It's like, well, sure, the same way that you go. If I, If I was sitting in my house and every day there was like the best food in the world or something healthy, you know, or the best tasting food or something healthy, or the hottest girl or, you know, someone that you're not going to get in trouble for sleeping with, you know, every day you would still want to make those. You would still. Eventually you would stop going to that room, you would stop going to that party. Like, you know, the same reason. So eventually I just kind of stopped using the apps that I go, I don't like this more. You go, yeah, technically you're like, good at, like, keeping me here longer. But that doesn't mean I like it more.

[Chris Williamson]

So there's a, you know, like, shows that.

[Ryan Long]

Here's a perfect example. Sorry to ramble on about this, but I, I stopped watching shows that forced, you know, there was a. Shows used to be kind of episodic, and then they realized, you know, when it went to the streaming model that we need to end everything with like a huge cliffhanger to Keep you involved. Right. I stop, I stopped watching shows like that. So I won't watch shows that are episodic because, yeah, I like can't go to sleep if I'm watching and it's like, I need to watch more episodes. It's like, yeah, but then I won't do it the next day.

[Chris Williamson]

Right.

[Ryan Long]

So you don't.

[Chris Williamson]

You can watch the entire thing to the series finale before you go to bed.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. You beat me. In the short term.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

But not in the long term. In the long term, I just exited the game. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

That's funny. In other news, this episode is brought to you by True Classic. True Classic tees have some of the highest quality T shirts, hoodies and jeans on the market. Without a premium price tag. The shirts fit incredibly well. They've got this awesome cotton elastane blend. They're loose around your midsection, but they're fitted around your arms and your chest as the weather starts to dip. Their long sleeved Henleys and waffle hoodies are perfect for layering and comfort. They've got over 4 million customers and 200,000 reviews backing them up. So you can rest assured that you are choosing quality. And best of all, they've got a hundred day guarantee. So if it's not right or if it wears a little too soon, they'll replace it for free. No questions asked. Right now you can save when you bundle multiple items together by going to the link in the description below or heading to trueclassic.com modern wisdom that's trueclassic.com modern wisdom so there's a law called Good Hearts Law. Parkinson's Law is work expands to fill the time given for it. It's why you hand your university assignment in the morning that it's supposed to be due. That's very true. Just keeps on expanding. But there's a one that's kind of similar called Goodhart's Law. Goodhart's Law says when a measure becomes an outcome, it ceases to be a good measure. So for instance, if you were to say, the measure that I want is the most number of email newsletter subscribers that I could get and that is the only thing I'm optimizing for. That's the outcome a measure. Email newsletter subscribers becomes the outcome that you optimize for, you would say, right, I'm going to post online that I'm going to give $10,000 to every person that signs up for.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Chris Williamson]

Then they don't get $10,000. What have you done Hooray. You've got all of these people to sign up for your newsletter. But that wasn't actually the outcome you wanted. It was just a measure en route to it. The outcome you wanted was I want a large list of people who are interested in what I do and want to hear from me and think about me positively and so on and so forth. And that's the same with talking about the content thing or the views thing or the optimizing for anything thing. It's the same as I want girls to like me, therefore I'm going to get as jacked as possible. You get super duper jacked, but you don't realize what the externality of that is going to be, which is just tons of fucking attention from men. Or if you owned a company, if you owned a company that was.

[Ryan Long]

I never found getting jacked helped at all one way or another. With women.

[Chris Williamson]

With getting men, I don't.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, with getting men it was. Did okay. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

No, I think you'd be surprised at how little of a difference it makes.

[Ryan Long]

I might have been. Might have been adverse for me. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

How jacked have you got? Thought.

[Ryan Long]

I think if I had a six pack, I think the like the knowledge that, you know, it sounds like a cope but I mean, you know, obviously it's different types of girls but like if in, you know, I played in, you know, bands my whole life and I've been in entertainment my whole life and been a comedian, touring comedian for 15 years. And I would say that the people that are around that scene, like I've never seen a correlation between the most jacked guy and the most girls. Like, you know, to, to a point. But I think that there's like a level of like, like cool, you know, nihilism that is negated by having a six pack.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, that's funny. I wonder how special that is to your particular industries of like Lothario.

[Ryan Long]

It depends on your skin. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Leather jacket wearing, 4am people.

[Ryan Long]

I probably, I probably especially depends on your body type too. But I think that like the skinny heroin version of my body types look like is more appealing than the jacked version to women.

[Chris Williamson]

You texted me something about that the other week. I was fucking pissing myself but that good Hudson thing. So imagine that you run a company and one of the measures that you want, you tell we need to drop the fraud rate in our company as much as possible. So you get customer support and you drill them. This is the most important metric. This is exactly what you're focusing on. Hooray. They managed to drive the fraud rate to essentially zero. Boo. What they actually do is treat every customer like a potential fraudster. That's not good. That's not actually what you wanted to achieve. So I think when you're looking at stuff like the pooping man on the street that you look at for a little bit longer, the equivalent of that on the Internet, what you actually end up realizing is, okay, I can make something that will cause people to look and may even accumulate an audience, but it's not the sort of audience that I want. What are they here for? Are they here for like the right reasons? What are their expectations around me? This is one of the things that you should always be scared about. If you ever do anything that blows up, even as a musician, like let's say that you make a song and this song's amazing, but it's like kind of a bit out there compared with what your usual stuff is and what you love to make. And you just experimented and had this crack and you go, I've just got 50% that's you now.

[Ryan Long]

I know that's you.

[Chris Williamson]

And you go, oh, fuck, I need to now play in that field. I made a like right wing country. That Oliver Anthony guy. Remember that guy?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Like, guess what? You're now like a political football for the rest of your music career.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Everybody cares about you and what you think to do with DC and the rich men north of Richmond and blah, blah. That might have just been. I don't think it was, but that might have just been one. He was like, I'm just going to have a crowd. I'll write a thing that's about like rich men that are kind of in the Washington, D.C. area. And you go, that's you now. That's your entire identity. So be careful doing that 1000%.

[Ryan Long]

I think the hardest part is like when you're trying to explain to other people your version of it. Because, you know, when you're trying to have employees or whatever, anyone else that's like working for you, it's like. Because you're basically describing an equation that's like this. If this. Right. You're saying like, if these. You could probably know the better wording for it. But if these criteria are satisfied, then this is the thing we're optimizing for. Right? But it's, it's. I feel like that's a very hard thing to like get people on board with. I had this like, I mean, a big huge thing that probably the, you know, and you can't have a million of them. But the big thing I always have that it's like, none of this matters if it isn't funny. Right. So I'm always like. And it's like, well, you said you want this and this and this. And it was like, yeah, none of that is. We don't even have any of those conversations, like, until it's funny.

[Chris Williamson]

Yep.

[Ryan Long]

So it didn't. Yeah. So it's. It's like having conversations like it. Doing things in the right order maybe is the answer.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, having a gate that you have to pass through. So if it's. Yeah. They're like, if this isn't funny, it doesn't matter how much money it makes, doesn't matter how much impact it has, doesn't matter how cool it makes me. If it's not funny, it doesn't get through the first. So there's a, like an ordinating principle kind of similar. Jeff Bezos and Musk supposedly have got one. Bezos is at Amazon was, does this make the customer experience better? And Musk's was, does this get us closer to Mars? So everything, all of the choices, doesn't matter how fucking cool it is. It doesn't matter how fast the Tesla is. It doesn't matter how much money it makes on Amazon Prime Day or Black Friday or whatever. Does this make the customer experience better? Does this get to go to closer to Mars? And if he doesn't get through that, is this funny? If it's not funny, doesn't matter.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, that's the base level of like.

[Chris Williamson]

It makes everything easier.

[Ryan Long]

And I think that that's why, you know, on stage it's easy because you're like, well, obviously, if it's not getting laughs, like, kill it. Well, maybe not kill it. Get it to the point where it's getting laughs. But you go, none of what. No matter how good I think this is, doesn't matter until that solved. You know, so that makes it easy.

[Chris Williamson]

If you think it's impactful, if you think that it's. It's like useful. If you think that it's cool for your career, if you think it's going to make headlines, if it's not funny, it doesn't get.

[Ryan Long]

I mean, it's like one of those things where, you know, it's like working at a magazine and you're kind of like, you, we have this amazing scoop, but it's about the boss's wife. It's like, well, it doesn't matter. They're not going to say yes. Yeah, you Know what I mean? You go, no, you don't understand how great this is. It was like, it doesn't matter. But it's. It's hard to.

[Chris Williamson]

I had this conversation with a guy called Stuart Russell who wrote this book Human Compatible. So the worldwide textbook on AI may still be the case, but it certainly was for a couple of decades, was written by this guy, Stuart Russell. Anyway, wrote this book and in it he taught me this really interesting thing about how the algorithm works. So the algorithm works in two ways. First way is that it finds content that you are likely to click on by getting better at predicting what you're going to click on. Right. That's kind of the way that everybody understands that the algorithm works. But there's a second way that it works as well, which is it moves your preferences, it nudges your preferences to make you easier to predict. So it's a bidirectional relationship.

[Ryan Long]

That's sinister.

[Chris Williamson]

Really. Sinister, yeah, that's a great word. And yeah. So one of the reasons that we talk here why is the Internet people.

[Ryan Long]

Hate unpredictability, but the Internet's so, like.

[Chris Williamson]

Polarized and, you know, these two camps don't talk to each other and all the rest of it. And you go, okay, like, maybe that's because of tribalism. Maybe it's because you're stating your in your opinions to everybody all the time. Maybe it's because we don't have time to have nuanced opinions and there's these sort of shows of loyalty to your own side and threat displays to the other. Or maybe it's the algorithm meaning that if I know you're far right, you're always going to hate click or love click on these two buckets of things. And if you're far left, you're going to do the opposite. Maybe it's. Maybe everybody is just being cucked by the algo and we've all been turned into these sort of easily predictable, like preference engines.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, I always think of things a little bit like, you know, stocks is. Or maybe just everything is stocks, but it's the only one that is, you know, there's a centralized body which describes everything. But it really does, though, the more they do it, the more there is that arbitrage opportunity where they're. Because the, you know, you know, like in, you know, attraction or whatever. It's like, you know, there's the kind of, the oldest men, women thing, but women aren't attracted to a man who. They can predict every thing about him, you know, and so it's like they. People think they want that, but then they kind of stop wanting it. So at a time when everything kind of becomes predictable, when you see something that wasn't, you know, in a lot of ways, it's so much more attractive. But then. Yeah. So you kind of like, how do you rise above the algorithms to be that?

[Chris Williamson]

There's a tension between sort of novelty or being exotic and being reliable and consistent, because people like that. I think this is one of the reasons. Again, I listened to tons of Shapiro during 2020, during COVID If there's a global pandemic going on, you need a daily show. I chose him. I know I can just read the title. I've got a pretty good idea of what his take's gonna be. It's like putting on an old leather pair of shoes. You know, there's a cadence.

[Ryan Long]

I watch the cop shows like NCIS and stuff like that.

[Chris Williamson]

No, it's the fucking brother. It's the uncle. It's the guy that was like, sort of snooping around the corner at the start and asking too many questions. You know what it's going to be. But you're almost there for that. It's comfortable. Log fire. You've got your fucking slippers on. I'm familiar with this, and I think that the tension that people have between this desire for reliability and consistency and predictability, but avoiding being boring and also the sort of spice of novelty and newness that everybody wants finding that is exactly what it is. But I mean, how many times have you been on the algo and it's just thrown you something you've never seen before, and you're like, oh, that's fucking good. So I. I went down a rabbit hole of, yes, Star wars, the meme.

[Ryan Long]

If you're in the meme culture, there's a lot of, you know, it'll get you.

[Chris Williamson]

Dude, I went in, I went down this huge rabbit hole of Star wars character battle power. Like, analysis. People that had read all of the lore and they know who the most powerful Sith is of all time, and they work out what would have happened if Luke Skywalker at peak power had actually fought this guy and all the rest of it. And then that led me into this one about Marvel comics and all of the Marvel comics. And this is the biggest, most powerful guy. And it's that same fucking black man AI voice that everybody uses. And I was like this. And I was enthralled. But that was one video I'd never seen before. So that was the bit of novelty that just gets tossed at you, and you're like, like, oh, wow. Like, this is fucking sweet. And then other times, you go, okay, if. If I had that all the time be too chaotic. It's like, cat video, breastfeeding video, cow video, fucking Marvel video. Too much.

[Ryan Long]

It's got it. There has to be. You know what? This would be the opportunity for the company that you basically are like, algorithm curators. Because, you know, especially, like, in what you. What you do, where you go. You know, there's people that are like, yeah, I know that this is worse for me. So I'm choosing to sort of. You know, it's. Obviously, you don't want to just be, like, using your willpower every second, right? So you. You. You're able to say, okay, this is someone. They take over your account for a week, and then they give it back to you, where you're like, this is like the success algorithm you're about to get. I was. I was saying that it's. I don't get. You know, I never get messed up by politics. Like, it never really, like, gets to me. But the alpha male should sometimes where it's like, if you sleep, you're gay. And I'll be like, what the.

[Chris Williamson]

You know, dude, it's.

[Ryan Long]

I will legit just be like, on a plane. And, you know, a guy's just like, you know, y'all sleeping. You know, these. They're sleeping while I'm working, content. And I'm just like, I'm loser. It's just yelling at me. Can I tell you one thing?

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

My buddy. I know a guy that he filmed with Jordan Peterson. I know you know, Jordan. And he goes. He was like the camera guy. And it was. And he was, like, doing, like, a rant. And he said he, like, honestly went home stressed out because he was holding just right here. Right. Well, Jordan, Peter's like. And another thing, because I went to work, I just got yelled at by Jordan Peterson for three hours. He said to shake it off. Like. Like, just the camera guy.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, my God. Yeah, I. I have. I have no idea how people that have to put up with that sort of stuff. There was a dude that worked for us, Bennett, my dp. The camera op didn't show for the Jocko Willink episode that we did a few years ago. And he was. I mean, Jocko's gone. He's a man with a large head. And this shot was zoomed like just that. It was just his eyes and his nose and this guy. For three hours, Bennett had just been Looking down the lens of the camera like this. Like, tracking his head as he'd moved around. And he was like, dude, I just, like, stared at a guy that's killed people's eyes three and a half hours.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, he's getting my soul.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. Yeah. I know he wasn't looking at me, but it kind of felt like it.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, it feels like it.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay, we got to talk a bit of politics. Like, what. What the fuck is the assessment you've got? This isn't your first time in the US during an election? Is this more crazy than it is typically? It's my first time here.

[Ryan Long]

Oh, this is your first time being here for it?

[Chris Williamson]

Yep.

[Ryan Long]

Feels less crazy to me.

[Chris Williamson]

Really?

[Ryan Long]

Does it feel more crazy to you?

[Chris Williamson]

Well, I haven't been here before, but you've been.

[Ryan Long]

I mean, everyone's inundated by American politics, paid attention.

[Chris Williamson]

I don't know, man. I mean, from two assassination attempts to a replaced candidate to, like, one of them going on call her daddy. Like, I mean, it's. It's all.

[Ryan Long]

Have you seen. Danny's the AI king right now, bro.

[Chris Williamson]

So for the people that don't know, I had to text Danny about this. I also sent it to the guy that did Alex's $125 million Sirius XM deal, and I was like, bro, have you seen this?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Danny did a Kamala and Alex AI.

[Ryan Long]

He AI. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And makes, like, a script that the AI must read in their voice, and he was talking about Kamala. Everybody knows that you're the throat goat. So can we talk? Unreal.

[Ryan Long]

I mean, if you're. If you're 70 years old and you just watch a video and you're supposed to know, it's AI. Like, you're. You're cooked, man. You know, you're done.

[Chris Williamson]

Yep.

[Ryan Long]

But, yeah, in terms of. To me, it feels like, Like. I mean, the last four election. Okay. I. I remember I was in. I guess we'll see who. Who wins and how it shakes down. I remember being in Toronto when Trump won the first time, and I was at a comedy club and girls were crying. Like, girls were, like, balling their eyes out.

[Chris Williamson]

And I remember I went on Canadian girls.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, we. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, American politics is everywhere, so you are. Yes. It's funny that it isn't Canada, but I guess it doesn't feel like that. They feel like, you know, and I'm sure they were correct that, like, Trumpian president is going to affect the next four years of their life or whatever. But, yeah, that's how much, you know, And I know people in New York that were like, yeah, I cried. And they kind of feel like a little embarrassed about it now. But I remember I went on stage and I was like, it's 2016. And I was like, there's gonna be some changes around here. Like, the first thing that happened, it was like, yeah, it was crazy. People were crying. Right. But to me, it doesn't feel like it's. It feels to some degree like a lot of people are in some ways embarrassed about how much they lost their mind, you know, and they lost their. People lost their mind so many times where now it feels, you know, back to probably a little closer to how I grew up where, you know, people are like, yeah, you know, there's podcasts with people that have different political views. The. It seems to me like both candidates are sort of, you know, Trump's going on being like, no, I'm not crazy on abortion. And then Kamala's going on being like, I swear I'm not like this crazy woke person. Like, they're almost, you know, they're clearly sort of whether they're going to do it or not, but they're clearly like, that's who they're trying to sort of, you know, move into again. We'll see what happens afterwards. But I was kind of thinking that so many of arguments right now is just, you know, abortion would be an example. But you can probably, you know, pick anything. Most arguments in politics are just who has the more egregious edge case? You know what I mean? So it's like. And most of the time, 90%, 99.9% of the time, you're not talking about edge cases, but it's really being like, here's this edge case of what happens if you get. If you get your way. And then this guy goes, well, here's an edge case of what happens the other way.

[Chris Williamson]

Okay. One person's like, immigrant that's killed an entire family of five is another person's third trimester, a dead baby that's actually been five hours born or some shit.

[Ryan Long]

And in reality, none of it, you know, most of it, almost. Almost never any of it happens. Right?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

And I'm sure whatever people are probably. Are you arguing like, well, this one happens a lot and maybe there are edge cases of what I'm saying.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, if it's. If it's a true edge case, then it doesn't happen a lot. That's what the definition.

[Ryan Long]

By definitions. There you go.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

But, yeah, so to me, it Was like, every argument I watch right now, it feels like it's like, how can you prepare the most egregious edge case?

[Chris Williamson]

It's just nut picking left. Yeah, well.

[Ryan Long]

And I think why it's gone a little more politically. Like, if you watch, if you watch like the debates with the, the VP debates. Right. And I kind of watch this stuff because we talk about it a bit, but, like, to me, that was your classic vintage. You know, I was going like, you know, the politics we're used to now is just like, these guys are going on being like, he has a pretty good idea. I actually agree with him on that one. It's pretty good idea. And I'm like, call him fat. What are you. What is like, call him a rapist. What do we want? What I came in for? Like, that's what me and Danny were saying, that you just have a flashback where you go, wait, am I just watching a VP debate? What the hell? Like, right?

[Chris Williamson]

Like, I came here for a royal rumble.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. I thought I was. I thought I was watching politics. Not politics. We were saying the same thing about conspiracy theories where sometimes you. You get it too deep into conspiracies series. Like, I was watching all the P. Diddy stuff and watching all this stuff, and you're like, it's an Epstein sex trafficking ring. And then eventually you're just like, so JLo is leaving Ben Affleck and he's not happy. And you go, rfk's wife was seen without her wedding ring. And before, you know, he's just gossiping and you're like, what are you talking about? RFK's wife? Even I'm doing conspiracies right now.

[Chris Williamson]

Right. It's been so watered down that everything is.

[Ryan Long]

Now you get into like, those kind of conspiracies. You're just doing. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

How much do you think the Kamala going on podcasts and doing the 60 minutes and all the rest of it is just a response to the fact that Trump is everywhere at the moment? Do you think that's them playing defense? Just sort of trying to get her out there? Because it's too obvious if she doesn't go on all of this long, any long form stuff at all. There's this big sort of open loop of.

[Ryan Long]

I think it was too obvious. And they were like, well, let's crank out a few, you know, softballs. Like Stern, you know, Stern is going to be, you know, going to be like, what's it like being so great? You know, Know. So I think that that's what they're doing, they're like, yeah, let's crank out a few. And then I think that people just don't like her. So it seems to be that it's kind of changing the things. I'm sure it's not changing a lot, but I mean, the betting markets not feeling her interviews.

[Chris Williamson]

Dude, do you follow Poly Market?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, I love following Polymarkets.

[Chris Williamson]

All right, so everyone, I had Mike Solana from Pirate Wise on the show a couple of months ago. He's so fucking great. They wrote this thing today I wanted to read to you. So this is. They're sponsored by Poly Market, right? They're like, okay, I'm not a partner with Poly Market. This is not ad. But this is one of the best ad reads that I've ever read. So. A tour hoc tour. As Donald Trump continues his campaign to a podcast circuit ahead of next month's presidential election, Polymarket gives a 4% chance that he'll eventually join the Hawk Tour girl on her new talk to a show. While those odds have gone down, no pun intended, from a high of 10% earlier this week, there's still a non zero chance the Don Hawk collab happening. Meaning a few betters with real stake in the game still believe DJT may sit down with the influencer, grab the mic and spit on that thing for an hour or so. Let this be a lesson, folks. If someone comes up to you on the street asking invasive sex questions, don't be so quick to brush them off. You might just end up interviewing a president. I fucking loved that ad read. I thought that was so fucking stupid.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, it's funny.

[Chris Williamson]

A tour Hawk tour. But yeah.

[Ryan Long]

And that is. Yeah, right now I was. I've been kind of making a joke. I was actually gonna do a sketch about this. I never did. But the idea of like, like every girl now, you know, answering a street question being like, actually, you know what, can I do that again? Bring it in. I think I could do that better. Just every girl trying to be the biggest hoe. Because that's how they get famous. I think Lieutenant Dan, the hurricane guy, he's going to be the new hawk to A guy's going to have a.

[Chris Williamson]

So all right, he's going to be interviewing the president for the people that don't know. Who's Lieutenant Dan?

[Ryan Long]

He's the. He's like a guy that been going viral during the hurricane stuff and he even lives in a boat, I guess, or something like that because he refuses.

[Chris Williamson]

To leave during Category 5 hurricane.

[Ryan Long]

But yeah, so I Guess that there. Obviously, she couldn't do no interviews, so, yeah, she had to do a few at some point.

[Chris Williamson]

It's. It's funny that you say about that, like, retrospective shame pt, like ptsd, pro post traumatic shame disorder of.

[Ryan Long]

You must know people have that.

[Chris Williamson]

A little bit. But I don't know, because 2016, I still really, really had my head up my ass, so was not paying much attention to what was going on politically. But I can totally see how that would be the case. There's another element as well, I think.

[Ryan Long]

Where just people that were, like, mad crazy during COVID Yes, that's true.

[Chris Williamson]

That would be more accurate, that one. But with the Trump thing, I think there's a bit where people don't want to admit that he gets to them. Like, everybody knows his shtick largely now, the. Like, he did this bit the other day where people. This someone was like, gays for Trump. Gays for Trump. And he said. Who said that? Some guy was like, ask me over here. And he went, you don't look gay. Like, you just know that what he's gonna say. He called. I called Alex Cooper, like, dumb. She's a dummy. Like, he's a dumb, dumb girl. She's a dummy. And, like, I mean, there's there, there's.

[Ryan Long]

There's, like, fair criticisms, and then there's like, your brain's gone. Like, I can get, like, a normal person being like, yo, I don't want to, like, live in a world that, like, revolves around one man again for four years, you know, where it's just, like, the whole world, like, revolves around this one guy. Like, that's fair to say, you know, And I think some people think that. So, I mean, probably a referendum on, you know, whether people want Trump again. And then out of the people that are like, we don't being like, is this too much much? Is she going to be that bad? People saying that.

[Chris Williamson]

We'll get back to talking to Ryan in one minute, but first, I need to tell you about Function. You probably want to know what's happening inside of your body. But getting your blood work comprehensively analyzed can cost thousands, which is why I partnered with function for just 500. You receive extensive lab work on over 100 carefully selected biomarkers, giving you insights into your hormone profile, cardiovascular health, organ function, and. And much more. Their team of expert physicians will then analyze the data and give you actionable advice to improve your health and lifespan. Monitoring things like your testosterone can make a massive difference to your energy, performance, and happiness. And being able to See, that data charted out over the course of a year with actionable insights to actually improve them is exactly what you get with function. Dr. Andrew Hubman is their scientific advisor and Dr. Mark Hyman is their chief medical officer. So you can trust that the data and insights you receive are scientifically sound, sound and reliable. Right now you can discover where your health stands and take action with functions expert health assessments by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com modern wisdom that's functionhealth.com modern wisdom. Isn't it interesting that the press are pushing so hard against Trump? The Atlantic came out in support of Kamala.

[Ryan Long]

Wait, the media was against Trump, you're saying I didn't catch it. Which one?

[Chris Williamson]

But like the single greatest thing that could happen to all of the clicks of every single news they're in, clicks on the planet would be four years of a Trump presidency.

[Ryan Long]

Sort of. But again, it's a short term thing. Again, like, think about what, how did that end? All of those places that you go, this was a click bonanza. How are they doing now? Are they doing better or worse than they were?

[Chris Williamson]

Keep them in power.

[Ryan Long]

That.

[Chris Williamson]

Keep them in power.

[Ryan Long]

But that's what I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of. I mean, I've been, I was having trouble sleeping and I started taking sleeping pills and it was like, well, now I have to take, now I have to take sleeping pills.

[Chris Williamson]

Right?

[Ryan Long]

Okay, well, it feels like that a little bit. Where you go, yeah, that'll be a click bonanza. But you, I think you have to like, but you're going to ruin your brand in the process.

[Chris Williamson]

I wonder whether.

[Ryan Long]

And literally, dude, they lost their mind so much and tried to like ring out every click during Trump that it killed media.

[Chris Williamson]

That's true. That is true. Expedited the death of mainstream media.

[Ryan Long]

It's not a job anymore because they've lost their mind so much during Trump.

[Chris Williamson]

That's a good point.

[Ryan Long]

Have you seen the, the New York Times were striking, right?

[Chris Williamson]

No.

[Ryan Long]

And so the New York Times was going on strike and they basically had to, they had their demands. And it was like, imagine what you would think they would be. It was like, we need, you know, know, like rooms if we're feeling microaggressions. The one thing was they go, we need trigger warnings. And like, shit, that you're like this. You're kidding, right? And it was like, they want trigger warnings at the news. Like they work in the news. Trigger warnings. Right. But it was just funny because the same day that came out was the thing where Wall street was like, we're only going to let people bar 82 hours a week. It's, like, so funny, like, right?

[Chris Williamson]

Dichotomy of within the space of, like, three miles.

[Ryan Long]

Traditional media. Yeah, traditional, like fucking liberal New York media versus, you know, ruthless capitalist. Versus, like, yeah, dude, bro, fucking capitalist. And it was like, they're. They're making a rule that they're only allowed to work 82 hours a week on paper. I mean, no one's going to follow.

[Chris Williamson]

It, but, yeah, you are limited to three grams of cocaine per day in the office on account. Yeah. So this. The Atlantic thing. The Atlantic, for the fifth time in its history, is endorsing a candidate for president, Kamala Harris. But another way to write it is the huge endorsement.

[Ryan Long]

People were waiting on that.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. I mean, dude, they wrote an article. When was it Scientific American came out in support of Kamala. They literally wrote an article saying Scientific American didn't need to endorse anybody. And then a month later, obviously, whatever pressure has been applied to them that they need to come out. Come on, we really need your support.

[Ryan Long]

So they're big. Is it the reason they have a big subscription model and their base is like, hey, we're paying you money. Are you going to say something or what?

[Chris Williamson]

Maybe I get the sense that it would have come more from inside of the company than inside of the audience. But another way to write it. Fifth time in the history endorsing a presidential candidate, or third time in a row, they're endorsing Trump's opponent.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

It's like. It's not the whole. Everything that's happening with regards to politics at the moment is just a big fuck off protest vote. You're not voting for the love of that candidate. You're voting, you know, hate of the other one.

[Ryan Long]

You know, you said that, you know, you were in Covid, you go to Ben Shapiro, and you're that comfort. And that's what it is. I mean, that's how I look at news, where I'm. I'm like, okay, I'll just. Sometimes I like to look at it to see what they're. What the thing that people want you to think is. You know what I mean?

[Chris Williamson]

Right.

[Ryan Long]

So, like, those publications. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

It's not telling you what's going on. It's telling you what people want you to think is going on, which I.

[Ryan Long]

Think is, you know, especially if you're someone that's, you know, a comedian or in culture, and any business where you need to know, like the way things are moving or, you know, know probably you want to know those things, but that's, that's the only information that you get generally. Or if they, or if they corroborate something that everyone else seems to corroborate, it's maybe another piece of data.

[Chris Williamson]

I wonder what's going to happen if it, if it does calm down a bit. Like, you know, we've sort of crazy wokey stuff on one side, seems to be chilling out a little bit. Trump seems to be moderating himself. Maybe that's just in the run up to the actual voting point or maybe that's actually indicative of what he's trying to do longer term.

[Ryan Long]

Well, I think the end of the day, you have to look at it didn't work. You know, the, at the end of the day, like where you go, why is it, you know, you know, why are things like moving away from that? You go, because it didn't work. Very effective. Yeah, it was ineffective.

[Chris Williamson]

So your job during the campaign is to get elected. You did a thing, it didn't get you elected. Should do a different thing and see if it works.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. And then also, but you know, it also probably, I mean, OK, Candace, obviously like a more aggressive example. They've had 12 years of Justin Trudeau who's like a clown. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

And you go with face paint.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. And yo, there's like people went from mostly people being fairly liberal to people having like fuck Trudeau stickers on the, like turned into like a Republican dad over, you know, a night. You know what I mean? Like, people are legit. You know, your, your average person is, you know, ready to, is talking about the Second Amendment and stuff like that. Right. And that to me, that's what, that's what that did it like, it didn't, it made people go the other way because it was, you know, so flawed, like logically that I think that like most dudes just weren't like, I'm not buying what you're selling.

[Chris Williamson]

You end up with reaction.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. So I mean, that's in, in addition to like politically, it was somewhat not effective in the long term. It's probably, I mean, it might be, to be honest, it might have been somewhat effective at points to get people elected, but probably not to make anything better. That's for sure.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, that's the game, right, Is between what you need to do or say in order to be able to get yourself into office. But what does that actually do in terms of making the world a better.

[Ryan Long]

Place and how do you do it again? You know what I mean? It's like, girl, that you've promised the world and didn't deliver, you know, you can.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, that's the thing. That's the mad thing about the sort of Kamala situation is that you're in power now. Like, you're literally. You've been in office. I know you're second, like number number two or whatever, but you've. All of the things that you're highlighting that are problems with the country that need to be fixed. There has to be attention. When it comes to the talking points that her team are creating for her, that is. Well, we can kind of derogate where the world and the country is at right now, but we can't do it too much because kind of we were in charge a bit. So whereas the person that is the opponent as opposed to the incumbent, Is she the incumbent? I guess, kind of. Kind of not. The person that's on the other side can go, this has been ruined. I'll come in and fix it. Like, all of the problems are their fault. Technically, her fault. She's got, like, a bit of culpable deniability, but not that much because it's like, well, you were fucking inside of the tent, pissing out, not Trump trying to burn it down from the outside.

[Ryan Long]

I mean, you're. I think you're talking to, like, your audience and you're talking to voters the way that maybe their people are supposed to think about it. But I don't think that is how people think about it. I mean, most people have their one issue. Like, any girl that I know that's like, yeah, I'm not voting for Trump. Like, he's against abortion. End of story. Like, that's so many New York people. I mean, so, I mean, really, that's all, like, semantics. It's like an argument that that changes nothing to some degree.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, it's wild every time that I read an assessment, if it's Nate Silver, that polling guy, or even, like, more partisan media stuff, everybody that's talking about polling is basically saying almost all of this campaigning stuff could just be shut down. Probably 98% or 99% of America could just switch off about the election. And there's like four counties in Pennsylvania and a couple in Nevada, and they can actually deal with it.

[Ryan Long]

Always seems weird to me. Yeah, people have probably made this point, but they're like, oh, the, like all the undecided voters. You're like, who? No, I don't know Anyone that's like.

[Chris Williamson]

5% at this point is like, I.

[Ryan Long]

Don'T know, they're both good. It's like, who is that guy? I mean, the only thing I get is the guy who, you know, do I like this person enough to actually get off my ass and do it?

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

To me that makes sense where you're. When they always talk, what, undecided. But to me it probably seems more like unregistered. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

You're not yet registered.

[Ryan Long]

My actually, you know, this guy that you know, maybe, yeah, I prefer Trump, but I don't like Kamala. You're like, are you actually going to go do it?

[Chris Williamson]

And you're like, probably not motivated enough.

[Ryan Long]

Can you get that guy to vote? To me, that feels like more what it's about.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, that's a really good point. But when you think. I think it's about 5% of voters are class themselves as undecided or a class as undecided. But then of that 5% of 330 million people. People, how many of them have registered to vote? How many of them are going to go and vote? And of that subset of that subset, how many of them live in the counties of the places that actually matter? The Pennsylvania, the Nevada, the whatever the fuck.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

It's like you might actually be talking about the entire political campaign running rampant across the world being for less than a million people. That might actually be who it is.

[Ryan Long]

It's less money for those people.

[Chris Williamson]

Less than a million people, like, that might be who is all of this stuff is being funneled toward. The only ones that matter can vote, will vote.

[Ryan Long]

I guess it's really based on blunders then, you know, at this point you go, I don't know if there's anything good someone could do or like, their speech was so good they changed people's mind. It's really like, did you not mess up so bad that you dropped a point?

[Chris Williamson]

You're going on call her daddy. That's a high risk strategy. Therefore you. I don't know. It's. You are right, though. I mean, how many times that Trump did flagrant with sh.

[Ryan Long]

Me, I didn't see. I didn't see it that way. Where it is hilarious to me, but I, to me, that felt like, I mean, the call her daddy when they were doing the like blowjob tutorials, that was more like the five years ago bar stool days, from what I understand. So really it was like she go. From what I think in my mind, what I think it is now is like, like women talking about mental Health and. You know what I mean? Chick talk. Yeah, like, that kind of.

[Chris Williamson]

So it's Haley Bieber talking about how difficult it is to deal with the pressures of fame and stuff like that.

[Ryan Long]

Like, a lot of that kind of.

[Chris Williamson]

That's what I think it is, too. Although, yeah, you're right. Alex kind of branded herself as one thing, and then she go, yeah, she.

[Ryan Long]

Wanted to get out of it.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, I think, I think that seems to be the case. But that the we're playing off errors, not successes, I think is, like, absolutely dialed, like, fucking straight on the money. How many times that Trump was on Schulz's show and he described himself as, I think, like, kind of truthful or mostly. I'm a mostly truthful person or something like that. And everybody. Yeah, Schultz was like, what? Mostly tr. What is that? That was in a campaign ad for Kamala, like, today.

[Ryan Long]

Really?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, that happened. They recorded it on Monday. It came out yesterday. It was in a campaign ad today. So it very much is a. Just obsessively watch what the other candidate does.

[Ryan Long]

See if you can find a blunder.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. So the amount of, I guess, opportunities that you give the other person, like, the fewer opportunity if you don't do so many.

[Ryan Long]

You think that's kind of wild when you look at it, where you go, you know, like, you know all these people that are kind of like, pivotal people and deciding the election now. You know what I mean? Yeah, that kind of wild. Like, the media, like, changed so much, and you kind of. In the last five years, you look around, you go, oh, I guess I'm like, it's like your friends that are kind of like.

[Chris Williamson]

And pretty apparently important in the future of the country somehow.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. And a lot of people like that. It's pretty kind of wild.

[Chris Williamson]

It is pretty strange. Yeah. I, I, I don't know how I feel about that. Like, it's kind of flattering to everybody that it's power, but it also feels a lot like, who the fuck. I keep bringing this up. There's this image of Mark Zuckerberg in front of Congress, and he's being shouted at. It's when he still was AI.

[Ryan Long]

They love shouting at them.

[Chris Williamson]

But it was like, AI Mark, where everyone was sure he was a lizard robot person and not Chad Mark now with a beard and a necklace, chain, grills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, he's fucking hype Beast Mark. Absolutely. He is. He is. Yeah. He's Erawan Mark. Um, and it was just an image of a guy who, 15 years ago had tried to be able to work out who was hotter on a website and whether you were in a relationship with someone or not.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Now being told that he's suppressing information, which is crucial to the future of the Republic or some shit, and he's.

[Ryan Long]

Just like this, and he's like, it's just a guy.

[Chris Williamson]

But it's kind of the same with, you know, what the fuck is going on. That Alex Cooper, some girl that just wanted to have a chat with her friends and like, maybe some famous chicks about what it's like to fucking be a girl and grow up and have casual sex or something, be a whore. And now you're having a chat with, like, the vice president, potential future president of the country. You go, oh, like, we've handed a lot of power to, like, random people.

[Ryan Long]

Well, we didn't hand it to them that's. They took it themselves.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, they've grown that power. Yeah, it's super interesting. It's fucking the people.

[Ryan Long]

They had the power before, like, proves themselves not to be trusted. And then people left. Left. You know, it's kind of. I mean, it. There's. That, I'm sure you've heard in tech, where they, like, everything is just centralizing and decentralizing again. Well, basically, like, every new company is bundling and unbundling of some sort, where it's like, you know, there was, you know, first it was, you know, songs were a thing, and then you started having CDs. And then basically then they started, you know, the new company was like, you could buy a bunch of CDs at one once. And then. And then. Then it was back to, like, original songs, and then Spotify bundles them again. And, like, so basically there's a thing that every company is basically, like, bundling and then unbundling products. But I was kind of thinking, like, you know, it's almost like if you look at everything, you know, politics, culture, it's all just fashion going from baggy to tight and tight to baggy. Like, kind of. It kind of relates to, like, everything, but it's like music always goes from, like, soft to hard or. Or, like, technical and then back to, like, kind of nihilistic. It doesn't matter, like, the rap. And then you get the rapper who's like, I'm the best at rapping. And then you go to the guy that's like, I don't even care about being good. It's not about that. It just goes back and forth. But it's all just things going from tight to baggy. Baggy to tight. And like politics and media, it kind of is like that too. Where it's, it really went from like, you know, it went from baggy or tight, which is, you know, button down crimping proper to baggy, which is like a bunch of people like talking shit on a podcast. And then. Yeah, so it's like all of, you know, kind of culture is just things going from tight to baggy and baggy. Baggy, tight.

[Chris Williamson]

Really? I'd never thought of that. But also it's in line with what you were saying about the Trump Biden and then Trump Kamala debates. And you go, that could have been the intro to the flagrant episode. It's the same 10 centenna. Do you know what I mean? It's personal.

[Ryan Long]

I see what you're saying.

[Chris Williamson]

It's like the exact set. So for us to say, oh, isn't it crazy that now Alex Cooper and Andrew Schultz and all of these people have got Aiden Ross is important to the future of Donald Trump's presidency and stuff like that, you go, oh, kind of. But only if you're comparing it to the wrong period in history. If you compare it to the right period in history, which is right fucking now, it makes total sense what happens. Yeah, he knows what he said at the end of that sentence. He doesn't know either. Like, was just. It's complete, it's continuation. Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

So the removal of like gatekeepers. But yeah, you can imagine why that.

[Chris Williamson]

Like, even when they're on the gatekeeper program, you know, they had to reinstall gatekeepers, as in there's a way that we can mute your mic. Like that's a physical fucking gatekeeper. Because the natural decorum that would have typically been had in a presidential debate. Do you ever see that one? It was whoever Obama ran up against in like 2012 12, whoever that was. And they go and they sort of shake hands at the beginning. And I think before we get started, I'd like to wish the honorable gentleman's wife a very happy birthday. And you think, wow, lame shit. Come on, call him a dick.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, it's always, it always switches. To me, it's like, politics is politics and then it becomes culture. You know what I mean? Where, you know, Trump is culture, where it's like you could at whether or not you were into politics, you had an opinion on Trump. So it kind of transcends, you know, there's certain issues like men and women and, you know, race stuff, that they're kind of more of part of culture. And then there's issues that are less, less sexy. Like the Federal Reserve, which are the actual, you know, usually important ones. Yeah, that kind of, you know, no one, they don't, they're not sexy. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

In other news, this episode is brought to you by Magic Spoon. You you probably know Magic Spoon for their super popular high protein Cereal that's got 75,000 five star reviews, which I'm sure you're aware of. Well, now they've turned those cereals into treats that taste just like classic crunchy cereal bars that you had growing up but with way more protein and less sugar. It's like a tasty guilt free time machine taking you back to your childhood. They have a crispy and airy texture that tastes phenomenal. And Every treat has 11 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar and only 4, 4 net grams of carbs. So you can actually feel good about something that you're enjoying eating. They're great for pre workout traveling or midnight snacks. Best of all, they have six deliciously nostalgic flavors including marshmallow, chocolate peanut butter, blueberry, double chocolate birthday cake and strawberry milkshake. Right now you can get $5 off your next order by going to the link in the Description [e-mail] Modern Wisdom. That's Magicspoon.com Modern Wisdom. Or you can look for Magic Spoon in your nearest grocery store. There's a an idea called the barber pole when it comes to fashion. So if you imagine you've got four layers, you've got lower class, lower middle, upper middle and upper. And basically each different group is trying to pretend to be 1 above them. You can't pretend to be 2 above you. So you know how a barber pole, when it rotates, it goes up and then it restarts at the bottom, bottom, like if you think about, it's pretty good.

[Ryan Long]

I like it.

[Chris Williamson]

Talking about the baggy to tight, tight to baggy thing, when Kanye west started making clothing, what was it? It was like almost hobo chic. Right. It was like literally like oversized long.

[Ryan Long]

Sleeves for a million dollars.

[Chris Williamson]

Correct.

[Ryan Long]

Here's a ripped up shirt for the.

[Chris Williamson]

Only, the only people that could afford it were the people at the top of the barber pole. But how were they dressing? They were dressing like the people at the bottom of the barber pole.

[Ryan Long]

So while that's oh fuck, I like it.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, you're signaling. But the only reason, because everyone's going one up.

[Ryan Long]

But when you're the whole talk, you've.

[Chris Williamson]

Got to go, right?

[Ryan Long]

That's the, you know, hedge fund kid, son, red Sneakers slum. Or the. Yeah. Mark Zuckerberg.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. Where they don't thing.

[Ryan Long]

Where they're all wearing the hoodies.

[Chris Williamson]

It's the same as the guy that just got his PhD saying it's Dr. Long, actually. As opposed to the dude that's been a practicing surgeon for 50 years.

[Ryan Long]

Call me Mark.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, 100%.

[Ryan Long]

That's a great theory. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love that barber pole idea. So I'm always thinking about, about, okay, what's this person signaling and who are they trying to be?

[Ryan Long]

You know what? I. I'll tell you what kind of something that I think about that is, that relates to that. Because when you're thinking about, you know, people are always moving and looking to present themselves as something different. I'm always like, never listen to anyone who hasn't been the thing for less than two years. So when someone's telling you about religion, you know, you'll have a friend that's like, I'm religious. Here's why. It's great. Or I'm, you know, here's why. You know, they just got into veganism. Yeah. Or. Or, you know, just got into right wing stuff and they're like, you know, calling you a sheep now. Like, and it was like a week ago, this guy was you watching cnn, you know what I mean? Like. But I feel like two years is the amount where you have to be in it for two years before I want to hear.

[Chris Williamson]

Then you can preach to me.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah. Because then otherwise it's like, you know, use that on someone else. Like, if you, if you want to go talk to your family and bother your co workers and your bullshit. It. I don't want to be the test subject for you, you know, playing with your new toy. Playing with your new toy. Yeah. Now that's then. Now I'm a sucker.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

If you find yourself being like, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

What am I, a sand? Am I a petri dish for your. Like, like dog New ideas?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, that's. That's when you're a sucker.

[Chris Williamson]

That's a, That's a good point. You're a, you're an easy mark for me to like, dick about with this new idea. One of my friends has a rule where he never listens to the suggestions that anyone's got for software. And like, productivity is like into productivity and stuff and someone. Everybody's known. Oh, bro, I've got this new task management app, loops in with Google Calendar and then it automatically populates. It tracks all your time. And then he's got the. You can do it on your phone and it automatically does all of this stuff. And he's like, how long you used it for? He goes, about two and a half weeks. He goes. So his rule is he never takes suggestions for software for anyone, one that's used it for less than five years.

[Ryan Long]

Because they don't know all the problems.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. Yeah. You know, where does it. Where does it.

[Ryan Long]

What's.

[Chris Williamson]

What's the limits that this thing comes up against? What's it like living with this thing today? Today, when the shininess and the novelties. What is left when I.

[Ryan Long]

When I'm like, working with people? Especially, like, film's a big one for this, you know, comedy even more so in any sort of, like, comedy film sense, it's like, everyone's pretty good at their job until there's a problem, right? So people that aren't that good, you know, that haven't been, you know, done it for every year, like, really, what makes, like, a great sound guy a lot of times is like, they've dealt with every single problem, so nothing will happen. And there's a peace of mind to know, you know, whereas someone's not that good. And a lot of people that are mediocre will always kind of be like, well, this is wrong, and this is wrong. You're like, yeah, that's. Things go wrong.

[Chris Williamson]

Everyone can be good at their job when there's problems.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's a good way to say it. Everyone can be good at their. Everyone can be good at everything. Like, you can. You can spend six months getting to the point where you're good at this in perfect conditions. But, like, being good at something means there's not. So. Yeah. So people that kind of have that thing, often you find you. You like, hire them and. And they'll kind of be like, well, this went wrong, and this went wrong. And they'll always be giving you things that went wrong. And you're like, yeah, things go wrong. I don't know.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, that's why you're hired. You're hired to sell things.

[Ryan Long]

When I was. When I used to do, like, showcases in Con comedy, what's that? Like, if you. Let's say, you know, they have festivals and, you know, TV things. If you're. So people would be on the.

[Chris Williamson]

I like that moon tower thing.

[Ryan Long]

It's kind of like how people auditioned for things for a long time. Like, a lot of times they would have, you know, people audition this way and stand up. She'd kind of audition by doing stand up and I. But a lot of times, you know, especially in the 2017, 18 eras, there was a lot of people that were, you know, shooting up in the industries that weren't actually that good at the thing. So I would always, whenever I was a. I. I always would hate when it was a hot crowd. I would love it like, whenever I was doing a. Yeah, because you're like, if there's 10 people and four of them, like, can't even, they're not even that good. If it's a hot crowd, you're not gonna be able to tell which one of those are. If it's a bad crowd, those people are all gonna bomb.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, it's the proving ground. Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

So I always used to like it when it was. Whereas if, if you've been doing this forever and you're pretty good at it, you're like, oh, I actually know how to switch this like, or whatever. Not. You're not gonna every time, but like, you might, you might be able to do it. They won't be able to do it.

[Chris Williamson]

That's so good. Yeah. I've been using this analogy about lifting on Mars or lifting on Jupiter. So Mars, less gravity. Jupiter, more gravity. And what you want to basically do is do your practicing where you're lifting on Jupiter and do your performance when you're lifting on Mars.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

So prepare for the worst and hope for the best type thing. And that's really interesting. I've got my first set of work in progress shows for the next live tour happening starting this Monday day that you helped me with last year. And yeah, I've got the same thing again where I'm like, the room's really cool, it's really dark. You want the temperature. Yeah. I'm like, can we.

[Ryan Long]

Jerry Seinfeld has a pretty good point about it that applies to, I think a lot of things, but he has pretty good points. He doesn't make much comedy, but he has a good points on comedy. But he says, he goes that good rooms are for exploring and bad rooms are for refining. Beginning.

[Chris Williamson]

Oh, that's great.

[Ryan Long]

So, so to. This goes a little against what you're saying, but if you're looking to like, figure it out at the beginning, that's not the worst. To have like a good room where people are supportive. However, I would imagine the most of your rooms are that like, I, I can't imagine you're gonna do like, if you did like a small room for 100 crowd. Yeah. And people are like a, you know.

[Chris Williamson]

I doubt you're gonna get that energy I've been loving. I mean, I gotta. Again, I need to thank you and you thanked me at the beginning, but I gotta thank you with some of the stuff that you gave me last year. I was so fucking amazing. Amazing. I. If you are a person who doesn't have a friend that's a top flight comedian, which maybe I guess most people don't. But if you. I texted you a couple of times about a few things I was trying to work out. You could have been on the toilet or like in an Uber somewhere and I just got nothing short of like pure gold that given 100 years I couldn't have written just this like stream of consciousness from you on my imessage. And I still like hold on to these bits. Like it's. You won't even remember them. You won't even remember what that. There's like one bit about Amber Heard which was just fucking phenomenal. Like this three part bit. There's another bit about Bill Cosby. There's another bit about something else I was like, it just, it blows my mind like to see. I guess it's probably, it's probably what it must feel like if you have a friend that's an unbelievable MMA fighter and you just know him, right? You just talk, you go for dinner, you hang out, and then every so often you get to watch him put on this very specific set of skills on display and you go, holy fuck. Like, what's that? What's that bit of you? Just this growth, this sort of additional side of your entire capacity that nobody else has. So yeah, it's.

[Ryan Long]

It is, yeah. There is like a brain thing of like how jokes work and I think a lot of. Yeah, but so you kind of get good at doing that. And I think for what you were doing too, there was an element where it's like, you know, a bunch of eights would be like really good in this hour. But like when you're actually, you know, trying to put together like a thing that the purpose of this is just pure stand up, you go. Most eights don't usually make the cut.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

And then also there's. There's usually, you know, I could, I maybe like had a idea of like what type of stuff where. Remember there was one joke where you're like, I don't really get this one. And I'm like, listen, I obviously do what you want, but I'm like, I'm telling you, that's the one that'll get.

[Chris Williamson]

That was the Amber Hood. That's the Amber Heard. Yeah, I. I was like, all right. Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

No, I could just tell you and.

[Chris Williamson]

Sure enough did it, and it destroys. And I was like, that's. Yeah, it's just. It's so wild. But, yeah, to. To think about, like, the capacities that your friends have and to go, oh, I just get to see you, and you sort of usually do this thing, and then you actually saw the.

[Ryan Long]

You last time. So when I. I. The special that I just released, you came and saw the second time I started putting that hour together here. Yes, that was like the second time I started putting that together. And then that was a two out, two years later.

[Chris Williamson]

What else have you got? Have you got anything else that you want to go through?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. Okay. I brought it home. Yeah, I told you. I brought a couple of, like, points that I've been thinking about for the last, like, few. A few days that. So I was thinking that in politics, you can either be the funner side or the more righteous side, and you can't be both. And it always kind of switches back. And whoever's the funner side side, it's too delectable for them to not start being the righteous side, because it's like, righteous. Like, being righteous is like, so maybe not addictive is the right word. It's so appealing. Like, you just want to. So. But the funner side usually does better. But when you're the funner side and then that expands the funner side can't help but start being the righteous side. Once you have, like, a movement, who's the funnest side? So you built a movement with the funner side. I think right now. Now it clearly, like, obviously at one point, the liberals were the funner side. They became the less fun side. I think that Republicans became the funner side now, probably, like, you know, the. I mean, they were the OG like, it is funny. It's funner to just be like, fuck yeah, America, guns like jet skis, than to be, you know, telling you what you know you can tweet or whatever. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

Federal Reserve and immigrants.

[Ryan Long]

And now I think that the. The draw to be righteous is, like, very strong on both, in my opinion, right now. So I feel like I feel righteousness coming at me from both ways.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, it's interesting getting spit roasted by.

[Ryan Long]

Righteousness feel like a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

It's. It's funny that definitely when Kamala got nominated first or whatever it was, it's all vibes, and we're just brat summering our way through. She's so cool. And it was Memes and all the rest of it. But you do have this very moralistic side that's righteous because Roe vs. Wade and abortion is such a key part.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Talking point. So you can't, like, you can't speak non seriously about what you're saying is an existential threat to 50% of the entire fucking country.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

So you can't fuck about with it. But then you've got this sort of brand and I guess with Trump as well, his whole thing is to be the. I'm going to flip the table over, I'll drain the swamp. I'll say funny things. Yeah, well, yeah, but if you do that, what are you actually going to like? We've got all of these problems. What about the communists? You can't call them communists. And just like meme lord your way through tweeting and truth, socialing, everything.

[Ryan Long]

It kind of is in real life too. There's a little bit of, you know, definitely in comedy where you go, you know, it's very attractive to kind of be like the, I don't even pay attention to that. But then like, once you do, it's like, it's hard to go back, you know, you, I think that was the big problem like liberals had is they all kind of were like scolding you and then they went back to trying to be silly and you're like, what the. It's like you always see on stage, a guy will, there'll be like an audience member, he'll start yelling, get the out. Blah, blah, blah. And he's like, you, this is a real show. And then he, then he tries to go back to like, so I'm on the bus. And you know, it's just like ridiculous. Right. But I think that on, in people, it's like, people, it's like funner to be the, like, you know, I'm not, I don't, whatever. And then, but then it's attractive to be like, okay, actually, this is ridicul. Like, so it's very, there's always a pull to go be the righteous.

[Chris Williamson]

Baggy to loose. Loose to baggy.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Tight to tight to baggy. Baggy to tight. Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Tight to baggy. Baggy to tight. I guess it's back to that. Yeah, I, I think that I, I, I had a funny theory that, you know how girls put guys in friend zones, right. So people say, well, what's the guy version of that? Right? And the guy version of that is grandmother treatment. So if like, so a girl puts a guy in a friend zone because for girls, like that's a, you know, male friend is like really the most non sexual thing. Like you know, whereas a guy, you'd be like, yeah, I'm. I could be friends with a girl and her. But like the guys see friends as higher. So girls, when they treat a guy like a friend, it's very like a little brother, like a friend. Those are like a like very. No, the least sexual, that's the lowest run. Whereas guy version of that is grandmother. So you would never talk about anything real. You would never talk about anything sexual. And you, I'm sure you have women in your life like that you're like, oh, how's it going? Like, you know, they be. And if they ever said something sexual like, oh, that guy's hot. You're like, yeah, he seems to be doing pretty good. Like you would never engage with anything sexual. She'd be like, I'm masturbating. You'd be like, speaking of pregnancy, Nancy's having another kid. Like, you would never engage anything like sexual. The grandmother treatment is the guy version of friendzone.

[Chris Williamson]

But when does that get deployed? Who uses that ever?

[Ryan Long]

I would say, where do I deploy friend grandmother treatment? I would say a lot of people that are like your coworkers for example.

[Chris Williamson]

Right, okay. You know, all of the female co workers you've got.

[Ryan Long]

I would say, okay, I'm. There's no like, okay, I'm sure. Listen, you're a good looking guy. Girls like you, obviously. I would imagine that if you show up to a city like Austin, there's plenty of girls that are like around that you would probably make a lot of enemies if you just like ran through a bunch of the hot girls in a city. So you're smart enough to not do anything like that. You're not that guy anyway.

[Chris Williamson]

But friends, girlfriends, friends, ex girlfriend, whatever, shit like that.

[Ryan Long]

Exactly right. So you. So you would probably just not do that stuff because.

[Chris Williamson]

Or your friend's girlfriend, that's actually a really fucking good one. So.

[Ryan Long]

So you would treat them like the way you treat your grandma.

[Chris Williamson]

That's so funny. You're actually really right. I'm now starting to find like little pockets of girls that fit into that. Friends Ex girlfriends are a big one.

[Ryan Long]

Friends ex girlfriends is the perfect grandmother treatment and you get ultimate grandmother treatment. You're very pleasant to them. You're very nice.

[Chris Williamson]

You basically sort of.

[Ryan Long]

You might be overly nice to them.

[Chris Williamson]

You've detached your penis and like left it outside.

[Ryan Long]

The penis is not in the. Yes, it's so gone.

[Chris Williamson]

You're actually.

[Ryan Long]

And opinions. You might not tell them opinions either.

[Chris Williamson]

So the grandmother treatment is gay best friend. That's basically what you're trying to position yourself as.

[Ryan Long]

Yes.

[Chris Williamson]

You're like talking about, oh, your hair looks lovely and isn't it nice outside.

[Ryan Long]

Friend would probably drift into the. Then I was. Your hair looks lovely. But if she ever said she. If. Okay. If you're. If your grandmother bet Ex friend or so if she was like. Give you a really extreme political opinion. Right. And it could be, it could literally be like, you know, like this Hitler guy's actually the man. You'd be like, everyone has good points. Like there's no way you're not engaging.

[Chris Williamson]

Just don't engage at all with anything. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. There was a time when I was in the gym not too long ago and one of my friend's ex girlfriends like had this crop top thing on and took a crop top off. Huge fake boobs. One nipple was out and I was like, fucking hot day today, isn't it? And like, have you seen There's a dog over there. And I didn't even tell her. I was like, I'm gonna let someone else. I'm gonna let somebody else sort of. She walks away. That was like a bad friend thing to do. But it was like the. Almost the second hand sort of grandmother. Like I can't. I can't not.

[Ryan Long]

I can't. There's no. I don't want anyone to know that I've seen your boob. I don't want you to know. I don't want me to know. I definitely don't want to address it.

[Chris Williamson]

Single titty. One. One titty that's out. But no, that's a really. That's a really great point. The friend zone thing is so. I mean it's become like people.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. They go, oh, what's the female equivalent? That's what it is in my opinion. Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Friends, ex girlfriends and current friends. Girlfriends and shit like that. And like the orbits are thing or like people that your boys. You know that your boy fancies her. So you're like, I'm. I can. I gotta do.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. The only thing you're talking about is how sick he is.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. The gay best friend thing comes in again. Yeah, dude, great.

[Ryan Long]

What kind of other quick one. Just about that was. There was sort of. I was thinking about. I. There's this girl that I knew that she said she was like a. I knew the girl and the guy and they were friends forever and then they Were. Then they ended up being together, but they've been friends for six years. And someone was like, why were you. What took you so long? And she goes, honestly, it never even crossed my mind. And I was like, that, like, stuck with me where I was like, no, guys, you know, it crossed his mind. You know what I mean? Like, no guys known a woman for six years and it's like, it's never crossed your mind. And I was thinking about. I think that, like, men treat our thoughts like a. Men treat our thoughts sort of like a friend that's a piece of shit. That's like, yo, you should try to fuck that girl. And you're like, no, we're not. They're not doing that. He's like, yo, we should party tonight. You're like, I told you, I'm having like three beers. Like, and women treat their brains like an abusive ex boyfriend. And they defend it because they'll write about, like, articles being like, it's actually pretty reasonable to be drunk texting your ex. So. So, because guys thoughts are more aggressive. So they're like, yo, do all. And you're like, we know we can't let. We don't defend our own brain because we're like, this guy's. This guy's too much, man.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Like, whereas girls, like, they defend their thoughts. Like, there's not. I'm not weird for thinking this.

[Chris Williamson]

Nothing wrong with your best friend's brother actually could be the right guy for you.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. They write the article defending the crazy shit that they're thinking.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

So that's my other one.

[Chris Williamson]

Dude. I think that I can't stop thinking about that grandmother thing about grandmother treatment. Real.

[Ryan Long]

I've kind of. I. You know what? I had a old saying that me and my friends used to say forever. That just came back. It kind of just. Grandmother treatment reminds me of if it's not related. But I said, we used to always joke that when, like, you know, if you're dating a girl and it's been like three or four months and she's kind of like, what is this? We used to always say our one friend was an expert at it. You play the groggy, tired guy where you're kind of like, maybe like, talk about this tomorrow. It's kind of like. Like an employee or like an employee being like, you know, we said we're going to talk about the raise. You're like, I don't know, you know, what time is it? Even? Like, you basically act like you're really groggy. Like, in the morning like, hey, no, I down to have this conversation.

[Chris Williamson]

I was like very forgetful.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, you act like you're just so groggy, right? And we said our one friend was like always looking groggy so he could never get a new like, you know, he'd never get tricked into a relationship because he's so groggy. But it's like a joke we used to say. But then I was watching like interview. I. I was watching a lot of the like, stuff, the interviews with rappers when I was getting into the Drake and Kendrick stuff because I'm from Toronto and I was saying all rappers do the groggy tired guy to every question. Like if you watch like no jumper like Adam22 and stuff, they'll be like, you know, where were you the night of this? And he's like, yo, why you asking? What? Like every rapper dodges every question by doing the groggy tired man. It's like, it's kind of brilliant. You dodge every question and you act.

[Chris Williamson]

Like pretending like you're not in the room.

[Ryan Long]

You're like, what? I don't even. I barely know my name right now. Like that seems like a lot for. I don't think.

[Chris Williamson]

What do you think? Speaking of the rapper Beef, I really didn't pay, I haven't paid anywhere near enough attention to the P. Diddy stuff. I know the outline of the story. We don't need to, we don't need to do a 30,000 foot view of a thousand boxes.

[Ryan Long]

I'm not getting a lot of them done too.

[Chris Williamson]

Is that in any way linked to rap world? The rap world? Or is it all just culture and like weird sex party stuff? Or is it going to end up being that he was looped in with some other rapper that ended up.

[Ryan Long]

Well, depends who you ask, man. If you ask the rap, I don't.

[Chris Williamson]

Know how deep the fucking rabbit hole of this goes.

[Ryan Long]

I mean there's always that community that's just like all of Hollywood and rap is trying to make black dudes banged guys. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

You were the first person to ever teach me about when we were texting about the Katt Williams thing.

[Ryan Long]

Oh, you didn't know about it?

[Chris Williamson]

I didn't know. And you were like, oh, this is the meme of Hollywood. That Hollywood just tries to put black men in dresses.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And I texted you, I was like, what? You're like, you mean you don't know? Like this is the meme?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, right.

[Chris Williamson]

Because I had no idea.

[Ryan Long]

It's not a thing.

[Chris Williamson]

I had no idea that but that's. This is maybe a further continuing. So P. Diddy.

[Ryan Long]

Well, it's like every comedian, they're like, they always make them in a draft. And Chappelle said it and Kat Williams, and Dick Gregory was like, if you watch Dick Gregory, like, he has these old videos on, you know, YouTube, and it's just like. I mean, I'm sure there's, you know, like, anything. There's some truth to it and not truth, but it's literally like every move that was ever made in history is to make me suck a dick. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it goes deep, right? And to me, as a white guy, like, obviously, I find, you know, I find guys in dresses funny. I find, you know, gay shit funny. So. So when they're, you know, they're always saying this and they're like, they're always trying to make black guys in dresses. I'm like, every one of my comedian friends is also wearing a dress. You're like. You're like, no, we're wearing them too. Like, you know, But I guess it's. It's white. I think of what it is is, like, white and Jewish. Like, Hollywood writers writing white sensibilities for, you know, black guys that are like, they don't realize that, like, yo, this guy's going to get killed if he does that. Like, the same way that right now, if you're like, hey, if I go out, if you're just like a normal commentator that's like, you know, maybe associated with, like, the UFC or something, but you're not like a political guy guy coming out and being like, you gotta get vaxxed and you got, you know, just like, maybe all that stuff. You're like, you do realize this. This isn't, like, free for me. Like, these opinions have, like, a lot of weight in the communities that I'm part of. And I think that, you know, feminizing yourself to, like, black culture, they're like, that's the number one. You sold out, right? So they see it as like, you're. I'm sure there's both. Maybe there is some, you know, control components. But I think a lot of it is like, you know, writers that are guys like me writing stuff for, you know, black guys and being like, yeah. And then you guys kiss without realizing that. They're like, yo, his community is going to, like, obliterate him if he does that.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

So I think some of it's that.

[Chris Williamson]

You know, what it carries the weight of with all of the. It is a. The I, again, I totally didn't realize. And I said this to you when I watched the Cat Williams thing. Like, it is, you know, when you hear somebody that speaks, a Mexican person or whatever, like an Asian person or whatever, that's speaking your language, but the way that they speak, like, the pacing that they speak at and the cadence and the accent and the pronunciation of the word everything. You kind of need to tune an old radio in and you're like, oh, there we are. There we are. I'm fucking in. And it's like, that was like listening to Katt Williams on Club Shake Shake.

[Ryan Long]

I'm like, what?

[Chris Williamson]

There it is.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, you click it.

[Chris Williamson]

I'm not trying to beat Match. I'm DJ trying to beat Match. And I'm phase phasing it up. I'm. I'm. I'm out of phase. Ah, there it is.

[Ryan Long]

I'm locked in.

[Chris Williamson]

It just took. It just took time for me to. To really get it. And. And then you realize, oh, this is an entire other world. This is. The references are different. The people they're talking about are different, the way they're talking about things different. Their assumptions about the world are different. And you go like, shock horror. Person from different culture has different worldview than you. Like, who's surprised by this? Nobody. But I think it was one of the first.

[Ryan Long]

And it's a different culture in a different culture, because you're not even American.

[Chris Williamson]

Double different culture. But I think. And I've. I keep talking about this. When you're an immigrant in a country that speaks the language that you speak, you're off the knickknacks. You've no.

[Ryan Long]

I have knickknacks.

[Chris Williamson]

You've spat.

[Ryan Long]

Dude, I'm loving these, by the way. We have them in our studio. Good. We have them on our. On our show all the time.

[Chris Williamson]

You're on the rotation between Newton and Knickknack.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, Danny loves him too.

[Chris Williamson]

Stimulated. When you're an immigrant in a country that speaks the same language that you do, you forget that you're an immigrant because if you're in again, Guatemala or fucking France or something, you know, you're permanently reminded of the fact that you're not from there, but when everybody understands you, it kind of creeps up on you. And then every so often, you try to use some cultural artifact or history thing or, you know, somebody from your. Your pop culture in your past or whatever, and you go, oh, I can't. I can't. I can't use that. I can't say that thing. I need to say. So that's kind of like, you know, Bill Cosby or like, you know, Kool Aid or whatever. And you think, what is the thing.

[Ryan Long]

That I think wants to hear your Queen Elizabeth references.

[Chris Williamson]

Exactly. Yeah. No one get. No one gets my battle of Hastings, like, talking points. So, so very much with that.

[Ryan Long]

Bill Burr had a thing once where he said he goes the number one or my. I think it was Bill Burr, but it might have been someone else. But he was like, the number one way to start sounding old in your comedy is your references are dated. And it was like, I might have been Chris Rock actually one of those guys. But yeah, he was basically like, that's. You know, it's like, it's crazy the extent to which like old things are just relevant, but you just got to change a few words.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, but so listening to change Britney.

[Ryan Long]

Spears to Taylor Swift, like, you know what I mean?

[Chris Williamson]

It's basically the same talking points, though. I mean, Britney Spears, it's been a little while since she's popped up on my timeline, but my God, that period where she like got access to her phone back again and it looked all kind of serial killer y, but it was an iPhone 5 or something. And you go, Britney, like, if you're gonna do dances in the like entrance hallway to your mansion and don't record it on a potato, it's just the best.

[Ryan Long]

I had a bit of a contrarian view on that. And I want to go back to the British thing because I actually listened to your interview with that British guy talking about the differences and I thought it was really cool. But the Britney thing, I was thinking and I'm like, you was like that where I felt I was in the mob. Everyone's like, free this woman. And then she got her phone back and everyone was like, maybe she'll be back in the thing. Right? And it was just like. And then I remember a guy that I tweeted, he was like, we should have never had freed her. I go, what do you mean we? Like, do you think that you like, that's how. That's what Internet does to us.

[Chris Williamson]

Like you're a guy being like self employed.

[Ryan Long]

I should have never let Britney out. Like back in the dungeon with her. And I was also like, if showing your tits on camera gets you put back in your dungeon, like, I got news for half this country. So I was kind of laughing at.

[Chris Williamson]

Like, I also wasn't your own self importance.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah. You're kind of like, ah, we shouldn't have. Like, what the. We like yeah, we all part of the mob.

[Chris Williamson]

And like, what were you talking about the uk?

[Ryan Long]

I thought it was interesting. Like, I. When you. The main things you were saying about how, you know, you'll have. Why are people more successful here? What is it about that? And it was, you know, you were saying, there's a lot of funny people in Britain. Why are all the comedians here? And there's this element of, you know, the crabs in a bucket of like, oh, yeah, you're gonna go be a famous. Like, that's who you think. Oh, yeah. Like, you think you're like, oh. And that is a funny instinct. And a lot of the better people have that instinct of being like, oh, you think you're so good. So how do you, you know, how do you, you know, remove that, like, you know, shame and find the balance of, you know, how do you find the. There's kind of two things. One is if you, if you be too nuanced, you won't ever say anything. Right. Also, if you be too cool, you'll never say anything. Right? If you're like, too cool for everything and too nuanced for everything. And like. And then also, like, you never. You're too cool to fail, which means you never try anything.

[Chris Williamson]

Yep.

[Ryan Long]

And I think that's, you know, it's a lot of that too, right.

[Chris Williamson]

Too much care and attention and not enough care and attention and too much pride.

[Ryan Long]

You know, like, there's pride.

[Chris Williamson]

It's funny that the self deprecation and the sort of sardonic wit and the sort of cutting elements of British culture are awesome, but they're also. They cause you to be in stasis because you're so fucking terrified of doing anything in case people take the piss.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

So the very thing that makes you potentially funny is also the very thing that makes you terrified of trying to.

[Ryan Long]

Be funny and also makes you a pussy. Like, you know what I mean? And I don't just mean you, I mean, like, I mean, you know, me or, you know, British commentators, a lot of times I see that it's like, yeah, so sometimes it can make you, like, not bold.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, that's why. That's why someone like Piers Morgan, for instance, is a bit of an outlier. Like, you don't have a massive number of people, people that have got most British people, if you're going to get them and port them over and they're going to do that kind of thing, are going to be James Corden, they're not going to be Piers Morgan. Right? Piers Morgan just fucking he'll fight you on the beaches and he'll like hold your feet to the fire and Ben Shapiro, you and your gun rights like what, 15 years ago that that debate was had and he's still doing it now. It's about Hamas or it's about Ukraine or it's about P. Diddy or it's about whatever. Like he's just still wielding a big flame sword. He did it in the US he did it in the UK Again you go, huh? Yeah, that's it. Ricky Ges like just overcame the concern about it and then goes and just scorches. What was it, the, the Oscars or the Golden Globes?

[Ryan Long]

Hollywood's Oscars.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, that he did that with. And you go, oh, okay. That's what happens when someone's able to retain their ability to be cutting but reaches escape velocity to get out from the self doubt.

[Ryan Long]

And he still has his Britishness in him. Like he's, you know, in a way he, you know, kind of disappears for a bit and then comes back like he doesn't seem like he's, you know, lives kind of a modest life. He doesn't have this like, why am I not a movie star? Because to be honest, there could be that like, why am I, you know, why didn't I become Jim Carrey? Like, you know, he might, he could easily have that attitude, but he kind of is like, no, I'm, you know, happy with my lot and whatever. Which is in some ways British. Very British cultures in America go, start, go from like, oh, here's a new thing to like every variation of this has been corporatized within like corporatized and sold within like two years. Like what would be an example of that?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Okay, I'll pick a comedy thing and then I'll pick a like business thing. In comedy. I would say crowd work would be an example of where a comedians kind of realize that, oh like doing crowd work would be like a good way and people like it and it works well with algorithms. Right. And I think that like people from where I'm from, people from, you know, London have a little bit of like, yeah, I'll do a bit of that, but I'm not going to. You know. Whereas in America it was just like within a year you saw every person be like, this is my whole thing. To the point. It got to the point where people were like almost sick of seeing it. That took a year, right?

[Chris Williamson]

The meme cycle was in and out in the space. Like Jimmy Carr's done it. It blew up. Let's try it, intro it get too much and then it's old.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. And you could say that with like a genre of. Of, you know, reality shows, you know.

[Chris Williamson]

I would say, well, superhero movies. Right. How long did it go from Iron Man 1, like 2006, 2008, something like that, to Avengers Endgame and then after that like Thor 4. He's doing Jean Claude Van Damme splits over a set of lorries.

[Ryan Long]

Sure.

[Chris Williamson]

So there's this cool critical drinker. Do you know him? The sweary Scottish guy, guy. He taught me about this. It's pretty cool. There's four phases, I think, to any media movement. I think it tracks with what you're talking about here as well. So I think there's introduction, growth, maturity and parody. And it starts off. Starts off with something that's new, it's groundbreaking. Let's say it's Iron Man. No one's ever seen this before. It's like slick and sexy as a superhero. It's kind of not as dark as all the dc and then the growth, you end up still sort of building on what you've done previously. That's like Iron Man 2 and 3. You've got Captain America, you've got Ant man, you've got all of these other bits and pieces. Then you've got maturity, which is. We kind of know what to expect now. It's not so much about further establishing ourselves, it's about rinse and repeat. It feels comfortable. But then you've got parody. When you get to parody, that's when you're in decline. And that's when Chris Hemsworth is made to be the butt of every joke. He's kind of this big lumbering idiot. He's a caricature of himself when he was in intro, growth and maturity. And he is the joke is everything's meta. Nothing's actually about the Thing. We've seen this with Suicide Squad that you have to make a movie about superheroes, about bad guys. Because it can't just be good looking man or woman has good intentions, overcomes difficult things and saves the world. World. No, it has to be this weird upside down meta commentary.

[Ryan Long]

You know how quickly it moves in America that people are left still doing the parody when the Thing doesn't exist anymore.

[Chris Williamson]

It's dead and they're still flogging this.

[Ryan Long]

But that's only. That's like. That doesn't happen in other places because the things go on for so long.

[Chris Williamson]

Like that's the corporatized squeezing and. Yeah. Do you remember when.

[Ryan Long]

How Many like I'm always one of my favorites is like every comedian doing. And I love doing it too. It's almost become its own genre. But like the old school cop like Riggs, you know I'm getting too old for this. Like, you know that it was like no one's making those movies but everyone's making parodies of those movies. So the things comes and goes so quick that the parody out lives like the.

[Chris Williamson]

That's.

[Ryan Long]

You go. You're making fun of something that doesn't exist.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes, but everybody knows. Everybody knows about the parody.

[Ryan Long]

That's how quick things move.

[Chris Williamson]

The parody phase was longer than the lifespan of the actual thing.

[Ryan Long]

And there's so many. Anything kind of like that.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. What was your one business, you know.

[Ryan Long]

Emo or like genres of music that are like for four years that's all.

[Chris Williamson]

You ever heard about Sleep Token T shirt.

[Ryan Long]

Oh yeah. You're into that stuff. I didn't know. Right, right, right.

[Chris Williamson]

Do you still listen to Scar?

[Ryan Long]

No. I was like a punk guy. But like which if when I was growing up like Rancid was kind of.

[Chris Williamson]

Like in my opinion, you and Huberman.

[Ryan Long]

They were. Yeah, yeah. I kind of like all the same as Huberman and But he was that when that band came out I think they were like very like defining and they had a bit of, you know that kind of like British punk and Scott influence. Then ska with the Bostones and everything really took over and I kind of like that stuff. But I was more into the kind of that the Rancid like to me that would be like the coolest band of my generation.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. I've decided decided that I'm going to start dressing like 15 year old me would have wished that he could have dressed if there was no if he had an unlimited budget for t shirts. Like $25t shirts. So I'm like in Neck Deep and Polaris and fucking Bad Omens and Sleep Token and Bring Me the Horiz Horizon. I'm like slowly trying to accumulate like all of the bands that I still listen to and used to listen to. I did this in a. You remember Silverstein? Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

You're like, why don't I just go buy 400 worth of t shirts?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. And that's going to last me for the next like year and a half. But it's kind of, you know, I'll treat myself.

[Ryan Long]

Silverstein.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

They're Canadian.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Discovering the Waterfront that the original, original, original record. I managed to find one of those T shirts like olive green with pink And I was like, I am. I don't care how much. This car. It was 35. It's like it could have been 350. And I was gonna buy that T shirt because it was like, something from 20 years ago that meant a lot to me. Bought it, wore it. I'm like, I love this. It's so cool.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

But you wear, like, band T shirts too.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, Funny.

[Ryan Long]

Sometimes I'll think of that. Like, sometimes it'll be like. A lot of times I'll be, what? One thing that'll happen now is a lot of the bands. The. I was so, like, involved in music that I'm A lot of these people I'm friends with, Right. And then. Or it'll be like, I'll talk about something and then the guy will like it and message me and we'll start talking. Then when that happens, I'll be like, you know what? Let me go buy a couple other shirts. So then I'll just go to their merch store and, like, buy a few shirts.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, that's pretty sweet.

[Ryan Long]

It's actually my special I just did that was like a pretty popular, like, you know, kind of like punk reggae band from Canada called Ill Scarlet. And they had a couple, like, pretty big hits. And he's like a good friend of mine, mine. And I actually wanted to put their song on the. My special. And that got popped for.

[Chris Williamson]

For copyright.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, exactly. It was a Sony song. I knew I wasn't going to be able to do it, but I didn't realize the extent to which it was going to be like the nightmare of my life for three months trying to get that song cleared.

[Chris Williamson]

You're kidding.

[Ryan Long]

Oh, it's a nightmare. And the guy was, like, trying to make it out. He was suave. He's like a buddy of mine. He was trying to make it happen, too.

[Chris Williamson]

So you. You. That's what you ended up using because it is a kind of scar.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a. Yeah. That was like a very, very popular episode.

[Chris Williamson]

The people that don't know, I guess if you don't make YouTube videos, why would you. You have to get sort of special dispensation to be able to use copyrighted music in your videos if you want to monetize them.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Good luck, I think. Yeah. Well, because you're basically allowing. It would be like Sony going, hey, have some of our money. You go, dude, this is.

[Ryan Long]

I was trying to pay them.

[Chris Williamson]

It's 20 seconds out of an hour and 20 second comedy special. It's the intro music to something that's taken me two years to write. Like, I'm not. Not. People aren't coming and going. Wow, I can't wait to re. Listen to that 20 seconds. So I never stream that song from Sony directly again.

[Ryan Long]

Sure, yeah. I mean, that's even 100. True. But even. And. And the band signed off on it. But, like, they have a deal, and that's the deal. But, like, more importantly than that, I wasn't trying to do this for free. I was trying to pay for my money.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, please take my money.

[Ryan Long]

You know, they'd put me onto some guy. He would put me onto some guy. He put me onto some guy. That guy would take a week and, like, probably like a. It took me, like, four or five weeks of, like, badgering people to, like, just get someone that would talk to me.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, I suppose that shows just how rare it is for anybody to use licensed music on YouTube, which kind of sucks.

[Ryan Long]

Maybe that's part of it too. Or maybe, like, they see it as, like, you know, small potatoes.

[Chris Williamson]

All right. If fucking Dave Chappelle had come and had, like, a million. He was my first special on YouTube, and he go, oh, my God, it's going to be to 200 million.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. Maybe I could have got someone's attention a little easier.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Or. Or, you know, maybe. Maybe the song, maybe the thing.

[Chris Williamson]

Right. Okay.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

How many people are bothered about this particular. What?

[Ryan Long]

Whereas if they have someone that's even, like, dealing with their files right now.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. Kamala comes and says, we want Taylor Swift to be our new campaign thing, and it's going to be the front and center. Okay. This is like, two big deals.

[Ryan Long]

Either way. It was a nightmare, but I'm glad I got it figured out.

[Chris Williamson]

That's good. Yeah. We use an MGK cover for a vlog recently, and I didn't realize it's because you want to monetize the video. If you don't monetize the video, I think you can get away with it, like, significantly more easily. But it's that they don't want you to nab any of the adsense from them. And a bunch of people messaged and were like, dude, how did you use mg? Like, do you know mgk? Well, he's like a friend's friend. But I just think, turn ads off. Think if you turn ads off, you can do it. Everything gets fixed. You could use, like, whatever you Queen and Michael Jackson.

[Ryan Long]

The problem with that for my specific thing is I needed to make sure that it wasn't going to get flagged.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

So you need to look at the monetization to find that, but you can't because you don't have that. If it, if it's, if it's someone else, turn it on.

[Chris Williamson]

Game off.

[Ryan Long]

So I couldn't look to find out if I was getting flagged, which I needed. So that's why I needed to have this cleared properly so I could do it. Do you look at. I have a, I have a buddy that he runs the Hard Times, the website, the funny comedy website and I used to do stuff with them and he, he, he's, he's like a entrepreneur and he's like, you know, built and sold some successful companies and stuff like that. But everything he does is back to like punk. Like, you know, he'll be like in these meetings with like really high end people and he'll tell me about them and it's always funny to me. He'll be like, you know, oh yeah, it's like kind of like when you're selling T shirts, like everything's back to like punk tourism. Right. And I kind of feel like that like I kind of look at everything like a little like music, which is why I look things maybe different than a lot of comedians even though I've been doing this for 15 years and way longer than the other stuff. But it's like you're. So my question is, do you look at like everything kind of like club promoting a little bit?

[Chris Williamson]

Correct?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, like all the time.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

The one thing you.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, all the time. What's the only thing you. It's like, what do you know best? You know how there's a rule. I need to learn this because I keep meaning to bring it up. There's something that happens between the ages of 12 and 17. The music that you listen to when you're going through puberty is like ossified. It's locked in, concretized in you for the rest of your life. You'll always, it seems on average have a warm place in your heart for the music that you listen to during that period. And maybe it's because of what you were going through as life experiences or maybe it's something to do with brain development at that time.

[Ryan Long]

Well, my theory is what I said earlier, which is that, well, you're actually a part of the culture that created it and you'll never have that again.

[Chris Williamson]

But what if there's a guy who's 35? When you're 35, making music for people that are 35 does that not mean that you would be part of that culture. There, there's something like.

[Ryan Long]

I wouldn't call that a culture because.

[Chris Williamson]

Old people don't have culture kind of.

[Ryan Long]

No, I mean that's a little bit true. They might have like thought culture but like I don't think that, to be honest, I don't think that they really do have like music and fashion culture. That is like a young man's game.

[Chris Williamson]

Your identity gets captured in it.

[Ryan Long]

You can be like a popular artist. But if, if you, if you have a culture, it's young people. Like what you convinced a hundred bunch of 35 year olds to change their entire identity to like people don't like change their identity really at that point, you know what I mean?

[Chris Williamson]

That's a good point.

[Ryan Long]

And start dressing a different way.

[Chris Williamson]

And you know, so in the same way as that happens with music when you're young, I think that whatever the first thing that you learn to sort of frame the world, especially the world of business, networking, social networks, stuff like, like that, whatever that is, you just sort of, I'm sure if you were a trader, if me and you had been traders straight out of college or whatever, like right. Working at Goldman Sachs, the 80 hour weeks and the three gram bags of cocaine and you go for the rest of your life you would just be talking about free alpha and you know like there's a lot of volatility in the system today. You just use.

[Ryan Long]

I do that a little now but yeah, I know, of course I get your point.

[Chris Williamson]

You would have that as the frame. So I guess that's a beat up.

[Ryan Long]

Well, the lessons are all like universal but you need to plug in like, you know, it's just like if you're teaching math to someone, it's like, you know, what's the thing? You're like okay, this guy's selling apples.

[Chris Williamson]

Like so app, give me a analogy.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, so every, you need, you need kind of like a. Yeah. A world, a world that you have you funnel every lesson through in some way because the lessons are somewhat universal I guess. Right.

[Chris Williamson]

Almost everything is how can we make this queue look longer? Which is basically how can you make something look more popular than it is if you need to play with that level of popularity. So in, in nightclub clubs, the length of the queue is indicative of how busy and popular the event is. But the length of the queue is determined more by the width of the queue than the number of people in it. So you can just make a longer queue by taking it from five people wide to three People wide. So if you push the barriers up against the wall, it makes the queue way longer. So we realized if we kept it two people wide, we only needed. We needed fewer doorstaff because they couldn't push as much. And it made the queue look fucking massive.

[Ryan Long]

So you're always kind of like, is this actually bigger?

[Chris Williamson]

Did they make it look Exactly, Exactly. Have they just created this funnel that sort of squeezes stuff down? One of the other cool things that we did. There's this problem in the UK. Nightclubs are open pretty much everywhere until 2 or 3 in the morning in a city center. And a lot of the city centers have got residences that live there. And not everyone is obviously a degenerate student that's supposed to be awake at that time. So noise abatement orders, as they're called, trying to reduce the number of like, antisocial incidents that occur and the amount of noise that people make. So we were thinking, what is a way that we can get people into taxis quickly, shut them up and sober them up as they walk out of the door? One of the things that we decided was we're going to give like little kids lollies out buckets. Like good looking girls stood on the door with buckets of lollies. People would take them, put them in their mouth and they'd shut up because they had a lolly in their mouth and they're busy tasting this nice thing and everyone would just shut up. So we managed to fix all of our noise abatement problems by just giving. I've given away all of the secrets of my whole business here.

[Ryan Long]

Well, you're not doing it anymore.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, my business partner is though, so you might still want them anyway. Sorry, Darren, but we gave those out and it sobered people up a little bit, got them into taxis more quickly. It was like all of these tiny little things.

[Ryan Long]

That's great. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

I'm always thinking about, like, all right, what, what's one of the things that we can do to improve people's exit experience and make them behave in the way that we want? So like little bits and pieces like that. I mean, you do. Comedians know this intuitive. You have a peak of the set and then you have an end of the set. And often those two things are the same. Right. You often finish on very strong jokes or one of the strongest jokes.

[Ryan Long]

Kind of like the classic theory.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, but why? Well, it's because the way that human memory works when we're remembering experiences, the most emotionally intense and the last part of the experience are the two that stick in memory the most. So it's called the peak end rule. So Daniel Kahneman got super famous for. For this work they got people to do. I think it was like colonoscopies or endoscopies or something. And they were able to track how long someone had been under this procedure and the amount of movement of the camera or whatever. More movement of the camera would mean more discomfort. So that should be higher pain. And obviously, if it's over a longer period of time, people should also find it more uncomfortable because it's been more pain for longer. Right. If pain is like intensity times duration.

[Ryan Long]

Okay.

[Chris Williamson]

In retrospect. So first iteration of the study, they did this particular procedure, finished it, and got people to rate in retrospect how painful it was. Second version of the study, they did the exact same procedure, but then just left the camera in for a while, a minute or a couple of minutes, not moving. So there was significantly less pain at the end, even though objectively it had existed for longer. So it should be more. Should be more uncomfortable. But retrospectively, people in the second group rated it way more comfortable than people in the first group, even though objectively it was more uncomfortable. Why? Well, because the end, which is one of the most important things that people remember about an experience, was the thing that they colored most of the experience with, which is the reason why comedians should finish on the best joke. Bands should finish on their most popular song. Nightclubs should ensure that the way that they finish a night is with everybody's hands in the air and all the rest of it. If you've got a kid that's scared of going to the dentist, what you shouldn't do is allow them to leave while they're still scared. You should leave them in there so that their lingering memory of that thing is the.

[Ryan Long]

That's actually a pretty good point.

[Chris Williamson]

Dentist being nice. They give them a sticker. Do you ever get stickers when you went to the dentist?

[Ryan Long]

I had like, a little dinosaurs and.

[Chris Williamson]

Stuff, A little passbook. And each time I went in. So what is it? Well, you're excited because you sticker at the end.

[Ryan Long]

And I don't think you could buy me off with a sticker. That's.

[Chris Williamson]

Were you too clever for that?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, you were a little easier to buy off peak.

[Chris Williamson]

Look, dude, I was hate the simple British man, Pete Kendrell. And every comedian uses it.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, it's. It. It's laws of nature like that that you want to sometimes fight against, but they don't. It is. I feel like the same as, you know, all the stuff you do. But in comedy, you also realize, like, how manipulative the human brain is. And I'm sure, like, pickup artists and stuff like that, you know, realize that's why they become cynical a little bit. But I always think the one that's funny to me is, you know, like, obviously you do a, you know, three sets a night sometimes for, you know, 15 years or whatever it is. Like you, you know, exactly. Like, this was better. This was better, right? If. So, I've had a few jokes where. Where kind of the. I did one of my special. Where I was kind of doing like a thing about pedophiles, if you remember. And then I kind of. The joke was like, oh, no, you guys don't want that. And then I kind of did something worse and I'm like, okay, no one laughed at that. But I. I just say that, like, it actually gets a big laugh. I just say, like, oh, nothing on, like, because the joke is I'm going to keep doing something. I'm going to keep. I. I just. It's like the joke is eventually that I just tricked you four times, right? But I've had a lot of people come up to me and being like, you know, they weren't, you know, obviously that crowd wasn't feeling that, but I thought that was the funniest part. And I'm like, yeah, everyone thought that. Like, I. I just said that. I just told you that no one was laughing. Everyone was actually laughing. But it's like, all it takes is for me to tell you, like, oh, you guys don't like that one, eh? And everyone in their mind was like, oh, no one likes that one. And then they come up to me be like, I don't know why no one liked that one. I'm like, you were there. You heard everyone. Like, but then I told you that no one laughed. And in your mind, you were like, you. You left me so you could. The opposite of that is you tell people like, oh, yeah, you guys really liked that one, eh? And they were just like, oh, I guess that joke killed. Yeah, like, you just tell them how they thought about things having so much fun.

[Chris Williamson]

Isn't this so great? I love being here. Well, I mean, it's the same as the.

[Ryan Long]

This is really fun. Hey, we're having a fun time.

[Chris Williamson]

I gotta tell you guys, you know, Dallas, you have been the best crowd of this entire tour. It's like, hey, guest, that's the script for everywhere. Why? Because it makes you feel special. I think there's A bit. Maybe this is just my only child syndrome coming through. But when I watch comedy, a lot of the time I think about the comedian and I think about my direct relationship with this person that doesn't know that I exist. And I think what you're playing into, maybe a little bit, that total bro science theory, what you might be playing into is people. Because all of my other ones are so.

[Ryan Long]

Well, love a good bro science theory, man.

[Chris Williamson]

I think that a good part of it is the audience really wants to feel like they're watching this person on stage that everybody's attention is on and is very admirable and competent, and they respect them and they kind of want to be that a little bit. And they're trying to find the bits of them that are like that, that are the center of attention, that are performance, that are superior. And if you tell people a thing that makes them feel like their realization was unique to them, them like, oh, we don't like that. We don't like that joke. And you think to yourself, what I did. And by liking it, I'm like, oh, I'm one of the chosen ones.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, I'm cool.

[Chris Williamson]

I'm one of his crew. Yeah, I'm cool. I wonder whether it plays into that.

[Ryan Long]

There's an old saying in Arda. I mean, I always just say everything's old saying. I don't know if it is old or not, but that it's like, you know, having an audience, a lot of times it's not about whether they like you, it's about. About whether they. Whether they want you to like them. You know, so if you have, like, an audience, like, really. If you're really killing. It's not so much that they're like, I love this guy. What they really are thinking is like, I think he would like me. You know what I mean? Like, oh, this guy would love. Like, this guy would like to hang out with me. And then they come out after you, like, yo, you're just one of my muddy bodies. You would love, like, they. And so there's this kind of a weird dichotomy where it's like, yeah, you're more so then. But if they want you to like them, them, like, because they're like, oh, this guy would like me. They want you to like them. And then all of a sudden they're like. They find themselves, like, trying to get into it more because they, like, want you to think they're cool.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. So there's this guy, Mike Israel. Have you come across. Yeah, we got him.

[Ryan Long]

On our podcast.

[Chris Williamson]

No fucking.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

How was that?

[Ryan Long]

Great. He's the best.

[Chris Williamson]

Ok. Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Mike. Mike was telling me this story, Funny dude, about why he learned game and pickup. And he said one of the reasons was that when he used to be very intimidated by attractive women and he just found himself not being able to be himself, so he'd be hanging out with them.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

And he'd be like laughing at jokes that aren't funny and like playing like, he was like, who. Who is this? Like, who is stepping inside of my skin?

[Ryan Long]

What are you doing?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah. And doing this thing. What. Because of you. Because it does something. So he was getting warped by that. And I suppose it's not too dissimilar to the audience seeing the comedian that they want to like them so like laughing, even giving more grace than they should to jokes that aren't that funny because they think, oh, well, I should.

[Ryan Long]

Make him like if I like subconscious there kind of. Yeah. With the. Mike is your thing too. I was thinking that with the red pill stuff, like, I. I think you've probably had this conversation, but you know, whether or not they have good points or bad points or whatever. But it's. It's kind of like there's the one central problem where for some guys, they. They put two girls on too much of a pedestal, which is that. And then you aren't able to like, not need them, which is like a very, you know, attractive thing for women is you don't need them. One of the ways to get there is to sleep with a ton of women. Now you have an abundance mindset. Yes, one of the ways, but it's not the only way. So I think that's real. You know what I mean? It's kind of like that is one path to solve that problem is like do everything you can to like get so good at women that now you've slept with a ton. And now it's like, oh, and now it's nothing.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes.

[Ryan Long]

But yeah, I think that the real answer is like, well, yeah, but you could also get there a different way.

[Chris Williamson]

Talking about the edge cases thing, I think that a lot of the dating advice online, maybe not quite so much the red pill stuff, but some of it, but especially the black pill, more incel world. A lot of that is edge cases. It's guys that are. I think in the incel community there's a 10x.

[Ryan Long]

Incel community is a funny word.

[Chris Williamson]

It exists the community of insults. There's 10 times the normal rates of autism in there. Right. So what you're talking about is by design a psychological like a non typical setup for men who are struggling with women. You go this proves that women are this, that and the other girl. Well you wouldn't say that for most other. You wouldn't say this proves that bicycles don't work because for people that have only got one leg that is, you know, only a small portion of the population.

[Ryan Long]

That's so funny saying they don't work the girls. You're like, girls are broken.

[Chris Williamson]

That's kind of, that's kind of it that like the typical mating. That's what, that's what blue pill is. Blue pill is like you believe the sort of Disney princess. The, the handsome charming guy is going to get the girl and he just needs to play along and be nice and all that stuff. And yeah, it's, it's like I think that much of dating advice is coming from edge cases both for men and for women.

[Ryan Long]

And it probably is going to. It's always that way because you're like who else needs it?

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, the people that are happily married. They're not trolling Reddit looking for like stories about how to get it back at her. That girl that broke your heart when you were this age. So yeah, it's the edge case thing is. Is interesting.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah that 100%. I always kind of felt that there's a lot of, there's a lot of. You know, even like when Jordan Peterson first came out, there was a part of it that I felt like he was really good at, you know, the make your bed talking to the 5% people. But to me I was kind of like I was more attracted to advice that's like okay, you're, you're pretty good at stuff how to, how to get great. You know what I mean? So that as opposed to like how to get out of bed which goes back to the.

[Chris Williamson]

You know that's a really interesting point because I've moved through the trajectory. I've been like each different really Level of like uselessness within the Jordan Peterson verse.

[Ryan Long]

That's interesting.

[Chris Williamson]

I went from I really need to hear that telling the truth is something very important. I'm basically a manchild at 27.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

To he is interesting and I admire the way that he debates sort of these important topics to now some of. Of the stuff that you're talking about symbolically to do with religion and the collapse of the Western Judeo Christian. I'm like it's maybe just not for me anymore. And I don't listen to the old stuff quite so Much either. But there's certain elements I really want to dig into. But it's like how grading systems in fucking Brazilian jiu jitsu work, right? Like, you start off as a white belt, and the techniques that you're learning as a white belt and the ways that you're using them when you're a black belt are very different. And that's what personal growth is. Now, for me, I needed the, like, hey, tell the truth. Stand up straight with your shoulders back. Stop being such a. Like, pick up a burden and carry it. Whatever his thing was, that was a big deal. And then as you start to grow, you go, okay, I need to let that go. What you hope is that the person you're learning from is growing with you. And one of the problems that you have of this is, goes back to your, like, are you a part of a scene? Are you part of a trend thing? What I think an advantage that you have if you are the same age as your audience as a writer, as a poet, as an artist, as a singer, as a whatever, is that you get to basically just be two steps ahead of where everybody that's consuming your shit is, and you just leave little breadcrumbs behind you. The way that you go, this would be the best older brother in the world. Or older.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. If someone gets too far ahead, they leave. So it's like, by design, it stays that way.

[Chris Williamson]

Yes. So you're just sort of chugging along and.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah, best older brother is a good way to find. That's the good. The advice you're supposed to be finding. Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

Like, here's a thing that I dealt with, and, oh, you're dealing with it now. And you're like four years behind me or whatever, or 10 years behind me or something like that. And I remember what it used to be like to be like that. And these are the challenges that you're going to face. And I was in it, too. And you go, fuck. But then as you keep.

[Ryan Long]

Sometimes you just need someone to be like, you're not crazy for thinking about that. That is actually a real problem that.

[Chris Williamson]

You need to solve such a big part of it to just feel less lonely. And like.

[Ryan Long]

Well, I wouldn't even. That's true. But I wasn't even saying on the lonely thing. I was saying thing like, okay, here would be like, a lot of, you know, tech and bro advice when it kind of started first popping off probably, you know, maybe 15 years ago. Right. The spot you've taken over. But, you know, a lot of it was very. I Remember, you know when you're trying to build something and then you're kind of like, you know, how do you tell like someone you're dating that you know, like, okay, can I slot. You know, oh, do you want to hang out? Like, how about Thursday? And girl being like, slot me in. And you're, and you in your mind, you're like, well, I can only run my life. And like, you know, and you're like, what? So you have like, oh, this is your mandatory like hanging out with me time for three hours. Like that, that. And, and, and that seemed like an unsolvable problem. That was kind of like. And I in some degree had probably written it off when I was younger to being like, your girls are a pain in the ass. Like, that's really where I probably ended up on that. But then I think there was people talking about, you're like, yeah, duh. Like, if you're trying to build something, like, people aren't going to be that receptive to it. Like, and you're going to have to figure out a way to like make that, you know, and, and I'll tell you what the answer isn't. Explaining to them over and over. Like, you don't understand. This is important and you need to be understanding of how I. That's. That ain't the answer. No, the answer is to sort of lie. Not lie, but like you almost kind of figure out the way to do this in a way that's like respectful of how they're going to see it. And like, and it's like a game. You're like, yeah, that's a hard equation and you need to like maneuver it. And it's like. Or don't. And stay where you are. Like, correct. Yeah. And it was like, but if you are going to try that, it's like building a company. It's not. Oh, you want an easy answer? You're like, no, this is hard. That actually is hard.

[Chris Williamson]

Well, you. There's that Thomas Sowell quote where he says there are no solutions, only trade offs. And yeah, fucking everything just comes back to that.

[Ryan Long]

So I was winning on the money or the hooker.

[Chris Williamson]

Correct.

[Ryan Long]

Can have.

[Chris Williamson]

Yeah, exactly. Unless you like killer afterwards, in which.

[Ryan Long]

Case now we're talking.

[Chris Williamson]

Speaking of that, there's this YouTube channel. I think it's got maybe 3,000 subs. It's called Tea Pallets and one of my friends sent me it earlier on. He's just like some kid on the Internet, but happens to be the best investigative journalist for Internet shit ever. So this hasn't even broken. But this kid has done a ton of work. He did. Just dropped a huge video on the Romanian mafia's links with Andrew Tate, and he's like, geolocated on Google Maps.

[Ryan Long]

Is he saying Tate's tapped into the.

[Chris Williamson]

They've left. Left. They've. So Tate told. Tate, said it himself, that he was working with the Romanian mafia. That was why he started all of these casinos with gambling stuff. Yes. So that was why he started them. And this kid has, like, geolocated on Google Maps, worked out where they are, then done Romanian Facebook photo caption analysis to reverse engineer where all of these guys are. Then he looked at their tattoos to work out which one was the captain. And there's different shaped stars for different levels of lieutenant and general and all within the fucking Romanian mafia. Like, looking at Romanian police records and trying, like, doing all of this shit, it's fucking wild.

[Ryan Long]

Sick.

[Chris Williamson]

But this gang, what he found out, they own all of these casinos and stuff, and it was mostly slot machines. It wasn't playing poker or whatever. And this gang, if someone won the jackpot, they would wait for them to collect their money, and when they went outside, just beat them up and take the money. Money back.

[Ryan Long]

Oh, pretty good. Yeah. Pretty good scam.

[Chris Williamson]

Absolutely. Like, flawless system.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah.

[Chris Williamson]

So there was this one video of this dude who wins $110,000 in Romanian rupees or whatever it is, and the machine's going off, and one of the attendants just comes over and unplugs the machine, bro.

[Ryan Long]

Wow.

[Chris Williamson]

It's crazy. This is the Romanian math. But they stated in some police report, the only reason I went down this rabbit hole is because Tate's having it out with Sean Strickland at the moment. Do you see that?

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. I mean, they've kind of been going back and forth for a long time.

[Chris Williamson]

Happened again, like today or whatever recently. But yeah, someone that wins money in your casino finding out because they need to put their address in where they live and then just going around to the house after they've won and they've got money and beating them up and taking your money back is the most GTA solution for this. Yeah, that's the killing the hooker after. So you can have your cake and eat it too, I suppose. Yeah.

[Ryan Long]

Okay. I gotta take a piss so bad. You wanna wrap?

[Chris Williamson]

We're all good. Where should people go? Special.

[Ryan Long]

Definitely check out my special. Seems like the response has been pretty good so far, so it just came out. YouTube.com Ryan Long Comedy Free on my channel. Check it out. My podcast is the boy's cast, but also, I'm just gonna say a few dates because I'm. I'm doing this crazy tour. But if you are, come out. The tours have been awesome, and I'm doing a new hour. Fort Wayne, Louisville, Saratoga Springs, Philadelphia, Nashville, Chicago, Las Vegas, Minneapol, as, Phoenix, Portland, and then more.

[Chris Williamson]

I appreciate you, man. Thank.

[Ryan Long]

Yeah. You're the best. All right, I'm up.

[Chris Williamson]

Go piss.