Modern Wisdom Episode #924: William Costello - What Netflix’s “Adolescence” Got Wrong

Release Date: April 5, 2025

Hosts: Chris Williamson and guest William Costello

Introduction

In this episode of Modern Wisdom, host Chris Williamson engages in a profound discussion with William Costello regarding the critically acclaimed Netflix miniseries "Adolescence." Costello, an expert in the field, provides an in-depth analysis of the show's portrayal of violence, masculinity, and the influence of online ideologies like the manosphere and incel communities.

Critique of "Adolescence"

1. Realism of Depicted Violence

Costello begins by addressing the realism of the violence portrayed in "Adolescence."

• Lack of Manosphere-Influenced Violence:
  “There is no epidemic of manosphere inspired violence like depicted in the show. Unlike, however, the epidemic of knife violence, which is a very real phenomenon...” [00:17]

• Comparison to Actual Incidents:
  “There has been no 13 year old white kid... suddenly going and stabbing a girl.” [02:03]

Costello emphasizes that while the show presents a plausible narrative, it does not accurately represent the current state of incel-related violence. He highlights the difference between the show's fictional portrayal and real-life incidents, noting the absence of similar tragedies influenced by the manosphere.

2. Representation of the Manosphere and Incel Demographics

Costello critiques the show's depiction of the manosphere, particularly regarding racial demographics.

• Overrepresentation of Ethnic Minorities:
  “Ethnic minorities are actually way over represented. Represented in their admiration of manosphere guys.” [05:50]

• Statistics on Andrew Tate's Approval:
  “I think it was like 12% rates of approval among white boys and that rose for Asian... and black boys it was much, much higher.” [05:50]

He argues that the show fails to accurately portray the diversity within the incel community, particularly the significant representation of ethnic minorities who admire figures like Andrew Tate.

3. Impact on Policy and Education

Costello expresses concern over the rapid policy responses influenced by the show's narrative.

• Policy Decisions Without Research:
  “Policy should be research based. It shouldn't be based on emotive performance art...” [07:13]

• Potential Backfiring Effects:
  “It also gives ideas to people... making notoriety towards this type of crime.” [09:11]

He warns that using a fictional series as a catalyst for nationwide educational programs could lead to misguided policies that neither address the root causes nor are backed by empirical research.

Insights into Incel Culture and Violence

1. Misconceptions About Incel Violence

Costello clarifies prevalent misconceptions about the incel community and its association with violence.

• Disproportionate Ethnic Minority Representation:
  “42% of incels were a person of color... and the extraordinarily high rates of autism among the incel community, roughly 30%...” [12:44]

• Suicidality and Mental Health:
  “30% of incels... thought about suicide or self harm every day over the last two weeks.” [13:14]

He highlights that incel violence is not as widespread as portrayed and underscores the significant mental health challenges within the community, which are often overlooked in mainstream narratives.

2. Media Portrayal and Notoriety

Costello discusses how media portrayals can inadvertently glorify perpetrators.

• No Notoriety Protocol:
  “It's another weaponized tool for the Government now.” [25:27]

• Encouraging Notoriety:
  “If you create a sex symbol and make a lot of attention around someone... you'll end up attracting similar acts of violence.” [09:11]

He emphasizes the importance of avoiding the glorification of violent acts to prevent inspiring future offenders seeking similar attention.

Discussion on Masculinity

1. Understanding Modern Masculinity

The conversation delves into the complexities of masculinity in contemporary society.

• Pressure to Be Sexually Successful:
  “The pressure that Jamie feels to present himself as sexually successful is probably exacerbated by consuming manosphere content.” [05:50]

• Masculinity and Mental Health:
  “Mental health wasn't touched on a lot in the show... suicidality is likely self-directed.” [12:44]

Costello points out that the show touches on the insecurities young men face regarding masculinity but fails to explore the deeper mental health issues that contribute to violent outcomes.

2. Role Models and Positive Masculinity

The need for credible male role models is a recurring theme.

• Positive Interventions:
  “There's opportunity to make a credible role model, intervention out of the developmental trajectory of a lot of these pickup artists.” [30:12]

• Importance of Authentic Guidance:
  “A guy coming in with a modern take on masculinity, how he's going to show you how it's real masculinity to be a feminist...” [30:12]

He advocates for interventions that provide authentic and relatable role models who exemplify healthy masculinity, countering the often superficial guidance found in manosphere communities.

Policy Responses and Recommendations

1. Research-Based Policies

Costello stresses the necessity for policies to be grounded in comprehensive research rather than reactionary measures influenced by fictional portrayals.

• Funding and Research Initiatives:
  “Interventions that are even trialled should be informed by research and rolled out fairly slowly.” [63:09]

• Avoiding Knee-Jerk Reactions:
  “Don't make knee jerk policy decisions on it until you have a bit more consensus in the science...” [60:43]

2. Educational Reforms

He suggests that educational programs should focus on equipping young men with the necessary skills for healthy relationships and emotional regulation.

• Comprehensive Sexual Education:
  “How to disagree with somebody in a partnership... how to build a flourishing relationship.” [69:14]

• Avoiding Pathologizing Strategies:
  “If you attach the goal of becoming attractive to women to any sort of male self development, it gives this impression that it's misogynistic.” [70:29]

Costello advocates for educational content that promotes genuine personal development and emotional intelligence without framing it solely around attracting women.

Conclusions and Final Thoughts

1. The Role of Media and Fiction

Both hosts agree that while "Adolescence" aims to spark important conversations, its fictional nature can lead to misunderstandings and misguided policies.

• Art as a Catalyst:
  “It’s being used to spark a dialogue... but the extent to which it's being taken seriously and being used as a catalyst for what seemingly is policy change, that's pretty troubling.” [60:24]

2. The Complexity of Addressing Masculinity Issues

Addressing the challenges faced by young men requires nuanced approaches that consider mental health, societal pressures, and the need for positive role models.

• Avoiding Simplistic Solutions:
  “It's unclear if the interventions will lead to positive outcomes.” [07:13]

• Encouraging Authentic Development:
  “Developing yourself as a man, achieving more status, getting an education, that actually can help you be more attractive to women.” [69:38]

Notable Quotes

• William Costello on Policy Scrutiny:
  “Policy should be research based. It shouldn't be based on emotive performance art...” [07:13]

• On Mental Health in Incel Communities:
  “30% of incels... thought about suicide or self harm every day over the last two weeks.” [13:14]

• Regarding Media Portrayal:
  “If you create a sex symbol and make a lot of attention around someone... you'll end up attracting similar acts of violence.” [09:11]

• On Positive Role Models:
  “There's opportunity to make a credible role model, intervention out of the developmental trajectory of a lot of these pickup artists.” [30:12]

Conclusion

Episode #924 of Modern Wisdom offers a critical examination of Netflix's "Adolescence," highlighting the gaps between fictional portrayals and real-world issues surrounding masculinity and incel-related violence. William Costello underscores the importance of research-based policies, authentic role models, and comprehensive education to address the challenges faced by young men today. The conversation serves as a call to move beyond simplistic narratives and embrace nuanced solutions rooted in empirical evidence and genuine understanding.

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