Modern Wisdom Podcast Episode #944: Will Storr - A Masterclass In Storytelling

Release Date: May 22, 2025
Host: Chris Williamson
Guest: Will Storr
Title: A Masterclass In Storytelling

Introduction: The Power of Stories

The episode opens with Chris Williamson posing a fundamental question about the persuasive power of stories. Will Storr delves into why storytelling is inherently persuasive, explaining that human cognition is wired to process information narratively rather than through data alone.

[00:03] Will Storr: "Stories are persuasive because humans think in stories. Our brains remix reality and turn that reality into a narrative, you know, with ourselves at the center."

Stories vs. Rationality in the Modern World

Chris challenges the irony of advocating for rationality and data in a society deeply influenced by narratives, myths, and archetypes. Will agrees, highlighting the naive belief that data can override the compelling nature of stories.

[01:21] Will Storr: "We are led by data. ... they start with the story and then they find the data to back up their story."

The Concept of "Knowingness"

Chris introduces the idea of "knowingness," a concept from Brian Klass, emphasizing that people often believe they already know the answers, shutting out new information. Will connects this to the storytelling brain's mechanism of reinforcing existing beliefs.

[05:51] Will Storr: "If you have a belief, the brain will find evidence to back up your belief, no matter what you believe."

Story as the Brain's Language

Will elaborates on how storytelling evolved as a means for humans to cooperate and function as superorganisms. Stories unify groups by aligning individual beliefs and actions toward common goals.

[08:32] Will Storr: "Story is a device for fusing brains together... We're all facing in the same direction, pursuing the same goals."

Stories in Advertising: Successes and Failures

Successful Campaigns:

• Apple's 1984 Ad: Positioned Apple as a symbol of freedom, creativity, and individuality against a backdrop of conformity and totalitarianism.

  [18:02] Will Storr: "The 1984 ad was offering the Apple user status. It was saying, fundamentally, that if you buy an Apple computer, you're on the side of progress."

• Molson Beer's "I Am Canadian": Utilized national identity to bolster brand reputation without mentioning the product itself.

  [22:21] Will Storr: "It's literally an appeal to identity. It's saying, here you are, we see you, you're amazing."

Failed Campaigns:

• Apple's Lemmings Ad: Attempted to replicate the success of the 1984 ad but backfired by attacking business computer users, leading to negative customer reactions.

  [18:02] Will Storr: "It was a massive disaster. It wasn't just a null effect, everyone just ignored it."

Identity Manipulation Through Storytelling

Will discusses how effective advertising appeals to identity rather than manipulating it directly. By aligning with a group's story, brands can enhance their status within that group.

[21:43] Will Storr: "The best advertising lines... appeal to identity and tell a story that people really want to hear."

Group Psychology and Storytelling

Social Identity and Mimicry: Social identities define one's role within a group, and stories reinforce these roles. Mimicry of high-status individuals within stories allows people to align themselves with desired traits.

[14:01] Will Storr: "Social identity is your identity within the group... every group has a story."

Impact of Story Manipulation: Examples like Theranos illustrate how powerful stories can attract even the most reputable individuals without due diligence.

[33:28] Will Storr: "The device was worth nothing, but the story was worth $9 billion."

Apology Videos: Successes and Failures

Good Apologies:

• Patrick Doyle’s Domino’s Apology (2007): Embodied strength, order, feeling, and agency, effectively mitigating a PR crisis.

  [65:23] Will Storr: "He really embodies all of those... he hits all of those four buttons in the apology video."

Bad Apologies:

• Failed Apology on LinkedIn: A CEO’s tearful video lacked the necessary qualities, leading to public backlash.

  [68:45] Will Storr: "He just thinks about himself and it was entirely self-defeating."

Habits and Identity: The Smoking Story

Will uses the decline of smoking as a case study to demonstrate how shifts in storytelling can alter social identities and behaviors. Initially marketed as a symbol of rebellion and status, smoking's image transformed to one of health-consciousness and low status through regulatory measures and societal change.

[89:31] Will Storr: "It's all about status, it's all about identity. And that's how it fades out as well."

The Role of Criticism vs. Compliments in Storytelling

Chris introduces Ethan Cross's idea that "criticism capture" is more dangerous than "audience capture." Will supports this, explaining from an evolutionary standpoint why negative feedback has a more profound impact on behavior.

[91:03] Will Storr: "Criticism is a form of gossip... it was life-threatening."

Rivalry, Competition, and Storytelling

Rivalry: Healthy one-on-one rivalries can drive innovation and excellence, as seen in examples like the creation of the iPhone.

[48:12] Will Storr: "Rivalry can be amazing. It can drive people to incredible feats."

Competition: In contrast, broad competition within groups can lead to burnout and toxic environments.

[49:05] Will Storr: "Competition is exhausting. People hoard status for themselves."

Current Media Landscape and Storytelling Vacuum

Will and Chris discuss the diminishing presence of straight white male role models in mainstream media, leading to the rise of alternative figures in podcasts and online platforms. This vacuum creates opportunities for new narratives but also fosters divisiveness.

[77:12] Will Storr: "There's no place in mainstream media for the straight white guys anymore."

Practical Insights: Making Stories Sticky

To ensure stories are memorable and impactful, they must be:

1. Atomic: Brevity and clarity with maximum meaning in minimal space.
2. Identity-Appealing: Align with the audience's sense of self.
3. Reinforce Desired Narratives: Affirm the group's existing stories and beliefs.

[83:49] Will Storr: "It must have maximum meaning in minimal space, appeal to identity, and tell a story that reaffirms their perception of the world."

Conclusion: The Enduring Influence of Storytelling

The episode wraps up with reflections on the centrality of stories in shaping human behavior, identity, and societal structures. Will emphasizes that understanding storytelling's mechanics is crucial for navigating and influencing the modern world.

[86:14] Will Storr: "The most fundamental question that humans ask is who do I have to be in this place to earn connection and status."

Notable Quotes

• Will Storr on Storytelling's Persuasion:

  [00:36] "Stories are the most persuasive technology out there."

• Will Storr on Knowingness:

  [05:51] "Everybody acts as if the facts are already settled whilst no one can agree on what the facts actually are."

• Will Storr on Atomic Statements:

  [26:31] "Atomic statements are so packed with meaning... you can see lines of movie dialogue like 'Houston, we have a problem.'"

• Will Storr on Selflessness in Leadership:

  [65:23] "Heroes are about selflessness, putting the group's interests before their own."

Further Resources

• Will Storr’s Substack: willstore.substack.com
  Title: You Are a Story – Weekly essays on storytelling and human psychology.

• Books by Will Storr:

  • Story is a Deal
  • Trouble
  • A Story is a Deal: The Science of Storytelling and How it's Used to Persuade People

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of storytelling's foundational role in human psychology, social dynamics, and cultural evolution. Whether in advertising, media, or personal interactions, stories shape our identities, influence our behaviors, and dictate the narratives that drive society forward.