Modern Wisdom Episode #959: Underoath - The Hidden Struggles Of Mental Health In Music

Release Date: June 26, 2025

In this deeply introspective episode of Modern Wisdom, host Chris Williamson engages in a candid conversation with Aaron Gillespie and Tim McTague of the influential band Underoath. The discussion delves into the intricate relationship between music, touring, mental health, and personal relationships, offering listeners a transparent look into the hidden struggles faced by musicians.

1. Band Longevity and Touring Experiences

Underoath's Enduring Journey

The conversation begins with Aaron and Tim sharing the longevity and commitment required to sustain a band over decades. Having played together for over 24 years, they estimate having performed 3,000 to 4,000 shows (00:16), highlighting the relentless pace of touring.

Notable Quote:

Tim McTague ([00:23]): "It's weird to think about doing something for a quarter of a century. Like, you hear people say they've been married for 30 years, and then it's like, yeah, we've been in a band for 25 years."

2. The Dark Side of Touring: Mental Health Struggles

Chronic Displacement and Emotional Extremes

Chris introduces an essay titled "The Raw Truth About Touring and Mental Health," which Aaron and Tim find profoundly resonant (04:05). They discuss how touring leads to chronic displacement, lack of routine, and constant interpersonal tensions, which can severely impact mental well-being.

Notable Quote:

Chris Williamson ([04:05]): "Touring breaks people in ways that most don't talk about and the industry rarely admits."

Impact on Personal Relationships

Aaron opens up about the guilt of balancing time spent with bandmates versus his family, emphasizing the internal conflict between personal happiness and professional commitments (01:36, 08:59).

Notable Quote:

Aaron Gillespie ([02:18]): "The emotion is guilt. Because you spend X amount of time away from your wife and children with someone else."

3. Intimacy Within the Band vs. Family

Unique Bonding with Bandmates

The conversation explores the distinct intimacy shared among band members, which cannot be replicated in familial relationships. Chris remarks on the unique synergy musicians experience, fostering a deep connection that often leads to personal sacrifices (03:20).

Notable Quote:

Tim McTague ([03:22]): "Doing something you love can almost creep in personally on both sides, replacing traditional relationship dynamics."

4. Creative Process and the Music Industry Dynamics

Balancing Artistry with Commercial Pressures

Aaron and Tim discuss the tension between maintaining artistic integrity and succumbing to industry pressures for commercial success. They highlight how the shift from tangible metrics like album sales to intangible ones like streaming counts has altered their creative processes (38:03, 42:27).

Notable Quote:

Tim McTague ([28:10]): "Having a tour manager, agent, writers... it's taken care of, you lose the value of substances, money, and time because it's excess all the time."

5. Fame, Success, and Self-Worth

The Pitfalls of Comparative Success

The duo reflect on the challenges of achieving success, such as dealing with comparison to other bands and managing imposter syndrome. They discuss how milestones can paradoxically lead to increased anxiety rather than satisfaction (36:01, 43:35).

Notable Quote:

Chris Williamson ([36:21]): "When you have the perfect show and then you have the next level, the minimum bar for acceptable performance has just been taken up, causing anxiety."

6. Coping Mechanisms and Personal Growth

Finding Balance Amidst Chaos

Aaron shares his personal battles with anxiety and how leaving Underoath in 2010 was a pivotal moment for his mental health (63:02). Tim emphasizes the importance of self-reflection and maintaining multiple sources of self-worth to navigate the pressures of fame (85:32).

Notable Quote:

Tim McTague ([86:07]): "Choosing to love that person and the things about them you don't agree with is the essence of a meaningful relationship."

7. Legacy, Reflection, and Future Outlook

Contemplating the Journey and Future Impact

As the conversation winds down, Aaron and Tim reflect on their legacy and the impact of their music on both their lives and their audience's mental health. They express a desire to maintain authenticity and prioritize personal relationships over chasing further success (139:57, 145:10).

Notable Quote:

Aaron Gillespie ([146:07]): "When you think about it, if no one else had got married, or had ever decided to have kids, what part of this is you? Have you become the thing that you just did?"

Key Takeaways

• Mental Health in Touring: Constant travel and performance pressure can lead to chronic stress, anxiety, and strained personal relationships.

• Balancing Relationships: Musicians often face guilt over time spent away from family, highlighting the need for open communication and boundaries.

• Artistic Integrity vs. Commercial Success: Navigating the music industry's shift towards streaming metrics poses challenges to creative authenticity.

• Coping Strategies: Maintaining multiple sources of self-worth and engaging in self-reflection are crucial for mental well-being.

• Legacy and Authenticity: Reflecting on one's journey and prioritizing authenticity can mitigate the negative impacts of fame and success.

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a raw and honest exploration of the mental health challenges inherent in the music industry, particularly for bands like Underoath who have sustained long careers. The discussion underscores the importance of mental health awareness, authentic relationships, and the constant balancing act between personal well-being and professional obligations.

For listeners seeking insight into the hidden struggles of musicians, this episode serves as a compelling narrative that bridges personal experiences with broader industry dynamics.