Modern Wisdom #997: The Modern Sex Work Debate

Guests: Bonnie Blue & Louise Perry

Host: Chris Williamson
Date: September 22, 2025

Overview

In this episode of Modern Wisdom, Chris Williamson sits down with controversial adult content creator Bonnie Blue and feminist author/journalist Louise Perry to explore the modern sex work debate. The conversation digs into psychological, personal, cultural, and ethical aspects of the sex industry, focusing on Bonnie’s rise to notoriety and what her experiences reveal about consent, happiness, stigma, and social change in the wake of the sexual revolution.

Louise Perry approaches the topic as a critic of the sexual revolution and sex industry, while Bonnie Blue embodies the unabashed, empowered, and divisive persona of the “post-OnlyFans” era. Together they examine not only individual well-being, but also the downstream cultural effects of hyper-public, commodified sexuality.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why This Conversation? (00:00–01:12)

• Louise Perry wants to understand Bonnie’s psychology, as most sex workers she’s interviewed describe trauma/distress, while Bonnie insists she is happy and unharmed.
  • “You don’t talk about [trauma]. And I think that you’re telling the truth. I think actually you don’t find this work causes you psychological harm.” — Louise Perry, 00:57

2. Bonnie’s Background: Happy By Choice (01:12–05:55)

• Bonnie refutes the idea that her sex work is a result of trauma or deprivation; her motivation is personal choice and pursuit of happiness.
  • “For me, I’ve just chosen to do this.” — Bonnie Blue, 01:12
• Stability and autonomy, not money or sexual attention alone, are core to her satisfaction.
  • “I get to travel…I get to spend so much more time with my family…and it gives me a massive confidence boost. There’s no part of my job I don’t really enjoy.” — Bonnie Blue, 03:48

3. Sex, Relationships & Authenticity (04:31–06:09)

• The panel debates whether “gold diggers” or women who secure luxury through wealthy partners are effectively “sex workers.” Bonnie considers herself more honest & independent.
  • “They’re using their holes to pay their bills. It’s just someone else who’s doing it. But I’m independent.” — Bonnie Blue, 04:59

4. Limits, Identity, and Dissent (06:13–13:20)

• Bonnie claims no difficulty in walking away, saying she knows her limits, lacks consistency bias, and is immune to peer pressure. She describes unusually high physical/emotional endurance and low disgust sensitivity.
  • “The big difference between me and other sex workers is I understand my limits, I understand my body and what I can take or what I can’t take…so I’m never left distressed.” — Bonnie Blue, 08:08
• Louise presses Bonnie on the emotional difficulties of intimacy with strangers; Bonnie says she compartmentalizes and does not judge men by looks.
  • “I don’t even always know I’ve had sex with someone. I don’t always know who’s inside of me…But I never look at someone and think, I don’t want you near me.” — Bonnie Blue, 12:08/13:29

5. Sex as Hobby & Escalation (15:17–19:38)

• Bonnie now sees sex as “a hobby, it’s fun and there’s not really much else I think about it.” She had a low “body count” prior to entering sex work for money/freedom after leaving recruitment and retail jobs.
  • “Now sex is just a—it doesn’t have to mean something. I can still enjoy it. It’s an orgasm and it’s as simple as that.” — Bonnie Blue, 15:33
• Entrance into group sex events was accidental and later became intentional as a career differentiator.
  • “I realised I loved the environment it created. It wasn’t dirty…just a fun experience for me and those involved.” — Bonnie Blue, 19:05

6. Trolling, Notoriety, and Social Strategy (21:32–24:44)

• Bonnie admits her online persona is intentionally provocative, targeting women because “they’re easy to wind up” and amplifies controversy to grow her audience.
  • “Women…spend more time on TikTok than their husbands. So…my TikToks [are] for women because I know they’re going to complain about it.” — Bonnie Blue, 22:18
• She claims to have female friends and holds that harm to relationships is ultimately not her responsibility: “No one is forced. If a wife is ever affected…it’s—they need to look in the mirror.”* — Bonnie Blue, 24:05

7. Cultural Impact, Cheating, & Hypocrisy (24:44–29:52)

• The trio debates whether normalization and easy access to sex work/porn changes behavior and temptations around cheating, likening sex work to alcohol in terms of environmental triggers.
  • Bonnie: “If someone was really happy in their marriage, they wouldn’t have turned up…Sometimes people cheat and it’s not because they don’t love their wife…Your husband’s probably still wanting sex and…he goes elsewhere…It’s not an affair. There’s no text and there’s no emotional connection.” — Bonnie Blue, 26:18
• Louise/Perry argue Bonnie is the “reductio ad absurdum” of the sexual revolution—taking modern ideas of sexual and financial autonomy to their logical conclusion, which unsettles cultural norms.

8. Legal/Ethical Dimensions (43:23–45:27)

• Bonnie criticizes attempts to criminalize OnlyFans, arguing it would only drive the practice elsewhere (and make it less safe).
• Discussion of recent legal attempts to restrict porn leads to evidence that even mild “friction” (like age-verification) dramatically lowers use, challenging idea that sex/porn consumption is inevitable.
  • “If it’s harder to access porn, people will watch less of it.” — Louise Perry, 45:03

9. Porn, Consent, and Downstream Harm (46:24–56:58)

• Louise raises concerns that easy access to increasingly extreme porn shapes tastes and expectations, potentially normalizing violence (like choking) and harming those less assertive than Bonnie.
  • “When rough sex and choking is normalized, all of a sudden you have juries who...think, oh yeah, that’s plausible. Like, I know that all the Zuma girls love being choked nowadays.” — Louise Perry, 51:13
• Bonnie counters that her content models active consent, breaks the “perfect” porn edit, and leaves in consent discussions for realism.
  • “Discussing consent isn’t weird. It’s sexy…in the sex I have with these 18 year olds…I explain to them how I enjoy to be choked.” — Bonnie Blue, 55:14

10. Bonnie’s Outlier Psychology (59:32–121:36)

• Panel explores why Bonnie is so resistant to stigma, negative feedback, and trauma.
  • Louise: “…you’re a far right tail on so many different traits.” — 59:45
• In personality testing, Louise predicts Bonnie would be:
  • High Openness (to experience)
  • High Conscientiousness
  • High Extroversion
  • Low Agreeableness (not prioritizing social harmony)
  • Low Neuroticism
• Bonnie maintains that negative comments don’t bother her unless they directly hurt her family (notably around rumors of child abuse, which did upset her). Otherwise, “I know I’m happy…I think that’s one of the best things about me.” (77:34)

11. Children, Family, & Future Consequences (68:12–90:00)

• Louise challenges Bonnie on how her notoriety would affect future children; Bonnie acknowledges downsides but focuses on material security and time as outweighing shame.
• Bonnie admits she struggles most with family vulnerability (documentary scene where her family sees explicit footage, 87:21) but generally rationalizes “tummy” feelings as protectiveness, not personal shame.

12. Responsibility, Limits, & Industry Competition (65:02–85:12)

• Bonnie draws the ethical line at “financial domination” (draining men’s bank accounts): “Morally, that’s not for me. That isn’t something I’d enjoy. I wouldn’t like that. I’m not doing this for power.” (66:44)
• Louise flags how Bonnie’s extremity pressures other sex workers to escalate—that economic competition in an “anything goes” market can harm those less robust.

13. Wider Social Harm: Steelmanning the Other Side (121:36–131:18)

• Louise “steel mans” the argument for sexual liberation: if porn actually reduced violence, that could outweigh downsides, but research evidence is inconclusive.
• Chris uses the metaphor of “fake natties” in fitness: Bonnie is an outlier, and her example may create harmful/exaggerated standards for others in the industry, especially vulnerable young women.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Honest Sex Work vs. “Gold-Digging” Marriage:
  “I see them as more of a sex worker than me…They’re using their holes to pay their bills. It’s just someone else who’s doing it. But I’m independent.”
  — Bonnie Blue (04:59)

• On Limits & Boundaries in Sex Work:
  “The difference between me and other sex workers is I understand my limits…so I’m never left distressed.”
  — Bonnie Blue (08:08)

• On Compartmentalization:
  “I don’t always even see their face…It’s like always a rotation. I don’t always know I’ve had sex with someone. I don’t always know who’s inside of me.”
  — Bonnie Blue (12:08)

• On Mainstream Sexual Culture:
  “You are kind of like the LeBron James of sociosexuality and disgust sensitivity.”
  — Chris Williamson (81:13)

• On Not Caring About Public Judgment:
  “I’m aware that I’m never going to look back on my life and go, I wish I cared less about what people thought about me. I’m already in that mindset.”
  — Bonnie Blue (78:54)

• On Modeling Consent:
  “Discussing consent isn’t weird. It’s sexy…most porn, it looks like this most perfect art performance…Even in terms of the fact I only slept with body shapes that had perfect abs and big dicks because that was what’s in the porn industry…when I realized the lack of information…I was like, I’m going to keep all that in.”
  — Bonnie Blue (55:14)

• On Outlier Status/Warning to Others:
  “It’d be easier if I did struggle a bit and I could open up and say, look, it comes at this cost…But that isn’t the case…For me, it really has been an easy ride.”
  — Bonnie Blue (130:36)

• On Outsized Impact:
  “Bonnie is like the reductio ad absurdum of the sexual revolution…She holds up a mirror to the culture.”
  — Chris Williamson/Louise Perry (28:40/41:07)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:12: Introduction, Louise’s motivation
• 01:12–05:55: Bonnie’s psychological health & early experiences
• 06:13–13:20: Identity, sexual resilience, disgust, and limits
• 15:17–19:38: Sex as hobby, escalation to group events
• 21:32–24:44: Notoriety and trolling strategies
• 24:44–29:52: Cheating, temptation, hypocrisy
• 43:23–45:27: Legal regulation and impact of access limits
• 46:24–56:58: Porn, normalization, consent, and downstream harm
• 59:32–121:36: Bonnie’s psychological profile; insensitivity to hate
• 68:12–90:00: Family, children, intergenerational impacts
• 121:36–131:18: Moral externalities, “fake natty” analogy, outlier risk
• 131:18–133:54: Closing reflections and future consequences

Summary & Conclusion

This episode is a rare, probing look at what happens when the ideas of sexual freedom, individualism, and the commodification of sex are pursued to their utmost—in the figure of Bonnie Blue, a woman who claims radical happiness, agency, and immunity to stigma. Host and guests push each other over fault lines between personal well-being and cultural harm, authenticity and provocation, private limits and public spectacle.

In the end, all agree Bonnie is a genuine outlier, both in her profession and personality. This makes her both a symbol and a challenge: She is the “LeBron James of porn,” but also a lightning rod forcing society to reckon with what it truly values in sex, consent, market freedom, and collective morality.

Key Takeaways:

• Bonnie Blue is an extreme outlier. Her lack of trauma, high self-efficacy, and thick-skinned nature make her a unique case—not representative of sex workers broadly.
• The “sex-positive”/libertarian view struggles to distinguish Bonnie’s case as problematic on its own terms, while critics worry she distorts the entire conversation and sets damaging standards.
• Cultural effects are subtle but potentially significant— normalizing sex as trivial, pushing the industry to extremes, and creating new forms of social scrutiny and backlash.
• Consent and resilience do not eliminate systemic risks, or answer every question about the commodification of intimacy and gender dynamics.

“You are the spirit of the age.” — Louise Perry (132:37)