← Money And Wealth With John Hope Bryant
Money And Wealth With John Hope Bryant
AI Is the Tsunami: Reid Hoffman on Jobs, Wealth & the Future of Work
01:01:25
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- [00:00]
Bronte Aurelia
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. A lot of you ask how I actually run my business behind the scenes and honestly, Shopify is the reason it exists. For me, Shopify is the place where I took this little idea I had and turned it into a real business. I still remember the first ever sale I made for my fashion brand. Embellished. It was a huge moment for me and Shopify made it all possible. Build your store, own your audience, and create something that lasts. Start now@shopify.com Ben Liberty Mutual customizes your
- [00:36]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this ad for your morning commute to wake you up, which could help your driving. Science says that stimulating the brain increases alertness. So here's a pop quiz. How many months have 28 days. What gets wetter as it dries? What has keys but can't open Locks? If you don't want to hear the answers, turn off this Liberty Mutual AD. Now 12 months. A towel, piano. Enjoy being fully alert.
- [01:02]
Reid Hoffman
Liberty, Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.
- [01:05]
Bronte Aurelia
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-I-HEART Therapy is fantastic, but once again it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the res and that's why I create the community because
- [01:26]
Reid Hoffman
I really just want you to have more access on the podcast. Cultivating her space Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard.
- [01:37]
Bronte Aurelia
It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving individuals.
- [01:43]
Reid Hoffman
Listen to Cultivating her space on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:51]
John Hope Bryant
Welcome to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant, a production of the Black Effect podcast network and iHeartRadio. Hey hey everybody is John Hope Bryant and this is the Money and Wealth podcast series Season 3 on iHeartRadio on the Black Effect Network. I want to thank you for making this podcast number 40 or 50 of entrepreneurship podcasts in America on Apple Podcasts and 250Top250 on every continent in the world. Top 1% of all podcasts in the world. And today I have a special episode because as you know, I often do these podcasts solo. So when I bring a guest on they are truly special. They are signature and this guess Is is more special than special because he checks a lot of boxes that I've never covered from a principle in these spaces. I talk about investments, I talk about venture capital, I talk about innovation and innovators, I talk about artificial intelligence and technology. But I've never brought other than maybe parallel to this and Michael Milken was the parallel to these areas. I never brought a leader in this space. On the podcast today that changes. This is a man that I personally admire, respect and I like as a human. And there are private conversations he and I have had which are precious to me that I cannot share, where he showed who he really is to me. Ladies and gentlemen, I introduce you to Reed Hoffman. Let me give you a little background, Reid Hoffman. The first line, by the way, is enough, but I'm going to go a little further with the verse line. Just drops the mic. Reid Hoffman is the co founder of LinkedIn. Let that sink in for a minute. We all use it. I just used it last night. He's a co founder of LinkedIn, a longtime partner at Greylock, which is a huge investment firm based on the west coast and one of Silicon Valley's most influential investors, advisors and voices on the future of technology, entrepreneurship in human progress. He has helped shape how the world thinks about networks, opportunities, scale, and now increasingly AI, which we're going to get into today. Through his investing, writing and his podcast Possible, he continues to ask one of the biggest questions of our time. How do we build a future that works better for more people? He's also old school. I got a, at the end of last year, I got a vinyl album set from Reed that he produced himself as his self made gift to people he cares about. So this is more of a conversation about Silicon Valley than it is an interview. It is a conversation about the future. It is a conversation about what's important. And I want to welcome my friend Reed to money and wealth.
- [05:15]
Reid Hoffman
It is an honor to be here, my friend.
- [05:18]
John Hope Bryant
And let's get into this because your time is limited and important. By the way, is there anything I left out on the substance of who you are because there's so many things you've done. Is anything I left out that you thought that you think is really important? Reid?
- [05:38]
Reid Hoffman
Nothing that we wouldn't get into in our normal discussion of AI. You know, I, I also, you know, like you occasionally write books, you know, most recently Super Agency.
- [05:49]
John Hope Bryant
That's right.
- [05:50]
Reid Hoffman
That's trying to get people to understand that part of, in the age of AI, you should kind of grasp your own agency through this and also we as technologists should be building things that help you with your agency. But you know, it's just a, you know, it's this, that and the other.
- [06:05]
John Hope Bryant
No, it's not this, that and the other is the this, the that and the other from, from Read Hot. When Reid Hoffman says it, it takes, it takes on a whole a different level of seriousness. There's something that you, you've done, which Van Jones and I, I know you're, you're very close with Van Jones. Van Jones and I have launched something called HOPE AI and we're co chairing that and I'm honored to work with Van on that. And Van brags about you behind your back. Reed, there's something that I, Van and I have noticed about you that is unique amongst technologists that I would like to get into as a, a quick side project, this conversation before we get in the, the, the meat of this and that is this. You have a humanity to you that you inject into your business conversation. You, you have an EQ that seems to match your iq. And one of the things I've noticed about geniuses in Silicon Valley, not all of them, but many of them I have met, have a blind spot called people. And the interesting thing is they don't see it. They think that they, that because they're a genius of left brain technology, that they are genius and everything else and they make assumptions about people which are entirely incorrect and that makes the strategy that they're pursuing not harmful, but just less effective than it can be. And I'm just shocked that folks who don't know, like in my community, when you don't know what you don't know, you know you don't know it. I mean, you may be a little, you may be a little, a little bravado about it, but when somebody comes to you and says, hey, look, let me tell you about financial literacy, let me tell you about whatever, at least my community, my base community, meaning underserved communities, they're willing to step back and go, okay, if you know better than me, let me listen on this topic. I've just not found that among some very successful technologists that they don't see that blind spot of people. They just keep talking and burying themselves deeper and deeper in a completely left brain approach to something that involves, hello people, what do you make of what I just said, Reid? And how is it that you're bringing a unique approach of humanity and genius to technology and how that affected how you move?
- [08:42]
Reid Hoffman
So, you know, I think it is very important. I think one of the things that, like, I kind of describe myself, it's a little geeky as a techno humanist, which is the importance of technology is how we amplify our humanity. And people usually experience new technology as the new alien thing. Like, when cars were first introduced, they feel that felt alien. Now they feel natural. Electricity, you know, glasses, the whole thing. Fire, I'm sure. And so the important thing on what we're doing is we're building it for human beings as individuals, as groups, as societies, as humanity. And of course, most technologists get into technology because they're like, oh, I can control this universe myself, and I can be the, you know, the God of this universe, and I can do everything, and I don't have to interface with this bothersome other people and all that kind of thing. And so. And so I think that's one of the reasons why you find so many technologists being, you know, kind of socially awkward, frequently dismissive of other people, because part of the thing that moves them into it is I am like, I am, you know, the Ayn Randian, you know, superhuman, you know.
- [09:59]
John Hope Bryant
Yes.
- [10:00]
Reid Hoffman
And I think that actually, in fact, the important thing is, like, look, you're really talented. You can build these really amazing things, but the importance of life is us going through it together. And technology is only good when it helps a lot of people. Right. And so. And so that's the thing. And so one of the things that when I teach classes at, like, YC and other places in my spare time, it's what I ask entrepreneurs is what's your theory of the human nature and the human condition? And how is your work going to improve what that human condition is? And why is it that it plays out that way? And it's fine if it's like, look, we're just providing a much cheaper thing that people really want. Well, that's an improvement, right? You know, we provide jobs and everything else that. That's good because business itself, broadly, is good with, you know, providing things that people want to buy and employment. Now, of course, it's occasionally bad, like you're selling addictive substances that ruin people's lives. Not good for that. Right. And so anyway, but. But the. But I think that's the. It's that humanist perspective. And part of the reason I wrote Super Agency and some of the other writings is I have a book.
- [11:14]
John Hope Bryant
I have that book here and I've started. It is brilliant. Everybody should pick it up and follow his podcast and 19 other things he's doing by the way
- [11:24]
Reid Hoffman
is not just for everyone to think about. How do I embrace my own human agency in the age of AI? But also for technologists to think about when I'm building AI, how do I enhance human agency?
- [11:37]
John Hope Bryant
Yes, yes, yes.
- [11:40]
Charlamagne Tha God
Peace to the planet. Charlamagne. Th God here. Now, y' all know I'm big on ownership. Owning your ideas, owning your business, owning your future. And that's exactly why I use Shopify. Shopify is the platform that lets you take an idea and, and actually build a real business out of it. All right? It gives anyone the tools, the storefront and the control. So you're not building on somebody else's platform or somebody else's algorithm. Okay? It's your own store, your community, your own customers. That relationship is yours to own. All right? What I love is how discoverable it makes everything. Shopify puts products everywhere people actually shop. Google, YouTube, TikTok, shop the shop app. Even inside ChatGPT, you can literally go from conversation to to check out that's next level options in our changing world. And right now, the Black Effect storefront is busy and Shopify is handling the heavy lifting. I am so excited that Shopify is going to show up at our Black Effect Podcast festival this year in a big way. And of course I'll be there preaching this platform and introducing this platform to all our small black owned businesses that partner with us. Shopify is helping drive the marketplace this year at our festival and their footprint and commitment to us and, and the community of black owned businesses is something I am proud to be a part of. Build your store, own your audience and create something that lasts. Start now@shopify.com Breakfast Club.
- [12:59]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this ad for your morning commute to wake you up, which could help your driving. Science says that stimulating the brain increases alertness. So here's a pop quiz. How many months have 28 days. What gets wetter as it dries? What has keys but can't open? Locks? If you don't want to hear the answers, turn off this Liberty mutual ad now. 12 months. A towel piano. Enjoy being fully alert.
- [13:26]
Reid Hoffman
Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.
- [13:29]
Bronte Aurelia
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business think. IHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Call 844-844-IHeart to get started. That's 844-844-IHEART.
- [14:00]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced Games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all. Embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.
- [14:17]
John Hope Bryant
Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
- [14:23]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [14:32]
John Hope Bryant
Let's back up and go deeper on the human side for one second and then come forward. So I really want the audience to. To understand you and your humanity and how deep that goes. You know, I keep saying that. A phrase my father in law would say, which is, we're all angels with dirty faces, that a saint is a sinner that got up. There's no perfect. There's no perfect people out here. And so when people criticize anybody, I say, I like what that person's doing much better than what you're not doing. People criticize me. I like what I'm doing better than what you're not doing. Question on the humanity side, there's something I witnessed that I cannot share with the audience because it's private, but it said everything about you to me. People. People will stand up for you until it's inconvenient for them. People will back you until it costs them money. People will have. Will say nice things until. Creates a time commitment for them where they. Where they're not doing something they selfishly want to do. We were at a place that we can't talk about. I can't talk about. And you. Every time I've approached you at this place, you've taken time. This is before I was sort of a known entity, if you want to call it that. I spoke there, but I wasn't necessarily a member of the club back then, but. And you still would take the time and talk and have a conversation, which I respected. And we were talking. I was talking to a certain technologist, a absolute genius by any stretch of the imagination. Everybody would know the name. And you saw the conversation getting interesting and going a little off the rails. And I was trying to keep it on the rails, but I was being dismissed. Sorry. There was an attempt. I'm sorry. Miss me? I wasn't gonna let it happen, but maybe I might have sort of a Compton approach. To this, like, what'd you just say to me? Right. And you stepped in and were gracious and kind and re. Van Jones tried to do something and that didn't work. And you use your credibility to mediate this. You spent about 10 or 15 minutes in this conversation and then you pivoted it away, called a cause of gracious exit for everybody and we, and you walked off together with me to lunch, would send a message. Why did you do that, Reed? Why did you lean in to help somebody you basically didn't know? And, and, and I'm. And why don't more people, why don't more leaders do just that?
- [17:16]
Reid Hoffman
Well, I think so the short answer is you have to think about, like, who are you? And why do you think you're a good person? And that means because you stand for things and you do things and you do the right things and you do the right things when it's not convenient. And so, of course, the, you know, a very powerful person that you're, you know, gesturing at could have thought worse of me from my stepping up and saying, no, no, John's right on this stuff and you should pay attention to him.
- [17:43]
John Hope Bryant
Right.
- [17:43]
Reid Hoffman
And this is important. And I didn't even occur to me to behave any other different way because part of what you try to do is you say, look, part of doing the right thing is not just about you, but it's about the mission, about what kinds of things you're doing, about what kinds of things that happen. And part of the reason I loved your mission and your work and the organization is because you know the world, not just the community of bringing people into the middle class and prosperity, but the world is better off by realizing the talent, contributing to, you know, society, to industry and so forth. And that really matters. And you have one of the smart. Unfortunately not many smart, but you have one of the important smart approaches to this. And so the fact that you were like, I saw the, the dismissal, which was very rude, and I was like, no, no, no, this shall not stand.
- [18:48]
John Hope Bryant
Right.
- [18:48]
Reid Hoffman
And, and so, you know, it was literally, there's a reflex to stand in.
- [18:53]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah.
- [18:54]
Reid Hoffman
And, you know, a little bit of it was treating people right, egu, but also it was like, no, no, this mission, this mission needs to be supported.
- [19:06]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting now. So first of all, publicly on air. Thank you. And that person was not going to get away with dismissing me, but I would have handled it in a way that was less elegant and less productive than you handled it. I would. Might have won the battle, but I might have lost the war in the context of the environment we were in. And I would have stepped in mess and not over it. And I tell people always, never make an emotional decision. Whenever you make an emotional decision, it's a bad one. And I would have done both. I would have stepped in it and been emotional because they pricked a core nerve of decency and dignity with me. And you were just saying, like, read John's research, like, just read his, like, just, just take some time and read his, you know, and it was just complete dismissal. And, and I've learned that, taught me some lessons about you can be the smartest person on the planet, you can be the most well prepared, you can do everything right and still not get a seat at the table. And you just can't give up. You've just, you got to take no for vitamins. You can't get all wrapped up in how fair the world is because the world is often unfair. And you, and you gotta wait for God's grace to step in and save good people from themselves often. And as I said, no one's perfect. But I think that you're going to be constantly visited by a measure of God's grace because of things like that, that you did, that no one will. If I didn't tell that story, no one would ever know it. I mean, no one. It was, it was a four people that, with three people who witnessed it. So I just wanted to personally on air give you respect. And this is why I've come to you from time to time with counsel. I know you'd shoot straight. This is why I asked you to serve on the AI Ethics Council, which you agreed to do, by the way, which is co chaired by Sam Altman and myself. And Van Jones is on that council along with Dr. Bernice a king and others. And, and this is why I want you in the podcast, because I think we're sitting at the door of fundamental systemic, organizational and human change not seen since the dawning of Homo sapiens, maybe. And there's no roadmap for this. And so I'd like to do something I don't often do. I'm going to tee up a couple thoughts and then I want to shut up and let you just go. By the way, how many different jobs do you have, Reed?
- [21:48]
Reid Hoffman
I mean, I've lost count.
- [21:50]
John Hope Bryant
So you, you co founded LinkedIn, which I want to. That's one of my first, first questions is why? How? Because that's just brilliant. You co founded LinkedIn, which is enough by itself. And, and that was, is that, was that through Greylock or is that a separate.
- [22:05]
Reid Hoffman
That was just me. Me as an entrepreneur.
- [22:07]
John Hope Bryant
Okay, so you, so. And then there are other major companies like that you co founded.
- [22:12]
Reid Hoffman
Well, as part of the founding team of PayPal, I was on the board of directors. A founding member of the board of directors and then later, you know, kind of executive coo, evv, et cetera. I've actually recently co founded an AI company for trying to cure cancer. You know, so, you know,
- [22:34]
John Hope Bryant
you're my friend Michael Milken, who's the biggest funder for prostate cancer in the world. Thank you.
- [22:38]
Reid Hoffman
Exactly. So Manas AI is that one with Siddhartha Mukherjee. Okay. And. But then, you know, investments, you know, things like Facebook, Airbnb, etc. First led the first commercial round in OpenAI. Speaking of SAM Altman and was on the board of OpenAI for a while. The, you know, so there's this range of stuff. Write books, do podcasts.
- [23:03]
John Hope Bryant
You're, you're, you're on the board of some important companies also, aren't you?
- [23:07]
Reid Hoffman
Yeah. Many people think Microsoft's an important company. So, you know.
- [23:10]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah, I think so.
- [23:13]
Charlamagne Tha God
Peace of the planet. Charlamagne Tha God here. Now, y' all know I'm big on ownership. Owning your ideas, owning your business, owning your future. And that's exactly why I use Shopify. Shopify is the platform that lets you take an idea and actually build a real business out of it. All right? It gives anyone the tools, the storefront and the control. So you're not building on somebody else's platform or somebody else's algorithm. Okay? It's your own store, you, your community, your own customers. That relationship is yours to own. All right? What I love is how discoverable it makes everything. Shopify puts products everywhere. People actually shop. Google, YouTube, TikTok, shop the shop app. Even inside ChatGPT, you can literally go from conversation to checkout. That's next level options in our changing world. And right now the Black Effects storefront is busy and Shopify is handling the heavy lifting. I am so excited that Shopify is going to show up and at our Black Effect podcast festival this year in a big way. And of course I'll be there preaching this platform and introducing this platform to all our small black owned businesses that partner with us. Shopify is helping drive the marketplace this year at our festival and their footprint and commitment to us and the community of black owned businesses is something I am proud to be a part of. Build your store, own your audience and Create something that lasts. Start now@shopify.com Breakfast Club.
- [24:31]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Liberty Mutual customizes your car and home insurance. And now we're customizing this ad for your morning commute to wake you up, which could help your driving. Science says that stimulating the brain increases alertness, so here's a pop. How many months have 28 days. What gets wetter as it dries? What has keys but can't open Locks? If you don't want to hear the answers, turn off this Liberty Mutual AD. Now 12 months. A towel piano. Enjoy being fully alert.
- [24:58]
Reid Hoffman
Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.
- [25:01]
Bronte Aurelia
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart streaming radio and podcasting. Call 844-844-IHeart to get started. That's 844-844-IHEART.
- [25:32]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the Enhanced Games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.
- [25:49]
John Hope Bryant
Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
- [25:56]
Liberty Mutual Ad Voice
Listen to Superhuman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [26:04]
John Hope Bryant
The easy question, why LinkedIn? So how long ago was that, by the way? 20 years?
- [26:12]
Reid Hoffman
2003. So 23 years.
- [26:14]
John Hope Bryant
Talking about looking around the corner. My God, yes. Okay. Why? Why LinkedIn?
- [26:18]
Reid Hoffman
So actually, I'll tell a little bit of the fuller story because I think, you know, your community might like it. So. So Peter Thiel, Max Lupchen and I were, we're like, how do we save PayPal? So we went off and we were kind of, we're doing this. And one of the things we did is we talked about, like, what other ideas we might have if PayPal went up in a big smoke ball. Because at the time we went off site, it was an exponentiating cost curve with no revenue. So we could tell you the hour that the 200 plus million dollars of capital that we invested would all go
- [26:51]
John Hope Bryant
to zero on which company?
- [26:53]
Reid Hoffman
PayPal.
- [26:54]
John Hope Bryant
PayPal. Wow. Which is a great success today.
- [26:56]
Reid Hoffman
Yes. So we pulled it off, but we had one shot that was really very much like you know, Star wars, you know, kind of that shot on the Death Star, it was like, we got one shot and it's gonna work or not. And so. And worked. Fortunately now, but part of what I had sketched out was part of the whole world of the Internet coming isn't just a way of information flowing and, you know, kind of getting entertainment and streaming like we are doing right now. But there's also a role for various forms of social connection. And one of the ones that really matters is that in work, life is a team sport, not a solo sport. It's like you go through with your team, your team helps you in various ways. Not just advice, but opening the door to opportunities. Like, whenever I'm trying to hire, the very first thing I do is ping people I know and say, do you know someone who might be the right person for this? You know, that kind of thing? And so, and it's like, and the Internet can do all this. And so I believe that a few things that are 23 years ago were considered anathema. Like, everyone will have a public professional identity. Everyone will have a network that is their individual network, not their company's network, the network that helps them. They may be deploying it to help their company right now, but it is their individual network. And I can get this started now. When I started it, everyone thought I was crazy, right? Like, basically it was like, wait, this is like. And I don't know how many of of of your audience will know, like Friendster, but this is like, this is like Friendster but for business. And you're like, it's not Friendster, but if that's the only way you're going to talk about me, because you're entrepreneur and you have hustle, great, call me Friendster for business, right? And because basically all opportunities, whether they're entrepreneurial, whether they're funding, whether they're jobs, whether they're sales, they basically are attached to people.
- [28:55]
John Hope Bryant
I mean, we've been in my space for business is another way to think about it.
- [28:59]
Reid Hoffman
Exactly.
- [29:00]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah.
- [29:01]
Reid Hoffman
And so it was like, let's get that started. Because facilitating people's ability because like, for example, like, one of the things you get to is like, you know, currently, you know, kids graduating from college or like, ah, shit, the job market sucks. What do I do? How do I get internships? And the answer is sometimes, by the way, you're like, your uncle knows somebody.
- [29:22]
John Hope Bryant
Yes.
- [29:23]
Reid Hoffman
How do you know that where that could help? And that was the kind of thing that LinkedIn was designed to discover because it's connect to anybody who knows you well enough to recommend you on a case by case basis to someone else. It doesn't have to be they've worked with you. It doesn't have to be they were your teacher, professor. Doesn't have to be they were your boss or co worker. It's like, just like, oh no, this person's smart, they're hardworking.
- [29:44]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah.
- [29:45]
Reid Hoffman
Right. And, and that is a huge difference from people who are knocking at the front door. Because when the people knock on the front door, you don't know anything about them.
- [29:53]
John Hope Bryant
Yes.
- [29:54]
Reid Hoffman
Right. They could be crazy. You still know.
- [29:56]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah.
- [29:57]
Reid Hoffman
So that gives you a huge edge up on interesting opportunities. And that was the theory of it and said the Internet and the world should work this way. Which is fundamentally everything I do is how should the world actually work, can I help it, work that way. And LinkedIn is, is that. And so that was the, that was the original idea and the, you know, you know now 23 year old, 23 years of work to get where it is.
- [30:24]
John Hope Bryant
So let me go deeper on that because I think what you're talking about is organized relationship capital. And relationship capital gets you and I in certain rooms, you, you more, at least in the past, you more than me. I'm in the rooms now. But by the grace of God and your organ, yours organized it into a system and a structure that provided gates of access and then organization of that human capital in a way that advanced your agenda or connect deep in that relationship. I mean I think it's the first time that I know of in the world where it was like AI for relationship capital. In other words, it was so revolutionary 20 years ago and it's still to this day, I, it is my number one go to for professional relationship management. You once again did this in your personal life. I just, just so happened to thought, think about as you were talking. I have this new book out Capitalism for All which by the way is number 24 on top 25 for USA Today best seller list as of yesterday. And you're an endorser in the book. I mean I just, I just thought about that while we were talking that here's one another example and why is this relevant? I'm meeting with the Federal Reserve chairman Powell two days ago in D.C. and he says I'm beginning to tell him about my work and he says I know who you are and by the way, your book's on my desk and I will read it. And I've never seen so many prominent endorsements on a book. Ever. And he mentioned a few names and you were one of them. So here is the Federal Reserve chairman, the most powerful man in the world on money, talking about Reid Hoffman. And that gave me imbued credibility, very much like you've structured organizationally with LinkedIn. Let's, let's, let's get into. And there's no time audience for all my questions. Just to be clear, I'm gonna just open the door for a couple of them and literally just let read Riff and we can go as deep as he wants to. So AI will create more opportunity than it destroys, is my belief, over time, especially for working people who are not in Silicon Valley. But in the short term, I think it's going to bleed jobs. I think it's going to create an enormous job disruption. And I don't think the country's ready for the disruption. There's nobody planning for it, designing it, cushioning for it, which is shocking to me there. But there's a lot of leaders in the Valley who, and I just disagree with them, don't believe there's going to be job disruption. Sorry, rephrase that. They think there's no future for jobs. That's what they think. And, and I just disagree fundamentally with that. If nothing else, then half of all subscriptions, about half of all subscription to Silicon Valley apps are people, not companies who need a job to pay for the subscription. So it's a circular firing squad. And Even if it's B2B business to business, that B2B ultimately is B2C B2B. And then at some point it's B2C business to consumer, that consumer, the customer, sorry, needs a job. And, and as the economy grows, well, you may grow it with a new piece of technology, but that's going to need something to work on it. It's updated. Problem, solve it, customer, engage with it. Well, hello, those are people. And so I think in the short term we're going to have a job crisis. That's my view. You may disagree, but how are you thinking about all this? Because my opinion doesn't matter. This is an area where you are, we're talking about financial literacy. You defer to me, technology, I'm deferring to you. So feel free on air to disagree with me. You're advising a 25 year old with talent but no connections. What would you tell them to master right now to stay relevant in the AI economy? And what's your general view about AI, the future and jobs? Positive or negative?
- [34:21]
Reid Hoffman
So medium, long term, positive, short term turmoil and chaos. And part of turmoil and chaos and transformation will mean a lot of dislocation. And exactly how and what speed I think it's to. It's very hard to predict exactly. Like, one of the things I've been using as kind of a canary in the coal mine has been, you know, what's going to happen with customer service jobs. Because if you roughly look at any job that you're trying to get, a human being that act like a robot, eg, follow a script, the robot's gonna. The AI is gonna do it so much better. Like, I actually think that before too long, maybe even next year, people will start going, oh, put the robot on, please. Cause the robot's better than the human being for solving my customer service problem. Because, you know, what you have is you have someone like typing into a computer, trying to follow the script and what kind of shit they could do. An AI is much better at that. So there would be ones that will be massive reduction in the number of kind of human seats for the jobs. And customer service is one of them. I think there's others. It doesn't mean all customer service jobs go away. There's like, the architecture of the experience, but it will really go down. So there will be some of those and there'll be real big dislocations. On the other hand, like, for example, one of the classic Silicon Valley ones is because AI is so good at coding, software engineer is going to go away. And I completely disagree with this point of view. I don't think there's even going to be a dip, because what there is is this thing called Jevons Paradox, which is kind of like there's infinite demand for electricity at a certain price and similar, I think there's infinite demand for software engineering at a certain price. And so you make software engineering 100x more productive. People just want it. Now, the thing that that statement obscures is that I actually think salaries for software engineers are going to get wonky, that the really good ones will get really expensive. Like, we'll continue like a power law. And most of them will have a little bit of a decrease in salary, right? Like, you know, will be a little bit less. So we. A wage effect. It won't be a job effect here, but it will be a wage effect. That's another of the kind of turmoil that you get in the interim as these things are sorting out. And so I think that there will be a lot of different. Like all of a sudden, people out of work, all of a sudden the jobs are Paying less, et cetera, of a bunch of the things that people have historically thought were valuable jobs. Like one of the reasons why a lot of kind of American middle class goes and gets law degrees is because they go, I can go be a lawyer and lawyers are well paid. And I think that's one of the ones that's going to have a huge sort of. It'll be similar to software engineers, which is, I actually don't think it's going to go away as a job. I just think that suddenly the wage effect is going to be substantive and so which by the way, I think is productive for society ultimately because I think we want economics going and building things and stuff that we can sell the people and sell overseas and all the rest of it. But for internal and community and economic path dynamics, I think it'll be real. So, so I'm, I'm kind of with you on there's a bunch of stuff coming and don't know exactly. Like, you know, for example, you know, people who I deeply respect, like Dario Amadai last year said it's gonna be a white collar bloodbath within three years. I disagree with that. I don't think it's gonna play that way. But by the way, you know, part of what. And by the way, the other thing you're going to see on AI, just to be clear is like from here for the next, for a number of years, anything that happens is going to be blamed on AI. So you're going to have a company that going, oh, I'm doing layoffs. And as opposed to, well, we've sucked at hiring and our business isn't working and so we're doing layoffs, it's going to be AI because we're productive. Right. Even though, for example, in the ones that have announced that so far, I went and looked at them because I was curious if this is the canary in the cold mine and jobs are starting to change. I looked at it and was like, no, AI has nothing to do with it. It's literally just they're trying to posture their business misplanning or business misfortune as strength because we're using AI. But it will start happening where there will be AI that will have that impact. So, so I'm kind of in a long term bullish, but short term. And the advice per your question is go really start using AI. This is one of the reasons why like education institutions need to not ban chat, GBT, etc. They need to be saying use it because what's going to happen in the job transition is that companies are going to need AI native talent. And the current talent, call it 35 and up, is going to be, you know, slow adopters. The majority of them are going to be very slow adopters. They're going to need new talent that knows what they're doing with AI. There's a small percentage of current people who are beginning to do it. But you can almost already tell like one of the things, the conversations that I frequently have with people is how are you using AI? And if their answer is, well, I occasionally use ChatGPT as a replacement for my Google search, you're like, fine, that's not really using it.
- [39:49]
John Hope Bryant
Right.
- [39:50]
Reid Hoffman
And like the, the record that I sent you, because this is part of like me trying to drive myself is all AI generated music. And I was like, well, this is something that people can do now. Like, like I, who you would pay not to sing. Right. Incompetent to the extreme. Can, can, can, can create a pretty entertaining, you know, record of Christmas songs.
- [40:18]
John Hope Bryant
Sure.
- [40:18]
Reid Hoffman
It's not, I'm not trying to compete with Taylor Swift. I'm not trying to compete well. I'm trying to make a new Beatles thing.
- [40:23]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah.
- [40:23]
Reid Hoffman
I'm just trying to do something else. And all of that's available now. And what young people should be doing is I am generation AI and I can help bring AI to your company.
- [40:37]
John Hope Bryant
Yes, yes. And to be clear or clearer about what he did at Christmas, he went both old school and new school. He took old school vinyl and, and took it through a process that would have required in a record label, production company, production house, engineers, music producers, writers, all this stuff. And, and he created an album, it appears, it sounds like from what he's saying now, which by the way, looked completely professional and sounds good, he created with AI which, which goes to the point that I think that you'll be able to create a million dollar company with one person that will cost you literally at most a few thousand dollars to, to stand, to stand up. Whereas that would have costed a half a million dollars and required a dozen people in the past. So I think that's the example I just heard there. So if you're listening to this and you think you're the average person, you have ambition, you have talent, you have gifts, the average person. And you say, okay, this all sounds great for tech people, but what does Reed say about how this relates to me and Rita? I would say to people and you tell me if I'm wrong here. If you're in a lawyer, get you want to be a lawyer with an AI certification. If you're an accountant, you want an accountant with an accounting certification. You want to be on the cutting edge, not the bleeding edge. Because this is here. It's not optional. I mean, a lot of these companies read is mentioning that again, we'll name nameless. They laid off people and said and announced the AI initiative. They didn't know in many cases what AI was. They just knew their competitor just laid off X number of people and announced AI and they don't want to be caught with their pans down in the middle of a storm. And so they decided to do what their partners were doing, their competitors were doing just a little bit more aggressive to send a signal to the market that they were futurists when they in reality are using AI themselves for Google search, probably. So a lot of you don't know where this is going, don't even know what it is yet. They just know that it is the future. That's my sense of a lot of what's going on now. A bit of the mess. What do you tell the person in the middle of this storm who's not a technologist?
- [42:55]
Reid Hoffman
Yep. So it's a little bit. So AI is the tool that amplifies any work that involves information or language. Right. So if you touch information or language at all in what you're planning on doing. So like for example, even the steel manufacturing plant has meetings, has a supply chain, does financial analysis, all the rest, even if they're manufacturing steel. Right. So if you have that, you need to be on top of it now. You don't have to be a builder, you don't have to be a coder. Matter of fact, part of what's happening is like, I think actually everyone's going to have a coding assistant agent in years because the AI agents can be our coder for us. We're going to have a coder. Right. That's what's going to exist for us. And so, but that's the reason why you should engage. And by the way, all of these AI products are have substantive free versions, ChatGPT, Copilot, etc. They all have substantive free versions. You don't need to pay for them, just start using them. And by the way, using them is not like, okay, what was the, like what was the score on last night's game? Or what was the, you know, the analysis of which plays really mattered?
- [44:16]
Bronte Aurelia
Right.
- [44:16]
Reid Hoffman
You can do that too. That's awesome. But in things that matter to you, like for example, if you Say, hey, I'd like to figure out what, like I'd like to do a financial analysis on my scenario planning of where my risks are in my economics and doing stuff and what kind of money I need to make. AI is great for helping with that. Like, you can literally go to any major frontier model and say, make me a spreadsheet. That is my personal P and L. And I want to include scenario planning for major risks. And I want you to ask me about, like, walk me through what kinds of risks I should consider and I want to do. I want you to give me a, like a, like a personal financial analysis of it. They can all do that. And of course everyone should do that. Right, because that's part of how you approach your financial life with intelligence, risk mitigation and, and, and nowhere to put your efforts.
- [45:20]
John Hope Bryant
Yes. Is it true, Reed, that this is the first technology that helps you with human design? I will. What I mean by that is I will talk to artificial intelligence and, and dream a world or have a specific idea and I'll frame it out in plain English and I'll take idea concept to the left and concept to the right, neither which have touched each other ever. I'll slam them together in a new vision I have for a third line of doing something and I'll say, please tell me if I take A over here and B way over here and I slam in together and have a vision for this other thing over here. How does that work? Does that work? Please analyze this for me and give me a framework for the future of how this might go forward. Is that what you're talking about when you're talking about having I'm using it as a co creator almost. But it's. Is there another technology that you're aware of that allows you to do that? Going into that a little bit with financial analysis, I just did the human version.
- [46:37]
Reid Hoffman
So no, from the viewpoint of there was nothing that can go from kind of almost like your companion in you just helping you refine what your intent is and then creating all the work. Sure, there were spreadsheets before, sure there were software applications before. But like, just like, for example, like tax planning, you know, the best software tax planning stuff before used to be, you know, kind of the equivalent of form filling and kind of working through it. Not like how to actually, in fact, you know, help maximize your taxes. Not just like for now what you have, but what kinds of things you might do differently in order to do that previously that required a person, by the way, it still could be helpful with the person. But now you can do this with just the thing. And so, for example, like, when you get to think about like, what is the promise of AI, I think all of us within a small number of years will have a medical assistant that's essentially free to operate for, you know, concerns around like, oh, you know, is this a cancerous, you know, melanoma or whatever, or I have these symptoms, should I be worried, should I go down to the clinic, etc, a legal assistant, namely, I'm looking at this rental agreement, is this okay or not? For example, and an educational assistant for anything. And, and you know, part of the promise of this is we should as a society and that we might just through the natural workings of the economics and have all three of these things in substantial quality for free for everyone in society. That's a huge human amplification. Yes, right. And then that helps you with a bunch of other things. Like for example, right now, only wealthy people can afford legal help fundamentally.
- [48:35]
John Hope Bryant
Right.
- [48:35]
Reid Hoffman
I mean, sure, there's public defenders and other things, you know, and, and pro bono stuff for public interest law, but most often the only legal stuff, like most people, when they encounter a rental agreement, like, I don't know, I'll read it, I'm not sure, I gotta live somewhere, gonna sign it. But they don't know. Right. Whereas now, by the way, you can already even do that today. You can go to chat gbt. Yeah. And you can put it in and go, give me an analysis of this. Is there anything I should be worried about here?
- [49:09]
John Hope Bryant
The legal thing is particularly interesting. I had another aha recently. In 40 years, I've not sued or been sued anybody. It's all worked out because everybody I've done business with, I prescreened they were decent. I got into a shotgun marriage on a business deal, meaning that the money was the motivation. And I met the person who was presenting the money, was buying one of my companies. Anyway, I am now end up in a legal bruha with this situation to try to exit it, which is fine. And I've spent, you know, six figures just trying to defend the truth. I mean, the truth is right there. It's obvious. But my naive, my naivete was, well, this, this is quick, because this is so obvious. But no, you've got to go through the process of making the obvious materially relevant to the court. And that requires a process that requires at the moment a lot of legal wrangling at by the hour. And so truth alone is not enough. And in this new world, I see that barrier Lowering from what I'm spending, what I've spent already, which is six figures and I'm happy to do it. Luckily, I can. I see that. Lowering to five figures and maybe four. So you're providing a lot of support to your legal assistant or your legal system. Providing support for a, in this case, really good journeyman attorney who's processing. Am I on the right track here?
- [50:43]
Reid Hoffman
A thousand percent. And by the way, I think it's everything from I can't afford anything whatsoever. I get some help from AI, I can. But I can now pay somebody, this is the person with AI, to provide high quality legal for small amounts of money because they can do it in a really efficient way. Just like, for example, like tax filing is going to completely change because it's like, oh, I can file your taxes for an hour worth of work. You know, working on these agents, even when they're pretty complicated.
- [51:18]
John Hope Bryant
Yeah.
- [51:19]
Reid Hoffman
And I can do a better job than I could before when I was spending 20 hours.
- [51:23]
Bronte Aurelia
Okay, so quick behind the scenes moment about my business because people always ask me, like, how do I actually run everything? So Shopify is literally the platform where I turned this tiny idea into a business. Before this, I was really just like popping up at any in person event, any vending opportunity I could, which I still do. But I wasn't really as focused online. I was like, you know, the websites are going to be too much to build out. I'm not like a super techy person, even though I can make things cute. And I didn't want to put up a website that would run my customers away. I wanted it to be efficient, to be easy. And Shopify helped me build brown girlgrinding.com out. Once I switched to Shopify, it finally clicked like, okay, I can actually do this. It's not about it being tough. It's about using the right platform to make it easy. Shopify takes all of the guesswork out. I build my own store, I manage my community, own my own customer relationships. Plus, this is my favorite thing. Shopify gets my products everywhere. I'm able to link stuff through Google, YouTube, TikTok, Shop the Shop app, even ChatGPT and Instagram, which is very important for me. And Shopify's AI co founder sidekick, game changer, let me tell y'. All, right? So it's helped me not only optimize my site, it helps me look at my sales trends, it updates my product skills, all the stuff I'm absolutely not an expert in. But it's like having a genius business partner that never sleeps. And right now the Bronco grinding storefront in the Black Effects storefront is busy and Shopify is handling all of the heavy lifting. I love that for us. I am pumped, like so pumped that Shopify is going to show up at the Black Effect Podcast Festival this year in a big way. And I will be there preaching this platform to all of the small black owned businesses that partner with us. So if you've been sitting on an idea or if you're ready to scale, which you've already started, this is your sign. Go to shopify.com Ben if I can do it, you can do it too.
- [53:19]
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Bronte Aurelia
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- [54:37]
John Hope Bryant
Within probably 10 days, I'd put on £10. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.
- [54:43]
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- [54:52]
John Hope Bryant
Let's get into some final really hard hitting questions. This has been fabulous. I mean, this is the piece you gave about the three assistance that everybody should have I think is mind blowing. And as much as I think about this, I hadn't thought about that. It's really quite. That's inspiring by itself. Will this technology increase or decrease connectiveness or disconnectedness, wealth or the lack thereof? That's cool. And I know that a Lot of this is depends, but what's your assess? What's your assessment? Number two, what are jobs going to look like in the future? Somebody listening to this, what kind of jobs do you think they should be preparing themselves for? Number three, if you're an entrepreneur or a business person listening to this, does this lower the barrier or increase it? And what are some opportunities you suggest for them? I have a larger question after this, but these are three practical ones.
- [55:50]
Reid Hoffman
Yep. So I'll, I'll go kind of brass tacks and quickly. We all of these are questions we can spend the whole hour on. So I'm just going to kind of throw that. So I think the initial impact of AI will, will be to decrease connectedness, in part because you're spending more time with AI. The AI has various features that other human beings don't have. Like it's always trying to please you and agree with you and so forth. And so I think the initial thing will be a dip there. I think that's a problem. I think we want to construct AI to increase human connectedness. It's one of the companies I co founded called Inflection AI, which is a chatbot called PI pun intended, but personal intelligence. And that's to have high EQ and enhanced connectedness. But I think that's going to be one of the challenges. I think it will create a bunch of wealth opportunities, but it's kind of like a earthquake on the whole current system. So, for example, you know, where will be the economic opportunities will be very different five to ten years from now than they are today. And kind of how does that play out? And so, and that's part of the reason my general advice is learn and be AI native.
- [57:13]
John Hope Bryant
Yes.
- [57:13]
Reid Hoffman
Because then whatever the opportunities, you might be in a well position to go towards one of the good economic opportunities. And so I think that's, you know, kind of fundamental to it. And I think a lot of people hate that because they like stability, they like being able to predict, you know, a kind of a good economic future. And I understand and I appreciate, but it's similar to kind of the Industrial revolution, which is all of a sudden we're moving from agriculture into the cities and doing stuff. And by the way, there's a whole bunch of challenges around that, but it's what creates the entire future life. So I think that's the wealth side. Now for jobs, it's, you know, adjunct to the wealth, which is, look, I think there will be a number of jobs, I think there will be new jobs created. But Basically, you know, within a small n number of years. I think it's kind of like if the job involves language or information at all and you're not using AI, that's a little bit like you show up going, you know, I'm offering my horse for transportation of things in the age of the automobile and in the railroad. Right. So it's like you need to like, be more substantive on it. Now, on entrepreneurship, the short answer is it'll both increase low. Increase capability for doing it and increase challenge. It's like both sides, partially because you'll have the entrepreneurial advisor, just like the kind of legal and medical advisors. You'll be able to parse a bunch of things, you'll be able to do financial analysis, you'll be able to have software coding and be able to launch certain kinds of products much more easily, et cetera. The increase of challenges, everyone else gets the same thing. So, for example, if you think the App Store, just as a microcosm, the App Store is. Is full and busy today, it's going to have a thousand times that in a year or two.
- [59:11]
John Hope Bryant
Yes.
- [59:11]
Reid Hoffman
How do you break through the noise? And what do you do? And the competition is intense and all the rest. So it both will create make entrepreneurship easier because it'll bring certain resources to bear, but it makes it easier for everybody, which means the competition goes way, way up.
- [59:28]
John Hope Bryant
Yes. I used to be impressed with certain letters that came to me that had certain language in it or certain insights about me in the letter inviting me to speak or whatever. I'm not impressed anymore because now they could just go to AI and have AI write you that letter. And I can tell an AI assisted letter when it comes to me. So that's that competition. Raising the stakes, table stakes on what competency looks like. What's a basic. What is a basic. Whatever it comes to you. A business plan used to be a. I mean, oh, my God, the person has a business plan. Now everybody will have a business plan and it'll. And it'll look really sharp. So the differentiator will be different. Okay, I have 35 questions and I'm throwing them all out because. And I've never had 35 questions for anybody read ever, ever, ever, ever. That's how interesting I think you are. Maybe we'll do another podcast, but in the remaining moments, let's just throw the doors open. You're giving a. A fireside chat with America and the world. America to be. Compete to be. To try to go from 250 years of success and dominance to another 50 years. You're giving also a discussion to the world about the, about the future. You're a futurist conversation. You got the global media presence, everybody's listening to you. You got five or ten minutes. So you got to be blunt. You're a futurist. You got to be blunt. You're trying to be optimistic, but you have to be practical too. What do you tell a world that's both in play right now and a world waiting to be born? There's some lady with a, who's pregnant with a three month old, she's three months pregnant. There's young people looking towards the future. There was elderly trying to figure out can they retire. There's people in the job market right now who are making six figures, trying to figure out how disruptive is this going to be. People who are both fearful and hopeful. You're the futurist. What do you say?
- [61:38]
Reid Hoffman
So the short answer is we're heading into a combination of an earthquake and a tsunami. It's going to shake everything up. That's going to be scary. It's going to have some negative adverse impacts across a number of different things. And you know, your instinct will be, oh, let's stop it, let's slow it down, etc. But the problem is, is it's, it's a competitive human scope. So for example, you know, those countries which rejected the Industrial revolution basically had, you know, centuries of poverty and being colonized by other countries that did the Industrial revolution. So you have to, you have to embrace it. It does mean, by the way, just like the Industrial revolution which, you know, in its first decades lowered the average lifespan by seven years, right? Like this is not like these, these are not small costs as they kind of go into them, but you have to go into it for future generations. Now that being said, that doesn't mean that we want to just blindly accept every challenge and negative, you know, kind of effect that can happen. We should try to steer it towards, you know, kind of navigating the transition, navigating the transformation as humanly as possible. And so for example, part of what I've been, you know, telling governments for, you know, almost a decade now is like, you know, well, get these assistants, the medical, the legal, the educational, you know, there be working with, like, how do we make sure that new jobs are being created at a rate and that we're facilitating people to find, learn and do those new jobs. By the way, AI can help you with all those. So make AI part of the solution. So I Think we can mitigate the transformation apart because we can use AI to help with the transition. Yeah, but, but like, it's like, buckle up. It's going to be like a, it's, it's going to be a taxing ride. And, and that's true for everybody. It's weirdly less true. Like 70% of our economy is service economy. And the service economy is going to be the tail end of this, right? The whole like, you know, the waiter being replaced by a robot is just stupid at the moment because robots, it'll be a while before they're, they're, they're cheap enough for that and good enough and good enough, right? So like there's a whole bunch, it's like, oh, that's fine. But like the core engine of the economy which, which then pays for all the service jobs because someone comes in and says, oh, well, we sell these products around the world and so forth. So we have a bunch of money that comes into our company and we can hire accountants and we go to restaurants. Like, like that is going to be, you know, kind of shaken up in some, you know, transformed in some interesting ways. And it's in our interest to do it in our interest to do it quickly, but also in our interest to try to do it as humanly as possible, which means how do we help with the transition? So the, the question for people is how do we, how do, how, how do you help yourself and how do we help each other in navigating these transformations? Because the future, by the way, I think, will be a greater impact on human society to the positive than the Industrial revolution is. And by the way, to some degree, all of our modern prosperity, a middle class versus a peasant or a serf class, a ability to do public education and a broad franchise, you know, the ability to have public health, you know, not just, you know, limited to the uber wealthy. All of that comes from the Industrial revolution. Yes, we're about to see another magnification of that. It's totally worth it, but it's going to be a painful ride.
- [65:40]
John Hope Bryant
That was brilliant. And I know we're running out of time. We've run out of time. We're going to wrap this up. I, I, there's so many things firing off in my head. I'd love to have done another hour, as you said, we could have done each of these topics, could have been an hour themselves. We'll wrap this up and maybe back, if you wouldn't mind, for a part two.
- [65:56]
Reid Hoffman
Love it.
- [65:57]
John Hope Bryant
It strikes me, it struck me as you were talking Reed. Again, we just don't have time for this conversation. But it's mindblowing. I never thought about this before. If Africa, you know, people, you know, I don't deal with. I'm not bothered by racism or discrimination as, as Ambassador Young says, I don't pay attention to discrimination because I don't think anybody is any better than me. But the racism or the discrimination, the, the view of certain people had in the 1500s, 1600s of Africa meant they didn't take them seriously as a competitive intellectual force that could root industrialization. They just saw them as a resource base that they could extract from for industrialization, including people who had talents of agriculture, their agricultural geniuses, and they brought them to the southern states where the soil was very diff. Was very similar, humid and hot, and needed the genius of Africans to reign, ignite it. But we didn't go back from the agricultural age and say, hey, thanks for that. There's an industrial age now and we want to invest. So Africa sort of missed industrialization. It missed the technology age, it missed a lot of the information age and is now trying to, to catch up on the back end. And I think it can. But it struck me I hadn't, it hadn't hit me before that literally there's like at least two ages that jumped over Africa. And when you said that they're nations who did not embrace industrialization or whatever, the thing was, look at them now, they got left behind. Well, that's Africa. That's, you know, there's a lot of other places, by the way, too. Yes, and it is. Michael Milken would say intelligence is equally distributed. Opportunity is not.
- [67:49]
Reid Hoffman
Yes.
- [67:50]
John Hope Bryant
And this has a chance to sort of level that playing field, if you will, is what hit me. I hope I got that right, 100%. This has been fascinating and so many things going off in my head about why this conversation needs to be the conversation for a while. Thank you. Reid Hoffman, is. Is there anything that you want the world to know, to hear, to think about, to remember about you personally, about professionally, your passions and or advice you have for them for the future as we wrap up?
- [68:33]
Reid Hoffman
Well, I think that the, it's broadly, the AI revolution is going to happen, the tsunami is going. And you want to get your. Whether it's a surfboard, a sailing boat or whatever, you know, kiteboard, you want to get it out and start working on it. And it's. And it's, it's the. Yeah, exactly. Start paddling is the most important thing to do. And so you know, part of what I'm spending my time doing, writing books, you know, super agency, impromptu startup review, etc. And doing podcasts like this is trying to help people see that so that they can grab their own. They. To. To maximize the chance that you can grab your own agency in the tsunami.
- [69:18]
John Hope Bryant
I have a bonus question that I promise you will be the last one. It just hit me. I'm on the board of Clark Atlanta University, and they're embracing AI and financial literacy and artificial intelligence literacy, which is great. So smart. It. Whereas up until now, you've had one or two careers for your whole life. You had a competency, and that lasted you for 50 years. In that competency, maybe you had two careers, maybe you shifted. I believe again on air. Disagree with me. I love constructive friction. I believe that very much. Like when I used to send a document to somebody in the. In the past, they say that's an impressive document. Now no one even comments on the document. They assume the document is going to be impressive. Now they're like, they're basically saying, you're an impressive person. I'm going to deal with you because of who you are. Of course, the document is supposed to be at this level. That's a new expectation because of AI and all the things that, that allow you to prepare a great document. So I think that you're going to have careers that might be. You might have five, six, eight different careers as a graduate because it's no longer the. The thing is no longer the thing. Because AI can help. You can help master the thing. You need to be the leader on top of the thing, the differentiator on top of the thing that moves the thing. And so you might end up having five, six, eight different careers because you, you're bringing you as a differentiator to the thing. The thing itself has become less. Not important, but it is in itself intelligent. Okay, did that make any sense at all?
- [71:01]
Reid Hoffman
Yes, look. So the short answer is the future jobs are that you are broadly being the conductor of AI agents as an orchestra. Now, there'll be some stuff that you're still doing yourself, but it's that. And that does mean that as opposed to a job, it's a sequence of jobs. And so like my very first book, the Startup Review, which is, we all have to embrace the entrepreneurial side. It doesn't mean that we have to create companies, but we have to think of ourselves as the skill set of entrepreneurs. That's what's going to happen. And so, you know, as opposed to a career escalator. You're going to have a career jungle gym and the AI will help you with the jungle gym.
- [71:41]
John Hope Bryant
I'm glad. I'm glad I asked the last bonus question. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a genius. This is the man, an innovator, a a legend in our time. Reid Hoffman, when you go to your LinkedIn, thank him. Reed, thank you for joining us on Money and Wealth on Black effect network on iHeartradio. This has been a transformational interview and Rita said we will be back for more.
- [72:09]
Reid Hoffman
Awesome.
- [72:12]
John Hope Bryant
Money and wealth with John o' Brien is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast Network, visit.
- [72:20]
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- [72:50]
Bronte Aurelia
Therapy is fantastic, but once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community. Because I really just want you to have more access on the podcast.
- [72:59]
Reid Hoffman
Cultivating her space Dr. Dahm and Terri Lomax create a space where black women
- [73:05]
Bronte Aurelia
can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving individuals.
- [73:13]
Reid Hoffman
Listen to Cultivating her space on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [73:20]
Bronte Aurelia
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.