Nathan King (2:03)

So we had to go out to farmers and convince them.

Marc Seal (2:06)

Following that, curiosity is a superpower.

John Hope Bryant (2:08)

You have to be obsessed with the human condition.

Nathan King (2:11)

Listen to Building One on the iHeartRadio app, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.

John Hope Bryant (2:16)

Welcome to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant, a production of the Black Effect podcast network and iHeartRadio foreign. Hey, hey, hey. This is John Hope Bryant. And this is Money and Wealth on the Black Effect Network. As you know, I normally don't have guests. I'm having a conversation directly with you about the things that I believe matter most. Every now and then, I bring in somebody who I believe is not only a value add, but a game changer. That's the case today. My brother from another mother, a bad boy. He doesn't walk on water, but he knows where the stones are. I'm introducing everybody. Well, you already know who he is. It's Will Packer. Well, honored to have you with us. But to say having you with us is to really talk about your mom and your dad, Mr. And Mrs. Packer from St. Petersburg, Florida, who raised you your whole life as mom and dad. Not baby Daddy, not baby mama. Mom and dad, who took no prisoners, who were excellent, who don't probably get, like most of our mom and dads, the credit that they deserve. But I think that you would want to underscore, as we're talking about where you are now and how you're moving forward in this great book that you have coming out very soon here that I encourage everybody to go pick up, the Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big. And that's a big title. And we're going to get into why and what and who. But my guess is, in many ways, you are breathing life and everything you do as a direct reflection of growing up in St. Petersburg with your mom and your dad. So I want to get into that in a second. For the audience who loves credentials. I got some. This is money and wealth. Let's talk about the money first. His combined filmmaking collection that he's produced himself, responsible for over a billion dollars in receivables worldwide. That's US Currency. That's not pesos. Will Packer is a graduate. Magna cum laude, not. Thank you, la magna cum laude. Florida A&M University in 1996, Bachelor's of Science degree, get this now, in electrical engineering. So following his dad's footsteps, which we'll get into in a moment, he had a vision that he fulfilled. And that vision you see in films and television shows. You've got chocolate city in 1994 that he did through Rain Forest Films, you've got Will Packer Productions, which did films that you remember, like Think Like a Man, Ride Along, Girls, Trip. You know, these. These are. These are iconic films that you may not have known the guy behind them. He has produced the Academy Awards. That was the 94th annual in 2022. He has most recently become one of four limited partners in an NFL team, the Atlanta Falcons. He is deeply involved in his community. He is a philanthropist, let's just call it that way. At the HBCUs, most notably his home university where he graduated from, he's always showing up, showing out and giving back. If I recall, Will, you had a 10 year run of a TV series as well.

Marc Seal (6:38)

Ready to Love.

John Hope Bryant (6:40)

That's it.

Marc Seal (6:41)

Yeah. Yeah. The longest running African American dating show on television. Ready to Love on, on own, on Oprah's network. That's correct. Yeah. Right.

John Hope Bryant (6:48)

I was just talking to Oprah the other day, who's an icon in our world.

Marc Seal (6:52)

Yeah.

John Hope Bryant (6:53)

So your credentials, your bona fide, and this is just a small collection of what you have done. I just did the high water mark. But a lot of this goes back to mom and dad, is that right?

Marc Seal (7:06)

No question, no question. First of all, thank you so much for having me. The fact that you allow me to come on. You're using your platform. You always use your platform for good and strengthening our community with knowledge, especially when it comes to the financial literacy piece. Part of what you always push, John, is the positive cycle and the positivity of how the cyclical effect of knowledge and equity can benefit a community. Not just an individual, but a community. You're very big on community. Well, it's important that you started where you did because you're absolutely right. It is by no mistake that I sit here. I'm very proud to be successful by any metric, certainly the financial ones. But for me, I measure success on, you know, on health and well being, mental health and what I give back to the community. I'm successful in those ways because I had an incredible foundation.

John Hope Bryant (8:10)

Yep.

Marc Seal (8:11)

I did have two parents. Glad you pointed that out. Not a lot of people do, but I had a two parent household, right. And a dad and a mom loved each other, worked together. I was born into a world where I knew I had a dual foundation of support from mom, from dad, balancing each other out and telling me, I always like to say, when I came into the world, my parents lifted me into the air like Simba and the Lion King. And they said, you see that? They took me to the highest point they could find, say, everything the sun touches is yours. We have to start doing that to our children. We have to start doing that to that next generation. Everything that you see is possible. And I had the audacity to believe my parents when they told me that, when they told me, you can go out and you can do anything. That's the only way. A little Black kid from St. Pete, Florida, about as far as you can get from Hollywood on a map.

John Hope Bryant (9:11)

Yep.

Marc Seal (9:12)

I didn't know where Hollywood was. I didn't know anything about the entertainment business. But that little kid was told, you can do and be anything you want if you set your mind to it and you're willing to work. And I believe them.

John Hope Bryant (9:25)

I believe them when I think about you. I don't. I actually find the title of your book interesting because I think people in our community confuse arrogance with confidence. We're so used to not seeing real confidence that we can confuse it with arrogance. And so I want you to unpack the title because I know you did it intentionally, you did it provocatively. But one thing I like about you, one of the many things is, and we never talked about this, but I absolutely believe that is our shared philosophy. There's a lot of love in the word. No, I rather you rather people respect you and learn to like you than like you never respect you. An entrepreneur works 18 hours a day to keep and getting a job. So you're committed to the work and so no one's going to deny you on excellence. Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. You, you've doubled down, you've tripled down. You've, you've achieved it. So there's no reason to not believe it. That is not one ounce of your self esteem, to quote Quincy Jones, that depends on someone else's acceptance of you. So you're reasonably comfortable in your own skin. Which is to me goes back to your parents saying you are somebody, you can do anything you want to do. And again lifting you up. So again we all start from someplace and I want to really underscore for this audience that part of wealth is culture and perspective. And we model what we see. And your kids. And when you bring a child in this world, you want to be more than a sperm donor. Right. You want to be a positive influence in their life. And when you succeed, you need to understand whether you're succeeding or you're failing is an old southern quote. No matter how much I love you, my son or my daughter, if I don't have wisdom I can give you is my own ignorance. And that watch how you live your life. It may be the only bible anybody else reads. So all of those quotes that I just used to me embody your spirit. So when you write a book called the Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big, I know every word was intentional. Some of it Meant to trigger a little bit. So the book comes out, by the way, February 18th. I want everybody to go buy it. I want you to send Will a note on social media saying that you purchased it. I want you to leave a review once you read it or listen to it online, where you bought it. We've got to, as people of color, I want everybody to buy the book. But I certainly. People of color, we've got to make Smart sexy again. Way too long. We've done that, celebrated it. It's time to make smart sexy again. The biggest group of buyers of books in this country are black women. Buy this book. I want you to leave a review. Don't boycott somebody. I want you to clear the shelves. I want you to buy everything that they got that's from a black man or a black woman to show that we have power.

Marc Seal (12:28)

Yes. Well, it's interesting you talk about that power, the working in Hollywood, right? And one of the reasons I even wrote the book is because I've had a three decade career in Hollywood and over those 30 years I've been able to work with some of the most, you know, famous people, some of the most well known, powerful, some of the richest folks, also some of the most toxic people, some of the people that are the most insecure, some of the people that have got a lot of negativity that swirls around them all the time. Having to deal with people in that environment, I learned a set of skills that I believe is transferable to any industry. The other thing I learned is that what you just said about the power belonging to the consumer. Hollywood, like any consumer facing industry, operates under an economic imperative. People get it confused sometimes. They think, oh well, Hollywood is trying to promote a particular agenda. They only want to see this type of person win or that type of person. Hollywood is a business. Hollywood is driven by, by its consumers, not the other way around. Hollywood is reactive, not proactive. And so the power always is in the consumer. I tell people all the time, if there's content out there that that's being made and you don't like it, you want to see more of a different type of content, go find that content and spread the word, Proselytize like you would something that is very important to you in another area, let people know. Because when you do that, folks like myself and also the people that are financing projects in Hollywood, they have to pay attention. They have to, right? So you're absolutely right about that. I titled the book. So the title of the book is who better than you and Then the subtitle is the Art of Healthy Arrogance and Dreaming Big. And the title, who Better Than you? Clearly states. Clearly states the question that each of us need to ask ourselves. Not once a year, not once a month, not once a week. Every day. Every day, ask yourself. Look yourself right in the mirror and affirm that there is no one better than you to achieve. And I don't mean achieve like mediocre dreams. Right. I don't mean achieve things that are kind of good. I mean great. I mean huge, outsized, audacious. John, at the end of the day, the folks in this world that you and I know that have been extremely successful are people that believe not only that they could do it, but that they were going to do it and that they were meant to do it. And when you walk into a room and I've been right there with you, you and I've been in some powerful rooms, brother.

John Hope Bryant (15:17)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (15:18)

In those rooms.

John Hope Bryant (15:19)

Always following you.

Marc Seal (15:20)

Yeah. Don't believe that. In those rooms. Sometimes I'm like, what am I doing here? And then I see you. I said, well, let me go talk to my friend John, because he's the only one I know here, and everybody else knows him. You know what I mean? What I would say is that you walk into those rooms and we've all been in those positions, and you're around people and. And, you know, you may have a little bit of trepidation, what am I doing here? Do I belong?

John Hope Bryant (15:46)

Yes.

Marc Seal (15:48)

Once you have that confidence.

John Hope Bryant (15:50)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (15:51)

You walk into the room and that confidence manifests itself in ways that you don't even realize. You don't walk in and say, what am I doing here? You walk in and say, what can I add to this room?

John Hope Bryant (16:03)

That's right.

Marc Seal (16:04)

This room is better because I'm in it.

John Hope Bryant (16:06)

That's right.

Marc Seal (16:07)

And I'm out to show people.

John Hope Bryant (16:08)

That's right.

Marc Seal (16:09)

See, when I say healthy arrogance, make no mistake, healthy area, that is very important. It's very important because we associate arrogance. And most times it is toxic arrogance. Arrogance. And toxic arrogance is about tearing people down. It is about, I'm better than you. Right. I'm going to beat you.

John Hope Bryant (16:28)

Right.

Marc Seal (16:28)

Look at me. Everybody look at me. And don't look at them. Right? That is what typical arrogance is. And I know I work in Hollywood.

John Hope Bryant (16:35)

I'm tired of talking. I'm tired talking about me now you talk about me.

Marc Seal (16:39)

Exactly. Exactly. Right. Nothing about you worry about me. I work in an industry of. That created unsubstantiated hubris. Right. I'm not Talking about that healthy arrogance is that supreme confidence in yourself that helps you to understand what true leaders understand, which is that I'm successful when I can get you and the other persons around us to realize that our success is tied together. Right. So it's not about tearing anybody else down. It is about lifting yourself and everybody else around you up. True leaders are able to get people to roll in the same direction.

John Hope Bryant (17:20)

That's right.

Marc Seal (17:21)

It is. Not until you get the folks that are either on your team and your network and your family and your relationships to understand that your success benefits them and vice versa. That's what true leaders do. And that's when you get people saying, oh, you know what? I need John Hope Franklin to win because I don't want to win, because I'm working with him, because his success is my success. Right. Because he is the person that is helping to unlock success for all of us.

John Hope Bryant (17:50)

Yes.

Marc Seal (17:51)

And so too many times we get in these silos and that's where that arrogance comes in, tearing everybody else down. I, I, if you win it, I'm losing. No, you can't think like that. It's about first that internal self confidence. And that self confidence is a muscle that you can build over time. You can build up. Right. I know that people that may be watching that aren't, you know, weren't born with the outsized confidence that maybe John or myself have. That's okay. You can build it up. And you do it by doing small things and by succeeding at small things and by looking yourself in that mirror every day and giving yourself the credit for it. And you go on to something bigger and then something bigger, and before you know it, you got some momentum going. So that's, that's where my concept of, of healthy arrogance came.

Oracle Representative (18:44)

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Marc Seal (19:34)

Get the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com stereo get this free guide at netsuite.com stereo okay guys.

Ad Council Representative (19:44)

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well being@sounditouttogether.org that's sounditouttogether.org brought to you by the ad.

Nathan King (19:58)

Council and pivotal I'm Mark Seale. And I'm Nathan King.

Marc Seal (20:02)

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

Nathan King (20:07)

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli is based on my co host Mark's best selling book of the same title. And on this show we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the Godfather's birth. From start to finish, this is really.

Marc Seal (20:19)

The first interview I've done in bed.

Nathan King (20:22)

We sift through innumerable accounts. 35 pages isn't very much, many of them conflicting.

Marc Seal (20:28)

That's nonsense.

Nathan King (20:29)

There were 60 pages and try to get to the truth of what really happened.

Marc Seal (20:32)

And they said we're finished. This is over. It's not going to work. Dare get rid of those guys. This is disaster.

Nathan King (20:38)

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others.

John Hope Bryant (20:47)

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

Nathan King (20:49)

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the cannoli starting February 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Seaman (21:00)

Did you know that companies hire the most in the first two months of the year? Or that nearly half of workers are worried about being left behind? I am Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development and my show Get Hired brings you all the information you need to, well, get hired.

Marc Seal (21:17)

People are forming opinions of you even before you log into the zoom or walk into the room. And so you really have to think.

Tomer Cohen (21:23)

About what is it I want to display. You don't plant a garden and then.

Marc Seal (21:26)

Just walk away and expect it to thrive.

Tomer Cohen (21:29)

You are in there pulling out the weeds. You're pruning it, you're watering it.

Marc Seal (21:32)

It's the same thing with your network.

Tomer Cohen (21:34)

You should always be in there actively managing your network.

Marc Seal (21:36)

If you don't feel confident to say a number, even admitting that to a recruiter is going to be far better.

Andrew Seaman (21:41)

Than saying, well, what is your budget for the role?

Marc Seal (21:43)

A lot is in the follow up, right? Don't wait to follow up.

Andrew Seaman (21:47)

Whether you're a new grad, an established professional or contemplating a career change, get hired is for you. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you like to listen.

John Hope Bryant (22:05)

I want people to slow down and, and rewind this and listen slowly to what he said. Take it to half speed and listen to what he said. How he impact that is very important. His differentiation. How did I describe him? I said he's reasonably comfortable in his own skin. No one's comfortable in their own skin. That's a lie. He acknowledged when he went. When he comes into the room, When I go into a room, I'm acknowledging sometimes there's a little bit of a, of a wondering whether you're worthy of being in that room. Everybody does a little bit of insecurity, that's okay. Natural, it goes away. It's natural. It keeps you from being obnoxious, right? It is a humility. But then you but rainbows after storms. Then you buck up and you say, yeah, I really, I'm God's child. I am somebody. I'm different from everybody here and I add value. And all of a sudden that warmth, that authenticity attracts people to you. And you look up and Will's got 10 people around him, pulling seats around him. As we were at the last I saw him at a Magic Johnson reception in Atlanta. You look up and there's a half dozen people centering around him, trying to pull off of his energy because he's the strongest energy in that room. That healthy. I'm going to call it the moment confidence that comes from self esteem. If I don't like me, I'm not gonna like you. If I don't feel good about me, I'm not gonna feel good about you.

Marc Seal (23:32)

That is right.

John Hope Bryant (23:33)

Me. Don't expect me to respect you if I don't love me, I don't have a clue how to love you don't have a clue because in my life, I'll make your life a living hell and hurt people. So. So he is trying to get you to adopt yourself, huh?

Marc Seal (23:49)

How about that? How about that? And just to go a little bit further with that, when you realize that the most important voice that you're going to hear all day is yours, and you start off with that voice telling you you're qualified, you're prepared, you have the skills, you are ready for whatever may come today, that's the most important voice. You probably aren't going to hear it anymore the rest of that day. But when you hear it from the most important voice first, you are better prepared. You are undergirded to go out and face the challenges of the day. Too often we give our power away to people because they may have a fancy title, they may have access to resources. Nothing wrong with interfacing with folks that are in positions of power at all. Nothing wrong with taking in what they say, what they say in their perspectives. You said there's a little love in every. No, Right?

John Hope Bryant (25:03)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (25:04)

What I see people doing, especially in my industry, John, is they're giving their power to people.

John Hope Bryant (25:10)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (25:11)

Who aren't them. I sent my script to Will Packer and Will Packer said no. He said he's not gonna produce it. I sent it to Sony and they said no. I sent it to Paramount. They said no. Or I auditioned for Will Packer movie and I didn't get the role. That's just that person's perspective, opinion and decision being made based on their unique set of experiences.

John Hope Bryant (25:34)

It's not a value on you.

Marc Seal (25:36)

You gotta remember that.

John Hope Bryant (25:38)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (25:39)

Even though this person is. All those fancy things that John said about me at the beginning of this all that's true. That still doesn't mean that I have the right to assign value to you, your life or your dream.

John Hope Bryant (25:51)

Yep.

Marc Seal (25:51)

I may say, you know, I'm not gonna hire you as an actress. Or you may have somebody saying they're not going to invest in your new business venture. You may have a. A new boss that you apply for a job. I'm not gonna hire you. That's okay. That's that person's opinion. But don't give your power to say that your dream is not over until you say it's over. Don't give that to anybody. I don't care what their title is. That's right. I don't care what access to resources they have, how rich they are. I don't care.

John Hope Bryant (26:17)

That's right.

Marc Seal (26:17)

That is your power. That's why you're the most important person. You gotta affirm that daily. You really, really do. Because that's the thing that gets you get used to hearing. And then you start to expect yourself to perform that way. Just like it works in the opposite direction. If you have that drumbeat of negativity always telling you, I'm not ready, I'm not worthy, I don't have it, I'm not prepared. If you're Constantly telling yourself that that drum beat gets louder and louder. It works the other way. It's the positive cycle. Just like we talked about before. Just like John you talk about all the time. That's the. That's that positive cycle, that cycle of positivity that you can create within yourself. We're talking about. You have an internal conversation. You don't need anybody else to help you with this. You don't need any money. You don't need any mentor. This is something that you can do. Start with yourself. Don just said, adopt yourself. I love that mantra. I love that. Right? Because it requires you to love yourself. It requires you to nurture yourself. It requires you to take care of yourself and give yourself what you need. That's where you got to start. And not enough of us do that. That's where that question, who better than you comes from.

John Hope Bryant (27:21)

I don't think this applies to you now, but 20 years ago, I would say one of your greatest assets was. There's a lot of. I mean, you take no for vitamins. I mean, I know that was also one of my greatest assets. You didn't. You ignored the noise and you didn't let a no define. You take no for vitamins. And it's a little bit of what you're telling people coming at you now and others who are getting rejected. Not rejecting you. We're just saying this doesn't work. For what I'm doing right now has no identity. I'm not identifying you at all. I'm not even thinking about you thinking about my project. So you early on had to. As you were building this up, you had to take no for vitamins and believe in yourself and say, focus on the rare yes you got, not the nose you didn't get. The glass was half full, not half empty. The what I see you now is. And we share this trait and never said this to you publicly, but we're both ruthless about our time. We'll give away the money to be.

Marc Seal (28:18)

Have to be.

John Hope Bryant (28:19)

Don't mess with our time. Listen, say no to things. A will. I'm sorry, brother, I can't do that. Hey, roll up. I gotta be in central pay. Can't do that. Yeah, no, that doesn't work right now. Good luck with that. You're focused. You're absolutely laser focused on the thing you want to achieve.

Marc Seal (28:40)

Yeah.

John Hope Bryant (28:41)

No shade to anybody else. But you can't be successful in life unless you're focused on what you're trying to achieve. So what are some? What are some? Why don't you give. Drop some, some, some. I'm gonna get into some tactical stuff from the book, but why don't you drop a few pearls of wisdom that people can expect from this book that are tied to your. Or they won't. Maybe they won't get it from this book. Your life philosophy. What are half of the rules 2, 3, 4, 6 that Bill Packer lives by, that comes. That was between your parents raising you and becoming massively successful. That piece in the middle is what people. People are missing and what we're going to give them today in this podcast is hope with the business plan. So before we get into practical questions about that, are lessons from the book and lessons for life. People listening. What are those values that differentiate you that have made you thrive and not just survive?

Marc Seal (29:37)

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. So one of the things that I talk about is a big belief of mine that sometimes you have to go out and climb the mountain. What do I mean by that? Many of us have what I call preparation paralysis.

John Hope Bryant (30:00)

Oh, I want to hear this.

Marc Seal (30:02)

I am so fortunate, John, to have been naive when I started off trying to become a filmmaker. The power of what I didn't know helped propel me, because if I knew then what I knew now, what I know now, I wouldn't have done it, because I'm. I'm analytical, I'm intelligent, and I would have said, this is an unlikely. The aperture for success is too small. I need to find something else to do.

John Hope Bryant (30:30)

And I want to the audience, please listen to me. His degree is in engineering.

Marc Seal (30:35)

Electrical engineering. That's right.

John Hope Bryant (30:37)

Extremely specific, extremely tactile. They are very detailed, and with all due respect, they're rigid. So. So an electrical engineer is scientific, and they need to know the mapping before they start to work. So what he's saying here is a game changer for you. He did not over analyze. Otherwise he never would have even got off the mark. Continue.

Marc Seal (31:03)

You got it, you got it, you got it. And that engineering discipline is antithetical to the creative field in which I work. So when I talk about preparation, paralysis, so many of us say, okay, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna do this thing. I'm going to initiate this pivot. I'm going to start to embark on this challenge. I'm going to climb this mountain, whatever your mountain is. And they say, I got to be prepared, though, because I'm climbing a mountain. Mountain is big. And you spend all your time and all your energy preparing to climb the mountain, and you never climb the mountain. We all Know somebody like that, it's natural. Sometimes you just gotta climb the mountain. See, what happens is we go out, and it is that fear of the unknown and that fear of failure that allows us to settle into a comfort level. How many of us know folks that are like, I'm about to. They always about to. I'm about to. I'm about to, right? Next year. Next year is the year I'm going to start the business. Next year is the year I'm going to get the master's degree. Next year is the right about to. Because they feel like I'm not ready yet. I'm just not ready. That's preparation, paralysis. What you have to do is realize that you can go out and you can have the right shoes to climb that mountain. You can have the repelling gear. You got the rope, you got your backpack, you got the canteen, you know, filled with your water and your hiking hat, all that. But until you actually get up on the side of that mountain and you plan to go right, and you reach your hand up and a rock slips, and now you got to go left. You get up there, you feel the sting of the cold air on your face, right? Until you're actually there climbing the mountain, you don't know what to expect. You don't know what it's going to be like because you never climbed a mountain before. So sometimes you actually got to get out there and just start climbing the mountain in order to do that. Climbing the mountain is just like swallowing a whale one bite at a time. The first thing you have to do, and this is the second thing, so don't allow yourself to have preparation paralysis. Get out there and climb the mountain. Yeah, Perfect.

John Hope Bryant (33:24)

Become the death of the good.

Marc Seal (33:26)

That's right. That's right. The second thing that I scribe, subscribe to is the belief that when you are getting ready to do something big, right? I don't care what it is, sometimes you have to fabricate momentum. Follow me.

John Hope Bryant (33:49)

Okay.

Marc Seal (33:52)

So many times folks get stuck on that first wrong. John. When I was making my very first movie after college, I said, we're gonna raise $750,000.

John Hope Bryant (34:04)

Mm.

Marc Seal (34:04)

Not a lot of money for a movie. Let's see, back then, 750 would give us what we needed to go out and get the cameras and lights and go and shoot this movie. John, for the life of me, I could not raise. I couldn't get anywhere close to raising that money. I wasn't rich. I didn't know anybody rich, didn't know anybody in Hollywood. I was out Banging my head on doors trying to raise $750,000.

John Hope Bryant (34:26)

Right?

Marc Seal (34:27)

So I said, okay, instead of a financial goal, I'm going to set a date goal, and I'm going to say whatever I'm able to raise at the end of three months, give myself three months. Whatever I raised at the end of those three months, that's going to be the budget of the film. Guess how much I praise at the end of those three months? 755. I did not. It was 750, but it sure wasn't $750,000. I raised $75,000. That's what we were able to raise. Okay, Guess what? We shot a tiny movie for $75,000. That was the budget of the movie, okay? Very small. But we did it. We completed that movie. And it said to other people that I could do it. But you know what it did? Most importantly, it said to me that.

John Hope Bryant (35:12)

You could do it.

Marc Seal (35:13)

That I could do it. That I could do it. So many times people are going, okay, step one, complete the task. No, if the task is monumental, that's not. Step one, going back to climbing a mountain analogy, step one is buying the shoes. Just buy the shoes. Right? Right. Step two, just get the rope. Step three, don't climb them out. Drive by the mountain. Look at the mountain. You know what I mean? Do those. Because before you know it, you've accomplished five things towards your goal. Now you're telling yourself, I can do it, I can do things towards my goal. Sometimes you gotta fabricate that momentum for yourself because it's hard. Don't allow yourself to get stuck on that first rung. Yes, get going.

John Hope Bryant (35:58)

Just do it.

Marc Seal (35:59)

Something this. Do it. Give yourself an opportunity to get some momentum. That has worked well for me and.

John Hope Bryant (36:06)

Those two values work together. Because there's a famous person that I've got in the back of my mind. I won't mention their name because audience would then make a judgment. And I try not to judge people. People are where they are. But this famous person who is the child of a famous person, always wants to do things perfect. And I've tried to tell them, let all that paralysis of analysis go. Stop navel gazing like the perfect become the death of the good. Just get out there and do it. By the time you figure out what the perfect is, the opportunity is gone and the situation's completely changed.

Marc Seal (36:43)

Right.

John Hope Bryant (36:45)

You know, not only are you not perfect, I tell them, the other people out here aren't perfect. The people you're chasing aren't perfect. These folks are mediocre at best. And if you. And the devil's lazy. So if you got a hustle.

Marc Seal (36:58)

Yes.

John Hope Bryant (36:59)

You got God behind.

Marc Seal (37:00)

Yes, yes.

John Hope Bryant (37:02)

You gotta have half of us just showing up with good habits.

Marc Seal (37:05)

And remember, that is the one thing you can control. One of the other things that. One of the other tenets is what you just said. If you got hustle, you said the devil is lazy. Right? That is the one thing that you can control. There's so many things that you, you can't control in your world. You can't control what other people are going to do, how they're going to receive you, how they're going to perceive you. But you can control how hard you are working, right? So you got to put the energy into the things you can control. So many times we spend, we each have a finite amount of energy. You can't forget that, okay? None of us have limitless energy. You got a finite amount of energy. It's up to you where you decide to expend that energy. Oftentimes we're expending the energy on things we can't control. Because I am worrying, I am filling myself with anxiety about things that I cannot control, that people are doing around me. You know what you can't control? The work. Put your head down and grind. And especially in today's world, we're so consumed with letting everybody know what we're doing every step of the way. One of my mantras is it's the work you put in when nobody is watching that makes everybody pay attention later.

John Hope Bryant (38:16)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (38:17)

The work you put in when nobody's watching makes everybody pay attention later. And so you got to put your head down and grind. And don't worry about what everybody else is doing because you can't control it. You know what you can't control your work ethic. You can control how much energy and effort you're putting into whatever that goal is that you're trying to accomplish. I mean, you're gonna accomplish it right away, but you still gotta make sure that that energy that you got, that finite amount of energy, you're putting it towards something that you control.

John Hope Bryant (38:49)

Brilliant.

Ad Council Representative (38:55)

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear?

Marc Seal (39:03)

I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success.

Ad Council Representative (39:12)

Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well being@sounditouttogether.org that's sounditouttogether.org brought to you by the ad.

Nathan King (39:24)

Council and pivotal I'm Mark Seale. And I'm Nathan King.

Marc Seal (39:28)

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

Nathan King (39:33)

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli is based on my co host Mark's best selling book of the same title. And on this show we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the Godfather's birthday. From start to finish, this is really.

Marc Seal (39:45)

The first interview I've done in bed.

Nathan King (39:48)

We sift through innumerable accounts. 35 pages isn't very much, many of them conflicting.

Marc Seal (39:54)

That's nonsense.

Nathan King (39:55)

There were 60 pages and try to get to the truth of what really happened.

Marc Seal (39:58)

And they said we're finished. This is over. It's not going to work. They're getting rid of those guys.

Nathan King (40:02)

This is that Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Caan, Talia Shire and many others.

John Hope Bryant (40:13)

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

Nathan King (40:15)

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the cannoli starting February 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Tomer Cohen (40:26)

I'm Tomer Cohen, LinkedIn's chief product officer. If you're just as curious as I am about the way things are built, the insights behind what it takes to create a world renowned product, then tune in to my podcast Building one. There's so much to learn, like how Patagonia innovates with its supply chain.

Nathan King (40:44)

We had to go out to farmers and convince them it was really damn hard.

Tomer Cohen (40:50)

Or the way Adobe thinks about the first interaction somebody has with Photoshop.

Marc Seal (40:54)

I was always so fascinated by how people navigate and find their way.

Tomer Cohen (40:58)

Ever wanted to know how Nike builds emotion into the Jordan brand?

John Hope Bryant (41:02)

You have to be obsessed with the current state of the human condition and.

Tomer Cohen (41:06)

It doesn't stop there. What about how glean reinvented knowledge? Search with AI. You can learn about how a Michelin star chef is redesigning seeds for flavor and how Pixar is nurturing a creative culture.

Nathan King (41:18)

Listen to Building One on the iHeartRadio app, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Seaman (41:26)

Did you know that companies hire the most in the first two months of the year? Or that nearly half of workers are worried about being left behind? I am Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development, and my show Get Hired brings you all the Information you need to, well, get hired.

Marc Seal (41:43)

People are forming opinions of you even before you log into the zoom or walk into the room. And so you really have to think about what is it I want to display.

Tomer Cohen (41:51)

You don't plant a garden and then just walk away and expect it to thrive. You are in there pulling out the weeds. You're pruning it, you're watering it.

Marc Seal (41:58)

It's the same with your network.

Tomer Cohen (42:00)

You should always be in there actively managing your network.

Andrew Seaman (42:03)

If you don't feel confident to say.

Marc Seal (42:04)

A number, even admitting that to a.

Andrew Seaman (42:06)

Recruiter is going to be far better than saying, well, what is your budget for the role?

Marc Seal (42:09)

A lot is in the follow up, right? Don't wait to follow up.

Andrew Seaman (42:13)

Whether you're a new grad, an established professional, or contemplating a career change, get hired is for you. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you like to listen.

Nathan King (42:25)

Listen.

John Hope Bryant (42:30)

I think you're making is, this is an old Southern saying, put it where the goats can get it. You're, you're saying that allow people to approach success. You're, you're putting it within reach, which is what I like to do with all of my work. Don't use 20 words when two will do. People already feel bad. They already feel depressed and distressed and worn out. They don't need us to help them by making something unattainable. So you've made success attainable. Now this show is money and wealth. Before I pivot to some practical questions in the book, I want to give some folks here a bit of a cheat sheet. I've talked about some real estate, real estate deals. I've done some that did well, some that were a bust. I talked about business deals. I talked about building brands. At some point I'm going to walk through how to build a global nonprofit and all this stuff. I try to, to show people how they can build wealth and not just give them a bunch of happy talk. Is there an example you can give Will in your personal life good news or bad? Some cheats you can have that you can give folks about some insight into the music, the entertainment business, which actually is music also, by the way, because you got, you've got soundtracks and things like that that come out of the movies and the TV shows. But it's like, is publishing the, the, the, the golden goose or what is, is it being, is it not being? Everybody wants to be on stage. Everybody wants to start. They want, they want to lock the mic. I keep telling them, own the Damn mic. Right?

Marc Seal (44:02)

Yeah.

John Hope Bryant (44:02)

Right?

Marc Seal (44:03)

Yes.

John Hope Bryant (44:04)

What is the aha that Will Packer can present to this audience? That is not told or understood about how to make money and. Or build wealth in Hollywood?

Marc Seal (44:15)

Okay? So it is. It is understood, but it is misconstrued. It is about your personal brand. Okay? We live in an environment where there's an over saturation of content, all right? There's more content out there than ever before. There's more platforms. Everybody is now, you know, got. Got this device where you can go and you can create your own content, right? Everybody's a star. Everybody's got a. Got a social media platform. Hollywood, the music industry, media companies at large are all trying to find brands that have an authentic connection to audiences. Because they don't. They need you. You are the conduit to get to those audiences. Here's where people mess up and misstep. You think that you need the support of a major media brand in order to reach those consumers, and you really don't. Especially now, right now, because Everybody's got a YouTube channel and everybody's got Instagram, everybody's got TikTok. You got to have scale. You have to be able to build a brand that has not just hundreds, not just thousands. You got to have millions of folks that are subscribing to whatever it is that you are pitching, selling, and present, right? So what I say to people is, you make money without Hollywood, that's when Hollywood will come knocking. You make money without the music industry, that's when the music industry will come knocking. So what you should focus on is what is the thing that you have that connects authentically with audiences, right?

John Hope Bryant (45:51)

Don't worry.

Marc Seal (45:52)

Don't spend that time trying to knock on a Hollywood door. I literally could not get a return call from Hollywood until I had independently distributed my own film on my own. I drove from city to city to city, right? I literally. I remember I went from Atlanta to Jackson, Mississippi, to Birmingham, Alabama, to Charlotte, North Carolina, to Greensboro, North Carolina, to Memphis, Tennessee, to Nashville, Tennessee. I can keep going. I remember because I drove every one of my state in little Motel 6 or Super 8, whatever I could afford in every market. That was my version. Absolute hustle. That was my version of building my brand at that time with my early movie project. You may not have to do that right now because you can hit send, you can hit post, but everybody can hit send, everybody can post. So you got to do something that stands out. Focus your time and energy on building that personal brand. That is where you can derive wealth from within the media landscape. Everybody's trying to knock on the door to major media companies to say, yeah, but I just need to. I need a bigger platform. I need to be in theaters, I need to be on streaming. No, what you need is a brand that is valuable enough so that the folks that have those platforms say, come on over here, let me use your platform and your connection to an audience to help enrich my platform that I've invested all this money in over here. And I need you in order to help sustain my platform. So spend that energy honing whatever that is, that voice. And I'm not telling everybody to go out and be an influencer because that's. These days that's like, you know, being an NBA. You know what I mean? I'm not saying that, but they're going to be folks that need to manage those influencers. They're going to be folks that need to help facilitate what they're doing with their money. Right. Because these folks are very focused on being in front of camera. I've never been in front of the camera person. I've been very successful because I have been good at going out and finding Kevin Hart when he was finally ready to break out and give him his first movie. Right? Breakout movie.

John Hope Bryant (47:48)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (47:49)

Idris Elba. Idris's first movie after the Wire was my movie. Tiffany Haddish or breakout role in Girls Trip. That is what I have been able to do. So that. Absolutely. And that's what you need, right? It's just, just like you mentioned the Atlanta Falcons and the ownership. It's not just about who can run the fastest or jump the highest, is not just success on the field. There are levels to this, Right? That is what you talk about, John. So understand because there are levels to this. I had been fortunate enough to work hard, build my own personal brand to the point when Arthur Blank, the majority owner of the Falcons, was looking for people to bring into his inner circle. My name rang out. I made that cut, right? So now I am in sports without my, my jump shot ain't nothing. I tell you that right now. I ain't getting up there, especially these 50 year old knees. It ain't happening, brother. I'm not racing anybody. But I am now in sports. So there's other opportunities to do it. So I'm not saying you have to just be in front of the camera. The aspects around the folks that are. Do you know people who are talented, know how to do it? And you go in and say, I'm going to manage you. I'M going to help you before we go to Hollywood. I'm going to help you go from a thousand subscribers to 10,000 subscribers to a million subscribers. Then we'll go and see who's interested in talking to us.

John Hope Bryant (48:59)

Yeah. And, and all these folks think about in every city, they need some place to go and record their content. Maybe there's a, a little, a little shop people can open and, and produce podcasts and, and, and create the settings for them to come in. And, and, you know, in China and Asia, this is very big to go into shared spaces to record content. You can, the equipment is very expensive. Somebody could be renting that equipment to influencers and, and, and, and managing platforms. So you're getting people to think outside the box and not just to be seen by the box, as in rocking the mic, being in front of reading the script, maybe write the script, maybe some of the paper that scripts are on.

Marc Seal (49:43)

How about that? Yeah. Yeah.

John Hope Bryant (49:45)

Owner of yourself. It's interesting. What you said resonates with me. It hit me like a tie in the bricks when you're talking about bring value to value. So 2 + 2 equals 6, 8, or 10. Bring value to value so they see that you're better together. In banking, the joke is the bank will lend you money when you prove you don't need it. Yep, it's a joke, but it's serious.

Marc Seal (50:11)

Yep.

John Hope Bryant (50:11)

And those who are you go far enough up the economic stratosphere, you stop signing personal guarantees and they give you what's called, you know, basically unsecured debt. And I've signed $100 million deal that I don't have a guarantee on, but when I sign a $60,000 line of credit, I personally guarantee that. So your analogy works in every example that when you bring value to a situation that people want to be associated with, those who have value, they bring to the association versus somebody coming, begging, and saying, will you hook me up? You just sound like.

Marc Seal (50:49)

Correct.

John Hope Bryant (50:50)

So life is about selling. We just talked about selling without selling. That's the example we just gave. You're presenting yourself. You're not selling yourself. But in your book, Healthy Arrogance, how does the approach you have with this book help people make the sale?

Marc Seal (51:13)

First, by realizing what you just said, that everything is sales. Okay? So when you say, who better than you? It's also, who better than you to sell yourself?

John Hope Bryant (51:22)

Okay.

Marc Seal (51:23)

Realize, no matter what, from the time you were born to the time you die, you are selling yourself. You're selling yourself. You're selling your van, your brand, you're Getting other people to recognize a particular and assign a particular value to you, right? This person is important. I need to go talk to them, I need to answer their calls, I need to pick up, you know, respond to their text. I need to invest in them. Could be various levels of value, but you're doing that from day one. That's important because especially now, a lot of Gen Z will say, you know what, I haven't found my passion yet. I'm not into this thing. I don't want to work at this particular job. I haven't found the thing that's going to really kind of ignite my, my spirit, you know, awaken internal voice in me that says, I wake up every day and I go do this. I don't subscribe to the belief that, you know, you find a thing you love and then you never work another day in your life. That's not how things work in my opinion. What you do is you go out number one. If you're doing it, you're putting your name on it, you're busting your ass, you work hard, I don't care. Like I, I before the movie stuff was, was happening, I was delivering newspapers for the Atlanta Journal Constitution. I was answering phones on the weekend for Clorox. I was selling newspapers door to door. Like I was working hard. It wasn't something I was passionate about, but my name was on it. So I was building my brand. Every time. If your name is on it, you got to work hard and give it 110% period. Have some pride in your name. It's all you have at the end of the day, that is your personal brand. That is what you have is the most valuable thing that you own is your brand, right? So you gotta work hard no matter what it is. Don't wait to find the thing that you are passionate about. Work hard today. Whatever you put, your name is on it. If your name is on it, 110 period. If you don't put respect on it, nobody else is, Nobody else is going.

John Hope Bryant (53:17)

To put respect, Instagram, post people. He's not talking about tick tock, LinkedIn, Facebook threads. He's not talking about YouTube. He's talking about wherever you show up, whatever you do.

Marc Seal (53:29)

Correct. I'm talking about going when you got the part time job at, you know, CVS or Ralph or Kroger or wherever it is, whatever that's doing, you be the best at it. When I first graduated from college, when I graduated from Florida A and M University, I was, I was student Supreme Court Justice. I Had made a little student film. You know, I was. I was a big time alpha on campus. I was a dj. And then I went and I got an opportunity to intern under the Hutland brothers on a movie they were shooting in Jacksonville, Florida. I immediately, immediately went from being big man on campus to being the lowest on the totem pole. Immediately. My job was to unwrangle the cables, make sure the cable cords never got twisted. So I was running around set all day untangling cable cords. And then I was also getting people coffee and tea and whatever they wanted on set, right? Everybody told me what to do. I was the lowest of the low, But I also busted my ass. And I was the hardest working intern on that set because my name was on it. I was building my blade. I didn't want to do that. I don't want to unwrangle cables for the rest of my life. But at the time, that. That was my job to do it. Guess what? I was gonna be the best damn cable wrangler you ever saw. And that's what I did. And that was my mentality. And some people on that set treated me like I was just a young brother that was chasing my dream, trying to come up and do something. And they would encourage me.

John Hope Bryant (54:51)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (54:51)

Other people on that same movie set would treat me like I was the lowest of the low and in the way and would yell at me and, you know, say mean things and all of that. Almost. To a man, John. To a man or woman. Since that time and I've had the success I've had in this business, almost every person on that set has asked me for a job. And I remember. I remember those that treated me with respect. I remember those that treated me like I was the lowest of the low. So you just never know. But the point is, you're building your brand, so you're putting your name on it. You go hard. There's no excuse, right? So if you work and you continue to stack those bricks, right, one by one, no matter what it is, whether you found your passion or not, you continue to stack your bricks because you're putting your name on it. That is selling. That is building your brand. Everything is selling. I'll never forget, I graduated from college and I told my dad, you know, I didn't. I didn't. I had an engineering degree. I forewent going into corporate America because I wanted to chase this film dream. And I had this opportunity to be selling Atlanta Journal Constitution newspapers door to door. And I said, dad, I don't want to do sales. Sales sound like people that's flying across the country selling copy machines to people that don't need copy machines. And my dad said, it stuck with me. He said, son, everything is sales. That's everything. He said, world leaders are selling themselves all the time. They're selling their agendas, they're selling to their constituents, they're selling them to the, to the governmental bodies. They're always selling. Everything is sales, he said, and you're good at it. You're good at it. So lean into what you're good at, go out there and until you're able to make this Hollywood dream come true, do this so that you can feed yourself. And I used to go out there and I knock on people's doors and try not to get shot in the face. And I would offer them an amazing deal on a on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday version of the Atlanta Journal Constitution newspaper. That's what it took.

Ad Council Representative (56:48)

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear?

Marc Seal (56:55)

I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and leave me towards success.

Ad Council Representative (57:04)

Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well being. @soundedout together.org that's sounded out together.org brought to you by the ad council and.

John Hope Bryant (57:17)

Pivotal I'm Mark Seal.

Nathan King (57:19)

And I'm Nathan King.

Marc Seal (57:20)

This is Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

Nathan King (57:26)

Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli is based on my co host Marks best selling book of the same title. And on this show we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the Godfather's birth. From start to finish.

Marc Seal (57:37)

This is really the first interview I've done in bed.

Nathan King (57:41)

We sift through innumerable accounts.

Marc Seal (57:43)

35 pages isn't very much.

Nathan King (57:45)

Many of them conflicting.

Marc Seal (57:46)

That's nonsense.

Nathan King (57:47)

There were 60 pages and try to get to the truth of what really happened.

Marc Seal (57:51)

And they said we're finished, this is over. Not only is not going to work the d get rid of those Leave.

Nathan King (57:56)

The Gun Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Kahn, Talia Shire and many others.

John Hope Bryant (58:05)

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

Nathan King (58:08)

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun Take the cannoli starting February 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Tomer Cohen (58:19)

I'm Tomer Coyne, LinkedIn's chief product officer. If you're just as curious as I am about the way things are built, the insights behind what it takes to create a world renowned product, then tune in to my podcast, Building One. There's so much to learn, like how Patagonia innovates with its supply chain.

Nathan King (58:36)

We had to go out to farmers and convince them it was really damn hard.

Tomer Cohen (58:42)

Or the way Adobe thinks about the first interaction somebody has with Photoshop.

Marc Seal (58:46)

I was always so fascinated by how people navigate and find their way.

Tomer Cohen (58:50)

Ever wanted to know how Nike builds emotion into the Jordan brand?

John Hope Bryant (58:54)

You have to be obsessed with the current state of the human condition and.

Tomer Cohen (58:58)

It doesn't stop there. What about how Glean reinvented knowledge? Search with AI you can learn about how Michelin Star Chef is redesigning seeds for flavor and how Pixar is nurturing a creative culture.

Nathan King (59:10)

Listen to Building One on the iHeartRadio app, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Seaman (59:19)

Did you know that companies hire the most in the first two months of the year? Or that nearly half of workers are worried about being left behind? I am Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development, and my show Get Hired brings you all the information you need to, well, get hired.

Marc Seal (59:35)

People are forming opinions of you even before you log into the zoom or walk into the room. And so you really have to think.

Tomer Cohen (59:42)

About what is it I want to display? You don't plant a garden and then.

Marc Seal (59:45)

Just walk away and expect it to thrive.

Tomer Cohen (59:47)

You are in there pulling out the weeds. You're pruning it, you're watering it.

Marc Seal (59:51)

It's the same thing with your network.

Tomer Cohen (59:52)

You should always be in there actively managing your network.

Marc Seal (59:55)

If you don't feel confident to say a number, even admitting that to a.

Andrew Seaman (59:58)

Recruiter is going to be far better than saying, well, what is your budget for the role?

Marc Seal (60:02)

A lot is in the follow up, right? Don't wait to follow up.

Andrew Seaman (60:06)

Whether you're a new grad, an established professional, or contemplating a career change, Get Hired is for you. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you like to listen.

John Hope Bryant (60:23)

You know, for a book that has the word arrogance in it, there's a lot of humility in this message and it's really quite inspiring actually. And I think you may be reintroducing for people a new understanding of things that they might have previously thought they understood. Like I will tell people, people say, oh, capitalism is bad. No no, people are bad. Right. There's good capitalism and there's bad capitalism. Right. And good capitalism is where I benefit, you benefit more and bad is where I benefit. You pay a price for it. And you're saying there's healthy arrogance and there's toxic arrogance. There's healthy self esteem, healthy self confidence which allows you to become the product. That's what I'm hearing you say.

Marc Seal (61:09)

Yes.

John Hope Bryant (61:10)

Deliver yourself with confidence to the marketplace, finds value in you. Yes, you've been the first in many sectors which is both good news and bad news because you had to be pioneering. How has that felt? How did you do it and how did you manage? Difficult people, arrogant, truly toxic and arrogant people. How did you manage around that and still succeed? Because that's going to be something that's A lot of black people are emotional. We get arrogant. I'm sorry, not arrogant. We get emotional, we get angry. And whenever you make an emotional decision, it's going to be a bad one. And so how did you with. You got the confidence now, you got the self esteem, you got all that stuff, but now somebody's just delivered some crap and put it right on your lap, theoretically. And you got to manage around that. How did you step over mess and not in it?

Marc Seal (62:04)

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with being passionate in business. But you can't let passion rule your business decisions. And you are right, John, it is a cultural thing. Black folks are passionate people. You know, mamas was passionate, daddy's passionate, grandma was passionate. You come in the house, auntie was dancing and yelling and screaming at the tv and it was just, you know, for no real reason other than just was happy in the moment, you know what I mean? You know, Soul Train was on, whatever it might be. But we grew up a lot of us in homes that were very passionate. Right. Passionate with a lot of energy. And many of us learned that and it gets ingrained in us and it holds us back when it comes to business.

John Hope Bryant (62:47)

Okay.

Marc Seal (62:48)

At the end of the day, Hollywood is one of the most adversarial, toxic, loud yelling in your face industries out there. I have a practice that I call taking the thunder out. When I am in an adversarial situation. Oftentimes I'm going against somebody, they yelling, the other person's yelling, I might be yelling, everybody's yelling. Right. Nobody is accomplishing anything. As a producer, my job is not to win arguments and win fights. My job is to keep my eye on the main thing which is getting the project done. My secret to that is take the Thunder out. So the first thing I do, I tell a story in my book about a movie that I made. And it was called Takers. And Takers was about a heist group, good looking guys that all dressed up. It had Idris Elba, Paul Walker, God bless him, TI was in it. Matt Dillon, Michael Ely, Hayden Christensen. Oh, yeah, great, great, great cast. And the first day on set, this movie almost didn't happen because you look at the movie takers, all the guys, they got on suits and ties and they wear pocket squares and everybody is very well dressed. Because part of our thesis was that even though it was an action movie, a heist movie, we want to also get young women. And we had all these good looking guys, you know, Paul Walker and Idris Elder and Hayden Christensen and Michael Ely. Come on. Right, Chris Brown, right. So we want these good looking guys to be dressed to the nines. And Paul Walker showed up the first day on set, God bless him. And Paul Walker, something of hippie. And he showed up and he had his hair long and he had on his ripped jeans and. And that's fine because listen, let me tell you people, actors on a movie set, they show up looking all kinds of crazy before y'all see them, trust me, before I have my whole team get their hands on them, they. You would not recognize some of your favorite stars, right? So Paul showed up, you know, dingy jeans, long hair, you know, scruffy. The problem was that Paul wanted that to be his look for the film. He did not want to change. He said, this is my best look. And the head of the studio was there because it was day one. And the head of studio immediately tore into him. It's not. We talked about, we talked about this and we had a plan and you're gonna mess it up and you can't look like that. Get in there, they gotta cut your hair. They got. And Paul, who was an easy, soft spoken guy, he stood his ground. He said, no, I'm not doing that. He said, I'm not doing that. That's not the look. I don't like that. And they were going at it. So here I am, day one of takers. I got my studio head, one of my major stars, they're arguing right outside the hair and makeup trailer. The rest of the actors are on set with my director and my directors calling me, saying, will, what do you want me to do? I'm supposed to shoot this thing and.

John Hope Bryant (65:52)

How big is the budget? I said, how much money is on the line?

Marc Seal (65:56)

Takers was about a between 25, 30 million dollars.

John Hope Bryant (66:01)

So it's a big deal.

Marc Seal (66:02)

Yeah, yeah. Especially for me at that time. Yes. So moderately priced for Hollywood, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't cheap by any. Right around 30, actually, now I think.

John Hope Bryant (66:12)

About it, you had to succeed. It had to work.

Marc Seal (66:14)

Had to succeed. Had to work. And in Hollywood, like a lot of places, time is money. So I told the director, I said, hey, shoot the first scene without Paul. I said, don't make it a big deal. Right. Because I didn't want to have a full revolt on my set with my other actors, because quite honestly, many of them felt like that they really weren't that comfortable with the suit and tie. Look, I had had a behind the scenes argument with Idris Elba, but I had Hamlet behind the scenes. And so Idris had agreed, all right, I'll wear it. I'll wear a suit. I'll be clean shaven. He agreed to do it. But I knew if word got out that Paul was fighting back, everybody's gonna fight back, right? So I said the director's name was John. I said, john, go shoot the first scene. Don't make it seem like Paul was ever supposed to be in it. Continue. As if by this time, Paul Walker had left the trailer and gone to his own personal trailer because he was about to find the next flight to Hawaii. He was like, I'm out of here. I'm not doing the movie. He was quitting. I walk in the trailer and I knock on the door. I can hear the gruff, yeah, yeah, what do you want? I come in and the first thing I did was I apologize. I said, paul, I am so sorry. I said, you are here. This is your first day on a Will Packer set. You are clearly very unhappy. Something has been miscommunicated. You thought one thing, the studio thought something else. And now you are here in an uncomfortable, untenable situation. And I take full responsibility that because this is my production, I am sorry. I took. Because he was ready. He was ready for somebody to come in and tell him how I was wrong and how the emails have been exchanged and all that. I came in and immediately said, I gave him somebody to blame for it. I said, I'm sorry. Blame me.

John Hope Bryant (67:58)

Yeah.

Marc Seal (67:58)

And I. And I meant it. Right? You got to be real. Don't be superficial with it. Right? But in that moment, it was not about me saying, well, Paul, we told you what it's gonna look like. And it wasn't about me saying, well, studio head, you should have made sure that Paul Knew. And it wasn't about that. What was we trying to get done? What were we trying to get done? So I walked in and immediately said, this is on me. I said, if you stay with us in this production, I will work every day to make sure that you do not feel like this again. Because on a Will Packer production, you should be able to concentrate on what you're doing. You should not be asked to be emotional about anything. And he took there. He breathed a second. He said. He said, I get it. He said, you. You the good cop. He said, but you're a damn good one. He said, I'm gonna do it.

John Hope Bryant (68:39)

Really?

Marc Seal (68:39)

Do the movie. Yep. He said, just give me a second. But what I did in that moment was I took the thunder out of the situation. And so, so many times, like you said, John, we're trying to win the battle. We over here trying to win the battle. Somebody said something about me on social media. Somebody looked at me the wrong way. Somebody did something that was disrespectful. You're trying to win a battle. Let me respond. I know exactly what I'm gonna say. I know how I'm gonna get my revenge. I'm gonna know what my retort is going to be. You're so focused on winning the battle, and there's a war going on. Business is a war. Business is macro. Business is big picture.

John Hope Bryant (69:11)

That's right.

Marc Seal (69:12)

We get too caught up in the minutia. Take the thunder out. Once somebody. Everybody's ready to tell you how you're wrong and they're right. Every. Especially when you got a disagreement. Everybody's got their. All this stuff. I can't wait till John comes in here. I'm ready. I'm ready for him. I got a whole list of things because John know he messed up. And I'm ready to do all this. I'm ready to tell him. And if John walks in and says, you know what? I apologize my part in this. Because everybody has a part. It's never one way.

John Hope Bryant (69:41)

Yeah, I'm part.

Marc Seal (69:42)

I apologize. Because my part in this helped to exacerbate this situation.

John Hope Bryant (69:45)

Yeah, I'm wrong.

Marc Seal (69:47)

And you start off like that. They got this whole list of things that was ready to run down. Wait, what? You said. You said you were wrong. What? But wait a minute. I was waiting for you to. I'm ready for you to argue with me because I got retorts. I got stuff to come back with. No, no, I apologize. I apologize. How can we move forward. Take that thunder out. Take it out because you keep your eye on the bigger prize. I've learned that that has served me well multiple, multiple times in Hollywood and it will serve you right in whatever industry because we all fall victim to that moment where we get so hot, so angry and focused on the battle and we lose in the war.

John Hope Bryant (70:27)

So I owe you an apology. I was focusing the wrong side part of this book. I was so thrown off and that was so provocative, focused about the art of healthy arrogance and dreaming big, that I thought that that was really the part that we needed to unpack. And now I understand. No, no, no. Who better than you?

Marc Seal (70:47)

Who better than you? That's right.

John Hope Bryant (70:50)

That's the subtitle. Who better? Again, this is what we tend to focus on. The noise. I was.

Nathan King (70:54)

I was.

Marc Seal (70:55)

Oh, my.

John Hope Bryant (70:55)

Healthy, arrogant. No, no, no, no. That's the side show.

Marc Seal (70:58)

Who better you to lead?

John Hope Bryant (71:00)

Who better than you to be a father? Who better than you to be a mother? Who better than you to be excellent? Who better than you to be God's child? Who better than you to show up and show out in the most positive way? So.

Marc Seal (71:10)

That's right.

John Hope Bryant (71:11)

Talk about this. But he just. In this example. And you guys need to rewind this. Show it. Share. Share it with your weekly girls meeting. Show it. Show. Get your boys in the sidewalk and listen to this life lesson. Because what he just described is how I live my life. Talk without being offensive, listen without being defensive. And always leave even your adversary with their dignity because if you don't, they'll spend the rest of their life working to make you miserable. It becomes personal. You got to step over mess and not in it. And that's essentially what he just told you in this story. He had every right to be offended. He has 25 men on the line. 30 men on the line. Is he his name on the door? Everybody had an agreement in advance. They read the contract. And it's like being married. You got to decide whether you want to be married or you want to. You want to be. Right?

Marc Seal (72:02)

Yeah.

John Hope Bryant (72:03)

Those are two different things.

Marc Seal (72:04)

Right, Right.

John Hope Bryant (72:05)

And so the wisdom and maturity of who better than you?

Marc Seal (72:10)

Is.

John Hope Bryant (72:10)

He's giving you a life lesson. He's given you 30 years in business, 40 something years on this planet. He now owns an island in the Caribbean. He's. He's a part owner in a. In a professional football team. He's got nine NAACP Image Awards. He's got all this success to his credit. Billion dollars in, in ticket sales. But what he's telling you is it's some really basic Stuff. And if you do this, it's a cheat sheet for success.

Marc Seal (72:40)

That's right.

John Hope Bryant (72:42)

So in addition to. I want them to go buy the book. I do. But what do you want to leave this audience with? Will, they had a chance now to get inside your heart, in your head, and your office life and your experiences for a minute. They've had an hour with you.

Marc Seal (72:55)

Yeah.

John Hope Bryant (72:55)

What's the one thing is your. Your favorite niece or your favorite nephew or the. The knucklehead nephew you've been trying to talk to for 20 years wouldn't listen to you? They leaving your house, they came to visit, they're leaving you out, they're walking away. You won't see them again or at least for a long time. You want to leave them with a nugget that they can hold on to, that they can hopefully, in time, begin to appreciate. What's that thing or things that you'd like to leave the audience with? That's a Will Packer special.

Marc Seal (73:25)

Remember that no one, no one on this planet is more deserving of success than you are. And once you realize that and you own that in your heart and your soul, you will start to act accordingly. There's no one on this planet more deserving of success than you. That's what I would leave them with.

John Hope Bryant (73:50)

And I agree with that. And as a final thought, on a show that's about money and wealth.

Marc Seal (73:56)

Yep.

John Hope Bryant (73:56)

We didn't talk about your net worth. We didn't talk about income. We didn't talk about what actors get paid. We don't get. We didn't. We didn't cover any financial stuff. But I believe we talked about wealth building from the end.

Marc Seal (74:10)

No question.

John Hope Bryant (74:11)

So what I'm about to say, am I wrong about that or do you think that. I mean, I don't focus on money. It comes by focusing on purpose, passion, executing, delivering, giving, keeping my word, being that brand, showing up, you know, showing up and showing out being excellent. The money, the investors that it attracts. Capital.

Marc Seal (74:31)

Yes.

John Hope Bryant (74:32)

Is that the way? Am I going to have that right?

Marc Seal (74:34)

Does that work A hundred percent? Because everything we've talked about is wealth building. We get too focused as a community at large, we get too focused on trying to chase money. And I know this is money and wealth, but I want to focus on the wealth part because the money will come. Everything we've talked about, these things that manifest themselves in ways that allow you to become more successful and live a more fulfilled life, that's wealth. I have been blessed beyond my dreams in terms of material success. What I'm very, very happy and proud of and what sustains me is the wealth that I have that is inclusive of not just the material success, but also balancing that with my family, my mental health and my well being. I'm a happy person. Yeah, listen, I get it. It's hard to be happy when you're broke. It's hard to be happy when your stomach is rubbing. I get it. Like I'm, I'm not somebody that says, no, no, don't worry about it, just be happy. No, don't worry, be happy. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is when you're going out and you're realizing the value that you have within yourself and you're acting accordingly, number one, place that value on yourself and don't give that power to anybody else. The wealth that you will accumulate, successful people, attract successful people.

John Hope Bryant (75:57)

That's right.

Marc Seal (75:57)

The wealth that you will accumulate will surprise even you because you will be out there building your brand and you will be presenting to the world just like them. John told you the banks, right? They give money to people who don't need it. Trust me, I know that is the truth. And that is, that's just, that's what it is. I just, I was telling, I, I got a, I was telling my kids the other day because I have some really big retail sponsored brands that send me stuff because they want me to wear it or they want me to put in movies and what have you. And they'll, they'll call me, they'll be like, hey, you get any more shoes from so and so? You got any more hoodies? I said, listen, they sending that to me. Y'all stop trying to, trying to leech off of my, my gifts that I'm getting. But I said, how ironic is it because I could buy any one of these things. There are people that can't buy them, but the people that get it for free are those that could. That is the point of it. The way that manifests itself in your life is the fact that you got to understand, continue to work on being successful and other successful people will come, money will come, and wealth will come. We have absolutely spent this last hour talking about wealth building because we've talked about the traits and we talked about the skill set and the mentality that you have to have to be successful.

John Hope Bryant (77:10)

That's right.

Marc Seal (77:11)

That is literally what wealth building is.

John Hope Bryant (77:14)

So if you see Will I on the street and you walk up to us, I got a script I got to do and you're selling A product. You're transactional. You're going to turn this off.

Marc Seal (77:27)

Yeah.

John Hope Bryant (77:28)

But you come and you present yourself and we feel your authenticity.

Marc Seal (77:33)

There you go.

John Hope Bryant (77:34)

And you're not selling a product. You're not trying. You're not. You're trying to build a relationship and a rapport in 45 seconds and you impress us. 45 seconds may turn into four or five minutes, and four or five minutes might turn into, here's my number or here's my email address. And then follow up and send a note. Don't ask for anything. Hey, thank you for your time. Even if you.

Marc Seal (77:54)

Even.

John Hope Bryant (77:54)

By the way, no one ever does this. You meet me in an airport. Whatever. You meet him in the airport. Just send a note. It was really nice to meet you. A handwritten note. Really nice to meet you. Honored. Respect. What you. Your flow. Appreciate you. You know, your wife, you know, Heather Packer is beautiful. You know, behind every successful man is an exhausted woman. She's beautiful. And I would love to have 15 minutes with you at some point, just to listen.

Marc Seal (78:17)

Yep.

John Hope Bryant (78:18)

And then wait three months, wait six months, and then say, I'm coming to LA. I'd love to have 15 minutes if you have time. There's no way he wouldn't give you 15 minutes. There's no way I wouldn't give you. But you got to handle it the right way. That's building, making money. Getting that cash, getting that dollar is highly overrated. That's what we obsess with. So he has gave you a master class in relationship capital. And I'm going to drop the mic. I'm going to say what Will won't say because he's got kids at home who are listening to this. The kids are like, give me that. Those Nike shoes. Give me that. So Shaq, Shaq was. Recently, Shaq's kids were like, hey, dad, why are we working so hard? We rich. Like, no, no, we ain't rich. I'm rich.

Marc Seal (79:01)

I'm rich. You ain't.

John Hope Bryant (79:02)

You better go to work.

Marc Seal (79:04)

You better believe it.

John Hope Bryant (79:06)

This book I want you to go purchase. Who better than you? The art of Healthy Arrogance and dreaming Big. Take a little bit of Will Packer. Wherever you go. It'll make you better.

Marc Seal (79:20)

Thank you, my friend. My friend and my brother, I appreciate you.

John Hope Bryant (79:24)

Love and light. This is John O'Brien, money and wealth with the great Will Packer. Go become your best version of yourself. It pays dividends. I'm out. Money and wealth with John O'Brien is a production of the Black Effect podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Ad Council Representative (81:32)

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear?

Marc Seal (81:39)

I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success.

Ad Council Representative (81:48)

Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well being@soundedout together.org that's sounditouttogether.org brought to you by the ad council and pivotal I'm Mark Seal.

Nathan King (82:03)

And I'm Nathan King.

Marc Seal (82:04)

This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

Nathan King (82:09)

This podcast is based on my co host Mark Seal's best selling book of the same title that features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Kahn, Talia Shire and many others.

John Hope Bryant (82:21)

Yes, that was a real horse's head.

Nathan King (82:23)

Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the cannoli starting February 19th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Tomer Cohen (82:33)

I'm Tomer Cohen, LinkedIn's chief product officer. If you're just as curious as I am about the way things are built, then tune in to my podcast Building One. I speak with some of the best product builders out there.

Marc Seal (82:45)

I've always been inspired by frustration. It came back to my own personal.

Nathan King (82:49)

Pain point, so we had to go out to farmers and convince them.

Marc Seal (82:53)

Following that curiosity is a superpower.

John Hope Bryant (82:55)

You have to be obsessed with the human condition.

Nathan King (82:58)

Listen to Building One on the iHeartRadio app, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Andrew Seaman (83:03)

Did you know that 70% of people get hired at companies where they already have a connection? I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development, and on my podcast Get Hired, I bring you all the information you need to, well, get Hired. Landing a job may be tough, but Get Hired is here for you every step of the way with advice on resumes, networking, negotiation and so much more. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you like to listen.