The Path to Homeownership

Summary

Money And Wealth With John Hope Bryant

Episode: The Path to Homeownership

Date: January 1, 2026
Host: John Hope Bryant (with guest host Lester Watt and special guest Leanne Brown)

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Overview

This episode of Money And Wealth with John Hope Bryant focuses on “The Path to Homeownership,” particularly within the Black community. Bryant underscores homeownership as the leading avenue to building personal and generational wealth, highlighting both systemic barriers and practical steps to overcome them. The show features an in-depth conversation with Leanne Brown, a Memphis resident who successfully purchased her first home with the guidance of Operation Hope and coach Lester Watt. The episode shines a light on the transformative role financial literacy plays in breaking cycles of poverty and building dignity-rich generational legacies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Homeownership as a Wealth-Building Pathway

[02:48–09:43]

• Bryant discusses his personal journey and the broader concept of “Silver Rights,” the idea that financial literacy and homeownership are essential civil rights issues for the modern era.
• He emphasizes that 75% of white Americans own homes, compared to less than 44% of Black Americans, despite tax and financial policies heavily favoring homeowners.
• Homeownership is described not just as acquiring property, but as the most accessible path to significant wealth accumulation and generational advancement:
  • “You make money during the day, you build wealth in your sleep.” — John Hope Bryant [06:37]
• Bryant cautions against financial mistakes with subprime or adjustable-rate mortgages, referencing the lessons of the 2008 mortgage crisis.

2. Introducing The Real-Life Success Story

[13:17–14:08]

• John presents Leanne Brown as an Operation Hope success story, someone who transitioned from “stuck” to empowered homeowner.
• Financial coaches at Operation Hope are described as “private bankers for the working class and working middle class,” providing support in over 1,500 offices.

3. Leanne Brown’s Journey: Breaking Cycles

[16:44–20:40]

• Leanne, originally from South Memphis, describes a childhood where financial literacy wasn’t discussed, leading to costly adult mistakes.
• Her turning point was when a banker recognized her lack of credit understanding and referred her to Operation Hope:
  • “Your credit is your resume.” — Leanne Brown [17:40]
• Leanne shares that while she’d saved enough for a down payment, she learned quickly that without strong credit, financial doors remained closed.

4. Overcoming Credit Barriers and Building Habits

[26:54–28:53]

• Leanne provides real-life examples of mismanaging credit cards and overspending in her youth, reinforcing how easily poor credit becomes a cycle.
  • “Don’t buy a $500 purse if you only got $20... I’d rather have a $20 purse with two thousand in the bank.” — Leanne Brown [27:43]
• Lester highlights the budgeting education clients go through, emphasizing accountability and lifestyle changes like cutting back on “wants” (eating out, Starbucks) to save.

5. The Transformation: Rising Credit, Homeownership, and New Mindset

[33:29–35:56]

• When Leanne started, she had savings but a credit score in the mid-500s. With Operation Hope’s help, she increased her score by 121 points, reaching nearly 700 by closing.
  • “The fact that she was able to save thousands of dollars for a down payment is something that should be absolutely commended.” — John Hope Bryant [33:04]
• Lester’s post-purchase protocol includes re-budgeting two months after closing to account for new utilities and expenses, helping clients stay on track to build further savings.

6. The Ripple Effect: Generational Legacy

[35:56–37:17]

• Leanne is already passing her financial knowledge to her children and promises to break the cycle of generational ignorance around money.
• Lester notes the ongoing relationship between Operation Hope coaches and their clients, which often extends past the purchase to continual support and referrals.

7. Renting vs. Owning: Letting the Numbers Speak

[43:01–49:43]

• Concrete comparisons are presented: rental payments frequently exceed mortgage payments for the same-sized properties, especially as rents rise yearly.
• Lester and Bryant stress that by boosting your credit, you can secure not just a mortgage, but better terms on other loans, like auto refinancing.
  • “If you’re renting, you’re paying a 100% interest rate.” — Lester Watt [49:48]
  • “If you sleep on that house, you won’t be sleeping in that house.” — Lester Watt [50:00]

8. Emotional and Physical Impact of Financial Empowerment

[49:54–52:42]

• Bryant explains the link between credit scores and life expectancy:
  • “If you have a 700-plus credit score, you live to 81 years of age. If you’re in the mid-500s, you live to about 61 years. For every 50-point increase, you extend your lifespan by about 5 years!” — John Hope Bryant [51:14]
• Financial peace reduces stress and elevates hope, impacting overall wellness.

9. Inspiration, Mindset, and The Power of Community

[56:16–61:01]

• Leanne affirms that mindset, literacy, and surrounding yourself with positive, knowledgeable people are the first steps to transformation—not just having money.
  • “Mindset creates generational wealth... When you know better and you make the better decisions, the wealth comes.” — Leanne Brown [58:35]
• Lester urges listeners to turn knowledge into action and seek help from Operation Hope, even if it’s virtually.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Financial literacy is a civil rights issue of this generation. I believe that AI literacy is the civil rights issue of this generation... We are going to go from the streets to the suites and move from access to ownership.” — John Hope Bryant [02:58]
• “Your credit is your resume.” — Leanne Brown [17:40]
• “I’d rather have a $20 purse with two thousand in the bank.” — Leanne Brown [27:43]
• “If you’re renting, you’re paying a 100% interest rate.” — Lester Watt [49:48]
• “If you sleep on that house, you won’t be sleeping in that house.” — Lester Watt [50:00]
• _"Knowledge is not power until it is used." — Lester Watt [60:20]
• “You can make a mistake and not be one. Getting up where you are and moving forward in your life… that’s dignity.” — John Hope Bryant [62:28]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:47–09:43] – John Hope Bryant’s opening, wealth-building philosophy, and homeownership advocacy
• [14:08–16:44] – Introduction of Leanne Brown and her initial goals
• [18:28–20:40] – Leanne describes her financial upbringing and early mistakes
• [26:54–28:53] – Leanne’s credit/money decisions; shifting to financial education
• [33:29–35:56] – Rising credit score and home purchase
• [43:01–49:43] – Rent vs. mortgage realities, impact of interest rates
• [49:54–52:42] – Health and wellness linked to credit and money
• [56:16–61:01] – Leanne and Lester’s final advice and calls to action

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Homeownership is within reach. Even if you start with poor credit, with the right knowledge, guidance, and discipline, it’s attainable.
• Financial literacy = Dignity and Longevity. Money management skills don't just enable wealth, they reduce stress and increase quality (and length) of life.
• Surround yourself with knowledge and support. Mindset and community are as vital as dollars in your bank account.
• Use what you learn. Knowing isn’t enough—apply your knowledge: set a budget, improve your credit, seek wise counsel.
• Seek out resources. Operation Hope and similar organizations can provide free, customized support, regardless of your starting point.

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Final Words

This episode delivers not just inspiration but a clear, actionable blueprint for achieving homeownership and building generational wealth—especially for those who have historically been left out of the financial system. Through Leanne’s story and Lester’s coaching, listeners learn that with the right support, information, and grit, it is possible to break cycles, claim dignity, and lay a foundation for future generations.

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For more, visit OperationHope.org or listen to more episodes via the Black Effect Podcast Network or iHeartRadio.

Transcript

[Leanne Brown]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[John Hope Bryant]

Welcome to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant, a production of the Black Effect podcast network and iHeartRadio.

[Lester Watt]

Hey, hey.

[John Hope Bryant]

This is John Hope Bryant, and this is the Money and Wealth podcast series on iHeartRadio on the Black Effect Network. And this is a special episode, as you all know. And thank you all for making this podcast a top 50 podcast for entrepreneurship on Apple in the United States and pop top 150 on business and top 250 around the world on every continent for business and entrepreneurship. We have sparked and are sparking a movement around what I call silver rights, from civil rights to civil rights. And I believe financial literacy is a civil rights issue of this generation. I believe that AI literacy is the civil rights issue of this generation. And I believe that these two things are really future literacy for future generations and living an aspirational life. I believe that we are going to go from the streets to the suites and move from access to ownership. And that's what this podcast episode's about, is action, is making ownership actionable for the average everyday person. Some people feel, even though I tell my story over and over again, that I was homeless and I witnessed my mom and dad divorced in front of me and domestic abuse in front of me when I was 4 or 5 years old and murder in front of me when I was 6 or 7 and the death of my best friend before I was nine. All that and more. People seem to tend to not still sometimes relate to my story because they think, well, look at him now, and he's bought 700 homes. I can't relate to that. I'm trying to buy one. Well, we've got somebody with us who has bought one and did it brilliantly. And before we get into that, the reason I underscore this is I don't bring guests on often on the show. It's this is, as people know, this is typically me in conversation. So if I bring a guest on, it's a big deal. And it's typically some CEO or celebrity or whatever. And this is both a CEO and a celebrity of our community. They have made a dream real now. What kind of dream? Home ownership. I have said to you that the number one way you build wealth in America is home ownership. I have tried to underscore that 75 of our mainstream counterparts, our white friends, have bought a home and own one. I've tried to explain to you that the entire tax policy of the United States of America, the biggest economy in the world, is based around supporting home ownership. You get to write off your mortgage payment, get to write off interest, mortgage interest. You get to benefit from depreciation if it's a income producing property. And appreciation for any property is so many benefits of homeownership that you don't get as a renter. If you're a renter, you'll, you know, you'll be worth a couple hundred bucks. I, I mean like, I'm not joking, if you're a homeowner, you're, it's a couple hundred thousand dollars. It's not even close night and day difference. But most black Americans own, don't own a home. Between 40 and 44% of us own a home, less than half. But it's the easiest pathway to create wealth and generational wealth. You make money during the day, you build wealth in your sleep. But it's a daunting, overwhelming thought for most people. And if you buy a home and you buy it wrong, you end up in 2008. The 2008 mortgage crisis. It wasn't a problem with people owning a home, is a problem with people buying it wrong. If you get a toe up mortgage underneath at home, it's really like getting A is like going and buying a car with a 500 credit score. You're going to a B or C car dealership, meaning secondary in your neighborhood, selling used cars with bad financing. And that was not going to be a Mercedes you bought, it's going to be a Mercedes payments. And so if you buy a mortgage, if you get a home and that home has a structured mortgage that is subprime, as they would say, it's a bomb waiting to explode. If you get an adjustable rate loan tied to that mortgage, that, that mortgage, that adjustable rate's not going down. That is going to adjust up. And as it adjusts up, if you ask what was a payment, you bought a home. Like you shouldn't buy even a car, which is asking what's the payment? You never ask what the payment is when there's an interest rate attached. But if you got a, bought a home with six figures attached to it and asked what was the payment? And that payment was, I'm making this up fifteen hundred dollars a month. And you said okay, I can do that. And it was an adjustable rate mortgage, it's going to in all likelihood adjust over time up and in three years that payment may be double. So the house didn't change, but your finances did. And it in that situation, adjustable rate mortgages, negative amortization mortgages, which means the more money you pay, the more you owe. Every payment you make, you owe more because you're stuck on the payment, but the payment is not covering principal and interest of the agreement. And so it's negative amortization. You are literally owing more every day. So all this financial illiteracy helped to create the mortgage crisis of 2008 that really deadened a lot of people of color from buying a home and owning one. And so we want to reimagine that. We want to change that. You cannot have a rainbow without a storm first can't grow except through legitimate suffering. So other people have gone through the valley for you and we have one of those people with us today. And I am going to stop talking and turn it over to one of our full financial coaches, Lester, who is going to Lester Watt, who is going to interview this wonderful lady and testimonial for Operation Hope and unpack a story that you can relate did you know.

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[John Hope Bryant]

So I am really excited now to give you a living example of what hope looks like of the kind of people who are dignity rich, who are changing their lives, who are living the dream and hidden and maybe didn't think they could. They are an operation hope success story. They're. They're both heroes and in this case a shero and the people who help to make it so are Hope Financial coaches, which I call a private banker for the working class, the working class and the working middle class. Our private bankers are in 1500 offices, 300 officers staffed by my team, literally in 43 states. And one of those dream makers is with us today. Meet Lester Watt.

[Lester Watt]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have the pleasure of introducing one of my truly, truly success stories, Ms. Leanne Brown. About two and a half years ago, Leanne actually came to me and said that she wanted to be a homeowner, right? That was her goal, was to stop renting and build wealth for herself and stop building wealth for her landlord. And as I do with all the clients, when they come and say, hey, I want to be a homeowner, I said, listen, there's a process, right? And I want to know your why. Why do you want to become a homeowner? And I'll give different responses. They'll say, oh, I want to have a backyard for my children. In Leanne's case, she wanted to have a home for her and her mother. And so as we went through this process, she brought her mother on board and we helped her mom and her to get our credit, get their scores to grow.121 points, right? And got it. And I told them, and I told Leanne, I said, listen, as you go back through this process, when we're doing the. Getting the credit cleaned up, there's some things, the things that she had to get worked out on the credit budget is. Was the first thing that we looked at Leanne, she looked at that budget, and I said, all right, we talk about how much money we're spending on eating out and, you know, wants versus needs when we're out spending. And I said, you're going to have to refer, you may. During this process, you may have to refer back to your why you're wanting to go through this. As these things go and get difficult when that, when that banker ask you for that, that, that bank statement for the third time, because the old ones have expired, hey, don't fight it. Just give them whatever they need so that we can get through it. And so Leanne decided she was going to go through. She said, I'm all in going through the process and her amazing story, and I want her to touch on this, to tell the story of how she went through the process and then decided to take it further as we were talking earlier about passing this on to her children so that she can build generational wealth for her and pass all the Information that I gave her on to her kids so she could break that cycle. So, Leanne, would you. Would you like to talk and tell your story about how you decide to do that?

[Leanne Brown]

Yes, I do. First, I want to thank Mr. John Hope Brian for having me today. I also want to thank you for Operation Hope, because it's because of your story in your company that's put me in this position where I am today. So I really appreciate it. Just like Lester said, I contacted first, the bank, Cadence bank here In Memphis, Tennessee, Ms. Ruth Phillips, and she pulled my credit report and everything because I was interested in buying a home. Well, I had the down payment, and I had all the money. So, like most people, you thinking, okay, you got money, you're good to go. But I learned real quickly, your credit is your resume. I don't think people really understand your credit is your resume. If you go on a job, they're going to look and see can they trust you, how you've been thus far. You want to come here? Why? I need to know what I'm working with. So that's pretty much what I felt like when she did that. And she was like, wait a minute. You know? And life happens, you know, Credit is not something that I learned. Working with Mr. Lester isn't something that you don't have to feel bad about because life does happen. But with a company like Operation Hope, they want to bring you out. You don't have to stay stuck. He wants to bring you from that stagnation, that mindset that this is just is who I am. So. But when she said, I got to get you some help, I was like, okay. And she said, I'm a contact for you, Lester. She didn't do a lot of long talks. You just say, I'm contacting you with Operation Hope. They can help you. A guy by the name of Lester. So I contacted him, and it went up from there. First of all, we did a financial worksheet before you.

[John Hope Bryant]

Before you. Before you do that, before you get into what happened and how you move forward. What's your backstory? Like, why. How do you get in this situation where you know you didn't know, where you didn't know? I mean, clearly you're a smart lady. And what I keep telling people is that you're not dumb and you're not stupid. It's what you don't know that you don't know, but you think you know. You never talk. No one ever taught you financial literacy. We end up making a bunch of. We end up we end up learning by making mistakes, and those mistakes are costly. As you said, your credit report is your resume, which is great. It's a beautiful way of saying that. But that, my guess is that lesson was learned the hard way.

[Leanne Brown]

Right.

[John Hope Bryant]

So tell me a little bit and let us a little bit about where you came from and how you got here and learned these lessons.

[Leanne Brown]

Right? That's right. Well, I, I came from an area, it's like south Memphis. I grew up in South Memphis. And so my mom, her. Well, we, she had nine other. Eight other siblings. So it was nine of. So you can pretty much think about growing up in a two bedroom home. Thank God we have a lot of success stories within that. But so, but my mom worked two jobs, so her mindset was making sure, you know, you got food on the table, you got clothes on your back and these things. So it really won finances. And that wasn't a topic, even though I knew she, she made things work, you know, but it was not discussed how she made it work. Right. So I had to learn from trial and error as an adult. I had my daughter young, I had my daughter when I was 18. And so I had to learn trial and error growing up, you know, and in the process of that, you getting things you don't need, you know, you making financial decisions that you, you don't, you know, you're not smart at because you don't know. And that's what I did. And so in process of that, up until, you know, I actually contacted Mrs. Ruth, you know, those were the things that I learned that I should have done. And I, you know, I should not have done. And I did. But at the end of the day I realized example.

[John Hope Bryant]

What's an example of, of something you shouldn't have done and you did a mistake you made. I thought it was very useful information. Lester, where she said that she shared with an audience that growing up, like the household didn't talk about money. I mean, I say this, but I'm not sure. People, people seem to put me in some other category or something like I don't, I didn't struggle. But when she says I think it has more credibility and they go, yeah, I can relate to that. A lot of our households don't talk about how this all comes about how the bills get paid or, or what account it comes from or who's where the income and how does it get spread over every two pay, every twice a month, two pay periods. So your whole life growing up, stuff just magically happened. But explained how it happened. Is that right? Right.

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[Lester Watt]

That's very typical, Mr. Chairman, that, that a lot of the clients that come to us as a coach, they, they just don't know. They've never had those conversations. And then so I had an 83 year old gentleman about bought his first home and so we set that process up and he was the prime example to say, I never thought anything about this. In 83 years of being on this earth, I've never done anything like this. I've never taught my son. And so he got his son in there at 83 years old. So it's, it's a very common thing, especially in the community here in Memphis.

[John Hope Bryant]

So, so. And you're, and you're a Memphis resident? Mayor Paul Young, our partner.

[Lester Watt]

Yes. Yeah, we were, we were there at, I was at the Hope Global Forum, Mr. Chairman, the December 1st through the 3rd. And I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but on that future proofing 20, 25, the pin that's there, you've got Leanne Brown featured on that pin. Did you know that?

[John Hope Bryant]

I did not know that. That's beautiful. That's great.

[Lester Watt]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's future. I took a picture while I was there of it connected to her and she was like, oh my God, are you serious? I said, yeah. And so when I got back in, I got an extra one and I brought her an extra one back.

[John Hope Bryant]

So was that thousands and thousands of people wore her. Oh, yeah. And millions of people saw that online. So Leanne, tell Lester and I in the Audience, unpack a couple of these stories of how life happened as a result of no one explaining to you in the household how life gets managed. And then we'll get into the current situation, right?

[Leanne Brown]

One thing come to mind is credit cards. So when you turn 18, you get all these yeses, okay? So the. When you apply and they say yes a lot of times, what a lot of people don't know, those 300 credit cards are for me, for me at that time was the worst because I didn't have the knowledge to manage it. I was. It was, was. It was a survival mode. You know, when you ate 18 and you get these credit cards, you don't even realize that, you know, you're living in survival mode. So you get these 300 credit cards and they say, pay the minimum 25. And then you thinking, well, you know, it's just 25. You're not even thinking how it would impact your credit if you're late on that. And then if you go 30 days past due now, $300 has literally into, you know, interrupt your whole Life, you know, $25, you know, so. And you don't think about paying more, you know, at that age. And so I try to right now. That helped me encourage my. My children now to. To think twice about being quickly about getting credit cards, you know, so those are mistakes that I made growing up then. I was trying to buy things that I didn't need, you know. You know, I heard somebody say, don't buy a 500 purse if you only got $20, you know, that's all you know. And so that's why I tell, well, I have a two. I'd rather have a twenty dollar purse with two thousand in the bank. You know, there you go.

[Lester Watt]

There you go.

[Leanne Brown]

All. All those kind of things play a part in it, you know, a lot of people may not speak about it, but that's a lot of people's truth that, you know, damage their credit young. And that's what I can say for me. That's what I did. And so what. What they say, when you learn better, you do better. Yes.

[John Hope Bryant]

Amen. Lester, over to you. No, don't. Don't let me get in the way of progress.

[Lester Watt]

Well, so when as she went, Ruth is my bank partner here is Cadence bank. Right. And so Ruth was the one that actually referred her. Leanne over to me. And then once she.

[John Hope Bryant]

By the way, though, let's just acknowledge that the. We. We. We love Cadence and love partnering with them, but we wouldn't be in and Wells Fargo as a partner there and some others. But we wouldn't be in Truest. We wouldn't be in Memphis if it wasn't for First Horizon Bank. And my lead, our lead director, our board member, Brian Jordan, and Brian, who I'm sure will listen to this podcast, is as happy with Leanne getting her mortgage from Cadence as they as he would be from getting the mortgage from First Rise. And he knows that, that the more homeowners there are in Memphis, the more taxpayers there are in Memphis, the more productive citizens there are in Memphis, the more pride there is in Memphis, the more valuable Memphis is, the more valuable his bank is. Is that's based in Memphis.

[Lester Watt]

Oh, yeah.

[John Hope Bryant]

So all boats rise in a situation where everybody does well. And we wanna. We're telling the Cadence story at the moment, but we could be talking about, thank God, any number of our partners as we bring prime. Once we finish with our work, we're bringing them prime rate candidates for a mortgage loan or whatever the loan type is, capital access. Because we've been working with them, people like you've been working with them to get them rehabilitated, refined, reset, so they can literally, as I keep saying, they're not black or white or red or blue, they're green. She's wearing green today, by the way, which is.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah.

[John Hope Bryant]

So anyway, so Cadence Bay, go ahead.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah, so Cadence Bank. And then I'll say this too, Mr. Chairman, here in Memphis, we. We again, as you said, we've got so many bank partners. And I can say one thing about the coaches, the teams here in Memphis, is that we interact and we support each other. We literally just had a Christmas party on Tuesday that all the coaches, ones from First Horizons, from Cadence bank, bank of America, all of these coaches from these bank partners and Truist as well, were here. We decided to go to dinner together and just spend time with each other. And we refer back and forth, we help each other out as coaches, but with. With Ruth feeding, with Ruth Phillips at Cadence, she really, you know, that that whole team sends me a ton of clients. And when I got Leanne, it's one of my. My most proudest moments because it was a process and she. She committed to sticking to it. And. And she did. So she. The first thing we did when we did that budget, and then I started talking to her, I said, hey, we're looking at this budget. We say we're only spending a hundred dollars on reading out, right? That's what we got on the budget. But when I look at that, when I look at that bank statement. And I, and just like I do, all the clients hold them accountable, say, listen, you know, you're spending more than a hundred dollars. It'd be nice if it is just a hundred. Right. We can get it down to there. But I just hold them accountable as they go through that process. And she went through it and said, okay, all right, I'm gonna have to stop eating out so much. I'm gonna have to, you know, bring my lunch, start doing some meal preps. Right. I can't, I can't hit, I can't hit Starbucks every day and get it when we got a, we got a carry machine at the office, you know that. So, so she, she, she took ownership of it, made the adjustments and like she said, she had the money, you know, saved for the down payment, but the credit was the issue. And as we went through that process.

[John Hope Bryant]

Well, first of all, I mean, it's pretty amazing that she had their money saved.

[Lester Watt]

Oh, yeah.

[John Hope Bryant]

For the down payment. So I want to give her kudos for that. And that's unique in and of itself. Almost 70 of this country doesn't have 400 for an unplanned event. The fact that she was able to save thousands of dollars for a down payment is something that should be absolutely commended. So her. So Leanne did a good job on savings and disciplined herself, but her credit was, it tore up from the flow up. Lester, was it?

[Lester Watt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty low. She was in the mid-500s.

[John Hope Bryant]

Okay.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah. So we got it up. I think when she actually closed, we actually closed. It was like right at 680. So, you know, that's great. 700.

[Leanne Brown]

So.

[Lester Watt]

And she's there now. Right. So she, since she's been in the house, we've gone through. And one of the things that I do with all of the, all of my clients is once you get in the house and she's been in the house for what, a year and a. Almost a year and a half now. Leanne?

[Leanne Brown]

Yes.

[Lester Watt]

One of the things that I do with all my clients that get approved for the mortgage and close on it is I set up two month appointment after they've closed because I want to redo that budget again. Typically, typically the. What they were paying for rent was more than what their actual house note is. Right. Because rent's constantly going up. But. Yep. And then one of. And then the other thing is the utility bill usually adjusts. I want to get two months in there so that, that you. We can look at that to utility Bill because typically utility bill is going to be more in the house than in the apartment because you're heating, cooling more space. So we get. You got that increase in there. But I want to make sure that budget gets done so that we can see the money that we've got left over. Now now we set up us a new savings goal after she's gotten into the house. So we meeting and then follow up and then, then after we got done and then everything just got started with her. The first thing when you were here in town at Mayor Young's event at the classic library when you. And we got. Leanne actually has pictures of you with signing, autographing your book. And so that happened. And she gave her testimony at that and I think you would say. And Ambassador Young really enjoyed her story there. Yes. Yep. That guy. That happened. And then we were. You said, okay, I want you to come on to be on the, to be give your testimony on at the, at the one of your board meetings. So she came on and she did that and then now this whole global form. So her, it's just been non stop for her after she's gotten all of these, gotten everything running. But she like say she still will call me, text me time from time to time just, just to check on me. And I told her.

[John Hope Bryant]

She's, she's.

[Lester Watt]

This is one of the things I love about what she's done. She has put her money where her mouth is. Before we came on the day she, I asked her, you know, how her mother was doing and then, and then how her kids were doing. And she said her daughter, she's already gotten her daughter in doing a budget and getting that and getting that set up and she's got a check on it. And one of the things that we talk about is she said, I really don't want to, I want to ask her now what's going on with a budget because it's Christmas time. But I let all my clients know, I give them this magic secret. I said, I'm gonna let you in on a secret that no one else knows about. Christmas comes the same time every year, always December 25th. So on December 26th to start playing for planning for next year's Christmas budgeting in your budget, how much money you're going to spend and getting those things together. So. And I told her, I said, go ahead, if you want me to get involved to help your daughter, I'll be more than happy to take her and get her through the program just like it did with her and her mother, but I'm so proud and and happy that that she has has done all of this. And and the credit goes like you said to her, because she put in the work. I just just gave her the blueprint, but she actually built the house and put and did the work herself.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Lester Watt]

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[John Hope Bryant]

It sounds to me, as you're talking again, before we came on, I heard you guys in conversation in the background. You have a relationship with each other. You're not just, you know, you weren't just doing a transaction to get her prepared to be a homeowner. You've gotten to know her, she's gotten to know you. You know her, you know her backstory, you know about her, about her father, about her daughter. You know, I mean it, correct me if I'm wrong, the coaches, the financial coaches, build a rapport and a relationship with the client that is ongoing. Is that right?

[Lester Watt]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and, and I've got clients even right now that have been in their homes. And one of the things that I tell them after they've closed on the home, you're going to start getting credit card offers from the repair stores, all the home improvement stores, because they see that you bought a home and you don't want to go out and start running those credit cards up. But I have clients that I'm literally working with now. She's closed on her house over three years ago and we're just together now building, redoing her budget so we can get her back on track and get some of those debts paid off. But yeah, that is A, that is an ongoing thing. We, a lot of times we will exit them from the program after they've completed the purchase of the home. But oftentimes they'll come back and say hey listen, I need help. Or even better than that, they will refer me, other friends or clients to say hey, he helped me to get a home. So let me go ahead and give you his number so he can help help you. So yeah, we do build that rapport with the clients.

[John Hope Bryant]

So you mentioned. I want to go back for a second. You mentioned that when she was renting or when someone rents an apartment, let's say that some expenses are going to be larger like heating because the house typically is a larger than the apartment and so you're have a larger area that you have to heat. That makes sense to me. Are there certain expenses that are going to be lower for a homeowner than it is for a renter? I'm just, I mean just.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah, yeah. The, the, the, the actual rent payment. I'll give you this specific example that I know stands out to me. Had a client rent payment was 1345 for rent for a three bedroom apartment, three $1,345. Bought that when she purchased that new home, it was a little over eleven hundred dollars. So the actual rent typically, the mortgage payment typically is lower than what the rental payment is that the clients are paying. And keep in mind that they're constantly, every, every single year the, the landlords are going up on the rent at least $100. And if they go from month to month, Right. So let's say if they're in the process and we know that, hey, we've just about got them ready to, to close to buy the home, but that lease is up, up. And then they'll say okay, we'll let you go month to month, but you're gonna have to pay an extra $200 just to go month to month. Right. Just, just because you're gonna give me a 30 day notice on when you're gonna, when you're gonna get out. So I need to get extra money. So those things definitely happen as far as your renters go.

[John Hope Bryant]

So as a, as a landlord myself, as an investor myself, I mean I was the largest minority owner of single family rental homes in America with the company I built called the Promise Homes Company I sold it to three years ago. I still am an investor in it, a passive investor with the new owners, which I'm actually trying to transition out of. But and part of the reason I want to transition out of it is I don't control it anymore. And I can't control the narrative. I can control the rents, I can't control the quality of the operations. And I don't want to be associated with something if I'm not controlling the outcome because my reputation is tied to that.

[Leanne Brown]

Well, what.

[John Hope Bryant]

But one of the ways landlords profit is the easiest way to do it is just jack up rents there. And, and I chose not to do that for years. I, my rents were actually below market rate. But the average landlord will jack up rent every year. And when you usually as you said properly Lester, you as you made the point that when you're a homeowner, you're the landlord.

[Lester Watt]

There you go.

[John Hope Bryant]

And you, you set your own. I mean this is, this is gangster now.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh yeah.

[John Hope Bryant]

You set the, the level of what, how much you're going to pay if you don't want to pay as much interest on that mortgage. Although you can write off that interest, mortgage interest for 2/3 of the 30 year mortgage and get that money back in a tax refund if you do a long form tax return. But if you want to pay that much interest, if you're just allergic to interest, you can double down on payments. You can make the same payment amount but pay it twice a month versus a three thousand dollar a month mortgage or is a fifteen hundred a month mortgage. You can pay fifty, seven hundred fifty every two weeks.

[Lester Watt]

Two weeks. Right.

[John Hope Bryant]

And knock off a bunch of the interest. This is a little, little sort of knowledge hacks on.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah.

[John Hope Bryant]

On, on wealth creation. And you'll pay. You, you'll, you'll knock down the length of time you're paying off that mortgage considerably. You'll knock off years literally just paying it every two weeks, same amount versus paying it once a month. But you are, how much you're paying every month is defined by you because you're the landlord, you're the owner. That's so powerful. And I did not know when I asked you that question.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah.

[John Hope Bryant]

I thought you're gonna tell me something small like some, a light bill or something. You said no, the biggest bill that you can imagine is the one that's smaller than renting typically. And that's the rent payment versus the mortgage payment itself. Is there another bill that might be an example of variance, but more or less.

[Lester Watt]

Well, I'll give you, with your, with your example there. You're actually, when you're making those payments every two weeks, you're actually making 13 mortgage payments a year as opposed to 12 when you're paying them each month. And so you're right. It does cut down on that interest. But for me, what I found that that is. That is the main bill. That. That rent is what. That's the biggest one. And that's the biggest. That's the one that I try to. I try to make sure that they get taken care of as far as making those monthly payments. Now, car notes, typically, when. What I will have them to do is once we've gotten their credit score up, up, I will go and I will tell them, okay, now that that credit score is up, when you bought that car, you had a, you know, 700 car note. Now your credit score is higher. Let's go refinance that car. Right. And get that. And pull that monthly payment down on that car so we can get a lower interest rate. So that's. That's another one of the things that I would do.

[John Hope Bryant]

And, Lester, correct me if I'm wrong. I think you're just saying is there's two ways to make money. You make more, you spend less. And by lowering the interest rate, you're lowering the payment.

[Lester Watt]

Yep.

[John Hope Bryant]

On the car note. And she's keeping more money in her pocket.

[Lester Watt]

Absolutely.

[John Hope Bryant]

Income is the same. She's made more money. But these two moves, by giving her credit up and getting her financial resiliency up, she's paying less on her biggest bill, which is where she lives.

[Lester Watt]

Right.

[John Hope Bryant]

She's paying less on her second biggest bill, probably, which is what she's driving.

[Lester Watt]

That's right. Absolutely. And the main thing is it ties all back to credit. One of the pushbacks, too, that I will have with clients, I will say, they'll say, well, you know, interest rates are too high now. You know, I want to wait until interest rate go down. Well, when, you know, when the rates were 2 and a half and 3%, what was going on then? Right, right.

[John Hope Bryant]

That's free money. That was free money.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah, that was Covid. That's never coming back again. So I listen, Kova is never coming back like that again. So go ahead, buy the house now. And when you get in, a lot of my clients, you know, we're in a Bible bell here in Memphis. And so a lot of my clients, oh, you know, I need. I'm gonna have to pray about. Pray about this. And I say, okay, you. You. When you go look at that house and you find that, you better be prayed up, you know, because I have a real estate agent buddy of mine that says if you sleep on this house, you will not sleep in this house. Because the minute you walk out of there, somebody you know come in there, put a contract on it. And don't worry about the interest rate. Once you get your credit score up, go ahead and refinance it. You know, talk about interest rate. If you're renting, you're paying a hundred percent interest rate, right? Because you're renting. So go ahead and get wherever the rates are.

[John Hope Bryant]

Leslie, you dropping some jewels, man?

[Lester Watt]

Yeah.

[John Hope Bryant]

If you're renting, you're paying 100 interest rate.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

[John Hope Bryant]

And it's so true. If you don't sleep, if you don't, if you don't, if you sleep on that house, you won't be sleeping in that house.

[Lester Watt]

There another one.

[John Hope Bryant]

God helps those who help themselves.

[Lester Watt]

There you go.

[John Hope Bryant]

And, and so you can pray, but you got to move on the Bible, by the way, in Proverbs, for all of our Bible focused people listening to this podcast, the Bible says that in Proverbs, to be poor is not to. Not to, not to not have anything. To be poor is not to not do anything. And lazy hands make a man poor. So God helps those who help themselves. You can't just sit and pray about it and think about it and worry about, you got to do something about it. PhDs are good. PhD's are better. And you both are examples of taking a PhD knowledge and turning into a PhD action plan and changing her life. Money's not evil. It's the love of money is evil.

[Lester Watt]

That's right.

[John Hope Bryant]

And we're getting, we're getting played by a system we don't understand. And what you've done is empowered Leanne with knowledge and soon her daughter, so she can take back her life. And you can just look at her in her eyes and see how much confidence she has now, how poised she is. By the way, I don't know if you know this lecture. You've helped her, she's helped herself, but you've now helped her extend her life because she had a credit score in the mid-5500s. If you're in the mid-500s, you live to about 61 years of age. If you have a 700 plus credit score, you live to 81 years of age. So for every 55, for every 50 points increase in credit score, you're extending your life span about five years. Because your well being is changing your mindset, changing your hope is changing your belief, your wellness and your choices are changing. You're more optimistic. You are. People in our community are dying before they get to Social Security, they're dying at 61 years of age. They're dropping dead because of hypertension and stress and bad habits. So you literally by raising your credit scores to 700, you've extended your life, created another quartile of living.

[Lester Watt]

Yeah, our, our credit, our. This credit score. Him. If I use our credit score index we have on our website. Chairman BRIAN and the average score in the, the old foot homes, they call it new. I can't remember the name of it now, but it's 591, right? That's, that's the average score in that neighborhood. You can go 10, 15 miles further down into Germantown, it's a 763. And then the US average is 706. And so Leanne is now above the US average for credit score. And I'm just so happy for her. She is like killing it now. So she's way above the average here in Memphis.

[Commercial Announcer]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop. Voted PCMag's reader's choice top laptop brand for 2025 thin and and ultra lightweight. The LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

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Is what gets your business to market. And Wasabi is designed to give every business a shot at competition How? Break free from skyrocketing storage costs and unpredictable egress fees from old and top heavy legacy providers. You know the big guys Wasabi is the world's hottest cloud storage company and the go to provider for professional and collegiate sports teams and leagues around the world. And here's why. Innovation From Wasabi's AI enabled intelligent media storage Wasabi Air to the industry's only cloud storage service with triple protection against cybercriminals, data deletion and ransomware. The world's top companies trust Wasabi. Remember, Wasabi is up to 80% less than market competition and doesn't charge a cent for businesses to access their own data. Wasabi Another championship story. Check them out for [e-mail] Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage proud partner of iHeart Podcast.

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[John Hope Bryant]

Well, look, we're getting towards the the end of this episode, but if there are any things that Leanne or you, Lester, want to share with the audience that are sources of inspiration, aspiration of recommendation, that habit breaking habit for me that that you want to share for an audience looking for hope with a business plan attached to it.

[Lester Watt]

Leanne, I'll let you go first. And then I do have something that I'd like to share too.

[Leanne Brown]

Okay, Yes, I just want to share. There's some people that may want a home, they may want a business, but like I did, they feel stuck. I often hear Mr. Hope, Mr. Brian say if you keep hanging around 10 people, you'll be the 11, one.

[John Hope Bryant]

You'll be the tens, but close enough.

[Leanne Brown]

You'Ll be extra person if you will. I will say that's a mindset too, being in the midst of a company, the organization on operation hope, as Mr. Brian said, me and Mr. Watt, we have a relationship. When you learn financial literacy, you're going to be keen to kind of be more around those type of mindsets. Success starts in the first. It's not, you know, a lot of people may think you have to have this money first. Well, in order to get the money you have to have the right knowledge, you know, the right circle of people. And so for me that change and then my mindset changed when I started getting educated in the financial with Operation Hope and getting those knowledge and those wit and the ended and then the, you know, the ways to go about paying my bills and those simple things that made me, my mindset change and now I have a successful mindset. I don't consider myself in poverty thinking, a poverty mentality, a woe is me mentality. You know, it starts, it starts in the mind first. Don't wait on your money to be in the bank. Get financial, get the financial literacy you need. Contact Operation Hope. You may feel stuck that you want a home, you want a business. Well, contact these, these people. Allow them to work with you, allow them to help you and so you can help yourself and your family. Because I'm a, I'm a pro, I'm a firm believer. People learn by what they see, the example. And I'm grateful that now that I can be an example for my family and my generations, generations to come. So that creates generational wealth when you change your mindsets. Mindsets creates generational wealth. It's not always a big money in the bank. Right. You know, when, when you know better and you make the better decisions, the wealth comes, you know, and, and the word says and all get, and get knowledge and understanding. So that's my prayer for you, those out there that's looking to get a home, looking to make those changes in your life. Contact Operation Hope and let these people and we're family oriented over here. You know, I, I all the whole time I've worked and I've seen Mr. Bryant. Mr. They just feel like family. I'm like, okay, these are my peeps here. So grateful. I'm grateful for the opportunity and I just encourage you to contact them.

[Lester Watt]

Well, I always, when I do my closings at any of my workshops, I'll close out with a couple of things. I'll say, you know, I was raised primarily by my grandparents and my grandparents had a lot of old sayings. So one of the old sayings, they say, when you know better, you will but do better.

[Leanne Brown]

Right?

[Lester Watt]

Right. And I say, you believe that? And everybody. Yes, yes, I believe it too. And then I finally close it out by saying one. Another old saying they had was knowledge is power. Power, right. And I say, do you believe that? And they say, yeah. And I say, I don't. Knowledge is not power until it is used. So you are. So if you are watching this podcast and you know that you need some help, go to Operation Hope Dot, take a look, find a coach in your area. You may not have one directly in your area, but the majority of our meetings are done virtually right. So if you need help with homeownership, you need help with credit or small business disaster, go to operationhope.org look us up and find a coach near you. And don't worry if we're not in your area again, we can do. Do things virtually as well. So thank you, Mr. Chairman, so much for having. Allowing me and Leanne to be on the day. I really appreciate it.

[John Hope Bryant]

It man. You may be taking my job as a podcast. In. I heard maybe like, look, we, we need to move you. Move you. This is pretty good. Your coaches are better than you are, John. And that's true. I want my coaches actually to be. I have a. I have a whole financial coach. Eric Clay. Yeah, I have a whole financial coach. I talk to them once a quarter, once a. Once, once every few months, and they always find something messed up on my credit report error. There's something needs to be fixed because I'm moving fast. I don't time to be thrown around with. With this, with this stuff. They do it for me. And so everybody needs help. Everybody. And as you heard, the audience has now heard. We didn't. We didn't pre plan this. We didn't. We didn't rehearse this. You heard this was off the cuff. We, we had some church in here. And lesson took us to school. But Lester is representative. We have hundreds of employees at Operation Hope, most of them financial coaches. Lester is just representative of the quality of those coaches. He really is good. He knows what he's talking about. And you can trust them. They have your best interest at home heart. Thank you very much, Leanne and Lester. This has been quite inspirational because we've got to be able to take this thing and put it, as my friend Tim Burt would say, a Southern, true Southern boy. He'd say, you got to put, you got to put this knowledge where the goats can get it. Make sure that this is, that is high frequency, but it's within reach. And I think that what you have done is made this within reach, reach of everybody, no matter what their station in life, while retaining their dignity. There's no, there's no shame in making mistakes. You can make a mistake and not be one. Getting up where you are and moving forward in your life. And Leanne, you have done exactly that. Stay on your course, keep going. I can tell you're going to be successful. There's going to be challenges, there's going to be bumps in the road. Vote. That's okay. You will, you will. You will succeed. I can tell you'll get through all of them. And you call Lester whenever you get into a spot and he will. And the team will wrap resources around you to help you maneuver around it. Thank you all very much. This has been the Money and Wealth podcast series for 2025. Going into 2026, this is a timeless episodes. We may play it over and over again on Black effect network on iHeartradio. Go change your life today. Thank you very much.

[Lester Watt]

All right, thank you.

[John Hope Bryant]

Money and wealth with John o' Brien is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the Black Effect Podcast network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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