178. How to Get on the Same Page with Your Partner about Money

Summary

Podcast Summary: Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi

Episode Title: How to Get on the Same Page with Your Partner about Money
Episode Number: 178
Release Date: October 15, 2024
Host: Ramit Sethi

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Introduction

In Episode 178 of "Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi," Ramit delves into the complex dynamics of financial conversations between partners. Hosted live at the Neptune Theater in Seattle, Washington, the episode features intimate, unfiltered discussions with two real-life couples: Sophia and Charlie, and Megan and Ryan. This episode aims to illuminate how couples can navigate money-related challenges, fostering trust and collaboration to build a Rich Life together.

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Opening Remarks and Audience Engagement

Ramit begins the session by announcing his upcoming Money for Couples live book tour, encouraging listeners to join and connect with others striving to improve their financial relationships. He sets an energetic tone, emphasizing the importance of active participation in financial discussions rather than passive acceptance.

Notable Quote:

"Most of us treat money passively... I just think it's so much more fun to be active with money."
— Ramit Sethi [02:00]

He engages the audience by prompting them to share their relationship status and upbringing regarding money, highlighting how early financial attitudes shape adult behaviors.

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Introducing the Couples

Sophia and Charlie

• Sophia: An ultrasound technician with a Type A personality, focused on saving.
• Charlie: A 40-year-old filmmaker described as opportunistic, often seizing financial opportunities without extensive planning.

Notable Quote:

"I need someone else to give Charlie advice about money."
— Sophia [10:00]

They reveal their struggles with aligning their financial habits, where Sophia's meticulous saving clashes with Charlie's spontaneous spending, leading to financial tension despite a decade-long relationship.

Megan and Ryan

• Megan: A 37-year-old dentist who manages her finances manually, distrusting automation.
• Ryan: A 36-year-old software engineering manager who embraces automated financial systems.

Notable Quote:

"We keep our money completely separate, and we don't have any joint accounts."
— Ryan [14:00]

Despite a combined net worth of $4.2 million, Megan and Ryan face challenges in discussions over money management strategies, particularly around savings and spending habits.

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Facilitated Conversations and Exercises

Ramit introduces structured exercises from his upcoming book, Money for Couples, to help the couples initiate positive financial dialogues.

First Positive Money Conversation

Objective: Reframe the financial discussion from a source of stress to an opportunity for connection and shared goals.

Steps:

1. Why This Meeting is Awesome

   • Sophia: "The meeting will be awesome because we'll feel more connected and have a plan." [27:13]
   • Charlie: "I feel like it will help us actualize our potential if we can get on the same page about money." [27:18]

2. Expressing Current Feelings About Money

   • Charlie: "I feel scared about money, but I also feel optimistic." [27:53]
   • Sophia: "I feel like I always want to save it, and I'm nervous that if you don't start trying to save it... I am going to be like a money hoarder." [28:20]

3. Desired Feelings About Money

   • Sophia: "I want to just be on the same page and have a plan... I want to be able to enjoy it and spend it on things that I enjoy." [29:00]
   • Charlie: "I want to feel excited about money, and I want to feel like we're in control." [29:27]

Insights:

• Ramit: Emphasizes the importance of starting conversations with feelings and visions rather than numbers, fostering a positive atmosphere. [30:05]

Rich Life Fill in the Blanks

Objective: Help couples articulate their financial desires and dreams without focusing on monetary constraints.

Process:

• Lightning Round Questions:

  • "If I could spend more money on hotels..."
    Sophia: "I wish we could spend more money on hotels." [52:44] Ryan: "Plane tickets." [53:01]

  • "My dream vacation is..."
    Ramit: "Tahiti." [53:06] Ryan: "Vietnam." [53:19]

  • "If I could hire a coach for anything, it would be..."
    Megan: "Dancing." [53:30] Ryan: "Personal trainer." [53:30]

  • "If I had $100 to improve my life, I would..."
    Megan: "My hair done." [53:32] Ryan: "Change somebody else's life." [53:35]

  • "If I had $1,000 to improve my life, I would..."
    Megan: "Private Chef." [53:30] Ryan: "Personal trainer." [53:35]

Outcomes:

• Couples identify non-monetary values and experiences that enhance their lives, such as travel, personal growth, and convenience, shifting the focus from spending to meaningful investments.

Notable Quote:

"It's not about the numbers because honestly, there's any hotel you choose, you can afford it."
— Ramit Sethi [59:06]

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Couples' Reflections and Takeaways

Sophia and Charlie's Update

Although not directly updated in the transcript, Ramit expresses hope that Sophia and Charlie have improved their financial conversations, fostering healthier communication and understanding.

Megan and Ryan's Transformation

Post-discussion, Megan and Ryan share significant progress:

• Enhanced Financial Conversations: Moving from minor disputes to addressing larger financial visions.
• Actionable Changes: Megan indulged in guilt-free purchases, and they booked trips to Costa Rica and Vietnam, prioritizing experiences over frugality.
• Future Plans: They are actively defining their Rich Life, focusing on education for their child about money and responsible gifting.

Notable Quote:

"Our biggest takeaways were that our net worth in 20 years will be way more than we'll know how to spend... We're trying to focus on the $30,000 questions instead of the $3 questions."
— Megan and Ryan [73:29]

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Ramit's Closing Insights

Ramit reiterates the power of active financial management and the importance of aligning financial goals with personal values. He encourages listeners to:

1. Initiate Positive Conversations: Start with feelings and visions, not numbers.
2. Dream Big: Move beyond minor financial disagreements to embrace larger life goals.
3. Stay Engaged: Continuously revisit and revise financial plans to adapt to changing life circumstances.

Notable Quote:

"My wish for you tonight... realize that you're an active driver in your rich life, that nobody's coming to save you."
— Ramit Sethi [72:59]

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Conclusion

Episode 178 of "Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi" serves as a transformative guide for couples aiming to harmonize their financial lives. Through candid discussions and practical exercises, Ramit empowers listeners to overcome money-related tensions, fostering a collaborative approach to building a Rich Life. By prioritizing communication, aligning values, and dreaming collectively, couples can navigate financial challenges and achieve lasting harmony.

Call to Action:

Ramit encourages listeners to apply the episode's lessons by envisioning how they would enhance their lives with additional funds and to share their visions, reinforcing the episode's message that money management is not just about numbers but about creating meaningful experiences together.

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Additional Resources:

• Pre-order Ramit's Book: Money for Couples available at iwt.com/moneyforcouples
• Live Book Tour Tickets: Visit iwt.com/booktour with presale code RICHLIFE

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This summary captures the essence of Episode 178, highlighting the key discussions, insights, and outcomes presented by Ramit Sethi and his featured couples. It serves as a comprehensive guide for those seeking to improve their financial relationships without having listened to the episode.

Transcript

[Ramit Sethi]

This January, I'm coming to a city near you. Tickets are now available for my Money for couples live book tour. Now, if you love the podcast and you want to connect with hundreds of other people who are trying to improve their relationship with money, I would love to see you there. Go to iwt.com booktour and use the presale code richlife to get your tickets. Now, I can tell you nothing beats the energy of being in that room and seeing couples live on stage. I'm coming to New York, LA, Chicago, SF and more. So get your [e-mail] book tour and use the presale code Rich Life on today's episode. We are live from Neptune Theater in Seattle, Washington.

[Audience Member 1]

Whoa.

[Audience Member 2]

Seattle. We are here to talk about love and money. Tonight we are going to have couples and they are going to share things that they have never shared before.

[Ramit Sethi]

Sophia is an ultrasound tech. Charlie is a filmmaker. They struggle to get on the same page with money.

[Audience Member 2]

Charlie, when you heard that Sophia applied, what was your reaction?

[Audience Member 1]

Of course you did.

[Sophia]

I need someone else to give Charlie advice about money.

[Audience Member 1]

Why not learn in front of a thousand people?

[Ramit Sethi]

And we also have Megan and Ryan who are in their 30s and they are playing it small compared to their net worth.

[Megan]

I don't automate mine.

[Audience Member 2]

Why does a dentist have manual?

[Megan]

I don't trust the robots.

[Ryan]

There are things like houses that are still really hard. It's a weird middle ground to be in.

[Audience Member 2]

Middle ground compared to like 100 millionaire. Tell the crowd. What'd you get?

[Megan]

I bought some Birkenstocks and I didn't wait for the Nordstrom anniversary sale.

[Ryan]

I laugh about it because, yeah, like I did take a lower paying job. It still pays $300,000 a year.

[Audience Member 2]

Like, it's fine. I love Seattle.

[Ramit Sethi]

Welcome to the money for couples show formerly known as I will teach you to be rich. Today's episode is a special one. You're going to hear me work with two couples live on stage in front of hundreds of people. At a recent event that I did in Seattle, one couple struggles to have healthy conversations about money and they need help speaking each other's language. The other couple struggles to turn the page on their finances. They are successful at a young age, but they still agonize over small expenses. You'll also hear me introduce some new exercises from my upcoming book, money for Couples. I'm going to be doing more events like this for my live book tour this January and tickets have just gone on sale. I would love to see you go to iwt.com booktour or grab the link in the show notes below to get your ticket. I would love to see you in your city. Now let's get to the show.

[Audience Member 2]

All right, y'all, we're going to need to get that energy way up. Please welcome your host from Netflix's how to get rich, New York Times bestselling author and the host of the podcast I will teach you to be rich, Ramit Sethi. Whoa. Damn. Oh, my God. Seattle. We're here to talk about love and money tonight. What's the first words that come to mind when you hear the word money? Let's hear it. Scary. What else? Stressful. What? Anybody have anything positive to say? What the damn. Bunch of sad, morose people here tonight. Oh, it's so sad. Money's so scary. All right, we're gonna fix that tonight. We got an hour and a half. We're gonna fix it. I'll tell you, I can't believe that I get to talk about love and money and emotions for a living. Like, I'll be sitting there, I'm three and a half hours into a conversation with somebody. They're telling me something, you know, from their childhood, and I'm empathizing. I'm listening. And I'm saying, that's. That's really tough. I wish you didn't have to go through that. That sounds really hard. And then four weeks later, I look at the actual YouTube video, and this is what my face looked like. And sometimes I go, why did you do that? Like, I can't believe I have this job.

[Audience Member 1]

Oh, my God.

[Audience Member 2]

Well, we are here to talk about love and money tonight, and I want to get a sense of who's in the room. So if you are in a relationship, let me hear you.

[Ryan]

Nice, nice.

[Audience Member 2]

And if you are single, let me hear you. Damn. Okay, after, this will be the singles mixer. If you grew up in a family that used the phrase, we can't afford it, let me hear you. Okay. And if you grew up in a family where you never talked about money, let me hear you. It's interesting. You can tell so much by just a few questions about how somebody grew up with money. It's so fascinating.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, by the way, do we have.

[Audience Member 2]

Anybody here who dragged their partner here? Anybody? Let me see your hands. Let me see.

[Audience Member 1]

Whoa.

[Audience Member 2]

Right in the front. Oh, my God. Let me go out on a limb and guess who's the person who dragged their partner? Yes. And do you listen to every. You binge the podcast, watch the Netflix show, read the book, tell him. Like, you gotta listen to this. Have you thought about that? Look at this. She's just smiling and she's covering her face. Now she's. Oh, my God. How did he know? And then this guy's like this. I hear him all the time in our house, and now I have to sit in the front row. This sucks. All right, well, one way or another, I'm glad you're here. All right. And we do get to talk about love and money. And the reason that I'm so. The reason I'm doing this is that I think most of us treat money passively. We sit back, we get a bill, and we just shrug and go, I guess I spent that much. And we see somebody on Instagram in Tahiti, and we go, must be nice. And that's pretty much the extent of our relationship with money. We feel bad about it once every four to six weeks, and then we paper over it and go back to life. I just think it's so much more fun to be active with money, don't you? To be able to design your rich life, to be able to set standards for what you want to do with money, and to use your money, whether you're solo or in a relationship, to create your rich life. It's awesome to read a blog or read a book about money, but I think it's way more fun to see how other people are treating their money, because I think there's something so magical about watching real people talk and share everything. When I started the podcast, we had to figure out how to convince people to share their numbers. And the way that we did it was just to tell them point blank, we're not here to. This is not a gotcha show. We're not here to trick you. We want you to share your real numbers because have you ever heard anyone else's real numbers? No. It's the most private thing there is. People talk about their sex lives. They'll talk about anything, but not how much debt they have. Definitely not how much income they have. That is why tonight you will all be revealing your income to me. No, what we are going to do, though, is we are going to. We're going to watch real people become active with their money. And I find it incredibly inspiring. So I'm coming out to the audience tonight. This isn't just a passive show where we sit and we hear something. That's not what I want to do. I want to make it active. I want to hear from you. I'm going to come out there. But we're also going to have couples Come up tonight, and they are going to share things that they have never shared before. Can you imagine the courage it takes to come in front of a crowd like this, hundreds of people, and share it all? I think it's pretty awesome. And for that reason, I would like you to get on your feet and welcome our first couple, Sophia and Charlie.

[Sophia]

I'm Sophia. I am 41, and I do cardiac ultrasounds.

[Audience Member 1]

My name is Charlie, I'm 40, and I'm a filmmaker.

[Sophia]

I'm like a science geeking person, so I do bid and numbers and science stuff, and he's an artist.

[Audience Member 1]

On the financial side, there can be some contention, but largely we really support each other's work.

[Sophia]

I am looking forward to figuring out how to collaborate with my husband about money.

[Audience Member 2]

You guys are the best. How you doing?

[Sophia]

Good.

[Audience Member 2]

All right. How you feeling about our conversation today?

[Sophia]

Terrified.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. How about you?

[Audience Member 1]

Yeah, I'm nervous.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. All right, well, first things first. We're all here for you, all right? That's the most important thing. I want to know your story. If you had to describe yourself, your relationship with money in a sentence, what would it be?

[Sophia]

Sophia, type A personality.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

Cool. Charlie.

[Audience Member 1]

Opportunistic, huh?

[Audience Member 2]

What's that?

[Audience Member 1]

When I see it arrive, I use it.

[Audience Member 2]

I love the charitable description of that. Opportunistic. What the. Okay, I'm with you. Okay, so who applied to speak to me?

[Sophia]

I did.

[Audience Member 2]

How come?

[Sophia]

Because I need someone else to give Charlie advice about money.

[Audience Member 2]

Oh, my God. So this is. You want me to come in and tell him she's right and you're wrong? Is that what you want? No.

[Megan]

No.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Sophia]

I have a lot to learn.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. All right. And Charlie, when you heard that Sophia applied, what was your reaction?

[Audience Member 1]

I mean, I was like, of course you did. But I also said I'm game. Like, I. At this point, I have, like, no pride around how I use money. I know that I have a lot to learn, and I'm excited to learn.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Audience Member 1]

So why not learn in front of a thousand people?

[Audience Member 2]

All right. So I heard that you bought a four wheeler recently when Sophia was out of town. Is that correct? What happened?

[Audience Member 1]

Well, it wasn't that recent, and I no longer have it, so let me just start with that. Okay. 20, 19, I think it was. She was in Florida. I was home alone, and I had some room on a credit card. And a wild idea that a four wheeler would benefit our family.

[Audience Member 2]

First of all, is a four wheeler like an ATV?

[Audience Member 1]

Yeah, a little one. It's only like a 200cc. Like, it was a small, little.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. All right. And you?

[Sophia]

Picture of a go kart of my daughter on a go kart and then on an atv, a four wheeler, and it was like, guess what happened?

[Audience Member 1]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

So you had room on your credit card. What does that mean?

[Audience Member 1]

Well, I had an available balance that was big enough to cover the purchase of that four wheeler.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, so she was out of town. So what did you do?

[Audience Member 1]

I mean, I bought it and I took it home. And I can't remember if I sent the picture that night or the next day, but it also then immediately turned into a phone call to explain myself.

[Audience Member 2]

You texted her a picture of this new four wheeler, and then she called you, like, within seconds?

[Audience Member 1]

I believe so. 2019.

[Audience Member 2]

That tracks. And what was the conversation like?

[Audience Member 1]

Well, so this was somewhat of a low time, maybe, in my life, and I purchased it emotionally. And she also knew the space that I was in, so I think she was like, are you okay? Like. And I'm like, yeah. You know, But I think she also, you know, knew the motivation behind it. A little bit of just, like, this might fill a void.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. Is that how you remember it, Sophia?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. All right. Okay. So why are we here today?

[Audience Member 1]

So from the very first time that we met, I always looked up to her as far as, like, how she used money. And, you know, she had a really good perspective on money. And I, like I said, have always used money as, like, oh, this is an opportunity for me to get from here to here. And I would just. I would use it. And saving was never something that I had learned about. And so she's been spending 10 years trying to teach me how to save money. And I just turned 40. She's 41. And now I'm like, oh, yeah, retirement actually is coming, and the future actually is going to happen. But I've always used money as if, like, Peter Pan syndrome. Like, I'm gonna be young forever.

[Audience Member 2]

And you said, I have a hard time holding on to my money.

[Audience Member 1]

True.

[Audience Member 2]

Right. And then you said this thing. I wasn't sure what it meant. I can't afford this lifestyle, but I'm married to you. What does that mean?

[Audience Member 1]

I mean, she can afford more kind of on a weekly basis. I also want to. I want to mention that I would like some advice on this, actually. But we keep our money completely separate, and we don't have any joint accounts. She wants me to be good at money because she's good at her money, and so we don't have any bridge financially.

[Audience Member 2]

Do you know why that is?

[Audience Member 1]

Well, she said flat out that she doesn't trust me with her money.

[Audience Member 2]

But how long have you been together?

[Audience Member 1]

Together for 10 years. We just celebrated our eight year anniversary a couple weeks ago.

[Audience Member 2]

Congratulations.

[Ramit Sethi]

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[Audience Member 2]

Does it concern you, like the fact that you integrate probably everything else, but not money. Does that set off red flags for you?

[Audience Member 1]

Sure, yeah. I mean, especially some downstream things when we are retired. She has a different life and vision than what I think I'm going to be able to afford. And I know that from looking at my tiny little IRA compared to what she accumulates with her employer. And she has what we call a real job. And I'm self employed and I make art for a living.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, all right.

[Audience Member 1]

For lack of better words, I'm a filmmaker.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, let me hear from you, Sophia. Why are we here?

[Sophia]

Yeah, I need to figure out how to communicate with Charlie about these things because I end up getting nervous to hurt his feelings or to say something that I'll regret, and then I don't say anything at all.

[Audience Member 2]

That's an example.

[Sophia]

We're supposed to be going on a trip, and what ends up happening is I end up booking my trip and then I'm like, okay, well, if you decide you have money to come and you want to come, then you book your trip.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. That's an interesting approach, right? Like with an intimate partner, like, hey, I booked mine. Yes, go ahead and do your thing if you can. And so does he end up coming?

[Sophia]

Sometimes.

[Audience Member 1]

Okay, can I mention that it's only for trips? When she goes to see her parents, when we do a vacation.

[Audience Member 2]

It'S so interesting.

[Audience Member 1]

She doesn't.

[Audience Member 2]

And then he never has the money. He's like, I just can't make it.

[Audience Member 1]

She doesn't treat our vacations that way, though.

[Audience Member 2]

Who pays for the vacations?

[Sophia]

I do.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, all right. Whoa.

[Ramit Sethi]

You can just feel the energy in the room right now. The laughter, the applause. The crowd is rooting for this couple. Now, it's one thing to listen to this show from your car or on your phone, but it's entirely another thing to be in a room full of people who want to learn about living a rich life. Nothing beats it. Nothing beats being in person. I would love to have you at the next event, so make sure you check out when I'm coming to your city this [e-mail] booktour when you talk.

[Audience Member 2]

About money, what happens?

[Sophia]

I just end up covering whatever needs to be covered.

[Audience Member 2]

No, not, not. What do you do? What happens when you talk about money? First of all, I assume you bring up money, correct?

[Sophia]

Sometimes Sometimes I just don't even bring it up at all because I don't. I don't even know where to go with it.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. And Charlie, do you ever bring money up?

[Audience Member 1]

Occasionally, but it. When, when it's a problematic thing, it's usually something that she brings up. If we dream up an idea, I'll start to break down like, well, what's something like that going to cost? And is that something that we can actually, you know, do but on a week to week basis? And the things that she buys, it's never a conversation until after she's bought it. And then she tells me, oh, by the way, I just spent $300 on groceries. And then I feel a pressure of like, am I supposed to pay half of that back? Or what am I supposed to do there? But the conversation doesn't continue. It's just like a lot of unspoken.

[Audience Member 2]

Things, don't you think? Yeah, the whole, like, if you can, if you have the money, go ahead, or, hey, I spent 300 bucks on groceries, dot, dot, dot. There's a lot unspoken in those three dots. Have you ever had a good conversation about money?

[Sophia]

Yes. We fixed up one of your credit cards to be 0% interest and set up a plan to pay it off.

[Audience Member 2]

We means who means?

[Sophia]

I saw it in the mail and I said, we are doing this.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, that's interesting.

[Audience Member 1]

I didn't argue, though. It was a good idea. Yeah. We consolidated, I think, three of my cards onto 10 APR for 18 months, and then I'm going to just.

[Audience Member 2]

That's not the point.

[Audience Member 1]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

The fact that you brought up his credit card and drove the fixing of it, don't you think that's more interesting than the apron?

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. You all want to recalibrate the dynamic of this money relationship?

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Audience Member 1]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. I think that a lot of couples have never had their first healthy, positive conversation about money. I think I've met couples who have been married 25 years. They never had one positive, healthy conversation about money. So what do you say? We're here. We got everybody here tonight. What do you say we just do it right now?

[Sophia]

Okay.

[Audience Member 2]

Let's do it on stage. Okay, so I call it your first positive money conversation. Now, let's just reframe this. All right, so first of all, let's just think about the psychology of talking about money. Charlie, when you think about talking about money, what's the first thing that comes to mind?

[Audience Member 1]

Scared.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. Yes. And Sophia.

[Sophia]

Saving.

[Audience Member 2]

Wow. Okay, good. I appreciate the honest answers. I think that a lot of times we have very high, emotionally loaded words that come along with the idea of talking about money. And that's because we have this deep down, this invisible script that we need to have the conversation about money. The conversation. Let's reframe it. We get to have lots of conversations about money. We're in no rush. We get to talk about this together for the rest of our lives. So the first one, the whole point is just for us to feel good. That's it. Okay. That's the. That's the mindset I want you going into this conversation with. Okay, let's do a quick lightning round. You can do this with your partner when you're having this conversation, but let's just do it right now. The lightning round is every person has, like, a list of things, or some people have a list of things they want to talk about about money. They just haven't brought it up. They don't know how to bring it up, et cetera. And it could be as small as. Like, what's this $16 charge at the gas station last Wednesday? It could be as big as. Will we have enough? So let's do a quick lightning round.

[Ramit Sethi]

With each of you.

[Audience Member 2]

Just brain dump. There's nothing too small or too big, just things you would eventually like to talk about. Go ahead, Sophia.

[Sophia]

First, can we travel for two years?

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Audience Member 1]

Is there a time where we can bridge our finances to some degree?

[Audience Member 2]

Great.

[Sophia]

When will your credit cards be paid off?

[Audience Member 1]

Think about it first. How much do you wish I made?

[Sophia]

How will we teach our kids about money?

[Audience Member 1]

How will we teach our kids about money? I want to replace.

[Audience Member 2]

Keep going.

[Sophia]

Will you end up with a retirement account?

[Audience Member 1]

Will you help me make a retirement account?

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. I like these questions. What do you notice as each of you is asking these questions? Maybe for the first time, I feel accusatory. Just asking them feels accusatory.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. What about you, Charlie?

[Audience Member 1]

I mean, I feel vulnerable. I feel like the last 10 years, this has always been a really vulnerable topic. And it's just like, well, I mean, I have a lot to offer, and I have a lot to bring to our relationship. And then I just know that I always come up so short here. So bringing it up is always like, a topic that's like, hmm, okay, well, you did it. Where's this gonna go?

[Audience Member 2]

You did it. I mean, both of you brought up questions that I suspect you've never even asked out loud before. Right? So already we're well ahead of where you've been. That's great, right? We don't need to answer every question. Often, if you're sitting down with your partner and you do this, you know, with lots of time, you can pick the one that is most important and you can start there. And usually those are questions like, what.

[Ramit Sethi]

Would it look like if we both.

[Audience Member 2]

Felt good about money? Just that, how can we talk to each other without fighting? How can I get you to be as active as I am with our finances? Or how do we teach our kids about money? All those things. Those are big, powerful questions. Okay, so I'm going to give you a little framework, three steps, and I'm going to make it really simple. Simple outline. And then we're going to do the conversation right now. So I'm going to give you a little outline.

[Ramit Sethi]

You can get this outline for the first positive conversation about money and other tools from my new book, Money for Couples, that comes out in January. To pre order it, go to iwt.com.

[Audience Member 2]

Moneyforcouples first step for your conversation is put all those questions aside. You know that each of you wants to talk about them. At some point you will, but not today. First question is why this meeting is going to be awesome. I want you to start there because so many of us approach money like, oh, God, we gotta talk about this thing now. Let's just reframe the whole thing. If we can choose how we're gonna feel about it, why don't we choose to feel good? So you might say something like, hey, I've been reading this book on money, and there's all these different ways we can talk about money, and we can actually save more money and spend more money on the things we love. So I'd like for each of you, that's my words. I would like for you, in your own words, to share with each other why this meeting is going to be awesome.

[Sophia]

The meeting will be awesome because we'll feel more connected and have a plan.

[Audience Member 1]

I feel like it will help us actualize our potential if we can get on the same page about money.

[Audience Member 2]

Good. Okay, great. Step one, check why this meeting is going to be awesome. Step two. Charlie, tell her how you feel about money. Today.

[Audience Member 1]

I feel a little bit like I'm in a tailspin. Although I will say I've regained control, but I'm approaching, you know, the ground and I'm trying to lift back up, but I. Charlie.

[Audience Member 2]

Yeah? I don't get it. Tell her how you feel.

[Audience Member 1]

Okay. I feel scared about money, but I also feel optimistic. Honestly, the times that we've spent listening to the podcast and watching the Netflix show has brought a lot of clarity to where you're coming from, and I just know that I have a lot to learn about how to invest, but I do feel scared.

[Audience Member 2]

Sophia, same question. How do you feel about money today?

[Sophia]

I feel like I always want to save it, and I think that I'm nervous that if you don't start trying to save it or acknowledge it, then I am going to be like a money hoarder and never spend it, because I'm trying to balance your lackadaisical attitude about the future.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, it's honest. Last question. How do you want to feel about money this time? Sophia? First.

[Sophia]

I want to just be on the same page and have a plan that we're both sorry.

[Audience Member 2]

That's not a feeling.

[Sophia]

I don't want to feel like a hoarder about money. I want to be able to enjoy it and spend it on things that I enjoy.

[Audience Member 2]

What's that feeling? You want to feel content?

[Sophia]

I don't know. Yeah, content.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. Charlie.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 1]

I want to feel excited about money, and I want to feel like we're in control.

[Audience Member 2]

I think that that was a really good first conversation about money has no numbers. It's all about, where are we today? Take an honest stock. Where do we want to go? And then there's plenty and plenty of time for you to explore all those questions that you talked about. I'd like for you to continue on with this conversation, and I'd love for you to report back to me in a week, let me know where that conversation has evolved.

[Sophia]

Okay, Sounds good.

[Audience Member 2]

All right, let's give him a round of applause. Sophia and Charlie, thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you, sir. Wow. Let's give it up again. Sophia and Charlie, thanks for coming out. That takes a lot of courage. Okay, how did that compare to conversations that you have had about money? What did you notice there? Just shout it out. No numbers. All the nerds in the room are like, but where is the fixed cost ratio? Freaking nerds. Can't put your spreadsheet away. What? The irony is that I'm that guy, too. Like, I love. I love calculating this stuff, but I have to put it away sometimes, too. What else did you notice? Feelings. A lot of feelings. In fact, at one point, I said, you know, what do you want to feel? And the answer was, I want to have a plan. But that's not a feeling. We have to remember that no matter.

[Ramit Sethi]

How analytical you are or no matter.

[Audience Member 2]

How frustrated you are, we're trying to start with these powerful visions and feelings because trust me, you're going to forget about 3.68% two weeks from now. But you won't forget. We both want to take our kids to Mexico and we want to do a salsa making class. And that is why we are increasing our savings rate. That's a powerful vision and those feelings come right along with it. Okay. I love seeing couples having these conversations. You can see that it's hard and you slip back into old patterns and a lot of it isn't clean. It's not like the movies where everyone says everything crisply. But to me, that's the beautiful part.

[Ramit Sethi]

That's real.

[Audience Member 2]

It's how we actually talk when the doors are closed. So I just, I love seeing it and I want to keep going. I want to now bring out our next couple. You're going to love them.

[Ramit Sethi]

We'll bring them out on stage right after this word from our sponsors. If you've been listening, you know that I recommend your fixed costs should be between 50 to 60% of your take home pay. And often when I talk to couples who are stressed about money, it's because their fixed costs are too high. 70%, 84%. One couple even had 125% of their take home pay going to monthly fixed costs. Now if you feel like you make good money but you're not sure where it all goes, you probably need to bring your fixed costs down. And one of the biggest no brainers is with your wireless bill. With Mint Mobile, it's easy to get wireless for $15 a month with the purchase of a three month plan. And my team even tested it out. It's super easy. Go on their website, pick your plan, activate it in minutes including using your existing number and phone. To get started, go to mintmobile.com ramit there you'll see that right now all three month plans are only $15 a month including the unlimited plan. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Find out how easy it is to switch to Mint mobile and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your three month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month. Go to mint mobile.com ramit that's mint mobile.com ramit cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mint mobile.com ramit $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional Taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Do you have a loved one who speaks a different language? What if this holiday season, you could connect more deeply with them by speaking their language? Well, with Babbel you can. With quick 10 minute lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts, Babbel gets you speaking a new language in three weeks. And because talking is the key to really knowing a language, Babbel is designed for real conversation. Their tips and tools are inspired by the real life stuff you'll actually encounter when speaking the language. For example, if I were going on a trip to Italy over the holidays, how great would it be to order coffee in Italian? And that's what you get with babbel. Because their lessons are rooted in real life conversations, not random words. You can actually learn useful phrases like asking for directions or ordering a meal. With over 16 million subscriptions sold, Babbel's 14 award winning language courses are backed by a 20 day money back guarantee. So your gift to yourself or your loved ones is risk free. Browse More than 20,000 classes offered every month. And here's a special holiday deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our [e-mail] Ramit get up to 60% [e-mail] RamIT spelled B A B B E L.com Ramit rules and restrictions may apply. Now back to our event in Seattle.

[Audience Member 2]

I'd love for you to get on your feet for Megan and Ryan, come on out.

[Megan]

I am Megan. I'm 37 and I'm a dentist.

[Ryan]

I'm Ryan, I'm 36 and I'm a software engineering manager.

[Megan]

My husband had already been implementing many of the things since 2009. I don't automate. I have a thing about trusting the robots, so I do everything manually.

[Ryan]

We really do have some difficulties discussing money when we disagree about the approach. I'm hoping to kind of get more on the same page there and learn ways to talk about it that are, you know, make us happier instead of frustrated.

[Megan]

I'm nervous that I have some family in the audience, so I'm a little anxious to see what happens after this.

[Audience Member 2]

How you doing?

[Ryan]

Good.

[Audience Member 2]

Welcome. How's it going?

[Ryan]

I'm excited to be here.

[Megan]

These are bright lights.

[Audience Member 2]

How you feeling about our conversation?

[Megan]

I'm a little nervous.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. Nervous?

[Ryan]

Yeah. I don't know what we're gonna talk about.

[Audience Member 2]

So who wanted to speak to me today? You did. Okay. Okay. Well, we'll get to It. Let's see if I say the word money. What is the first word that comes to mind for you?

[Megan]

Exhausted.

[Audience Member 2]

Wow. Okay.

[Ryan]

Protective.

[Audience Member 2]

Interesting. Exhausted and protective.

[Ryan]

Yep.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, interesting. Let me learn a little bit more about you, Megan. I hear that you love a great deal.

[Megan]

Yes.

[Audience Member 2]

Tell me about when you decided to buy a bike for your son.

[Megan]

So we have a three and a half year old son, and he was ready for a pedal bike. And I was spiraling between a $250 bike versus a $500 bike, which is very expensive for a toddler. I decided on the 250, but I decided to see if I could find a used one. And we had several arguments about Ryan would rather just click buy it online full price and get over it. And I messaged some people on OfferUp and Facebook Marketplace and did all that. And finally, I did get a deal, and I did find it used.

[Audience Member 2]

How long did it take you?

[Megan]

Well, from the first conversation to purchasing, 12 hours. But I was spiraling between the two brands.

[Audience Member 2]

You did that all in 12 hours?

[Megan]

I did everything for about two weeks. And then once I actually found it, I got it in 12 hours.

[Audience Member 2]

Oh, okay. Okay. Interesting answer. All right. And then, Ryan, you like to just click it and buy. Is that right?

[Ryan]

So, yeah, I just. I think a lot before I decide to buy something, and then once I've decided to buy it, I'm just like, I'm just gonna get it right now. I'm gonna be done with it. I don't want to think about it anymore. And so, like, she was talking about, and we're like, we went back and forth on different bikes, brands for a couple of days, couple of weeks, and I was like, can we please just buy a bike? I really don't care which one anymore.

[Audience Member 2]

Right. Okay. What do you say we take a look at your numbers? All right, let's put them up on screen. So let's see here. We have a net worth of $4.2 million. First of all, look at that income as well. Damn. Give it up. Nice work. You guys look pretty young for this net worth. Oh, we are in Seattle. Never mind. All right, first of all, congratulations. That's awesome.

[Ryan]

Thank you.

[Audience Member 2]

How does it feel to see those numbers up on screen?

[Megan]

To be honest, I didn't know it was that number until about three months ago. We keep everything separate.

[Ryan]

Why not anymore?

[Megan]

No, our accounts are still separate. But I was watching an episode of Shark Tank, and they were talking about prenups, and I finally said I made a spreadsheet of all the accounts I believed he had. I said, you need to fill in the blanks once a month. So we started filling in the blanks once a month and each month it just keeps getting higher.

[Audience Member 2]

Wait, okay. I mean, that's usually how it works, right?

[Megan]

And the stock market's been really hot. It's. I was very shocked at these numbers and us combined.

[Audience Member 2]

How much did you think you had?

[Megan]

I knew how much I had with about a million and he had a lot more.

[Ryan]

And yeah, we had talked about it a little bit and you know, I had told her that, you know, I think I had about 2 million and she had 1 million and then we had, you know, a house and we're like, okay, well that's a about 4. But until we did this and you see all those numbers there, it really didn't sink in.

[Audience Member 2]

Well, it's very impressive. It doesn't surprise me that you didn't know 50% of the couples I talked to don't even know their household income, which is mind blowing, but that's the facts. Doesn't surprise me. Kind of surprising that you haven't combined your income or your finances. Why was that?

[Megan]

So we keep things separate. For one, I think it's easy. And two, I have a little bit of a pride issue knowing that I'm bringing in lesser income. And so I want to know that all my income, I earned it because once it's combined, once our payrolls are combined, it's hard to say who earned what.

[Ryan]

And we do have a joint account that we pay all of our like, family expenses out of. So we have joined it to that sense. And yeah, all of our mortgage and trips and all of the things that we do together, we do all pay for that out of the same account that we share.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, I want to know how you got here. How did you get to these numbers?

[Ryan]

Right, yeah, so I'm a software engineer. So the very first job I got out of college, I was making more money than both of my parents combined. I was making $80,000 a year. And I was like, this is the best thing ever.

[Audience Member 2]

Woohoo.

[Ryan]

And so I did that for several years and it came to a point where I was talking to kind of a startup and they were like, hey, we want you to come. And I thought it was a little risky, but I was like, well, they got some good RSUs that might work out for us. I took that job and we eventually did go public and those were our best earning years. And so definitely the way I've always said it is, we didn't make enough to retire, but it was a really good paycheck. But I've been consistently getting more and more income until actually the last couple of years, I took a job that was a little bit lower paying because I thought it'd be more fun.

[Audience Member 2]

Cool. Well, congratulations. Thank you. That's amazing.

[Megan]

I'm a dentist, and so I spent eight years in school. So when I graduated, and I've always had a very frugal mindset, and then I graduated, I was really set on paying off all my debt. So I paid it off within three years. And then. And then I met Ryan. And we've just never stopped being frugal. But we still, you know, we live in Seattle, we still travel, we have a kid. So I'm not saying that we're not eating rice and beans, but we're also not going to Michelin restaurants, you know, on every trip.

[Ryan]

Okay, just some trips. Just a trip. When we met, she was actually living in the basement room with a friend of hers who had a family. So she was living with a family, you know, with husband, wife, two kids in the basement room paying $600 a month just so she could save more money and pay off all those loans.

[Audience Member 2]

Wow. What do you think about that?

[Megan]

I'm still glad I did it. And after I paid off my loans, the next day, I had $200 in bank account, and I went and got a BMW. And I will do it again.

[Audience Member 2]

What? Is this for real?

[Megan]

Because I knew once I wasn't making $5,000 student loan payment. That.

[Audience Member 2]

No, I don't mind that, but why'd you get a BMW?

[Ramit Sethi]

Because car sucks.

[Megan]

It was awesome. It was fast, and I just. I loved it.

[Audience Member 2]

How often do you still have it?

[Megan]

No, because we moved downtown and we were walking to work, so I didn't need to pay for that.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

Did you park diagonally when you had the BMW?

[Megan]

Just tell the truth. I parked in the lines.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, fine. I believe you. I believe you. All right. Ryan, I heard that you had your finances all automated per. I will teach you to be rich. Everything was flowing the way it's supposed to flow, like a. Like a beautiful painting. And then I heard that, Megan, you unautomated the finances. Is that true?

[Megan]

No. So I don't touch his. I don't automate mine. I'm manual.

[Audience Member 2]

Huh? Why? Wait, wait, I want to hear why it's manual.

[Megan]

Because I.

[Audience Member 2]

Why does a dentist have manual?

[Megan]

I don't trust the robots.

[Audience Member 2]

Huh?

[Megan]

I don't trust automatic withdrawals because I like to See the bill to catch any fraudulent charges before paying it.

[Audience Member 2]

Like, how often does a fraudulent charge happen?

[Megan]

I've seen a couple on, like, my garbage utility bill. They'll charge me for extra garbage. I'll call and complain and they'll take it off.

[Audience Member 2]

What's your income?

[Megan]

A lot.

[Audience Member 2]

A lot, right?

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

I don't know what the breakdown is, but it's like it's a high income. Okay. So you unautomated your finances. You manually, like contribute or you pay your bills every single month. How long does that take you when.

[Megan]

The email comes in? Here's the bill. Probably from getting the email to paying it. 60 seconds.

[Audience Member 2]

That's pretty fast.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

Do you think that. Do you like what Ryan does with automating his stuff?

[Megan]

No, because I know he's not checking for fraud on his credit card.

[Audience Member 2]

Fair. Right. Fair. Okay.

[Ryan]

I don't.

[Audience Member 2]

So I wanted to. I love you too. The reason. The reason I really like. I mean, I love every couple that I speak to. And I brought you on because, you know, for a lot of folks, especially young folks, It's. To have $4 million is quite unusual. Okay. I think we all have to acknowledge that. But at the same time, you are providing a crystal ball into what will happen for us. Maybe not 4 million. Maybe it's half of that, Whatever the number is. But the idea, if you invest consistently and you. And you have a high income and you save and invest a lot, you're.

[Ramit Sethi]

Going to have money.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. You just happen to do it really young, which is awesome, but some of us is going to take longer. It doesn't matter. So what happens when we have that much money? Do we still live in a $600 a month basement? Probably not. I know. I doubt you're living there now, but what needs to change for us? I wanted to run a little calculation because I think you might be playing a little small. Do you think that's possible?

[Megan]

I told you he was going to say that.

[Ryan]

She did. And I told her she'd be excited.

[Megan]

That you'd say yes. I know. These last few weeks, I've been binging all the podcasts. I've realized I need to live a richer life.

[Audience Member 2]

Oh.

[Megan]

So I have purchased some things, full price, recently.

[Audience Member 1]

Wow.

[Audience Member 2]

Tell us, Tell us. Tell the crowd. What'd you get? Wow.

[Megan]

I bought some Birkenstocks and I didn't wait for the Nordstrom anniversary sale.

[Audience Member 2]

Keep going.

[Megan]

I bought my kid a $70 helmet, which. That's a solid helmet.

[Ryan]

We spend almost as much on the helmet as the Bike.

[Megan]

Yeah. And I have this rich life vision of bringing friends and family down to cabo for our 40th birthday.

[Audience Member 2]

I like that. All right, all right. All those. I love it. I love those. Do you know how much money you will have?

[Megan]

I run some calculators, but the question is, we got here based on full time work.

[Audience Member 2]

Yeah.

[Megan]

I am no longer a full time dentist, and Ryan took a lower paying job. So how do we continue this path with everything much lower in income?

[Audience Member 2]

Well, I'll show you. I ran the math. All right, all right. So hold on. I just. I'm struck that you have $4 million at such a young age. And I'm like, you know, you're going to have a lot of. You already have a lot of money, first of all. That's so obvious. But I go, you're going to have a lot more money. And your first response was, yeah, but we might not be working full time. That's very interesting. I think you've already won the game of money. I think that the things you have done have brought you to a place that most people would love to be in. And I think it's probably time to turn the page and look at the next chapter of your life. And that is because at age 65, you will have $29 million. What do you think about that?

[Megan]

Based on what income? Because we're not going to work together.

[Audience Member 2]

I'll show you. I'll show you based on what income. In fact, I assume you basically contribute almost nothing to your investments. I assumed that you will contribute about $18,000 a year, so some small amount for the income that you're currently making. And at 7%, you'll have $29.4 million at age 65. Got real quiet in here.

[Ryan]

I laugh about it a little bit because, yes, I did take a lower paying job. It still pays $300,000 a year. Like, it's fine.

[Audience Member 2]

We're going to be fine.

[Ryan]

We're going to be fine.

[Audience Member 2]

Oh, my God. All right, well, I love Seattle. Okay, here's what we're gonna do. You guys, you won the game of money, and that's really hard because you've been like, you've been grinding so hard that it's actually become part of the identity. Right. I think especially for you, Megan. I think it comes out in ways like with the bike. And I think that's what Ryan is saying. It's not that you don't recognize that a $500 bike for a little kid is a lot of money. That is a lot of money. Probably none of us got that kind of bike when we were kids. But there's also a point where you decide intentionally what I was doing in the past. I'm not going to do it anymore, even though I could. And I'm really good at it because it makes me play small and I have a much bigger life to play for. Okay, $29 million, essentially, letting that money just grow. Let's do a little exercise because I want. I want to actually, I want you to feel it and I want to experience what you're both thinking. We're going to do something called Rich Life. Fill in the blanks.

[Ramit Sethi]

Let's take a quick pause to support our sponsors. When you think of someone wealthy, what do you picture? A lot of people think about fancy cars, traveling on a yacht, etc. But actually lots of people who listen to this podcast are going to be millionaires or even multimillionaires. These are people who have a full time job and they simply invest automatically every single month. That is really how most real wealth is created and these things that you are spending so much time building are worth protecting. One way you can do that is to make sure you have an estate plan now which will give you peace of mind for you and for your loved ones. With trust and will you can create a custom estate plan starting at just $199. Go to trustandwill.com ramit for 10% off plus free document shipping now. My coworker recently created a will for her and her family on Trust and will and here's what she said. Quote it was incredibly easy and straightforward. In less than an hour it produced a will, power of attorney documents, last will and testaments, and HIPAA authorizations. I can download these docs and have them executed or hire an attorney to look over them for me. Now I personally used an attorney for my own estate plan, but I recognize not everyone has access to an estate lawyer. If that's you, Trust and will can be a great option. Keep your family prepared and protected by managing your will or trust online. Each will or trust is state specific and customized to your needs, so ensure your family and loved ones avoid lengthy, expensive legal proceedings or let the state decide what happens to your assets. Trust and Will has an overall rating of Excellent with thousands of five star reviews on trustpilot and is used by hundreds of thousands of families. Secure your assets and protect your loved ones with trust and will. Get 10% off plus free shipping of your estate plan documents by visiting trustandwill.com Rameet that's 10% off and free [e-mail] Ramit welcome back. Let's keep going here. I'm about to take Megan and Ryan through an exercise I call Rich Life Fill in the blanks, which I wrote in my new book, Money for Couples. And it helps couples create a shared financial vision together. If you want to try it with your partner, you can pre order the [e-mail] moneyforcouples okay.

[Audience Member 2]

And I'm going to ask you just lightning round to fill in the blanks to these questions. Just answer whatever comes to mind. First, there's no right or wrong answer, but we'll go Megan, then Ryan on each of these questions. Okay, Megan. I wish we could spend more money on hotels. Whoa. Good answer.

[Ryan]

Okay, Ryan, plane tickets. First house. Plane tickets would be nice.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, great. My dream vacation is Tahiti.

[Ryan]

Vietnam. She's. She's Vietnamese. We wanted to go to Vietnam before COVID We never got to. That's my dream vacation. Oh, wow.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. Love that. If I could hire a coach for anything, it would be for.

[Megan]

Dancing.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Ryan]

I was just saying that I need a personal trainer because I'm getting a little chunky.

[Audience Member 2]

Awesome. Okay. If I had $100 to improve my life, I would get.

[Megan]

My hair done.

[Audience Member 2]

Nice.

[Ryan]

I don't know. Like, one of the things that we actually struggle with is, like, I feel really content with our life, and I like what we do. And so sometimes she's like, well, we need to do something with it. I'm like, I don't know what to do with it.

[Audience Member 2]

She says that?

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

Really?

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

That surprises me.

[Megan]

In this last month, I started saying, we need to do something.

[Audience Member 2]

Thank you for clarifying. I was about to have to dive in, but now it all makes sense again. Gotcha. Okay, so. But that's a real point. You're like, hey, I'm happy, right? Sure. I could get a trainer and we can take a few trips. Yes. Okay. But let's keep talking. $100 to improve your life. You're kind of stumped on that one.

[Ryan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, fine. How about a thousand.

[Megan]

Private Chef?

[Ryan]

That's a good thought. Yeah, no, see, I like cooking, so I'd probably just buy kitchen gadgets with it instead.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. Wouldn't it be cool if we did blank together?

[Ryan]

Honestly, this was a really exciting opportunity. We appreciate you bringing us on, but I like to do things like this that we don't get opportunities to, so I don't know what that would be. But finding ways that we can do cool things together that aren't always available to everybody.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. A little bit more exclusive, maybe not off the beaten path.

[Ryan]

A little more. A little more vip, okay.

[Audience Member 2]

Yeah. I like it.

[Megan]

And, you know, next week we're celebrating our five year wedding anniversary, and we're going to a very fancy spa. So that's something that I'm very excited about.

[Audience Member 2]

Awesome. How do you. You both seem to light up when I'm asking these questions, which surprises me in a really positive way, because sometimes when we have these ghosts in our head about money, like, oh, my God, if I'm talking about wanting to do this, then that means I have to spend money on it. But that doesn't seem to be the case for either of you. You're both, like, totally playing ball here. What is that?

[Megan]

This is as of the last month.

[Audience Member 2]

What would it have been before?

[Megan]

So prior? I used to be frustrated because Ryan acts like money grows off of trees, because for him, it has essentially, in the tech industry, he started in the right time. For me, it hasn't. And it's always been a grind for me. And so the conversations would always be contentious. He'd always say, we're so rich. We're so rich. And I didn't believe him because I didn't have access to his accounts because I didn't feel I was rich. And since I've had this spreadsheet, I can actually say yes, I agree.

[Audience Member 2]

Wow.

[Megan]

And now I have a third party validating that.

[Audience Member 2]

And so do you feel it?

[Megan]

I feel a little lighter when I buy things full price and not have to wait for a sale.

[Audience Member 2]

Yeah. I mean, we all joke about, you know, getting something on sale or whatever, but if, as you said, you've had to grind and you've had to work really hard for money, that becomes like, you can't imagine life where you just go to the store, see something, and buy it. It's impossible to imagine. My family, we used to spend five days buying a car. We would go there, negotiate, walk out, go back the next day like it was. There's no. People walk in and buy a car. I'm like, that's insane.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 2]

So I totally get it. But I also get that it's probably time to turn the page. And actually buying a $70 bike helmet is probably the smallest of the changes you're going to make in the next.

[Ramit Sethi]

One to two years.

[Audience Member 2]

Would that be fair to say?

[Megan]

Yes. And I don't plan to go blow the money on a house in Seattle.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Megan]

So it's hard for Me to think we have the house, we have all of our essentials. So really, I feel it's going to be the travel that's going to kind of step it up. A game.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay.

[Ryan]

Yeah, it's. I do feel a little weird because I feel like, you know, Seattle, like, yes, we have lots of money. Lots of people in Seattle have lots of money. There are things, like houses that are still really hard. It's a weird middle ground to be in for some things.

[Audience Member 2]

Yeah, well, middle ground compared to, like, hundred millionaire. But, yeah, I get it. Like, I live in a very expensive area, and you can buy a house. You could buy a house, but you go, do we want to. Are there other things? I get it. These are decisions that are not really talked about publicly, but that's why I'm glad to be shining a light on them today. Okay. So hearing your answers, the thing that I heard that both of you got excited about was, I want to do. I wish we could spend more money on hotels and airplanes, rides. Okay. I love both of those things. So paint a picture for me. You have a very high income. I think your fixed costs are like 29% or something, right? Super low. It's like, whoa, what does it look like? The next trip you take? Paint the picture for me.

[Ryan]

We've talked about two and so over Christmas, we want to go somewhere warm.

[Audience Member 2]

Where?

[Ryan]

Probably Costa Rica. So we're thinking beach. Beach in Costa Rica and visit the rainforest and, you know, take. Take our son out and let him see a new culture and try to get him, like, he's just old enough that we can maybe take him on some hikes and stuff. So I'm super excited about that. And then we talked about, like, we want to go to Vietnam next April.

[Audience Member 2]

What could you do to make one of those trips or both?

[Ramit Sethi]

Absolutely magical.

[Megan]

I think. Upping up the lodging.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. Where do you want to stay?

[Megan]

I don't know. Just a little fancier than we've been, you know, I mean, we went to Paris over spring break and we still spent 500 a night, so maybe we spend a little more.

[Audience Member 2]

Yeah, I think it's. It's less about how much you can spend as much as you want. But I always start with, like, what's the vision? So for me, if I'm taking a trip and finally both of us are a little bit more inclined on the same page, we're like, hey, we don't. The first question we ask about these things in our life does not have to be about cost. Then what do we want to get out of this trip. So sometimes when my wife and I are traveling, we're like, we feel like doing an adventure trip. We've done a lot of sitting on a beach type thing. We want to be active, so we're in the world. What does that look like? What's it going to be then? On the other times we're like, we want to relax. That means we're going to a resort that's totally, like, away from everything and we're crafting an experience that's like putting together a meal like you like to cook. You're putting together a meal that's emotional. What's the first course? What's it going to feel like at the end when you surprise them with xyz? Notice, I'm not talking about numbers, because honestly, there's any. Any hotel you choose, you can afford it. So can you give me that? What would it be like in Vietnam?

[Megan]

We want to stay in the nice resort, but we want to eat local food. So that means you're going to have to take a taxi in and out. Yeah. Beach. I don't. I've already been, so I don't really need to go see all the temples, but I know Ryan would like to, so we can do a few. But for me, it's just beach and culture. The struggle is with a three and a half year old. There's a lot of. We can't go to all the bougie resorts because a lot of those are adults only. And then, you know, flights. I don't even know if they let him in first class. So there are some with the kids. We can't just live super carefree.

[Ryan]

Her friend did tell us about a trip that they took recently and her husband found, like an Airbnb in Bali. They came with a private chef and came with a driver, and they basically got a very private experience compared to another place they went where they were like, well, we stayed in the resort and it was fine, but that house was amazing. And I was like, that's great. I would like to learn more about that, please.

[Audience Member 2]

I like it. So this is what I want everyone to understand. Of course it has to do with how much money you have, but we could craft a magical experience if you had much less money. Okay. Meaning does not necessarily have to come from net worth. My parents created meaning for us, and I'm sure all of our parents did with way less money than you have. If it were me just talking about how I would do it with a three and a half year old, I Would definitely get great seats on the airplane. I would have car service from our house. It starts in our driveway. Car service from the airport. Somebody waiting for us when we got there. We. I mean, if you have the ability or there's somebody in your family you want to bring with you who can also help for a couple of days, I would bring them with no questions. Boom. They're coming along. They also should get time to go and. And check things out in Vietnam as well. If you like food, I would have a food tour set up. I would have lots of downtime. Totally inexpensive, just hanging at the hotel, whatever. I would have a photographer because. Is it your son? He's only gonna be this age right now. I would have a photographer with us for a half day. Boom. Capture all these amazing memories. So all these things, they're actually not that expensive individually, but it's really thinking about, what can we do, because we're not bound only by cost. What would it look like if we looked back on this five or 10 years later? We were like, that trip was actually easy. Even though we had a little one with us, There was always water available for us, even though it was hot. Everything was taken care of, and we got to explore these amazing places. That's what I'm looking for for you. All right, here's what I want you to do. I have to say, I love your vision. I do think that your big challenge with money will be now to think bigger. Personally, I think there's some clues that come up for me, like the automating or un. Automating. I mean, it's totally up to you. I'm glad that you're thinking about combining. I think that's good. I think that's definitely good. I do think automating and unautomating is a big. It sets my antenna off. Because people who do things manually with their money, they tend to play small. Like, I never hear someone who is checking every single credit card transaction, who's then able to move and start talking about, this is what I want to do with my rich life. They're stuck in the weeds. And I would really encourage you to move up, because you should be operating like a $29 million couple. That would be my wish for you. My suggestion. Pick the thing you're most excited about, which seems like the travel. Come up with a vision and then write me back in a week and.

[Ramit Sethi]

Send me what it is you're going to do.

[Audience Member 2]

I would love to hear back from you. Okay. All right. Thank you both. It was great. To meet you. Let's give them a round of applause. You guys are awesome. Thank you very much. All right, let's give it up. Whoa. First of all, that was a lot of money. That was a lot of money. So that was a $29 million couple. You just, you know, it's like a turkey dinner. You just put it in. You need a little bit of time. You need a little bit of time for that money to turn into millions and millions. But guess what? Whether it's millions or whether it's. You're starting out with your investing journey today. If you consistently invest and you give it time, you. You will end up with more than you ever thought. And that's the staggering part about things like compound interest. And that's also why, when we talk about money with a partner, if you're on the same page, if you're rowing in the same direction, you can get there so much faster. That couple. What I like is that, first of all, you just never hear from a couple who has that much money, like, ever. Right. When was the last time you heard how a couple like that talks? And even though you may have a really high dual income, you don't necessarily automatically see eye to eye. And I kind of like that. It's the same. The same dynamics come out, regardless of income level. Of course, there are some differences. I noticed that nobody gets motivated by tiny little dreams. I'm trying to paint a vivid picture. What did you notice of the things that. When I asked them what would get you excited, what did you notice about their answers? What did you notice? Comfort. Comfort. Yeah. A lot of it was not super fancy, nor does it have to be. It was like, yeah, we'd like a nicer hotel. Kind of stumped at what you would spend an extra hundred dollars on. Like, for me, actually, this is what I want to do. I'm going to tell you what I would do to spend money to make my life better. And then I'm coming out to you because I want to hear what you would do. If you gave me 100 bucks, I would probably get an extra portable charger and just, like, put it. I have two separate bags. I want to put one in each bag. That's it. If you gave me more, I would probably. Well, I recently gave myself a milestone, and I hit this financial milestone. And my gift to myself was, from now on, any hotel I stay in, I can stay in any room at the hotel, like, any level. And for me, I love hotels. That's like one of my things for other people they're like, that's stupid. Who cares? I don't care about the room. For me, that's incredibly meaningful to have the freedom to do that. It might be for you. If I go out to a restaurant, I can order any dish that I like that. If you're a foodie, that's your thing. Amazing. I love the idea of a milestone, of having something to work towards. So I'm coming out to you now. Let's bring the lights up. I want to hear my question for you is what would you use either $100 or $1,000 to make your life better? Who's got one? Just raise your hand. I'm coming to you. Yes, you are. First, 100 or 1,000, tell us your name. Ratchet. And a hundred dollars would be a cleaning service, so I don't waste time every week. And $1,000 is going to be a phone that has battery that lasts more than four hours. Very nice. I like it. Thank you very much. Who else has got one? Yes, I'm coming to you. All right, 100 or 1,000 or both? A hundred dollars, I would have someone.

[Megan]

Mow our lawn so my husband doesn't.

[Audience Member 2]

Have to do it because I won't.

[Megan]

And 1000, I would hire someone to do all of our lawn care forever.

[Audience Member 2]

Whoa. Okay, Very nice. Thank you very much. Yes.

[Megan]

100 would be new nails. And 1,000 would upgrade our flights to Japan.

[Audience Member 2]

Nice. Okay, I like these answers. I'm coming back over here, and then I'm coming up here. If I see some hands. Yes.

[Ryan]

$100, I'd give a good tip.

[Audience Member 2]

And $1,000, I would go and change somebody else's life. I like that. Nice.

[Megan]

New CrossFit shoes.

[Audience Member 2]

Very nice. I like it. Who else? Let's hear. Yes.

[Megan]

Hi, my name is Suyi. $100. I would probably upgrade my seats on.

[Ryan]

My flight as well tomorrow.

[Megan]

And $1,000 I would contribute to my Eros tour fund. Particip.

[Audience Member 2]

You know what? Does anyone have what they would do with $10,000 more? Whoa. Hand went up really fast over here. Okay, let's hear it.

[Megan]

Pay off student loans.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay, I appreciate that. Yes. Over here. 10,000. And if somebody wants to give even a crazier number, I'm all ears. I'd buy a car to rent on Turo. All right. I like it. An investment. Okay. Anything else? Anything else for 10,000? Yes. I feel like an auctioneer. Fly private everywhere with our dog. Okay. All right. So what do you notice about these answers? First of all, I noticed they are super diverse. I noticed that they cluster around. What. What are the patterns? Travel. What else? Experiences. Yes. What else? Yeah, yeah. Making life easier. Which is. Which is one money dial. Convenience. Nothing wrong with that. That's my personal money dial. I love it. I think when we start thinking at this level, whether we are solo or with a partner, we start to realize that, wow, there's a couple of ideas that would provide irrational happiness to us. Right? Like for some of us. For me, it's the hotel thing. I just love it. I love it. For other people, it's.

[Ramit Sethi]

New kitchen.

[Audience Member 2]

Okay. New kitchen. Yes. Well, that is like 99% of America. Their happiest moment ever is it's not getting married, it's not having kids, it's renovating. Weird. So weird to me. But God bless. But what occurs to me, after you kind of have a framework to look at these things through, after you learn that you can take an active role in your money, that you don't just have to wait passively, and after you learn how to connect like we saw today with both couples, what I have seen over and over again is couples or individuals start going, okay, I'm going to do that check. I'm going to do that check now what? And we realize that we have never thought deeply about what we want in our rich life. Like when you actually open up the possibility of, okay, we can order any appetizer we want because we, you know, we save aggressively, we spend extravagantly on the things we love. And you get all your automation in order, and maybe you pay off your debt and you get there and you're like, okay, what now? What's the purpose of all this? And you start checking a couple things off, and you start to realize, oh, my God, we need to get more creative, because we didn't realize how far we can go with this. That is what I want to show you. I want to show you how vivid and how specific you can be with your rich life and sometimes how you have to first have that first positive money conversation. My wish for you tonight, after watching these couples and after listening to how I talk about money, whether it's on my show or podcast, is for you to realize that you're an active driver in your rich life, that nobody's coming to save you. It's you and maybe your partner. It's one or two of you, and that if you get this right, you can have more fun than you ever thought possible. So I have one favor to ask. After tonight. Go home, think about what you would do with a hundred dollars $1,000, $10,000, whatever number is appropriate for you and.

[Ramit Sethi]

Send me a note.

[Audience Member 2]

You can send it to me on any platform. Just send me a note with the vivid, specific thing that you want to do. That's all I want to know. That will tell me that you took the lessons from today and you're starting to apply them to your rich life. Thank you for coming out tonight. I love you, Seattle. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a good night. Thank you.

[Ramit Sethi]

I did hear back from Megan and Ryan recently and here's what they shared. Thank you for speaking with us on stage in Seattle. Our biggest takeaways were that our net worth in 20 years will be way more than we'll know how to spend. And a lot of our fights over money were three dollar questions and we're not dreaming big enough. We can do more with our money and our rich life now rather than waiting for our wealth to continue to accumulate. The day after being on stage, Megan took a page out of my book and went on a shopping spree at Nordstrom with a personal stylist. She didn't look at price tags. She purchased several outfits that made her feel great. These were outfits she wouldn't have considered if she'd focused on price. It was an amazing experience. We booked trips to Costa Rica and Vietnam that we mentioned on stage. We also added a trip to Disneyland with Megan's family. We planned specific experiences like the hanging bridges and ATVs on the beach in Costa Rica and and we booked accommodations that will create amazing memories. We've been able to talk about money with less frustrations and disagreements. We're trying to focus on the $30,000 questions instead of the $3 questions. Ryan spent some guilt free money on an outrageous costume for a work event.

[Audience Member 2]

And there were no fights over it.

[Ramit Sethi]

We've been investing for 10 years and we're proud and surprised of the progress we've made so far. We're figuring out what our rich life means for us and our child. One current conversation is how to teach money skills to our toddler. Another is how and when to responsibly gift him money as he grows up. Thank you again for speaking with us and encouraging us to dream bigger. Unfortunately, I didn't get an update from Sophia and Charlie. I hope they've been able to work on having more positive money conversations and.

[Audience Member 2]

I wish them the best.

[Ramit Sethi]

I want to thank both Sophia and Charlie, Megan and Ryan for having the courage to come up on stage in front of hundreds of people and speak so openly about money. We had a great time and if you want to be in the audience for the next stop on my tour, tickets are on sale [e-mail] book tour.

[Audience Member 1]

They called it the happiest place on the high desert, home to a tight knit group of 30 somethings who like to party.

[Audience Member 2]

It starts as a Playboy Channel fan.

[Audience Member 1]

But this is real life where passion.

[Ryan]

Leads to murder and a killer seeks.

[Audience Member 1]

God's help with the COVID up. I'm Josh Mankiewicz and this is Deadly Mirage, an all new podcast from Dateline.

[Ramit Sethi]

Listen to new episodes for free each week. Wherever you get your podcasts.