211. Ramit and Cassandra open up: “Our real money fights (and what we learned)”

Summary

Episode Summary: Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi – Episode 211: “Ramit and Cassandra open up: Our real money fights (and what we learned)”

In Episode 211 of Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi, host Ramit Sethi sits down with his wife, Cassandra Sethi, to delve into the intricacies of managing money within their marriage. This candid conversation explores the challenges they've faced, the strategies they've developed, and the lessons they've learned about financial collaboration and personal growth. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the essence of their discussion.

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1. Introduction to the Episode

Ramit Sethi and Cassandra Sethi open up about their personal experiences with managing money in their marriage. Hosted by Julie Nguyen, the episode aims to provide listeners with real-life insights into how couples can navigate financial disagreements and build a shared vision for their "Rich Life."

Notable Quote:

• Ramit Sethi [01:00]: "The truth is that our relationship, like a lot of yours, is complex... we both run our own businesses, different incomes, strong opinions about money, and a prenup."

2. Personal Backgrounds

Cassandra shares her upbringing, highlighting the strong work ethic instilled by her parents and the lack of direct conversations about money. In contrast, Ramit discusses his parents' frugality and resourcefulness, exemplified by his father's ingenious use of a decades-old discount check to afford a Disneyland trip.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [14:28]: "When I think of my parents and of my childhood, I think of just laughing all the time... but honestly, we didn't really talk about money too much."

• Ramit Sethi [15:33]: Recounts his family's Disneyland trip using a 1982 discount check, showcasing his father's creativity and determination.

3. First Meeting and Relationship Dynamics

The couple reminisces about their first meeting at a friend's barbecue, highlighting their immediate connection and shared sense of humor. Ramit recalls spilling water on Cassandra during their first date and her impeccable response, which solidified his interest in her.

Notable Quote:

• Ramit Sethi [22:36]: "I saw her, I knew I had to get to know her."

• Cassandra Sethi [24:07]: "It was an accident, but it was actually amazing because she just like, laughed."

4. Money Management and Challenges

a. Separate vs. Joint Finances

Initially, both Ramit and Cassandra maintained separate finances post-marriage to assert their independence and prove their financial self-sufficiency. This decision led to recurring disagreements about financial rules and transparency.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [03:20]: "Lighten up on the rules."

• Ramit Sethi [03:43]: "Sometimes you really just need to talk about it."

b. Prenup Discussion

One of the most challenging financial conversations was establishing their prenup. Ramit aimed for a generous arrangement to ensure mutual security, but the legal complexities and emotional strain led them to seek therapy. This experience underscored the importance of understanding each other's money philosophies.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [06:36]: "I think prenup. I was gonna say prenup as well."

• Ramit Sethi [08:07]: Discusses the emotional fallout from the prenup negotiations and the subsequent therapy sessions that helped them understand their differing views on money.

c. Money Meetings and Communication

The Sethis instituted regular money meetings to review their finances, initially struggling with scheduling and prioritization. By shifting the meetings to more conducive times, they enhanced their commitment and effectiveness in financial discussions.

Notable Quote:

• Ramit Sethi [05:33]: "We have our own challenges years into getting married, and it's hard."

• Cassandra Sethi [05:34]: Reflects on the importance of scheduling and dedication to financial meetings.

d. Money Fights and Resolutions

Cassandra highlights a pivotal moment when she presented Ramit with a detailed list of household chores, leading to a breakthrough in addressing underlying resentments. This approach exemplifies effective communication and problem-solving within a partnership.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [52:52]: Describes typing out a list of chores to illustrate the imbalance she felt.

• Ramit Sethi [53:30]: Acknowledges the validity of Cassandra's frustrations and the necessity for equitable division of responsibilities.

5. Housework and Chore Management

Cassandra discusses how household responsibilities became a source of tension until she presented a comprehensive chore list. This transparency allowed Ramit to understand the extent of her contributions and work towards a more balanced distribution of tasks.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [52:38]: "So I kind of think of it as a business... I took a lot of it on, especially very early on... I was growing resentful."

• Ramit Sethi [53:30]: "When you brought out the list, it was undeniable... we got to make a change."

6. Money Mindset and Personal Growth

Both Ramit and Cassandra emphasize the transformation in their money mindsets. Cassandra shifted from a scarcity mindset to one of abundance through introspection and self-improvement, while Ramit learned to better understand and articulate his emotions related to money.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [34:42]: "Money flows to me easily. I can earn money, I can attract money."

• Ramit Sethi [65:15]: "I've learned from you the importance of, like, how do you feel?"

7. Guilt-Free Spending

The couple openly discusses their approach to guilt-free spending, highlighting areas where they lavish money on their passions and self-care without remorse. This aligns with Ramit's philosophy of spending extravagantly on things that matter and cutting costs on the rest.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [56:46]: "I love spending money on self-care... I am so unapologetic about it."

• Ramit Sethi [56:53]: "What is that thing in the hotel rooms? Minibar. What do you like to spend money on?"

8. Entrepreneurship and Mutual Support

Cassandra shares her entrepreneurial journey from a corporate fashion merchandiser to founding Next Level Wardrobe. Ramit lauds her dedication and systematic approach, emphasizing the support they've provided each other in their respective ventures.

Notable Quote:

• Cassandra Sethi [43:01]: "I pitched my services at a friend's wedding and landed my first client that night."

• Ramit Sethi [43:50]: "The work that you do for your clients is amazing... very inspirational."

9. Advice for Other Couples

Ramit and Cassandra offer practical advice for couples navigating financial challenges. Key takeaways include the importance of open communication, mutual support, understanding each other's money philosophies, and being willing to adapt and compromise.

Notable Quote:

• Ramit Sethi [71:22]: "To live a rich life, not everything has to be perfect and dialed in. You got to acknowledge what's working, celebrate it, and then acknowledge what's not and work on it together."

10. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Ramit and Cassandra reflecting on their journey towards financial harmony. Ramit emphasizes the value of sharing personal financial struggles and triumphs, fostering deeper connections both within the marriage and with listeners. Their story serves as a testament to the power of partnership, communication, and continuous growth in achieving a fulfilling financial life together.

Notable Quote:

• Ramit Sethi [71:48]: "My hope is that by sharing our story, you can see that in order to live a rich life... work on it together."

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Key Takeaways:

• Open Communication: Transparent discussions about finances are crucial for resolving conflicts and building trust.

• Flexibility and Compromise: Adapting financial strategies to suit both partners' needs ensures a balanced approach.

• Personal Growth: Addressing individual money mindsets enhances the overall financial health of the relationship.

• Supportive Partnership: Mutual support in entrepreneurial endeavors and personal challenges strengthens the marital bond.

• Guilt-Free Spending: Allocating funds to personal passions and self-care without guilt promotes a fulfilling life.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Ramit Sethi [01:00]: "The truth is that our relationship, like a lot of yours, is complex... we both run our own businesses, different incomes, strong opinions about money, and a prenup."

2. Cassandra Sethi [14:28]: "But honestly, we didn't really talk about money too much."

3. Ramit Sethi [22:36]: "I saw her, I knew I had to get to know her."

4. Cassandra Sethi [52:52]: "So I kind of think of it as a business... I was growing resentful."

5. Cassandra Sethi [34:42]: "Money flows to me easily. I can earn money, I can attract money."

6. Cassandra Sethi [56:46]: "I love spending money on self-care... I am so unapologetic about it."

7. Ramit Sethi [71:22]: "To live a rich life, not everything has to be perfect and dialed in... work on it together."

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Final Thoughts

Ramit and Cassandra Sethi's heartfelt discussion offers valuable insights into the real-world application of financial principles within a marriage. Their willingness to share vulnerabilities and triumphs provides a relatable blueprint for couples aiming to harmonize their financial lives. By emphasizing communication, mutual respect, and continuous personal development, they demonstrate that achieving a "Rich Life" is a collaborative and evolving journey.

For listeners seeking to improve their financial relationships, this episode serves as an inspiring guide on navigating money together with empathy, strategy, and love.

Transcript

[Ramit Sethi]

Ca's underplays how frustrated she was. You were really frustrated.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, it p me off. It really makes my blood boil.

[Ramit Sethi]

I remember that moment where, like, the blood leaves your face, and I realized, like, I violated my own rule from chapter nine of my own book where I say, talk about it early, and it was true.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I think of the things that we've gone through in our marriage, and it's been really tough sometimes.

[Ramit Sethi]

It was pretty hard. It was hard because I'm like, why are we not combining our finances?

[Cassandra Sethi]

I wanted to do it on my own to prove to myself and to prove to Ramit like, I'm fine on my own.

[Julie Nguyen]

Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Lighten up on the rules.

[Ramit Sethi]

Ooh, okay. That's never gonna happen.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Times when we have had fights, and then the next morning, we have a money meeting. I'm like, oh, this money meeting.

[Ramit Sethi]

We have our own challenges years into getting married, and it's hard.

[Julie Nguyen]

We've been joking over the last few days about what your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

What is it? Oh, is it happening right now? Oh, my God.

[Julie Nguyen]

Welcome to the Money for Couples show. I am your host today, Julie Nguyen, and today's guests are Ramit and Cass.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Let's go.

[Ramit Sethi]

I'm way more nervous about this than any podcast I've ever done. I've been told I need to work on being more vulnerable. So today I'm doing something I have never done, and it made me really nervous. More nervous than shooting my Netflix show, More nervous than going on tour. On today's episode, my wife Cassandra and I are in the hot seat. We are being interviewed by my longtime friend, Julie Nguyen. We wanted to do this podcast because people are always asking how Cassandra and I manage our money. How do we actually do it behind the scenes? How does it work if you make different amounts of money or you have a prenup or you saw money differently? And for years, I've kept that private. But today, I'm in the hot seat, and so is Cassandra. The truth is that our relationship, like a lot of yours, is complex. We come from different backgrounds. We kept separate finances for years. We both run our own businesses, different incomes, strong opinions about money, and a prenup. We got a lot of things to talk about, but this episode is not just about the hard stuff and the differences in how we see money. It's also about how to bring those differences together, how you can learn and laugh and mess up and still stay connected. So today, in part so that I can be more vulnerable with you, I handed over the mic. Julie is one of my best friends. She was also a roommate. She knows all of my embarrassing stories. She's also known Cassandra since we met. So let's get into it.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Julie, you have known Ramit a very long time.

[Ramit Sethi]

We have a long history, like, friends, classmates, roommates, professional contacts, all of it. And, yeah, it's been awesome.

[Julie Nguyen]

It feels like just yesterday you were recording these YouTube videos in the bedroom, like, right next to mine.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah.

[Julie Nguyen]

And every time I couldn't find my makeup mirror. Okay. I was, like, trying to do my makeup, I would go in, and it would be on Ramit's desk because it had, like, a vanity light on it. And that's what he used to light those YouTube videos. Are there any recurring themes to things that you guys regularly disagree on when it comes to money?

[Ramit Sethi]

Wow. Good question.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I think one is around the rules.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. Like, I'm more like, we set a.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Rule, we keep it. And I'm like, you know, we're gonna have to revisit sometimes.

[Ramit Sethi]

And I'm like, what's that word? I never. I never heard that.

[Cassandra Sethi]

And it's okay if we, like, break the rule and stuff, because sometimes we need to.

[Ramit Sethi]

So that's why I do think that you. You really like to blend money and feelings. Money and where are we in our relationship? And I think that shows up a lot. And for me, like, I'm just like, let's hit this number question that we have. Like, we need to answer this question about which account should this be in? And I think that both of us have, like, tried to meet in the middle and come up with creative solutions for it. Sometimes you really just need to talk about it.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I don't think that's ever going to change either. It's just one of those things, like, it's not worth rediscussing all the time, and that's okay. But for me personally, they do coexist. And when times when we have had fights, and then the next morning we have a money meeting, I'm like, oh, this money meeting, I don't want to have it right now. You know? And so it does. It will always just coexist for me. Whereas you can compartmentalize. Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

Also, I think there have been times, especially when I was writing my book, where I didn't. I'm supposed to, like, send the agenda out for the money meeting, and I didn't. In fact, I let it go for, like, over a month sometimes. And Cass Would bring it up like, hey, you're supposed to be in charge of this. You would never miss a meeting at work ever. So why are you missing this meeting? When she told me, I was like, oh, you're right. Let me fix it. And I did fix it for a while, but then it went back. And then she brought it up again. And finally I was, like, very embarrassed because here I am writing a book about money for couples, and I'm not even following up by setting the freaking money meeting that I'm writing about. Yes. It's important to me. Why am I not following through on this thing? I would never miss an equivalent meeting at work. And it's so crazy. The thing that I realized was our meetings were scheduled at like, 7pm what work meeting am I scheduling at 7pm? None. Because by that time we're tired or somebody had to go out for a dinner meeting or something like that.

[Julie Nguyen]

So.

[Ramit Sethi]

So I was like, okay, as crazy as this sounds, I think that one of the reasons is that we're not taking this seriously, because it's at 7pm I'm not taking it, so can we move it? And she was like, okay. So we moved it to 9am on. On this one day. And like, that. That is what it deserves. It deserves to be in business hours so that we are both fresh, ready to go. We talked about what's in that meeting. We sort of simplified that. But it's the time that made the difference.

[Cassandra Sethi]

And I think, for me, because you had missed a few of them, like, to the point where I could feel the resentment kind of building and. Because I took it personally. Right. Cause it's connected for me. And so at one point I was just like, okay, I've, like, addressed it with him. He's an adult. He can figure it out. And you did. So I had to kind of let you go off on your own and do it. Yeah.

[Julie Nguyen]

I'm wondering, was there ever a money conversation you guys had that was the hardest one, where maybe it almost tore you apart?

[Ramit Sethi]

I'm sweating thinking about it right now. Yes.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I think prenup. I was gonna say prenup as well.

[Ramit Sethi]

100% prenup. First time I brought it up. I remember I had, like, talked to so many people, gotten advice, planned what I was gonna say, and I was very nervous about it. And you received it really well. I remember what you said, you know, hey, I wasn't expecting this, but I don't know much about it, but I willing to learn. I was like, wow, amazing. For me, I knew we were getting married. So I'm like, I'm not trying to negotiate this in a way that I come out, like, winning and she loses. It was like, we're in this together. So my natural inclination is I want to propose something that is so generous, there can be no question about what I want from this. And I remember because I was like, I want you to never have to worry about money, because we don't have to worry about money. We get this amazing opportunity to live our rich life and help our family and things like that. So, you know, lawyers put together this thing, and I was like, cool. Like, this is going to be great. It was not. And. And I was, like, shocked, because I'm like, whoa. And we're talking about big numbers. And we started going back and forth, and I was very confused, like, very hurt, because I'm like, I'm not trying to trick anybody here. And I think that that was when it started to get very difficult. And it all changed when you said, like, hey, this isn't really going well. Let's go see somebody. And then we walked down the street to that therapist.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

Just like, we found them on Yelp. And that question she asked us, like, how do you see money? And that really opened up conversations that we hadn't been able to have, because her. My answer was like, growth, of course. Like, look at the compounding. And her answer was, safety. Like, huh?

[Cassandra Sethi]

I was like, I don't want to be possibly divorced sitting outside of a house with rain coming down and dark clouds.

[Ramit Sethi]

And I was like. I was like, look at these numbers. That's literally impossible. But in retrospect, you were not asking me to pull out a spreadsheet. You. You. You were feeling this. Looking back, I needed to listen to what you were saying. I should have been asking more questions. I should have used the freaking wheel of emotions. Cause I didn't know how to describe my feelings. I wasn't raised talking about my feelings. And you also needed to become more adept with numbers and to be able to merge between feelings and numbers and logistics.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. And I'll never forget something Ramit said to me during that time. You were like, I really need you to get better at money. And I took that very seriously, because deep down inside, I was like, I know I'm not that great at money. You know, I could get better. And so that's when I started reading the books. Hired a coach. Like, journaling.

[Ramit Sethi]

She hired a coach. I never even asked her who the coach was, because I'm afraid if I find out who it is. I'm gonna be so mad. Who is this coach who's talking about money psychology that you hired? But in retrospect, that was totally the right move. You can't learn from somebody who you're talking to about this. You have to find your own way. And you did it. Like, you put in tons of work. I remember you would lose your breath when we were talking about money.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, I would physically feel it. Yeah, yeah. Like anxious and stuff.

[Ramit Sethi]

You would run out of breath.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

And you'd have to, like. And that doesn't happen anymore.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I think a lot of our experiences from that kind of bled into our marriage, and until we started having those tougher conversations about, like, why do you really feel that way and what's beneath that? We started to uncover, for me, at least, it was a lot. Because of what happened in the prenup and how I felt at that time. And thinking back to the prenup, I feel like I was a completely different person then. I was more scarce with money, so I didn't think abundantly with, like, I can earn more. I can start a business. I can do this and that. And so I was like, okay, I need to keep what's mine and mind my mind. And Ramit was always very like, this is why I'm doing this. And he always explained why. And so the prenup. Because I didn't grow up with anyone who had prenups around me, so I had to do my own research. And then the advice online is horrible for women as well. And so really kind of sifting through all of that info was tough, but, yeah, the prenup was really tough.

[Julie Nguyen]

We've been joking over the last few days about what your worst nightmare would be on this podcast.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. What is it? Oh, is it happening right now?

[Julie Nguyen]

And, oh, my God, your team was able to send me. So we are gonna dig into the numbers. Your csp.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, wow. You know what? I'm not even fazed, because I know you don't have it. I know that. It's called confidentiality, people. Although our CSP would make no sense.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

[Ramit Sethi]

It would make no sense.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

No assets. Well, aside from investments, but yeah.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

What is the biggest asset? Like a sweater?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. Maybe.

[Ramit Sethi]

I don't know.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Jewelry.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, jewelry. Basically, very few assets. And. Yeah, it just makes no sense.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, it wouldn't make any sense. But I see you sweating.

[Ramit Sethi]

I know. I don't want that. CSP people will be like, what? Why do you spend that much on guilt free spending. Like, because I like to travel, I.

[Julie Nguyen]

Wouldn'T want people to see your csp. I kind of basically know I'm close enough to you guys. People wouldn't understand if they don't know you. Well, that's the thing.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. But actually, I think that when I see somebody who has, like, a crazy way that they spend money, I actually admire it. As long as they can afford it. I'm like, oh, you. Oh. Like, you spend this much on clothes or you spend that much donating whatever it is. I'm like, that's cool if you can afford it. The more dialed in your rich life becomes, the more weird your finances will become. And that's normal. Like it should be. The more unique. You create your own vision. So I think we've done that together progressively over many years.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, definitely.

[Julie Nguyen]

I want you each to talk about what you did leading up to this podcast because it highlights how different your personalities are.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, Tell them, Cass.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yes. So we had a party this weekend at our place, and I thought it would be fun to have these finger tattoos available to everyone, except I was the only one who used them. And they came on and they were so light, so I was like, I'm just going to put them on all my fingers. So I did. And then last night I spent an hour trying to get them off. And I was like, oh, well, it's fine.

[Ramit Sethi]

She looked at me, she goes, babe, they're not coming off. These are not coming off. What should I do? I'm like, I don't know, use. And I looked it up and then it didn't come off. And then she just goes, yeah. I'm like, babe, they roll tight on your fingers. They're going to see everyone looking like a felon. Hold that up. Look at this.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I probably should have read the instructions before because these are supposed to last two weeks.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, she did it two days before we shoot. Anyway. Perfect example. You're like, go with the flow.

[Cassandra Sethi]

It's fine.

[Ramit Sethi]

I'm like, did you plan it out? What's in the calendar? I would never.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Well, you even told me last night. I don't even use any body products that are new. I don't eat anything out of the ordinary.

[Ramit Sethi]

Doctor, when I'm shrimp, I would never use, like, a different shampoo the day before.

[Cassandra Sethi]

It just never crossed my mind at all.

[Julie Nguyen]

Yeah, I. I gifted. I gifted these two. A very nice shampoo and conditioner. I wasn't expecting you to use it before the shoot. And then Cass told me she used it even I was like, girl, you couldn't wait one day?

[Ramit Sethi]

Perfect example.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. Yeah, Very much so, yes.

[Julie Nguyen]

Okay, I want to rewind again. I know Ramit has spoken a lot about his experiences with money growing up, and we can revisit those. But I'm curious, Cass, what was your experience with money growing up?

[Cassandra Sethi]

When I think of my parents and of my childhood, I think of just laughing all the time. And my parents really instilled in me to have a good sense of humor because life can get tough and all the things. But my parents both worked full time. Their work ethic is, like, exceptional. I have a brother as well, so it was four of us in the household. And so whenever my brother and I wanted to do sports. Sports or whatever, they would find a way to make it happen. They were always so supportive because we didn't travel a lot when I was small. We would just stay in California, do road trips and stuff. But anytime I got the opportunity to go somewhere, they're like, go do it. Like, we'll find a way to make it happen. And so I'm always, always so grateful for that. There were never real conversations about money. But honestly, I think it's because my parents were so busy working all the time. Like, they just needed to work and provide and all of that stuff. So I had a very amazing childhood. But, yeah, we didn't really talk about money too much.

[Julie Nguyen]

Now, Ramit, talk a little bit about what your money experience was.

[Ramit Sethi]

Growing up, my parents did not come here with a lot of money. You know, they had an arranged marriage. My mom got on a plane for the first time and comes to America to meet my dad. They met seven days later, married, and they built this family. And sometimes they had to do stuff that, like, we can't really imagine doing right now. Quite frugal, because they had to be.

[Julie Nguyen]

Please tell the Disneyland story.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, my God.

[Julie Nguyen]

Because I love it.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, my God. So, okay, I was born in 1982, and when I was 14, 15 years old, something like that, we went to Disneyland. We didn't go to Disneyland a lot, but we were living in Northern California. Our family trip was typically, get in the minivan, drive down to Southern California, stop midway, open up a thermos, which my mom had made lunch and put it in there. We wouldn't eat out at, like, a McDonald's too much money, and then keep going and stay with our family in Southern California. Like, that was our trip. This time we went to Disneyland. Disneyland is expensive, but my dad loves a good deal, so we get to the Front. And we know that something's going on because he goes, stay there. And. But I wanted to listen. Not only does my dad pull out his state id, not only does he pull out his AAA discount and stack that on top, my dad pulls the most legendary move I've ever seen. He pulls out a check from 1982, and he says, resident Los Angeles, here you go. Gets the resident discount for all of us. I said, dad, how did you keep that check for 15 years? He never answered. He just smiled. So we all went to Disneyland that day. Amazing. Well, there's something very romantic about. They had to find a way to have their kids have a nice time, and that's what they had to do.

[Cassandra Sethi]

That's one of my favorite sayings, that your mom says, there's always a way.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah.

[Cassandra Sethi]

And she and your dad were always very creative.

[Ramit Sethi]

Very creative. You know, I later found out my mom was, like, calling the soccer league, like, hey, we can't afford the fees. Like, what can we do? And they were like, if you chalk the fields before the game, will, like, wave the feet. My mom was freaking chalking fell fields. We didn't even know this. I didn't know this till my twenties. Just to get us to be able to play soccer, like, that is crazy. And. And I think what my dad and that example and my mom and so many examples is like, we're going to find the family joy in whatever we have to do. If we're pulling over on the side of the road and eating lunch that my mom made, like, there's joy in that. It's not that we're less than anybody else, that we can't eat at some restaurant. It's just, this is what we do. This is family. And I see that in so many lessons now. I look back on what my parents taught me and I talk to them, but that's a great example.

[Julie Nguyen]

I want you guys to tell me about how you first met. And more importantly, what were your first impressions of each other?

[Ramit Sethi]

I remember everything. I saw her. I knew I had to get to know her.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I vividly remember that. And then I also knew that day that something was different.

[Ramit Sethi]

Everywhere I turn, everybody's talking about tipping. Oh, my God. There's a culture of over tipping. Tipping is so expensive, they're ripping me off, expecting me to flip the screen around and pay 30 cents for my coffee. Why is it that so many people are obsessed with minimizing how much they pay a barista who's making minimum wage, and yet you don't apply that Same logic to other expenses in your life. How many of you, for example, are paying 1% to a financial advisor and you don't even know how much that's costing you? I remember this young woman reached out to me, early 30s. She goes, hey, Ramit, am I getting ripped off? How much am I paying? I go, I don't know. You tell me. How much do you think that this advisor is going to cost you over the next 30 years? She says, maybe 30,000. The correct answer, $315,000. How can you be so obsessed with minimizing how much you're giving to a barista or a waitress versus paying 1% in fees to a financial advisor? There is a better way. It's called a flat fee. That's why I've partnered with Facet, a service that offers affordable, accessible financial planning. With Facet, you get flexible access to a team of financial planners and a team of professionals providing guidance across retirement planning, tax strategy, estate planning, and more. And instead of taking a percentage of your portfolio, there's an affordable flat membership fee. Now, a lot of people can manage their finances on their own. Just follow chapters three, six and seven of my first book. But if you are getting closer to retirement or you have a complex portfolio or you just want a second set of eyes on your specific financial plan, then I highly recommend you check out Fastt. You can book a free [e-mail] Ramit, speak to them and decide if it makes sense for you. Check out their membership [e-mail] ramit Again, facet.com ramit F A C E T Sponsored by Facet, Facet Wealth Inc. Facet is an SEC registered investment advisor headquartered in Baltimore, Maryland. This is not an offer to sell securities or investment financial, legal or tax advice. Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance. Terms and conditions apply. Right now, if you look at the news, economy is very uncertain. I've talked about increasing your emergency fund. We're hearing about layoffs, inflation, prices going up, companies raising prices because of tariffs. If you are running a business, there's a lot of uncertainty. And when there's uncertainty, there's risk. When there's risk, companies often cut back, they raise prices, they freeze hiring or worse. So how do you make decisions when the future is uncertain? Well, one of the things you can do is start getting a clear view of the presentation, what's actually happening in your business right now. And that's exactly what this episode's sponsor, NetSuite, gives you. When you're running a business, you need Visibility and whether that's global shipments to tariff impacts to real time cash flow. You can see those things using NetSuite by Oracle, which is your AI powered business management suite. Over 41,000 companies have future proof their operations with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP. It brings accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into a unified streamlined platform, giving you a single source of truth across your business. And because it's built with AI, you get real time forecasts and insights so you can spot risks early. If I needed a tool to manage supply chains and cash flow and real time forecasting, NetSuite would be at the top of my list. NetSuite helps you know what's not working, what it's costing you, and how to pivot fast if your revenues are at least in the seven figures. Download the free ebook Navigating Global Trade 3 Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com Ramit that's netsuite.com Ramit.

[Julie Nguyen]

I want you guys to tell me about how you first met and more importantly, what were your first impressions of each other?

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, I'll go first. I remember everything. I saw her, I knew I had to get to know her. So we were at a friend's barbecue. I saw her. She was in the kitchen. It was a daytime barbecue in New York.

[Julie Nguyen]

Wait, was she cooking?

[Ramit Sethi]

No, no, no, no.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I don't cook.

[Ramit Sethi]

We were there and I saw her from across the room. I don't remember what you were wearing, but I was like, she's not from New York. Because she had a big smile and was just like very animated and had a California energy. Okay, I'm from California, so I know that. And I went up to her and I said, you don't have to tell me where you're from. I already know you're from California.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, that was the line.

[Ramit Sethi]

So I saw her, I knew I had to get to know her. And quite a gamble saying that California thing. It turns out she is from California.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I remember what he's wearing that day. He's wearing a red polo with khaki shorts, which he does not own anymore.

[Ramit Sethi]

That got changed very quickly.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, so he does not. But I vividly remember that. And then I also knew like that day that something was different, especially after we talked. I was like, something is here. And I remember women telling me, when you know, you know. And I was like, yeah, okay, whatever. But I think I knew that day that this was going to be like something more long term.

[Ramit Sethi]

We started going out and I remember on the first date we Went to Maywell on sixth and second. That was a Mexican cocktail bar. And I accidentally spilled an entire cup of water on her.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Accidentally.

[Ramit Sethi]

It was an accident, but it was actually amazing because she just like, laughed. She literally just laughed. That was a moment where I think I just like, subconsciously registered it. I love people with a good sense of humor, but especially my wife. Like, I knew that the person that I was with had to have a good sense of humor because it's so important to me. And when I saw that it was a total freak accident that I knocked it over and she just laughed. So the first smile, the first time I saw you, and then the laugh, I was like, oh, there's something here.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, I was crying on the inside though. Cause I had on a good outfit.

[Julie Nguyen]

So back when you first started dating, what would you have said back then you were looking for in a partner? And now that you've been together for a decade, what do you think actually matters?

[Ramit Sethi]

I would have said sense of humor, interested in self improvement and the same values. I think all those things are true. But I underestimated how important resilience is. Like, it's huge because things happen in life where it's not in your control. And to be able to take it and, and grieve and process it and then get up the next day and still keep going is like, wow, that's incredible. I don't know how you look for resilience. I truthfully don't. I think I got really lucky. And I think that we have built trust together where sometimes you just need to lean on your partner and you need to just be like, I can't do this on my own. I need help.

[Cassandra Sethi]

As you say, resilience. That is so true. And I'm just thinking back to when we were dating. Like, how would you scream?

[Ramit Sethi]

I have no idea for that.

[Cassandra Sethi]

You pour a glass of water on them at the bar.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yes. Who knew unknowingly what a great test. But what would yours be?

[Cassandra Sethi]

So I would say a sense of humor is very important to me. My parents are hilarious. They have a great sense of humor and they really taught me that. And I would have said that back then. And you do. We laugh all the time. But now I think what is most important after everything we've been through is a positive outlook. Because I think of the things that we've gone through in our marriage and it's been really tough sometimes and to have you being there, being so positive and forward looking and okay, here's what we need to get done and stuff has been really amazing. And I think it would be really hard to be with someone who didn't have that outlook consistently.

[Julie Nguyen]

Who brought up money first when you were dating and how did that go?

[Ramit Sethi]

I probably brought it up, but I think you brought it up. Seriously. This is a big mistake. Like, I made a big mistake on this one. So Cass had asked me early on for some help with her 401k or something. I was like, you ever heard of a book called I Will Teach youh to Be Rich? Read it. And, you know, I helped you with your, I think, work finances. Because of that, I knew about your salary and basic expenses, but I didn't tell you mine years into dating. And she said, it doesn't feel fair. You know everything about my finances, and I don't know anything about yours. And I remember at that moment, like, almost that moment where, like, the blood leaves your face, and I realized, like, I violated my own rule from chapter nine of my own book, which where I say, talk about it early, and it was true. And in the back of my head, I know why I didn't share it earlier. I love understanding money. I love building the systems of money. I love earning and spending money. But I don't like talking about the specific details of my own money. And so I remember we had one of the best conversations we've ever had where I was like, here it is. And it felt weird because I'd never told anyone except, like, professional people who need to know certain numbers. But I also felt really proud. I felt really proud because what I had built took a lot of work, like, a lot of dedication, a lot of luck. And to be able to share that, like, it meant that we could create a kind of life that, like, most cannot imagine. And the. The questions are different. It's like, what do we want to do in our rich life? So it felt amazing.

[Julie Nguyen]

Hey, can you help me understand something? Just because, like, if I were in your shoes and I had a big bank account, I wouldn't feel afraid to tell my partner my money. I always. I assume it would be, like, people in the opposite situation. So can you help me understand why you were resistant to share your numbers for so long when they were technically, like, healthy numbers? You know what I mean?

[Ramit Sethi]

Like, I'm a public figure, but in many ways, I'm very private. And it was only when Cas pointed out that I had not proactively, which is, like, I regret that. That's when I started to open up. And then I think that was what allowed us to start connecting more.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. The funny thing is, when we met, I had no idea who he was, what he did, anything. And I think I asked you, oh, what do you do? Because people ask that in New York, and you're like, oh, I'm an author. And then that was it. And so you were very modest about everything. But after he had shared that with me, I was like, wow, he's worked really hard to get to that point. And as a business owner, now I'm like, it totally makes sense. I would probably have done the same thing and approached it the same way. So it also helped me have a lot of empathy, too.

[Ramit Sethi]

I appreciate that.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah.

[Julie Nguyen]

I want to talk about the proposal a little bit.

[Ramit Sethi]

We were dating pretty seriously, and it was very clear, like, we were both in this for the long term. We loved each other. We had met each other's families, and we sat down. We still have the Google Calendar invite. And it was like, all these agenda items. And she goes, there is one other thing. I would like to be engaged by Q1 of next year. And I was like, did you just speak in financial quarters? Because you are truly the dream woman of my life. And that's exactly what happened. And she had made it clear, like, this is when I want to be proposed to.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Wow. And then I also had sent him an email. Oh, yeah. With rings that I liked.

[Ramit Sethi]

Thank God. I love that.

[Cassandra Sethi]

So I detailed, like, I like this cut. I like this metal. Do what you want with this. But here's some details to help guide you.

[Ramit Sethi]

I love that. That made it so easy.

[Julie Nguyen]

All right, so how did he propose Cass?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, it was very special and very thoughtful. He said to me, we're going to go do a cooking class. And he's like, wear something nice. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, the spidey sense kind of starts to go out.

[Ramit Sethi]

Wait, what? I didn't know this. What the hell?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Because we had talked about getting engaged and all this, so I knew it was coming at some point. And then I had my nails done. I was, like, all ready to go. And we did. We went into little Italy, and you had arranged a baking class. And then there was, like, a back room, but I could see through the curtains that there was, like, a table and some flowers on it and stuff. So while things were baking, Ramit was like, oh, follow me back here to this room. And I knew. I was like, oh, my gosh, it's coming, it's coming. And he did. He proposed then, and that was very special. And so he had arrange a photographer. So we went out to do photos. We came back and he flew my parents in and his parents and sisters and brother were there and all of our friends and we had a party that night, our engagement party and so it was really special.

[Julie Nguyen]

Wow.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, that was an awesome, awesome day.

[Cassandra Sethi]

It was very thoughtful.

[Ramit Sethi]

There are a few things I refuse to do in my rich life. Bank with Wells Fargo or Bank of America? No thank you. Step foot in a Home Depot? No thanks. I don't want to smell that smell. I smelled it when I was seven years old. I'm good and spend hours on the phone trying to find an in network Dr. Only to be told that their next appointment is seven weeks from now. If you are like me and you want to avoid being on hold and actually get seen by a doctor this week, check out ZocDoc, the sponsor of this week's episode. ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. Book in network appointments with more than 100,000 doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care, and more. Using the app, you can filter for doctors who take your insurance. They're located nearby and they are highly rated by verified patients. And your appointments happen fast, typically within 24 to 72 hours of booking. They even have same day appointments in some cases. If I needed a doctor today, this is what I would use. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com ramit to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z O C doc.com ramit zocdoc.com ramit why are you guys posting some of the stuff I see you posting? Taking photos out of your front window so everyone knows exactly where you live, posting what school your kids go to, telling us when you're on vacation. Don't do this. Remember, data brokers already have access to lots of your personal information. Your phone number, email address, relatives, names. Just search for your name and the city you live in and you will see you don't need to make it easier for hackers and scammers to get your information. Now I got to tell you, protecting my personal information is important to me. Which is why I personally pay for a service called Delete Me. This episode's sponsor, Delete Me experts search for and start removing your personal information and in seven days you'll receive a delete detailed Delete Me report with what they found so far. Then they continue to scan and remove your personal information regularly, all year long. This is a service I personally pay for, and I regularly recommend it to my friends and family. So if you want to get your personal information removed from search results on the web, go to joindeleteme.com ramit for 20% off a plan for you or your entire family. Again, that's joindeleteme.com Ramit R A M I T.

[Julie Nguyen]

Cass, you mentioned you had a scarcity mindset around money, and now you have an abundance mindset around money. Can you share what kind of inner work you've had to do to make that transition?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, it was a lot of work, and I think it was just a lot of going inwards. Honestly, why am I thinking this way? Do I really believe I can't earn money? Or I don't deserve X or Y? And so the journaling and the mantras that I would repeat to myself over and over really helped. But it was a lot of introspection, and that was really illuminating for me because I thought, when you're in a marriage, everything should just flow and it works. And all this stuff where in reality, like, I personally knew that I had to do a lot of work on my thoughts and what I believed and how that was gonna impact us as husband and wife. And that has paid off so much. It was a lot of work. But in hindsight, I'm so glad that I did it because that then has cascaded into me advocating for myself more in our relationship, outside of the relationship, being a better business owner. So many ways it has impacted my life.

[Julie Nguyen]

I love it.

[Ramit Sethi]

Wait, wait, what was the mantra that you said? I didn't know this.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, yeah, there's a lot of mantras.

[Ramit Sethi]

Like, what's one?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Money flows to me easily. Oh, that is one. Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

So. And the implication is I deserve money. Is that it?

[Cassandra Sethi]

I can earn money, I can attract money. Money likes me.

[Ramit Sethi]

Nice.

[Cassandra Sethi]

All of that. Instead of I'm scarce. Yeah, yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

I better protect everything I have. Wow, that's cool.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Cool. Yeah. And it was so interesting too, because working a corporate job for so long, you kind of know your path, right? You know, the next promotion, what the salary is going to be, possible bonus. But now as a business owner, the sky is the limit. And so that transition, mentally for me, going from corporate worker to business owner has really helped me as well become more abundant too.

[Ramit Sethi]

That is so different than my approach because when we met, I had been running my own business for 15 years, and I knew if I want to make more Money. Here's what I need to do. And if I want to take a three week vacation or a five week vacation, I can do that too.

[Cassandra Sethi]

And I remember Ramit would be like, yeah, I'll just make more money. And I'm like, what? You just make more money? Wait, what?

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay, during, during COVID I remember she told me this thing. I was taking a nap on our couch.

[Cassandra Sethi]

It was like 3pm on a Tuesday.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. I was like, I thought nothing of it. I like to take a nap. And then she later told me, she goes, I saw you taking a nap. She's like, you have all these people working for you and like you're on TV and this and that and you're just like taking a nap. She's like, that's what I want. I was like, that's actually awesome because I do love the freedom to be able to take a nap.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, that actually really inspired me.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. And now you've done it.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

It's amazing. So I love that example that we both take from each other about like, oh, you do that in your business. What, that's possible now? Because I think you're abundant and we're both abundant.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yes.

[Julie Nguyen]

It's been great staying with you and seeing you both sleeping in the middle of the day.

[Cassandra Sethi]

We do love our naps.

[Julie Nguyen]

Cass, for years you kept your money separate from Ramit's. I want to understand what made you so hesitant to combine your money and then what was it that finally changed that made you willing to take the leap at last?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, that has been quite a journey for myself. When I think back to when we were dating and then we got the prenup and newly married, I, I wanted to do it on my own despite us being married and like, to prove to myself and to prove to Ramit, like, I can earn money, like, I'm fine on my own. I, I don't need to ask for help. And I had like a real sense of pride in that as well. And so just recently we started really digging into that a little bit more and I started thinking independently, why am I thinking this way? Like, is it serving me? Is it serving us? How does Ramit feel about that as well? And it was very nerve wracking for me to go to him and be like, okay, I'm ready to do things jointly now, you know? And I think Ramit had always, always pushed me, pushed and advocated for us to do our money jointly. How was that for you to like, oh my God.

[Ramit Sethi]

I was like, this is what I've Been talking about for, like, six years. It felt awesome.

[Cassandra Sethi]

And I think back to why I thought that way for so long. And honestly, it surrounded me. Like, growing up with girlfriends, you always want to keep money for yourself, just in case. And, you know, Ramit is so awesome. He's such a loving husband. I'm like, why am I not giving him a chance? And so it's been a little bit since we transitioned now, and I still kind of get nervous from time to time, but we talk it through together and, yeah, have good conversations about it. It's still work in progress, though. Still work in progress.

[Ramit Sethi]

I think that's pretty surprising to a lot of people. I mean, because we talk about joint, and if you look on the Internet, everyone's like, when you're married, everything comes together. But, you know, you mentioned this. This whisper in your mind about I need to have a little bit for myself. And it was what surrounded you. I think that's really common. Really common. Personally, it was pretty hard. Like, emotionally, it was hard because I'm like, why are we not combining our finances? Our future is together, so how can we not? But then logistically, that was also very challenging, because you're a business owner, I'm a business owner. We're going to have joint money, but we're also going to have separate. And our setup was so complicated early on. It was like, every quarter, if we have to do an analysis of our distributions, then we need to reapportion things because we're paying proportionally and we're married. And it was, like, so complicated. And I'm not trying to do this analysis myself, so it was, like, so much work. And then having to go back to each other and say, like, well, like, you got to transfer this much to this account is so burdensome. But for us to finally, like, be able to put everything into that joint account feels, like, awesome. It just feels natural because that's our future. It's together.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. And it's funny because Ramit would do these podcasts, and he'd be like, yeah, they didn't want to, you know, put their money jointly together. And I'm like, oh, really?

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, I wasn't trying to send you a secret message.

[Cassandra Sethi]

No, I know, but.

[Ramit Sethi]

But in retrospect, we're just like everybody else. We are living it. We have our own challenges. Years into getting married, we're still tweaking things. And that gives me a lot of compassion because, like, it's hard. It's hard. And you're successful as an entrepreneur and very empathetic And I've been doing this for 20 plus years, and it's hard for us, so, you know, it's hard for other people.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, we can really empathize with all the guests.

[Julie Nguyen]

So now that you've taken that leap, like, how has it affected your relationship?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, it has been positive to know that we're working towards this together. If he does well, I do well. Vice versa. And if you enjoy something, I enjoy it, and vice versa. It's been really relaxing for me.

[Ramit Sethi]

That's a good word. I feel like the day we decided, like, it immediately eased. Like, immediately there was a noticeable connection in our relationship that was there before, but we had to, like, work to get it. It was like going from teammates to true teammates. Yeah, definitely.

[Cassandra Sethi]

It's like a new level of trust, I would say.

[Julie Nguyen]

Yeah, I love that description. So there were times then when you were advising Ramit, other couples to merge their finances complete when you guys hadn't done that yet.

[Ramit Sethi]

So I did talk to couples where I'm like, yeah, it makes a lot of sense for you to combine. And ours was combined, but not.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Not 100%.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Julie Nguyen]

Got it. Okay. I want us to take the time now for you to walk us through your entrepreneurial journey and, like, everything you had to go through to become the kind of woman who can sit here today, sit at the table, not just as Ramit's romantic partner, but as a powerhouse in her own right.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, it was quite a journey. And Ramit has been there along for the whole ride. I worked a corporate job in the fashion industry. Nine to five, I was a fashion merchandiser and buyer. And then Ramit had an idea one day, and he said, you're really good at styling. Have you ever thought about starting a business? And I said, no way. I have never, ever thought about it. And then we went to a friend's wedding, and I pitched my services there, and I didn't know how to do an invoice. I didn't know anything. And I got a client that night, and then that was the beginning of Next Level Wardrobe. So it has been a really rewarding journey, and it's been fun to have Ramit as my support system along the way.

[Julie Nguyen]

Okay. You're very modest.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah. Can I brag for her?

[Julie Nguyen]

Yes, please.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. Because I see the business. Yes. And first of all, the work that you do for your clients is amazing. Like, you go out of your way. You're not just delivering the minimum. You're going above and beyond texting them, helping them with their Packing. Doing in person as well, but also the back end of the business is what is really impressive. So I saw you build it from the beginning. I remember early on, it was late at night. It was like 11pm you normally were not awake that late. And I come out and you're, like, staring at your computer and basically close to crying. And I was like, babe, what? What's wrong? You were like, this website alignment won't work. And I was like, why don't we go to sleep and we can worry about it in the morning and compare that. When you're starting out as an entrepreneur, like, every little detail feels existential. And now you have systems in your business that I don't have. I'm like, how'd you do that? What software? Who'd you hire for that? And that's when she's like, don't you dare hire them away, because I'm working with them. And the way that you deliver a creative service in a structured way is, like, amazing. It's very inspirational.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. Thank you. I will never forget that website night. I hold it deep in my soul. But, yeah, it's been fun. And Ramit has been so supportive along the way. He's been very careful not to give advice when I'm not looking for advice and just looking for support. And one of the questions that we'll always ask each other is, do you want support or do you want advice right now? And that has been a really, really helpful question.

[Ramit Sethi]

Well, I think early on I realized you're not my student, you're not in one of my programs, you're my wife, and you are an entrepreneur. And that means, like, it's not my business and I can watch. And sometimes early on I saw stuff and I'm like, oh, I wouldn't do it that way. But I was just like, shut your mouth to myself. Just don't. It's not my place. And then now, you know, I think when we talk about business a lot, we'll ask each other questions, hey, how are you doing this in your business? Or, like, what are you doing for onboarding? And it's a partnership. We're partners. We just run different businesses. And I think we're equally asking each other for advice or how do we do this or that?

[Julie Nguyen]

Cass, how does it feel when people think that you are simply riding on Ramit's success?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, it me off. It really makes my blood boil.

[Ramit Sethi]

Like, they have no idea how successful your business is, how much work you put into it.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Just the fact that, like, people may Think that gets me really worked up. Like really, really worked up.

[Ramit Sethi]

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[Julie Nguyen]

Cass, how does it feel when people think that you are simply riding on Ramit success?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, me off. It really makes my blood boil because I have worked in the fashion industry for over 25 years. I went to college for postgrad. Like, I have so much experience. I built multimillion dollar retail businesses. And so just the fact that like people may think that gets me really worked up. Like really, really worked up.

[Ramit Sethi]

Like they have no idea how successful your business is, how much work you put into it, how much you care about your clients, and you go above and beyond.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, even my team, like the way I hire people, the way I train people, the way we work with people is like it's, all of it is just so intentional and really was built upon my experience of working in the fashion industry. And so, you know, all those people will just never really understand. But it is. Yeah. Something that I'm very proud of that I've built and looking forward to growing it even more.

[Julie Nguyen]

Okay. So, Cass, since you are the one who has that engineering systems mind number spreadsheets, how does that show up and how you two manage money?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. So we do have bi weekly money meetings, and we have figured out a time in our calendar that works well for us, which is Thursday mornings for 30 minutes, and every quarter, I'll prep the numbers. So we have accountants, they send me the numbers. I love a good pivot table. Vlookups, all the things. I'll get the numbers ready, and then I'll present how the quarter is looking. So do we have extra money via distributions? How are we looking according to our budget and kind of go line by line item?

[Ramit Sethi]

Wait, hold on. Did you say budget? We don't do a budget.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, yeah, no budget. Csp. Sorry.

[Ramit Sethi]

Thank you. Every December, we have our Rich Life review. We talk about, like, how much do we want to spend in these categories? And because we are regularly monitoring a few key numbers, we always know, hey, we're a little bit over. It's okay. We have time in the year to recover. We also have a bit of a complexity that many other couples don't with business distribution. So sometimes we'll make more than planned or not. And I think you do an awesome job of like, like staying on top of that and us talking about it.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. And one of the things I will bring up in our meetings is if my business has a distribution or yours and we have this extra money, how do we want to spend it? So those are fun conversations for us to have.

[Ramit Sethi]

Although we do disagree.

[Cassandra Sethi]

We do disagree. Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

This is. This is one area where we disagree. So I think you like to talk about things. Like, each time it happens, you would be like, what should we do with our distribution? I'm like, I only want to talk about this once a year. I want to do it by percentage. I want to set a rule, and then I don't want to talk about this until next December. Like, that is my philosophy with money. Simplify. Create a rule and then never talk about it again.

[Cassandra Sethi]

But also, I think rules are meant to be broken.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, God.

[Julie Nguyen]

Someone has to be the freestyle. It ain't for me around hot sauce. Okay, Ramit, when we were roommates in our 20s, we used to have little tiffs every now and then about housework. So I'm curious, now that you are part of a power couple, how is housework divided between the two of You.

[Ramit Sethi]

Wow, this is a good question.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I'll take this one.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay.

[Cassandra Sethi]

So housework is one of those things that is really important in a relationship. I kind of think of it as a business. And so it's like, okay, how are we managing finances? How are you managing day to day housework, et cetera. And I took a lot of it on, especially very early on, because I thought that was the way to make Ramit happy so he can focus on work and accomplish all your goals, et cetera. But meanwhile, I was growing resentful because I'm, like, doing all the chores. I'm also working. I'm building my business. I'm trying to make use happy. Friends, family, all this stuff. And so one point I was like, I'm gonna write a list. And in Tokyo, right? Yes. So I did. And I literally typed out 1 to 20. Everything I was doing. I was emptying the dishwasher, I was holding laundry, listed it all out. And actually, after I wrote that list, I was like, damn, this is a lot of stuff that I'm doing. You kind of don't know, right?

[Julie Nguyen]

Please tell me you have a photo of this list.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, I think it exists. I think it exists. Yeah, it's in Google Docs somewhere. And so I presented it to Remi, and I was like, I want you to know that this is everything that I'm doing for our household and been doing it for years. Like, we need to have a discussion about this. And that led to a great discussion and some big breakthroughs because Ramit received it so well. He was like, I had no idea that you were doing all this. Like, how can we make it more equal, more fair? So we literally went down 1 to 20. You do this, I do this, and it's been really helpful.

[Ramit Sethi]

I remember that conversation. I think Cas underplays how frustrated she was. You were really frustrated because I think it had been building up for you. But maybe you brought it up in certain ways, but not like that. And I got to say, like, when you brought out the list, it was undeniable. It was like, oh, this is so obvious. This is so obviously unfair. You know what I mean? And the minute I saw that, I respond well to lists and just like, put it in black and white and I see it, and boom, we got to make a change. So I was like, okay, I'll do this. This. What do you think about that? I think that was an awesome example of you. Well, first of all, taking on all of that work for so long. I appreciate that. And like, that shouldn't have been the case. I should have been more equitable with that. But especially in that conversation, which I know was really hard for you and hard for me to hear the way you presented it. I was like, oh, like, I totally get it. And this can't continue for one more day.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. And those conversations are still ongoing. Like, we just revisited the chore list, like, a few weeks ago, and we're like, how do we feel about this? Is there anything we need to redelegate? And one of the reasons why I brought that up as well is because I realized I couldn't do it all. And I couldn't do it all at the level I wanted to. So something had to give.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah.

[Cassandra Sethi]

And now we have a 1, 2, 3 dishwasher process that we use every day.

[Ramit Sethi]

Can I talk about this? Invented this. It's the greatest invention I've ever done. Okay, listen. Every day. So we eat a lot of dishes every day.

[Julie Nguyen]

I've seen.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

That freaking thing fills up, right? Like, the sink will be full. So I was like, I need to apply my system's talent to solving this problem. So one day I said, babe, sit down and just mentally prepare yourself for the beauty and simplicity of this system. It's called the 1, 2, 3 system. One, in the morning, you wake up, the dishwasher will always be clean. You empty it. Two, throughout the day, we're each going to put dishes in, and whatever we eat, let's try to put two dishes in the dishwasher. So we're always filling it up. Three, at the end of the night, I will. Whatever's left, I'm gonna put it in the dishwasher, load it up correctly, start the dishwasher, and repeat. 1, 2, 3. I love this because when I open the dishwasher, I don't want to have to wonder what's in there. Is it clean? Is it dirty? It's just one way of smoothing out our lives and keeping it simple. Nobody else cares about this system except me. I love it. I'm so proud of it.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I care.

[Ramit Sethi]

Thank you, babe. Thank you so much. I. Luckily, we're on the same page about how much we do ourselves, which is, you know, we still do chores. We both raised doing chores. I know your mom was. You would clean on Saturdays, and we had chores in our house growing up. I know that. But now there's some stuff I just don't want to do anymore, and I. I don't feel any guilt about having somebody else and paying them very well and having them Do a great job. So we do that as well.

[Julie Nguyen]

Let's talk about the stuff that you guys spend on guilt free. And I especially want to hear about the stuff that other people would probably feel guilty about or that other people would think is really irrational.

[Ramit Sethi]

I never felt those things in my life. Guilt. What is that? Why would I feel guilty for spending money?

[Cassandra Sethi]

I love spending money on self care. I freaking love it. Like if I could retire and just go full time into self care, I would do it. So acupuncture, sports, massage, getting my hair done, manicure, pedicure. I love it so much. And I am so unapologetic about it because in my 40s, my theme is to slow down and so to really like calm the nervous system, all that stuff. And what better way than to get a massage?

[Ramit Sethi]

You do really love it. Like, it is. It is truly your money dial. A year and a half ago we sat down for our Rich life review and Cass was like, what do you like to spend money on? I was like, oh, travel, fitness clothes. And she's like, yeah, what else? And I, I was like, huh? And it, there's this moment where I'm like, this is what I talk about day in and day out. But what's my answer? Let me get back to you. Thought about it for a couple of days and I came back and said what I really want want is to have an apartment in New York that is beautiful and we can leave our stuff there. And it's a totally irrational thing to spend money on because we don't spend a ton of time in New York. But I just love the energy here. And she was like, well, then you should. And so I did that. And honestly, it's been amazing. And it's a good practice. It's a good reminder to practice the skill of spending money meaningfully. Meanwhile, like, there are other things I don't really care about and I always try to keep those minimized. But this one was like a special one for me and for us.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, it has been very special. And one thing we have recently discovered that we don't like to spend our money on jointly is car.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, I don't think anybody knows this.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay. Okay. So last year we had a theme for our rich life, which is we want to live a life of beauty. So that's. That was a one year theme. And so we're like, what does it take to surround ourselves with beauty? It might be fresh flowers, which I know is something you love to spend money on. I think that's awesome. And so Cass goes, what about our car? And I was like, what about our car? It's beautiful already. The Honda Accord 19.

[Julie Nguyen]

Remember that one?

[Ramit Sethi]

19 years.

[Julie Nguyen]

Yes.

[Ramit Sethi]

Impeccable condition, really was. The only thing that was a little old about it was the inside. The roof, the, like, ceiling started to fall down. So I went to get it repaired, but other than that, it was perfect. And I go, what are you talking about? She goes, well, you know, if we're following the theme, we should probably practice, like, spending money on the things we love. So I said, you know what? You're right. I still love this car. It runs perfectly. It had, like, 150,000 miles, but, like, let's do it. So first I was like, I want to give this car to somebody who needs it. So I started looking for, like, single moms in LA or, like, somebody who truly needed it. It was actually pretty hard to find. Finally, we have somebody in our network who said, you know what? I know these guys. They just got in an accident. They're young and they work hard. They need a car. So I went to talk to them. I got the car all detailed and, like, ready to go. And I went outside and I said, how you guys doing? I heard you guys got in an accident. And they were like, yeah. I said, what do you think about that car? I pointed at the car. It's, like, gleaming. And they go. I said, here. And I handed them the key. They said, it's yours. And they started crying.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. It was really sweet. Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

So I gave that car feeling, like, very proud. It was the first major purchase I ever made right out of college. It was meaningful to me. I really picked the best car. I negotiated for it. And now to be able to give that to somebody else, like, carry on, you know? Meanwhile, we went to lease a new car I had never leased before. We were like, we want electric. All we honestly wanted was Bluetooth. We didn't even have Bluetooth in our car.

[Cassandra Sethi]

That was my only wish. Bluetooth. Because in the Honda, we would just like, blast our speakers on the phone, on our iPhones, literally, the cell phone.

[Ramit Sethi]

You listen to Spotify off the cell phone, okay? So we. We find this electric vehicle. It's great. We get it. It's, like, has all the features. It has a massage, and it has a 50 million cameras. And we're like, whoa, this is crazy. And it's been over a year. It has 3,000 miles on it. We looked at each other a few months into it, and we were like, do you. Do you care about this car? And we were both like, no. And we want to get rid of it, especially Cass, because she ran the numbers to find out how much it costs, all in all, per month. And she was like, look at how much it's costing.

[Cassandra Sethi]

It was like double than what we originally thought.

[Ramit Sethi]

It's called phantom cost, my friends. And we just realized we don't care about that nice of a car we're like perfectly happy having.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I just need Bluetooth. That's it.

[Ramit Sethi]

And I was like, should we go and buy that Honda Accord? But I think it was actually a great realization for us, like the fact that we tried it. We're willing to try things and they don't always work out. We would, you know, make sure we can comfortably afford something when we try it. But it's actually cool to know that there are things that we like and things that are not important to us.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, it was a big realization for us because we were both so excited about it. And yeah, it just turned out it's just not our thing.

[Julie Nguyen]

Are there any other examples from recent times where you've caught yourselves not taking or following Ramit's money advice?

[Ramit Sethi]

Well, I mean, we spend more than certain guidelines on certain things.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Ramit Sethi]

Guilt free spending.

[Cassandra Sethi]

We love our guilt free spending. So we will work very hard to make sure that bucket is full.

[Ramit Sethi]

That's a good point.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah. If that means I have to do extra sales calls or you have to do another launch or whatever it is, we will work really hard because we enjoy our guilt free spending a lot.

[Ramit Sethi]

I never ever want to get close to the red line. Like never. I won't even get into that area. But as long as it's comfortable, I'm like, let me make some mistakes, let me learn from it, et cetera. So, I mean, with our wedding, thinking way back to that, I had been saving since I was in my 20s, before I even met Cas. I went way over plan. But I was like, so what? It's fine. I have the money. I don't need to be so tiny and detailed about going over. However, with the big things in life, I still want to be like, very kind. That's why we talk a lot about percentages of contribution and investment, stuff like that.

[Julie Nguyen]

I'm like shocked right now because you have been saving for your wedding since your 20s, but you were still willing to make that bet with me on who would get married first.

[Ramit Sethi]

Can we talk about this freaking bet? I lose. I made so many bets when I was in my 20s with friends that you. That he lost I pretty much lost. I lost, like, pretty much every single one. It was the loser who's going to get married first has to present an Ed McMahon size check at their wedding to the other person. So we made this bet, like, in our early 20s. I don't know if you thought I forgot, but I never forgot. I track all my bets, and at our wedding, I freaking pulled out this humongous check. And we have a photo. Because I surprised you. What did you think when I showed you this thing?

[Julie Nguyen]

I mean, I had forgotten the bet, so I was surprised. But then I. But I also wasn't surprised because you do always make good on your bets because we've had enough over the years. So everyone knows I haven't cashed that check yet.

[Ramit Sethi]

I think I've lost, like, tens of thousands of dollars in those stupid bets. Oh, God.

[Julie Nguyen]

I want to know what the most valuable thing you've learned about money, love, or life is from each other.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I would say from you, definitely. Abundance. Because for me, it was always like, there's a way we can do it. We can earn more money. We can do this, we can do that. And you got that from your parents as well. They instilled that in you. And so I think just seeing the world from that point of view has been really eye opening for me.

[Ramit Sethi]

Mine would be that I've learned from you is the importance of, like, how do you feel? How do you feel? How do I feel? I think first, for a lot of times, I didn't know how I felt. I knew what I thought. I'm intellectual, but I didn't know how I felt. And learning that is like learning a whole new. It's like developing a new palette. And it has really changed the way that I relate to people a lot. It's softer and more abundant, but you know what I mean? I don't want to be lectured to, like, there are areas of my life I'm trying to improve. And if somebody came into, like, look at the five ways you can radically change. Sometimes you just want to be heard. And I think you have taught me to really lean into that.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Rumi definitely has grown into his softer side. And so behind closed doors, you know, you do like to be the little spoon.

[Ramit Sethi]

I do love spoon.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Whoa.

[Julie Nguyen]

I was not expecting to learn this today.

[Ramit Sethi]

Little spoon is.

[Cassandra Sethi]

He does love the little spoon.

[Ramit Sethi]

I'm in touch with my own masculinity.

[Cassandra Sethi]

To say that after we talk about our feelings, I'll become the big spoon.

[Ramit Sethi]

I do love that.

[Cassandra Sethi]

But, yeah, he's. It's Been a true joy to see him develop emotionally and really get in tune with feelings and also ask for what he wants. And so, yeah, that's been really cool to see.

[Ramit Sethi]

I'm a teddy bear. Okay. Everybody knows.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, look it, I'm a teddy bear.

[Julie Nguyen]

I love that story. Cass, I want to hear from you what it is like living with an optimizer. And also second, is there anything that you do a little bit differently that perhaps drives Ramit a little bit crazy?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, yeah. So living with Ramit, he definitely loves his routines and systems. And a good example of this is he will put things back exactly where. So, like, if he were to close his eyes, he could walk into that room and pick it up. Whereas I'm like, oh, it's fine. It's over here, it's over there. And so stuff we share jointly. He'll be like, hey, where's that? Fill in the blank. And I'm like, oh, I think it's over here, but it's over here. And it drives me.

[Ramit Sethi]

I'm getting so mad listening to this right now. I'm getting so stressed out.

[Cassandra Sethi]

You've gotten more patient with it, but you used to get really upset by it.

[Julie Nguyen]

So I want you to look at each other now and give your partner one piece of money advice that you think would help improve either their lives or your life together or the quality of the relationship.

[Ramit Sethi]

Damn. Okay, you go first. I'm like.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Lighten up on the rules a little bit.

[Ramit Sethi]

Okay? That's never going to happen. Let me go into your bathroom with all those bottles with a large garbage bag and clean out 75%. Then let me just clean it out, please. No, that's.

[Cassandra Sethi]

That's never going to happen.

[Julie Nguyen]

Okay, Rapid fire. Round. Rapid fire. Who has the bigger closet?

[Cassandra Sethi]

He does.

[Julie Nguyen]

What is something you absolutely refuse to spend money on?

[Ramit Sethi]

What's that thing in the hotel rooms? Minibar.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, mini bar. Yeah, that's true.

[Julie Nguyen]

Who's more likely to impulse buy you with the gadgets?

[Ramit Sethi]

Clothes, maybe?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julie Nguyen]

What is the biggest splurge that you regularly make for your health?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Oh, personal trainer. Yeah.

[Julie Nguyen]

Who's more disciplined about their diet?

[Cassandra Sethi]

Ramit. I like chocolate.

[Julie Nguyen]

So your home in New York that we are all staying in right now catches on fire and you can take three things out of it. What are those three things gonna be?

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, I don't really care.

[Cassandra Sethi]

My computer.

[Ramit Sethi]

Oh, yeah.

[Cassandra Sethi]

You and my blankie. Yes, I have a blankie.

[Ramit Sethi]

Go ahead, open it up.

[Cassandra Sethi]

No, Keep moving.

[Ramit Sethi]

No, no, no. We talked about little spoon over here. Care to follow Up.

[Julie Nguyen]

Julie, these are supposed to be rapid fire.

[Ramit Sethi]

This rapid fire dial in Mike Wallace, get in on this. You have to follow up, unfortunately. Okay, I'm taking the mic. What's a blankie?

[Julie Nguyen]

This is the host seat.

[Ramit Sethi]

I know. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. What's a blankie?

[Cassandra Sethi]

A blankie is something that comforts you during sad times.

[Ramit Sethi]

You're a grown woman. You have a blankie.

[Cassandra Sethi]

I do. I love it, too, and I would take it if there is a fire. Julie, do you have a blankie?

[Julie Nguyen]

No, of course not.

[Ramit Sethi]

What message do you want to share with other women who may have a blankie?

[Cassandra Sethi]

It's okay if you have a blankie.

[Ramit Sethi]

I would take. I don't really care. I mean, stuff is stuff. I don't really find much meaning in it, so.

[Julie Nguyen]

So you would just grab your laptop and go?

[Ramit Sethi]

Not even.

[Julie Nguyen]

You wouldn't grab your laptop, really? Okay, so you grab nothing.

[Ramit Sethi]

I would grab Cass and. I don't know, things.

[Julie Nguyen]

Okay.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah, I guess. Yeah.

[Julie Nguyen]

Okay. What's one high priority life goal you haven't achieved yet?

[Cassandra Sethi]

For me, it's one how to give back. Like, I have so many causes that I'm passionate about and I want to explore. So I think I get analysis paralysis a little bit on what cause is most meaningful and how do I go about it. But, yeah, that's something I want to explore over the next few years and dive into.

[Ramit Sethi]

I was very fortunate to have a lot of scholarships that helped me get through college and grad school, and I was, like, incredibly inspired by it. I tried to start a scholarship when I was younger, crazy enough, like, nobody applied. So I have a big vision for giving back. So we've been talking a little bit more about that. But that is something that is going to happen for sure. I want us to both be stewards of our money. I want us to be able to have fun talking about it. And honestly, I don't always get it right. As we've discovered, we need that partnership. But I don't think it's a healthy part of a relationship that one person, even if they are more experienced or even if one person earns more money, I think it's got to be both.

[Julie Nguyen]

All right, well, thank you for taking us along with your rich life. And I loved hearing about everything from the spreadsheets to the splurges. And it's been an honor, just as a friend, to see what can happen in life when people have a real partnership, real communication, an inspiring vision, what you can build it's so much more than a rich relationship. It's a rich life. So thank you for leading by example. Thank you for having me, and thank you for sharing so many personal stories today.

[Ramit Sethi]

Yeah.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Thank you.

[Ramit Sethi]

Thanks, Julie.

[Cassandra Sethi]

Yeah, thank you.

[Ramit Sethi]

I want to give a big thanks to Julie Nguyen, who did an amazing job hosting and asking tough questions that Cassandra and I have never been asked or answered publicly. Of course, I want to give a huge thank you to Cassandra, not only for coming on the show, but more importantly, for working through money and creating a rich life together, which I love her for every day. You know, I started this podcast to hear how real couples talk about money from behind closed doors. But being in the hot seat, I can tell you it is way harder than it looks. After our conversation, I was physically exhausted. I took the rest of the day off. I just sat on the couch. I have a whole new respect for the guests who come on the show and share the intimate details of their lives. So thank you. And I also realized something I didn't expect. It feels good to talk about these things out loud. On a personal note, that was really hard for me. In my culture, we don't share these things publicly. That's one reason that it's so rare to see Indian people on reality tv. It's just not part of our culture. But I have learned through the work that I've been doing for over 20 years that talking about our challenges together with people who we trust, who want the best for us, can help us connect more deeply. Sometimes connect with our partner, sometimes connect with ourselves. I wanted to record this to show you that even the guy who wrote two books on money talks about this every day, doesn't have everything figured out. And that actually gives me a ton of compassion for the people who I work with. That's why when people come on here and 50% of them don't know how much they make, I get it. Because there are a lot of things in my life I don't know even today. And I know how hard this stuff is because I'm living it. So is Cassandra. And that makes me appreciate you even more. My hope is that by sharing our story, you can see that in order to live a rich life, not everything has to be perfect and dialed in. You got to acknowledge what's working, celebrate it, and then acknowledge what's not and work on it together. Thanks for watching. I appreciate you, and I want to thank you for letting us share our story. If you want my help with your specific money questions, you can apply to be on this [e-mail] apply or you can become a member of my Money Coaching program [e-mail] Moneycoaching in money coaching, you get access to monthly calls where I answer your questions directly on a private call. And I get the chance to go much deeper on the concepts of money that have made a huge change in my life. Plus plus you'll get access to a community of other people like you who will inspire you and push you to live your rich life. Check out money [e-mail] moneycoaching.